In light of media criticism over Donald Trump (does he still embrace birtherism?) not setting the record straight today when he was presented with the opportunity to do so, I will make the argument here at FA for the sake of the Party; and for the sake of the honest truth.
The fact of the matter is (and this isn’t my opinion, but grounded fact and reality) this: President Obama is not an open, practicing Muslim; nor is he a closet, stealth Muslim. He is a self-professed, self-identified Christian (although I don’t believe he’s particularly religious/devout)
As a progressive liberal, multiculturalist Democrat, if President Obama were Muslim, he’d be more than happy and willing to embrace that identity, much like Representatives Keith Ellison and André Carson. He’d not only be the first “black” (or biracial) U.S. President, but also have the glass-ceiling breaking distinction of being known as the first religiously Muslim U.S. president.
Apparently, nearly a third of Americans believe President Obama is a Muslim and that he was not born here in the U.S. An astonishing 43% of Republicans believe him to be a Muslim.
Even if President Obama were a Muslim, so what? Yes: SO WHAT?
There are a great many things President Obama deserves to be criticized over. The charge of being Muslim is not one of them. Conservatives who embrace this claim really should look long and hard at themselves in the mirror and make sure it isn’t a religious or racial bigot that is staring back at them. To embrace this insane conspiracy only helps President Obama. It doesn’t hurt him. It does hurt the conservative cause. Because it gives credence and credibility to the belief that conservatives are bigoted conspiratorial nutjobs whose hatred goes beyond the political.
Here are just some of the common “evidence” used to tout President Obama’s Muslim credentials:
1. Upbringing
President Obama’s biological father was a Muslim; but was a Muslim-turned-atheist. He did not grow up knowing his father, who abandoned him when he was a baby.
His stepfather Lolo Soetoro was a nominal Muslim, described as someone who “was much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim, according to former friends and neighbors.”:
Soetoro, who died in 1987, was hardly the image of a pious Muslim, friends and family members say.
His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. “He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family,” Trisulo recalled.
In his autobiography, Obama said Soetoro followed the same kind of Islam as many Indonesians, “a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths,” the kind of Islam that meant a man could absorb the powers of the animals he ate, such as tigers and snakes.
I have a friend who lives and works in Indonesia. He converted to Islam on account of his wife. He does not recognize any of the conservative stereotypes of what a Muslim is. Was completely unfamiliar with the term and concept “taqqiyah” (a Shia tradition, and wildly distorted by Islamophobes in how it is applied); and has a Christmas tree in his home every year.
In 1967, Barack Obama became “Barry Soetoro” when he and his mother moved to Jakarta. He was 6 years old. While there, he indeed studied at a religious school, praying up to 4 times a day: It was the Santo Fransiskus Asisi (St. Francis of Assisi) Catholic School, from 1st through part of 3rd grade. He then spent the rest of 3rd and up through 4th grade at a public school- the Besuki School (not an Islamic madrassa), where he was exposed to Islam. That school was
so progressive that teachers wore miniskirts and all students were encouraged to celebrate Christmas.
Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades.
At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said Darmawan, Obama’s former teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.
The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia, also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.
A recent description of the public Elementary School Menteng No. 1 and its students in this century is anything but that of a strict, fundamentalist Islamic madrassa:
The girls wore uniforms of knee-length skirts and no head scarves. Boys and girls shoved each other on the playground. Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard.
“The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity,” said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. “And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It’s always been like that. We are a public school. We have always been a public school.”
When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.
At holidays, the school made a practice of teaching students about different religions. Students from all religions celebrated Christmas with a Christmas tree and carols. They celebrated the Islamic holiday of Eid al-Adhaby handing out a sacrificed goat to the neighborhood’s needy.
Photographs from the time show teachers in sleeveless dresses. The only woman who wore a head scarf was the Islamic religion teacher.
“I was really trendy, for example, no sleeves, and miniskirts,” recalled Tine Hahiyari, 78, a Protestant who was the school’s headmaster from 1972 to1989. “When I taught sports, I wore shorts.”
