Benghazi-gate…What Did They Know & When Did They Know It?

By 194 Comments 1,402 views

So Petraeus testified behind closed doors and lo and behold:

Former CIA Director David Petraeus testified in a closed-door hearing Friday morning that his agency determined immediately after the Sept. 11 Libya attack that “Al-Qaeda involvement” was suspected — but the line was taken out in the final version circulated to administration officials, according to a top lawmaker who was briefed.

Who took it out?

Who then decided to send Rice out with that misinformation?

Now if we had a Republican in the White House during this whole affair you know the media and the left would be howling for blood. It would be front page news for months on end.

But now? Not so much.

Funny how that happens.

It gets better:

Petraeus’ testimony both challenges the Obama administration’s repeated claims that the attack was a “spontaneous” protest over an anti-Islam video, and according to King conflicts with his own briefing to lawmakers on Sept. 14. Sources have said Petraeus, in that briefing, also described the attack as a protest that spun out of control.

“His testimony today was that from the start, he had told us that this was a terrorist attack,” King said, adding that he told Petraeus he had a “different recollection.”

Petraeus hides an affair, now he hides the truth it seems as well.

Is there a Bernstein and Woodward amongst our MSM ready to break this story wide open?

Seeing as how our colleges are now leftist indoctrination centers I kinda doubt it.

Example number 1…reporter Joy-Ann Reid:

The administration was given an assessment by the CIA. Susan Rice was the person who went to the public and gave that assessment to the public. When that information changed, the information was given to the public that was new. So I am really not sure what it is that Mr. Fournier and othe

rs are looking for because I don't know that there’s anything beyond that.

…So the issue is the word terrorism weren’t used to the public satisfaction? I’m not sure I understand what the scandal is.

I'm not sure what the scandal is?

Wow.

First, the attack itself. Why wasn't more security not authorized when they begged for it. During the attack why didn't Obama send in help during a 7-8 hour attack? Afterwards, even when they KNEW that this was a terrorist attack they deliberately lied to the American people and tried to blame it on a video, and that it was all a protest that got out of hand. How about the CIA annex itself? Was it used to jail and interrogate suspected terrorists?

And now we know that someone redacted the official story and changed it.

Who did it?

Roger Simon has a theory up from a reader:

Consider this possibility … the talking points came from the CIA, and they were altered by the campaign people in Chicago. The coverup has been about hiding the sharing of classified information with campaign officials who don’t have the proper clearance. This sharing of information could also be the source of the earlier leaks such as the virus in Iran’s nuclear program.

I’ve always wondered why David Axelrod appeared on news programs to talk about the administration’s official policies when he was a campaign official. Those of us old enough to remember Watergate will recall the mixing of official administration business with CREEP (Committee to Reelect the President) activities and the Democrat’s outrage at the time. Perhaps we are seeing the results of a similar improper mix.

Roger Simon continues:

I suspect too that, if true, this is more than just an “improper mix.” Legal lines may have been crossed here with a political campaign redacting or helping to redact classified material it should never have seen in the first place.

What may emerge is a kind of government by cabal, a super-government composed of David Axelrod, Valerie Jarrett, Eric Holder, and possibly a few others who operated, in the service of the president, above and beyond our legal and constitutional systems — all the time thinking what they did was for the better good of our country.

Watergate anyone? Of course as we all know, no one died during that scandal.

zp8497586rq

Curt served in the Marine Corps for four years and has been a law enforcement officer in Los Angeles for the last 24 years.

194 Responses to “Benghazi-gate…What Did They Know & When Did They Know It?”

  1. 101

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Skook,

    You say:

    Does he ponder the fate of those who slander the Christian and Jewish faiths? Apparently not, he is using his bully pulpit to castigate Americans who lack compassion for those who wantonly kill Americans, how quaint!

    You stopped reading before you got to the end of the quote:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/obama-the-future-must-not-belong-to-those-who-slander-the-prophet-of-islam/2012/09/26/acb9ab92-0810-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html

    “The impulse towards intolerance and violence may initially be focused on the West, but over time it cannot be contained. The same impulses toward extremism are used to justify war between Sunni and Shia, between tribes and clans. It leads not to strength and prosperity but to chaos. In less than two years, we have seen largely peaceful protests bring more change to Muslim-majority countries than a decade of violence. And extremists understand this. Because they have nothing to offer to improve the lives of people, violence is their only way to stay relevant. They don’t build; they only destroy. […] The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.”

    You have to recall, also, that this was a statement made at the height of what the Right Wing (including on this blog) was referring to “the Islamic world in flames;” “Obama’s foreign policy in tatters.”

    I don’t know how George W Bush would have handled this. Possibly sent the US marines into downtown Cairo to “protect sovereign American territory” from having a foreign flag raised (for all of about an hour – just long enough for a photo op). What Obama did was to tell the Islamic world that the American government does not condone the defiling of their religion, which was not a sign of weakness but a sign of understanding their culture. As if by magic, the “flames” self-extinguished and the foreign policy was again on track (we can argue the latter, perhaps, at a later time).

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  2. 102

    Hard Right

    Curt, I suggest you come to AZ. Many retirees move here for a reason. Plus we are a nice red state with weather that rivals CA.

  3. 103

    Skook

    editor

    Yes, Larry:

    As if by magic, the “flames” self-extinguished and the foreign policy was again on track

    A few lines quelled the savage heart bent on destruction and rage. Unless… the rage wasn’t real. For if Obama is the great uniter of the Islamic Caliphate, why did the attack take place against his “mission”. A film you say, with over twenty views before the “incident,” possibly, but after the steady manipulation of supposed facts, we would be considered dunces not to doubt the ever evolving narrative. Perhaps, we will have four years of no terrorism, now that Obama has charmed the Islamic fundamentalist. Of course we will need to overlook the rockets from Gaza, but those are justified acts of terror.

