There was likely never going to be “comprehensive immigration reform” or any deal amnestying the DACA recipients in exchange for building the wall. Democrats in the present political landscape will not consent to a wall. For them, a successful border wall is now considered bad politics in almost every manner imaginable.
Yet 12 years ago, Congress, with broad bipartisan support, passed the Secure Fence of Act of 2006. The bill was signed into law by then-President George W. Bush to overwhelming public applause. The stopgap legislation led to some 650 miles of a mostly inexpensive steel fence while still leaving about two-thirds of the 1,950-mile border unfenced.
In those days there were not, as now, nearly 50 million foreign-born immigrants living in the United States, perhaps nearly 15 million of them illegally.
Sheer numbers have radically changed electoral politics. Take California. One out of every four residents in California is foreign-born. Not since 2006 has any California Republican been elected to statewide office.
The solidly blue states of the American Southwest, including Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico, voted red as recently as 2004 for George W. Bush. Progressives understandably conclude that de facto open borders are good long-term politics.
Once upon a time, Democrats such as Hillary and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama talked tough about illegal immigration. They even ruled out amnesty while talking up a new border wall.
In those days, progressives saw illegal immigration as illiberal — or at least not as a winning proposition among union households and the working poor.
Democratic constituencies opposed importing inexpensive foreign labor for corporate bosses. Welfare rights groups believed that massive illegal immigration would swamp social services and curtail government help to American poor of the barrios and the inner city.
So, what happened? Again, numbers.
Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants have flocked into the United States over the last decade. In addition, the Obama administration discouraged the melting-pot assimilationist model of integrating only legal immigrants.
Salad-bowl multiculturalism, growing tribalism and large numbers of unassimilated immigrants added up to politically advantageous demography for Democrats in the long run.
In contrast, a wall would likely reduce illegal immigration dramatically and with it future Democratic constituents. Legal, meritocratic, measured and diverse immigration in its place would likely end up being politically neutral. And without fresh waves of undocumented immigrants from south of the border, identity politics would wane.
A wall also would radically change the optics of illegal immigration. Currently, in unsecured border areas, armed border patrol guards sometimes stand behind barbed wire. Without a wall, they are forced to rely on dogs and tear gas when rushed by would-be border crossers. They are easy targets for stone-throwers on the Mexican side of the border.
A high wall would end that. Border guards would be mostly invisible from the Mexican side of the wall. Barbed wire, dogs and tear gas astride the border — the ingredients for media sensationalism — would be unnecessary. Instead, footage of would-be border crossers trying to climb 30-foot walls would emphasize the degree to which some are callously breaking the law.
Such imagery would remind the world that undocumented immigrants are not always noble victims but often selfish young adult males who have little regard for the millions of aspiring immigrants who wait patiently in line and follow the rules to enter the United State lawfully.
More importantly, thousands of undocumented immigrants cross miles of dangerous, unguarded borderlands each year to walk for days in the desert. Often, they fall prey to dangers ranging from cartel gangs to dehydration.
The left can taste it: ultimate, total power. They’ve demonstrated how it can be done in California; allow millions of illegal immigrants in, protect them from federal law in sanctuary cities, give them drivers license and ID’s, then look the other way as operatives get them to register to vote, then wipe out Republicans assisted by voter harvesting and fraud. It is a recipe for total power… and ruin.
So they will now tell any lie, use any hypocrisy, break any law, trample the Constitution to keep Trump from getting a border wall victory. The media will suppress any and all reporting of border violations, violence, crime and disease coming across the intentionally left wide open border. It is a desperate time.
@Deplorable Me: If the government gets shut down the feckless swamp creatures best slither back to DC and fund the damn wall, a go fund me has over 6 million in 3 days 3 days this does send a message that we dont care who is in power the VOTERS want security on our borders.
I dont care how California commits suicide, dont care, let the whole damn state slide off into the radiation contaminated pacific.
https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall
Trump’s Border Wall Doesn’t Make Any #*$% Sense (Complete with illustrations.)
@Greg: We dont care about your disinformation and moronic propaganda.
Everywhere there is a wall border crossings drop dramatically.
It will harm the illegal drug and sex slave industry, California has decriminalized underage prostitution think about that.
