17 Responses to “Cap and Trade is Another Big Payoff to Obama’s Supporters”

  1. 2

    Fit fit

    This biggest payoff for cap and trade (which I don’t support) is the nuclear power industry (which I do support).

  2. 3

    Catherine

    What did you expect another tel-o-prompter guy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631knZM9Uiw
    President Bush 1st Pitch after 9 11

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Obama-reps-Chicago-s-South-Side-delivers-first-?urn=mlb,176561
    Obama’s pitch was a no-doubt-about-it ball, even factoring in an expanded strike zone for the Commander-in-Chief. Obama’s southpaw delivery was a little short of the plate, but Cardinals star Albert Pujols(notes) was able to save it by quickly scooping it up.

    [PROVES HE IS NOT ON ALL AMERICANS SIDE
    Even Bush who owned a team never would do such a thing to show a favorite in public because he was president of all the people] bho shows not president of all the people.]

    or his choice of attire (he chose to wear a long-sleeved White Sox jacket in support of his favorite team and a pair of regular old blue jeans) was unclear.
    “My wife thinks I’m cute in the White Sox jacket,” Obama later told Joe Buck and Tim McCarver in the broadcast booth

    Just thinking out of the box?

    http://www.geocodezip.com/v2_activeVolcanos.asp

    [MAKES the crops not good when the fall harvest is cut off? Early winter.

    Hope the farmers in England see the signs there will be an early winter the animals are rutting 2 mo.s early.
    This is why cold is worse than warm weather plants have a time line to harvest in nature and early freeze kills plants but they don’t teach things like this anymore because of the crap GW [global warming]

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8146995.stm
    Sunday, 12 July 2009
    Children die in harsh Peru winter
    By Dan Collyns
    BBC News, Lima
    Almost 250 children under the age of five have died in a wave of intensely cold weather in Peru.
    Children die from pneumonia and other respiratory infections every year during the winter months particularly in Peru’s southern Andes.
    But this year freezing temperatures arrived almost three months earlier than usual.
    Experts blame climate change for the early arrival of intense cold which began in March.
    Winter in the region does not usually begin until June.
    The extreme cold, which has brought snow, hail, freezing temperatures and strong winds, has killed more children than recorded annually for the past four years.
    A total of 246 under the age of five have died so far, only half way through the winter months.
    One third of the deaths were registered in the southern region of Puno, much of which is covered by a high plateau known as the altiplano which extends into neighbouring Bolivia.
    Aid workers say prolonged exposure to the cold is causing hypothermia and deadly respiratory infections such as pneumonia.

    OOPs

    Murdock: The chills of Global Cooling
    By DEROY MURDOCK, Scripps Howard News Service
    editorials and
    07/09/2009

    As cap-and-trade advocates tie their knickers in knots over so-called “global warming,” Mother Nature refuses to cooperate. Earth’s temperatures continue a chill that began 11 years ago. As global cooling accelerates, global-warmists kick, scream, and push their pet theory — just like little kids who cover their ears and stomp their feet when older children tell them not to bother waiting up for Santa Claus on Christmas Eve.
    Consider how the globe cooled last month:

    Snip

    “TEMPERATURE: LOWEST EVER FOR MAY FOR MANY AREAS, COLDER THAN NORMAL FOR ALL.”
    — South African officials say cold weather killed two vagrants in the Eastern Cape. Both slept outdoors June 26 and froze to death.
    Simmer down, global-warmists retort. These are mere anecdotes, hand-picked to make them look silly.
    Well, one would be foolish to challenge space-born satellites that gauge Earth’s mean temperatures —cold, hot, and average. Here again, evidence of global cooling accumulates like snow drifts.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8147279.stm
    Monday, 13 July 2009
    ‘Whistling’ deer spark searches
    A mountain rescue team called out twice to investigate shrill whistling suspect it was the call of deer and not walkers in distress.
    Snip
    The animals make the whistling sound as a warning and during mating season, which runs from September to November

    Snip

    Sika deer were introduced from Asia to parks in the UK in 1860, but escapees have established themselves in the countryside

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8145541.stm
    Monday, 13 July 2009
    Tennessee gun law divides opinion
    By James Coomarasamy
    BBC News, Nashville, Tennessee
    Following a recent series of high-profile shooting incidents in the United States, the southern state of Tennessee is changing its gun laws this week.
    It is relaxing them.

