Under The Radar: 10th Amendment Movement Picks Up Steam [Reader Post]

We must keep up the fight, but we must also realize that we will never, “win,” like the war with the Islamofascists, this is and will be a perpetual struggle. The only thing that will solve the problem of the moonbat liberals is a complete collapse of civilization, only when all people are reduced to the basic struggle to survive will this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally). But until then we must confront this folly every day. Not long ago on a liberal blog I pointed out the 10th Amendment and had a moonbat write back that it was the 10th Amendment that gave the government “the right to do whatever they need to do.”

Our writer says,

“Politicians need to be reminded that our Constitution is still in effect.”

The real question is, Is it? There is serious reason to doubt it. The feds have abridged the Constitution for so long and so egregiously that it could be argued it has been abrogated entirely. Only by insisting that this is not the case can we have it still be in effect. You can take it the bank that the federal government will not take that lightly. In particular, all of Congress, that supposedly represent our states, really represent themselves in their cozy little federal sinecures. They will fight it tooth and toenail.

@mooseburger:

“Yes, it will be worth the collateral deaths of all the small children and old people…”

No, but if people don’t wake up to the danger, that IS what will happen, but by then it may be to late to take back our country. You Lefties twist everything. Do you do it deliberately, or is your thinking really that warped?

Oh, wait… “let us hope and pray that Osama can get our country back on track! “

A bunch who have more in common with Stalin and Mao than with Washington and Jefferson are our best hope? I see, it really is that warped.

@mooseburger:

“Lefties twist everything eh?”

Yes, you do. Americans aren’t aware of the danger they are in. What he’s saying is very realistic. We are at war with barbarians, and our Legislators are out to lunch on everyting important. Threats are ignored while the Left pilfers the national coffers in the name of all manner of perverse fantasies.

The American people are collectively asleep, and need to wake up to the danger while it can still be dealt with effectively. If we don’t wake up ourselves, then some external jolt will need to cause it. If that doesn’t happen, then the Leftist rot will continue to spread until we are unable to effectively defend ourselves, and America will cease to exist.

Now for the anarchists that would probably sound great, at least until they are confronted with the reality of how it would impact their lives. But, not being able to see how what they do will harm them is where we get the “idiot” part of “useful idiots.”

You want to paint a picture of Scheuer as hoping that Americans die, when all he wants is for them to wake up. But, being a realist, he’s telling us that as far as he can see, only a tragedy will effect that. Failing that, our “leaders” continue to destroy our country unimpeded. You and your ilk would rather have us continue to ignore reality, which in the end will get a whole lot more of us killed. And you have the nerve to criticize him?! You’re the sick ones.

Obama’s policies will weaken America to the point that it will no longer be able to defend itself abroad, and possibly not even at home if we are invaded. And you’re OK with that?

Even in the absence of foreign invaders, Obama’s own policies of infanticide and euthanasia of the elderly and terminally ill will result in far more deaths than an attack by Osama.

You are the ones who actually suppport making the murder of Americans a part of public policy, not us.

Sheuer is NOT hoping and praying for an attack, just saying that we have come to the sad point in our history that failing such a wake-up call, we may not survive as a nation. To say he is as eager for that to happen, as you Lefties are of imposing Fascism on us, is grossly twisting his words.

Did it ever occur to you “geniuses” that he’s using a statement like that to try to bring home to people the seriousness of the situation? NO! …because you have to hate the Right, because without that hate you have nothing to motivate you – right and wrong, good and evil have no meaning, only your identity as an accepted member of the collective is what matters. I.e., everything you know is wrong.

ANOTHER THOUGHT – If such an attack doesn’t come before Obungler has destroyed America, it WILL come after. So, if it’s going to come, better when we can deal with it, then not.

Scheuer? Let’s see:

1: anti-war, Clinton era CIA agent who couldn’t convince Bill to get OBL on ten separate occasions,

2: hated Bush and his military aggression,

3: thinks “… that 2008 was a year of setbacks for America, and that the future appeared rather bleak…”. That was a year when Iraq violence declined to record lows, Iraqis were stepping up to the plate, SOFA agreed to, successful election with Sunni participation, and Muslim approval of jihad continued to decline. I’d say Scheuer got that call wrong. .

4: Gets himself fired from Jamestown Foundation, offending the Obama loving membership by saying Obama US-Israeli policy was Bush policy….. yeah, they really look alike on foreign policy. Israel’s JPost is telling us that Obama’s making some room under the bus for them. Shunned big Israeli association, and told them there needs to be “more space” between the US and Israel. Real Bush like, don’t you think? There’s another miscall.

5: said the two best POTUS candidates to battle the global jihad movements was Kucinich and Ron Paul. Right… isolationism and protectionism is soooo conservative.

6: comes from the “let’s change US policy to the terrorists demands” school of thought. His battlefield is founded on his belief that terrorists hate our policies, so we have to change our policies, not fight. uh hummm. Another “our fault” kind of guy.

Considering all the above about Scheuer, two things come to mind:

Don’t thrust your anti-war Clinton guy on me, because he’s not part of my brand of conservatism. You libs can claim him as your own – party registration be damned. Or the Paulbots can have them. Nope… not mine.

