The Dishonesty of ‘Real Socialism Has Never Been Tried’

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The recent film by Agnieszka Holland, Mr. Jones, portrays the Soviet Russians’ attempt in the 1930s — with the assistance of sympathetic Western journalists like Walter Duranty — to cover up the famine caused by collectivization of agriculture in Ukraine. The film is a heart-wrenching and damning account of the Soviet experiment — and of the dishonesty that enabled it.

And yet, 87 years after Gareth Jones showed the world the crimes of socialism, there are still Western enablers who engage in a different kind of coverup of the same facts. As a result, a growing number of young people consider themselves socialists, and socialist politicians have risen in prominence. One was almost nominated as the Democratic Party’s candidate for president of the United States.

It is only thirty years since socialist regimes collapsed economically around the globe, leaving in their wake a death toll of tens of millions. We have seen the same pattern repeated in Venezuela in only the last twenty years. How do today’s defenders of socialism try to cover up this history and justify the ideology that supported such murderous regimes?



One tactic that today’s socialists employ is to portray the lessons of history and world affairs as irrelevant to their cause. They claim that the Soviet Union, Communist China, Communist Cuba, and today’s regime in Venezuela are not real examples of socialism at all. Real socialism, you may have heard them say, has never been tried.

What makes people think this is true? What do they mean by “socialism” and is their view even plausible?

What is “socialism”?

Socialism, in a standard definition, means public ownership of the means of production, which implies the abolishing of private property and ending the capitalist system of free trade and free markets. This is often understood to mean state ownership of the means of production.

By that standard, the Soviet Union, Communist China, and other authoritarian regimes all count as “socialist”: in every case, insurgents seized control of governments which then expropriated private farms, factories and shops from their capitalist owners — many of whom lost not only their property, but their lives. What’s more, these insurgents were led by figures (Lenin, Mao, Castro, etc.) that were explicitly committed to socialist ideology.

The economic failure, famine, and bloodshed suffered by each of these countries flowed directly from the same policies advocated by today’s socialists. Just as socialists demand, businesses were torn from the hands of their creators, those who both knew how to produce and who had a personal financial stake in improving their ability to produce. These businesses were then managed by bureaucrats who lacked both of these qualifications, and who also lacked the tool of the free market pricing system to calculate how much of which goods to produce. Production decisions were determined not with an eye to creating value above cost, but to the demands of arbitrary edicts from central planners. It is no accident that this system created shortages and starvation, and that regimes had to crush the resulting dissent to retain power.

Socialists try to insulate the system they advocate from this evidence of failure by using a talking point that (as we shall see) they have used since the beginning of their movement. They put a spin on the “public ownership of the means of production” definition. Real socialism, they say, doesn’t mean state control of the economy; it means control by “the people,” especially by the workers.

For instance, Bhaskar Sunkara, editor of Jacobin and author of The Socialist Manifesto, claims that real socialism means “democratic” control of the workplace by worker collectives. He claims that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was not a socialist society because it did not involve democratic control.1 Likewise, Nathan Robinson, editor of Current Affairs and author of Why You Should Be a Socialist, claims that, for similar reasons, none of the authoritarian socialist regimes of the twentieth century were socialist, and claims to “hate government and capitalism alike.”2 Richard Wolff, who has been described as “America’s most prominent Marxist economist,” agrees.3 He argues that the Soviet Union was really an example of “state capitalism”: while the nominally socialist party controlled the state, the state was “still capitalist in the employer-employee organization of its economy” because “a minority of persons . . . [the central planners] functioned as employers of an employee majority.”4

Using their definition of “socialism,” these thinkers would have us believe that since state control of the economy is not control by “the people,” no full-scale socialist political system has ever existed in history. If true, this would allow them to excuse their ideology from any responsibility for the murder and oppression of the brutal, allegedly “socialist” systems of the twentieth (and twenty-first) century. It also allows them to pose as the torchbearers of a noble ideal that has simply been corrupted by political operators of the past.

Is there any plausibility to the claim that “socialism” doesn’t really mean state control of the economy, but something else? Are today’s socialists really envisioning a wholly new system than what the revolutionaries of the past actually implemented? Or are they simply playing games with the word “socialism” to avoid the obvious facts?

