Who Fathered ISIS?

By 47 Comments 1,810 views

Trump has called Obama the “father of ISIS” and the media are salivating over apparent red meat. Especially when doubling down:

“Last night you said that the president was the founder of ISIS,” said radio host Hugh Hewitt in a Thursday interview with Trump, the Republican presidential nominee. “I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum. He lost the peace.”

“No, I meant that he’s the founder of ISIS,” Trump replied. “He was the most valuable player. I gave him the most valuable player award.”

Trump went on to say that voters approve of his controversial remark.

“No, it’s not a mistake,” he said on “The Hugh Hewitt Show.” “Everyone’s liking it. I think they’re liking it.

“I give him the most valuable player award,” Trump continued. “I mean, with his bad policies, that’s why ISIS came about. If he would have done things properly, you wouldn’t have had ISIS. Therefore, he was the founder of ISIS.”

Trump said that even though Obama is now fighting ISIS, he helped spawn the terrorist group.

“I don’t care,” he said. “He was the founder. The way he got out of Iraq, that was the founding of ISIS, OK?”

Trump also blamed Hillary Clinton, Obama’s first-term secretary of State and the Democratic presidential nominee.

“I gave the co-founder to Hillary,” Trump said.

Trump on Wednesday blamed Obama and Clinton for “founding” ISIS with their foreign policy decisions.

“ISIS is honoring President Obama,” he said during a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. “He’s the founder of ISIS. He founded ISIS.

“I would say the co-founder would be Crooked Hillary Clinton,” Trump added.

Trump criticized Obama’s decision to withdraw troops from Iraq, saying it gave ISIS a foothold.

“We should never have gotten out the way we got out. We unleashed terrible fury all over the Middle East.”

I guess he’s done with criticizing the 2003 decision to invade as a cause (for now) for ISIS (even though he could attack Hillary for giving Bush her AUMF vote).

Back in July he leveled the ISIS-creation story at Clinton, during an interview on 60 Minutes with Lesley Stahl:

“Hillary Clinton invented ISIS with her stupid policies,” Trump said in an interview that aired July 17. “She is responsible for ISIS.”

Trump has made this claim repeatedly. It’s wrong, and we’ll explain why.

The roots of ISIS

Trump was referring to Clinton’s actions related to Iraq, Libya and Syria, said Trump spokesman Stephen Miller, who referred us to a previous Trump speech on the topic.

The sources of ISIS are complex and interconnected, said John Pike, an expert on defense and director of GlobalSecurity.org, a website that provides information on defense.

“She may ‘share some of the blame’ but there is more than enough share to go around. She was in no sense the singular author of the thing,” Pike said.

For starters, the terrorist group’s roots pre-date Obama’s presidency and Clinton’s role as secretary of state.

It has gone by several names since 2004, when long-time Sunni extremist Abu Mus‘ab al-Zarqawi established al-Qaida in Iraq (AQI), also known as the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) and more recently the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), according to the National Counterterrorism Center.

I wouldn’t call President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Father and Co-Founder of ISIS. That distinction belongs to Zarqawi.

As I’ve written previously, Zarqawi’s group can be traced back before 2004 (AQI) to 1999 (Jamaat al-Tawhid wal-Jihad). This predates bush and Obama.

Jama’at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (1999–2004)

Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad
al-Rafidayn (2004–06)

Mujahideen Shura Council (2006)

Islamic State of Iraq (2006–13)

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (2013–14)
As “Islamic State” (June 2014–present)

The global and regional jihad movement(s) and al Qaeda network (different branches of “the same poisonous tree”) can find its inspiration traced back to sayyid Qutb, in the 40s.

AQI was effectively decimated by the time Bush left office at the end of 2008. The group re-emerged and gained power in Syria as it morphed into present day ISIS (Arab Spring, “red line”, etc.).

CIA director Brennan last December in a speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies:

“[ISIS] was, you know, pretty much decimated when US forces were there in Iraq. It had maybe 700-or-so adherents left. And then it grew quite a bit in the last several years, when it split then from al-Qaida in Syria, and set up its own organization.”

Read the CIA Director’s Thoughts on the Paris Attacks

Former Baath officials may have been given positions of leadership; but they are controlled by the global jihadis who are at the heart of ISIS ideology and direction.

Blame is given to Bush for signing SoFA.

Yes, SoFA was signed by Bush Dec 2008 (for which Obama took credit by claiming he ended the war in Iraq and is responsible for bringing the troops home- until 2014, when ISIS began pouring back into Iraq and taking over cities; then it was back to “Bush blame”).