BUT… that’s not going to happen, tho he shares their stance on war. So I wouldn’t be surprised if this wasn’t some sort of deliberate back room play of subterfuge to further tear down the GOP. He knows very well the Dems will jump on a comment like that, and tie him to the conservative right. He is anything but.

Doesn’t matter to me who belongs to who, talk like that is treason, it is anti American and it’s wrong, it is wishing death on innocent people who don’t deserve it and it is astounding to me that yonason and Old Trooper can’t bring themselves to condemn it.

Instead, yonason says:”Obama’s policies will weaken America to the point that it will no longer be able to defend itself abroad, and possibly not even at home if we are invaded. And you’re OK with that?”
“Even in the absence of foreign invaders, Obama’s own policies of infanticide and euthanasia of the elderly and terminally ill will result in far more deaths than an attack by Osama.”

So basically, your cool with Osama causing some deaths here again if it would get Obama in a position where he couldn’t enact his policies?

Old Trooper says: “You can’t figure out why no member of congress or the courts will be the first to ignite civil war by challenging this evil cabal?—Think!

If Americans won’t let leftists have their country, the left will burn it and leave it in ruins. There is no peaceful way out of the corner leftists have placed Americans in… Congress, the courts, even the military brass and law enforcement, will do nothing to save this country. The state run media complex is running interference. The American people are on their own here…”

yonason, Old Trooper; whatever happened to promote your ideas, your values, your positions, have a vote, and let the will of the people decide the direction of the Country? Why the talk of civil war? Was this something you were discussing during the Bush years, or this a recent developement? If an election is decided, not contested and deemed valid, isn’t this what the Founders determined as our own self determination?

I’m sorry for you that the election didn’t go the way you liked, but there is no excuse for talk of:

“The only thing that will solve the problem of the moonbat liberals is a complete collapse of civilization, only when all people are reduced to the basic struggle to survive will this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally).”
or:

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michael-scheuer-fox-americas-only-ho

period. Doesn’t matter who says it, or what political views they hold. Or who they voted for or didn’t vote for, or how much they dislike the the current leadership.

If you cannot take a stand and denounce talk of “The only thing that will solve the problem of the moonbat liberals is a complete collapse of civilization” to ensure ” this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally).” or Mr. Scheuer’s words regarding another attack by Osama, and be defensive, understanding and enabling of such talk, then we know who is really rooting against America don’t we. It is those who speak such words, and the good men who do nothing to call it down or speak against it to stop it.

Oh yes… apologies to Nancy for falling for the “Scheuer” off topic sidetrack.

the Fed Govt will not go down easy. This is beyond Obama.

http://politics.nashvillepost.com/2009/07/19/atf-declares-tennessee-firearms-freedom-act-null-and-void/

@MataHarley:

He’s getting no “mileage” out of me, except maybe in his own demented imagination.

And I’m not going to shut up just because some punk is going to lie about what I say.

@MataHarley:

“Leave off the “allowed the left to get so powerful”. Not the case.”

Ok, maybe I’m reading a bit into it. (Also, I probably wasn’t clear enough in that by “Left” I meant the actual practice of governance, not just actively by the Dems, but passively by the Reps, which is essentiall what Sheuer was saying by, correctly I believe, blaming them all for the problems we are in.)

in the interview, he did say that none of the Politicians can be trusted, that they are all just interested in keeping their jobs, whether Dem or Rep. And there is a lot of truth to that, too. (Same in Israel, many times over, which is a major reason why they can’t get their act together.) It’s America’s fault that our elected officials aren’t being held more accountable, and from MY perspective this is primarily a problem with the Left, though the faux-Right is involved (as I also acknowledge above).

Anyway, in the tape Sheuer was pretty clear that Americans need to DEMAND of our “leaders” (Right AND Left) that they protect us. We aren’t doing that, and it is his thesis that only a major terror attack will motivate us to wake up. I think he DOES have a point, regardless of how falacious his reasoning to get to that point. All Sheuer’s other faults aside, he’s right that we aren’t doing enough to hold our elected officials accountable. A terror attack MAY be the only thing to wake us up, but this has drawbacks that I explained above.

I don’t know what else Sheuer has advocated, and from what you’ve told me I’m almost surprised Moose isn’t on his side. But he is right that America needs to wise up, and he doesn’t seem to be anywhere neer as obnoxious as J. Wright, who I doubt Moose criticized.

In any case, if Moose didn’t call Wright a traitor for “G-Damning” America, AND GLEEFULLY PRAYING FOR HER DISTRUCTION, then he needs to shut up about Sheuer, because he (Moose) is obviously not ranting out of a sense of conscience, but out of an ideological obsession of the most dishonest kind.

Yon, go back and read some of the links in my post. One of them is my Sea2Sea post back in Mar 2008 (pre FA days) about this guy.

He’s no newbie… was Clinton’s head of the OBL CIA unit. Written many books. Left considers him traitorous since he publicly blasted Clinton for not getting OBL. Right doesn’t like him because he’s a blame America (foreign policy) first kind of guy.

This leaves him on the fringes with Ron Paul and Kucinich… the latter of which he identifies more. Kucinich also tells us not to trust our leadership, but that doesn’t mean I’d give him the time of day if he asked.