  4. 104

    retire05

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    And when the so-called art work entitled PissChrist recently went back on exhibit, did Obama comment on that slander of the Christian faith? Has he commented on the rise in hate crimes against American Jews? I see no indication that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. is remotely concerned about any insults against Christians or Jews.

    What he DID say, that you try so diligently to defend, is that “slander against Islam will not be tolerated, oh, and by the way, same goes for those who slander Christians and Jews, because, after all, I must look credible.”

    On what do you base that Obama has even a small clue that he understands Islamic culture? Living in Indonesia for a few years? Having a Muslim half sister that after the age of 10, he was not raised with? Touring Pakistan as a college student? Obama has no more idea of the Islamic culture as he does the culture of people living in Cambodia. No, what he did was bow to Islamic culture; the culture of killing anyone who disagrees with their view.

    You continue to sink lower and lower, Larry, in your attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

  5. 105

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Hard,

    I love Arizona, but in what parallel universe does Arizona’s weather rival ours? When I was a little kid, my family lived in Tucson and, later, my sister practiced medicine in Tempe for 15 years. The weather in both places was similar to Imperial Valley and Palm Springs, which are fine places to visit at highly selected times of year, but unlivable without industrial air conditioning at other times.

    Yesterday, I ran out my front door, down a kilometer to the Pacific Ocean (water temp ranging from 58 to 70 year around, which serves as our natural air conditioner — keeps thing much cooler in the summer and significantly warmer on winter nights – we’ve lived where we do for 34 years without air conditioning and without a single night of frost). Anyway, getting back to yesterday, I then ran down the beach for 9 miles, with pelicans overhead and sand pipers scurrying away, underfoot, and the waves breaking offshore, carrying surfers toward the beach, and a bright blue sky. When I hit the mouth of the Santa Ana River, I turned North, running up a footpath (bicycle path on the other side of the river) to Warner, for a total of 16 miles (in about 2 hr and 20 min). I watched the tidal river gradually dry out to the point where it became a concrete lined flood channel. I could have taken this river route up 70 miles toward what in the winter are snow capped mountains (elevation 10,000 feet), but which at this time of year is simply a beautiful ridge line to follow North with my eyes, as I run toward them, along the river trail. There used to be an annual event called the Cal-Man triathlon. Competitors surfed in the morning. Road their bicycles all the way to the base of a mountain chair lift, and skied in the afternoon. I don’t know anywhere else in the world where this can be done.

    This is both our blessing and curse. The problem, as I wrote, is that too darned many people want to live here. I don’t know anyone who lives here who thinks we need more people. If our ranks thin out, because of economic or governmental issues, it’ll simply be the sort of social Darwinism which seems to be embraced by conservatives.

    I can’t speak for Curt, but I travel a great deal, and, each time I return, I’m thankful for the privilege of living where I do. Different people have different visions of what they call “God’s country.” To me, I’m living in it and no amount of imperfect governance can ever take it away.

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  6. 106

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Retire,

    You’ve made it abundantly clear, by now, that I’m one of those 51% of American people that you don’t care about, because we are “takers” who just want “stuff.”

    Why not simply declare victory at this point? I have proven myself incapable of responding credibly to your withering attacks. It’s surely clear to all, by this time, who’s the winner and who’s the loser.

    – Larry W/HB

  7. 108

    retire05

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    I never said you were a “taker” so once again you are attempting to put words in my mouth that are not there. Nasty habit you have.

    I did say that I view you as an enemy of this nation. Nothing you have said in the last few days has changed my mind.

  8. 109

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Retire,

    You said that the reason I supported ObamaCare was that I probably gained from it economically (which I don’t; it’ll probably end up losing money for me, but I support it, because it’s good for the country). I’m sure I could find the quote.

    P.S. The unemployed poor people for sure can find better places to live, these days, than California. That’s the sort of thing which causes people to move. A lot of people from the dust bowl moved to California, at one point. So now the migration is in the other direction, to an extent. California’s economy works brilliantly for many people; not so well for others. But the idea that California is facing bankruptcy and the rest of the nation will have to bail it out is ludicrous. As stated, we’ve been bailing out the rest of the nation, with our surplus of tax payments, for decades. And we just voted to raise our own taxes; so that we can pay our own bills.

    P.P.S.S. Other big California-related news is that we just phased in CO2 cap and trade, blazing yet another trail. We’ve argued this climate stuff for years (“it will destroy the economy,” which is every bit as much Chicken Little as “the ice is going to melt and we are all going to drown”). But now, thanks to California voluntarily agreeing to finance a real world test of the economic effects of ratifying the Kyoto Treaty, the rest of the nation will have actual data, rather than conjecture.

    Here’s a nice article explaining this, from National Geographic:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/11/121116-california-cap-and-trade/

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  9. 110

    Greg

    @retire05, #110:

    I did say that I view you as an enemy of this nation.

    How should those who have worked constantly to erode public confidence in the democratically elected leader of their own nation, in the sincerity of his devotion to its defense, in the recovery of their nation’s economy, and in the stability of some of its most important long-standing social institutions be regarded?

    I suppose that’s all patriotic to the same extent as an ideology that elevates selfishness to a virtue, worships wealth, and considers its most successful accumulators to be vastly superior to the working men and women who actually create it.