    G-D I love America Oops how did that get in there?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8147329.stm
    Monday, 13 July 2009
    Sudan women ‘lashed for trousers’
    Several Sudanese women have been flogged as a punishment for dressing “indecently”, according to a local journalist who was arrested with them.
    Snip
    Khartoum, unlike South Sudan, is governed by Sharia law.
    Several of those punished were from the mainly Christian and animist south, Ms Hussein said.
    Non-Muslims are not supposed to be subject to Islamic law, even in Khartoum and other parts of the mainly Muslim north.

    OOPS

    Just thinking out of the box?

    http://www.norilskrussia.net/
    Promoting Tourism to Norilsk Russia: The Most Northerly City on Earth
    Welcome to Paradise

    For all those lost jobs in Montan-a. I’m sure the relocation plan is still in place.

    Catherine

  3. 4

    yonason

    THE BA****DS ARE LYING ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING!

    Record low reached this morning, chilly temps expected tonight
    Victoria E. Freile – Staff writer
    Local News – July 14, 2009 – 8:19am
    http://rocnow.com/article/local-news/200990714002

    Warm day to be followed by possible record cool temps
    The Capital Times — 7/15/2009 6:03 am
    http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=158100

    113-Year Record Cold in Pittsburgh, 27 in M
    I
    Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:35 AM
    http://www.accuweather.com/mt-news-blogs.asp?partner=accuweather&blog=Weathermatrix&pgurl=/mtweb/content/Weathermatrix/archives/2009/07/113_year_record_cold_in_pittsburgh.asp
    A number of record lows have been broken, here is a partial list as of 8:30 AM (we won’t really know how many until NCDC releases the data tomorrow morning). This morning’s temp and the previous year are shown. Note that Pittsburgh hadn’t been this cold on this day for 113 years!

    Published: July 15, 2009 03:50 am
    Heard Around Town
    It’s official: This is one of the coldest Julys on record. According to Salisbury weather watcher Ray Whitley, we experienced a record cold for July 10, at 49 degrees, which is 2 degrees colder than the prior 1983 record.
    http://www.newburyportnews.com/punews/local_story_195230731.html

    July 10, 2009
    Report Blames Heavy Rains on Warming Despite Record Cold
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/07/report_blames_heavy_rains_on_w.html

    After a near record cold start, a stunning Friday forecast
    by abc40 Meteorologist Eric Fisher
    Friday July 10, 2009, 4:47 AM
    A cool, crisp, fall-like feel to the air will greet you when you step outdoors this morning. Many towns dropped down into the upper 40s overnight, well below the normal low for this time of year which is in the low 60s.
    http://www.masslive.com/weather/index.ssf/2009/07/after_a_near_record_cold_start.html

    Record Cold in Regina, Estevan
    Regina Beats 92-Year-Old Record Low
    For people camping at Craven, or elsewhere, it was a chilly start to the weekend in parts of southern Saskatchewan.
    Environment Canada meteorologist Jean Theriault (TERR-ee-oh) says Regina broke the record cold temperature for July 11.
    http://www.newstalk650.com/story/20090711/19255

    The Nation’s Weather
    7/11/09
    Updated: Saturday, 11 Jul 2009, 7:50 PM MDT
    Published : Saturday, 11 Jul 2009, 7:50 PM MDT
    The other [RECORD COLD] occurred at Orlando, Florida with a record low temperature of 69 degrees, which breaks the old record of 70 degrees set in 1975.
    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/weather/nations_weather_07_11_2009

  4. 5

    GaffaUK

    Hmmm – confusing specific weather in certain locations at certain times with climate. See below – as true now as it was true back in January

    The World Meteorological Organization says cold weather does not mean that global warming has abated. WMO says people should not confuse weather with climate.

