I lit up my smart phone this morning and opened the link to Drudge and blurted out “Oh no, oh no, oh no.” As the facts of the horrible church shooting unfold, I hear the echoes of the Sandy Hook mass murder. Sandy Hook is not far from where I live and a good number of people we know were connected to it. Sadly, history repeats because someone failed to learn from it.
Adam Lanza was mentally ill. Although it has not been disclosed, you can bet your life he was on SSRI medications. The refusal to disclose is your proof. Lanza was allowed free access to weapons despite his condition.
Deja vu.
Dylann Storm Roof has been identified as the suspect in the killing of nine black people in Charleston, SC. Let’s tick off the warning signs and things done wrong.
1. Criminal past
He had a arrest record for drugs and trespassing.
2. Racism
He was a racist
The patches are of white-rule Rhodesia and apartheid-era South Africa
3. Allowed free access to weapons
Despite his overt racism and his criminal past, his father bought him a gun for his 21st birthday.
The last shoe to drop will be any medications Roof was taking for a mental illness. Roof clearly is mentally ill. I have previously argued against the mentally ill having access to weapons but that’s a slippery potential slope in this Obama fascist state. It’s no stretch to imagine Obama one way or the other finding all legal gun owners mentally impaired by Executive Order.
It is my opinion that the Roof’s father ought to be tried as an accessory to murder. Dylan Roof was wearing the signs that screamed “Don’t give me a weapon” and dad ignored them. Or perhaps, did he encourage them? I’d never in a million years allow my son(s) to wear those badges but I never had to worry about it either.
There is considerably more to be learned here, but I will wager that the more is disclosed, the more similar Dylann Roof becomes to Adam Lanza. And as in Sandy Hook this won’t be about guns- it will be about mental illness.
Roof’s uncle described Roof as ‘quiet, soft spoken.’ “Nobody in my family had seen anything like this coming.”
That always seems to be case, doesn’t it?
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
@Scott in Oklahoma:
What exactly is a liberal bigot? A person who doesn’t make excuses for white supremacists when they slaughter black people in a Church?
Scott, have you read the killer’s manifesto yet? Do any of his views remind you of the views of anyone you know?
@Tom:
Haven’t read his manifesto, but the photograph of him burning the American flag sure remind me of a lot of left wingers.
@Tom: You are truly a stupid person, Tom. In fact, I am dropping all pretenses of polite debate and will, henceforth, simply refer to you as “stupid”.
These people, such as Roof or Brinsley, are long-term racists. For Brinsley, it took a steady drone of “kill cops, kill cops” to incite him to commit his deed. Perhaps for Roof, it was the ongoing coverage of blacks, incited by the same buffoons to destroy property, kill cops and attack innocent white people, that triggered his murder spree. However, these racists that commit these acts are not born overnight. Only a stupid person would argue to that point, stupid.
@rich wheeler: So, by your way of thinking, someone voicing a point of view with a bullhorn deserves to be cursed at and physically attacked. I see.
@George Wells: You didn’t answer any of the other questions.
Do YThe south is full of racists and easily accessible guns while right wing media hammers hateful crap into the heads of uninformed losers.OU live in Oklahoma? Perhaps he does not befriend racist Yankee liberals from the north.
@JisterJ:
No, not so many southern Democrat KKK Grand Wizards here anymore. The Republicans have run them all off.
@Bill #100:
“You didn’t answer any of the other questions.”
Read Retire05’s #74.
It was perfect.
For just once, she lowered her partisan sword and revealed some real Christian grace.
I love her for that.
You have failed to earn such respect from me.
You can’t even grasp that I’m on your side at least half of the time, in spite of my repeatedly agreeing with you.
You toss me in with your reviled “lefties” and block-assume that all of their collective nonsensical positions are my own, and they are not.
You absurdly misquote my statements and ask me ridiculously irrelevant questions.
And you think that you deserve to have me answer them?