  10. 111

    retire05

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Obamacare is good for the country? How is it good for me, Larry? I have my own insurance and I pay my own bills, when insurance doesn’t cover the entire cost of my medical care. So how do I benefit under the “me, me, me” progressive policies because eventually, one way or another, I will be forced to pay taxes to provide health insurance to those who don’t buy it. How is taking more of my money away from me, in order to give it to someone else, good for the country? That is the most Socialist statement you have ever made.

    As to your state being able to take care of itself; were that true, you would not be in the debt you are in. Raising taxes, applying a distorted Keysenian policy, is NOT going to do what you think it will do. It WILL force those whose wealth is mobile to other tax friendlier states, like Nevada, Texas, Florida, because the unemployed, the welfare recipients and the poor do not pay taxes, at least not federal and state income taxes. And the Dust Bowl was 80 years ago when the majority of Americans were rural, and earned a living from the soil. California is trying its best to kill those jobs, especially in the San Juaquin Valley.

    In December, 2011 the unemployment rates were:

    Kern County – 14.5%
    Madera County – 14.7%
    San Juaquin County – 15.9%
    Sanislaus County – 16.1%
    Fresno County – 16.2%
    Tulare County – 16.2%
    Merced County – 18.7%

    San Juaquin County was down to 13.6% in this month due to the number of people who have been dropped from the unemployment rolls. Your most productive food producers are out of work, Larry. That is undeniable. Why? because of catfish bait and the fact that Californians, like you, place more importance on being politically correct for a false meme of “global warming” than you do about people of that very nation you claim to have the best interests for.

    Your state is well on its way to a total train wreck, and you are too blind to see it.

  11. 112

    Richard Wheeler

    Retire o5 Calls Dr.Weisenthal “an enemy of this nation.”
    F. A.’ers need look no further than this and similar shrill statements from the right to understand why Barack Obama was re-elected.
    The gift that keeps on giving.
    Semper Fi

  12. 113

    retire05

    @Greg:

    In the Declaration of Independence, it says “life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.” It does not say that the federal government will tax one and give that money to you so you can be happy. And the personal persuit of happiness is, in fact, a selfish goal that our Founders realize was good for all of us.

    The only people that worship wealth are clowns like you, Greggie. You worship what you obviously will never have as you are neither industrious enough or bright enough to accumulate any amount of wealth. So, in your worship of wealth, you lust for the weath of others to be given, unfairly, to you.

    And you really think the nation is in recovery? Damn, man, did you even make it out of 5th grade?

  13. 117

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Mata doesn’t seem to be around, and she’s too classy to say it (concerning Mitt Romney) herself; so I’ll say it for you:

    “Mata told you so.”

    Romney’s reprehensible outburst was swiftly denounced by many top Republicans including Tim Pawlenty, Haley Barbour, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (NH), Gov. Bobby Jindal (LA), Gov. Scott Walker (WI), Gov. Susana Martinez (NM), strategist Ana Navarro, Newt Gingrich and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. All of whom regrettably lined up to endorse him before the election. But his latest outrageously offensive statements gave these reluctant supporters the opportunity to finally and publicly demonstrate what they couldn’t throughout the campaign: how much they dislike him.

    The truth is, Romney will go down as perhaps the worst Republican candidate in history, which is why so many of the party’s prescient voices behind closed doors clamored for anyone but Mitt, but it was Mitt with whom they got stuck after the rest of the primary crazies imploded (‘ceptin’ Jon Huntsman who, if the GOP base wasn’t so radical, might’ve actually become president). Now they get to distance themselves from him like a dreaded plague.

    The candidate whom I’m sure could have won and who should have been acceptable to the GOP was ex-Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, but he folded his hand after losing the Iowa STRAW POLL, for goodness sake! If he’d stayed in the race, he could have emerged as the “anybody but Romney” candidate.

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  14. 119

    Richard Wheeler

    Retireo5 You’re the one who questioned whether Greg got out of the 5th grade. Were you home educated by your momma? You can’t spell and you believe there is a difference between lying and not telling the truth.
    What right do YOU have to insult people.

  15. 120

    retire05

    @Richard Wheeler:

    What right do I have to insult people? Ever read the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, Bubba? If not, I highly recommend you do.

    And only a liberal could complain about someone throwing insults as they throw insults (as you have done to me in the past.) So I made a mistake. There I said it. I spelled the word “pursuit” as “persuit.”

    Hire a lawyer. Sue me. That’s what you Marxists do best anyway.

  16. 122

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    What do the words “awesome” and “Marxist” have in common?

    They’ve been cheapened beyond meaning.

    R.W., San Clemente (home of Nixon’s “Western White House”) real estate professional and US Marine war veteran, a “Marxist?”

    Coming out of the same state where an interior design business is “awesome.”

    Or merely an overrated barbecue.

  17. 123

    ilovebeeswarzone

    openid.aol.com/runnswim
    I DON’T TAKE EASY YOUR BASHING MITT ROMNEY,
    he is the right men to fix the problem which will make the downfall of this NATION, and the fact that you talk about him this way show your blindness of what is going on around you.
    and you know why, that is your vote and all the votes from half this country even the vote twice from the same person even the votes from the dead DEMOCRATS, IS THE REASON OF THE DIRECTION
    DIRECTLY TO THE CLIFF, AND ONLY MITT ROMNEY KNEW HOW TO SAVE IT.
    YOUR VOTES BROUGHT THE WHOLE COUNTRY TOWARD THAT CLIFF,
    so there ain’t nothing to brag about from your neck of the wood.