Fantasy speculation about the role of the state

Not everyone proposing a novelty is indulging in fantasy. A newly envisioned invention, like an airplane, can be based on known facts about birds, kites, and gliders. But even then, experiments are needed to prove the efficacy of the idea. And if the proposal is, say, a perpetual motion machine, which has no experimental basis and goes against the laws of physics, the proposal is selling a fantasy.

Although the proposal that “real” socialism doesn’t require the use of state power might sound new or innovative to the uninitiated, a few questions and a little knowledge of history are sufficient to show it is just as much a fantasy as a perpetual motion machine.

First, note that the socialists paper over the coercion and even violence that would obviously need to happen to expropriate private property from peaceful citizens to set up their system in the first place.  (The mask drops when they start advocating “lawbreaking and sabotage” as worthy tactics in revolutionary social change.5) By itself this calls into question any assertion that socialism can be implemented without bloodshed: socialist ends cannot be detached from socialist means.

But even if we could imagine that private property holders were simply persuaded to give up their holdings peacefully, the notion that the ideal socialist system would work without coercion or oppression is hard to imagine, if it is even coherently meaningful to begin with. Consider Richard Wolff’s explanation for how a system of worker co-ops would gradually wean itself from the need for a state:

An economy based on worker co-ops would revolutionize the relationship between the state and the people. In their capacity as a self-employed collectivity, workers would occupy the spot traditionally held by the workplace in state-workplace relations and interactions. . . . The workers would collectively and democratically hold the purse strings to which the state would have to appeal. The state would thus depend on citizens and workers rather than the other way around. . . . The state would have fewer ways and means to impose its own momentum and goals upon citizens or workplaces. To that extent, the state’s “withering away” would become more immediately achievable than in any other variety of socialism known thus far.6

As I’ve argued elsewhere at greater length, the allegation that “democratic control” ensures freedom from coercion and oppression is an old fallacy that turns on an equivocation between a government with elected representatives and a society run by majority rule. The latter is what socialists advocate when they claim that factories should be run by workers, regardless of what the factory’s original creators have to say about it. This constitutes a direct violation of the rights of a minority of individuals. So if workers really do end up holding “the purse strings” of the factories and the power to make the state appeal to them, it makes little sense to say that the state would “wither away” as an entity independent of the workers.7 Rather, the workers would in effect be running a state.8

When Wolff is pressed to provide a real-world example of the system he envisions, he and other socialists often point to the Mondragon Corporation, a Spanish worker-owned manufacturer of a variety of industrial and consumer goods.9 But Mondragon is an international corporation that sells its products to private firms all over the globe, and employs an increasing number of foreign workers who are not members of the collective. At the same time, its workers increasingly depend on pensions from the Spanish state.10 Invoking the Mondragon example evades the question of whether a company like Mondragon could survive in the absence of a more general capitalist system that buys its products and provides market prices by which to calculate resource allocation, and the system of state-sanctioned private property rights that makes this possible.11 It also evades the question of whether a company run “democratically” (unlike most corporations) could exist in the absence of a coercive state that taxes capitalists to fund worker pensions.

The idea that real socialism involves social control of the economy without the state is not new, but you need to be aware of some history to realize this. It goes back at least as far as 1877, when Frederick Engels claimed in Anti-Dühring that after the proletariat seizes control of the state and thereby the means of production, the state would “wither away” or “die out.”12 Evading the important role of a state in protecting peaceful coexistence among individuals by protecting their rights, Marx and Engels held that the only role of a state is to enforce the exploitation of one class by another. Working from this fantastic premise, they deduced without evidence that once the state comes to represent the proletariat, class distinctions would disappear and, with them, the need for the state.13Lenin toed the same line in a lengthier work of no greater depth, but since he was himself a political operative who needed to rationalize his revolutionary actions, he argued that state control of the means of production was necessary as a transitional measure on the way to the achievement of real socialism.14 The same argument was then invoked for years by Stalin as he continued to starve and murder people in the name of eventually achieving the ideal of real socialism.15

All of this means that Lenin and Stalin and the other founders of the brutal Marxist regimes justified their actions using the exact same fantasy as today’s socialists do. They promised that the system they advocated would eventually eliminate state oppression as well. We saw what it actually delivered.