In 2010, we did not support the Iraqi election results and kept Maliki in power. No, we didn’t “install” him. The Da’wa Party Conference elected him to that PM position, and the US- under Bush- agreed to it.

Two months before the SoFA was set to expire, Obama finally sent a team to negotiate a new deal (as was always intended and expected since the first signing). Argument is: 1. Iraqis wanted us out. 2. Iraqi Parliament would never grant troop immunity

On the first issue, here’s what Leon Panetta (and he’s not alone in this) said in his book, “Worthy Fights” page 392:

“Privately, the various leadership factions in Iraq all confided that they wanted some U.S. forces to remain as a bulwark against sectarian violence. But none were willing to take that position publicly,”

On point 2,

Maliki offered to sign an executive order granting troop immunity but the Obama Administration didn’t want it (State Dept lawyers insisted on going through the Iraqi Council of Representatives). This is the same protection our current forces Obama resent into Iraq are currently operating under.

There were other means around the Troop Immunity issue, such as putting the remaining troops on the embassy’s diplomatic rolls, which would automatically give them immunity.

A number of officials and analysts believe that the Obama White House did not push hard enough for a renegotiation (HIllary Clinton at the time advocated for a sizable troop presence in Iraq and like Panetta, believed in renegotiating a new SoFA). That they were more interested in fulfilling a campaign promise and wanted nothing better than to wash their hands of Iraq.

In 2013, Iraq began showing concerns of a rising Sunni militancy (in the absence of the U.S. flexing its influence over moderating a sectarian Maliki- plus in 2010 not supporting Iraq election results that saw Maliki lose- Sunnis were once again being alienated) and asked the White House for airstrikes and military aid (Oct 2013). Obama refused. In 2014, Iraq asked again (by this time, Obama already dismissed ISIS as a JV team in January) and was once again denied. Then by mid-June, the al Muthanna chemical weapons factory was seized by ISIS; and cities began to fall. Finally, president Obama sends some troops back into Iraq in advisory/training roles along with some airstrikes.

Iraq was fragile but stabilized in 2009 (re: Troop Surge which Senator Obama opposed and Sunni Awakening). AQI decimated there. Biden called Iraq possibly the Obama Administration’s “greatest achievement” in 2010.

Is the Obama administration responsible for directly funding/creating ISIS in Syria (via Syrian rebels opposing Assad)? I don’t think so. PolitiFact is PolitiWrong on some analysis, imo; but I think this is fair (from mid-June):

Trump could have made a different point against the Obama administration’s Syria policy.

Gartenstein-Ross has written about the perils of the administration’s attempts to identify and support potential allies from the motley ranks of the opposition. The effort, he wrote, ended up “benefiting the very jihadist groups the U.S. has been fighting for the past 15 years.”

Specifically, the policy of arming and promoting Sunni rebel groups fighting the Assad regime ended up indirectly helping the al Nusra Front, an al-Qaida affiliate in Syria, Landis said.

Al Nusra was “allied with many of the leaders that the U.S. did arm or assist,” Landis said. And other rebel groups were overrun by al Nusra, he added, even having to surrender their U.S.-provided arms to the al-Qaida affiliate on occasion.

The difference with what Trump said is that these developments were unintended — and unwanted — side effects of the United States’ policy, not a goal of it.

“I think our policy has been both foolish and tragic, but it doesn’t make the argument from Breitbart true,” Gartenstein-Ross said.

Anti-Americans and Arab conspiracists critical of U.S. foreign policy regardless of the “R” or the “D” believe we, the United States via the CIA and Mossad, created and funded ISIS, the Taliban, al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and orchestrated 9/11.

47 Responses to “Who Fathered ISIS?”

  1. 1

    john

    Iraq was stabilized in 2009 ?
    Every insurgent group was simply waiting for the SOFA that Bush had signed to begin the removal of US combat forces, first from all cities and then from the entire country.
    The Iraqis demanded that we leave, any politician that said otherwise would be unemployed immediately. Without the SOFA our military would have been subject to the laws of Iraq. Would YOU want them to remain without that protection ?
    The Iraqis had little love then or now for being an occupied country and they had their own internal conflicts to settle.
    ISIS has attracted thousands of foreign fighters to its ranks, only a handful of Americans have volunteered to go over and fight against them
    I haven’t seen any posters here willing to risk their own butts over there fighting ISIS
    All they really are willing to do is blame Obama for something they wouldn’t do themselves

  2. 2

    another vet

    We are at the two year mark since Obama finally took military action against ISIS. We have re-captured only one-fourth of the territory they’ve gained. In comparison, it took us less time to defeat and drive Rommel’s Afrika Corps from Northern Africa. It took us less time to go from the beaches of Normandy to Berlin. It took us less time to go from Kuwait to Northern Iraq. In that time, ISIS has expanded its global reach and has successfully launched terror attacks around the globe, including here. An inexcusable percentage of our pilots have been made to return without dropping their ordnance. Intel analysts at CENTCOM had their reports changed to reflect a more rosy picture of the war on ISIS. This is a joke.

