UAW flattened by a Volkswagen

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Having destroyed Detroit, the United Auto Workers union is desperate to infect foreign auto manufacturing plants in the South. It finally managed to force a vote on unionization in Chattanooga and the UAW hit a pot hole.

Volkswagen workers in Chattanooga, Tenn., have rejected the United Auto Workers, shooting down the union’s hopes of securing a foothold at a foreign-owned auto plant in the South.

The vote was 712 to 626, said the UAW, which blamed the loss on “politicians and outside special interest groups.”

The vote, announced late Friday night after three days of balloting, is a devastating loss for the UAW, whose membership has plummeted from a high of 1.5 million in 1979 to around 400,000 today. Outgoing UAW President Bob King had staked his legacy on organizing a Southern auto plant for the first time.

But the decision is a triumph for Tennessee Republicans like Sen. Bob Corker, who lured Volkswagen to Chattanooga as mayor in the early 2000s. Corker and other Republicans warned workers that the UAW’s presence would irreparably harm the plant, and in recent days he claimed — with little evidence — that Volkswagen would choose not to expand the plant if workers unionized.

“Needless to say, I am thrilled for the employees at Volkswagen and for our community and its future,” Corker said in a brief statement Friday night.

Union leaders, who poured millions of outside union dollars into a failed effort to unseat Scott Walker in Wisconsin, whined about outside money.

In a statement, the UAW blamed the conservative groups and Tennessee Republicans for their stinging defeat, with UAW Region 8 Director Gary Casteel saying that “politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that would grow jobs in Tennessee.”
“While we’re outraged by politicians and outside special interest groups interfering with the basic legal right of workers to form a union, we’re proud that these workers were brave and stood up to the tremendous pressure from outside,” UAW Secretary-Treasurer Dennis Williams said. “We hope this will start a larger discussion about workers’ right to organize.”

It was also a rebuke for Barack Obama who had weighed in on the vote.

But let’s be honest about unions. Unions used to exist for workers’ benefits. Now they exist solely as a means to funnel workers’ wages into the pockets of democrats and democrat issues. Liberals whine a lot about the influence of the Koch brothers, but the Koch’s are pikers in contrast to the money spent by liberals and unions. From Open Secrets:

