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Old Trooper
14 years ago
If this piece of crap passes the Joke is on All of Us.
Pardon me for not laughing.
The Intrade conventional wisdom has it at about a 40% chance of passing. Obama has gotten 95% of legislation he backed passed the first six months in office, blowing previous records out of the water…
AdrianS
14 years ago
Again we get misinformation from the misinformed misinformer called Obama. Obama claimed that the AARP supports his plan. Not.
AARP: “No Mr. President, We Don’t Support Your Healthcare Plan.”
“Time and again, President Obama has portrayed himself as the voice of reason, combating “myths” and “misinformation.” But the president made an embarrassing series of gaffes during a town hall meeting on healthcare Tuesday. His most egregious error: claiming that AARP endorsed his plan, forcing the organization for older Americans to issue a correction stating that it has not done so.” – newsmax.com.
Excerpt: “Obama’s most egregious error: claiming that the AARP has endorsed his plan, forcing the organization that represents older Americans to issue a correcting statement that it has done no such things.” — from the article above.
Note: The AARP has been losing members through cancellations so much so that they felt it necessary, perhaps imperative, to “distance” themselves from and SLAM Obama and his losing “Healthcare” plan. They have been very polite about it. The AARP should just say, “Obama, the socialist master liar is again, and as usual, lying.”
Obama is abundantly stupid if he thinks people are not reviewing and criticizing what he is saying. And, as a consequence, Obama’s approval ratings are falling faster … from 66% earlier this year to new lows of approximately 43%, and falling.
What we need now in America is a massive and immediate recall of as many left-leaning, Obama-supporting Congressmen and Congresswomen as possible. Start now to be sure that this Obama health care plan — tantamount to a socialist take-over of our health, life, liberty, and freedom — does NOT succeed.
@Fit fit: Sure, you’ll get a bill with the title “health care reform.” But you won’t get the left wing Christmas tree oops… make that Kwanza Bush that is anything close to the current Dem bills.
Even then, it will suck!
bill-tb
14 years ago
Democrats obviously think the average American cannot read and comprehend any better than the average congressional clunker. After all, they made sure of that with your government education.
Real American Patriot
14 years ago
Mike,
I find this line you wrote very interesting.
“Will the plan destroy private health insurance? – Yes.”
If that is true, is it because government run healthcare could actually be better than private health care? I was under the impression the righties liked a competitive market place. I was also under the impression that the righties also think the government can’t run anything well. Apparently that’s just not true is it?
When has government EVER done anything better than the private sector?
Didn’t you hear Obama admit that Fed Ex does a better job than the Postal Service?
Weren’t you listening to your master when he made that faux pas?
KJC
14 years ago
@Real American Patriot: The government never and I mean never competes fairly.But to simplify matters for you put it in terms of playing Monopoly against somebody who can draw money from the bank whenever they want to and change the rules of the game when it suits them.What do you suppose your chances of winning would be then?
KJC
14 years ago
@Mike’s America: Well yes that is true,what I meant was the House version is dead.
OLDPUPPYMAX
14 years ago
The AARP most certainly DOES support Hussein’s healthcare takeover. It just doesn’t want that support KNOWN BY ITS MEMBERS!!! AARP has lost a BOATLOAD of members over the past few weeks. Mainly because the left runs AARP and supports Hussein’s desire to trample on our rights. So blabbing about the blind support he has received from an organization whose first duty is supposed to be the welfare of the elderly–the group Hussein intends to kill of as quickly as possible–couldn’t be a smart idea! Oh well. Hyper-arrogance does not recognize contrary opinions.
Mike Smith
14 years ago
White House Robert Gibbs today at the press briefing said that the President “misspoke”. He said this is a quote from Mr. Gibbs, “What the president said —AARP has said they are certainly supportive for years of health care reform that is comprehensive”, Gibbs said. He put the spin on it that the President was actually correct……..you can’t fight politics.
You would think that the President “might” consult other people with high degrees in economics about his health plan like John Lewis of DUKE UNIVERSITY and others
Mike stated:
“When has government EVER done anything better than the private sector?”
Well let’s try HEALTHCARE itself Mike
Why is that Medicare administration costs per beneficiary are at least 21% LOWER than that of private insurance companies? Maybe it’s because they actually do it better than private insurance companies!
It appears you are the one that is delusional, but what else should I expect from a right winger??
KJC
14 years ago
@Real American Patriot: Medicare has a 74 trillion dollar unfunded liability,so can we quit using that program as the shining beacon of government efficiency?
AdrianS
14 years ago
It’s high time to insist that Congressmen, all of them, and President Obama, be included in the ObamaCare plan of “reform” — they must accept and embrace their own medicine. That would be real reform. It’s time to demand that laws to this effect be passed now.
There is no reason to expect that the people of the U.S. accept healthcare “reform” without the participation of everyone, all citizens, in the plan. We do NOT have a king, or viceroys, running this country. If Congress refuses to accept the same plan for themselves then drop it. Need we remind them that we have no royalty in America.
Also, watch out for the quarter-back sneak. That’s what Congress did with the TARP legislation. They went back at it again after FAILING to convince the public the first time. This is a very old legal trick, if you don’t win at first, wait ’til your opponent forgets, loses interest, or enters a period of weakness.