@kitt, #4:
It’s actually a summary of very specific, fact-based arguments against the border wall proposal, none of which I have ever seen convincingly rebutted. Such a presentation is not propaganda; it’s a call for people to think things through.
Millions of undocumented aliens in the U.S. entered as legal visitors and then remained after their visas expired. Physical barriers are easily defeated. A $21 billion to $30 billion wall can be overcome with a $100 ladder, and there are nearly 2,000 miles of places to set a ladder up. The funds that a wall would require could pay for a lot of border patrolling and intrusion sensing equipment. So, what makes the most sense?
Pres Trump is NOT going to sign the continuing resolution that does NOT include some border wall funding.
That is all.
@kitt: The idea is to protect children from adult abuse—the 13-17 year old is the abused and to be treated as minor and not as criminal.
Trump “Don’t call it a wall –call it slats.”
“What’s in a name———–is still a wall”
@Greg: We saw it right in Tijuana. 6 thousand or more held back by a poorly maintained and inadequate fence/wall. The military was needed only to plug the breaches but it is obvious that a better conceived wall WILL work.
Like voter ID, you leftists identify what scares you the most by declaring it racist, suppressing or in adequate.
A wall damn well WILL work and it is cheap compared to what illegal immigration costs the American people (the lives lost to illegal immigrants cannot be replaced). No $100 ladder is going to scale the 30′ wall. Israel proves the effectiveness of a well constructed wall.
Refer to the structural engineer’s Hoover Dam comparison made on the page linked up in post #3. You have just added another 10 feet of height to the model his estimate was based upon. That would necessarily increase the total volume of concrete by over 1/3.
@Richard Wheeler: Its a catch and release program that does nothing to stop child trafficking. Its insane!
@Deplorable Me: lol who is going to tote a ladder able to scale a 30 foot steel fence through the desert? But maybe they will build a catapult or go over it on jet powered pogo sticks its a distraction argument given by the weak minded.
@Greg: A 30′ ladder is not going to scale a 30′ wall. You would need at least a 40′ ladder. Look them up; almost $500. But… you’ll need two, unless you bounce real good.
@kitt: Labor won’t be a problem. However, getting a ladder that weighs 90 lbs and is 20 feet long collapsed up to the top of the 30′ wall, over and secured on the other side won’t be easy. Meanwhile, while they are banging around with the metal ladders on the metal walls, the Border Patrol has plenty of time to react.
The wall will work.
@Deplorable Me: But what if they have a giant slingshot, rocket back packs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JqycAn0hY
Meanwhile the go fund me has reached 7.7 million some assh)le at WaPoop wants it down despite a money back guarantee
@kitt: I know the wall will not keep 100% of the illegal immigrants out, but they won’t be coming across in the hundreds of thousands each year. But, the liberals hate the idea of solving the illegal immigrant problem, so they pretend if one gets through, it’s a total failure.
Watching C-Span as they vote on the border wall/disaster relief in Congress.
C-Span allowed people to call in to say if they supported the border wall. They were identified by Republican, Democrat or Independent. All but two of the Democrats who called in (about 10) supported the border wall.
The Democrats are on the losing end of this argument. If the wall is not funded, wow, are they giving Republican candidates fodder to use against them in 2020. I guess you can’t fix stupid.
@Kitt:” CATCH AND RELEASE” what are they mice? hate that phrase when dealing with human beings. ladders and catapults and guards dropping hot oil–how medieval
Go fund me exists for everyone and everything—often a scam artist behind it.
@retire05: Greg called in twice?
@Richard Wheeler: I am not going to change choice of words, no you do not release mice you use a sure kill trap then dump it in the trash.
The founder of the gofundme is Brian Kolfage jr, a Purple Heart Recipient triple amputee veteran, it will top 8 million today. He is well known.
@Richard Wheeler: Some of them are definitely rodentia. They are caught, and then they are released, never to be heard from again. What else would you call this idiocy?
@Deplorable Me and Kitt—-You two and 05 talk a lot like Trump–probably one of the reasons you like him so much.
Mattis is resigning–Kelly gone—2 great Marines and the best thing DT had going for him—is ol “can’t remember which foot it was” gonna call the shots? GOD HELP US.
What a day as markets confirm The Bear—DT will be damn lucky to get through the next 2 years—he looks VERY tired.