This was and still remains a public school, open to all faiths.
So, no: Barry Soetoro was not indoctrinated in radical Islamic theology as a young boy. Next.
2. In his book, “Audacity of Hope”, comes this popular gotcha: “I will stand with the MUSLIMS should the political winds shift in an ugly direction”
Aye Chihuahua #12 covered this well in a response to a commenter:
you need to understand and apply context to the comment in order to understand what BO was saying when he said it.
Here is the complete quote:
“[T]hey need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
Basically, the comment was made in the context of a post 9/11 America when sentiment in this country was very negative toward people from the Middle East in general, Muslims specifically.
Obama was making it clear that if things turned ugly, and there were murmurings of internment camps and such in late 2001, that he would stand with whoever was the target of the roundup, and rightly so.
Finally, even if Obama was speaking of defending Muslims from some renewed internment or oppression effort in this country, would that be the wrong thing to do? I think not. I would stand with him in that effort.
There is absolutely nothing objectionable in either what he said or what he meant by the statement.
This is an ugly Internet rumor that has been spread and allowed to grow for a long time. Unfortunately, there are very few sources which tell the accurate words of the quote and the context in which it was made.
As I’ve said to you several times already, there is a multitude of things, true and accurate things, which a person can use to criticize BO.
There is absolutely no reason, and no excuse, for twisting context or just plain making things up.
You know as well as anyone how I feel about BO but we must, without exception, hold ourselves to a high standard when it comes to criticizing him lest we come off as a group of racist or bigoted tinfoil hat wearing wackos living on the far edges of the right wing.
Obama did not say he would side with “the Muslims,” which could easily be read as meaning he would side with the world’s Muslim population even if it meant working outside the best interests of the United States. He said he would side with “them,” referring back to his mention of immigrant communities and specifically to “Arab and Pakistani Americans.” Furthermore, he was speaking of an “ugly direction” like the mass internment of Japanese Americans.
For a world leader who is supposedly “siding with the Muslims”, he sure isn’t doing a great job of defending Muslims being slaughtered in Iraq and Syria. But he has perpetuated and expanded upon Drone strikes against Islamic terrorists- a program that began under President Bush. And he is credited with nailing OBL on his watch.
Expansion of ISIS and Islamic terror is not due to his aligning with them. It’s due to presidential incompetence.
3. President Obama cites from the Quran and invites Muslims to the White House.
The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics; a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam … [Islam’s] teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah …The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself.
“The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind.”
The President’s message includes brief quotes from the Koran, and refers to Islam as a religion that values charity, mercy and peace.
“Islam is peace. These terrorists don”t represent peace, they represent evil and war.”
These are just some of the pro-Islam statements made by our president. President Bush, who also has the distinction of having hosted the first iftar– traditional Ramadan dinner in the White House.
4. “The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam.”
Essentially, this quote is cited as an example charging President Obama as a defender of Islam. Sure, okay. I can buy this reasoning. But his defense of Islam is not a defense of radical, political Islam; nor evidence of his “Muslim faith”. His defense, like that of his predecessor #43, is that of a world leader who seeks to marginalize the global jihad movement and not widen the war- something OBL and Zawahiri failed to do with most Muslims. And it is the kind of defense that is common and typical amongst the pc-laden, diversity-crowd/multiculturalist left.
5. President Obama’s Freudian slip: “My Muslim faith”
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M[/youtube]
Here’s a fuller context:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVn59TC2QqM[/youtube]
I’d say his slip up is due to putting his frame-of-mind in the perspective of the McCain/conservative camp- the ones who perceived him to be a Muslim.
6. Obama’s one ring to rule them all! One ring to find them. One ring to bring them all; and in the darkness bind them!
As a student at Harvard Law School, then-bachelor Barack Obama’s practice of wearing a gold band on his wedding-ring finger puzzled his colleagues.