  18. 125

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Bees, It wasn’t me who was bashing Mitt Romney. The article I linked was about Republicans who were bashing Romney.

    Let me ask you something: would you ever again like to see Mitt Romney run for President of the USA on the GOP ticket?

    – Larry W/HB

  19. 126

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Retire,

    You are technically correct, more or less, about the state bond ratings (except that many states aren’t rated; so it’s not “all 50 states”), but the implication is that California is about to default on bond obligations. It’s not true. Current ratings are A1 and A-

    http://www.treasurer.ca.gov/ratings/current.asp

    Here is the definition of an A rating:

    ‘A’—Strong capacity to meet financial commitments, but somewhat susceptible to adverse economic conditions and changes in circumstances.

    Anyway, that’s old news, which is about to change, thanks to the good sense of California voters in passing the recent tax increase:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-07/news/sns-rt-us-california-credit-qualitybre8a62db-20121107_1_tax-measure-credit-quality-tax-increases

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – California’s credit quality looks to improve after voters approved a measure on Tuesday that increases taxes to avoid education spending cuts in the near term and bolster the state’s budget in coming years, Standard & Poor’s Rating Services’ analysts said in a note on Wednesday.

    “The measure does more than temporarily increase operating revenues and, in our view, is the linchpin to the governor’s broader, multiyear strategy for reversing the state’s negative budget position,” the analysts said.

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  20. 127

    ilovebeeswarzone

    openid.aol.com/runnswimwhat question, I don’t think he will want the job,
    he saw more than he expected of the descent in hell,
    and he has a too nice family to drag them into it.
    I don’t blame him a bit,
    he didn’t lose nothing
    you lost a lot more than you know.

  21. 128

    retire05

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Why are you so presumptuous assuming you have to explain credit ratings to me? Do you feel that I am so beneath you intellectually that I don’t understand them?

    Now, you say that not all states have credit ratings.

    http://www.pewstates.org/projects/stateline/headlines/infographic-sp-state-credit-ratings-20012012-85899404785

    Count the states, Larry. How many are there? And gee, California has the distinction of being on the bottom with its A- rating, well, except for 2003 when it was reduced to junk bond status. But for the last, what? three years, you have been the only state with an A- rating, being even worse than Illinois. That’s quite a record, don’t you think?

    And I am quite sure that the people at the Chicago Trib (David Axelrod’s former employer) are quite happy that California is getting ready to make the very same mistakes they are making. Misery loves company, right?

  22. 129

    anticsrocks

    @Greg: You said:

    How should those who have worked constantly to erode public confidence in the democratically elected leader of their own nation, in the sincerity of his devotion to its defense, in the recovery of their nation’s economy, and in the stability of some of its most important long-standing social institutions be regarded?

    Really? I mean do you EVER read the things you type before you hit the Post Comment button?

    What you described is exactly what the left did to George W. Bush. I wonder, did you protest that? Did you say that those who did that to him were wrong?

  23. 131

    Skook

    editor

    Larry, I lived in Huntington Beach for several years, my home was just a short walk from the beach. I swam in the winter when no one was on the beach and I worked out with the MMA boys on Beach Blvd. those are my pleasant memories along with the cool breezes in the summer, but they often don’t go far enough inland to reach the stables. I couldn’t stand the traffic with the frantic rudeness as people cut in front of you to slam on their brakes to turn. Seriously, is this a special driving tactic taught in driver’s ed? I know, courtesy and respect for others is slowly disappearing from the American psyche and people are becoming more like the Italian drivers in Rome, but it is this disregard for courtesy that drives me up the wall. Driving a motorcycle was ten times safer on the track than on the streets of Huntington. It was a great place in the 60’s, there were far fewer people, and the weekend commute from Pendleton was literally a breeze, but sadly, those days are gone forever.

  24. 132

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi, Skook. Thanks for sharing your memories. Several things.

    Go here –> http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/sunset-climate-zone-los-angeles-area-00418000067298/

    And click on the small map (“click to enlarge” caption, just above the “Northern California” map).

    This shows the Orange County coastal region, with Huntington Beach in the center. Note the distinct climate zones. It’s one of the many truly fascinating natural features of California. There is a distinctly different climate in Huntington Beach, Southwest of the 405 freeway, than in adjacent Fountain Valley, Northeast of the 405. We’ll have many days in the summer where it’ll be in the low 70s where I live and up around 100 in Disneyland, less than 15 miles away. You get in your car and drive 5 miles, and you are in a different climate. I used to work at the Long Beach VA hospital and I ran home many evenings, seven miles down Pacific Coast Highway and there would be a ten degree drop in temperature as I crossed the Anaheim Bay bridge, near the wharf where the Pacific fleet uploads ordnance from the Seal Beach naval weapons station.

    Retire says that Calfornia real estate is inflated 4 times over that of Texas, because of our “land use restrictions,” quoting Thomas Sowell, who’s completely wrong. Coastal California is mostly built out completely, in the areas where people really want to live. i suppose that we could put high rises on all the beaches, which, along with the protected wetlands are the main open spaces left. So we might increase housing availability by 20%, which would have a negligible effect on housing prices, but where would we put the extra cars?

    Moving into driving characteristics, California is notorious for road rage. It’s no fun at all to sit in traffic and people tend to be very territorial about their little patch of open space in the lane ahead. Californians hate being “cut off” more than anything. Curt, please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this. But here’s the interesting thing, we don’t honk our car horns — at least we don’t do it to the extent that they do in the East and big midwestern cities. I don’t know why that is, actually. It’s just a cultural thing, like referring to the coast as the “beach,” rather than the “shore.”