Here’s a few more ditties that tell you about the man… some items from his columns from Antiwar.com…, where’s he’s been a contributor since 2007.

Syria and Iran: The Threats That Aren’t

Why does Normal Podhoretz Hate America?

The Anti-Americanism of Israel-Firsters

Can’t resist his last paragraph of the above little number:

Finally, I wish to directly refute Mr. Schoenfeld’s claim that I “cast aspersions on American Jews.” I do not cast aspersions, I forthrightly damn, and pray that God damns, any American – Jew, Catholic, Evangelical, Irish, German, Hindu, hermaphrodite, thespian, or otherwise – who flogs the insane idea that American and Israeli interests are one and the same. The nation-state of Israel is an intolerable burden to the treasury and security of the United States, and Washington’s current relationship with Israel – sanctioned by the AIPAC-funded political leaders of both parties – is one of several factors that are leading to full-scale American participation in other peoples’ religious wars, religious wars that David Horowitz’s recent “Islamofascist Awareness Week” manifestly wants to bring to the streets of the United States.

Here’s what he wrote in 2007 about who was in better shape in 2007… the US or AQ. This analysis that was tandamount to an “America 0, Bin Laden 1″ summary appeared in the Asian Times Dec 21, 2007… right about when the first wave of our US Surge troops were beginning to leave.

Here’s another article akin to the anti-American accusation on Podhoretz, only this one’s on George Weigel.

What, one wonders, can possibly inspire the neoconservatives’ hate for Americans, their history, their traditions, and their ideas? In the context of this question, George Weigel’s new book, Faith, Reason, and the War against Jihadism. A Call to Action, is more troubling than Norman Podhoretz’s viciously anti-American World War IV. The Long War Against Islamofacism because of Mr. Weigel’s reputation as a brilliant Catholic scholar, confidant of popes, and commentator on Catholicism’s role in America. In Faith, Reason, and the War Against Jihadism, however, Mr. Weigel reveals himself as just one more America-hating neoconservative; he is a clone of Mr. Podhoretz and his acolytes, and, like them, can barely constrain his contempt for his countrymen, saying, for example, that it is the “sovereign prerogative” of these fools to elect non-neoconservative candidates who are incompetent, naive, and clueless. [p. 142]

I didn’t watch Beck’s interview, and I don’t know if Beck is aware of Scheuer’s history and scribblings. But I most certainly am. There’s nothing this man can say that I would defend. Scheuer’s scum in my book, and not to be trusted as an ally (as the Dems well know).

As I said, I would not be in the least bit surprised if this was a planted statement so that his radicalism can be tied to conservatives. This fits with the Alinsky “spin and pounce” tactics that are arising in desperation in the past week. The left must discredit the GOP (and Blue Dogs siding with them) who stand against the agenda. Obama is laying in on DeMint and misrepresenting the Waterloo statement, and Huffpo is nailing Steele with agreeing with DeMint using the same tactic. CBS and Huffpo are busy touting Steele using the “socialist” word in a Q & A… guess he’s finally calling it as he sees it. About bloody time.

You pick a politically incorrect phrase from the opposition, distort it, and watch the fish bite the dead bait, scrambling to explain it in defense. It’s a waste of time. And with Scheuer it’s really easy…. he belongs to the fringe left, not the right. He deserves not even a nod of acknowledgement.

Your clue should have been that moose brought him up on a 10th Amendment thread. Don’t you wonder why the slide off topic?

I’m in. Where do I sign up? It is good that the separate states are beginning to take their own sovereignty seriously. I do believe that I read an article awhile back that Texas has invited Oklahoma and Kansas to join them. I could be wrong but you never know. I even remember a time when there was discussion on whether Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming and Nebraska should secede from the union and form a separate country. These five states are the least populated in the lower 48. Their economies are primarily agricultural: wheat, cows, safflower, etc. Montana and Wyoming share the Powder River Basin coal fields and all five are excellent vacation spots. It is wide open up to the Front Range and the Bighorn Mountains and I mean open as all have counties that have populations of 1,000 or less.
The catch/ace-in-the-hole: These are the only states with active ICBMs in the ground. Around places like Great Falls, Minot, Rapid City, Cheyenne and west of Omaha. I can take you to silos in Montana, some of which are right next to numbered highways. Washington would either clamp down or fold with two pair. Cause when you have those puppies on your ground, you are holding at least a full house.

@MataHarley:

@yonason:

Just one more, sorry Nancy.

I used to read Gabriel Schoenfeld’s, Connect the Dots on the Commentary Magazine blog. Schoenfeld critiqued Scheuer and his book, Imperial Hubris, in a post he entitled “What became of the CIA.” That started a back and forth between them which started a series of postings Schoenfeld called Michael Scheuer Watch, there are 8 numbered posts and are all catalogued in the link below, including “What became of the CIA.” The whiz kid was no match for Schoenfeld.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/schoenfeld/1168

Mata is right about Scheuer, I personally think Scheuer had no business in the CIA. He’s a leaker and a liar, very much anti-Israel.