Why should we believe socialists today who also claim that their proposals to nationalize industries will take us further from and not closer to the specter of the Soviet catastrophe? They offer no better evidence than hucksters who sell perpetual motion machines. In fact what they’re doing is much worse, both because they actively evade the evidence, and because what they sell isn’t just dysfunctional — it’s deadly.

The real meaning of socialism

Socialism means public ownership of the means of production. But to understand what this means in practical reality — and why it cannot mean what the socialists propose — we must appreciate what “public ownership” actually refers to.

There is no magical entity called “the public.” A society is composed of individual human beings. In reality, the only mechanism by which the actions of an entire society can be coordinated is by means of a government. And so the only way for anything resembling “the public” to systematically deprive capitalists of private property and to abolish capitalist free trade is for the state to do it.  Every socialist acknowledges this, whether they advocate violent revolution to establish a collectivist state or a majority vote to establish the same.

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Jordan B Peterson on “But That Wasn’t Real Communism, Socialism, or Marxism!”
It’s 7 minutes, but worth every second.

Yeah, it has been tried and by better people than these puppet masters to antifa and blm.

No society has every really tried applying the real teachings of Jesus, either. That doesn’t mean true Christianity doesn’t have some very good principles that should be in much wider application.

@Greg: Sorry, Greg, Jesus pointed out that his Kingdom was no part of this world.
All manmade nations stand in opposition to Jesus’ Kingdom.
His followers knew this as he spoke about his Kingdom VS Caesar’s.
Many nations have tried to claim to be Christian but all of them have fallen way short.
Only individuals can be Christians, not countries.

Back to socialism, the concept is based on lies.
That’s why so many millions have died under socialist rulers.
Read up on the concept of nomenklatura.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura

However, that which they have tried has successfully killed over 100 million people. And with planned butcherhood, the numbers keep increasing.

As I understand things, all that follows depends upon our conduct in this world. Imagining that we can separate who we are from what we do is a way that we deceive ourselves. We should think very carefully about the motives of those who encourage us to do so.

@July 4th American:

Capitalism has not been casualty-free, either. Either extreme can become evil. In the real world, the best path is in the middle.

@Greg: Wow. Like clockwork, you defend Marxism…by using Christianity.

You people are parasites. We defeated you in the 20th Century. We’ll defeat you in the 21st.

As I understand things, all that follows depends upon our conduct in this world

Thank you for telegraphing that you understand Christianity.

Christianity is personal. Marxism is collectivist and barbaric.

Do you support Marxism?

@July 4th American: The devil shows it’s hand every time greg posts. How interesting.

@Nathan Blue, #8:

Sorry, but Ayn Rand isn’t my idea of a great moral teacher, nor does unrestrained crony capitalism as exemplified by the Trump administration and it’s many gluttonous enablers pass the sniff test. Trump or Marxism is not actually the choice that the voters must make in November.

The presentation of false dichotomies is a fundamentally dishonest means of persuasion.

@Greg:

The presentation of false dichotomies is a fundamentally dishonest means of persuasion

And yet, that was your lead in: invoking Christianity when Marxism is the topic.

A dishonest and weak means of persuasion, indeed.

Rand was focused on the need for competence in society. Morality was not her forte, but she did call out despots using morality as a false idol to gain power.

That’s you.

greg is a Chinese troll. I’m convinced. No one in their right mind other than people part of the CCP or those working for them would defend Marxism.

A small faction using the jealous rabble to steal wealth from the wealthy. How unoriginal.

The candidate I support has never used the flag or the Bible as cheap photo-op props. The candidate who has publicly attacked the honesty and integrity of Joe Biden certainly isn’t someone who should be throwing such stones. The evidence of his past is out there. His current behavior is on public display. Members of his own family have warned us.

Morality and ethics actually are a central issue in the 2020 presidential election.

An economy based on worker co-ops would revolutionize the relationship between the state and the people.

Isn’t that sort of… capitalism? “The people” running the businesses?

The problem with socialism is that it inevitably requires force to enact it. Sure, there are lazy and incompetent people who currently have no ambition but to do nothing and they believe supporting socialism will take from the working people and give to… THEM. They haven’t done their homework on their chose ideology; THEY will be workers, too, and being unskilled and unintelligent, they will make up the LABOR force. Aside from them, those who have lived in freedom and opportunity, accepting the government tell them where to work and what to do with their now worthless lives isn’t going to fly. That’s when the force is required; and to clarify the thinking of those who merely sought a free ride.

