I had no idea! Silly me…when I grew up I thought there were distinctions between boys and girls; but this isn’t that. It’s about “inclusiveness” for fear of being stigmatized with the dirty-word labels, sexist/bigoted/racist/xenophobic/homophobic:
The Girl Scouts of Colorado has flip-flopped on a decision not to let a 7-year-old boy join their organization, now saying he is welcome even though he’s not a girl.
Bobby Montoya plays with Barbie dolls and My Little Ponies. He’s a boy, but dresses and identifies as a girl. And just like his older sister, he decided he wanted to join the Girl Scouts.
But that wasn’t quite so easy, when a local troop leader told the family three weeks ago Bobby couldn’t join because he has “boy parts.”
“I said, ‘Well, what’s the big deal?’” Felisha Archuleta, Bobby’s mom, told Denver NBC affiliate KUSA-TV this week. “
~~~ Bobby, who has been playing with girl toys since he was 2 years old, was left in tears when he was first told he couldn’t join the organization.
Well boo-frickin’-hoo! I don’t care that he likes to play with Barbie dolls; I don’t care what his sexual orientation may be after he hits puberty. But the fact remains that he is not a girl. No matter how much you may wish you were something different, you are what you are. The kid has “boy parts.” That’s just the reality. I’m under 6 feet tall. If there were a club for tall people, should I be allowed in simply because I wish to be tall and because I perceive myself to be tall (at least on the inside- where it counts, right)?
Does this mean he gets to pee in girls’ restrooms, too? Why is it necessary to blur distinctions between the sexes? There are any number of societal rules & norms that may be inconvenient for me, personally, but is healthy for a society as a whole. It is the height of narcissism and selfishness to think you always have to get your way.
So the boy can’t be a girl scout (or shouldn’t be, rather). Big deal! Life is filled with setbacks and not getting your way. Better he learns to suck it up at age 7 that we don’t always get our way in life than he finds that out at age 17.
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
By the time he’s 17, let’s hope things are easier for people like him than they are now. Personally, I think it’s a great lesson for his peers in tolerance and acceptance. And why not have unisex bathrooms? You don’t see anything behind the stall doors anyway, and it sure would make the lines to the restrooms seem more fair…
(and as a shorter person, I feel your pain, Word. There have been studies done that show taller people being treated more respectfully than shorter ones. I even experienced a difference in how people treated me when I grew facial hair. Wouldn’t be nice if humanity evolved past that way of thinking?)
I suggest that Skookum should take this nancy out into the bush for about three weeks. The kid would man up and loose this sick affinity for the girl scouts.
Young liberal males have to be able to go somewhere as the Boy Scouts only allow BOYS. ;P
@Cary: I think it’s up to the boy to discover within himself tools to cope with living in a world where he is living outside of the norm. He can still lead a happy life without society creating a bathroom for boys, a bathroom for girls, a bathroom for boys with transgender issues, and a bathroom for girls with transgender issues.
As for a unisex bathroom….you really trust men to behave themselves? How about locker rooms?
No. 😉
I don’t mind being short. I’ve developed a healthy enough ego and self-esteem to not care so much. It has its own advantages, too. And I can still kick most people’s @sses in even when they outweigh/outsize me.
Not tryin’ to brag like a little Napoleon…just sayin’. 😉
This is the crap that happens when Conservatives concentrate on making money at the expense of being active in politics.
Time to pay the pieper!
@Wordsmith:
I get where you’re coming from, and in part agree with you. Though I do think it’s great to see parents accepting and supporting their children at such an early age, and helping them build a strong self esteem. People may think they’re too young to know, but how soon did you start noticing girls? We all may be naive at that age, but we know what we like to look at. Gender identity is, IMO, very different from sexual preference, but those I’ve spoken to about it all say they knew at a very young age, and it makes sense to believe them.
Thought I’d leave my two cents before the homophobic, gender stereotyping comments came in, which I know don’t reflect your point of view. But they sure came in fast, didn’t they?!