If you’d like to see the Obama game plan yourself, written by Saul Alinsky (socialist-communist who dedicated it to Lucifer, Satin the very devil), see it here: http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm.
Beware. You have been advised of what is going on in the Obama administration. Obama is an incessant liar and is trying to divide the public. The only good news is that Obama is losing. He’s been caught in his lies and his “reform” is failing miserably; especially among almost all people over 40 years of age and senior citizens — many former members of AARP.
Hey, old boy: The real estate market is in bad shape but I got a bridge up for sale up in Brooklyn, NY. I’ll meet you up there, you get free hotel and meals, limo transportation to the site, and a 10% discount to boot!
You can fly up on your delusion.
The medical services may be in bad shape also, but the government sure as hedoubleL ain’t never done ANYTHING better than the private sector, except squander taxpayers hard earned money like it ain’t gone be no tomorrow.
@Real American Patriot: How many times do I have to say this: If Medicare was soooo good, then why do so many Seniors feel it necessary to buy supplemental insurance.
Again, NO government program is as efficient, or responsive to the needs of the end user as a comparable private sector program.
Tom N
14 years ago
SARAH PALIN WAS RIGHT – THERE IS A DEATH BOARD TO REVIEW WHO DIES AND WHO GETS TREATMENT. GUESS WHAT TREATMENT CONSERVATIVES WILL GET ?
Steve Rowland
14 years ago
Tom N
One would think that when the Democrats are in power they would send the conservatives to the ovens, and when Republicans are in power they send the pinko liberals to the ovens. It becomes a game just like all other politics, but in this instance a ‘death’ game. Problem is that Democrats know how to play dirty and the Republicans ain’t got no backbone, so by the time it’s due for a power change-over, there ain’t no Republicans left worth a damn.
Real American Patriot
14 years ago
That’s right Mike when faced with facts deny them as usual and divert to something that seems to be connected… I should know better than to expect anything else from a right winger!
The FACT is the government administrates healthcare 21% cheaper than private insurance companies do.
Why some seniors buy supplemental insurance is simply because they want more coverage than is offered by Medicare.. DUH…
Does that have anything to do with the cost of administration costs per beneficiary?? maybe a little but not by 21% that’s for damn sure.
Steve Rowland
14 years ago
Real American Patriot:
What facts? One thing Liberals ARE good at is explaining everything away, or into their own warped perspective. The other things is they love to take from those who produce and give it to those who do not.
The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else.
Base inferences were made in the link you provided, were Book and Zycher given the opportunity to respond for themselves?
You talk about Mike diverting to something else. Well, what do you call that “Government administers health care 21% ‘cheaper’ than the private sector.” And that’s ‘administration’…just like “Lies and damn lies”, we get ‘Statistics and damn statistics” up the kazoo, but the fact remains, and I am still confused, as to which of these existing socialist health care systems are in any way efficient for the recipient? What do the recipients think? I’ve yet to locate the lovefest.
You can print your own rosy picture, but let’s see some accolades by those getting government health care. (And I don’t mean from Democrats recruited to draw swastikas or Obamacolytes planted in Town Hall meetings.)
J.L.
14 years ago
Mr. Patriot- Healthcare in the U.S. is covered by three systems; Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance. Two of these are bankrupt, and will be unable to make payments beyond 2032 ( insert correct date here- I`m not sure). The third is solvent and can make all of its payments for the foreseeable future. Obama`s plan is to take the one system meeting its obligations and fold it into the two that are bankrupt. (Bryan Preston)
Disturber
14 years ago
I have been following this debate very closely. I have never seen any legitimate study showing that Medicare is 21% more efficient than private insurance. In fact that is impossible. Every person over 65 must enroll in Medicare, although some have insurance based supplements such as Medicare Advantage which I have and like very much (with Kaiser). If there is absolutely no overlap, how could one be more efficient than the other? Also, estimates are that Medicare enjoys fraud losses that are as high as 20% in some studies but never lower than 17%. The bottom line here is that there are no government run programs that aren’t larded with bureaucratic heavy handedness.
One of the absolutely worst portions of Obamacare is the use of criminal like enforcement mechanisms. If a patient is discharged from a hospital and then is readmitted for the same ailment, both the doctor and the hospital are fined regardless of the medical circumstances. If a doctor resorts to an unapproved treatment, he can be fined and jailed even if it was in his best medical judgement that the regimen was appropriate and even if it worked a cure! What kind of nonsense is this?
There are issues in the American health care system, but rectifying those issues does not mean that the entire edifice has to be destroyed. I urge everyone to read the bill, especially in pages 400 to 500. I think that even Real American Patriot, a idealogue if there ever was one, would be repulsed by what is there. How would you like your heart attack to be treated by a primary care physician? Read the bill my friend, it is there in black and white. By the way, I too am an Ivy educated attorney who has been doing such for nearly 40 years. I know how to read statutes.
Real American Patriot
14 years ago
Disturber & Steve Rowland
Read this and weep you are so far off base it’s unreal. For you two to dispute these facts is totally laughable.