Socialism needs a healthy host. Socialism is not a start-up; it must have a wealthy host to live off of until the failure brings it down. Under capitalism, the individual has a far better than even chance of succeeding. Under socialism, that is decided by someone else; you are actually guaranteed you will succeed no better than anyone else.

@Greg:

No society has every really tried applying the real teachings of Jesus, either.

That’s because of human nature, the same force that makes socialism a guaranteed failure. For, no matter what, someone invariably has to be in charge and that ALWAYS leads to abuse. It’s happened in every case. Then, the greed for the life that is denied by the leadership to others sustains the government and socialism.

Crony capitalism reached its zenith under Obama. That is a perfect example of how socialism works, how those in power soak up the wealth and try to perpetuate the system to maintain that power. Meanwhile, his jobs were part time and low paying; widening the gap between the classes. Remember, thanks to Obama, the “wealth gap” grew, not shrank, under Obama. That’s how socialism always works.

There’s a reason that whenever a socialist government needs ideas, they have to steal them.

@Greg:

The candidate I support has never used the flag or the Bible as cheap photo-op props.

Then you are clearly not supporting Bargain Basement Joe Biden as he has used his “professed” Catholicism as a talking point ever since he first ran for office, oh, those many 47 years ago.

Bargain Basement Joe is no Catholic and should be excommunicated.

Morality and ethics actually are a central issue in the 2020 presidential election.

So when will your lame stream media start reporting that Jill Biden’s ex-husband claims she cheated on him with Joe Biden?

I’m looking forward to the GOP convention. I’m guessing that once again Trump is going to claim there’s a republican healthcare plan that’s better, cheaper, available to everyone, and ready to roll out, that the COVID-19 response was just what the doctor ordered and a miracle solution is right around the corner, that the economy will soon be booming again, that working families can look forward to having their tax cuts extended, and that there are grand plans for infrastructure renewal, all while bringing deficits under control. All we need to do is give him another four years.

@Greg: He’ll state the facts; Obama wrecked this nation and Trump has already repaired most of the damage. Elect Biden and the damage will be revisited, only worse.

Obama wrecked this nation and Trump has already repaired most of the damage.

You might want to check the news. The damage that the next president must somehow deal with has already been done. It happened at some point between the 75th consecutive month of economic growth that Barack Obama left office on and now.

The further Trump has extended his hold the worse things have become, and all he’s actually offering now is more of the same, with the addition of even more crazy conspiracy theory than before.

That’s reality.

@Greg: The more you post, the less you have to say.

Biden is corrupt. Trump is flawed, but effective.

The election is already done. Focus on 2024.

Please address post #10, you duplicitous Chinese troll.

The democrat party of JFK may have embraced religion but the leftist controlled democrat party of today has abandoned any assemblance of religion.

As Voltaire said, “if GOD did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him”.

He does not seem to say here whether he thinks God actually exists, but rather he argues merely that belief in God is a good thing and atheism is bad for society.

This statement was made as part of his larger argument that the existence of God and/or belief in God are beneficial and necessary for civilized society to function.

The unhinged leftist wing of the democrat party has no connection to Religion. Only the chinese troll greg would argue that the rioters in Portland and elsewhere are based in traditional religion. They are based in religion, it is the religion of communisim, socialism and marxism.

They could not say the Pledge of Allegiance without omitting God from the pledge during the lunatic dnc convention.

@Greg:

You might want to check the news. The damage that the next president must somehow deal with has already been done.

Yeah… by the Democrats and their political terrorists. If the next President is the current President, it WILL be dealt with. If it is Biden, it will only continue and get worse.

Obama’s economy was lethargic and weak, jobs were part time and low paying. In short, it stunk. Bad. Trump brought back the good jobs Obama promised he had eliminated forever.

@July 4th American:

The unhinged leftist wing of the democrat party has no connection to Religion.

Political power is their religion. It is all that matters to them, power over the rights of the people. Control and oppression. Faith gets in the way of that and that is why the Democrats are trying to eliminate it.

@Nathan Blue:

Biden is corrupt. Trump is flawed, but effective.

