Dec

Pleading the Fifth [Reader Post]

Posted by: Steve @ 11:02 am in Barack Obama | 1 views

The 5th amendment to the US Constitution (excerpt): “…nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself”… gives citizens the right against “self incrimination”. Is it any wonder that witnesses before the Senate judiciary either lie or ‘take the fifth’ to get off the hot seat and back to business as usual? Notice, however, it reads: “in any criminal case”, thus it clearly states that “When a citizen is accused and indicted in a criminal case, they shall not be compelled to testify against themselves if they feel that in doing so they will negatively impact their case.” Lawyers, of course, have muddied the waters regarding the issue, which now means “any proceeding”, on the assumption that testimony given in a neutral proceeding may be used to incriminate the person testifying in a subsequent proceeding. Be that as it may, this is simply legal shenanigans for the betterment of lawyers and increase their already inflated “billable hours” to the greatest extent possible.

What we sometimes fail to note, however, is that government can plead the 5th when it allows unanswered questions to run rampant as it did in 9/11. Likewise, Barrak Hussein Obama is pleading the 5th by simply refusing to allow confirmation that he is legally born in the United States of America. His lawyers are doing all the talking, but essentially Obams is pulling the strings. The copy does say at the bottom that: “This copy serves as prima face evidence in any court proceeding”, and thus is the basis for the Obama factions to say this is a done deal. Most of us would see a birth certificate (although this matter actually contains other questions) as a relatively simple means of identification and it is universally accepted in the United States as such. The certificate, however, is simply a certificate of ‘live birth’ and states that Obama was born live, sic.

Taking a look at the “Certificate of Live Birth” below, exactly what information does it convey? What hospital was Obama born in? Who was the attending physician? Why is Obama fighting to keep this information from the light? It isn’t a criminal proceeding, and given the political climate of America right now, is not going to make any difference in the election results, but millions of citizens did not vote for Obama. I was one of them, and like MataHarley, feel that there is a compelling reason for Obama to bring the facts into the light, regardless of the other millions who voted for Obama not knowing or not giving a damn who he is. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama has something to hide by using these legalities. More than half those who voted did not have a clue as to whom Obama really is, and the remaining citizens who did not vote for him are being kept in the dark as to whom he is. Also, knowing the hospital and attending physician is an information trail. Why is he fighting release?

The Supreme Court will decide whether to hear the suit before the court. Only 4 judges need concur for the matter to go before the full court. We have 4 conservative justices who believe in the Constitution as it is written and not the bogus “evolving document’ claptrap sung by addlepates on the left. If those four conclude this is a constitutional matter, then hopefully this matter will be concluded and whatever the court finds should settle the matter.

Isreal News

Excerpt:

Someone is lying. According to Obama’s Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.

Many U.S. voters are suspicious of the Democratic candidate’s past, and Berg filed a lawsuit to force Barack Hussein Obama to produce a certified copy of his original birth certificate to prove that he can run for the office of President of the United States. However, he is being fought. The DNC On Sept. 24 filed a motion to dismiss the Berg action. Why? What is there to hide? Why not produce the original birth certificate and be done with all the suspicions against Barack Hussein Obama?

A few months back, a birth certificate WAS posted on the internet which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Yet some say this birth certificate is a forgery and again, his grandmother states that she was present at the birth, in Kenya. So what is the truth?

One explanation is that Obama’s mother Ann Dunham, flew to Kenya in 1961 with Obama’s father to meet his family. According to some news reports, Ann Dunham, was not accepted well by her husband’s family because she was white:

“Obama’s family did not take to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama very well, because she was white, according to Sarah Obama. Shortly after she arrived in Kenya Stanley Ann decided to return to Hawaii because she later said, she did not like how Muslim men treated their wives in Kenya. However, because she was near term the airline would not let her fly until after the birth of her baby. Obama’s grandmother said the baby—Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.—was born in Kenya and that shortly after he was born, Stanley Ann returned to Hawaii.”

However, by the time she wanted to leave Kenya, it was during the late stages of her pregnancy. She was not able to board a plane because the airlines wouldn’t allow women so close to birth to fly. It is instead believed, that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya as his grandmother apparently stated. Then, after he was born, his mother returned with him to Hawaii where his birth was REGISTERED on or about August 8th, 1961, in the public records office in Hawaii.

There is also a discrepancy in what hospital Barack Hussein Obama was born in, even if he was born in Hawaii. Reports by his own sister in two separate interviews state that he was born at two different hospitals– Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital–in Honolulu.

The Times Herald even reports: “the senator’s grandmother, brother and sister, who live in Kenya, believe they were present during Obama’s birth in the African country.” Here, the Times Herald uses the word that his family ‘believe’ he was born in Kenya (perhaps to avoid possible law suits by Obama’s Truth Squad?).

did some searching around, and came up with:

Obama was born on August 4, 1961, at the Kapiolani Medical Center.