Disturber you complain about government programs being “larded with bureaucratic heavy handedness.” What do you call private insurance companies that are larded with fat cat CEO’s taking home MILLIONS? then private insurance companies denying coverage until forced to pay up in court cases?
Who is paying off the republican senators with MILLIONS of dollars in campaign contributions to get them to vote in favor of not having a public option?? That would be the medical insurance companies. If you care to dispute it just look it up. You will find it and there is no denying it.
@Real American Patriot: Are you suggesting that the pro-Obama health care takeover is just some spontaneous gathering of citizens?
Who is paying for all those professionally printed signs?
Who is paying to bus in the union thugs?
Who is paying for all those pro-Obama ads on TV?
Unions and other commie rat groups are spening 10’s of millions and you are pointing the finger at the GOP?
What crazy oxygen starved planet do you live on?
Get REAL!
P.S. Thanks for at least admitting that Medicare is so inadequate that millions of Americans have been forced to dip into their savings to make up the difference.
AdrianS
14 years ago
Ah, now it seems millions of people are realizing that the short-comings of Medicare and private insurance are NOT rectified by ObamaCare at all. Instead we see now that ObamaCare is a ruthless power grab of unmeasurable proportions. It would incorporate what seems to be BEAUROCRATIC medicinal directives that have little to do with the proper administration of medicine to a patient.
But alas, the truth is out. ObamaCare would be a whole rewrite of medicine for patients complete with tax increases, fines, penalties, limitations, end-of-life counseling, and the much trumpeted waits of several weeks or months for medical care.
Just say NO! Reject ObamaCare just as we finally rejected HillaryCare.
PS: I wonder if that’s why Obama sent Hillary to Africa for some wholesome obscurity.
CRAP: Who is paying off the republican senators with MILLIONS of dollars in campaign contributions to get them to vote in favor of not having a public option?? That would be the medical insurance companies.
While we’re at it, how about that tort reform for malpractice in those O’healthcare bills? Oh… that’s right. There IS no tort reform because the Dem’s trial lawyer special interests won’t let them go anywhere near *real* cost reform…
I just love how the leftist amoeba think loves to point fingers at the associations of the opposition, and totally ignore the shit in their own litter box.
Fit: Obama has gotten 95% of legislation he backed passed the first six months in office, blowing previous records out of the water…
Well now, Fit, I might point out that the “Iceman”, Richard Kuklinski, is touted as one of America’s record breaking serial killers in the past century with over 40 murders. Is the fact you set a record important? Or doesn’t what you did as for record setting play into it?
Just how is this such a wonderful accomplishment by Obama, in light of the lack of a second party being able to thwart the majority’s bills? What he’s done (and certainly not by himself….)? i.e. tripled the debt in the span of months? Have we embarked on the path where toilet paper is worth more than the US dollar? And how long will it be before capitalism is history, and the US is bankrupt with debt and a T-note the world won’t touch
The last time we had any semblence of this majority in the last century was in 1965… which gave us LBJ’s policies. Prior to that, it was 1933 with FDR’s New Deal.
Yeah… moments to be proud of.
Needless to say, Obama not only has not “blown” anything out of the water, he’s followed down the path of his predecessors with big nanny government and the help of a corrupt Congress with little regard from the US Constitution.
CRAP: The FACT is the government administrates healthcare 21% cheaper than private insurance companies do.
Sorry CRAP… will not let you get away with this “crap”. You’re playing with rigged figures on the costs of Medicare as only the HHS budget, and is not an apples to apples comparison with private. Even the AMA admits this in their study, as I pointed out in my Aug 8th post.
Repeat the lie again, I’ll once again steer you and others to the truth…. Horse manure.
@MataHarley: I was just watching Cong. Kevin Brady (R-TX) conduct a Town Hall meeting in his district. He describes how 1/3 of all health care spending is devoted to regulation and bureaucracy.
And of course, with the chart he produced describing the many new bureaucratic structures Democrats have devised, that figure would only rise.
Have we heard any Dems propose cutting the cost of bureaucracy or frivolous lawsuits?
Absolutely, Mike. That red tape BS falls under admin costs… which, according to the AMA study… is still a higher plus for private over public. Altho, it’s a hard one to actually gauge since government costs strewn across many departments is hard to discern.
The biggest thing that bothers me about any of these versions is that they propose bigger government bureaucracy and involvement, and nothing cutting the costs of government regulations that lead to increased costs.
BTW, we need to grab Daniel Hannan’s appearance tonight on Hannity. Dang, I hate having to watch Hannity. What a mantra reciting dork. But I do watch when I want to catch his guests. And Hannan tonight was very good.
ditto
14 years ago
@ Disturber
“If a patient is discharged from a hospital and then is readmitted for the same ailment, both the doctor and the hospital are fined regardless of the medical circumstances. If a doctor resorts to an unapproved treatment, he can be fined and jailed even if it was in his best medical judgement that the regimen was appropriate and even if it worked a cure! What kind of nonsense is this?”
Politicians do not understand that the the practice of Medicine, (while relatively advanced in this day and age in America,) is still not an exact science. Complications may occur, the patient may not follow the doctor’s prescribed treatment wholly, patient allergies are learned of, it may take a few changes in treatment to solve the problem, and the true health of the patient may be unknown.