Now, newly published photographs of Obama from the 1980s show that the ring Obama wore on his wedding-ring finger as an unmarried student is the same ring Michelle Robinson put on his finger at the couple’s wedding ceremony in 1992.
Moreover, according to Arabic-language and Islamic experts, the ring Obama has been wearing for more than 30 years is adorned with the first part of the Islamic declaration of faith, the Shahada: “There is no god except Allah.”
Jerome Corsi is a conspiracy nut.
Quick explanation: Snopes:
This claim about Barack Obama’s ring (shown in more detail here) looks to be an artifact of someone who has never actually seen the ring in question trying mightily to find a hidden message where none exists, however. All of the images used to illustrate the claim are either blurry, low-resolution close-ups or shots taken from too distant a perspective to clearly show the details of the gold band. Isolating the ring from a much higher-resolution photograph of President Obama’s hand taken by photographer Miguel Villagran during a 5 June 2009 news conference in Dresden, Germany, shows the ring to bear what looks like nothing more than a plain loop-like pattern, with the top section matching the bottom:
7. Obama bows to Saudi Prince
Yes, and Bush #43 kisses them.
The fact is, as embarrassed as many Americans might feel by the subservience of the act, it’s not exclusive to Saudi royalty:
Is there any evidence of President Obama facing Mecca on a prayer rug 5 times a day? We know he drinks beer. Is clean-shaven, eats bacon, loves music and dance, does occasionally attend church, drones radical Islamist terrorists, is a liberal/socialist-leaning Democrat, and currently champions gay marriage.
So how exactly is it that so many conservatives keep calling him a Muslim? And applies that label in a slanderous, bigoted manner?
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
@Redteam:
I’m specifying since Muslims around the world have different “traditional” dress.
Well, rt, the point of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing was?
Exactly.
I provided a link earlier as to why he was wearing it.
Mata, if memory serves, did a blogspot regarding al Qaeda ties to Somalia and the Black Hawk incident.
Well, when I was around 8 years old I had to wear a kimono to my uncle’s traditional Japanese wedding in Japan.
Oh, c’mon…you know what I mean. 😉
I’ve seen plenty of Muslims wear western clothing and Muslim women who do not “cover up”.
Noted. My apologies for my rudeness.
Oh, I care. Gave the birthers (sorry, not meaning it as an insult in this context where it applies to you but just as a means to identify those who think those like Obama do not qualify as “natural born citizens”) a listen and their say. Then I moved on. I don’t agree with their research and claims.
OK. I’m a bad, bad boy. I led you on. He didn’t say this. He did say that he was Jewish “in his soul”. I believe he was joking.
My point here is, if he had said it under the same conditions as when he said he was Jewish “in his soul”, the conspiracists who believe Obama to be Muslim would be in a tizzy. And they would fail or ignore the context for the sake of confirmation bias.
@another vet:
Thanks for “getting it”.
@Skook: Follow up Bernie is a Socialist not a Communist
Pls clarify “degenerate” accusation.
I realize your politics are right of Attila The Hun but I assure you again those on the left identifying as Liberals will not be voting for The Donald.
@Wordsmith:
And which religion is represented by a kimono?
And which religion is represented by ‘western wear’ and ‘do not cover up’?
Yeah. And which religion is this?
(It was either a photo session at the Asian Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Hanoi, circa 2006, or Casual Friday at the Queen’s Court on the planet Munimula. I forget which.)
@Wordsmith:
As I said, I consider a birther to be a Clinton follower that is trying to disqualify Obama from running against Hillary. The fact that strategy failed is no excuse for the Obamaites to attempt to affix it to others.
I’m certainly not trying to convince you or anyone else about whether Obama is or is not a natural born citizen because you, as others, claim you have looked into it and don’t agree. So my statement is; that attempted education fails in many cases because the person does not seek to be educated or does not like the answer they find.
@Greg: Of course you realize it is not religious garb. Right?
Of course it is. It’s formal Satanic Wizards’ attire. On Casual Fridays the matching pointy hats with the gold stars and crescent moons are optional.
