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john Ryan
15 years ago
Please list the factors that contribute to the formation of sea ice.
McCain says that global climate change is a BIG problem Ron Paul says that it is not and Paul has scored another impressive 7% in BOTH Indiana and North Carolina. Curt probably agrees with Paul on more issues than he wishes us to know.
Of course the fact that the northern half of the planet seems to be getting warmer and that 90% of the earth’s population lives in the northern hemisphere should not lessen the impact of this most important observation about the southern sea ice.
“Please list the factors that contribute to the formation of sea ice.”
Only a Paulbot would ask something so silly!
Factors necessary for the formation of sea ice:
A. water
B. cold
More ice= no warming!
john Ryan
15 years ago
Hey wait a minute Mike you seem to have missed the most important facts I urge others to use the link that Mike provided.
The openning sentence under global highlights says that globally averaged land and sea temps for March were the second warmest ever recorded. ????? Mike the report says that we are getting warmer.
Mike it seems to me that you took one item out of perhaps 20 that may have shown it was cooler and based your whole argument on that.
john Ryan
15 years ago
no Paul bot here Mike I believe in global warming
john Ryan
15 years ago
Ron Paul does not believe in global warming
john Ryan
15 years ago
well here is the link to the whole article by NOAA not just the part about the sea ice http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/global.html#seaice
As can plainly be seen NOAA says that we are getting warmer. Only a closet Ron Paul supporter would twist this into a reverse of what the article says.
March Anomaly Rank Warmest (or Next
Warmest) Year on Record
Global
Land +1.78°C (+3.20°F)warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)13th warmest
Land and Ocean +0.70°C (+1.26°F+) 2nd warmest
Northern Hemisphere
Land+2.24°C (+4.03°F)warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)9th warmest
Land and Ocean +1.03°C (+1.85°F) warmest
Southern Hemisphere
Land+0.35°C (+0.63°F)22nd warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)22nd warmest
Land and Ocean +0.32°C (+0.58°F)22nd warmest
That might explain why the Northern sea ice hasn’t recovered as fast. But recent results show the turnaround rather clearly:
Warmer, colder. Point is, John Ryan, you might want to stop believing in “global warming” and start believing in “climate change”, as dictated by Mother Nature’s whim.
And while you’re at it, you might get used to the fact that climate eras on earth have little to to do with man. As I said to you in another thread, we’re nothing but gnats on an elephant’s butt. Pompous lot we are as a breed of life … the height of chutzpah assuming we can actually affect or control the earth’s climatic epochs.
You will find you can be a global warming believer without placing the blame on human shoulders. Just a cognizance of history.
You will also find those global warming believers changing their tunes quite quickly, as it becomes more of a global cooling envirnoment.
Aye Chihuahua
15 years ago
“7%”
Hip Hip Hooray!
Start writing the speeches and preparing for the Inaugural Balls.
john Ryan
15 years ago
Mike I did not even look at the temp points I simply looked at the very first item headlined in that report the one at the top of the page http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/mar08.html
Under the table of contents there is a listing for GLOBAL ANALYSISTemperature Rankings and Graphics
Current Month / Year-to-date
Effective with the February 2006 report, NCDC transitioned from the use of the Operational Global Surface Temperature Index (Quayle et al. 1999) to the blended land and ocean dataset developed by Smith and Reynolds (2005). The differences between the two methods are discussed in Smith et al. (2005).
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the second warmest on record in March, behind 2002, and the eleventh warmest on record for January-March year-to-date period. Temperatures were warmer than average across Europe and Asia, prompting the March 2008 global and Northern Hemisphere land surface temperatures to be the warmest since records began in 1880. La Niña, the cold phase of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation, persisted in the equatorial Pacific, damping ocean surface temperatures. The global average ocean sea surface temperature (SST) in March was the 13th warmest on record. See the March global time series.
Mike on even the data you post I see
warmest
warmest
2nd warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest 22nd warmest
I think that there is not a lot of wiggle room there warmest means warmest
Of course some people will deny anything global climate change, 9/11, evolution, the age of the earth and they will always be able to find some “scientist” to agree with them.
NOAA is an agency of the Federal Government they say that global climate change is occurring ( and yes it has occurred before often with disastrous effects on life on the planet)
Believing that 6 billion people can not have any effect on their enviorment ? well that is a bit much to swallow.
The only when your position is only defended by one Republican presidential candidate and that one is Ron Paul you have to admit that denying global climate change is a bit out of the mainstream of even Republican thought
What is yor deal with Ron Paul???? I think he is a loon and hasno chance a winnig the Presidency.
