26 Responses to “Sunday Funnies”

  1. 5

    BRob

    It’s funny . . . the first cartoon shows Obama surrendering “at Waterloo.” And I recall wingnut Jim DeMint saying the GOPers were going to make health care Obama’s Waterloo . . . yeah, some good faith negotiation that is.

    Anyways, health care reform passes the House and passes the Senate. Now we are looking at whether to have the House adopt the Senate bill, then alter it through reconciliation. So the Dems are, considering how you measure it, 3/4 of the way there to getting coverage for the 30 million people, eliminating pre-existing conditions, and reducing future Medicare expenses. All good things, if you ask me. But GOPers want nothing of this. If they have their way, we will enter 2012 with the same broke-a$$ed system we had when the GOPers (who did nothing but exacerbate the problems) got shown the door.

    So is Obama surrendering to the minority GOPers? Hardly. Yet wasn’t the GOPer mantra at the summit that the majority Dems should surrender to the minority GOPers and “start over” on the already year long process of health care reform? Er, yeah . . . cartoonists forgot that little part. It’s like the GOPers are the last Japanese soldier in a cave on some Pacific Island, waiting for the U.S. Marines to surrender to him. But that’s OK. I know this echo chamber treats facts like a skunk at a picnic. Don’t want reality to tread upon your “we are winning” talking points. Carry on!

  2. 7

    Donald Bly

    Obamacare is really about creating jobs… just think of all the new prisons we will need to build to house liberty loving citizens who will refuse to comply with the unconstitutional mandate to purchase health care insurance. We’ll need construction workers, prison guards, social workers, parole officers, and an army of insurance police. And the best thing… those liberty lovers will lose their right to vote.

    It’s jobs jobs jobs….

  3. 8

    BRob

    Tom, I guess you did not catch the latest on fourth quarter GDP, huh. Up 5.9%, seasonally adjusted. If i recall correctly, the earlier estimate was 5.4%. So, yes, the recovery is well under way. I know you cons were hoping that unemployment would stay above 10% and we have negative GDP, but it does not appear that is going to happen. Good for America, but bad for you cons.

    I know that California is in particularly bad shape fiscally speaking. And since the big projects probably require some state money, I would imagine that things are going slower there. But when we hit spring here, I suspect there will be lots of building and lots of rebar.

    Just heard that Ford is calling back 800 people to the newly retooled engine plant here. GM also just announced the new cars for a big assembly plant east of here. Good for America, but probably bad for cons, too.

  4. 11

    pat

    This is my favorite Sunday diversion (comics).

    And, on the work front, today it’s news of the last 15 years. Ah, the memories, spanning Clinton’s 2nd term to 2005. I had forgotten Kerry’s Iraq plan, 2004: “I’ll go to the UN.” The more things change, etc.
    Then there was the Contract with America and its later fizzle. Conclusion: pollsters had overhyped the popularity of the CwA beforehand, then in practice the support wasn’t there. Much like the situation of 2008 where the Zero was overhyped, which is probably why he has fallen so fast.
    Then, the reason that national healthcare must never be implemented. Here on Apr. 4, 2003, is a study from Canada:

    OTTOWA—The maple leaf on the flag and the national anthem don’t come close. Hocky can’t compare. According to new polling by Environics Research, the most widely embraced symbol of the Canadian identity is Medicare.
    “It’s almost unanimous that the health system is important to our national identity,” said Jane Armstrong, senior vice president of Environics Research of Toronto.

    Medicare got 78% as the national cultural symbol out of a list including their Charter of Rights and Freedoms, national parks, multiculturalism, Canadian music and art, the Mounted Police, and the Canadian Broadcasting Co.

    (Of course, it could just mean that Canada is short on catchy symbols… but I think it means that Medicare is so much a part of the culture that they can’t think of Canada without it.)

  5. 12

    Wordsmith

    editor

    @BRob #5:

    So is Obama surrendering to the minority GOPers? Hardly. Yet wasn’t the GOPer mantra at the summit that the majority Dems should surrender to the minority GOPers and “start over” on the already year long process of health care reform? Er, yeah . . . cartoonists forgot that little part.

    Really? It’s only minority GOPers opposed to Obamacare? Not majority Americans?

    Rasmussen:

    Voters still strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats and think Congress should focus instead on smaller bills that address problems individually rather than a comprehensive plan.

    ~~~

    Democrats continue to strongly support the health care plan much while it is opposed by Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party. Seventy percent (70%) of the Political Class strongly favor the plan, while 57% of Mainstream voters strongly oppose it.

    Gallup:

    Americans are skeptical that lawmakers will agree on a new healthcare bill at Thursday’s bipartisan healthcare summit in Washington, D.C. If an agreement is not reached, Americans by a 49% to 42% margin oppose rather than favor Congress passing a healthcare bill similar to the one proposed by President Obama and Democrats in the House and Senate. By a larger 52% to 39% margin, Americans also oppose the Democrats in the Senate using a reconciliation procedure to avoid a possible Republican filibuster and pass a bill by a simple majority vote.

    Washington Times:

    Likewise, the Republican “start from scratch” proposal resonates with the electorate. A January CNN poll found 48 percent of Americans wanting Congress to start work on a new reform bill, and a further 21 percent wanted no bill at all. Only 30 percent thought the current effort was on the right track.

    More links here.