    People in Europe are shivering, while people in North Asia and parts of Australia are sweltering. Scientists say these weather extremes are to be expected and neither phenomenon can be used as a case for or against global warming.

    Secretary-General of the World Meteorological Organization, Michel Jarraud, says people should not confuse local weather variability with climate change.

    Just because people in Geneva and elsewhere in Europe are shivering does not mean global warming has stopped. He says the trend toward global warming is still there.

    “I think we have to be careful not to interpret any single event as a proof of either warming or the fact that warming has stopped,” he said. “When scientists look at the global warming, they take into account many, many old possible available evidence. So, we cannot explain any single phenomenon by one single cause.”

    Jarraud says last year was cooler than the year before, but 2008 still ranks as the 10th warmest year on record.

    He says average global surface temperatures have climbed significantly since 1850, when historical weather statistics were first recorded.

    “Global warming will mean that heat waves like the one we got in Western Europe in 2003 will become more frequent. But, it does not mean that the 2003 heat wave was produced by global warming … Last year, we know that part of the relative cooling was due to the La Nina phenomena, which was moderate to strong in the first part of 2008. Then in the second part of 2008, it became closer to what we call neutral condition. Now, it is a little bit unclear what will happen this year,” he said.

    Jarraud says every year, somewhere in the world weather records will be broken. He says every year, exceptional weather events will take place somewhere in the world. He says people have to look at the global picture to assess whether climate change is taking place.

    Scientists say human activity contributes to climate change, but they do not agree on the pace at which climate change may be unfolding.

    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2009-01/2009-01-14-voa5.cfm?CFID=253490532&CFTOKEN=37938014&jsessionid=8430d24486bae20076d3103872a3c5a2b3b1

  5. 6

    Hard Right

    So let me get this straight, we have been tracking temps only since 1850. Yet these AGW loons want us to believe they have all the answers as to climate change? 2008 10th warmest in a 159 years. Oh yes, that’s proof it’s human caused. (roll eyes)

    BTW gaff, I clearly remember agw proponents blaming Katrina on AGW and other localized weather issues on agw. Perhaps people would be less skeptical if their “solutions” weren’t to make themselves rich and powerful at our expense.

  6. 7

    liam09

    Fit, I’m with you on the Nuclear energy part. Funny how we promote it in the rest of the world, but not in our own country.

    Gaf,
    I live in colorado and there are fossils of palm trees (really old) in just about every fossil bed around. But the kicker is this: except for fake palm trees, I can’t seem to find any left! There is also amazing evidence of colorado being under water and also frozen over. The concept isn’t just believing that people are helping to change the climate, but that people are going to be the cause of mass flooding, billions of dollars worth of damage, millions of people dying, and oh man.. we will be sooo sorry that we didn’t listen to Al Gore. Did you know he also invented the internet?

    That article only says to me, “We scientists know the truth. We aren’t pointing to any real falsifiable evidence. But just watch, temperature records will be broken around the world (high and low). Just because we can’t prove it, our accurate evidence/plottable points is extremely young, there are a lot of people benefiting financially from it, doesn’t mean that Man Bear Pig, I mean uh-hem, global warming, I mean uh-hem global climate change isn’t real. Man Bear Pig is real, and you-all will be super stoked on us when we kill it.”

  7. 8

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    Gaffa #5… the WMO? You mean the UN’s “…authoritative voice on the state and behaviour of the Earth’s atmosphere, its interaction with the oceans, the climate it produces and the resulting distribution of water resources.” *That* WMO?

    The WMO who were co creators of the IPCC along with UNEP, which carefully constructed the colossal lie at the heart of the Al Gore religion, and is the platform for the universal power grap for money and regulations?