candidates or outside spending groups and PACs not affiliated with either party.
Rank Organization Total ’89-’12 Dem % Repub % Tilt
1 ActBlue $97,192,340 99% 0%                                      
2 American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $60,667,379 81% 1%                   
3 AT&T Inc $56,449,317 41% 57%
4 National Education Assn $53,594,488 61% 4%
5 National Assn of Realtors $51,207,902 44% 47%
6 Goldman Sachs $44,847,951 53% 44%
7 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $44,478,789 92% 1%                                      
8 United Auto Workers $41,667,858 71% 0%                   
9 Carpenters & Joiners Union $39,260,371 74% 9%                   
10 Service Employees International Union $38,395,690 84% 2%                   
11 Laborers Union $37,494,010 85% 7%                   
12 American Federation of Teachers $36,713,325 89% 0%                   
13 Communications Workers of America $36,188,135 86% 0%                   
14 Teamsters Union $36,123,209 88% 5%                   
15 JPMorgan Chase & Co $34,527,277 48% 51%
16 United Food & Commercial Workers Union $33,756,550 86% 0%                   
17 United Parcel Service $32,214,128 35% 64%
18 Citigroup Inc $32,198,122 48% 50%
19 National Auto Dealers Assn $31,818,910 31% 68%
20 Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union $31,313,097 98% 1%                                      
21 EMILY’s List $31,267,654 98% 0%                                      
22 American Bankers Assn $31,135,202 36% 63%
23 AFL-CIO $30,938,977 61% 3%
24 American Medical Assn $29,990,879 40% 59%
25 Microsoft Corp $29,245,015 55% 43%
26 National Beer Wholesalers Assn $28,976,510 35% 64%
27 Blue Cross/Blue Shield $28,491,678 36% 63%
28 General Electric $27,741,628 47% 51%
29 National Assn of Home Builders $27,509,880 34% 65%
30 Lockheed Martin $27,246,173 42% 57%
31 Bank of America $26,822,749 41% 57%
32 National Assn of Letter Carriers $26,106,359 84% 9%                   
33 Morgan Stanley $26,074,770 42% 56%
34 Verizon Communications $25,490,499 40% 59%
35 Deloitte LLP $24,979,333 35% 63%
36 Time Warner $24,463,922 72% 25%                   
37 Newsweb Corp $24,387,371 41% 0%
38 Credit Union National Assn $24,056,155 47% 51%
39 Plumbers & Pipefitters Union $23,886,248 85% 4%                   
40 Altria Group $23,750,298 28% 70%                   
41 Ernst & Young $23,114,243 42% 57%
42 Operating Engineers Union $23,036,848 82% 14%                   
43 International Assn of Fire Fighters $22,963,260 79% 16%                   
44 American Hospital Assn $22,909,326 52% 46%
45 PricewaterhouseCoopers $22,461,596 35% 64%
46 Sheet Metal Workers Union $22,372,978 95% 2%                                      
47 American Dental Assn $21,791,508 44% 54%
48 Boeing Co $21,502,737 46% 52%
49 UBS AG $21,354,742 40% 58%
50 Comcast Corp $20,603,390 57% 42%
51 AFLAC Inc $19,822,809 43% 56%
52 National Rifle Assn $19,771,191 17% 82%                   
53 Pfizer Inc $19,699,869 35% 64%
54 Northrop Grumman $19,633,964 42% 57%
55 Union Pacific Corp $19,617,968 27% 72%                   
56 Air Line Pilots Assn $19,538,047 83% 16%                   
57 Honeywell International $19,447,557 44% 54%
58 Natl Assn/Insurance & Financial Advisors $19,305,624 41% 58%
59 Koch Industries                         $18,083,948 8% 90%                                      
60 American Postal Workers Union $17,957,308 86% 2%                   
61 American Assn for Justice $17,581,358 80% 3%                   
62 FedEx Corp $17,506,083 39% 60%
63 Ironworkers Union $17,386,345 92% 6%                                      
64 Club for Growth                         $17,271,352 0% 95%                                      
65 Credit Suisse Group $17,191,340 41% 57%
66 United Transportation Union $17,096,750 87% 11%                   
67 New York Life Insurance $16,898,487 49% 50%
68 Raytheon Co                             $16,864,289 44% 55%
69 National Rural Electric Cooperative Assn $16,552,363 47% 52%
70 General Dynamics $16,549,202 46% 53%
71 Akin, Gump et al                        $16,463,510 61% 37%
72 United Steelworkers $16,426,444 99% 0%                                      
73 American Institute of CPAs $15,952,635 41% 58%
74 National Air Traffic Controllers Assn $15,883,050 77% 20%                   
75 Chevron $15,826,864 19% 64%
76 Anheuser-Busch $15,612,613 48% 51%
77 Reynolds American $15,574,198 22% 77%                   
78 Exxon Mobil $15,220,537 13% 85%                   