Re The Wall Latest Pew Poll shows 61% against 36% in favor—over 80% Dems oppose
@Richard Wheeler: Mattis a regrettable loss, but it was our “allies” that were not ponying up their share for defense, Trump did nothing to them except ask for what is owed. No we dont “sugar- tit” our posts for snowflake bullies.
@Richard Wheeler:
You wanted to know how much money I have donated to the GoFundMe Build The Wall Account. Not that it is any of your business what I do with my money, but the answer is zero.
Now, let’s see if you will answer my questions:
How many funerals of friends who have been murdered by illegal aliens have you attended?
How many illegal aliens have you taken into your own home and supported so that they would not be a burden on society?
Your state is a wreck, thanks to those like Governor Moonbeam. Your middle class is fleeing in droves. Your large cities are becoming one big toilet. Small businesses are relocating in other states. It will not be very long before there is nothing left in California but the very rich and the very poor. Without the middle class, California will be bankrupted in short order. Then what? Demand the rest of the nation’s taxpayer bail your corrupt state out?
How ridiculous are Democrats? You should listen to Luis Gutierrez today when he invoked the name of Christ over a border wall. He belongs to the same party who wanted to remove the name of G-d from their platform and who has a DNC leader who claims Christians are America’s problem. How proud you must be.
You HATE Donald Trump. We get it. How sad that your brain has been so poisoned.
@Richard Wheeler: I like Trump because he is a President that doesn’t hate the country or the military and is trying to do a good job cleaning up past messes. I was NOT willing to settle for Hillary.
Gen Mattis had to have known Trump’s intentions about the stupidity of being involved in Syria. We should have never been involved there. Syria is Russia’s ally (thanks to Obama) not ours; let Putin handle ISIS and the insurgents. We can’t tell who is friend or foe there. Would you prefer to remain in Syria?
@Deplorable Me: Mattis believes in maintaining strong alliances and positioning our forces strategically. I trust his 30+ years of experience Trump didn’t even consult him on the Syria pullout
Trump said he retired–false he resigned.
Do you really think ANY prez Repub or Dem has hated our country or the military? I think that a foolish comment and belief.
@Rich Wheeler: Obama fired Gen. Mattis, ignored all advice about pulling out of Iraq and left a huge mess to be cleaned up. Again, Gen. Mattis shouldn’t be surprised about pulling out of Syria. Our alliances are no less strong than they ever were, it’s just that they know they don’t have a free ride anymore… at least not until the next spineless fool gets elected.
So, you DO think we should remain in Syria.
Bill Clinton WROTE he “loated” the military. I saw nothing in Hillary that indicated she felt any differently. Obama, like most liberals, has a very low regard for the military. It’s why he treated Gen’s McCrystal, Flynn and Mattis as he did.
@Deplorable Me: Richie has no skin in the game, he could’nt care less how many sons nephews or husbands come back missing limbs, suicidal or not at all.
His wall poll is full of shit, in 3 days the go fund me will hit 10 million
at noon it broke 6 million now its $9,118,868 none of this includes the checks mailed.
Tens of thousands chanted build that wall, the house passed the 5 billion, lets see what turtle man can do to get it to the presidents desk.
@retire05: I have no friends that have been murdered by illegal aliens and none living in my home.
I work with some and some have worked at my home—-industrious people hardly a burden on the economy
Your predicted demise of Southern Cal is perhaps wishful thinking.and premature.The time I’ve spent in Texas–extreme heat very uncomfortable.–saw a lot of bbq and early morning Jack drinkers–obesity seemed epidemic–no place I’d choose to live.
Believe both my physical and mental health pretty good but thanks for your concern.
You might be more concerned with the POTUS who qualifies as obese —re his mental health–questioned by many .but I personally wish him well as he finishes up.
Kitt I don’t have a wall poll–it’s Pew which we’ve used before
The passage in House–pure waste of time-can’t get past Senate
I believe people who have actually been in war/combat have the greatest concern for the physical and mental health of our troops–that would be Mattis and Kelly, who lost a son—not Trump.
@Richard Wheeler: you are correct it is Peeewie stinky The Wall Latest Pew Poll
It is a partial solution but government never works toward solutions
@kitt: Let’s see if Schumer decides to shut down the government … again. You think they believe Trump is serious?