As for you follies and apologies for the climate hysterics. We all believe that the Earth has warmed since the Little Ice Age and there was Global Warming. But that does not mean that we have had anything to do with it. Remember CO2 is .002% of the green house gasses, H2O is the #1 green house gas and we have no control over that.
The Sun cools and warms the Earth and goes in Cycles, just like we have the seasons, well so does the Sun. And from the indications that are comingo ut, we are in for some cooler temperatures. There have been very few Sunspots this year and right now there is none.
So get off your high horse and actually look at the science, not the hype by the environazis that think the end of the world is coming.
fester
15 years ago
Climate change I can accept. That man has some impact is plausable.
That the trend might go towards warming I cannot discount.
That man has never created a global model that can see beyond 10 days is a fact.
Everything else aforementioned here is theory.
john Ryan
15 years ago
Yes stix there are many factors that control climate however 2 of them solar activity and volcanoes should have resulted in GLOBAL COOLING however surprise surprise instead we have global warming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
“Recent estimates (Figure 9.9) indicate a relatively small combined effect of natural forcings on the global mean temperature evolution of the seconds half of the twentieth century, with a small net cooling from the combined effects of solar and volcanic forcings”
Foot note #2
And Ron Paul vote total percentage went to 8% just what is the percentage of wack jobs voting Republican these days anyway ?
8% voted for Ron Paul but 64% voted for Obamassiah in NC. Who are the real nutjobs. Obama has no credibility in anything. He has risen on the backs of others. Just ask the Illinois Legislature on how he was given bills so he can have a record. he never wrote any bills in Illinois he was just given then by I think it was Madigan so he could run for the Senate.
So natural forces can actully stop the ruination of the planet. How can that be. I thought Global warming was here to stay and we only had 10 years to fix it. Oh I forgot that was 10 years ago when they said that, or wasit last year orthe year befiore. it is always 10 years befoe we fall over the cliff. Just look at some ofthe articles from the 1930, or 1970s. It is always just enough into the future so we forget that it has been 10 years from the last prediction of “doom and gloom”.
Kind of makes you wonder doesn’t it??? Wasn’t it 35years ago that the next Ice Age was coming from these same “experts”. And weren’t we all going to be dieing of starvation by 1990??? If you can show me how these are valid predictions, then maybe I will listen to you. And if theycan tell me exactly what the weather will be like on July 20, I will listen to them, but they can not predict beyond a couple days of waht the weather will be, so why should I listen to them about 50 years from now.
Stix: At what point does the data overwhelm the envirozealots like J. Ryan? I wonder if it ever will, or will he and his ilk be the true deniers to the last here?
Aqua and Argos and many other hard data programs are creating a basis for a TRUER understanding of our world and it’s climate. We will all benefit from the knowledge gained from these observations over time.
But whether that reality sinks in with the envirozealot deniers is a question for which science has no answer.
I don’t think that it ever will. It is too much of a religion now. They lost faith in regualr religion and started their own and it is the Church of Global Warming and no one can change thier mind. Facts will never chang their mind because their computer models say so, and damn it if the facts get in the way. Hell you can make a computer model do anything you want it to and fool peolpe into believing that the World is going to end beacuse of CO2 which helps us grow crops to feed people, and now they are going to use the food that the CO2 grows to make more of a mess. Screw the people, thay do not need to eat, we are going to make that food into fuel so we can save Gaia.
At some point though science will catch up to the flawed assumptions in the computer models. It may take a few years, but it WILL happen. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
CommanderBill
15 years ago
I think you may find it interesting that southern hemisphere has around 1,000,000 square kilometers more sea ice then the mean of 1979-2000 and the most at this point since satellite data started being taken in 1978.
Also of note is northern hemisphere sea ice has rebounded to about 1,000,000 square kilometers from its 1979-2000 mean . The world sea ice loss is now approximately zero reduction from its 1979-2000 mean.
Equally as interesting is a recent NASA study that concluded ” the rapid decline in winter perennial ice (northern hemisphere) the past two years was caused by unusual winds. Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in the warmer waters.”
It may be non related factor however, solar cycle 24 seems to be slow to start and the minimum seems to correlate rather nicely with the rebound of sea ice.
Please list the factors that contribute to the formation of sea ice.
McCain says that global climate change is a BIG problem Ron Paul says that it is not and Paul has scored another impressive 7% in BOTH Indiana and North Carolina. Curt probably agrees with Paul on more issues than he wishes us to know.