Evidently you don’t get the message when I refuse to dignify your hostile questions with a response, so let’s try this:
DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATH.
@Nanny G: #83
I guess this means that the 72 virgins the muslim men get in Heaven won’t be muslim.
@another vet: #88
Before I pass judgement of Roof, I want more info. It sounds like he was on the kind of drug or drugs all of the serial killers have been on for some years. It amazes me how many drug commercials warn that if the person has thoughts of suicide while using, or after stopping using the drug, they should call their doctor. Even quitting the drug could lead to suicide.
@retire05:
It is you. And people like you.
@Bill:
Keep fooling yourself while racist killings by cops and right wing lunatics and mass murders due to ridiculous guns laws are killing more Americans each year.
@Tom:
No, Tom; it’s Louis Farrakhan and Paris Lewis and David Duke. It’s you, someone who views everything through the prism of racism, never admitting that every race, all races, have had people they oppressed. American blacks are no more innocent of persecution than whites are.
People like you stoke the fires of racial divide. You thrive on it, and I can only surmise it is to make up for any lacking of self pride.
You’re no better than David Duke or his black counterparts. And your hatred for others is blatant.
I really feel sorry for you.
@Smorgasbord: The drugs may have pushed him over to the point where he went on his murdering spree but the bottom line is something had to get him to that point. It wasn’t the drugs. He obviously was hell bent on killing people he hated, in this case black people. The fact that this happened afterwards makes him even lower:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/charleston-shooting-relatives-forgive/2015/06/19/id/651380/
How many people, regardless of color, would say something like this? These people were harmless and serve as an example of the way people should be and were a threat to no one. Had one of my family members been one of his prey, I would have went on a hunting expedition with a couple of my many Colt 1911’s and killed the fucker.
@Bill: Southern Dem. racists Helms and Thurmond became Southern Repub, racists after CRA passed in 64.
Don’t believe the screaming Evangelicals were physically attacked by anybody. They were mocked , ridiculed and laughed at but I’m sure they expected that.
This guy.s manifesto is pretty clear, Where his insane ideas emanated from are open to debate. The loving people of Charleston, both black. and white, are handling this admirably.
@JisterJ: #108
I’m not going to say that there aren’t any racist white cops, but the police departments try to weed them out.
Please supply a link to ANY, “…right wing lunatics and mass murders….” You will find that ALL of the mass murderers are democrats, or are liberals. If any of the mass murderers were republicans or conservatives, the propaganda media would be broadcasting that info around the world.
I have a simple question for you:
If you are attacked by somebody, would you want it to happen in a gun free zone, or where guns are allowed, and concealed carry is allowed?
Anybody who has lived in Idaho very long, knows that if someone starts shooting, there will be return fire, and possibly a lot of it. Could this be why we don’t have very many shootings?
I forget which one it was, but one city had a law that said if someone commits a crime with a gun, there is a MANDATORY 5 year prison term ADDED ONTO any other penalty. The crooks didn’t want to do the MANDATORY 5 years, so they quit using guns.
For many years, people have been saying that if the EXISTING gun laws we now have would be enforced, crime would go down.
@another vet: #110
When EVERY MASS MURDERER from several years back were on the same type of drugs, I think it is a safe guess that the drugs had something to do with them. I would like to know if there is anybody investigating this.
@john: #91
####Terrorists commit their crimes to instill terror.####
I agree.
####You also seem to forget that jihadis are rightwingers.####
Are you sure? I haven’t seen any of them at any Tea Parties I have been to.
####Small government, religious based government, anti gay, anti women, anti abortion anti climate change (Allah gave them fossil fuels!) sounds like all right wing ideology to me####
As usual, you sway from the subject and go into your king’s agenda.
####Got a problem with ISIS? Then stop pounding your keys and volunteer and head on over there and fight them, and i don’t mean enlist####
I’m too old to go, and if I did go over, I would have to fight from an airconditioned building, because I can’t take the heat.