And I don’t mind being small, either… my point was about people who look at you and treat you differently because of it. Guess they change their minds when they get their asses kicked. Much like this “nancy boy” will hopefully do to some macho thug who harasses him when he’s 17…
There’s been a lot of discussion, over the years, about whether Scouts should be co-ed. One of the best arguments I’ve heard for sex segregated Scouting is that it allows the kids a last refuge from sexuality. Boys can be boys in all their disgusting glory, and girls the same, without the disruption and drama of sexual competition and that whole crazy dynamic. They get plenty of that in school, anyway.
Maybe Congress needs to pass the Defense of Traditional Gender Definition Scouts Act. 🙂
@Wordsmith: Funny and sad at the same time!
Wow Cary, could you be more whiney? One comment that is semi-gender related and suddenly it becomes, “homophobic, gender stereotyping comments came in, which I know don’t reflect your point of view. But they sure came in fast, didn’t they?!”
Typical liberal victimism.
More proof that the entire liberal Weltanschauung is not reality-based. (Hint: I didn’t choose a German word from the Weimar Republic by accident.)
@Hard Right: Typical bigoted rationalization and deflection. Your response doesn’t even deny it. It’s the kid’s own fault that such venom is unleashed on him, right? Speak up against it, and that’s not cool in your eyes.
You are doing nothing other than demonstrating typical liberal demonization of someone who dares to disagree with you.
Someone called him a “nancy” and you pretend FA is homophobe and gay bashing central. I’d say the real bigot here is you.
@Hard Right:
Wow, that took balls to write what you just wrote. Pot, meet the kettle.
@Hard Right: I never said that all of FA was “homophobe and gay bashing central” Never implied it, either. I simply said I expected to read such comments – and there it was.
With your comments, you can choose to join me in denouncing the name calling of this little boy as a “nancy” or you can denounce me for speaking up against it. Your choice. Makes no difference to me. It’s clear where you stand, having made the choice already. I hope you make a different choice in real life, where it actually matters. You don’t have to like me or my politics to agree that such language, especially towards a child, is wrong. But it’s up to you.
I think if ANY Organization is self sufficient… meaning their expenses are covered by their members or donations, which if I am not mistaken, is how the Girl Scouts operate, then I think they can allow or not allow a “person” to join, it’s their prerogative…… (this one for obvious reasons)….. What was wrong with Bobby joining the Boy Scouts again??
Not being allowed in the Girl Scouts would “hurt “HIS” his ego/feelings”?? Huh?? What about all the Girl Scouts – does it matter HOW THEY FEEL??? Or, [ is it only Bobby ?Boy’s? “ego”/ feelings ] THAT “really” COUNT or MATTER here??
Seriously…. I swear this Country is getting more bizarre by the day….
You are one sad, sick motherfucker. 🙁
@Hard Right:
I think you’d get HARD RIGHT AWAY for the right guy. LOL!
@Bernie McMatin:
@Wilson Pick-it: Pick a username and use it, do not use two usernames. And while you’re at it keep the cussing to a minimum….
1) You most certainly implied FA was a bigoted site or at least a site full of bigots. Don’t try to claim otherwise because it’s there for everyone to see.
2) Condemn him for calling the boy a “nancy”? I take that to be a name for someone that is a wuss. I disagree as he’s only 7, but my failure to condemn him for doing so is hardly proof of my beliefs on homosexuality no matter how desperately you want it to be. Again, sounds like you are the one with hate issues.
3) You should have known the victim/moral superiority game wasn’t going to go unchallenged here. We aren’t afraid to to tell you where you can stick your phony outrage.
I think they made the right choice in saying no. Girl Scouts for girls. Boy Scouts for boys.
This could explain why I got kicked out of Cub Scouts for eating a brownie
@Hard Right: Actually, the Girl Scouts policy is yes. The particular leader didn’t realize. You can continue to stamp positions onto me which I didn’t say… you’re right, it’s there for everyone to see.