Steve Rowland
14 years ago
Real American Patriot:
Welllll..actually, I read the craplink you put out the first time back up on the thread on #14, and your putting it out again a few of posts above on #25 didn’t improve the smell none.
The ‘facts’ are as you behold them, and with those rosy tinted glasses, along with whatever else it is you are smoking, the ‘facts’ ain’t gone change none for ‘Real’AmericanPatriots.
The ‘Real’ fact is that this drivel you linked into to substantiate your contentions is nothing but something spewing out of the south end of a horse traveling north.
RickZ
14 years ago
# 15 KJC:
“Medicare has a 74 trillion dollar unfunded liability,so can we quit using that program as the shining beacon of government efficiency?”
And why, one would ask, is that liability unfunded?
Medicare was a dedicated tax placed upon citizens through their payroll checks. That money was held in escrow by the Government, if you will, for a ‘down the road’ medical coverage. The money that was placed into the Medicare fund was raped and pillaged a long time ago and thrown into the General Budget, to fund liberal pet projects. Now that there is economic h*ll to pay for that decision years ago, Obama wants to kill off those who funded Medicare in the first place: Those who worked their entire lives on the books and are now retired, expecting something from the Government for all the money the Government took as a matter of course for all those years.
The amazing thing to me is that this Administration gets away with one lie after another, one fact misstated after one more fact misstated. No one ever calls them on it. They are lying so brazenly now, it’s gone beyond kabuki theater and become a theater of the absurd. Socialism at Ludicrous Speed.
Jumping on the insurance company boogey man train, are you? Let’s give you another boogey man. Evil doctors. Yep, evil doctors that are no longer taking medicare/medicaid patients because of the efficiency of the government. Read it and weep:
Here’s an evil doctor that may lose her practice due to the efficiency of the government’s reimbursement rates:
Now we can add your source to once again prove the government is not capable of running anything. This site, the example you, the “proud Franken voter” boasts as some kind of proof that this boondoggle is worthwhile is like Obama using the FedEx, UPS/post office example to support his argument.
@Missy: And my father, who quit practicing after 40 years because the malpractice insurance rates caused by frivolous law suits was so high was the only OB-GYN in town that would take Medicaid patients.
It was total B.S. how hard he had to work just to get his money from Medicaid only to turn around and pay it to a lawyer.
I don’t know who the poor go to for OB-GYN services in town anymore. I suppose they are all forced to go to some far away clinic and be treated like cattle.
And Dems are directly responsible for that sad state of affairs. They created this bureaucratic and legal nightmare and they have refused EVERY effort to correct these problems as the recent votes in House committees against GOP amendments to the health bill show.
Down at our farm expectant mothers have a choice, they either travel 40 miles up into Iowa or travel 40 miles to another town in Missouri. We have a hospital 13 miles away but they quit delivering years ago.
That hospital might as well be a walk in clinic, we had an eleven year old boy break his arm while visiting, I had to drive him home, 389 miles with a broken arm, he was a tough little trooper.
Our neighbor’s daughter was in an auto accident, she had no life threatening injuries, they air lifted her to Des Moines, same with her brother after he was thrown off a 4-wheeler. They had whatever insurance Wal-Mart offers because the mother works there full time.
Our friends live off the blacktop about five miles down gravel roads, they’re on a registry to be airlifted in case of emergency, the local hospital isn’t interested in treating them, both have catastrophic illnesses, the wife is on medicare and the husband has VA. They travel to St. Joseph and Des Moines for office appointments because….ta da….no doctors in that area taking medicare/medicaid patients and of course, he has to go to the VA.
After office hours that hospital doesn’t even keep a doctor on call. My daughter had an asthma attack and they had to call a doctor in from home to come and treat her, but, she did recieve treatment and they did keep her overnight until she was stable.
Madalyn
14 years ago
It is a real shame that good doctors spend years in med school and in residency, only to be told half of what you make goes for malpractice insurance all the while paying their fair share of taxes to boot. The problem is frivolous lawsuits. Granted, there are some doctors who are in it for the money and could care less about their patients and does not give them good care. They deserve to be sued. The ones I am talking about are the ones who will pull double-duty and will go out of their way to ensure their patients are properly cared for. I have had both kinds in my old age. I have never sued a doctor, but on one ocassion had reason to. Except for that one doctor, every one I have had has been exceptional in their care of me and my family. Too many good doctors are being forced out of their profession due to ambulance chasing lawyers.
The last question should’ve been is congress and the president going yo be force into the same coverage and out of the high dollar programs they’re in now.
Richard Delaney, M.D.
14 years ago
I have been practicing Family Medicine/General Practice for fifty years now and intend to keep doing so as long as God gives me the strength. I know my fellow doctors and my patients well. This onerous legislation is designed to concentrate political power in the hands of government. It must go down. I am appalled as a physician and as an citizen of our beloved America. Thank you for your excellent site. We are many; we are angry and we will fight.
Dr. Delaney
The Intrade conventional wisdom has it at about a 40% chance of passing.
Someone mentioned INTrade, yes? That number is now down to 14.1%.