    The following are the greatest current employer needs in California, regarding jobs being advertised:

    Physical Therapists
    Occupational Therapists
    Software Engineers – Systems and Apps
    Sales Representatives
    Occupational Therapy Assistants
    Physical Therapy Assistants
    Store Managers
    Project Managers
    Administrative Assistants
    Salespeople
    Senior Software Engineers
    Account Executives
    Assistant Store Managers
    Financial Advisors
    Registered Nurses (RNs)
    Healthcare Volunteers – unpaid positions.
    Customer Service Representatives
    Pharmacists
    Application Architects
    Procurement Managers
    Business Analysts
    Online Teachers – High School core courses.
    Document Translators
    Financial Analysts
    Mechanical Engineers and Systems Engineers (tied)

    http://pattyinglishms.hubpages.com/hub/Top_California_Jobs

    The following are the greatest projected needs over the next 4 years:

    Network Systems and Data Communications Analysts
    Computer Software Applications Engineers
    Forensic Science Technicians
    Skin Care Specialists
    Veterinary Technologists and Technicians
    Home Health Aides
    Occupational Therapist Assistants
    Mathematical Scientists
    Traffic Technicians
    Aircraft Cargo Handling Supervisors
    Physical Therapist Assistants
    Pharmacy Technicians
    Dental Hygienists
    Substance Abuse and Behavioral Disorder Counselors
    Dental Assistants
    Veterinarians
    Athletic Trainers
    Special Education Teachers for Preschool through Elementary School Grades
    Biomedical Engineers
    Multi-Media Artists and Animators
    Microbiologists
    Physical Therapist Aides
    Ambulance Drivers and Attendants
    Medical Assistants
    Database Administrators

    >>>>>

    Now, the world is changing, the country is changing, the State is changing. Workers that don’t have skills which match employer needs will remain unemployed or will move. The overall tax burden in California is 1.3% higher than the average for the nation as a whole, but the average income is 7% higher. So it’s ridiculous to claim that people are moving out of California because they want to pay lower taxes. What’s the greater problem…1.3% higher taxes or 400% greater housing costs, combined with more traffic congestion? Use some common sense.

    As I said earlier, the problem with California is not too few people, it’s too many people. No one is pro-growth. Conservatives are just as anti-growth as liberals — more so, even, in the places where people most want to live. What’s going on in California now is a much needed correction — what Mitt Romney would call “self-deportation.” If you ask the average Californian what are the top 50 problems facing the state, I doubt that “people moving out of the state” would make ANYONE’s top 50 list. It’s something that seems to concern residents of Texas a lot more than it concerns residents of California.

    It’s supposed to be a big deal when a mature California tech company opens up a new operation out of State. But that’s just domestic outsourcing, akin to international outsourcing. Businesses should locate various facets of their operations where it makes the most sense to locate them. Hooray for free trade. If this motivates people to leave California, because their skill sets are a better match for out of state employers, then that’s just fine. As I said, we’ve got a glut of people, not a shortage of people. Times change; people migrate. It’s how North America got populated in the first place.

    But California has led the nation in innovation during my lifetime and will continue to do so. Laborers vote with their feet. Venture capitalists vote with their wallets. What California does today, the rest will do tomorrow.

    Here’s just a thought experiment: are conservatives, by temperament and nature, attracted to risk taking and, therefore, be in a position to make chance observations which lead to breathrough discoveries and industries?

    Like Mark Zuckerberg, the Google founders, the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet (innovative trader) and most people in Silicon Valley are Democrats. Conservatives tend to be the old money/old industry types: oil, construction, real estate, banking, etc. The vast majority of research scientists are Democrats. Even research engineers in places like Stanford tend to be Democrats. And research MDs in medical schools are largely Democrats.

    Conservatives are, well, conservative. And that’s just another reason why Texas will never be the birth mother of breakthrough innovation, the way that California is.

    Nobel Prize Laureates:

    California 79
    Texas 8
    MD Anderson (nation’s largest cancer institute, in Houston) 0

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  25. 133

    Skook

    editor

    Interesting stats Larry, however, I liked the coastal climate: it was the driver mentality that got to me. Unless, I was working in town, the commute to the 405 was tough and to get to Temecula was more practical for a chopper than a car. LOL However, traffic wasn’t my only motivation; multiple properties, financial pressures, and the declining economic situation were considerations as well. I still live in SoCal, but in one of the beautiful winter areas. Like Curt, I worry about retirement and the retirement dollars relevant to increases in cost of living and taxes.

    I have been fortunate to travel in my work and I have seen a variety of areas. My favorite place and first choice for summer living will be the mountains of BC, but I am reluctant to sit out those weeks where the temperature hovers between 40 and 60 below for the daily high temperature. It is a great time to sit by a wood stove in a log cabin and write or go on a few snowmobile trips, but battling nature to scratch out a living with horses or ranching no longer appeals to me in the extreme cold. I can do it if it is necessary; however a few weeks every winter would be optimal or perfect for me.

    A winter property in the desert is nice and a sailboat is preferable to a townhouse on the coast, since there is very little traffic on the open water and with sails, you don’t need to buy much fuel.