Of course the fact that the northern half of the planet seems to be getting warmer and that 90% of the earth’s population lives in the northern hemisphere should not lessen the impact of this most important observation about the southern sea ice.
“Please list the factors that contribute to the formation of sea ice.”
Only a Paulbot would ask something so silly!
Factors necessary for the formation of sea ice:
A. water
B. cold
More ice= no warming!
Hey wait a minute Mike you seem to have missed the most important facts I urge others to use the link that Mike provided.
The openning sentence under global highlights says that globally averaged land and sea temps for March were the second warmest ever recorded. ????? Mike the report says that we are getting warmer.
Mike it seems to me that you took one item out of perhaps 20 that may have shown it was cooler and based your whole argument on that.
no Paul bot here Mike I believe in global warming
Ron Paul does not believe in global warming
well here is the link to the whole article by NOAA not just the part about the sea ice http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/global.html#seaice
As can plainly be seen NOAA says that we are getting warmer. Only a closet Ron Paul supporter would twist this into a reverse of what the article says.
NOAA said nothing of the kind John Ryan.
I read the temperature data before you did, but note you cherry picked only ONE data point out of that report.
I wonder why?
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/global.html#temp
March Anomaly Rank Warmest (or Next
Warmest) Year on Record
Global
Land +1.78°C (+3.20°F)warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)13th warmest
Land and Ocean +0.70°C (+1.26°F+) 2nd warmest
Northern Hemisphere
Land+2.24°C (+4.03°F)warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)9th warmest
Land and Ocean +1.03°C (+1.85°F) warmest
Southern Hemisphere
Land+0.35°C (+0.63°F)22nd warmest
Ocean+0.31°C (+0.56°F)22nd warmest
Land and Ocean +0.32°C (+0.58°F)22nd warmest
That might explain why the Northern sea ice hasn’t recovered as fast. But recent results show the turnaround rather clearly:
Sorry, John Ryan… No global warming….. And while you’re clicking links, don’t miss the report on NASA’s Aqua satellite! You might learn something.
Warmer, colder. Point is, John Ryan, you might want to stop believing in “global warming” and start believing in “climate change”, as dictated by Mother Nature’s whim.
And while you’re at it, you might get used to the fact that climate eras on earth have little to to do with man. As I said to you in another thread, we’re nothing but gnats on an elephant’s butt. Pompous lot we are as a breed of life … the height of chutzpah assuming we can actually affect or control the earth’s climatic epochs.
You will find you can be a global warming believer without placing the blame on human shoulders. Just a cognizance of history.
You will also find those global warming believers changing their tunes quite quickly, as it becomes more of a global cooling envirnoment.
“7%”
Hip Hip Hooray!
Start writing the speeches and preparing for the Inaugural Balls.
Mike I did not even look at the temp points I simply looked at the very first item headlined in that report the one at the top of the page http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/mar08.html
Under the table of contents there is a listing for GLOBAL ANALYSISTemperature Rankings and Graphics
Current Month / Year-to-date
Effective with the February 2006 report, NCDC transitioned from the use of the Operational Global Surface Temperature Index (Quayle et al. 1999) to the blended land and ocean dataset developed by Smith and Reynolds (2005). The differences between the two methods are discussed in Smith et al. (2005).
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the second warmest on record in March, behind 2002, and the eleventh warmest on record for January-March year-to-date period. Temperatures were warmer than average across Europe and Asia, prompting the March 2008 global and Northern Hemisphere land surface temperatures to be the warmest since records began in 1880. La Niña, the cold phase of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation, persisted in the equatorial Pacific, damping ocean surface temperatures. The global average ocean sea surface temperature (SST) in March was the 13th warmest on record. See the March global time series.
Mike on even the data you post I see
warmest
warmest
2nd warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest
warmest 22nd warmest
I think that there is not a lot of wiggle room there warmest means warmest
Of course some people will deny anything global climate change, 9/11, evolution, the age of the earth and they will always be able to find some “scientist” to agree with them.
NOAA is an agency of the Federal Government they say that global climate change is occurring ( and yes it has occurred before often with disastrous effects on life on the planet)
Believing that 6 billion people can not have any effect on their enviorment ? well that is a bit much to swallow.
The only when your position is only defended by one Republican presidential candidate and that one is Ron Paul you have to admit that denying global climate change is a bit out of the mainstream of even Republican thought
What is yor deal with Ron Paul???? I think he is a loon and hasno chance a winnig the Presidency.