Just so you can stop pretending not to know what “nancy boy” means…. let me help out:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS439US439&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define+nancy
A little different from “wuss”, though probably also abusive when used on a seven year old:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS439US439&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define+nancy#pq=define+nancy&hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=11&gs_id=g&xhr=t&q=define+wuss&qe=ZGVmaW5lIHd1c3M&qesig=mTWJ0wGlNFbzEI3TTdHPig&pkc=AFgZ2tknKnjQ0sv_FiHeyhNDigRKjH47f3IjTQY_0cNTy3CG6scNVBYa6Ed4WEn7F2D38TdSmnHLoIogDeltDxpuu3C0YpMD4g&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS439US439&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=define+wuss&aq=0&aqi=g2g-v2&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=f10181c958c90d45&biw=1366&bih=667
Or do you use your own definitions of words?
And where can I stick my “phoney” outrage? Be specific please….
Now excuse me, I have a baseball game to watch. You know… a “boy” thing.
WORDSMITH, VERY GOOD POST, SO DIFFERENT, BUT SO INTO THE REALITY,
his mother gave him girl toy at 2 and 3 and 4 , 5 ,6,, she saw it coming from the beginning,
incredible, from the second birthday, she could have deter, the tendancy.
@Cary:
You stamped yourself. I simply called you on it. Typical lib denial of reality and what really drives your beliefs.
Again, him calling him a name and me not condemning him for it doesn’t mean I approve or that I hate the gay community. Nice try, but your guilt games don’t work here. If it makes you feel good about yourself due to being “morally superior” to me, then by all means call me a homophobe.
Thought you were a man. Then again, you are a liberal. Boy is right as you have never matured mentally.
@Hard Right: Are we playing the last word game again? That’s fun until it gets repetitive. How ’bout I let you win? You get the last word. Make it good.
Try to do better than this lame insult.
Ah yes, pretending to be the mature one. Look, we can see you’re trying to save face now. Here’s an idea, don’t libel people who commit the crime of disagreeing with you and maybe you won’t get embarrassed like you have been. Really, you make this much too easy.
I see you made it a point to pick a search that brought up the definition that jibed with your slanted views while ignoring those that didn’t.
http://www.answers.com/topic/nancy-2
http://dictionary.babylon.com/nancy/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nancy
(see definition #2 )
As we can see it CAN be a slur against a gay man. However, it can also be used as a way of saying a man is effeminate. I took it to mean the boy was effeminate…because he is.
I feel for the kid because if he continues to identify as a girl as he grows up, he’s in for a tough ride.
@Hard Right: Oh please, you know damn well what was meant. You can’t play “smarter than you” and “I’m so naive” at the same time. Urban dictionary… haha. Guess I can pull up wikipedia then, too. It works the same way.
As far as “libel” – I’ll wait for my summons. Stating opinions doesn’t fall under “libel.” – especially under an anonymous user name – impossible to damage your reputation when we don’t even know who you are. Now who’s desperate?
Try again.
Helloooo……Is there a FATHER somehwere in this family to smack the crap outa this kids mother???
@Dave Brickner:
Common misconception. I’m not a Dr. Phil fan, but he covers the subject quite well.
http://youtu.be/GR1hV4ERlEE
Brickner has a valid point. I’ve seen boys raised as little girls by neurotic women; actually, many of the little boys in upscale neighborhoods in SoCal seem to be raised like little girls, whether there is a man at home or not.
Chicken Thief also has an excellent point. Boys need to be exposed to men and the outdoor life in my opinon. There are other avenues, but learning to hunt, fish, track, and read sign are excellent skills to guide a young person through life. Learning how to survive in the mountains will probably convince a boy to leave his Barbie Doll with the girl next door.