@john: #85
I haven’t gotten a koran yet, but I intend to when I go to the big city, but I usually forget to when I am there. I bought one some time ago, only to find out it was just a person’s version, not from the original koran.
I have read where others have said there is nothing mentioned about love and forgiveness in the koran. Are the quotes you gave from a koran that translates the original text of the original koran, or are there different versions, like there are different versions of the Bible?
@Smorgasbord:
Something for you to remind our left wingers of:
Jihadis don’t favor small government at all. They favor one huge government- Islam.
Roof hated the US. He hated the flag. That makes him left wing. He could easily be a democrat.
@drjohn: What we KNOW
Root was a racist who hated the govt.and blacks.
The people in the bible study treated him exceptionally well.
What does Isis or Dem/Repub have to do with this?
@rich wheeler:
Despite my hopes, it’s obvious from his latest pathetic post that dr John has learned nothing. He could have looked in the mirror and manned up. Instead he chooses to go deeper down the hole.
When Root says he went on the Internet to read about Trayvon Martin and “It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words “black on White crime” into Google, tand I have never been the same since that day” does Dr John imagine he was reading liberal or Democrat-leaning websites? I think we all know what type of websites he was frequenting.
Racism in a America isn’t a problem. All people have biases and prejudices, but America is one of the most “color-blind” nations in the world.
Nowhere in the world can someone of dark-skin enjoy total equality and opportunity.
That’s a fact.
This guy was a nut, and nuts will always be in society. The more you try to engineer society to be “perfect” and without any perception of “racism”, the more you’ll engender it.
If the left continues on engineering protected classes, rather than engendering freedom and justice for ALL, they’ll only get class wars and prejudice on all sides.
@rich wheeler: What did KKK Grand Wizard Robert Byrd transform into, Rich? Face it, the racist history of the south is borne on the backs of Democrats. What’s more, that racism is still alive and well in the Democrat party, aimed at any minority that dares not carry on the liberal mantra. Further, any Democrat racist is celebrated and supported by the entire left because THEY really espouse the Democrat mantra.
@Smorgasbord: I suppose there was a reason this racist chose a Bible study group to kill some blacks rather than some city street corner where black drug dealers could be found to kill and actually do the community a favor. Perhaps the fact that the drug dealers might shoot back and the Bible study group probably wouldn’t proved to be a factor.
@Tom:
No, stupid, because Democrat leaning sites were promoting the killing of whites, in general, and cops specifically. However, where he got his information was not as important as the factual quality of the information.
For instance, keeping in mind the results of the trial, would it not be a factual statement that Zimmerman was in the right, shooting an assailant that was beating his head against the cement? Or, are you, as your namesake indicates, simply stupid?
@Bill:
What does Columbine, the Aurora theater, the Sandy Hook School and the South Carolina Church all have in common?
About the South Carolina shooters choice of targets:
“Last week, while they were drinking in the back of Scriven’s house, Roof blurted out his plan about carrying out a mass shooting at the College of Charleston.
“I don’t think the church was his primary target because he told us he was going for the school,” Scriven said Friday. “But I think he couldn’t get into the school because of the security … so I think he just settled for the church.”
And what does the University say about “security?”
“[Campus] Police officers responding to an active shooter are trained to proceed immediately to the area in which shots were last heard in order to stop the shooting as quickly as possible. The first responding officers may be in teams; they may be dressed in normal patrol uniforms, or they may be wearing external ballistic vests and Kevlar helmets or other tactical gear. The officers may be armed with rifles, shotguns or handguns. Do exactly as the officers instruct. The first responding officers will be focused on stopping the active shooter and creating a safe environment for medical assistance to be brought in to aid the injured.”
Every one of the locations of mass shootings have been gun-free zones. Every one. The Aurora shooter even chose the theater because it was a “gun-free” theater.