That’s an interesting find, Missy… but then you always come up with interesting finds, girl. LOL I’d even go further than your descriptions and call him the KKK grand poobah of CIA agents. This is a vicious and vile man… not to mention woefully inept. With this boob at the helm, small wonder OBL escaped our clutches for so many years prior to 911.

Yep… the left and their fringe can keep him. Not my dirty laundry.

“If you want to rise to the occasion and engage in the defense of Scheuer, that’s certainly your right”

I guess it’s still not clear that I’m not doing this to defend Sheuer, just to point out, as you rightly say, the Left is so desperate to attack us in any way they can, all the while their people are FAR worse and they don’t mind. And not only do they not mind, but really love the awful stuff they advocate, while pretending to hate less offensive stuff in us. That was my point, not that Sheuer is credible, and not even entirely in this (as you can see from the caveats I brought in my earliest posts on this).

I appreciate the excellent material on him. Also, even if Obama said something that I found true, I wouldn’t be above agreeing with what he said, though almost certainly not for the same reasons he said it.

Old Trooper:

Are you familiar with the case of Army Major Stephan Frederick Cook? It seems that retirees aren’t the only ones who need have no fear of deployment by this group of wackos. Apparently they also will not deploy reserve officers who file court cases stating they believe that Obie was born outside the U.S., that Obie is therefore ineligible to be president, and that it would be committing a crime to serve under him.

It is interesting to note that when I state that I deplore these comments:

these from JustAl:

“The only thing that will solve the problem of the moonbat liberals is a complete collapse of civilization, only when all people are reduced to the basic struggle to survive will this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally).”

And These:

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michael-scheuer-fox-americas-only-ho

The issue here in response to my comments becomes about everything else except what was said by JustAl and Scheuer, which I still stand on my comments deploring such talk. I see no reason for ANY American who cares about this country, no matter your political views, to not understand that this is way over the acceptable line of reason. I don’t know how you can even begin to try to justify it. I notice JustAl hasn’t came back to defend his statement, and my comments about his and Scheuer’s statements were directed at them, with my thoughts being that nobody would try to defend sentiments such as these, at least non of the people I know or interact with.

If folks want to defend those comments, or talk about context, try to mitigate what was said, that’s your right. Your outrage with Rev. Wright is understandable, but it seems some are enabling and possibly defending talk like Scheuer and JustAl promote because they perhaps feel that my statements against JustAl and Scheuer’s comments were directed at them and their ideology. That is an inference that you have drawn yourself, not that I have imposed on you

It seems the political gulf referred to regarding this Liberal “flawed way of thinking” comment even prevents any common ground on such outrageous statements from some people.

I didn’t realize the gap was that wide, I stand on my comments, and I don’t feel I have to defend them to anyone. There is much to legitimately disagree with, but when there is disagreement over comments regarding an attack on our country, or comments like “The only thing that will solve the problem of the moonbat liberals is a complete collapse of civilization, only when all people are reduced to the basic struggle to survive will this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally).” then I see no rational basis for further argument about if these comments are rational, reasonable, anti American, treasonist, or whatever. The comments go past issues of Party, Politics, or ideology, and go right to the heart of the very things Patriots of ANY political view should be able to recognize as just plain wrong.

Toothfairy, I have more deployments than I can recall, never refused deployment regardless of any political views from anyone and was not political at all on Active Duty. I was sent off on good missions as well as lost causes and politics was never a consideration. Contribution to the Success of Mission and Survival of my Teams as well as All applicable Laws, Treaties, UCMJ and Geneva Conventions was complied with in both word and spirit of the Law.

Cook could have and should have resigned his Commission. The Oath of Office as a Commissioned Officer was one He could not hold, obviously due to a lack of Sense of Duty. Just my Take on That.
Anyone Commissioned that broke political on me got relieved and reassigned. It is a voilation of the Oath and compromises missions.

Hey Mata…after doing some homework, Scheuer is as large a buffoon and a jackass as Ron Paul, Kuchinich or Al Gore.

Never heard of the guy but I do not do the research that a lot of folks do.

The Tenth Amendment is All about limits to Government. It gives America recourse against tyranny from a Federal Government that over reaches, becomes Royalty and was written by the Founding Fathers that had foresight but fears of the loss of Liberty, Freedom and Dignity that they fought, risked their lives for a century or two back. Some of the posters here got revisionist history for an education.

A few did not. Do you reckon that Obama could recite the Pledge of Allegiance from memory?
The American one. Could his Daughters?

Let the rock throwing begin with the usual rules… civility and just the facts like Joe Friday said on the black and white TV that I watched. Antenna vs Sat Dish. Digital Plasma vs a 12″ by 12″ set that
beat the daylights out of radio up here in Montana in my youth.

Moose, I get neighbors dogs that come on property and crap, chase my cattle and wolves now and then that are teeth first and lethal. You are like the stray dog that craps on my lawn because you were never taught better. I shoot wolves. The neighbors stray dogs get a 12 gauge rock salt dosage.

Old Trooper said: You are like the stray dog that craps on my lawn because you were never taught better.

mooseburger, the things you have not realized could fill several books and I have real work to do so get off the Kool Aid and realize that your ignorance and indoctrination are not My responsibility.