His mother would have a coronary, but if the young boy climbed up and down some steep mountains and crossed a few wild rivers on the back of a horse, he would learn the importance of common sense and of being cool, calm, and collected when mistakes are extremely costly.
So before you scream that I am sexist, my grown kids are anxious for me to teach my grandaughters these same skills when they are old enough. When they have killed their first moose or elk, packed the meat out of the mountains, and cut it and wrapped it for the freezer; they will have a much more clear idea of what the basics of life are all about. They will learn lessons that will be used under many circumstances and lessons that will never be forgotten.
They won’t grow up thinking meat comes wrapped in cellophane without death or blood. I can hardly wait to get started
@Skookum 2: That all sounds wonderful and useful, Skook. As a city dweller myself, among my favorite things to do is to head upstate to my friends’ stables. Sometimes I ride, and sometimes I just muck stalls. Incredibly valuable experience for anyone of any age or gender. I completely support you in that. I’m sure a little girl will find her dolls rather trite toys once she’s been on the back of a horse, as well! And people today don’t have nearly enough respect for where their food comes from… I wholeheartedly applaud you for that. Though it really is something entirely separate from gender identity or roles, especially since you have stated that these skills and knowledges are valuable for either.
Cary, I was working under the supposition that the boy in question may have been given dolls to play with instead of traditional boy toys. Women who hate men often resort to such evil devices to exact revenge on men and to prove that she can raise a new type of man that won’t act like the stereotype man that she hates. There was no father mentioned, if he is in the house, I will assume he is overwhelmed by a woman on a mission. A mission to sacrifice the childhood and life of her son to feed her neurosis.
Cary, we are divorced from the uglier side of life. Some people would starve before they could kill to eat. They envision life through a perverted lens of cartoonish hype. If people understand life and what they pay other humans to do for them so that they may eat, they will be in touch with the real human inside. Finding yourself is integral to survival, whether you are in the Adirondacks, the Everglades, or the wilds of the Yukon. Knowing the nature of the human animal is instrumental in dealing with people and the complexities of life, regardless of gender. Unfortunately, women go to great lengths to protect their children from the true meanings of life and of what it takes to survive when the power goes out.
@Skookum 2: I hope you will watch the Dr. Phil segment I posted above. It’s in 5 parts which you can easily navigate. The very dynamic you mention is covered. While I’m sure that it does occur, in many cases it’s a myth.
@Skookum 2: I agree with that almost entirely… though I do think that men can be overprotective as well… particularly of their little girls. Another benefit from this which you haven’t mentioned, is that something grew and gave its life to sustain us. Not just with meat, but with fruits and vegetables. An apple takes an entire season to grow before it’s ripe enough to pick. If we all had such awareness, perhaps we’d throw less away.
The other segments was quite balanced, here’s the segment I was actually looking for:
A seven-year-old does not do something like this of their own volition. The boy was put up to this entirely, 100% by his mother. It is a vanity project to feed the ego of an adult at the expense of the boy, the Girl Scouts, and anyone else the narcissistic evil person behind this thinks they can damage. I absolutely consider this travesty to be child abuse, a form of child abuse allowed by the state because of the mad political correctness running through our society.
@Cary:
…and an apple tree takes 3-7 years before it will produce that first apple and success is never guaranteed. I know, I planted a small orchard in 2007 and some of the trees are just now starting to bear some fruit. Fruit trees don’t grow big and healthy by themselves – it’s a constant battle with nature. An entire hoard of animals and micro-organisms that I never heard of before want to kill the trees and eat the fruit. I actually had a fox out there eating the last few apples a couple weeks ago. Got a nice photo of him on my game-cam.
During the growing season the trees must be sprayed every single week or various fungi and insects will ruin the fruit. The small fruit must be thinned by hand else it will overload the branches and break them down when the fruit becomes large. During the winter the trees have to be pruned and the trimmings hauled away for sanitary reasons. In the spring they must be fertilized and sprayed with miscible oil before the leaves come out.