Here’s the question they are asking:
Will a federal government run health insurance plan (a public option) be approved in the US?
A federal government run health insurance plan to be approved before midnight ET 31 Dec 2009
If this piece of crap passes the Joke is on All of Us.
Pardon me for not laughing.
Is the public option dead? – yes.
@KJC: The public option is still very much alive!
The Intrade conventional wisdom has it at about a 40% chance of passing. Obama has gotten 95% of legislation he backed passed the first six months in office, blowing previous records out of the water…
Again we get misinformation from the misinformed misinformer called Obama. Obama claimed that the AARP supports his plan. Not.
AARP: “No Mr. President, We Don’t Support Your Healthcare Plan.”
“Time and again, President Obama has portrayed himself as the voice of reason, combating “myths” and “misinformation.” But the president made an embarrassing series of gaffes during a town hall meeting on healthcare Tuesday. His most egregious error: claiming that AARP endorsed his plan, forcing the organization for older Americans to issue a correction stating that it has not done so.” – newsmax.com.
Read about it here:
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_aarp_healthcare/2009/08/12/246978.html
Excerpt: “Obama’s most egregious error: claiming that the AARP has endorsed his plan, forcing the organization that represents older Americans to issue a correcting statement that it has done no such things.” — from the article above.
Note: The AARP has been losing members through cancellations so much so that they felt it necessary, perhaps imperative, to “distance” themselves from and SLAM Obama and his losing “Healthcare” plan. They have been very polite about it. The AARP should just say, “Obama, the socialist master liar is again, and as usual, lying.”
Obama is abundantly stupid if he thinks people are not reviewing and criticizing what he is saying. And, as a consequence, Obama’s approval ratings are falling faster … from 66% earlier this year to new lows of approximately 43%, and falling.
What we need now in America is a massive and immediate recall of as many left-leaning, Obama-supporting Congressmen and Congresswomen as possible. Start now to be sure that this Obama health care plan — tantamount to a socialist take-over of our health, life, liberty, and freedom — does NOT succeed.
@Fit fit: Sure, you’ll get a bill with the title “health care reform.” But you won’t get the left wing Christmas tree oops… make that Kwanza Bush that is anything close to the current Dem bills.
Even then, it will suck!
Democrats obviously think the average American cannot read and comprehend any better than the average congressional clunker. After all, they made sure of that with your government education.
Mike,
I find this line you wrote very interesting.
“Will the plan destroy private health insurance? – Yes.”
If that is true, is it because government run healthcare could actually be better than private health care? I was under the impression the righties liked a competitive market place. I was also under the impression that the righties also think the government can’t run anything well. Apparently that’s just not true is it?
@Real American Patriot: C.R.A.P: You are delusional.
When has government EVER done anything better than the private sector?
Didn’t you hear Obama admit that Fed Ex does a better job than the Postal Service?
Weren’t you listening to your master when he made that faux pas?
@Real American Patriot: The government never and I mean never competes fairly.But to simplify matters for you put it in terms of playing Monopoly against somebody who can draw money from the bank whenever they want to and change the rules of the game when it suits them.What do you suppose your chances of winning would be then?
@Mike’s America: Well yes that is true,what I meant was the House version is dead.
The AARP most certainly DOES support Hussein’s healthcare takeover. It just doesn’t want that support KNOWN BY ITS MEMBERS!!! AARP has lost a BOATLOAD of members over the past few weeks. Mainly because the left runs AARP and supports Hussein’s desire to trample on our rights. So blabbing about the blind support he has received from an organization whose first duty is supposed to be the welfare of the elderly–the group Hussein intends to kill of as quickly as possible–couldn’t be a smart idea! Oh well. Hyper-arrogance does not recognize contrary opinions.
White House Robert Gibbs today at the press briefing said that the President “misspoke”. He said this is a quote from Mr. Gibbs, “What the president said —AARP has said they are certainly supportive for years of health care reform that is comprehensive”, Gibbs said. He put the spin on it that the President was actually correct……..you can’t fight politics.
You would think that the President “might” consult other people with high degrees in economics about his health plan like John Lewis of DUKE UNIVERSITY and others
Mike stated:
“When has government EVER done anything better than the private sector?”
Well let’s try HEALTHCARE itself Mike
Why is that Medicare administration costs per beneficiary are at least 21% LOWER than that of private insurance companies? Maybe it’s because they actually do it better than private insurance companies!
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009/08/are-medicare-administrative-costs-high.html
It appears you are the one that is delusional, but what else should I expect from a right winger??
@Real American Patriot: Medicare has a 74 trillion dollar unfunded liability,so can we quit using that program as the shining beacon of government efficiency?
It’s high time to insist that Congressmen, all of them, and President Obama, be included in the ObamaCare plan of “reform” — they must accept and embrace their own medicine. That would be real reform. It’s time to demand that laws to this effect be passed now.
There is no reason to expect that the people of the U.S. accept healthcare “reform” without the participation of everyone, all citizens, in the plan. We do NOT have a king, or viceroys, running this country. If Congress refuses to accept the same plan for themselves then drop it. Need we remind them that we have no royalty in America.