79 KPMG LLP                       $15,112,328 34% 65%
80 National Cable & Telecommunications Assn $15,048,560 47% 51%
81 DLA Piper $14,902,117 68% 31%
82 Merrill Lynch $14,865,217 37% 62%
83 Wal-Mart Stores $14,851,004 32% 67%
84 GlaxoSmithKline $14,625,493 30% 69%
85 CSX Corp $14,118,661 34% 65%
86 Walt Disney Co $14,104,107 68% 30%
87 News Corp $13,917,083 58% 41%
88 American Financial Group $13,910,355 15% 73%                   
89 Indep Insurance Agents & Brokers/America $13,731,200 34% 64%
90 American Health Care Assn               $13,727,858 51% 48%
91 Wells Fargo $13,639,116 36% 61%
92 Associated Builders & Contractors       $13,577,082 1% 98%                                      
93 Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance     $13,565,554 38% 60%
94 University of California                $13,552,056 89% 9%                   
95 American Crystal Sugar $13,309,209 61% 37%
96 WPP Group $13,257,197 53% 45%
97 American Society of Anesthesiologists $13,166,537 41% 58%
98 Prudential Financial $13,051,316 49% 50%
99 Southern Co $12,973,439 29% 70%                   
100 National Restaurant Assn $12,605,181 16% 83%                   
101 Securities Industry & Financial Mkt Assn $12,438,248 40% 59%
102 Human Rights Campaign $12,148,422 89% 8%                   
103 MetLife Inc $12,038,047 51% 47%
104 American Optometric Assn                $12,034,433 57% 42%
105 Home Depot $11,900,495 25% 74%                   
106 American Academy of Ophthalmology $11,895,708 50% 49%
107 Natl Active & Retired Fed Employees Assn $11,802,200 78% 21%                   
108 Saban Capital Group                     $11,683,172 89% 0%                   
109 Eli Lilly & Co $11,651,455 31% 67%
110 United Technologies $11,577,894 45% 52%
111 General Motors $11,281,497 38% 60%
112 Associated General Contractors $11,198,897 14% 85%                   
113 Painters & Allied Trades Union $11,081,080 85% 12%                   
114 National Assn of Broadcasters $11,051,822 44% 55%
115 American Maritime Officers $11,019,831 46% 53%
116 UST Inc $10,930,093 22% 77%                   
117 Ford Motor Co                           $10,739,089 38% 60%
118 Skadden, Arps et al $10,700,094 77% 22%                   
119 BellSouth Corp $10,680,784 43% 56%
120 AIG $10,548,621 49% 50%
121 Seafarers International Union $10,449,415 83% 15%                   
122 Exelon Corp $10,448,670 43% 56%
123 National Cmte to Preserve Social Security & Medicare $10,391,306 82% 17%                   
124 Independent Community Bankers of America $10,367,285 42% 57%
125 Amway/Alticor Inc $10,312,313 0% 97%                                      
126 Freddie Mac $10,294,709 43% 56%
127 MBNA Corp $10,282,913 16% 83%                   
128 Patton Boggs LLP                        $10,134,606 71% 27%                   
129 American Airlines $10,071,131 43% 55%
130 American Trucking Assns                 $9,975,648 27% 72%                   
131 American Physical Therapy Assn          $9,795,983 49% 50%
132 Lehman Brothers $9,729,764 52% 46%
133 Blackstone Group                        $9,658,975 46% 51%
134 National Fedn of Independent Business   $9,616,283 6% 93%                                      
135 Greenberg Traurig LLP $9,546,903 62% 37%
136 Transport Workers Union                 $9,531,899 95% 4%                                      
137 American Council of Life Insurers $9,454,728 38% 61%
138 Amalgamated Transit Union               $9,453,918 93% 6%                                      
139 Harvard University                      $9,436,590 87% 12%                   
140 Archer Daniels Midland $9,394,067 42% 57%
141 Aircraft Owners & Pilots Assn $9,337,413 43% 56%
142 Fannie Mae                              $9,140,977 53% 46%
143 National Rural Letter Carriers Assn     $9,021,100 71% 28%                   
144 Wachovia Corp $8,575,944 30% 69%
145 National Cmte for an Effective Congress $8,447,690 99% 0%                                      
146 Interpublic Group $8,286,183 66% 32%
147 Marine Engineers Beneficial Assn $8,155,379 73% 25%                   
148 Bristol-Myers Squibb $7,926,699 23% 76%                   
149 MCI Inc $7,659,226 45% 54%
150 Bear Stearns                            $7,280,973 55% 43%
151 BP $6,843,520 30% 69%
152 Enron Corp $6,544,528 28% 71%                   
153 Andersen $6,267,045 37% 62%
154 Vivendi $6,037,717 60% 33%
155 MGM Resorts International $5,831,055 45% 47%
156 Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp $5,089,791 39% 60%