    Oh, when I say I swam in the winter, I mean I swam parallel to the beach for approximately a mile or so, and fighting the currents was part of the workout. It’s a pity, but I can’t run long distances because of a lifetime of pushing a body to the max and enduring the inevitable joint damage. I envy your ability to run these long distances. My significant other is from the running tribe of Mexico and when we were in HB, I decided to show her what running was all about. We ran for miles and she never stopped talking; I was having cardiac arrest and she was still talking as if everyone can run a marathon while carrying on a conversation. Eventually, she decided we should stop running or else she had run out of things to talk about. My heels were so bruised from the abuse of running on pavement without conditioning, I was lame for weeks. That was also my last great run. It was a well-learned lesson in humility for me.

  26. 136

    Smorgasbord

    @Richard Wheeler: #117

    Retire05 speaks of the dumbing down of our citizens while twice referencing ” the persuit of happiness.” UGH

    I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that if a person wants to be dumbed down to be happy, they have the right to pursue it? Is that your goal? If so, it shouldn’t be long before you attain it. You are almost there.

  27. 137

    Dc

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Tried to reply to this the other night but had internal server error.

    Not sure where they are getting the information as the link to the article you quoted did not work for me. But, I’m quite sure it must have been another “anonymous source” because the it’s factually not part of the record yet. So, I wouldn’t gloat too soon there openid.

    The alterations that were made..and the arguments that Rice made..were not insignificant differences. Removing the context of a terrorist attack involving AlQueda in some way (direct or indirect) is a very serious difference compared to a bunch of shop keepers throwing sandals over a video about the prophet. Saying Clapper did this to simply hide the fact that AlQueda was involved would imply that the report still left the impression that it was a “direct attack” unrelated to the video…but simply did not say who did it. But, that’s not what we got. Not only were references to terrorism and terrorist attack removed…the document was written to downplay “any” direct attack and focus on the video. Thats NOT the intelligence we had…even at the time.

    So, whoever admits to this…is going to have to admit that they fundamentally altered the meaning of the intel we had at the time…not just that they removed specific references to AlQueda. That’s a difference with a distinction.

    Clapper may very well fall on a sword for the president. In my opinion that’s what all these little suboffices created by the president are….to insulate the WH. But, it’s not going to ultimately make this go away. Because even after the chase this squirrel as far up the tree as they can….we are “still” left with the bigger questions/failures about what happened/led up to the attack. There is “intel” for that too. And if it turns out that some of those were also “altered” by Mr Clapper for WH and State Dept use…..there’s going to be even more investigations.

  28. 138

    Richard Wheeler

    Smorg and Bees Good morning. I greatly enjoy my morning coffee while reading what you two have conjured up during the long night. Wonderful diversion.

    Bees I expect Romney will enjoy a happy and healthy retirement in beautiful La Jolla, about one hour south.

  29. 139

    ilovebeeswarzone

    Rich Wheelrt
    I wish MITT ROMNEY AND HIS FAMILY THE BEST, AND GIVE HIM MY ADMIRATION FOR SHOWING SUCH CLASS IN FRONT OF SUCH VICIOUS ATTACKS FROM THE LOWEST OF AMERICANS EVER BEEN IN POWER,
    MITT ROMNEY would have help the young to regain their lost soul and pride to become the best of AMERICA, INSTEAD OF FOR SOME VOTE FOR MEDIOCRITY.he would have bring back GOD and the FLAG FLYING high
    above the MOUNTAIN FOR THE PROUD, AND THE PEOPLE TO PROFIT FROM THE LEARNING OF THE 10 COMMANDS WHICH ARE FORGOTTEN BY MANY AMERICANS WHO LISTEN TO THE PROPAGANDA,
    THAT CORRUPTION IS FUN AND THE MORE THE BETTER.
    A RIGHTEOUS MAN CAME AND THE PEOPLE SHOT THEIR DOOR TO HIS WORDS OF HOPE FOR THE FUTURE,
    a very sad time for AMERICA.

  30. 140

    Common Sense

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim: Greetings from Carlsbad, CA. Your observations of what California and Conservatives are is somewhat incomplete to say the least. I know that Orange County has shifted its demographics just like San Diego County. I have lived in both for significant periods of time. The issue is one of illegal immigration and the severe drain of resources expended on these illegals. You can visit any ER, Police Station, or Public School and the drain will be self-evident. Illegals are dumb as foxes and know exactly the avenues to extract state and federal dollars from our system. In addition the liberal politicians fuel this drain by social programs that are driving California further and further into irreversible debt. Now watch the taxes go up as Democrats have successfully garnered the majorities they have bought. You think it’s bad now, just wait and watch our taxes go up. Like first move will be to triple our auto registration as well as Moon Beams tax increase that they successfully got passed. California will now reap what they have sown and yes more businesses will be leaving for other states and yes Texas will be the beneficiary of much of California’s foolishness. The drain in resources due to illegals can NOT be denied.

  31. 142

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Skook (#135):

    I love cold ocean swimming. I’m a masters ocean swimmer and, in addition to doing the sort of swimming you did, I try to do at least one race (1-3 miles) per year. My favorites are the late August swim at Corona del Mar (1 mile); the 2 mile Newport to Balboa Pier in July and the 3 mile Seal Beach Rough Water swim (which I’ve done more than a half dozen times). But that’s nothing: when my just-turned 99 year old father was in his 70s, he three times did the 10 mile Huntington Beach Pier to Seal Beach Pier swim. My older daughter, on Sept 26, 2009 swam the English Channel. At the time she was the 31st fastest swimmer (male and female) ever to have done the swim (out of about 1500 who’d done it at the time). Here’s the documentation on the official web site (list of the successful swims of 2009; she had the third fastest time that year: http://www.dover.uk.com/channelswimming/swims/2009/

    Here’s a video I shot of her doing a 5 hour training swim in San Francisco Bay (some nice shots of the SF waterfront; I’ve gotten lots of compliments on the video):

    http://vimeo.com/5179713

    Tell you what: I’m definitely planning on having a Flopping Aces open house/party at my house this winter. I’m waiting for Curt to give me the best day for him (as he’d obviously be the guest of honor). I’d like to invite you to come down early (you could sleep over as my house guest) and we can go for a swim in what should at the time be 58 degree water and then warm up in my backyard sauna (I’m half Finnish, and we’ve gotta have those to stay alive) and then go party. Write to me at the email address which you’ll have no difficulty finding.