That’s the tale Trump tells, but it’s been well established that he’s a inveterate liar. That’s one of his “flaws”.

@Greg: It’s established he has been one of the most effective leaders we’ve ever had.

August 24, 2020 – More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

Unfortunately, the effects haven’t turned out to be as advertised.

@Greg:

I bet you’re super pleased that the nation’s leading white supremacist, Richard Spencer, is voting for Biden.

“I plan to vote for Biden and a straight democratic ticket. It’s not based on “accelerationism” or anything like that; the liberals are clearly more competent people.”

@Greg: Hehe. I think the millions of blacks and former Leftists that just can’t take anymore of the Democrats’ lies will handily negate any non-existent “bump” you think Biden got from a few RINOs who already hated Trump.

This isn’t about Democrat vs Republican, and I like how you are desperate to make it about that.

It’s about Trump/free Americans vs. Marxists, like you. The Republicans are irrelevant. I voted for Trump BECAUSE he was going to shake up both parties, and he did.

And when you have lie about Trump’s “lies”, that’s not really and argument.

Back to the issues at hand.

DO YOU REFUTE THAT MARXISM/SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM IS BAD AND HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE, TO HORRIBLE ENDS, AND…

WHY WOULD I VOTE FOR BIDEN OVER TRUMP?

Bonus:

WHAT HAS TRUMP LIED ABOUT??? GIVE ME SOMETHING REAL, NOT YOUR OWN LIES BASED IN PARTISAN RHETORIC.

WHAT DID HE LIE ABOUT?

@retire05, #24:

Spencer is a well-known neo-Nazi, anti-semitic white supremacist. The Biden campaign promptly rejected his endorsement. There’s no way in hell Spencer would actually support Biden or his platform. He would sooner drink poison.

August 24, 2020 – Biden Campaign Rejects Richard Spencer Endorsement, Condemns Views as ‘Absolutely Repugnant’

@Greg: Biden has made racist remarks that probably appeal to Spencer.

Joe Biden, stopping to talk with a homeless man outside a Georgetown theater where he’d gone to see a movie with his granddaughter. The candid photo was taken on March 8, 2018.

It’s the little stuff that defines who we are.

@Greg:

Doesn’t matter that Bargain Basement Joe rejected the endorsement, at least not according to your standards applied to Donald Trump when it came to David Duke who Trump didn’t even know. But then, your hypocrisy is well known already.

Looks like Biden, who is worth mega-bucks, is giving the man pocket change. Whattsa matter? Joe couldn’t afford some folding money for a homeless man?

The linked article from 2018 explains what occurred. It’s quite short, with no big words.

Rashid has experienced homelessness for some time now and when he saw Biden exiting the movie theater last Thursday evening, he asked him for some money so he could buy a sandwich.

Biden obliged — and then he stayed to talk.

“He didn’t think I recognized him,” Rashid said of the former dignitary. As they spoke, Rashid shared of the struggles he has been experiencing in receiving assistance from the Department of Veterans Affairs, specifically with procuring a housing voucher that would enable him to receive decent, safe and sanitary housing — leaving behind a life on the streets.

It was then that Biden went back into the theater for a pen and paper and jotted down a phone number. It was a personal contact who could assist in helping Rashid. As Biden handed him the slip of paper, a bystander snapped a photo on his phone’s camera — and the rest, as they say in our digital age, is recent history.

@Greg: Gosh, and someone just happened to have a camera. All theater. Or asking where his son could score some coke. He proved as VP he didn’t care about working people. His and Obama’s economic policies were disastrous for the middle class while their cronies got wealthier.

@retire05: And how do we know that, like with the anti-Semitic Linda Sarsour, he didn’t call Spencer later and privately apologize?

Gosh, and someone just happened to have a camera.

The year was 2018. Everybody who carried a cell phone had a camera. Even my $29 flip-phone had a camera.

Back in 2020: Former RNC chair Michael Steele joins anti-Trump group

@Greg: Nevertheless, a staged event. Oh, and Biden is an idiot. Whenever he actually is in control of his own speech, he lies.

Trumpista rage pumpkin Kimberly Guilfoyle was simultaneously the funniest and the scariest act of the evening.

@Deplorable Me, #34:

Nevertheless, a staged event.