    Word- I may have offered this before, I have IS Caliphate Revision by the Marine Corps University if you are interested. It’s an excellent presentation from 2015 that covers a lot of what you talk about and then some.

  3. 3

    mathman

    Success has many fathers.
    Failure has none.
    Zarquawi and the Muslim Brotherhood certainly started the theory rolling. But it was just a theory until Clinton let Bin Laden go.
    Bush II had Iraq under control until the peaceniks leaned on him too hard, and he tried to be compassionate.
    I shal quote from Somtow Sucharitkul: the Muzzies should be compassionately devived.
    What kind of military leader tells his opponent his date for withdrawl?
    And about Libya, now…who let those dogs out?

  4. 4

    Nanny G

    Sometimes, and it has happened more than once, I think Donald Trump mis-hears questions.
    Take this exchange:

    “Last night you said that the president was the founder of ISIS,” said radio host Hugh Hewitt in a Thursday interview with Trump, the Republican presidential nominee. “I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum. He lost the peace.”

    “No, I meant that he’s the founder of ISIS,” Trump replied……
    …..
    …..
    “I mean, with his bad policies, that’s why ISIS came about. If he would have done things properly, you wouldn’t have had ISIS. Therefore, he was the founder of ISIS.”

    …….
    …….
    The way he got out of Iraq, that was the founding of ISIS, OK?”

    In effect, Donald Trump was AGREEING with Hugh Hewitt while saying he disagreed with him.
    I don’t know why he does this.
    Maybe he just dislikes the term, “vacuum.”
    But it has happened before.
    Then the media, and even bloggers, go bat-$#!+ crazy parsing his words.
    Have fun.

  5. 5

    Bill

    @john:

    Every insurgent group was simply waiting for the SOFA that Bush had signed to begin the removal of US combat forces, first from all cities and then from the entire country.

    Gee… if someone like YOU was aware of this, why did the genius Harvard Law Review Editor (who never edited anything) miss it?

    Golly!

    ISIS grew 4400% under Obama
    http://www.aei.org/publication/brennan-admits-isis-was-decimated-under-bush-but-has-grown-under-obama-by-as-much-as-4400-percent/

  6. 6

    Spurwing Plover

    Obama has financed ISIS and has given them aid while releasing crinimals opening our borders and disarming law abiding americans by far Obama is the #1 worst presidents in american history and screw his peace prize giving it to Obama and Arafat was a outrage the peace prize commity all should be sent to Elba II

  7. 7

    Common Sense

    It was Obola who told America that Iraq is stable, Al Qaeda is on their heels, ISIS is a JV Team, ISIS is contained, and Benghazi was caused by a video. Hilldabeast fully agreed with all these lies!!

  8. 8

    Greg

    If we hadn’t invaded Iraq and created the dangerous power vacuum that our intelligence agencies warned us beforehand would inevitably follow, we wouldn’t now have ISIS to worry about. Syria might not have descended into civil war. Nor would we have removed Iran’s chief military rival, freeing them up to devote time and money to their nuclear program. It was a geopolitical screw-up of epic proportions, and an extraordinarily costly one. Don’t blame Obama. Obama didn’t do it.

  9. 9

    Bill

    @Greg: Well, if Clinton had handled al Qaeda and bin Laden instead of Monica, most likely none of that would have been necessary.

    But Bush was smart enough to understand the danger of the power vacuum and would stay until that threat was resolved. Obama, on the other hand not only reversed that in Iraq but creates a brand NEW power vacuum in Libya.

    If everyone feared the power vacuum in 2004, why did they forget about it in 2012?

  10. 10

    john

    So SADZ for our friend Bill to see his world crumbling all around him
    Bill please compare the total Americans killed by Alqaeda and ISIS
    Maybe then you will see what a JV team looks like
    Obama’s approval numbers are the highest in 4 years!
    2016 is looking very good for the Dems
    In the last 3 elections TX GOP vote has dropped steadily from 60% to 54%
    TX has gone from deep red to pale pink
    TX has lost consistently in its attempt to restrict voting
    What does Tx look like in the future to you ?