Your sense of reality just quite frankly puzzles the hell out of me. How anyone can have your mindset and live to adulthood outside of an Institutionalized setting is your mystery. Not mine.

Well Old Trooper, why are you troubling yourself on my account?

Saying “You are like the stray dog that craps on my lawn because you were never taught better.” implies that my folks didn’t do a good job…….how in the hell do you know that? Maybe they did a great job and I followed my own path, and if I am a screw up, it’s all on me….at any rate, respect for your service or not, don’t appreciate you bad mouthin’ my Parents to score some silly forum zinger. My Dad and Mom were fine folks that if I could be half what they were I would be a better man than I am now.

Because you have lost respect for folks you don’t like or disagree with Old Trooper, doesn’t mean I have lost my respect or even my respect for you and your service. 70% of your discussions here is all about you and your service, my Father served too, and he rarely talked about it, and he sure didn’t wear it like a flashy, shiny badge to draw attention to himself from others. He didn’t demand respect, he received it because he earned it. He died in ‘95, he’s not here to defend himself, but in his honor, I will tell you that he was a man who deserved YOUR respect Old Trooper, I bet you and him would have gotten along pretty well.

@mooseburger:

So, where’s your answer to my question? When will you show me where your buddies, the real crock of liars, have deplored J.Wright saying “G.Damn America,” and where they have deplored John Holdren’s belief in the need to forceably abort and sterilize American women, or at least where you have deplored it. (more than “belief,” because he actually called for it) I’ll bet you can’t on either count.

America had to have the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor before we woke up to the fact that with Europe and Asia in flames, we couldn’t sit back and think it would never affect us. That’s the historical fact. If someone before the war had said, “It’s going to take an attack on America for us to wake up.” that WOULD have been a realistic statement, not a wish that it happen. That sort of thing would be a commentary on the apathy of idiots like yourself who are dramatically increasing the chances of such a scenario, which is how it appeared in that tape. If he meant it any other way, as Mata’s material indicate he may, then for sure I deplore it. But that wasn’t clear from the context of the tape, or from what you or your C&L pals said, and unless YOU bring more proof than what you have, that alone is not an indictment.

Now, answer me about Wright and Holdren before you ask me any more questions.

@Aqua:

“Some actually accused Bush of helping plan the attacks of 9/11.”

Some space cadets still think we lied about going to the moon!
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/07/sad_but_true_vi.html

Great crew you have there, Moose.

moose: JustAl made his comment, and my comment was in response to his, and his comment in my view falls in line with Scheurer’s comment which I linked to. The folks who are worried more about Scheurer’s affiliations than his statement and also not touching with a ten foot pole the comments JustAl made are some of Y’all. I haven’t introduced anyone’s political viewpoint into the mix and feel the repulsive comments stand alone and speak for themselves.

Gawd… love it. Distract distract. It’s not *really* about who shares that “correct thinking”, you say. LOL Really? You didn’t introduce anyone’s “political viewpoint”? Flashback….

I just wanted to point out to you that you, Michael Scheuer, and the “Islamofascists” are all on the same side when it comes to hoping that America suffers a “complete collapse of civilization” so you can get rid of the “Flawed way of thinking”

Why don’t you go and enlist with your buddies, the Taliban, and take your correct thinking twin Michael Scheuer with you?

oops… I guess that “same side” means you and yours, right? Because Scheuer’s “correct thinking” buddies happen to include the liberal progressive Congress (who also blames US foreign policy for terrorist actions), as well as the left fringe and a good portion of the Democrat anti-war membership.

What is “correct thinking” and “same side” BUT “political viewpoints? And what “buddies” can you be talking about except those that share Scheuer’s beliefs? And I assure you, that’s not JustAl.

Then you say:

I don’t see it at all as framing anything toward an alternate point as you suggested Mata, just my straight up response to the comments in question and my lack of understanding how some folks can seemly defend those statements and not see them for what they are. That’s all.

Yep… distract, distract from the original point when it falls flat. You expect everyone “see” those words the way you interpret them. And if we don’t, you’ll just isolate and freeze it, pouring on the venom and dirty associations with bad guys. (Hey… I’m learning this game…)

But the way you see them is viewed thru an extreme political spectrum…. despite your “but but’s”.

First of all, if we were all required to condemn every a’hole on the planet, there would be little time left for anything else. People like Scheuer shouldn’t even register on anyone’s sonar screen. They condemn themselves adequately every time they open their mouths… even if once or twice in a lifetime they might happenstance upon a valid point. They don’t need my help to be seen as scum, and none of us owes you a litmus test.

Now let’s see if we can remove your “correct thinking” political spectrum 3D glasses. JustAl pointed out the light bulb won’t go on in the O’faithful brain until they’ve sunk themselves below the foul line of the socialist bog. Do I need to repeat that in a more politically correct way to break thru your brain pattern?

Does this statement require “condemnation” by you? Only when viewed in the political spectrum.

Is it factual? There is no other way to explain blindly accepting unfathomable debt for generations, based solely on faith in the Eunuch in Chief. To accept his words “this will work” as gospel requires ignoring history, performance of recent parallel systems, and the facts and figures placed before their eyes. Not to mention, his outright lies because he’s not read the bill before he speaks.