    My wife and I go for a bay swim (about 400 meters from our house) a couple of times a week, up until Oct 15, when my wife goes back to pool swimming, because she doesn’t like it when the water gets below 65. I stopped swimming entirely after Oct 15, because I’m training to win my age group in the Surf City Half Marathon on Super Bowl Sunday (bold of me to announce my intent in advance, but it’s great to risk a bit of public humiliation to help in the motivation department). Anyway, I want to lose about a pound of upper body muscle before the race as well as some general body fat. So I won’t be cold water acclimated and I won’t be in swimming shape, but it’s always fun.

    Every Christmas day for the past 25 years, I’ve had a ritual where I do a run around Davenport Island, jump off the bridge there into the bay, and swim 1K and then jog home and take a sauna. Here’s a short video of this ritual on Christmas Day 2008 (I had this crazy idea to try and grow a beard back then; it didn’t work).

    http://vimeo.com/2649943

    – Larry W/HB

  32. 143

    retire05

    @Common Sense:

    While I admit that California has beautiful scenery, I have also pointed out that you can’t eat “climate” or “geology.” California’s problems are going to continue to exacerbate due to wrong headed politicians and people like Larry who support their left wing agendas.

    California now has “by a wide margin — the highest level of poverty of any state, with nearly a quarter of its 38 million resident in that category.

    Meanwhile, the CBPP calculated, state by state, gaps in various family income brackets and found that California has the third largest ‘income inequality‘ between those in the highest and lowest levels, and the second largest between those in the highest and middle quintiles.”

    Remember, those in the lower and middle class can’t afford to move. The wealthy of California can.

    One of the major problems California has is with education. So while Larry touts UCLA and UC-Berkley, it doesn’t matter how great your universities are if your elementary students don’t have the ACTs and SATs to get into the school. In-migration has slowed down in California, and now much of the school kids are California born. But those union run schools are failing the kids of California miserably. Checking with the NIE, Texas, the state that Larry seems to think is nothing more than pickup trucks and cows, consistantly scores better with elementary, and secondary, test scores than California.

    In science, among all students, white, Hispanic, Asian, black, lower income levels and English proficency, Texas exceeds the national average while California is below the national average. Same with math, and in 2007, the last year of reading scores, Texas exceeds the national average while California is below the national average. Yet, the average dollar amount spent per student is greater in California than it is in Texas. And Texas is closing the gap between white/Asian students and black/Hispanic students. California is not.

    Larry would have you believe that the increased tax rates will really affect only the wealthy in California. While most logical thinking people realize that sales taxes affect the poorest the worst, the increase in state income tax will slam the middle class as well.

    “The top middle-class tax rate, 9.3 percent, also kicks in around $48,000 of income, by far the highest of any state. California is the only state whose income tax is both “progressive” (aimed at the rich), because the top rate is now 13.3 percent, and “regressive” (aimed at the middle-class) because of that 9.3 percent kicking in at $48,000. Indeed, $48,000 put syou in the lower middle class. You can’t even raise a family on that in California.

    2. The crummy K-12 government school system means you need to pay for tutors or private-school tuition. That means you have to make even more money — which is taxes at the 9.3 percent rate!”

    California got so hopped up on high tech jobs that it forgot that the middle class needs industry jobs as well, for a healthy middle class. So while the unemployment rate in some counties in California are the highest in the nation (mostly in farming counties due to California’s green peacenik attitudes) and housing cost are now on the rise, the middle class, who will bear the brunt of Governor Moonbeams’ tax increases, are being squeezed out of more of their wealth. Remember, Larry claims to support Obamacare because he feels it is good for the people of this nation, yet he supports putting more weight on the backs of California’s middle class with more and more tax hikes.

    For those who are in highly specialized careers, like Larry, they will do OK. But for the rest of California, the middle class who are simply trying to eek out a living to support their families, they don’t seem to matter to people like Larry. Nothing, to him, is more important than “climate” and “geology.”

  33. 145

    openid.aol.com/runnswim

    Hi Retire,

    I find it interesting that you tout average statistics like that. Why don’t you compare Texas with some truly socialist countries, like Finland, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, even France, with regard to poor people and health care and life expectancy, and educational achievement?

    California is the USA on steroids. High risk/high reward. It’s no longer a state where the average person without a special skill set can make a living, especially considering the high cost of living. So those who aren’t able to adjust to the changing economic realities are, as you have been so helpful to point out, self-deporting themselves. Whatever problems California has, a shortage of people isn’t one of them.

    You (Retire) were the one who brought up college admissions test scores. Where, here are the figures for 2012, by state. Click on the states of interest.

    http://testprep.about.com/od/satscores/l/bl_SAT_Scores_By_State.htm

    Our state universities (and we have the greatest state university system in the nation, bar none) have never had such an excess of highly qualified applicants. Admissions have never been more competitive.