    *THAT* WMO???

    Why would you expect them to say anything *but* that colder weather is part of global warming? Why that would just blow their world power grab right out of the temperature rising water….

    duh wuh….

    Let’s get something truly straight. Climate changes. It’s changed in the past when man wasn’t around with technology. It will change in the future when man will no longer be around. It changes on Mars and the rest of our solar system… where man isn’t present but in his dreams.

    Do we all want clean air? Yes. But not at the expense of the world’s economy and technological advances. It is the apocolypse? Only if the wacko enviros get their way and transform the world into third world conditions with idiocy like cap and trade… already a major debacle on record for years with other nations’ attempts. (read 2005 testimony about your own EU Emissions Trading system)

    What can man do about climate change? Prepare and adapt. Not regulate the world into poverty… adapt. And right now, they ought to be thinking about another mini Ice Age and the damage that can cause. If they want us to buy into the notion that emissions cause global warming, I say let’s all buy Hummers and take road trips. ’twas a bone chilling winter compared to usual here….

    And please, please… don’t be bringing in the ultimate Pinocchio – aka the UN and agencies – as your source material. It does so make you look like the fool. Might as well believe the used car salesman, selling you a thrashed and trashed MGA, when he tells you it’s 50 original miles and never been in an accident.

  8. 9

    GaffaUK

    @Hard Right

    So let me get this straight, we have been tracking temps only since 1850.

    Yes but there also other ways to get an idea what the temperatures of earth were like. For instance looking at the ice cores you can go back 800,000 years or more.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoclimatology

    But in the case of modern tracking of temperatures – at what point would you like tracking to continue before you believe is long enough to analyse? Another 150 years?

    Yet these AGW loons want us to believe they have all the answers as to climate change?

    I don’t think that is the case.

    2008 10th warmest in a 159 years. Oh yes, that’s proof it’s human caused. (roll eyes)

    Which scientists which deal with climate have claimed that is proof in itself?

    BTW gaff, I clearly remember agw proponents blaming Katrina on AGW and other localized weather issues on agw.

    Exactly and I agree localised weather shouldn’t be used either way.

    Perhaps people would be less skeptical if their “solutions” weren’t to make themselves rich and powerful at our expense

    Good point – although tricky. On one hand it would be better for the US and the West to turn it’s back on oil (not immediately but lowering it’s dependence – particularly on Middle East oil) and to get government and the free market involved. And if the free market is involved then you want people who sell such things as solar panels etc to MAKE MONEY. However I agree in schemes like cap & trade where there is regulation – you don’t want the regulators cashing in (like Al Gore) as it opens them up to such criticism.

  9. 10

    GaffaUK

    @Liam09

    I live in colorado and there are fossils of palm trees (really old) in just about every fossil bed around. But the kicker is this: except for fake palm trees, I can’t seem to find any left! There is also amazing evidence of colorado being under water and also frozen over

    I don’t fully get your point. If you are saying that the current warming on the earth where man is contributing can’t actually be because of man as the climate as always changed without the interference of man (indeed even before man appeared) then that makes no sense at all – and hardly disproves the current theory.

    @MataHarley

    Taking one point…

    Let’s get something truly straight. Climate changes. It’s changed in the past when man wasn’t around with technology. It will change in the future when man will no longer be around. It changes on Mars and the rest of our solar system… where man isn’t present but in his dreams.

    Let’s nail this one. Can you point to any scientist dealing in climate change that has claimed otherwise?

  10. 11

    liam09

    @GaffaUK:
    So by pointing to the fact that there is huge conclusive evidence for the earth going through extremes (that couldn’t possibly be man made or man-contributed), you don’t see how that isn’t a point? That just possibly, man is again looking at irrelevant data in support of a cause that just so happens, to be making other people /very/ rich? Shouldn’t a little skepticism be used? Also, your article was a vague and haughty example of scientism at its best.