And what happened at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs when the shooter encountered a woman with a carry permit? She took him out after he killed two congregants, not nine.
But the left will continue to promote
gun-free zonestarget rich environments. And evil people like the South Carolina will continue to pick them for their evil deeds.@Bill:
Some believe that Zimmerman was found not guilty. Some also might believe that the DOJ chose not to bring a civil rights case against Zimmerman. But perhaps it’s all gossip.
@Smorgasbord #112:
Could it perhaps be because Idaho has only about 1.5 million people?
If you logic was correct, Texas would have a low rate of gun violence per 100,000 people, but it has 4 times Idaho’s rate, and Louisiana has almost ten times as much. (Idaho 0.8 per 100,000, Texas 3.2 per 100,000 and Louisiana 7.7 per 100,000.)
Not to irritate my “liberal” friends here, but note that Idaho’s population is less than 1% Black, Texas’s population is approximately 12% Black, and Louisiana’s population is 32% Black, statistics that mirror rather nicely the relative rates of gun violence in these respective states.
This correlation may be coincidental, but it matches the data better than gun control measures in these states.
@drjohn: #116
I was insinuating that when I said I have never seen them at a Tea Party rally, where we want:
(1) Smaller government
(2) Lower taxes
(3) Term limits
(4) Pay off the debt
(5) Etc.
Two easy ways to tell if a news media is liberal:
(1) They call the USA a democracy, instead of the REPUBLIC that it is.
(2) If a republican is accused of a crime, or immoral act, their party affiliation is mentioned first. If they are a democrat, the party affiliation is not mentioned, or it is mentioned at the last of the story.
Since Roof’s party affiliation hasn’t been mentioned, this means he is either a democrat, or no party affiliation, or it is unknown.
This is the best news to come out since the shooting:
Look how united the people of Charleston are.
Wonderful!
@Smorgasbord #125:
The kid’s barely 21, dropped out of school @ 9th grade. What are the chances that this sociopath is enamored with or ardently supports the American political process enough to have ever voted, much less affiliated himself with a political party?
Pretty slim. He wanted to start a “civil war,” remember? He doesn’t WANT to fix things by working WITHIN the system. He’s a “lone wolf.” He doesn’t WANT to have his voice
countedlost among the masses. He doesn’t sound to me like much of a voter.If I had to pick one, though, I’d guess that he prefers the Republican Party to the Democratic Party, only because he’s PROBABLY aware that the majority of Blacks WHO VOTE support the Democrats. He’s a racist, remember. But that preference should not be taken as an embarrassment to Republicans. He probably also likes hamburgers, but that doesn’t reflect poorly on McDonalds.
@George Wells: Another thing we have in Texas and all along the border and coastal states is illegal immigrants. Along with our wide open borders comes a lot of drug trade as well. All this increases crime and violence, and all courtesy of our liberal government.
Why would you jump to THAT ignorant conclusion? If he wants a civil war, he would have no better selection of a party than the Democrat party. It was they that supported the Occupy Wall Street mob of thugs that took over public property, committed crimes and destroyed private property. It is also the Democrats that takes anything that even resembles a racial incident and incites violent riots over them, to the point that police activity in the communities is severely curtailed.
Most likely Roof identified with no political party, but certainly not the Republicans, who are law and order, personal responsibility and small government. Committing violence in the name of an ideology is more a Democrat, left wing thing.
@Bill: #120
I think you will find that all of the mass murders were committed in gun free areas, and most churches are gun free areas. In fact, some of the mass murderers were known to go to different places before they found a gun free place.
There have been a few times when a member of a church shot someone who started to shoot people in the church.
Here in Idaho, there are very few, “NO GUNS ALLOWED” signs, because that would keep a lot of people from doing business with them. I agree with the right of business owners to decide things like this. I can’t believe that some people feel they should be able to carry their gun ANYWHERE. Those kinds of people, and the ones who carry their rifles openly, are doing more harm than good for gun rights.