Here it says:

Barack Obama was born at the Queen’s Medical Center on 4 August 1961.

So which hospital was it, or was he really born in Kenya? And why is this simple matter so confusing and disturbing? Do the search your self and plug in these key words:

Obama born Queen’s Medical Center and then Obama born Kapiolani Medical Center in a Google search. You will see he is reported to be born in two diferent hospitals. A miracle! Maybe he IS the Messiah. (grin).

What’s so hard about knowing something so simple as which hospital or country someone was born in? And if it is simple, then why doesn’t Barack Hussein Obama just present the court with his original birth certificate to be analysed and proven? The onus of proof is on him, not the American public of which he wants their trust in him to be their leader.

So, who is lying? Barack? His grandmother? His sister? Someone is.

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37 comments so far

Kay L

If the assertion is that she flew back from Kenya after he was born–would she not have had to have had a passport for the baby? And wouldn’t there be a record of it somewhere like a flight manifest for the flight she was denied and the one she was actually on, if that were the case?

I agree that he should simply present his birth certificate to the Supremes. And it is somewhat troubling that he does not, considering what the rest of us go through to prove we are citizens.

But, since an alternative sequence of events has been posited, why not investigate for evidence of those events? It’s harder to prove a negative –”He wasn’t born here” than it is to prove a positive — “He flew to Hawaii with his mother when he was an infant.”

If it happened the way that has been posited, there would have been witnesses. And in 1964, it was not a common sight to see a caucasian woman with a dark skinned baby–even going between Kenya and Hawaii. It would have attracted some notice.

All in all, I think the problem with this issue, is that if he was in fact born in Kenya, that he never be allowed to use it to circumvent the Constitutional authority of the Congress and Senate. If he is not a natural born citizen, then no one must never know it and he must behave (legally) in all ways that a natural born citizen would.

December 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am

MataHarley

Berg’s certainly isn’t the only case in the judicial food chain, Steve. Alan Keyes’ lawsuit is another in the works. And while Berg’s may be thrown out if they decide he does not have standing, Keyes’ suit would pass muster as an opposing candidate.

But I certainly believe that when anyone faces a lawsuit, no one should be given a pass by arguing the lawsuit is frivolous. Certainly Obama would rank higher in my respect if he just answered the questions instead of paying big bucks to attorneys merely to dodge the questions.

I ran across a blog article on this just this AM from Intellectual Conservative that offers yet another view from a semi-retired attorney, Steven D. Laib. And this is private citizens acting as a private attorney general when the officials do not.

While the courts have generally looked with disfavor on suits such as his, they have been wrong to do so, and they should allow this suit for a very simple reason. When no one else, i.e. government agencies, is enforcing the law of the land, only private citizens may do so, and the only manner in which they may do so, short of armed insurrection is in the courts.

Within this context, Berg is effectively acting as a “Private Attorney General” acting on behalf of all of the citizens of the United States. He does so because the Federal Election Commission, the other candidates and the U.S. Attorney General have done nothing to determine Mr. Obama’s eligibility. All of them could have and should have.