    For example, for science to work, we need to have falsifiable data. This article instead points to

    Jarraud says every year, somewhere in the world weather records will be broken. He says every year, exceptional weather events will take place somewhere in the world. He says people have to look at the global picture to assess whether climate change is taking place.

    Scientists say human activity contributes to climate change, but they do not agree on the pace at which climate change may be unfolding.

    Soooo we can’t drive data off local samples, we have to look at global samples. But only at the global level can we look at local samples and fit them into the model?! In other words, anytime there is a heatwave in a cold place, GLOBAL WARMING! Not exactly taking the road of truth to see where it leads now are we. And oh yeah, they of course use ‘Scientists say…’ in the general sense to help along their phraseology of the subject. Factualize by using generalizations, and create a presupposition in peoples minds as to the current state of what ‘science’ believes. Has always worked, and will always work, on the ignorant masses.

    I also found this just too funny

    Last year, we know that part of the relative cooling was due to the La Nina phenomena, which was moderate to strong in the first part of 2008. Then in the second part of 2008, it became closer to what we call neutral condition. Now, it is a little bit unclear what will happen this year,” he said.

    A little bit unclear what what will happen this year, he said… hmmm. I have seen the models that put most of florida under water, but hell, things are a little unclear as to what will happen this year.

    The phenomena that man is adversely affecting the environment and going to cause cataclysmic events unless we spend billions/trillions, should be looked upon skeptically unless there were huge amounts of conclusive proof. You know why? Because most of the other conclusive proof, such as the fact the earth goes through cycles of hot and cold, does not point to man made intervention. I can only think of a couple reasons why people would so quickly buy into this: if you have the potential to make a lot of money (labs, politicians, investors etc), a conspiracy theorist, or will believe anything people feed you. I would say stupid, but I know some people are just easy to lead astray.

  11. 12

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    Let’s nail this one. Can you point to any scientist dealing in climate change that has claimed otherwise?

    …. and your point would be?

    Does their casual acknowledgement that climate changes with, or without man, negate their political agenda to oversee sweeping global legislation and regulations that would bankrupt the developing nations? And does the truth of climate change being quite normal change any of the power grab associated with the below statement:

    The Secretary-General notes that largely thanks to the IPCC’s lucid and well-documented findings, it is now established beyond doubt that climate change is happening, and that much of it is caused by human activity. As a result, there is now unprecedented momentum for action on climate change around the world, and recognition of the UN as the forum for reaching agreement on it

  12. 14

    yonason

    @MataHarley:

    “…. and your [the Gaffer’s] point would be?”

    By now you know he hasn’t one, except to create a dissonance. He’s not even “debating,” as he keeps insisting, but using those techniques to undermine not be reason but by being disruptive. There’s even a name for that particular comment of his, and that is “double speak.”

    In the above case he knows he has no point (or he’s incredibly stupid), but to someone who isn’t familiar with the material we are discussing he might seem to have raised an important point, even though he hasn’t. …a useless waste of time, and a deliberate spoiler.

  13. 15

    Mike's America


    Warning: implode() [function.implode]: Invalid arguments passed in /var/www/vhosts/floppingaces.net/httpdocs/wp-content/themes/floppingaces-2015/functions.php on line 281

    @yonason: You’re right. Every time I think he’s showing a glimmer of common sense he goes off the reservation.

    From long experience with him I can tell you that he goes first to whatever anti-American, anti-capitalist view is in vogue and runs with it without even researching the facts.

    He works on Video games for a living so fantasy, not reality, is his natural state of being.

  14. 16

    GaffaUK

    @Liam09

    So by pointing to the fact that there is huge conclusive evidence for the earth going through extremes (that couldn’t possibly be man made or man-contributed), you don’t see how that isn’t a point?