I have often thought that the perfect way to settle things like this is to separate the USA in as many sections as necessary. They would start with one that has no rules at all, and work on up to the one that has the most rules, where almost all of a person’s life is regulated. Each person would then decide which section they want to live in.
@retire05: #122
I remember reading a short time ago where a business put up a, “NO GUS” sign, and I thought that all they are doing is telling crooks which places to rob. Remember when a small New York City newspaper listed all of the address of people who had gun permits. At fist I was upset, then I realized that all the newspaper did was tell the crooks which houses NOT TO ROB. I’m guessing that the crooks in the area took a map and marked each house for them NOT TO ROB.
@Smorgasbord:
A firearm is nothing more than a tool. It is a tool like a hammer, a knife, a shovel or a car. Over 32,000 people died in automobile wrecks in 2013, but do you ever hear anyone demanding we outlaw cars or run background checks on people who drive? If you have ever purchased alcohol, should you be allowed to keep your driver’s license? Because once you climb behind the wheel of a vehicle, and you’re drunk, that vehicle becomes a weapon.
The left’s attack on firearms is simply because they have created an environment that they have no answer on how to cure, so the go after firearms. But what about those murders committed with a knife? Do we ban all knives? Require background checks for any housewife that wants to buy a set of steak knives? How about fists? Check out the FBI stats. Fists are weapons and are used to kill people?
Remember, it’s called gun control for a reason. It’s all about the control part but all those gun control laws have never prevented one death at the hands of someone who made a street buy.
@George Wells: #124
Keep in mind that Idaho has open carry, and easily gotten concealed carry permits. I couldn’t believe that Texas didn’t have open carry until just recently. I also don’t know how hard it is to get a concealed carry permit. It would be interesting to watch the gun violence rate now that Texas has open carry.
I actually LOVE living in a state that has one area code (208). I also like places where a person has to look up to see the sky because the mountains are blocking it. I never have cared for larger towns. The feds own about 60% of Idaho, or we would have a lot more people living here.
@George Wells: #127
He can’t be a republican, because the propaganda media would have mentioned this right at the beginning. Pay attention to what news media you read, watch, or listen to, and if someone is a republican, that is mentioned at the beginning of the story. If they are a democrat, it is either not mentioned, or it is mentioned at the end. I read this some time ago, and it is true.
@retire05: #131
Falling coconuts kill more people than sharks. Should coconut trees be banned, or roped off?
You said it is all about control. I think it goes further than that. Most, if not all of these events happened before a country was taken over from the inside:
SOME OF THE STEPS TO TAKE OVER A COUNTRY
Do any of these sound familiar?
(1) Take away the citizen’s guns so they can’t defend themselves.
(2) Take over healthcare so the government decides who gets treated and who doesn’t.
(3) Infiltrate their government.
(4) Infiltrate their churches.
(5) Infiltrate their news media so it can brainwash the citizens to an agenda.
(6) Get as many people as possible on welfare to drain the treasury.
(7) Spend the country into so much debt it can’t pay it off.
(8) Infiltrate their schools to brainwash the kids into doing what they are told.
(9) Take daddy out of the family. Without a daddy in the family, the kids are more likely to do drugs, quit school, get pregnant, be more violent.
(10) Lower the moral value of people through the entertainment industries.
(11) Give the people something to fight each other over (religion, race, nationality, inequality, money) so they are distracted with what is actually going on in their country until it is too late.
(12) Decrease the military as much as possible so it can’t stop an overthrow of the government.
(13) Let illegals in the country to help drain the treasury.
(14) Keep increasing taxes to the point the citizens don’t have much money left.
I have read different stories of people who came here from communist countries that were not communist at first, and they are telling that what is going on in the USA happened before their country was taken over from the inside.