    If you want to know the future prospects of an overpopulated state, it’s a big mistake to focus on the bottom and ignore what’s happening at the top. When a state has grown beyond its resources, population wise, it reaches a point where the ability to provide a job or even a quality education for every resident reaches the breaking point. That’s where California is right now. The solution is to self-redistribute Californians to other parts of the nation where the redistributed individuals can find greater success and happiness, while those remaining in the state pony up more in the way of taxes to meet our financial obligations, as we are now doing, under the more than capable leadership of Jerry Brown, whom none other than Reagan’s economic guru Art Laffer has called the best Governor that California has ever had.

    http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/2010/11/11/art-laffer-jerry-brown-was-californias-best-governor/37346/

    With regard to said tax hikes, they aren’t being imposed by Sacramento liberals, they are supported by a majority vote of the people themselves. As pointed out before, California’s overall tax burden is 1.3% higher than the average for the nation. It’s a very small premium to pay. The far greater burden is simply cost of living, especially cost of housing, which is a function of overpopulation. Manhattan Island and San Francisco (a virtual island) have the same problems; they can’t be solved by paving over Central Park, the Presidio, and Golden Gate Park. The four fold higher real estate prices in Huntington Beach compared to comparable areas in Texas can’t be solved by paving over our Central Park or putting up high rises on the beach.

    – Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

  34. 146

    James Raider

    @retire05: #145,

    But those union run schools are failing the kids of California miserably. Checking with the NIE, Texas, . . . . consistantly scores better with elementary, and secondary, test scores than California.

    An observation from personal experience: Some years back I donated computers to high schools in various States and in very varied socioeconomic environments – all related to a private pet project. Efforts to encourage interest in others to follow suit in financially supporting the inspiration of ‘discovery’ more often than not resulted in ‘dear in the headlights’ reactions from acquaintances in wealthy California enclaves such as Palo Alto. About the same for the Park Ave crowd. However, in Texas, the reaction was always positive, even enthusiastic.

    I generally found in Texas a pro-active interest in supporting education, particularly for students in poor neighbourhoods, while in California, there was a much more passive support. This is obviously a generality and not applicable to all neighbourhoods in CA. While I’ll also note that Northern California is my favourite geographical environment, and has always been a great place to “do business,” it has not been the best place to ‘incorporate’ a business, . . . . nor has it been the most benevolent when it came to directly financing education of the more needy corners of society.

  35. 147

    retire05

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Larry, why would I compare Texas to foreign nations when Texas, as well as California, are both member states of the United States. That is just a diversionary tactic of yours, but not worth the effort it took you to type it. One state should be compared to other states, not foreign nations.

    You also seem to think that the high risk/high reward policy in California is a good thing. But what happens when your entire state is nothing but high wage earners with advanced education? Who grows your food? Who builds your homes? Who pumps your gas, bags your groceries, stocks the shelves of those grocery stores, works the retail shop like the ones on Rodeo Drive? You see, you will become a truely failed state if you try to eliminate the low/middle income earners by “relocating” them to another state. Is that your desire? Make California into a mini kingdom full of bloated egos?

    And yes, those who cannot adjust to California’s economic realities are self deporting, as you see an increase in illegal immigration. But the problem is that kind of immigration brings with it more and more uneducated/undereducated who are not going to leave with the lucrative social welfare system that California has. What percentage of your income are you willing to pay to the state to maintain that social structure?

    Now, to your link on SATs; I don’t know where the author obtained those scores. I took my data from National Assessment of Educational Progress/Institute of Education Sciences, not some obscure website. The test scores I quoted were basically from 8th/12 grade test scores. If you dispute my findings, take it up with them. They provide the numbers, and bar/graph charts to back up their stats.

    No, California has not grown beyond its resources. It has, for decades now, failed to utilize those resources. Can you dispute the folly of the San Juaquin Valley? The missed tax revenue from drilling off the California coast? The refusal to build refineries and power plants? California has has some land control laws that have concentrated the majority of the population into selected areas when there is pleny of land available for habitation by humans. It is the “green” mentality on steroids. Policy before people. And basically, your solution, is to re-distribute your low/middle income citizens to other states. How does that work? Do you round them up and put them on cattle cars with tags that state where they will be “re-distributed” to if they won’t “self” deport? Damn, man, that sure sounds a bit Marxist to me.

    No, Larry, your policies, the policies of the left wing, will not work for California to pull it out of its financial crisis. But only time will prove that to you, and by then, California, along with Michigan, Illinois and New York, will be the poster states for what to do wrong.

  36. 148

    Wm T Sherman

    Actually, Larry believes the entire world is overpopulated with the unworthy. Some sort of unfortunate, but nevertheless useful mass die-off will free up valuable real estate for the people who really deserve it. “It’s a necessary step in our evolution,” he intones, his eyes glowing. “They shall all be swept aside. The Hippocratic Oath doesn’t apply to insects.”

  37. 149

    retire05

    @Wm T Sherman:

    Well, I was a bit taken aback with his “self” re-distribution statement. Remember, Larry is a physician who took the Hippocratic oath to do no harm. Evidently, he feels that increasing state income taxes on lower middle income wage earners in California is not harmful, nor is creating an environment where those people have no option but to leave California, which would certainly create a hardship.

  38. 150

    ilovebeeswarzone

    Wm T Sherman
    I hope to think I’m right by the way I read openid mindset that the other are different,
    nothing against openid but he has a touch of me and mine are better humans because we have the wealth,
    and that give me the right to devaluate you and you and you.
    bye

Trackbacks/Pingbacks