As you can see, the Koch brothers are a paltry #59.  Liberals dominate political donations. They’ll just have to do with a little less now.

DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education. DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed. Except for liberals being foolish.

60 Responses to “UAW flattened by a Volkswagen”

  1. 51

    Redteam

    @Norman: One little bit bothers me. You said:

    I have not read one single comment from a conservative that ever says anything bad about corporations.

    and I said:

    So now, Norman, admit that you’re heard a conservative say something bad about a corporation.

    and while you talked all around the subject, you didn’t say that.
    Apparently you are a dyed in the wool union believer and I realize that I’m not going to change your opinion that unions are the only thing saving the working folks from slavery. But at least, since you made the big point, you should at least admit you have heard a real conservative say something bad about corporations.
    I’m very familiar with a very large paper mill that is non-union. It is non-union because the company wanted it that way. Their pay is higher than comparable paper mills. They are able to work whatever hours (shifts) they want without being constrained by union agreements. If the ‘scheduled’ hours are 7-7, they can work 4-4 or 5-5 with no involvement of the company and no penalty to anyone. If there were a union, they couldn’t do that.

    VW Chattanooga, Nissan, Canton Mississippi, Daimler-Benz Alabama, we’re going to get one of those shops in the UAW.

    First, I don’t believe that will happen, but if it does, I’ll go on the record that it will be the first of those plants to shut down. Believe it or not, and I know from experience, that a company can give better benefits if they are not bound by so many rules that don’t allow it. I recall one time when an employee came to work intoxicated. The company rules did not allow any discretion in that situation. I personally called his next of kin, had them come get him, walked him to the gate, told him and his next of kin that if it ever happened again that he would be un-employed. He was an excellent employee forever after. Are corporation employees only out to ‘get’ union employees? That guy was a union guy. I treated all the employees in my domain the same way. I had excellent labor relations.

    My union dues is a total of $408 per year. Break that down and it’s $34 per month.

    and you’re in the UAW? the USW would be at least $34 per week and I’m sure of that. And everyone wonders why USW is going out of business.

    I am an Ohioan and Kasich keeps telling us that RTW is not part of his agenda. Snyder from Michigan said the same thing. Snyder got the squeeze put on him from his donors, so he got it passed in a lame duck session.

    So just because some other guy didn’t keep his word means Kasich won’t either? What kind of logic is that?
    You tried to dismiss my claim that National Union leaders make a ton of money by saying that your dues are only $34 a month. How about talking about what your UAW national leaders salary is. Then tell me how they pay that and what would be a better use of that money.
    Thanks for your courteous response.

  2. 52

    Nanny G

    @Redteam: UAW dues are 2 hours pay (raw, before deductions) for hourly workers.
    No way any UAW member is making only $17/hour including all pay.
    He’s lying.

    UAW base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the average reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour, GM says.

    Since the average reaches $39.68 an hour then another $33.58 on top of that, the dues would be $144 a month on average at GM.

  3. 53

    Norman

    Nanny G, I have no reason to lie. My current employer is not in the automotive sector, but we are UAW. The $34 per month was the amount promised when organizing started. I make more than $17 per hour. It’s anywhere from $24 to $28 per hour and that is NOT including my benefits.

    Redteam, you are the FIRST to say something negative about corporations. You’re also probably the last lol. I will say that unions made their fair share of mistakes. It’s like anything, you’ve got some good and some bad. There are some really bad unions out there that I would not be associated with,

    My problem with CEO pay is the “golden parachute” package they receive when they get terminated. It’s like, “here’s $5 million dollars for running the company into the ground”. Yea, I have a problem with that. Hostess comes to mind. The Twinkie…why is it not cheaper now that the company who bought it is non-union and the Twinkie is now smaller?

    Google Wisconsin repeal weekends off and Maine child labor repeal. History has a way of repeating itself.

    I need to call it a night and I’ll check back here tomorrow night when I get off work. Have a good night and if I missed something, it isn’t out of ignorance. Tomorrow is another day.

    Have a good night

  4. 54

    Redteam

    @Norman:

    The $34 per month was the amount promised when organizing started.

    That makes sense. Kinda like signing up for cable tv for $17 a month, for the first year. Don’t expect it to stay there. When I retired 12 years ago, the union dues were near $200 a month at the plant where I was. And medical insurance was over $100 a week (family plan).

    My problem with CEO pay is the “golden parachute” package they receive when they get terminated.

    I’m sure you mostly hear about the exceptions. I know a mill manager that just got terminated and I’ll assure you his ‘golden parachute’ was a boot in the butt. While that’s not a CEO job, it is a very high level job with a huge company.

    Hostess comes to mind. The Twinkie…why is it not cheaper now that the company who bought it is non-union and the Twinkie is now smaller?