@Smorgasbord:
1) Nazi Germany
2) Stalin’s Russia
3, 4, and 5) Antonio Gramsci, Italian Marxist
6 & 7) Cloward and Piven, Socialists and friends of Bill and Hillary Clinton
8, 9, 10 and 11) Antonia Gramsci, Italian Marxist
12) More than decreasing the military, I think it is more a plan of having sycophant power seekers, like General Casey, running it.
13) Cloward and Piven
14) Marx, through progressive taxation.
I know a woman whose family fled Castro’s Cuba. Her father and mother were apolitical, owned a small grocery store where they lived over it. When Castro rolled into Cuba, the grocery store was confiscated for the state but the family was still required to work it. The father wanted his family out, so they booked a flight to Miami on the pretense they were just taking a vacation to see family. While they were in line, the Castro goons make them give up all their luggage. The mother, and girls, were required to turn over the jewelry they were weaning and after that was done, the father was taken into custody so that his family would return. He told them to board the plane and leave. They did. Seven years later he was released and allowed to leave, penniless and with only the clothes on his back, for Miami.
She told me that the very things they fled she is now seeing the beginnings of in the United States. A nation build on the collective, and not the individual, is not a free nation.
@retire05: #135
As I have said many times, I’m glad I live in Idaho, where there are probably more guns than people.
@JisterJ:
Funny thing, up till Roof, every mass killing of late has been at the hands of a liberal whacko (sorry, excuse my redundancy) and we can’t classify Roof yet simply because we don’t know (despite the stupid efforts of stupid people like yourself to quickly make him conservative).
@Bill #128:
Why? Precisely because I put myself in Roof’s shoes and tried to think like he does. He’s not a Rhodes Scholar, remember? He’s ignorant. And with at least three quarters of voting Blacks voting Democrat, and with Roof HATING Blacks, IF he sided with a political party, it wouldn’t be with the Democrats. Too many of his hated Blacks there. That’s all.
@Smorgasbord @132 & 133:
Much more likely that Roof is a political virgin. He’s too far out of touch and too ego-centric to bother with or respect other people’s opinions, or to have his opinion count equally with theirs through voting. My guess is that he never registered to vote. That detail could be found, not that it really matters…
I have a gay cowboy friend who lives in Idaho. He collects antique china and authentic Civil War military uniforms, has a big ranch w/horses and cattle, and wears fabulous big belt buckles and cowboy hats. Nice fellow. Don’t believe that he “carries,” though…
@George Wells:
You neglect a few details. First, if he is not too bright, naturally he would gravitate towards the Democrat party. Second, being fond of the Democrat party AND finding his beloved Democrat party simply swarming with blacks may be what motivated him to thin out their numbers. Third, you seem to assume all racists reside within the Republican party and, as we see time and time again, that is simply a left-wing fantasy. The south was once dominated by Democrats and Democrats, mostly, opposed civil rights and practices extreme racism.
NOTHING clearly indicates if he was left or right. But, then again, what does it matter?
Now, you never did answer my question as to whether or not you were implying that gun sales went up simply due to a black man being elected President.
@Bill: This is one of your most bizarre posts to date—not easy.
@rich wheeler: Oh, because I refuse to submit to the logic of “this guy wanted to shoot blacks, therefore he is a Republican, which goes to prove ALL Republicans want to shoot blacks” and, fairly conclusively, show just how stupid such a line of reasoning is?
I’M bizarre? Why is it so important to liberals to blame the opposing group for what ever the tragedy of the day might be?
@Bill: Please ref where you got “This guy wanted ———-” Did you make it up?
@George Wells: #139
I have a simple policy when I hear news like Roof. I wait until the investigation is concluded. I don’t know if he is republican, democrat, other party, or no party. I have not heard of ANY mass shooter being a republican, or a conservative. He could be the first. I will wait and see.
I don’t like to be wrong, and I used to be one that always wanted to guess things first, but I was usually wrong, and I kept embarrassing myself, and made myself look foolish. That is why a let people speculate all they want, but wait until there are enough FACTS for me to decide things.