    No I don’t. You seem to be suggesting that because earth has gone through extremes temperature before without contribution from Man then any change we might be seeing now couldn’t possibly be aided by Man. If that is the case – then that patently doesn’t make sense. I’ll give an example that I gave in an another thread. Thousands of species have gone extinct before Man walked on the planet but over the last few hundreds of years Man has contributed to the extinction of some species. Whilst not all recent extinctions are the fault of man – I don’t think anyone would deny that Man has contributed to plenty of extinctions. To say – extinctions have happened in the past which weren’t due to man – therefore man cannot be responsible for ANY extinctions in modern times would be absurd.

    I’m sure those Paleoclimatologists who believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming are more than aware that climate also has changed in the past before, will do so when Man is no longer on the earth and that current climate change is not soley caused purely by Man….That’s what they do! But conversely because we use the figures from ice cores etc which give us indications of what the climate was like hundreds of thousands of years ago from Paleoclimatologists research – it doesn’t automatically we have to go further and automatically believe in AGW just because some of those (I suspect the majority) of Paleoclimatologists believe in AGW. Either way when any Climate Skeptic mentions that climate has changed in the past and is always changing irrespective of what man does – that’s like saying the sky is blue – basically it’s an irrelevant point and neither proves or disproves AGW.

    That just possibly, man is again looking at irrelevant data in support of a cause that just so happens, to be making other people /very/ rich?

    Seperate point from above. And a more valid point. There is a chance that there is some vast global conspiracy where a large number of scientists have got together and have decided to completely make up a theory due to political reasons (e.g. they are socialists and are trying to bankrupt the US etc) or for monetary reasons. I give this as much credence as those conspiracy theorists who believe that the US government was behind 9/11. It stretches credibility that so many are involved with such a conspiracy. For instance because Haliburton and Cheney made money due to the Iraq War I don’t therefore believe the Iraq War was purposefully caused just to make money. No doubt that Bush and the neo-cons believed in what they were doing in some grand strategy. They no doubt believed that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat. I think oil played a part etc – but however mistaken – I believe Bush & co did it for the reasons they state.

    Soooo we can’t drive data off local samples, we have to look at global samples. But only at the global level can we look at local samples and fit them into the model?! In other words, anytime there is a heatwave in a cold place, GLOBAL WARMING! Not exactly taking the road of truth to see where it leads now are we.

    That’s just you being cynical. Not all parts of the earth will warm at the same pace. You have to take into account seasons, solar activity, earth’s tilt/path, localised weather patterns etc etc. But you can collate these figures over a period and put them into a global picture WITHOUT having to force into proving a theory. For instance – take glaciers. It’s true that some glaciers aren’t retreating.

    http://www.emeraldarc.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/glacier_mass_balance_map.png

    So some skeptics would and have jumped on this to prove AGW is false. However now look at the bigger picture over the last few decades and you can see the proportions of glaciers retreating BY FAR out weigh those which are not.

    ‘Scientists say…’ in the general sense to help along their phraseology of the subject. Factualize by using generalizations, and create a presupposition in peoples minds as to the current state of what ’science’ believes. Has always worked, and will always work, on the ignorant masses.

    I agree – both sides on most debates use generalisations which aren’t helpful.

    A little bit unclear what what will happen this year, he said… hmmm. I have seen the models that put most of florida under water, but hell, things are a little unclear as to what will happen this year.

    That doesn’t surprise me. No doubt the models that put Florida under water don’t state exactly what year that will happen. In the same way – those who believe in AGW (and I have never been 100% convinced – I feel so far they have been more convincing as a whole than the skeptics who throw out red herrings etc) – believe within the next few decades the global average temperature will climb higher. That doesn’t mean it will get hotter day in day out – but the general direction will go up.

    Because most of the other conclusive proof, such as the fact the earth goes through cycles of hot and cold, does not point to man made intervention.

    Oh dear – so you do believe that this rules out AGW. Again that doesn’t contradict AGW one iota. You know the two can coexist – it’s not black or white – as in either nature cause climate change or man does.