@Deplorable Me: Yes he is serious, a shut down is nothing really, Reagan did it many times no one died. Trump wont be a vindictive lil prick like Barry, no Veterans Memorials will be blocked to Honor Flight men.
@Richard Wheeler:
I am now at five. Two, husband and wife, just 18 months ago. Killed by an illegal drunk driver who had a number of convicted DUIs in Austin, a sanctuary city that refused to notify ICE. Now a great couple is dead. The illegal ran over them from the rear while they were riding home on their motorcycle on a state highway. The illegal then fled the scene after dragging them both the length of three football fields, decapitating the husband.
You do know it is a violation of the law to hire an illegal, right? Seems you Californians have little respect for the law. Did you gain that mindset while in the military?
I never mentioned Southern Cal. You did. I wish California would become the beautiful state it once was. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.
Oh, really, Jack in the morning? And where did you see them? At Wal-Mart? You are so full of crap, Wheeler. Yes, we have lots of bar-b-que. The best in the world, actually. And fat people are every where, not just in Texas. So glad you never want to live here.
You definitely have a mental issue with your excessive TDS.
Who? Psychiatrists that have never spoke to him? Jeeze, you’ll believe anything.
Liar..
@retire05: Texas is not for the weak. Notice ANTIFA doesn’t pull their crap here and Muslim terrorists get burned down before they can get to their potential victims. We do have liberal run cities like San Antonio and Austin which smell like piss, though. Liberals will Califoriaize it if they get the chance.
House approves spending bill with $5.7B for border wall
Very impressive. The House courageously passed a spending bill that they know full well won’t make it through the Senate.
The resignation of Mattis sends a message to Repubs who support DT. Mad Dog is not one of the swamp creatures Trump has appointed and resign or are pushed out on a weekly basis.
Read his resignation letter. The message is clear that Trump is on the wrong path in his international dealings which could have catastrophic results.
I truly was hopeful that honest non political patriots like Kelly and Mattis could steer Trump in a positive direction—now they are gone–what’s next–with Dems taking over the House DT will be under tremendous pressure—he’s lost the two men who could best help him deal with it
@Richard Wheeler: Bull, the last 40years has been crap politics and dealings. Time to spend those billions on America and take care of our own. We need to stop the blood sacrifice to the NWO. I hope for many Christmas reunions with our soldiers and their families. Drop off all the desert gear with the Kurds and vamoose.
December 20, 2018 — U.S. to Withdraw About 7,000 Troops From Afghanistan, Officials Say
If we’re abruptly downsizing by half, maybe we’d better bring them all back; otherwise we may find ourselves hastily sending reinforcements to protect those who remain.
You may recall that Obama’s withdrawal from Iraq—which his political opponents attacked him for as being dangerously precipitous—kept to the 2-year timetable that was established by the previous administration. Nothing was done with this degree of suddenness, and our allies were fully apprised of the timetable from the start.
@Greg: They tried to pass one without the needed funding but Trump made it clear he wouldn’t sign it. Then they got the votes.
Now, it’s up to Schumer. If he forbids Democrats from voting for the funding bill, it’s HIS shut down.
Now, suddenly, liberals think we should stay in Afghanistan? Such hypocrites. We basically jogged in place for 8 years in Afghanistan under Obama. I fully support pulling out of Syria but think we should secure Afghanistan.
Pulling 2,000 troops out of Syria is totally different from pulling all US troops protecting all of Iraq. The Russians are in Syria; let them deal with the mess. Obama let the Russians establish themselves there as a way to justify backing off his stupid “red line”. Obama only wanted to assist the Muslim Brotherhood and the “Arab Spring” in spreading Islamic states across the region; we never had any business there whatsoever.
@Richard Wheeler:
They both signed on knowing what the agenda was. Being in Syria was nothing but a prolonged mistake, a mess left behind by Obama, who fired Gen. Mattis.
I read the resignation. Very respectful and grateful.
@Deplorable Me: Unlike Flynn, who joined in the lock her up chants, Mattis and Kelly are apolitical Patriots.
Of course Mattis and Kelly were going to be respectful to the CIC in their resignations.
They are United States Marine Corps 4 Star Generals–I’d expect nothing less.