@Greg: Link me to that outfit on a satanic site where someone is wearing that same pattern. That link you gave doesn’t have it.
@rich wheeler:
I’m gonna guess you were laughing when you wrote that.
The difference between communism and socialism is about the same as whether 10 cents are as a dime or two nickels. The real difference is that communism is the political system that operates a socialist economic system.
@rich wheeler:
I believe you have made it clear that you’re not planning to vote for Trump. So that puts a Lib by your name. Correct.
@rich wheeler: “Right of Attila the Hun.” Now that’s rich, I am studying the raiders of the East, but I haven’t started on Attila. They were some rough boys.
The degenerate term refers to someone who is dishonest and corrupt and refuses to acknowledge the flaw. I realize politicians on the right are held to different standards and are expected to resign when their corruption and lack of integrity catches up with them and since honesty and integrity are considered to be quaint political euphemisms on the Left and of little practical value.
A more common interpretation of “degenerate” might be more appropriate to the husband of Hillary. In that definition, the idea of sexual perversity is emphasized and we don’t need to cut those onions again, but Hillary has emphasized Attila’s definition of degenerate. A corrupt individual with no hope of redemption.
RT did a good job of defining the S & C relationship, but I prefer Stalin’s definition.
Calling everything from old age pension to welfare a form of Socialism helped infiltrate the term into our vocabulary and while I have never advocated throwing grandma off the bridge or letting desperate people starve, I resist encroaching Marxism.
Oh, by the way, you neglected to respond to a number of my questions, except to emphasize that Democrats would never vote for Trump. A month ago, I would have agreed with you, but now, I think you need to increase your circle of friends. I work for hundreds of Democrats, mainly women who sometimes talk for hours while I work. Right now, politics is one of the popular subjects and they are not impressed with Obama’s accomplishments.
@Skookum:Thank you for your response. Did you also believe Dem. women would vote for Mac when he picked Palin as his running mate?
I am a Dem. Precinct Captain here in San Clemente as I was in 08 and 2012. As the Primary approaches I’ll be calling registered Dems–I’ll let you know what I hear regarding Trump–So far I have not heard a single Dem say they would vote for Trump.
@Rich Wheeler:
So you honestly think when a Dim precinct captain calls a Dim and asks who he’s voting for, that he’s going to say Trump? What, do you think he’s ‘Dim’ or something?
@Redteam: Glad you agree. They almost certainly will not say they are voting for Trump. Why would they?
BTW I got no problem being called a Lib. I’ve been called a lot worse by FA Alinskyites(sic) like yourself. lol
@Rich Wheeler: Because then they would truly be ‘dim’. It it usually not a good idea to tell your playmates they all stink.
@Redteam: EXACTLY–BTW –Do you remember supporting Walker as little as 3 months ago? How did that work out?
Donald’s candidacy will follow a similar path.
@Rich Wheeler: As an active member of the Party, will you feel conflicted having to not only support HRC but having to get out the votes for her should she get the nomination for your party?
@another vet: Let me clarify–I was Precinct Captain for BHO—I will not vote for or make any calls on behalf of HRC.
Webb 2016
@Redteam: Can you clarify the point you’re trying to make in your comment #104 because you have me in a labyrinth. Toss me a life-line and spin me a yarn.
@Rich Wheeler:
Rich, your memory seems to be deserting you. I’ve never supported Walker for anything but governor of Wisconsin. How did that work out? Very well, my recollection is that he has won election 3 times in last 4 years or so.
@Wordsmith: in 104? We had been discussing people wearing religious garb, and you mentioned a kimono, western wear and ‘not cover up’. My question was simply asking what that had to do with religious wear. Most women don’t ‘cover up’ and I don’t think western is a ‘religion’ and I also don’t think wearing a kimono has a religious connotation.