As for you follies and apologies for the climate hysterics. We all believe that the Earth has warmed since the Little Ice Age and there was Global Warming. But that does not mean that we have had anything to do with it. Remember CO2 is .002% of the green house gasses, H2O is the #1 green house gas and we have no control over that.
The Sun cools and warms the Earth and goes in Cycles, just like we have the seasons, well so does the Sun. And from the indications that are comingo ut, we are in for some cooler temperatures. There have been very few Sunspots this year and right now there is none.
So get off your high horse and actually look at the science, not the hype by the environazis that think the end of the world is coming.
Climate change I can accept. That man has some impact is plausable.
That the trend might go towards warming I cannot discount.
That man has never created a global model that can see beyond 10 days is a fact.
Everything else aforementioned here is theory.
Yes stix there are many factors that control climate however 2 of them solar activity and volcanoes should have resulted in GLOBAL COOLING however surprise surprise instead we have global warming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
“Recent estimates (Figure 9.9) indicate a relatively small combined effect of natural forcings on the global mean temperature evolution of the seconds half of the twentieth century, with a small net cooling from the combined effects of solar and volcanic forcings”
Foot note #2
And Ron Paul vote total percentage went to 8% just what is the percentage of wack jobs voting Republican these days anyway ?
The only wack job here is you John.
8% voted for Ron Paul but 64% voted for Obamassiah in NC. Who are the real nutjobs. Obama has no credibility in anything. He has risen on the backs of others. Just ask the Illinois Legislature on how he was given bills so he can have a record. he never wrote any bills in Illinois he was just given then by I think it was Madigan so he could run for the Senate.
So natural forces can actully stop the ruination of the planet. How can that be. I thought Global warming was here to stay and we only had 10 years to fix it. Oh I forgot that was 10 years ago when they said that, or wasit last year orthe year befiore. it is always 10 years befoe we fall over the cliff. Just look at some ofthe articles from the 1930, or 1970s. It is always just enough into the future so we forget that it has been 10 years from the last prediction of “doom and gloom”.
Kind of makes you wonder doesn’t it??? Wasn’t it 35years ago that the next Ice Age was coming from these same “experts”. And weren’t we all going to be dieing of starvation by 1990??? If you can show me how these are valid predictions, then maybe I will listen to you. And if theycan tell me exactly what the weather will be like on July 20, I will listen to them, but they can not predict beyond a couple days of waht the weather will be, so why should I listen to them about 50 years from now.
John Ryan: I noticed you didn’t respond to my comment revealing the more complete data you left off your earlier comment.
I wonder why?
Because it does not go along with the Climate Hysterics ideology.
It is a religion to them and they need to have faith that the world is in peril and only they can save us.
Stix: At what point does the data overwhelm the envirozealots like J. Ryan? I wonder if it ever will, or will he and his ilk be the true deniers to the last here?
Aqua and Argos and many other hard data programs are creating a basis for a TRUER understanding of our world and it’s climate. We will all benefit from the knowledge gained from these observations over time.
But whether that reality sinks in with the envirozealot deniers is a question for which science has no answer.
I don’t think that it ever will. It is too much of a religion now. They lost faith in regualr religion and started their own and it is the Church of Global Warming and no one can change thier mind. Facts will never chang their mind because their computer models say so, and damn it if the facts get in the way. Hell you can make a computer model do anything you want it to and fool peolpe into believing that the World is going to end beacuse of CO2 which helps us grow crops to feed people, and now they are going to use the food that the CO2 grows to make more of a mess. Screw the people, thay do not need to eat, we are going to make that food into fuel so we can save Gaia.
At some point though science will catch up to the flawed assumptions in the computer models. It may take a few years, but it WILL happen. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
I think you may find it interesting that southern hemisphere has around 1,000,000 square kilometers more sea ice then the mean of 1979-2000 and the most at this point since satellite data started being taken in 1978.
Refers:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.south.jpg and
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.south.jpg
Also of note is northern hemisphere sea ice has rebounded to about 1,000,000 square kilometers from its 1979-2000 mean . The world sea ice loss is now approximately zero reduction from its 1979-2000 mean.
Refers:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.jpg
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
Equally as interesting is a recent NASA study that concluded ” the rapid decline in winter perennial ice (northern hemisphere) the past two years was caused by unusual winds. Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in the warmer waters.”
Refers: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html
It may be non related factor however, solar cycle 24 seems to be slow to start and the minimum seems to correlate rather nicely with the rebound of sea ice.