Keep in mind that people who know you or me, know if we are speculators or fact finders, and know if they can trust us. I want to be a person who people know that I check things out before I make statements about something. I still slip up once in a while and speculate about something, but I try not to. I will wait until the final report comes out on Roof.
It sounds like I would like your cowboy friend. I love the western outfits and lingo. I grew up in Iowa, and the first time I went west as a truck driver, I kept looking for cowboy hats, and the western lingo, and didn’t find many. I was greatly disappointed.
@rich wheeler: I paraphrased a bit, but I do believe that was what he stated he was up to just before he opened fire. Am I wrong here?
Further, is it not a true statement that the left has been working frantically to link Roof to the GOP, the NRA and conservatives in general?
@Bill: You make up quotes and then italicize them? Come back to reality man.
I doubt this guy had any politics—he hated Blacks as well as Jews and probably others.
Bill #140:
Your first two points are debatable, and frankly, not worth the bother, as they are both based upon insulting conjecture and nothing more. But the above comment comes from your mind alone and does not reflect my previous acknowledgment that the Democratic party has AT LEAST as many racists – now – as does the GOP. It always DID. I’ve never suggested otherwise. In fact, the predominance of Black Democrats alone probably tips the scale, as it has been my experience that Blacks excel in racism to a degree that most Whites fail to comprehend.
Or did you simply forget who you addressed your comment to?
I can’t see what difference Roof’s political “affiliation” (if any) would make, if such is ever discovered, any more than hamburgers would fall out of favor if Roof was fond of them. That logic seems tight to me. Same with the NRA. If anyone is holding their breath, worrying that he might share some trivial connection with them, they should get a life. Roof was male (apparently). That doesn’t indict all males. He was also genetically human. But his behavior wasn’t human, or male, or NRA or Republican or Democrat. It was evil. It was so evil that any other coincidental similarity between him and other individuals or groups is irrelevant.
If the “left” is attempting to make such a case, it is exactly as absurd as if the GOP were attempting to make the converse argument – attempting to connect Roof to the Democratic party. That wasn’t what YOU were attempting, was it?
@George Wells:
Odd that would be your take on that, since they merely reversed your points. So, what you are saying is that YOUR point of view (based on speculation devoid of facts) is valid, while the opposite (containing just as much fact-based evidence as yours) is invalid and, further, not worth discussion. I’ll leave that just as it is.
Again, odd, since there is a resounding call to discard the Stars and Bars from state buildings. Personally, I am unclear as to WHY that flag would fly over any state buildings anywhere, but what, exactly, does it have to do with the horrible killings? Why, there is a photo of Roof holding the Stars and Bars, so, therefore, ipso facto…. It was reported he wore a pair of Timberline boots when he committed his crime; do YOU have any Timberline boots, you GD racist? (calm down… I am merely making a rhetorical point).
So, what does his political affiliation have to do with the murders? What does the Confederate battle flag have to do with the murders? What do Timberline boots have to do with the murders? What does gun control have to do with the murders? Perhaps something… possibly nothing. So why is the left making such a tremendous effort to link this guy to conservatives?
No, what I was doing was showing how absolutely absurd and pointless it was to TRY to make that connection for, even if the information was available to make it, what difference would it make? Would it provide some sort of preventative means to stop future attacks? No, it is political and a means to try to assuage the actual guilt of any association with the inspiration for the attack.
With Zimmerman, the left IMMEDIATELY jumped to the conclusion that he killed Travon Martin for racial reasons. Lacking evidence to support this, they began fabricating it. When Michael Brown was killed, the left IMMEDIATELY pounced on the blatherings of fellow-store burglar and ran with “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot”, inciting riots along the way. When Garner was brought down and suffocated under his own weight, this was a racial killing of some innocent citizen. Scott’s death was racially motivated (though the fervor was beginning to fizzle out and South Carolina, as they have done currently, utilized common sense and rational thought to keep the incident from spiraling out of control), and then Freddie Gray’s “spine was snapped”… for being black. What all these incidents have in common is that they were utilized by the left to vilify people, incite violence and racial tensions were kept high, even as detail after detail emerged giving lie to the racial accusations.