@Rich Wheeler: 119
Humorous situation developing. Rich seems to think that if we are a ‘Conservative” that we can’t back Trump, as if we have no choice in that, while at the same time thinking that as a Liberal he is gonna have a choice as to whether or not he backs Shrillary.
Watch for more signs of humor ratcheting up.
@Redteam: Thank you for clarifying.
I’m too bogged on time to scroll back through the comments; but I think this started because of your perception on Obama dressed in “Islamic garb”/turban and I think you questioned why I referred to “Somali garbs”. Point I’ve been trying to make since is in questioning you on what constitutes “Islamic clothing”? Because my understanding of the photos first circulated by the Clinton camp of Obama in that getup and portraying this as proof of his “Muslimness”is that the clothing in question he was wearing is local. He was in Kenya and as a guest of a sheikh, humored the man by putting on the local, traditional dress.
Of his 2006 Kenyan trip, when he visited Wajir and was dressed up as a “Somali elder”:
The clothing Obama wore should be more properly described as local, tribal Somali clothing than Islamic.
Anyone pushing those photos and that visit as proof of Obama being Islamic has got some serious affliction with ODS.
@Wordsmith:
Do you know someone that is? But a couple of interesting points. Obama was visiting Kenya, the home of his father, why would he be presented with a Somali outfit? Do you consider that there is a ‘difference’ between a Somali and a Muslim? What percentage of folks in Somalia, wearing turbans, would you say are not Muslims? Would you say it would be about the same percentage as the number of folks living in Israel wearing Yarmulke’s that are not Jewish?
Why do you and others seem to presume that it is a ‘bad thing’ if Obama is identified as Muslim? Is Muslim a ‘bad thing’? Obama might consider it an honor. Maybe on a par with ‘openly gay’?
@Redteam: Good grief! Go back and carefully read my comments if you’re going to reply to them. Click on links provided. Your answers are all there. Or are you trolling? Are you purposely being obtuse? Not meaning to be disrespectful, but c’mon! You’re asking questions where if you read my prior responses or are not comprehension-challenged, even a 5th grader would move on to the next page and not get stuck.
Seriously, are you retired? Because I’m not. And this pointless running in circles is an exercise in neverending nonsense. I need some brick-wall relief.
Sorry, rt. I’ve got work to get back to.
@Redteam: “if we are a Conservative we can’t back Trump” Did I say that?–you can back Joe The Plumber if you want.—neither will be Prez.
Likewise I can back anyone I want—might even be Rubio..
BTW are you in adherence with Article 6 of our Constitution?
Word –you got the patience of a Saint—-stay strong.
@Wordsmith:
Now you getting the frustration feeling I get trying to figure out why someone that everyone thinks is conservative is carrying Obama’s water for him. It’s not up to you to sell conservatives on how great a president and human being Obama is. If he wants people to have that impression maybe he should start practicing a little of it.
Suffice to say,, I’ve read every comment you’ve made on this thread and have looked at every link. The fact that you don’t like the questions that naturally occur is not so much the problem, I suspect, as it is the answer that you find yourself having to give to defend your comment.
I’m going to make the assumption that you can determine from the grammar and sentence structure that I use, that’s I’m not comprehension challenged. I certainly don’t think that of you and would not make that claim. Being wrong is not the same as not understanding the situation.
Part of that can be attributed to the fact that after making many of the Obama support statements on this thread you go directly on to a different thread and make some of the same statements. So if you read my response twice, it was only once to each repeated statement.
Yes, I’m retired.
@Rich Wheeler: Well at least then you won’t be in the position of the lefty I referenced in #82. He hates blacks, Mexicans, the military, Republicans, Catholics, and especially the Jews. He must have been very conflicted when he voted for Obama twice. But he is a socialist too even though he won’t admit it, so I guess ideology helps.
Keep on dreaming about Webb. My first two choices have dropped out already and he stands less of a chance than they did even though he is by far the best your side has to offer.
@Rich Wheeler:
Did you? Can’t you read what you wrote? Didn’t I warn you it was a humorous situation developing.