Yup… JustAl’s right and owes you nada. The only way liberals will turn that light bulb on to the repercussions of what they *think* they want is when it hits their wallets. And I’m pretty darned sure that most of this nation doesn’t want the economy Obama is “remaking” for us. However, by then it just may be too late to reverse.

To spin JustAl’s comment as anything other than highlighting the typical NIMBY American attitude is nothing more than an Alinsky distraction. Why? Because we don’t have enough time to condemn all the NIMBY types that inhabit the planet either.

You can’t pull out the bottom feeder, Scheuer, compare it to JustAl’s “liberal dim bulb” mentality, put them in the same “correct thinking” category…. and then claim you’re not talking “politics”. You read on crooks/liars that Scheuer was a right winger, and bought into it hook, line and sinker… then trawled that bait over here to spread the Alinsky spin machine using JustAl as a comrade in arms. At least you weren’t alone… Every dimwit with a C/L bookmark followed up with equally uninformed, sheeple comments to that pack of lies. Not one bubble head on that site knew who the heck Scheuer was, and what his beliefs on foreign policy were. Nope… uh uh.

Even after a patient, good hearted and oft-times frustrated Yonason tried to explain what I expressed as “just because we are best after a crisis doesn’t mean we pine for a crisis”, you still demand some sort of litmus test that makes the folks on this FA thread worthy of being considered your fellow American.

Personally, I think it’s a no brainer. American’s don’t often realize what a pickle they are in until the going gets tough… and then the tough get going. Very American trait. To recognize that as fact is hardly an attitude to be condemned.

But to continue to spin it as something more nefarious and demand “condemnation”, is truly a hallmark of the politically blind, emulating the Alinsky spin machine.

@ yonason
I think I know what you’re saying in your post. It kind of like this:

The TARP and Stimulus Spending are the wrong direction for the country. But it’s going to take 10% unemployement for America to wake up and see that.

Am I close?

yonason: I don’t know what more I can say about things, I asked you plenty of questions too, but you failed to respond, and I can understand that. It is difficult to reply to every foolish, diversionary or as you would say “Dead Bait” question that is asked. And since you didn’t respond to any of the questions I asked, I will take no reply as your response and move on, and I haven’t asked any more questions of you.

For some reason you think I have an issue to fight with you about abortion, but you are wrong. I have stated here on this forum in the past, and I will say it again, I am not pro abortion. I am against abortion of innocent lives.

As for Rev Wright, all you are trying to do is to create some division where none has been brought up by me in this thread. We may agree on that or not, but it doesn’t have a thing to do with JustAl and his buddy who wants Osama to attack America. If you want to email me off group and discuss some issues, I’ll be happy to do that. Email Mike here at FA and he has my email, and I give my permission for Mike to provide it to you yonason if you want top talk about abortion, Rev Wright, or whatever topics you like.

Aqua said: “I guess your out for that is to say Bush didn’t really win the first election he stole it. Because the left lost their minds. Some actually accused Bush of helping plan the attacks of 9/11.
Right now Obama is shoving unadulterated socialism. But many governors pulled the 10th amendment out and dusted it off for Bush as well. Some of his unfunded mandates were shoved down the states throats and they let him know they weren’t swallowing.
Conservatives don’t like the feds in our lives, no matter what letter is behind their name.”

As for Bush in 2000, the Supreme court ruled, the election went into the books, and I don’t see that as an out in any way. The left lost their minds for sure, but they would have been better served getting their house in order and dealing with reality than crying and crying foul for as long as they did. Maybe had they tended to the reality rather than crying foul and whining for so long, they would have gotten their act together 4 years sooner. Maybe the Republican Party should do that now too. A legitimate discussion about issues is one matter, to rehash conspiracy theories, although entertaining sometimes, is to try to prove the unprovable.

As for the 10th amendment, thank you, that is what I wanted to know, if this is just an Obama reaction, or if this is a principled response that is being held because of the direction of the country for many years. To me, the Federal Government has found many creative ways around the 10th amendment, and the States willingly comply with it on their own accord. A good example is the speed limit laws, when the Federal govt wanted it at 55mph, they tied in the funding for highway construction to compliance with the speed limit laws. The states had every recourse to say, we don’t want your money and we will keep the speed limit where we decide it should be. But the States have played along with the Fed for the most part thru thick and thin. I think when push comes to shove they always will too. And I don’t disagree that the States should be able to take back the rights that the Constitution granted, I think they can if they want to forgo much of the Federal Money that comes with strings attached. If some States decide to do that, you won’t hear me griping about it either.

Mata: Comendable defense of the indefensable. If you need to make excuses for those comments, it is your right to do it. If you need to jump in and defend those who were doing a poor job of defending themselves or refuse to come back and defend their comments that is your right as well.

The comments expressed by JustAl were on this forum and do not represent every lunatic nutbag on the planet, nor did my response. You can toss out all the Alinsky, Rev Wright Socialist phrases you like, it doesn’t take away the fact that the comments in question belong to folks who would be better served going somewhere that wants America attacked as much as they themselves opined would serve as an endgame with some greater purpose achieved amidst the carnage.

