Nanny NATO Rules of Engagement hinder Marjah progress

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The new PC rules of waging war is taking it’s toll on the US military/NATO/Afghan troops attempts to re’seize control of the Taliban poppy stronghold of Marjah.

Even the Air Force Times today focused on the frustration of soldiers on the ground, hampered by NATO style ROEs that effectively have the forces fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.

Some American and Afghan troops say they’re fighting the latest offensive in Afghanistan with a handicap — strict rules that routinely force them to hold their fire.

Although details of the new guidelines are classified to keep insurgents from reading them, U.S. troops say the Taliban are keenly aware of the restrictions.

“I understand the reason behind it, but it’s so hard to fight a war like this,” said Marine Lance Cpl. Travis Anderson, 20, of Altoona, Iowa. “They’re using our rules of engagement against us,” he said, adding that his platoon had repeatedly seen men drop their guns into ditches and walk away to blend in with civilians.


If a man emerges from a Taliban hideout after shooting erupts, U.S. troops say they cannot fire at him if he is not seen carrying a weapon — or if they did not personally watch him drop one.

What this means, some contend, is that a militant can fire at them, then set aside his weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location. It was unclear how often this has happened. In another example, Marines pinned down by a barrage of insurgent bullets say they can’t count on quick air support because it takes time to positively identify shooters.

“This is difficult,” Lance Cpl. Michael Andrejczuk, 20, of Knoxville, Tenn., said Monday. “We are trained like when we see something, we obliterate it. But here, we have to see them and when we do, they don’t have guns.

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Under the current rules of engagement, troops retain the right to use lethal force in self defense, said U.S. Col. Wayne Shanks, a spokesman for the international force.

The rules seek to put the troops in the “right frame of mind to exercise that right,” Shanks said. They require troops to ask a few fundamental questions:

* Even if someone has shot in my general direction, am I still in danger?

* Will I make more enemies than I’ll kill by destroying property, or harming innocent civilians?

* What are my other options to resolve this without escalating the violence?

In another story from AP today, the Marines’ request to fire high-explosive rounds was denied by ground commanders, fearing civilian casualties. They fired non-lethal moke rounds instead to disperse the Taliban fighters.

Even the air support has it’s drawbacks. Again from the AF Times, article, Cobra gunships fired off Hellfire missiles…. 90 minutes after the ground troops, under intense fire, requested the support. Why? They had to wait until they could positively ID the militants, firing on the troops.

Another AP update today reports that by Monday, midday, six gunfights were being waged simultaneously in Marjah. The chopper gunships couldn’t cover them all.

Tho allied and Afghan force commanders say resistence is “light” and becoming more “disorganized”, the Taliban holdouts are far from discouraged.

Taliban fighters appeared to be slipping under cover of darkness into compounds already deemed free of weapons and explosives, then opening fire on the Marines from behind U.S. lines.

~~~

Interior Minister Hanif Atmar said many insurgent fighters had already fled Marjah, possibly heading for Pakistan.

In Marjah, however, there was little sign the Taliban were broken. Instead, small, mobile teams of insurgents repeatedly attacked U.S. and Afghan troops with rocket, rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire. Insurgents moved close enough to the main road to fire repeatedly at columns of mine-clearing vehicles.

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Nonetheless, the harassment tactics and the huge number of roadside bombs, mines and booby traps planted throughout Marjah have succeeded in slowing the movement of allied forces through the town. After daylong skirmishes, some Marine units had barely advanced at all by sundown.

Other Taliban fighters have been hiding in haystacks located in the Marjah poppy fields, opening up fire on the troops as they passed, and shooting at Osprey aircraft with RPGs.

Residents, terrified of Taliban repercussions, were afraid to be seen with the NATO/Afghan or US troops.

As Marines searched his compound, one man, Wali Mohammad, warned an AP reporter, “Don’t take pictures or the Taliban will come back to kill me.”

Mohammad said he strongly suspected insurgents would return to the area as soon as the Marines moved on. He said Taliban fighters had targeted U.S. and Afghan troops, firing from his neighbors’ houses.

“When they come, we try to tell them not to use our house, but they have guns so they do what they want,” the poppy farmer said.

Despite the obvious – that being this is all an absolutely absurd way to wage war – NATO and Afghan leaders cling to their ROEs.

NATO and Afghan military officials say killing militants is not the goal of a 3-day-old attack to take control of this Taliban stronghold in southern Afghanistan. More important is to win public support.

They acknowledge that the rules entail risk to its troops, but maintain that civilian casualties or destruction of property can alienate the population and lead to more insurgent recruits, more homemade bombs and a prolonged conflict.