And no, you can not, as a Dim precinct captain, support Rubio. Surely you wouldn’t make that claim. No, wait, actually you did.
Article 6? Why would you ask, is there some parts of the Constitution that a former US Marine does not support? I support all of it.
@Redteam: What’s funny is you telling me who I can support for Prez. Good luck with that Alinsky.
Damn if Word didn’t make you look the fool. Usually you do that all by yourself.
@another vet: 82
Sounds like your ‘run of the mill’ leftie.
@Rich Wheeler:
Don’t your lips get tired?
It’s not my fault if he can’t follow his duplicate posting.
What’s even funnier is you thinking you can support Rubio while serving as a Dim precinct captain.
@Redteam: Big time. Everything he says is easily proven wrong but he keeps on saying it. He is also a hypocrite. Blamed Bush for the $300 billion dollar deficits but has no problem with the trillion dollar plus ones run up by Obama. Hated Powell when he was a Republican but now claims he always liked him now that he is a Democrat. That is why I avoid talking politics to him as much as possible.
@Redteam: As clarified with AV I was a precinct captain for BHO. I will perform that role and more if Jim Webb asks me to do so.
If Webb’s run ends I’ll seriously consider supporting Marco Rubio for Prez–I look forward to the day when he goes one on one against Trump–lights out for Donald.
My lips are fine—how’s your tongue?
@Rich Wheeler: I will concede that Rubio is certainly not a conservative, so your enthusiasm doesn’t surprise me, at some point the ‘in crowd’ of the crook Hillary, the socialist Bernie, and the dumbass Biden has to get to be too much even for the fully indoctrinated liberals socialists and they have to start looking outside the box. You do know that Rubio is a natural born citizen of Cuba, right?
Those Dims out there are going to be surprised to have one of their team campaigning for a Republican. (Actually I’m going on the record that’ll never happen, you’ll go with the Hill before that happens) Leopards still can’t change their spots. Be sure to break that suction occasionally.
@Redteam: Rubio is a citizen of the U.S and eligible to run for Prez. except in the strange minds of conspiracy theorists like yourself.Be sure to brush thoroughly before bedtime.
@Redteam:
Maybe you’d find the answer if you challenged the basic premise of your logical fallacy?
I’m selling how great he is and carrying his water simply because I say he’s not a Muslim? This promotes him as a great president and human being how?
Because I consider conservatives who assert that he is a muslim makes conservatives look foolish somehow equates to selling to conservatives how great this president is?
He does. To his supporters. He thinks he’s doing a wonderful job.
I find it hard to believe you’ve read carefully. If you have, then that’s what prompts my questioning of your comprehension skills. I find it hard to believe you clicked on links provided because you asked about why he would wear Islamic/Somali garbs when the answer is right there in the link I provided.
I know you are educated and are not grammar-challenged. But I just find that there’s something in your thinking process that prevents you from accurately understanding those you disagree with. Not agreement with them; just basic understanding in what the actual argument is, unfiltered through a distorting sieve pan .
Thank you. I apologize for where I’ve been disrespectful toward you. It’s just frustrating not to be understood (I don’t expect agreement) and then to have what I’m saying distorted or filtered and morphed into things I’m not saying.
Nope. That’s not the problem. The running circles is happening in this thread where the ball is stuck on the same yardage. I don’t care which direction the ball is moved, just so long as it is moved.
Hope you are enjoying your retirement. I somewhat envy you and sometimes wish I could just retire. What else do you enjoy doing these days?
@rich wheeler: strange that you would argue if someone is born of an American mother and father in cuba he is still a natural born citizen, but Rubio was born of a cuban mother and father in the US so he’s an American citizen. Weird people.