    Maybe if you weren’t always so frothing at the mouth, you could have scrolled down to the 2nd cartoon:

    But from so many of your comments, I don’t get the sense that you really take the time to read the posts…even when they’re just Sunday Funnies.

  6. 13

    BRob

    Wordsmith, you are falling prey to three fallacies:

    1) That the Congress is supposed to do what polls tell them to do. This is a crock. Members are elected to represent their constituents and use their judgment in voting on matters. I could bet you that more than 50% of people polled might

    2) That “opposing” the reform bill means they don’t want to see anything pass. There are people in that number who oppose the bill because of abortion, or it does not go far enough. If the population was questioned and more than 50% said “do nothing; we like it the way it is”, then you would have an argument.

    3) That the polls are representative of what “the American people” actually think. See number two above. In addition, the idea that Congress should vote based on what 1800 people think? What was the sample size? It doesn’t matter. Because the idea that a poll of 3600 people should count more than the votes of 150 million . . . kinda dumb, dontcha think?

    * * * * *

    In conclusion, the GOPer approach to this has not been impressive at all. And the poll based argument are limp, too.

  7. 14

    Wordsmith

    editor

    No BRob,

    I take all polls with a grain of salt. But when you say GOPers are in the minority when it comes to opposition to Obama’s healthcare plan….proof please?

    On point #2, who on either side of aisle isn’t saying healthcare reform isn’t desired? Is it a priority on the minds of American voters, though?

    There are people in that number who oppose the bill because of abortion, or it does not go far enough. If the population was questioned and more than 50% said “do nothing; we like it the way it is”, then you would have an argument.

    Which supports the idea that AMERICANS- not just GOPers- don’t want to see Obamacare passed.

  8. @tfhr: You sure that story is a parody? Especially the part about Moses (Obama) parting the waters and sparing Hawaii the ravages of the Tsunami.

    There are probably some Obamaton idiots who believe that Obama did cause Hawaii to be spared.

    BLOB?

    P.S. @ButtRub: suggests poll based arguments are weak? How about the polls in Massachusetts in January?

  9. 19

    BRob

    Wordsmith —

    If the new conservative talking point is that members of Congress should vote depending on what polls show, be sure to run with that as an election campaign slogan. But, frankly, that is not leadership; that is “followership.”

    Representatives are elected to use their judgment, no regurgitate a poll result. After all, people still believe in the right to have an abortion, but the GOP hasn’t given up on their anti-abortion stance, have they? No. So if an abortion expansion bill were to come up for a vote, no one would expect anti-abortion reps to vote for it just because more than 50% of people supported it. Or vice versa. Same thing here. Polls are irrelevant and no one should make a decision based on them. If you want to oppose Obamacare, then do it. But save the argument that a Gallup poll is the reason it should fail.

  10. 20

    Wordsmith

    editor

    @BRob:

    Wordsmith –

    If the new conservative talking point is that members of Congress should vote depending on what polls show, be sure to run with that as an election campaign slogan. But, frankly, that is not leadership; that is “followership.”

    The “new conservative talking point” is the “old liberal talking point” when y’all were criticizing Bush for low approval numbers, high disapproval ratings. He disregarded opinion polls and did what was right, even if it wasn’t popular. That’s leadership.

    Obama’s showing leadership too by going with his ideological gut instincts and not by the fickle nature of the latest gallup polls, affected a lot by good and bad press.

    But not all leaders are right. Obama’s leadership is going to march us right off a cliff, even as we kick and scream in opposition.

    And if, in fact, most Americans aren’t happy with Obama’s leadership, and polls are consistently and accurately reflecting the dissatisfaction, then Obama’s going to have to face the consequences of his obstinacy this November.

    Polls can be useful to measure the mood of the people who cast ballots; they are a useful tool for politicians, but no, leaders need to lead and not stick their wet finger in the air every second before making big decisions.

    But save the argument that a Gallup poll is the reason it should fail.

    And this illustrates above all else how you listen and hear only what you wish to hear, to move the goal posts where you want them to be in hopes of punting one through.

    What I pointed out by showing poll numbers is your original argument about the first cartoon and that it was only MINORITY GOPers who opposed Obamacare. I say, it’s the American public and not just GOPers who oppose it. That is my point in giving you polling data.

    You then come back with quibbling over reasons why some may oppose, whether it be because it’s too socialistic or whether it ain’t socialistic enough…bottomline being they oppose.

    So I provide some “proof” as to those opposing Obamacare being majority AMERICANS and not just majority Republicans.

    Your proof that it’s only “You Cons” who oppose Obama-style healthcare as priority #1 is….where?

    That’s the original argument you keep obfuscating over; or simply refusing to wrap your mind around.

  11. 21

    BRob

    Word — Gotta go. My focus on the the minority GOPers is simple: the votes on the Hill are all the matter. Not any polls by Gallup or any special election results, no matter how interesting. All that matters are the votes on the Hill because that is our system, like it or not.

    Obama “marching us off a cliff”? That’s kinda dramatic and hysterical. Last I checked, the Republic has not crumbled. Hell, we got through eight years of Bush for God’s sake! So we’ll be fine and Obama will enjoy a hopefully low drama second term . . . think “Clinton without the ho problems.”

  12. 22

    BRob

    The real secret con fear? Obamacare will work the way the CBO says it would — covering more people and lowering the costs. And cons are just not willing to take that chance, so it must be killed.

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