Semper Fi
@Richard Wheeler: So, you don’t think she should go to jail for lying to Congress, which is on video and Comey confirmed? I thought you indicated you weren’t a supporter.
Gen. Flynn should go to jail for NOT lying but Hillary should remain free FOR lying. THIS is what is wrong with the Democrat party.
@Deplorable Me: Flynn stood at the Trump rally and chanted “lock her up”—unbecoming a 3 star General.
Sullivan was close to putting him in jail–lawyers did him no favors. I did not support Trump or Clinton—should either go to jail?–not my call-
Flynn reiterated to Sullivan he lied to FBI and to Pence.
I supported Dem. Jim Webb for Prez and would support him again should he chose to run as an indie in 2020. Would like to see Kasich primary DT in 2020
@Richard Wheeler:
But who did you VOTE FOR in the California primaries of 2016?
@Richard Wheeler:
Sure donate now! He has as much chance as any independent toss your money and your vote away.
Uh, no. Everyone who has been paying any attention at all to the news knows there was a bipartisan compromise bill that would have prevented an entirely unnecessary shutdown, but you had a hissy fit about your wall and announced you wouldn’t sign it. You also own the Mattis firing and the diving stock market.
Do you remember who said the following, only 10 days ago?
@Greg:
And everyone with an I.Q. above their shoe size (that would not be you) knows that the Senate does NOT bind the House of Representatives. If the House of Representatives agree with a bill out of the Senate, they vote that way, but all bills are subject to amendments.
Dumass, Trump did NOT fire Mattis. You must be having Obama flashbacks.
Seems Chuck (The Smuck) Schumer has memory issues. He keeps forgetting to add those three little words “for border security”.
You’re an idiot.
@Richard Wheeler:
EVERY AMERICAN should want her locked up. She jeopardized national security, lied about it to the FBI and Congress and sold US influence to enrich herself. ANY patriotic American should be calling for her to be locked up until she is tried and convicted. What is beneath dignity is to simply let her get away with her crimes because of ideology. Nothing is more UN-American.
Delaying sentencing for 90 days doesn’t make any sense, then. Sounds more like the judge wants to look into these phony charges more deeply. I don’t think it’s good for Mueller; he wanted this chapter to be closed quickly.
@Greg:
Mattis “firing”? WHO needs to pay more attention to the news again? The stock market drop is being driven by the Fed; not under Trump’s control and an organization that NEVER raised rates on Obama. Why? You keep telling us Obama’s economy was booming.
If wall funding was not in the funding bill, it was not a “compromise”. It was Democrats insisting they get their way, just like they do every time. NOPE, Schumer has a funding bill in his hands and he can either vote for it and keep the government open or vote against it knowing Trump will not sign it, and shut the government down. That’s SCHUMER’S decision and it will be his responsibility.
@Deplorable Me: That’s not Sullivan’s reason for delay—actually that suggestion by Flynn’s lawyers is what brought out Sullivan’s ire.
Called recess and shaky lawyers asked him for 90 more days of government cooperation rather than jailing Flynn for THEIR stupidity. Sullivan agreed.
@retire05:
Right. I keep forgetting that Mattis is resigning because he doesn’t want to continue lending credibility to Donald Trump.
I’m not one who thought hosting a reality television show and an endorsement from the Duck Dynasty was evidence that a man was qualified to be Commander in Chief. It’s not my picture that appears when you do a Google image search for the word “idiot”, nor is that happening because of an intentionally rigged algorithm.
@Deplorable Me, #45:
Probably because the economy was working its way out of a disastrous downturn, and the average rate of inflation over Obama’s entire 8 year tenure was only 1.6 percent.
All eccential government is funded who GAFF if the others ever work again?
@Greg:
And Mattis said that where? Or is that just another “fact” that you seems to make up?
OMG, Duck Dynasty? How could Trump? Doesn’t he know that azzhats like you think the Robertson’s are nothing more than hicks who “cling to their guns and G-d?” No cultured elitist like you would ever have anything to do with a family that works hard, is well educated, earned millions of $$ from their own ingenuity, and appreciates the simple things in life like faith, family and freedom.
You’re not only an idiot (in spite of algorithms) you’re a real hater, Greggie Gullible.