@Wordsmith:
Even Lucifer can provide justification for what he does. Every child that breaks a rule at school can give perfectly good reasons why they broke the rule. Giving a ‘good reason’ for wearing Muslim garb is perfectly reasonable for someone looking for justification. I’ll bet you can even provide a perfectly good reason for Obama turning OBL’s body guard loose from Gitmo.
believe it or not, if I were defending the travesty of an occupant of the White such as this total catastrophe that is presently there, I would expect you to be questoning my thinking. I suppose you even agree with Rich that Rubio is a natural born US citizen, though according to every reading of any honest legal mind, there is no way. It was accepted, back before Obama ran, as to what a natural born citizen is, but now there are no rules. And you would have a problem with ‘my thinking’ on that? Just because “I want” something does not suddenly make it natural or legal if it were not before I wanted it. Usually I understand the argument too well and understand when there is a smoke making machine in operation. There is nothing you have said that I misunderstood. Because you don’t like the response, perhaps you should be looking at the position.
way too much, I don’t understand why or how some of these discussions take the direction they do.
It will always baffle me how the USA elected an ineligible person to the office and no one gives a damn.
@Redteam: Rubio born in the U.S in 1971 is a natural born citizen until the Supreme Court rules otherwise. That won’t be happening anytime soon.
You wanna point out exactly where Word is defending Obama’s performance as POTUS? He is simply contending BHO is not a Muslim and to so argue is counter productive.
Don’t forget to floss.
@Rich Wheeler:
Rubio has his useful idiots defending him, I knew you would be one of the first to jump on board.. It amazes me how many people just don’t give a damn about who or what is elected in this country. I have no idea why so many don’t care. Once it is gone forever, then they will say ‘how could we let this happen?’ Natural born was never questioned until the people behind Obama decided to push him and to not let the cases be held in court. Not one court has ruled on whether Obama is a natural born citizen, and never will.
Obama has claimed repeatedly, up until about 07, that he was born in Kenya. It all changed when someone decided to run him for pres.
@Redteam: The idiots are a few clowns like you.
Nobody else seems to be complaining about Rubio ,Cruz or Obama’s legitimacy.
Well maybe your new hero—The Duck. Poor guy won’t play any more with those awful people at Fox.
@Rich Wheeler:
Is this an inside joke? who is ‘the Duck’? Surely you’re not going to admit to reverting to the first grade playground.
Is this the same person that thinks it’s wrong to label people? Such as ‘muslims’?
I warned Word to be sure to use his turn signals when you are near.
But you will note that Fox has not a single program that doesn’t mention Trump.
@Rich Wheeler:
something that even BHO doesn’t claim. I can show you more than one clip where he admits being a muslim, I can show you none where he denies being a muslim. All the denial is from Republicans/conservatives. (you don’t count, because you don’t know the difference)
@Redteam:
This again is the kind of statement from you that makes me not believe you when you claim you read carefully what I write; and click on links.
In one of my links I provided you with, it’s not Obama that’s rationalizing why he wore the dress of a Somali elder; it’s the sheikh who gave it to him to wear.
And it’s not Obama “looking for justification”. There’s no reason for him to defend a perfectly reasonable act- something other statesmen, politicians, foreign dignitaries do quite commonly. What’s off the wall is the criticism for it and a bizarre conspiratorial mindset that twists a rationale for why such criticism is not misguided.
Same as Bush.
You still fail to understand my positioning. For the umpteenth time, it’s not about defending a president I detest; it’s about distancing myself from those conservatives who are pushing falsehoods; and who I think are damaging the conservative brand. It’s about embracing reality and not some deranged partisan worldview based upon wishful fancy and flight.
You, sir, are on the fringe. You should embrace the birther monniker since you are in alignment with their ideas and push it forth with pride. Truthers feel the same way about why they believe what they believe. Democrats likewise feel that they are the ones who support the Constitution and that Republicans disregard it. Apparently all the “Legal minds” who would disagree with you must be doing so because they are not “honest”.
No, seriously, sir: There is a short circuit in your thinking process that can’t grasp the arguments I’ve put forth. And so in order for you to make sense of it, your partisan brain has to distort and contort the meaning, setting up a strawman that you can then go ahead and blow down.