~~~

“The problem is isolating where the enemy is,” said Capt. Joshua Winfrey, a Marine company commander from Stillwater, Okla. “We are not going to drop ordnance out in the open.”

~~~

Politically, it’s not the best time to campaign for relaxing the rules in Afghanistan. On Sunday, two U.S. rockets struck a house and killed 12 Afghan civilians during the offensive in Marjah, NATO said. On Monday, a NATO airstrike accidentally killed five civilians and wounded two in neighboring Kandahar province.

It was public outrage in Afghanistan over civilian deaths that prompted the top NATO commander, U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, last year to tighten the rules, including the use of airstrikes and other weaponry if civilians are at risk.

Afghan civilian deaths soared to 2,412 civilians last year — the highest number in any year of the 8-year-old war, according to a U.N. report. But the deaths attributed to allied troops dropped nearly 30 percent as a result of McChrystal’s new rules, according to the report.

But of course there’s a drop in civilian deaths…. the bad guys have been firmly entrenching themselves in strategic locations and fighting forces have been powerless to engage with Barbie doll fighting rules. Thus the very reason for Operation Mushtarak.

So how’s those nanny fighting rules working out for civilian casualties, anyway? In addition to a wayward missile striking a home, killing 12, not so good on the ground either.

On Monday, Marines in the northern part of Marjah followed the rules of engagement, but a civilian still ended up dead.

As troops fought teams of insurgent snipers throughout the day in heavy gunfights, a young Afghan man ran toward the Marines. More than once, the troops warned him to stop, but he kept running.

Following the rules, the Marines uttered a verbal warning, and fired a flare and a warning shot overhead. Still the man didn’t stop. Marines shot him dead.

Afterward, Marine officers said the victim appeared to be a mentally ill man who had panicked during the gun battle.

“Sadly, everything was done right,” said Lt. Col. Brian Christmas, commander of 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines. “The family understood.”

All which begs the question, is prolonging the battle by waging pretty rules of combat with those who have no such honor the right decision?

One can’t argue with proven Iraq surge “clear and hold” strategy. But the Pentagon paid a high price in lives to learn what should have been obvious lessons. Take, for example, Fallujah. Iraq’s first Battle of Fallujah – Operation Valiant Resolve in 2004. – should remind military leaders everywhere of the folly of such nanny rules of war. Again the US restricted their air support against well organized hit and run urban warfare in order to tiptoe around collateral damage. Despite the extraordinary skill of the US forces, their advance was restricted to the outlying areas of the city. Within days, the jihad movements were dancing in the streets, proclaiming victory over US Marines… 39 of which have paid the ultimate price with their lives over the three week approximate battle.

When the rematch came months later – Operation al-Fajr – a less restrictive approach was utilized. The total forces numbered about the same as Marjah’s offensive… between 10,000 and 15,000 coalition forces. Sources cited 24 sorties flown on the first day alone, and heavier artillery was in use.

Fallujah, the sequel, had a higher US casualty count, with 51 killed in the nine days of major battle. The city was taken, but not without considerable criticism. Tho most of the civilians had already fled the city after the first battle, this time the “collateral damage” criticism was infrastructure. Mosques, used as ammunition depots by the jihad movements, were destroyed… and rightfully so.

It’s always something, yes?

We’ve already done the strategic unthinkable in Marjah… as we did with OIF. We told them the battle was being planned, and where. The residents have had ample time to relocate out of harm’s way in Marjah. Now it’s time to untie the hand, and remove the kid gloves of the fighters. The US military has never gone out of it’s way to kill civilians… that’s the enemy’s strategy. It’s time to stop treating them as if they do.

War is war. There will always be civilian casualties along side our troops’, despite laser precision missile accuracy. Nor will buildings remain standing. But if this is to be the criteria by which warfare is to be waged, it’s a losing proposition to become involved in combat at all.

Even more laughable is the unmatchable US military, adopting NATO rules. NATO has no notable successes chalked up to their resume. Emulating their ROEs is a prescription for mediocrity and failure. If the US insists upon waging battle, NATO style, you’d might as well hand the Taliban the keys to Marjah and bring our guys home.

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i am shaking of horreur what can we do to stop thoses who are forcing thoses orders onto the soldiers they should be demoted and charge of criminal behavior at once when you remember the blood spill already since that war began.

“What experience and history teach is this — that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles.” George Hegel
Same issue in Vietnam with tragic results then. Let’s hope they get this one straightened out quickly.

Bullmoosegal i can almost see that they want to prolong that war,bye

Wage ‘Total War’ or lose the war! That is the lesson of history….

Ok, as evidenced with History, this is how Democrats wage war. Its failed in the past and they will continue to enforce these BS ROE’s till it finally works, which will be never.

I totally disagree with the Air Force Times on their statement about our troops fighting with one hand tied because of these “rules of engagement”. Our troops are fighting with both hands tied and both feet tied too. When you let politicians run the war you lose! If the politicians want to lay down the rules, then the politicians should be issued a rifle and put them on the line. God could we get rid of a bunch of cowards.

Some of the smoke was to get the Taliban to respond. It was a first choice to use smoke, not an alternative.

There are signs that NATO doesn’t want to kill them all. NATO has tried to negotiate with them and bribe them. Even when they are captured, they will probably be let go. The key things are to take away their weapons, their means of funding the resistance and a place to set up shop. The Afghans are happy with these rules (they are the ones that wanted the rules) and will have to live with them if things fall apart when the troops start to leave next year (maybe).

GREGORY i think it’s KARZEI pesident that made those demands on MCCRYSTAL his first speech at BBC was ..my first priority is with the afghans civiliens and i think the first priority is his soldiers who where and still get kill by the roadside bombs and now he is giving them a hard time to fight the war so or he has a problem and the soldiers suffer because of his problem or he is influence to prolong further the war maybe by KARZEI or top COMMANDER higher bye

So, let me get this right:

1. George Bush, Jr. transfers peacekeeping and warfighting duties to NATO forces for the Afghan Theater in 2006 (or was it 2007?)

2. NATO forces take what hard work US Forces have done in rebuilding and tossed it to the can and emplaced new rules that have caused this degeneration.

3. Obama re-engages US Forces to this Theater, even though we aren’t technicaly required to do so…

4. NATO insists that our forces nerf ourselves to the point we can barely move an inch forward without dealing with media and political red tape while the enemy freely does what is needed to lock in a possible victory even if it means killing civilians and blaming it on NATO/US forces?

they [KARZEI and associates] want the war fight like a street fight having ours troops to participate instead of freeing their people of their tormenters and along with putting ours troops in danger to drag the war longer than it should they should know that our own are fighting a real war they are professional carreer soldiers and they are not street fighters and they are not expandebles either being the ELITES of the free countrys we could not live without their courage to protect us in ours own countrys so rely on their expertises to win that war .