Try as they might, the left is failing in this case to turn these terrible deaths into a political pay day, and this is all due solely to the leaders and people of South Carolina and Charleston. Should you agree with this, then I appreciate it. Consider your hand shaken and your back patted.
@Bill #148:
I have no doubt that some killings – both Black and White – are racially motivated.
I have no doubt that some killings of gay people are motivated by homophobia.
I have no doubt that some robberies are the desperate consequence of a collection of contributing failures of the family, of the educational system, of corporate America and of our government to help make subsistence employment available and desirable to everyone who wants and needs it. We have one faction that would have everything handed out on silver platters, and the other faction that would dissemble every form of assistance if given the chance. Historically, the compromises achieved between these two factions have failed to live up to the grand expectations (and promises) of those responsible for them. This is one of the more disappointing consequences of bipartisan politics and one of the better arguments for reducing the size of government.
Be that as it may, there is still some value to be had in understanding the root causes of crime, and particularly those instances of crime which rise for whatever reason into the brief attention span of the public beast. Politicians must, after all, pander to their constituents. So when a Confederate Flag – a symbol which is associated with our inglorious Civil War in particular and with racism in general – appears in the media droppings of a mass-murderer, it is not taken as an innocent corollary to Timberline boots or McDonald’s hamburgers. Neither is it lost on anyone that Roof’s mass killings occurred in the same state that had a Confederate Flag hanging conspicuously at it’s state capital. There was an implicit legitimization of that Confederate Flag’s message conveyed by its display that went beyond the salutation of South Carolina’s Civil War soldiers who died for what they believed was a noble cause. The governor of the state – a Republican – understands this and has called for the flag’s removal. She has NOT asked for the first amendment rights of individual citizens to be infringed upon. I think her decision is appropriate, even though it doesn’t change what has happened and isn’t likely to make much of a difference going forward. When there is very little you can do, you do what little you can and hope for the best. It’s what politicians do.
@George Wells:
By innuendo you place blame on the Confederate battle flag? So what is next? Demanding that all Confederate State memorials be torn down?
The flag, that most people are under the assumption flies on (not at) the Capitol, was flying at the Confederate War Memorial. And I have noticed how people like you who want to blame a flag for the murder of 9 Americans, never talk about how the flag was put there in 1962 by a Democrat governor, Fritz Hollings. Democrat Hollings actually had the flag flying on the Capitol, until a Republican moved it in 2000. All those Democrat governors of South Carolina left it where Hollings put it.
News flash, George, it wasn’t the Confederate battle flag that caused the shooter to murder those 9 people. No more than it is the American flag that causes someone of Japanese heritage to murder someone just because their ancestors were illegally imprisoned by FDR in camps that flew the American flag or cause some Native American to murder someone because it was under the American flag that the American military, many of them black, committed genocide against Native Americans.
And what importance does any flag have anyway? The SCOTUS said we can burn it, we can tromp on it, ala Obama’s friend, William Ayers, we can tear it to shreds, and it is all legal. The left has told us for years the American flag is just a piece of cloth, an inanimate object, and we shouldn’t get upset if it is desecrated.
Now you may try to come back at me and say that the Confederate flag doesn’t represent all the people of South Carolina and has no business flying over public property. I submit to you then that the gay pride flag has no business flying over American public property, either, since there are people that [might] find that offensive.
The shooter is nuts, a fruitcake, that some where along the line learned to hate blacks and Jews. He is the white counterpart of Eric Sheppard. Just as nuts, just as full of hate, just as evil.