    I hope you’re not under the impression that Hostess is in business to sell you a bigger cake than someone else for a lower price. If they have a top name, that draws customers, then they can charge more. Profit is the name of the game. Do you think a Tiger Woods golf club is a lot better than a generic club, or a Coca Cola costs more to make than a generic cola. No, you’re paying for the name. I’m sure the employees where you work likely associated with the UAW over some other union because of the name.
    I think if you believe that your union is an association that is genuinely working to make your working conditions as good as possible, that you’re likely right. But if those conditions also work to the detriment of the company, then at some point,, the job won’t exist any longer. Try to ensure that what you’re demanding of the company be something that is really worthwhile to the workers, but is also a benefit to the company and everyone will benefit in the long run. No manager of a company is resentful of reasonable demands that improve things, but when it just is a game of nit picking, no one wins.

  5. 55

    Randy

    @Norman: Actually, you must not get around much. You fail to understand what a corporation is and how they work. Is the UAW a corporation? I guess there are good corporations and bad corporations. Corporations only do what their stock holders want or they do not stay in business. Does the UAW do what there members want?

  6. 56

    Norman

    Randy, I do not fail to understand what a corporation is and what it is they do. I have been around. Have you ever been a union member? To answer your question: You stated that corporations do what their stockholders want or they do not stay in business. That’s not always true as Darden Restaurants just recently changed their bylaws because there is a backlash from its shareholders in the spinoff of Red Lobster. The UAW is a labor organization…always was, always will be. It takes money to run an organization…any organization. Yes, the UAW does what the majority of its members want in the contracts that have been negotiated at my places of employment. As an elected member to our bargaining committee, I take to the table what the majority want/need. Let me make myself perfectly clear, I do NOT dictate or decide what the majority want or need. I take an active approach and talk to my co-workers all the time and make myself available to the 3 shifts we work.

  7. 57

    Norman

    @Redteam:

    Back to my point about Hostess. Here’s another argument that I have lost count on how many times I have heard that unions drive up the price of things from the “antis”. Case in point, the Twinkie. Case in point, the automotive industry in low wage countries. Should I go on? I want these companies to make oodles of money. It sure makes it easier at the bargaining table when a company is making record profits. But I am also a realist.

    So it’s ok for the CEO, CFO and COO to get huge bonuses even when the company is not doing so well, but I’ll be damned if I haven’t heard from the republicans that it’s not ok for the production workers to negotiate for raises. Oh I know, we have to answer to the shareholders. Well, surprise surprise, some of your production workers are shareholders. I know, as I was certainly taking advantage of buying stock in the company I worked for. There were many of us and our stock was not at a discounted rate. Workers taking advantage of purchasing stock from the company in which they work is actually quite common. So now that gives us a different perspective because WE ALL have a vested interest in the well-being of the company.

    So when your top engineers and designers come up with products that are flawed and don’t sell well, who do you come to asking for concessions, all the while we see that your getting bonuses. Funny how that works isn’t it? But what do I know, Randy says I don’t get around much and Nanny G said I was lying about my union dues amount.

    We, the UAW have increased membership for 3 straight years and 2014 is also going to show increases. And that is even after RTW in Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and the southern, red states. We aren’t going anywhere, and we’re going to get stronger as the Republican Party keeps trying to repeal labor laws. Don’t poke the bear, but the Republicans are poking hard!

    It’s also not coincidental that when our economy was at it’s strongest, labor unions were strong.

    Redteam, the little I know about you, I will say that I totally respect the way you handled the employee who came in drunk. You would be the person I feel I could talk to to solve problems if you were in labor relations and we worked together.

    United We Stand, Divided We Beg.

  8. 58

    Redteam

    @Norman:

    So it’s ok for the CEO, CFO and COO to get huge bonuses even when the company is not doing so well

    No, it’s not and rarely happens. Unfortunately the ones that do get a lot of publicity. In most cases, a company might have been very successful and made tons of money under a CEO but then the market falls or that industry (for example, Steel) goes belly up and the company decides to try a new CEO but they reward the one that has made the company tons of money for having done that, not for being responsible for the market itself tumbling.
    Membership numbers do not look good for UAW having been 1.5 million members in 1979, 540,000 in 2006. 390,000 active members in 2010. It is not increasing membership in the auto industry overall, but in other businesses. Large unions do go away. Consider the UMW, Today, the UMW Union has about 80,000 members of which about 20,000 are mine workers. Most members are health care workers, truck drivers, manufacturing workers and public employees in the United States and Canada. The UMW was once nearly 1 million strong. Union membership in all areas are shrinking, it’s only a matter of time.