You choose to defend the comments and provide context and excuses for them, or throw them back at me like somehow I am in some agreement with some purported liberal buddy. Smoke screen.
You choose to defend the comments
I do not

Point of Order please.

@mooseburger:

We may agree on that or not, but it doesn’t have a thing to do with JustAl and his buddy who wants Osama to attack America.

Pardon my intrusion into your poo slinging episode, but please point out to me how JustAl is connected with Scheurer anywhere other than in your own mind.

I’ve just reread all of JustAl’s comments since he first appeared here. Guess what? No Scheurer. Nothing even close to that.

You set up the false premise and then attack based on that false premise. That’s a classic straw man Moose.

Clumsily executed, classic nonetheless.

You should be ashamed.

yonason said: “Of course you don’t, because that’s what happens when you run out of lies.”

You seem to very well know what happens when you run out of lies, that is why Mata had to jump in and bail you out. Now that you have had a good breather while she covered for you and corrected you, you have had some time to think up some more.

I have committed no lies here
Your non belief in my sincerity does not change anything on my end
It doesn’t matter if you think I believe the comments by JustAl and Scheuer are bad or not.
Doesn’t matter to me if the comments were made by liberals or conservatives
If you feel like you need to defend those comments, have at it. It’s your right to do it.
I just disagree with you

Aye Chihuahua
54Reply to this comment

Point of Order please.

@mooseburger:

We may agree on that or not, but it doesn’t have a thing to do with JustAl and his buddy who wants Osama to attack America.

Pardon my intrusion into your poo slinging episode, but please point out to me how JustAl is connected with Scheurer.

I’ve read all of JustAl’s comments since he first appeared here. Guess what? No Scheurer. Nothing even close to that.

You set up the false premise and then attack based on that false premise. That’s a classic straw man Moose.

Clumsily executed, classic nonetheless.

You should be ashamed.

Aye, point taken. However, there seems to be a double standard when the most radical elements of a Liberal and anti American position are attached to things that I have posted time and again, and no one calls for a point of order. If I post something, invariably I hear back from many any number of leftist, socialist associations being attached to me. And now I have been called a liar. Yeah, I am going to defend myself, and perhaps it is getting out of hand.

I stated: “JustAl made his comment, and my comment was in response to his, and his comment in my view falls in line with Scheurer’s comment which I linked to. The folks who are worried more about Scheurer’s affiliations than his statement and also not touching with a ten foot pole the comments JustAl made are some of Y’all. I haven’t introduced anyone’s political viewpoint into the mix and feel the repulsive comments stand alone and speak for themselves.”

I did say:” I just wanted to point out to you that you, Michael Scheuer, and the “Islamofascists” are all on the same side when it comes to hoping that America suffers a “complete collapse of civilization” so you can get rid of the “Flawed way of thinking”

Why don’t you go and enlist with your buddies, the Taliban, and take your correct thinking twin Michael Scheuer with you?”

That is exactly how I feel about JustAl’s comment, and that is my view.

The key phrase is “in my view” and that is the position I took, and that is the position I still have. You are welcome to disagree with that. You Aye, know most folks here much better than I do, but I personally don’t see how folks can make excuses or provide favorable context for either comment, but that’s my take.

Apologies for any mudslinging, and to you yonason for returning fire on your charge of lying
No apologies for my condemnation of the comments regarding “flawed thinkers” or Osama attacking again.

moose, INRE some of your comments:

1: “dead bait” is my phrase. do not hang that on Yon

2: Yon *has* patiently, repeatedly and (IMHO) foolishly taken your “bait” and responded to your inability to read the English language. I “defend” no one, as you lay out as part of your BS (ala “defending the indefensible). I merely point out your obvious game.

You have a choice to define who you are. You admit you play the Alinsky game, which makes you part of the plan. Or you are so unbelievably stupid that you need an interpreter for the English language. Take whatever choice suits your mood or situation. I have patience for both.. to an extent. And just to let you know, on this thread, you’ve reached that threshhold.

3: the “diversion” tactics were begat by you with Scheuer and political condemnation. Your counter diversion tactics are observed, and recorded… with a great deal of amusement, BTW

Revelation for you: My one moment of “taking your bait” was not to genuinely “defend the indefensible”, as you say. (So I congratulate you for taking the bite yourself).

ADDED: In case you missed it, here is your moment being reeled in for the fry pan…

You choose to defend the comments and provide context and excuses for them, or throw them back at me like somehow I am in some agreement with some purported liberal buddy. Smoke screen.
You choose to defend the comments
I do not

Checkmate. There was nothing that could be said using all combinations of politically correct language about Americans confronting crises as opposed to *recognizing* a looming crisis that affects their behavior. Parse, parse parse for a politically damning purpose.

END ADDED

My motive was to prove your sole intent…. that there was no arguing elementary language skills and social logic with you. Parsing sentences is what you live for. But it only works when you have an inferior audience. This is all about your Alinsky tactics to smear phrasing beyond all logical distortion in order to advance a political agenda.

And today, you do not win. Posterity reads this thread, and they know who Scheuer is, and with whom he aligns… you and ilk

Unfortunately, the good hearted Yon needs this lesson every once in awhile in order to conserve his stellar energy for more worthy objectives. I find it endearing he actually believes there is hope for you, and thereby engages in your low level, obvious games.