Also, watch out for the quarter-back sneak. That’s what Congress did with the TARP legislation. They went back at it again after FAILING to convince the public the first time. This is a very old legal trick, if you don’t win at first, wait ’til your opponent forgets, loses interest, or enters a period of weakness.
If you’d like to see the Obama game plan yourself, written by Saul Alinsky (socialist-communist who dedicated it to Lucifer, Satin the very devil), see it here: http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm.
Beware. You have been advised of what is going on in the Obama administration. Obama is an incessant liar and is trying to divide the public. The only good news is that Obama is losing. He’s been caught in his lies and his “reform” is failing miserably; especially among almost all people over 40 years of age and senior citizens — many former members of AARP.
Top 10 bald-faced lies from Obama’s staged health care “town hall”: http://www.examiner.com/x-17412-Macon-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m8d12-Top-10-baldfaced-lies-from-Obamas-staged-health-care.
Besides, I think it is also high time we get Barack Obama ready for his first “end-of-life” counseling session.
RealAmericanPatriot: hahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahah
Hey, old boy: The real estate market is in bad shape but I got a bridge up for sale up in Brooklyn, NY. I’ll meet you up there, you get free hotel and meals, limo transportation to the site, and a 10% discount to boot!
You can fly up on your delusion.
The medical services may be in bad shape also, but the government sure as hedoubleL ain’t never done ANYTHING better than the private sector, except squander taxpayers hard earned money like it ain’t gone be no tomorrow.
@Real American Patriot: How many times do I have to say this: If Medicare was soooo good, then why do so many Seniors feel it necessary to buy supplemental insurance.
Again, NO government program is as efficient, or responsive to the needs of the end user as a comparable private sector program.
SARAH PALIN WAS RIGHT – THERE IS A DEATH BOARD TO REVIEW WHO DIES AND WHO GETS TREATMENT. GUESS WHAT TREATMENT CONSERVATIVES WILL GET ?
Tom N
One would think that when the Democrats are in power they would send the conservatives to the ovens, and when Republicans are in power they send the pinko liberals to the ovens. It becomes a game just like all other politics, but in this instance a ‘death’ game. Problem is that Democrats know how to play dirty and the Republicans ain’t got no backbone, so by the time it’s due for a power change-over, there ain’t no Republicans left worth a damn.
That’s right Mike when faced with facts deny them as usual and divert to something that seems to be connected… I should know better than to expect anything else from a right winger!
The FACT is the government administrates healthcare 21% cheaper than private insurance companies do.
Why some seniors buy supplemental insurance is simply because they want more coverage than is offered by Medicare.. DUH…
Does that have anything to do with the cost of administration costs per beneficiary?? maybe a little but not by 21% that’s for damn sure.
Real American Patriot:
What facts? One thing Liberals ARE good at is explaining everything away, or into their own warped perspective. The other things is they love to take from those who produce and give it to those who do not.
The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else.
Base inferences were made in the link you provided, were Book and Zycher given the opportunity to respond for themselves?
You talk about Mike diverting to something else. Well, what do you call that “Government administers health care 21% ‘cheaper’ than the private sector.” And that’s ‘administration’…just like “Lies and damn lies”, we get ‘Statistics and damn statistics” up the kazoo, but the fact remains, and I am still confused, as to which of these existing socialist health care systems are in any way efficient for the recipient? What do the recipients think? I’ve yet to locate the lovefest.
You can print your own rosy picture, but let’s see some accolades by those getting government health care. (And I don’t mean from Democrats recruited to draw swastikas or Obamacolytes planted in Town Hall meetings.)
Mr. Patriot- Healthcare in the U.S. is covered by three systems; Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance. Two of these are bankrupt, and will be unable to make payments beyond 2032 ( insert correct date here- I`m not sure). The third is solvent and can make all of its payments for the foreseeable future. Obama`s plan is to take the one system meeting its obligations and fold it into the two that are bankrupt. (Bryan Preston)
I have been following this debate very closely. I have never seen any legitimate study showing that Medicare is 21% more efficient than private insurance. In fact that is impossible. Every person over 65 must enroll in Medicare, although some have insurance based supplements such as Medicare Advantage which I have and like very much (with Kaiser). If there is absolutely no overlap, how could one be more efficient than the other? Also, estimates are that Medicare enjoys fraud losses that are as high as 20% in some studies but never lower than 17%. The bottom line here is that there are no government run programs that aren’t larded with bureaucratic heavy handedness.
One of the absolutely worst portions of Obamacare is the use of criminal like enforcement mechanisms. If a patient is discharged from a hospital and then is readmitted for the same ailment, both the doctor and the hospital are fined regardless of the medical circumstances. If a doctor resorts to an unapproved treatment, he can be fined and jailed even if it was in his best medical judgement that the regimen was appropriate and even if it worked a cure! What kind of nonsense is this?
There are issues in the American health care system, but rectifying those issues does not mean that the entire edifice has to be destroyed. I urge everyone to read the bill, especially in pages 400 to 500. I think that even Real American Patriot, a idealogue if there ever was one, would be repulsed by what is there. How would you like your heart attack to be treated by a primary care physician? Read the bill my friend, it is there in black and white. By the way, I too am an Ivy educated attorney who has been doing such for nearly 40 years. I know how to read statutes.