  11. 11

    john

    @Bill:
    Bush stayed for a long time, until his approval ratings were in the teens and he became the most despised POTUS in our history
    It was Bush that promised the Iraqis the USA would remove its troops first from the cities and then finally from all of Iraq
    Bill always does seem heavily focused on the sex part of politics
    Monica !!!! Bill when Bill Clinton was impeached his approval ratings were in the high 60s Americans still love him !!
    Maybe what you are really upset over Bill is that you aren’t getting any from hot 20 somethings

  12. 12

    Bill

    @john: As usual, good for the Democrats, terrible for the nation… and, in the case of ISIS, the world.

    But, at least Democrats are happy that their Alinsky/communist tactics work to perfection. Like the first two years of the Obama administration with absolute power, you simply don’t know how to govern.

    If you leftists could get a dollar for every lie you tell, we could pay the national debt.

  13. 13

    Ajay42302

    Trump said today that both Obama and Clinton founded the Civil War, created Katrina in hopes to take away everyone’s guns, and that if the 2nd Amendment folks don’t stop them now, it won’t be long until Vladimir Putin will try to make a military move into Ukraine. He said he could see this coming from his house.

  14. 15

    Common Sense

    @Greg: Greggie, Obola told America that Iraq was stable, Al Qaeda is on their heels, ISIS is s JV team, ISIS is contained, and Benghazi was caused by a video so for you to blame Bush after your messiah Obola told America this is as usual a huge lie!!

  15. 16

    Ajay42302

    @Bill: My understanding is that Trump has a clear and laid out plan on how to keep Putin out of Ukraine but can’t release any details because he’s being audited by the IRS.

    He is also going to to explain how he can abide by the Constitution while having Americans tried at Gitmo with a certain degree of sarcasm on a case by case basis.

  16. 18

    Nanny G

    Donald Trump asserts that Barack Obama founded ISIS.
    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Obama+founded+ISIS

    Six problems with the media going apoplectic about it?
    http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/12/6-problems-with-medias-hysterical-reaction-to-trumps-isis-comments/

    And, on top of that, the media created myths about Republicans over and over again:

    George W. Bush sent Hurricane Katrina to kill black people.
    https://parapoliticaljournal.com/2015/08/29/the-katrina-conspiracy-what-really-happened-10-years-ago-in-new-orleans/
    George W. Bush was responsible for the terror attacks on 9-11.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
    George W. Bush invaded Iraq to steal its oil.
    George H. W. Bush gave Saddam Hussein the go-ahead to invade Kuwait so he could invade it right back and take the oil.
    http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-consp.htm
    George H.W. Bush flew to Iran to delay the release of hostages and help Ronald Reagan win the presidency.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/22/books/the-case-for-a-conspiracy.html?pagewanted=all
    Ronald Reagan caused the AIDS epidemic.
    http://fumento.com/aids/heterodoxy.html
    Ronald Reagan deliberately spread crack into the Inner Cities.
    https://www.rt.com/usa/194992-cia-crack-scandal-webb/

  17. 20

    Greg

    From The New Republic, today: Congress still doesn’t know why CENTCOM cooked the books in ISIS intel:

    Motivation for cooking the books is unknown. There has been no link discovered that would lead back to the White House, although Republicans speculate that officers at CENTCOM tailored their reports to the White House narrative on the war against ISIS, which claimed we were making good progress. Why they would do this may be as simple as trying to curry favor.

    Of course republicans “speculate.” They’re in desperate need of a new scandal. I thought FOX News would be rolling out dozens of insider reports from reliable but unnamed sources by now. Apparently it’s all they can manage to deal with the Trump meltdown.

    From last November: Obama Orders Inquiry Into Intelligence on ISIS

    The Congressional report on CENTCOM It’s a .pdf document.

  18. 22

    Common Sense

    @Nanny G: Well well said. Libturds of course don’t live in reality so to provide facts and proof is like speaking martian to them. They would rather choose to believe that Benghazi was caused by a video, ISIS is contained even though they are just a JV team of farmers and doctors anyway, Al Qaeda is on their heels, and that with Obolacare you can keep your doctor and/or healthcare period!! They also believe hilldabeast even though she has been clearly caught in a lie regarding her emails!!