Me, on the other hand, have long recognized there is no hope for you until you – personally – get smacked with reality in your face. There is no arguing with a brick wall. It has one function… to be a brick wall and no wherewithall to know why. The only question I actually have about you is… is it by deliberate political design? Or just that you are fully drugged with socialist political opiate?

As Aye would say…. “thank you for playing”. My job here is done.

1: you lay bait
2: I pointed out you lay bait
3: you confirmed you lay bait

@mooseburger:

. . . still awaiting those refs . . . (not holding my breath) . . .

Mataa said: “Such a good little o’faithful/progressive devotee you are. *Always* someone else’s fault… even tho it had nothing to do with your retort.”

I’ll take responsibility for my words here, where is JustAl at to take responsibility for his?
And why do you have to be a shill for him in his stead?

yonason: I guess I’m the weiner the world awaited…..

(and yes Mata, that IS set up bait for jokes at my expense)

Mata: It is all of the above coupled with the statement “this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally)” meaning Liberals, or however distasteful to some, you could substitute the term “fellow Americans who exhibit the flawed way of thinking”, at least that’s how I read into it.

And to finally address the “bait” issue:
1. yes I do lay bait
2. I don’t mind that you point out I lay bait
3. Yes, I will again confirm that I lay bait
4. I periodically check the bait
5. I sit back and open a Beer
6. I feel a tug on the line…..
7. Damn, friggin’ baits gone, open another Beer and Rebait (the original Rebait program)
8. Outa bait, Outa beer, pack up and go home
9. Sometimes here in Southern Indiana we run a trot line
10. Carpus Delectie, or if that falls through, I visit my good friends Sam and Patty

Aqua:
Let me assure you that I am not in any conspiracy to work your or any other blog thru deceptive practices. I am pretty straight up with my views on things, try to be open minded, and if I’m shown to be wrong, I’ll take my lumps, feel like I have learned something, and move on from there. If I think I’m right, I’ll stand my ground. Sometimes folks just have a right to be wrong about some things, and while not an admirable trait, it is an American right to be that way if you like.

I offered before that if further discussion is wanted with me on issues, that Mike (Mike’s America) does have my email address. I don’t care to see it flooded with hate, bile and venom, but I will extend the same invite to you as I did yonason, if you, Aqua, want to email me off group for a civil discussion or to satisfy your curiosity if I am a “plant”, ask Mike for my email and I have no problem with Mike giving it to you.

As for the issue of “planted” comments on Conservative blogs, that probably goes both ways, but the best way to deal with that is to either denounce the hateful or anti American comments with a public “verbal beat down”, or simply edit inappropriate comments out of the threads. There are plenty of nutjobs on both side of the fence, things are extreem enough as it is today. It is important to not only call the hateful or anti American out for what it is, but also to protect whatever good name, values and beliefs you hold so that hateful or inciteful crap doesn’t go out to the masses with your name attached.

@mooseburger:

“yonason: I guess I’m the weiner the world awaited…..”

No, that would be Obama, just that a lot of people, yourself apparently included, haven’t yet realized it; and the only way some will is to be “mugged by reality.” (essentially what Scheuer sounded to me like he was saying) And, even then some won’t come to their senses, but the rest of us who have will then know who they are, and never trust them again . . . in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that’s not how things work, which is why Scheuer was wrong about what he said (as I DID alude to in my posts “defending” that remark, …as I understood it).

Actually, it wasn’t your criticism of Scheuer that set me off. It was your misplaced faith in “the one.” If you hadn’t been so pro Obama I would have probably let it go, or at least not gone so postal on you.

I got upset because of your faith in Obama , despite the volumes of information available about his negatives, which are very negative and very numerous, while the positive side of the ledger is virtually empty, containing only the false hopes of those he’s conned and his promises that will never be fulfilled.

When you paint us with the Lefty liables, and then have the nerve to preach to us that we aren’t being patient enough with Obama, that’s just too much.

Obama is just doing to the country what he did to his home district in Illinois. They were worse off after his 7 years “representing” them (screwing them over), and we will fare no better. I have no desire to “wait and see what will happen,” because by then it will be too late. As Doug Ross said about that, “Now extend that kind of failure to the entire United States.” So, now you know what you stepped in when you said, “let us hope and pray that Osama can get our country back on track! “, (…and what I stepped in when I read “Obama” in place of “Osama.” – natural mistake, though)

As to the States invoking their rights under the 10th amendment, that’s all well and good. But the fact that they think they have to doesn’t bode well. Even if they are right, the system is only as good as those running it. SCOTUS doesn’t seem to have much backbone, Obama has the executive branch sewn up, and Congress has been hijacked by Loony Leftists. So, when it comes to demanding our Constitutional rights, we still have to rely on forces outside our control, forces many times greater than we are (If the military follows the Lefties, then it will be very bloody if we resist). If it does come to that, we could still win, but only under certain conditions that I don’t yet see developing. I’ve posted on that before, and don’t want to say any more about it at the moment. Still, I think Obama and his pirates have put us in a position that requires action to counter his vile socialist Putsch, and invoking the 10th is certainly one counter measure that can not be passed over.