Disturber & Steve Rowland
Read this and weep you are so far off base it’s unreal. For you two to dispute these facts is totally laughable.
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009/08/are-medicare-administrative-costs-high.html
Disturber you complain about government programs being “larded with bureaucratic heavy handedness.” What do you call private insurance companies that are larded with fat cat CEO’s taking home MILLIONS? then private insurance companies denying coverage until forced to pay up in court cases?
Who is paying off the republican senators with MILLIONS of dollars in campaign contributions to get them to vote in favor of not having a public option?? That would be the medical insurance companies. If you care to dispute it just look it up. You will find it and there is no denying it.
@Real American Patriot: Are you suggesting that the pro-Obama health care takeover is just some spontaneous gathering of citizens?
Who is paying for all those professionally printed signs?
Who is paying to bus in the union thugs?
Who is paying for all those pro-Obama ads on TV?
Unions and other commie rat groups are spening 10’s of millions and you are pointing the finger at the GOP?
What crazy oxygen starved planet do you live on?
Get REAL!
P.S. Thanks for at least admitting that Medicare is so inadequate that millions of Americans have been forced to dip into their savings to make up the difference.
Ah, now it seems millions of people are realizing that the short-comings of Medicare and private insurance are NOT rectified by ObamaCare at all. Instead we see now that ObamaCare is a ruthless power grab of unmeasurable proportions. It would incorporate what seems to be BEAUROCRATIC medicinal directives that have little to do with the proper administration of medicine to a patient.
But alas, the truth is out. ObamaCare would be a whole rewrite of medicine for patients complete with tax increases, fines, penalties, limitations, end-of-life counseling, and the much trumpeted waits of several weeks or months for medical care.
Just say NO! Reject ObamaCare just as we finally rejected HillaryCare.
PS: I wonder if that’s why Obama sent Hillary to Africa for some wholesome obscurity.
uh, ya mean like how the Dems are paying off the pharmas? Like by keeping drugs prices high by the 12 year exclusivity agreement the Dems in the Senate are giving them? Here’s ABC’s version. The opposition wants 5 years to spur innovation and competition.
While we’re at it, how about that tort reform for malpractice in those O’healthcare bills? Oh… that’s right. There IS no tort reform because the Dem’s trial lawyer special interests won’t let them go anywhere near *real* cost reform…
I just love how the leftist amoeba think loves to point fingers at the associations of the opposition, and totally ignore the shit in their own litter box.
Well now, Fit, I might point out that the “Iceman”, Richard Kuklinski, is touted as one of America’s record breaking serial killers in the past century with over 40 murders. Is the fact you set a record important? Or doesn’t what you did as for record setting play into it?
Just how is this such a wonderful accomplishment by Obama, in light of the lack of a second party being able to thwart the majority’s bills? What he’s done (and certainly not by himself….)? i.e. tripled the debt in the span of months? Have we embarked on the path where toilet paper is worth more than the US dollar? And how long will it be before capitalism is history, and the US is bankrupt with debt and a T-note the world won’t touch
The last time we had any semblence of this majority in the last century was in 1965… which gave us LBJ’s policies. Prior to that, it was 1933 with FDR’s New Deal.
Yeah… moments to be proud of.
Needless to say, Obama not only has not “blown” anything out of the water, he’s followed down the path of his predecessors with big nanny government and the help of a corrupt Congress with little regard from the US Constitution.
Sorry CRAP… will not let you get away with this “crap”. You’re playing with rigged figures on the costs of Medicare as only the HHS budget, and is not an apples to apples comparison with private. Even the AMA admits this in their study, as I pointed out in my Aug 8th post.
Repeat the lie again, I’ll once again steer you and others to the truth…. Horse manure.
@MataHarley: I was just watching Cong. Kevin Brady (R-TX) conduct a Town Hall meeting in his district. He describes how 1/3 of all health care spending is devoted to regulation and bureaucracy.
And of course, with the chart he produced describing the many new bureaucratic structures Democrats have devised, that figure would only rise.
Have we heard any Dems propose cutting the cost of bureaucracy or frivolous lawsuits?
Absolutely, Mike. That red tape BS falls under admin costs… which, according to the AMA study… is still a higher plus for private over public. Altho, it’s a hard one to actually gauge since government costs strewn across many departments is hard to discern.
The biggest thing that bothers me about any of these versions is that they propose bigger government bureaucracy and involvement, and nothing cutting the costs of government regulations that lead to increased costs.
BTW, we need to grab Daniel Hannan’s appearance tonight on Hannity. Dang, I hate having to watch Hannity. What a mantra reciting dork. But I do watch when I want to catch his guests. And Hannan tonight was very good.
@ Disturber
Politicians do not understand that the the practice of Medicine, (while relatively advanced in this day and age in America,) is still not an exact science. Complications may occur, the patient may not follow the doctor’s prescribed treatment wholly, patient allergies are learned of, it may take a few changes in treatment to solve the problem, and the true health of the patient may be unknown.
Real American Patriot:
Welllll..actually, I read the craplink you put out the first time back up on the thread on #14, and your putting it out again a few of posts above on #25 didn’t improve the smell none.