The situation is similar to that which occurred in 1968, when the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for President of the United States. California Secretary of State Frank Jordan, discovered that according to Mr. Cleaver’s birth certificate, he was one year short of the required 35 years needed to run. Cleaver was removed from the ballot and Jordan’s actions were upheld in the courts.

~~~

There is a second and even more important reason why the certificate must be produced. As Berg’s suit, and those of other parties have pointed out, birth status is a constitutional requirement to hold the office of president. If this rule is not followed, then it brings into question the issue of whether or not any aspect of the Constitution, at all, must be followed.

Already we have seen challenges in the courts and in the overall media environment of certain government actions. Whether we are dealing with establishing the Federal Reserve Bank, removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, or bailing out the financial and automobile industries, people have valid questions. Sometimes it is not enough to say “you have no standing to sue” or “this is covered under the legislative interstate commerce clause and is settled law.” It is a slippery slope argument, but such arguments are not invalid simply because of the foundation they are built on.

The courts should regularly review such actions to prevent legislative power from running unchecked. The intent of the framers of the document should carry significant weight in such review.

Laib states he really has no interest in the suit beyond it silencing any future conspiracy theories. I have to agree. Certainly after years of listening to the left’s whining about the Bush/Gore election and laughingly (in the wake of their primaries) stating “every vote must count”, even I don’t want to be subjected to four years of unelected or illegal POTUS statements – even from the right.

December 7th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Wisdom

After I got married almost twenty years ago, my wife’s paperwork with Social Security office requesting her name change got lost somehow, and her name was never officially changed with them. It never seemed important enough to follow up on and the issue only ever came up when we filed our taxes and she had to sign using both her married name and her maiden name. It never came up, that is, until a couple years ago when the State of Wyoming wouldn’t renew her driver’s license until she provided a social security card that had the same name as her marriage license. Never mind that she had a birth certificate, never mind that she had a marriage license, never mind that they had been issuing her driver’s licenses under her new name for over 16 years. Too bad, they said, they had to comply with the Patriot Act. Now, my illegal-alien Canadian brother-in-law can get a driver’s license, and Barack Obama can be President of the United States without a valid birth certificate, but my wife can’t get a driver’s license without an updated social security card? What am I missing here?

December 7th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Steve Rowland

KayL:
Very good points, Kay and I will try to respond according to what I know so far: The plane ticket is a good point, however, as I understand the child would not need a passport and not even a ticket. He would be on the passenger manifest though so that is something to look into.

One has to be concerned with fraud. Democrats in the Hawaii state bureaucracy could easily have faked birth records for Obama by now. As you state above, The only way to solve the Obama citizenship issue would be to find WITNESSES, who worked at the hospital in Kenya or Hawaii where Obama was born. Obama already released one document, which has been derided as fake to a website friendly to him. There is no certificate number (has been blacked out), and more importantly, There Is No Official Hawaii Seal. Curiously, Obama released another document to a so-called “factcheck” website. How do we know the second document wasn’t just a more elaborate fake than the first document? We don’t know.

Moreover, when Obama was six years old his mother remarried and moved with her husband to his country, Indonesia. Records indicate Obama was naturalized as an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does not allow dual nationality, so even had he been born in Hawaii, he would have lost his citizenship then.

The bottom line is that i find it curious that nothing has come out of the FBI, CIA, and State Department. Obviously they have a dossier on Obama so I am curious about the silence there. That certificate forgery is a huge billow of smoke so there should be fire somewhere, however, such silence is deafening.

December 7th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

Steve Rowland

Mata: Thank YOU.
Yesterday, I had a problem with the size of the file of this post, so I e-mailed it to Curt. The posted article (Thanks Curt!) is the original, however, this morning, I was assuming that the e-mail was lost in spam, so I revised it and cut down the excerpt, etc, and addded a few tidbits also, but here, in general is the revision:

This comment was made on the blog Craig referenced and I cut it down and inserted a few comments into my post:

There are now nearly 20 cases demanding that Obama produce his birth certificate. There was a forged one put on the internet by Obama. Obama has hired three law firms, and he has spent a half a million dollars to defend these cases. arguments. Millions of us Americans are aware of this stuation.

The simple question to Obama is why not simple produce the birth certificate. Don’t assume that that he showed the birth certificate to any official before he started running for the Presidency. Some of the people in this country have been so taken with him that they have ignored all the waring signs and blindly voted for him.

He could very easily end all this speculation by just simply producing his birth certificate. Instead he choses to spend so far $500,000 and get the Supreme Court involved. There are organizations in this country that will not let this rest. The lawsuits will keep coming until someone has to address it. Our Constitution means everything to us and us proud Americans will NOT let Obama get away with trouncing on our Constitution. He is a fraud and we will prove it.

So, yes, there are other suits as you note, I may have been guilty of dwelling too much on Berg’s.

GREAT ARTICLE! And I agree, let’s just this thing the hell and over with! Frankly, I hope that he IS a citizen according to the United States Constitution, if he is not, all hell is going to break loose, ans who wants that?

Frankly, I think the SCOTUS will refuse to review the case specifically due to its volatility and just try to keep it that way without making a ruling one way or the other. In my humble opinion though, that will be a huge mistake also, so it’s between a rock and a hard place.

December 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Steve Rowland

Mata: Also, forgot:

Since Obama (in my POV is Not an American citizen.)

We can do this: (not going to happen, but there’s Always Hope!)

Bush should resign in Two Weeks. Just before Christmas

Chaney becomes President! (this will REALLY, Really , Really piss off the Left)