If I were “in charge”, all school kids would spend a couple weeks working on a farm, ranch, fishing boat or orchard to learn exactly where their food comes from.
P.S. Yes, Mz. Beez, it’s a warzone out there, and I could never win the battle without your bees.
John Cooper,
thank you for freely giving your knowledge, very interesting to read,
and save too,
I also like the advice of getting kids to learn the farm operations,
there are so many,
I was just theses last days helping my friend at her farm, and so surprise of all the things she is doing, to prepare for the winter, I enjoyed the trip on her gator to get about 3 loads of the wood they have cut before, and bring that back in a huge cupboard attach to her house,
she drove that gator fast on the corner looking if I was scare, but I enjoyed the thrill of speed my hand tight on the bar, my head toward our load to see that we stalk it very well because nothing moved,
and to see and help on the many pumpkins cutting peeling separate the seeds for roasting later cooking the pumkins, for freezing to make future delicious pies like the one she had on THANK’S GIVING DAY,
work on taking indoor the big zuccinis for the golden famous jam she makes 50 jars at the time,
and and and, I could not believe her day of work non stop, her last child, a son of 18, just left for the
NORTHWEST TERRITORY to work, so she and her husband are alone to work they have 100 or more cow, a big land for hay to do,
they help me to move this month, and I love them, I just hired myself to help anytime they need,
bye
I’m not saying that I believe this is what happened, but there are thousands of babies born evey year that have all the male and female parts. The doctor asks the parents if they want a boy or girl and make it so. This is usually where the transvestites come from, but is it possible that sometimes one side overpowers the other side?
One reason I ain’t a church goer is because I would have to condemn gays even though they didn’t CHOOSE to be gay; they were BORN that way. We need to learn to accept people the way they are, not the way we want them to be.
@Wm T Sherman:
Not necessarily. I have a TG friend who says she knew at about that age. She was completely unable to act on it at that time though. I don’t know whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.
Mannie
hi,
A 2 year old baby, doesn’t know if he is a girl or a boy,
he play with what ever toys is given to him,
only the parents are making that baby grow up to what they intend for him,,
as long as he is under the sole care of his parents’s guidance,
that is when the school begin to help or deny the judgment already questioning the who am I,
what am I, who are them?
bye
@ilovebeeswarzone:
There’s a world of difference between a 2 year old and a 7 year old. From what I understand, talking with my friend, she started feeling uneasy about her gender about that time. Her parents did nothing to encourage her, and do not approve. Her identity took a long time to evolve and included a marriage and a stint in the Navy.
Should a seven year old boy be encouraged to think he’s a girl? I don’t think so. Let things mature, I think. Should a seven year old be allowed, let alone encouraged to join the Girl Scouts? I don’t think so. Let things mature.
I’m just glad I don’t have to walk that path. My friend’s walk has been Hell.
Mannie,
well said, AND how sad for your friend to have to torture herself
into that, those conflicting mind bugging questions,
while from a 7 year old growing to the time to mature facing her conflicting thoughts,
desire, hopes, to find out the answers of how to find happiness
you might think, that when aware of a certain unusual difference between her and other of the same gender, if she knew where to seek help, it would have lessen the torture within,
bye
Being gay or TG doesn’t seem to respond to what we think of as therapy. You may be able to hide it. You may be able to suppress it. But it doesn’t go away, according to those I know. They say there is no more cure for this than there is a cure for being tall or short. I don’t know. I’m just glad I don’t have to walk that road. I’m screwed up enough as it is. 😉
Mannie,
hi,
you’re too smart to be screw up,
but that was funny
we are conceived from both genders, so we get both of the good and bad from them on a lesser potion,
and also we get it uneven, more or less of each, I THINK i’m right there,
now I wonder if somewhere in the process there is a mix up,
a plus or a minus of the y or x, on some,
bye
So female = pu$$y?
Typical religious values: concepts before people!