  19. 23

    Bill

    @Greg: Centcom cooked the data on the war on terror for the same reason the IRS attacked Obama’s opponents… it’s what he wanted. Only fraud and corruption can make a liberal appear to succeed. It’s the only reason Obama’s popularity is so high; the administration lies about all the measuring points and the corrupt media reinforces it instead of investigating it.

  20. 25

    Common Sense

    @Bill: I am in agreement. Does Obola even still recognize them as ISIS or just ISIL?? Either way the turmoil in the middle east is fully on this loser. He claimed it when he told us Iraq was stable!!

  21. 27

    Spurwing Plover

    Some stupid liberals espcialy in the media claim Obama killed Bin Laden What a load of horse poo these journalists are idiots and dumber then a sack full of rocks

  22. 28

    john

    @Redteam:
    So RedTeam what ever happened to the “20 point poll in your Gayafonia ” place that was assuring you of a tRump win ?
    And making disparaging remarks about the political party that is shredding the GOP just makes your team look that much weaker

  23. 29

    Bill

    @Greg:

    That’s the story you want to push, but there’s no evidence that supports it.

    Well, actually ALL the evidence supports it. Apparently, you don’t view reality as evidence.

  24. 30

    Bill

    @Greg: True, no one has stepped up and said, “Yeah, I did it and this is why…”

    But, after Fast and Furious, the Obamacare rollout, Obamacare implementation, Benghazi, the IRS, the VA, gun control, Occupy Wall Steet, Hillary’s emails, the Clinton Foundation, Black Lives Matter, etc., this is, at least, logical speculation and in the absence of any expectation of honest responses, it’s all we are likely to get.

  25. 31

    Greg

    @Bill, #29:

    I don’t categorize the right’s propaganda memes as evidence. There is absolutely NO evidence suggesting that CENTCOM altered intelligence reports at the behest of anyone in the Obama administration. NONE WHATSOEVER.

    The idea that an sane President would want to have his day brightened up with misleading intelligence reports is pretty much totally nuts. How would it serve the Obama administration to receive inaccurate intelligence appraisals that would make for less effective responses and decision making?

    Anyone knowingly doing such a thing would, at the very least, be committing a grave disservice to the President, to the nation, and to the military personnel whose lives can depend on sound decisions based on accurate information. Depending on their motives, it could be viewed as subtle sabotage of the efforts against ISIS. One would have to begin wondering about the lines separating personal ambition, stupidity, and outright treason.

  26. 32

    Redteam

    @john: Is English your native language? You still texting and driving those highly efficient diesels on taxpayer supported highways?

    makes your team look that much weaker

    Which team is that? Do you support that gay black vegetarian that RW does?

  27. 33

    john

    I drive a variety of equipment. Here in NYC most is less than 4 years old and leased. The economy is doing quite well here. If you were to look on Craigslist there are always jobs available for CDL license holders, you pretty much have your pick
    Hey there any new news on Trump’s 20+ poll lead in California?
    So how is your team doing anyway ? Still rooting for Trump ? So many in the GOP seem to have already given up.
    Here in NYC probably only about 1/2 my day is driving loading docks are always so busy that there are waits to get a spot.
    Not sure who you are referring to with RW, I must have missed that while on my boat

  28. 34

    Redteam

    @john:

    Not sure who you are referring to with RW, I must have missed that while on my boat

    Oh, I didn’t know CDL’s covered boats.

    Hey there any new news on Trump’s 20+ poll lead in California?

    I haven’t seen that lately, so thanks for letting me know Trump is still doing well there in Gayfornia. (Although just above you said you’re in NY, are you confused as to where you are?)

    Still rooting for Trump ?

    Did I miss something?

    So many in the GOP seem to have already given up.

    Those many thousands at his rallies will be surprised to hear that. On the other hand, that handful of folks at Hillary’s ‘rallies’ won’t be surprised by anything. They’re not expecting much.

  29. 36

    Bill

    @Greg: Like any good liberal, Obama does not listen to views he does not like, does not read intel reports that do not reinforce what he thinks
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/19/attkisson-obama-is-selectively-reading-intel-reports-video/#ixzz3s2wmKXLB

    NYT confirming the ISIS intelligence white-washing accusations
    http://moelane.com/2015/09/16/new-york-times-isis-centcom-democrats/

    Obama administration changing CIA assessments to make ISIS look less dangerous
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/09/exclusive-50-spies-say-isis-intelligence-was-cooked.html

    Obama used bin Laden intelligence to prove his point, then shelved it
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/07/sources-bin-laden-docs-conflict-with-obama-talk-al-qaeda-demise/

    Not only does the intel community directors do what they think Obama wants them to do (or he has explicitly told them how to present the intel) but he ignores what he gets that he does not feel comports with his own narrative. This is not new.