There no indication of any sort that anything about it was staged. Trump supporters just can’t deal with the fact that Biden is fundamentally a good man, while Donald Trump is the leader of a pack of skunks.

@Greg: I thought Guilfoyle gave a great, impassioned speech. Too bad for you Democrats have no one that can give such a speech without lying.

There no indication of any sort that anything about it was staged.

Nah, just Biden stopping to talk with a homeless guy while a camera records away. Totally spontaneous and honest. As much as anything else in the Demokrat party.

Yeah, a “good man” that accused the truck driver involved in the accident that killed his wife of being “drunk”. A sweetheart that said desegregation would turn schools into “racial jungles”. A swell guy that raised a whoremongering coke-head and enables him by using extortion to stop an investigation that might have cost him his $80,000 a month money-for-nothing-get-your-chicks-for-free position.

@Greg: I watched it. It was all a highlight. People FOR America instead of hating it.

A refreshing change from America hating democrats

@Deplorable Me:

If you’re wondering if Democrats are soiling their Hanes knowing that Bargain Basement Joe is about to go down, all you had to do is watch the melt down of Donna Brazile on Fox this morning. She was absolutely apoplectic and tried to put words into Tammy Bruce’s mouth. Bruce was having none of it but Brazile wouldn’t shut up and talked over everyone. It was pure comedy gold watching Brazile melt into a little puddle after she forfeited her credibility a long time ago.

@retire05: She was just following the Democrat playbook, when they can’t provide a better policy for Americans, play that race card! Shout down the opposition. Lie.

I appreciate Fox having liberal voices on to provide the liberal views, but why they employ Brazile, who is a cheat and a liar, is beyond me. Unless it is to show exactly what an example of a Democrat actually looks like.

@July 4th American:

A refreshing change from America hating democrats

Donald Trump is not America.

America is rejecting the harris/sanders/biden ticket.

@Greg: Trump is far more an accurate representation of what America is than racist, corrupt Biden and racist, lying, anti-religion Harris.

@Greg: How unsurprising: our resident Marxist troll is still yapping in a vain attempt to obscure the point of the article.

MARXISM DOESN’T WORK.

Donald Trump is not America.

True. I AM AMERICA, AND I GET TO VOTE.

Biden is not America.
George Floyd is not America.

WE are America…not just your silly Marxist faction that is gasping for breath.

@July 4th American:

A refreshing change from America hating democrats

Agreed. Dems rely on using jealously and poverty to incite a mob and use them for their own fodder and ends.

SOCIALISM HAS BEEN TRIED AND IT HAS FAILED. CHINA IS THE LAST ENDURING EXAMPLE.

Herschel Walker and Tim Scott: two of the best reasons black should (and overwhelmingly will) vote for Trump.

Such a hopeful message the RNC has given, in stark contrast to the mean-spirited and platform-free ramblings of the DNC.

@Nathan Blue, #47:

How unsurprising: our resident Marxist troll is still yapping in a vain attempt to obscure the point of the article.

The topic is nothing more than a diversion intended to cover a lie that propagandists are attempting to sell to get Trump reelection. The real point isn’t to enumerate the failings of Marxism and Communism, which anyone with a basic understanding of modern world history already understands. The real point is to conflate the Marxism and Communism with the Democratic Party and the imaginary menace of Joe Biden. The Democratic Party isn’t Marxist, Joe Biden isn’t Marxist, and neither am I.

This false conflation is one of the essential lies that comprise Trump’s entire reelection pitch. Selling lies is essential, because there’s no way in hell Donald Trump can successfully run on the basis of his actual record. His time in office has been an endless series of scandals, overlapping criminal investigations, incompetent responses, a merry-go-round ride of personnel changes in an effort to keep a step ahead of close inspection, and growing civil unrest, all combined with fiscally irresponsible tax cuts and stimulus policies that produced a predictable economic binge, but were guaranteed to blow everything to bits the first time it was seriously stress tested. That’s how we came to the present moment, which coincides with a once-every-four-years option for the voters to opt for a change in direction.

Given the news, exercising that constitutional right to make a change might be a very wise decision.

@Greg: The DNC has embraced Marxism. They support BLM, which is a Marxist terror organization. They employ BLM and ANTIFA to commit political violence. The DNC has become a terrorist organization.

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