    So when your top engineers and designers come up with products that are flawed and don’t sell well, who do you come to asking for concessions,

    What is wrong with that? Isn’t it the opposite of the union expecting to benefit when those same engineers and designers come up with ideas that make a good profit for the company? There is clearly two sides to the story and whereas the main reasons for the existence of unions, working safety and hours are now well controlled by government regulations, the reasons for existence are not as strong as they have been. I don’t personally care if unions survive or don’t, it’s not going to affect me in any way, but I will say that if they don’t become more of a benefit to companies than they are a hindrance, then they won’t survive. It’s only logic.

    And that is even after RTW in Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and the southern, red states.

    RTW has been around for at least 50 years in most southern states and will become more prevalent in other states. But don’t you favor the right of a person to belong to a union, or to not belong, as they prefer? Just because they get a job, do you feel that it’s right to force them to join a union?

    Don’t poke the bear, but the Republicans are poking hard!

    I’m not quite sure where this feeling that it is the Republicans that are poking. When right to work was passed throughout the South, Democrats were in charge.

  9. 59

    Norman

    @Redteam:

    If a person doesn’t want to be in the union, that’s fine with me, but they should not be able to ride the coattails of gains made in negotiations without paying for that service that is provided. They can fend for themselves and they would not be able to participate in the grievance procedure. I should not have to provide any representation to that person either. They opted to not join and pay their share, therefore they shouldn’t gain the advantages of us dues paying members. I’m sure you agree with that. But then there’s the other part of the equation that I hear often enough. If you don’t like the conditions where you work, look for a different job. So that same person has that same right that if they don’t like working in a union shop, they have the option to find another job. I know the world in which we live and I know how people can be. There are some who would make that guys life miserable while he worked next to dues paying members. It’s the nature of the beast. Not saying it’s right, just saying that’s the reality of it.

    Yes, I am familiar with union numbers falling. Everything goes in cycles and I can’t predict the future. The stock market has made significant gains, and what goes up, must come down. Look at the housing market, the job market, our economy. I’ve never had trouble finding a good job. I do my job and treat people with respect. I’m definitely not a lazy union thug and neither are my co-workers. We are skilled employees and we work hard. There’s no fat to cut from the bone. There aren’t workers hanging around doing nothing.

    I’m curious as to which state you reside in. I’m looking forward to July when I take my annual vacation to a best friend’s house who lives on a huge lake in N. Carolina. I’m just a normal person, but I won’t be taken advantage of in the workplace or in my personal life. I do not look through rose colored glasses and I try to take a common sense approach. I told you I’m not an extremist. I also know that most people create their own problems, whether its at work or in their personal lives. I come right out and tell them that I can’t fix everything. There’s just certain things you can’t do and get away with. I can’t fight attendance problems because a person just doesn’t want to come to work. But I can try to get him help if he has an addiction problem of some type. But I would do that regardless of union or non-union. We both know those problems do exist. Those problems don’t discriminate either. I’m for whats right is right and I’ll fight for that. The people I represent know that about me. Just because I am pro-labor, pro-union doesn’t make me a bad guy. Just because a person is in management doesn’t make him a bad guy either. Some of my dearest friends are in management, but not where I work. We have a working relationship, but we aren’t what I would call friends, but we aren’t enemies either. I’m playing golf in the morning and going to enjoy my day off.

    Have a good weekend

  10. 60

    Redteam

    @Norman:

    If a person doesn’t want to be in the union, that’s fine with me, but they should not be able to ride the coattails of gains made in negotiations without paying for that service that is provided.

    Whether fortunately or not, that battle has been fought in some states and determined. The people in those states decided what’s right or wrong for their population. I doubt many RTW states will ever go back the other way, it’s more likely more states will go to RTW.
    I currently live in Louisiana, for last 9 years, but have lived in every southern state except Tn and Tx and Ark. (though where I live is only about 10 mi from TX) and in Oregon. Native of Georgia.
    Have a good weekend.

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