    The idea that an sane President would want to have his day brightened up with misleading intelligence reports is pretty much totally nuts. How would it serve the Obama administration to receive inaccurate intelligence appraisals that would make for less effective responses and decision making?

    Really? YOU of all people actually presented that in print? How about Benghazi, Greg? What was the benefit of disguising a forewarned terror attack by a group that has been “decimated” as a riot over a video, right before a national election? What is the benefit to manipulating intelligence reports to show that the anemic effort he is putting forth to fight ISIS is resulting in progress?

    This is exactly how liberals deal with the economy; they ignore the warning signs, sing a happy tune as they continue to grow the national debt to dangerous levels. Like the intelligence reports, Obama and the corrupt media report that the economy is growing and healthy when in fact it is on the brink of a horrific recession with growth at practically zero.

  30. 37

    Greg

    I don’t believe accusations from the right these days unless they present solid evidence that clearly backs their story up. All the more so when the claim in question is not only politically self-serving, but fundamentally illogical. What they’ve basically got is a delusional propaganda construct, that’s mostly based on sets of interrelated beliefs rather than facts that have been established with evidence. There’s often a belief that supporting evidence exists, but it’s seldom actually presented. If you try to chase it down to challenge it, you get talked in a big circle that eventually brings you back to the starting point.

    You should take a close look at this one-page graphic summary of Benghazi investigation activities. The part at the bottom is of particular interest.

  31. 39

    Bill

    @john: Oh… is this the guy that made the video that caused the attack? Or is this the guy that hid in plain sight, giving interviews and living large for two years that Obama FINALLY “arrested”?

    It appears that Hillary is on tape admitting that we (the US) created al Qaeda to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan… proving the West can never hope to come to terms with radical Islam for, even when we help them, because they will always stab us in the back.

    http://www.infowars.com/trump-is-right-heres-proof-hillary-obama-founded-isis/

    Now we see that Hillary and Obama financed and armed al Qaeda (and, essentially, ISIS) to fight Assad, a conflict we had NO interests in, NO reason to be involved in and, obviously, NO idea what to do.

  32. 40

    Redteam

    @john:

    Gee I must have missed that poll, could yu cite it for us? Thanks

    Sure, it was on the same poll with that great economy going on in New York that you mentioned above. Just check out your reference.

  33. 41

    Redteam

    @Greg:

    I don’t believe accusations from the right these days unless they present solid evidence that clearly backs their story up.

    You acquire those beliefs from associating with people you can’t trust. You know that Dimocrats are crooks and lying idiots and it makes you think others are the same way. You should get out into the world where some truthful people live.

  34. 42

    Redteam

    @Greg:

    You should take a close look at this one-page graphic summary of Benghazi investigation activities. The part at the bottom is of particular interest.

    You didn’t say how much it cost Clinton to have that Fairy tale put together. If you ever find one item on that sheet that even closely resembles the truth, you might want to point it out.

  35. 43

    Greg

    You acquire those beliefs from associating with people you can’t trust. You know that Dimocrats are crooks and lying idiots and it makes you think others are the same way.

    I don’t acquire beliefs. I was taught to acquire information and then decide what I believe about it for myself. That doesn’t guarantee that a person is always right. It does mean they’re awake and aware, and that their opinions are more likely to be their own.

  36. 45

    Greg

    I’m going to guess you never had any such classes to begin with, or slept through them. Learning how to think for oneself is the the entire point of a liberal arts education. The word “liberal” actually has something to do with that underlying outlook. Becoming broadly informed on a wide range of subjects and continuing to learn about them throughout one’s life is a central value. Ideally, you continue to learn until the day you die.

    Alternately, a person can be told what’s true, and taught to resist any challenges to it. Education then becomes indoctrination.

  37. 46

    Nanny G

    @Greg: The word “liberal” actually has something to do with that underlying outlook. Becoming broadly informed on a wide range of subjects and continuing to learn about them throughout one’s life is a central value.

    Do you miss what used to take place in higher education?
    A liberal education.
    Nowadays the ”special snowflakes” demand ”safe spaces” if there’s even a chance the professor might force them to consider an opinion with which they disagree!
    Colleges and universities recently have become the most ILLIBERAL places in the country.
    The students can’t even stand so see chalk writing of opinions they don’t personally hold!

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