The ‘facts’ are as you behold them, and with those rosy tinted glasses, along with whatever else it is you are smoking, the ‘facts’ ain’t gone change none for ‘Real’AmericanPatriots.
The ‘Real’ fact is that this drivel you linked into to substantiate your contentions is nothing but something spewing out of the south end of a horse traveling north.
# 15 KJC:
“Medicare has a 74 trillion dollar unfunded liability,so can we quit using that program as the shining beacon of government efficiency?”
And why, one would ask, is that liability unfunded?
Medicare was a dedicated tax placed upon citizens through their payroll checks. That money was held in escrow by the Government, if you will, for a ‘down the road’ medical coverage. The money that was placed into the Medicare fund was raped and pillaged a long time ago and thrown into the General Budget, to fund liberal pet projects. Now that there is economic h*ll to pay for that decision years ago, Obama wants to kill off those who funded Medicare in the first place: Those who worked their entire lives on the books and are now retired, expecting something from the Government for all the money the Government took as a matter of course for all those years.
The amazing thing to me is that this Administration gets away with one lie after another, one fact misstated after one more fact misstated. No one ever calls them on it. They are lying so brazenly now, it’s gone beyond kabuki theater and become a theater of the absurd. Socialism at Ludicrous Speed.
@Real American Patriot:
AKA Proud Franken Voter.
Jumping on the insurance company boogey man train, are you? Let’s give you another boogey man. Evil doctors. Yep, evil doctors that are no longer taking medicare/medicaid patients because of the efficiency of the government. Read it and weep:
Here’s an evil doctor that may lose her practice due to the efficiency of the government’s reimbursement rates:
http://a.abcnews.com/m/screen?id=5326078&pid=26
Here’s two evil clinics that shut down and another evil doctor that closed his practice due to the efficiency of the government’s reimbursement rates:
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11928468
More evil…
Doctors Are Opting Out of Medicare
http://aaucm.org/About/News/NewsDetail.aspx?a=966
Now we can add your source to once again prove the government is not capable of running anything. This site, the example you, the “proud Franken voter” boasts as some kind of proof that this boondoggle is worthwhile is like Obama using the FedEx, UPS/post office example to support his argument.
@Missy: And my father, who quit practicing after 40 years because the malpractice insurance rates caused by frivolous law suits was so high was the only OB-GYN in town that would take Medicaid patients.
It was total B.S. how hard he had to work just to get his money from Medicaid only to turn around and pay it to a lawyer.
I don’t know who the poor go to for OB-GYN services in town anymore. I suppose they are all forced to go to some far away clinic and be treated like cattle.
And Dems are directly responsible for that sad state of affairs. They created this bureaucratic and legal nightmare and they have refused EVERY effort to correct these problems as the recent votes in House committees against GOP amendments to the health bill show.
@Mike’s America:
Down at our farm expectant mothers have a choice, they either travel 40 miles up into Iowa or travel 40 miles to another town in Missouri. We have a hospital 13 miles away but they quit delivering years ago.
That hospital might as well be a walk in clinic, we had an eleven year old boy break his arm while visiting, I had to drive him home, 389 miles with a broken arm, he was a tough little trooper.
Our neighbor’s daughter was in an auto accident, she had no life threatening injuries, they air lifted her to Des Moines, same with her brother after he was thrown off a 4-wheeler. They had whatever insurance Wal-Mart offers because the mother works there full time.
Our friends live off the blacktop about five miles down gravel roads, they’re on a registry to be airlifted in case of emergency, the local hospital isn’t interested in treating them, both have catastrophic illnesses, the wife is on medicare and the husband has VA. They travel to St. Joseph and Des Moines for office appointments because….ta da….no doctors in that area taking medicare/medicaid patients and of course, he has to go to the VA.
After office hours that hospital doesn’t even keep a doctor on call. My daughter had an asthma attack and they had to call a doctor in from home to come and treat her, but, she did recieve treatment and they did keep her overnight until she was stable.
It is a real shame that good doctors spend years in med school and in residency, only to be told half of what you make goes for malpractice insurance all the while paying their fair share of taxes to boot. The problem is frivolous lawsuits. Granted, there are some doctors who are in it for the money and could care less about their patients and does not give them good care. They deserve to be sued. The ones I am talking about are the ones who will pull double-duty and will go out of their way to ensure their patients are properly cared for. I have had both kinds in my old age. I have never sued a doctor, but on one ocassion had reason to. Except for that one doctor, every one I have had has been exceptional in their care of me and my family. Too many good doctors are being forced out of their profession due to ambulance chasing lawyers.
The last question should’ve been is congress and the president going yo be force into the same coverage and out of the high dollar programs they’re in now.
I have been practicing Family Medicine/General Practice for fifty years now and intend to keep doing so as long as God gives me the strength. I know my fellow doctors and my patients well. This onerous legislation is designed to concentrate political power in the hands of government. It must go down. I am appalled as a physician and as an citizen of our beloved America. Thank you for your excellent site. We are many; we are angry and we will fight.
Dr. Delaney
@Fit fit:
Someone mentioned INTrade, yes? That number is now down to 14.1%.
Here’s the question they are asking:
My, my how quickly things change.