Maybe “no one gives a damn” for the same reasons that “no one gives a damn” each time Truthers scream about Building 7.
@Wordsmith:
And what would that perfectly good reason be?
“about distancing myself from those conservatives who are pushing falsehoods” who would that be? You certainly can’t point to any falsehood from me and I seem to be the one you are having problems framing questions of to get the answers you desire. Just because you don’t like my answer doesn’t mean that the answer is incorrect. I think a more effective strategy might be to point out the falsehoods of the administration rather than to attribute bad intentions solely to conservatives. It certainly is not a falsehood to say that Obama has said he is a muslim, or to say that he has said he was born in Kenya.
As you well know, the first requirement of a ‘birther’ is to be a Hillary supporter. I can find no reason to align myself with her. I’ll just go with the label ‘constitutionalist’.
No, they are the victim of poor education or poor indoctrination. There has to be a meaning of the term ‘natural born’ or they would not have used those particular qualifiers. As I think you know, the use of words and terms in the Constitution are for a reason. Clearly there are more than one type of citizen in the US or there would only have been the use of one single term. So why was that accepted back before Obama ran but now it’s open door? Because it serves a purpose. I state the truth, whether you or anyone choose to remain ignorant of the truth is up to you.
I’m sorry you fail to find the words you are looking for to express your thoughts. As far as setting up ‘strawman’, just what category would you put your ‘Christian/Muslim” argument? He clearly has stated that his faith is Muslim, but you choose to make an argument, which he, himself doesn’t make, that he is not. I don’t believe you can find him saying he ‘is not a Muslim’. If it were important to him, wouldn’t he make it clear? No, his strategy is to let others carry his water. You won’t find dimocrats being apologists for other dimocrats, but you will find conservatives being apologists for conservatives and for dimocrats.
@Wordsmith: missed this one.
I don’t hear anyone talking about building 7. I have no interest in it.
I’m pretty sure Building 7 is not mentioned in the constitution, but if you say it is, I’ll let it pass.
on the other hand, I am sure natural born citizen is mentioned and I do care.
Per “retire05”, Comment #5:
“We are the greatest, freest nation in the history of mankind and our president needs to act like it.”
Greatest, freest nation IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND? Get real. During its relatively VERY short history, your “great”, “free” nation has already:
• Perpetrated the genocide of the indigenous people who populated this continent long, long before Europeans showed up;
• Wholeheartedly engaged in the capture, trafficking, sale, slavery, segregation and now mass-incarceration of people of African descent;
• Illegally removed innocent Japanese-American citizens from their homes and shuttled them off to internment camps
• Did not—and though progress has been made—still does not endow women with the same rights and value as men (salary inequality, government control of women’s bodies, no mandatory paid maternity leave)
• Allows government to interfere in the private lives of non-heterosexual citizens
• Has supported the insinuation of a devolved form of capitalism to into medicine and healthcare in not providing adequate, quality, free healthcare to ALL citizens
• Does not provide adequate, quality, free education to all citizens
The values of freedom, justice and equality embodied in the documents that form the foundation of our nation’s alleged values and laws are indeed “great”. However, upholding the rights espoused in them, solely on behalf of white Christians of privilege, is antithetical to what thoughtful, fair-minded, open-minded, open-hearted Americans believe to be the purport of these documents. To us, such selective exclusion, not to mention your absurd broad-brush statement, is no different from demonizing all Muslims as perpetrators of terror, or supporting—even tolerating—behavior that assumes all young black men to be potential or actual criminals, or calling Mexican immigrants “rapists”, or assuming rape victims “asked for it”. It’s ignorant bias, and it’s un-Christian.
@S Turnet: Perhaps a place where left-wing fantastic misrepresentations of facts and history is better appreciated would better suit you, Turnet (or is it Tourett, as in syndrome, as in blurting out whatever obscenity comes to mind). Maybe Syria. Or Somalia.
The United States has not been perfect, but when led by able leaders, it is the best the world has ever seen and is likely ever TO see.