Chaney makes Condoleeza Rice the Vice President.

Chaney resign two weeks later.

Condoleeza Rice becomes the FIRST Black President and the FIRST Woman President. Obama and Hillary are left in the dust!

December 7th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

MataHarley

Technically, Steve, Obama’s attorneys are not those that got SCOTUS involved. It was Berg, on appeal, who requested it go to the High Courts out of sequence because of expediency of the context. Obama’s attorney was successful in getting it dismissed in the lower courts. They have no reason to see this move on, and are probably aghast….

If SCOTUS upholds the dismissal for standing, then the one that has the shot at getting to the High Court is Keyes. The standing issue may take out the rest.

But, as Laib says, dismissal for standing not good enough to put conspiracies to rest. It is not addressing the validity of the issue, but the procedural flaws… rather like Ayers “guilty as sin, free as a bird”.

Frankly, the repercussions of Obama’s ineligibility may be a bit much for me to take. 53% of the nation won’t care about Constitutional requirements, and will be royally PO’d… to what degree one can only guess. And me? Can’t abide the thought of a President Biden. And you know what that means…. if ol’ slow Joe took a health turn for the worse, we’d have President Pelosi.

Nope. Let the Dems have their power. I do not anticipate them using it wisely, but good for us if they do. But if we don’t go with what they have put in place, we’ll be forever listening to the fairy tales of “what coulda been if only….”.

December 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Steve Rowland

Mata: I’ve got to learn to make my thoughts a little more clear in the future: I did not intend it to be my point that Obama, himself, has gotten his attorneys directly involved with SCOTUS, but his attorneys through obfuscation of the lower courts has now made it a SCOTUS issue. tkx

December 7th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

MataHarley

Hey, you were right on with the half mil price tag to dodge the issue…. LOL We all get the cyber tongue hiccups. Rest easy.

December 7th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Larry Weisenthal

Intelligence agencies must have a dossier on Obama ten meters thick. As to this business about “just produce the birth certificate,” well I dare say that there are huge numbers of people born in 1961 that can’t do that. I haven’t seen my own birth certificate in three decades and I wouldn’t know where to look. (I’ve gotten by on passports and my drivers license). I’d refer people who wanted to know to the city where I was born, which is what Obama did. There was an official birth certificate there. Was if forged? Is there a conspiracy going on? Were the Chinese gymnasts really 16 years old? Basically, the best evidence is the official birth certificate of the City of Honolulu in the State of Hawaii. It’s there and that’s that. Did anyone produce any “witnesses” to Ronald Reagan’s birth, or Bill Clinton’s, for that matter?

I predicted this before and I’ll predict it again: SCOTUS won’t touch this with a 10 foot pole. This is not going to be any 5-4 decision. Roberts and Alito will both not support these lawsuits. Maybe Thomas. Very doubtfully Scalia. After SCOTUS stopped the Florida recounts on a non-precedent setting basis on the incredibly flimsy grounds of lack of equal protection, because the same vote counting standards were not used in all counties — never mind the fact that the same voting standards were not used in all counties and the same vote counting standards are not used in all states — which ended the Bush/Gore standoff in favor of Bush, there is no way in Hades that SCOTUS will now intervene to again deny a Presidential election to a Democrat, let alone one who has inspired such fervently passionate support, both in the USA and abroad. SCOTUS stopped the recount in 2000 for the public good (I agree with that decision) and they won’t let the present lawsuits go through — also for the public good. Stay tuned and you’ll see that I’m right on this.

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

December 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

MataHarley

Correct, Larry. Per the WA Times yesterday, Souter rejected the petition, but Thomas took it up after his rejection.

The Supreme Court’s justices met in a private conference Friday morning to discuss the issue. At least four of the court’s nine justices must approve before the case is heard.

Justice Clarence Thomas picked up the petition to hear the lawsuit after it was denied by Justice David H. Souter. Justice Thomas referred it to the full court, which decided to distribute the case for the justices’ conference.

Mr. Obama demonstrated his citizenship during his campaign by circulating copies of his birth certificate, which showed he was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961. But unlike many of the lawsuits regarding Mr. Obama’s citizenship — which claim he really was born on foreign soil — Mr. Donofrio’s case concedes that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii but says he still held foreign citizenship at birth.

“Since Barack Obama’s father was a citizen of Kenya, and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama’s birth, then Senator Obama was a British citizen ‘at birth,’ just like the framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on U.S. soil, he still wouldn’t be eligible to be president.”

Kenya was British East Africa until it received its independence in 1963.

At least one of them recognizes the import of SCOTUS hearing a “private attorney general’s” case in this. For them to dismiss it as unimportant, and discardable for a non-related issue, is frightening. It would be the ultimate mockery of not only the Constitutional requirements for POTUS, but the justice system as entirely corrupt.

December 7th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

Craig

Bill Richardson revelation-Obama is an immigrant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5OUdj_YIpo

December 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Craig

Kenyan Ambassador admits Obama born in Kenya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14&feature=related

December 7th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

Larry Weisenthal

Craig, you are trying very hard. Here is the fatal fly in your ointment.

You are allegedly arguing factual issues, e.g. you are championing the point of view that it is a matter of fact that Obama was born in Kenya, based on the account of so-called eye witnesses.

However, the US Supreme Court does not decide factual issues. It decides legal issues. The Court would not consider evidence concerning the veracity of a birth certificate or of an eyewitness account. The Court would only decide something such as whether having a father who was a British subject would make Obama not a “natural born citizen,” under the Constitution. The fact that Obama might qualify as a British subject doesn’t have any impact whatsoever on his status as a natural born citizen. Therefore, there is no legal issue on which SCOTUS could disqualify Obama.

As an aside, with respect to the Kenyan ambassador “admitting” Obama was born in Kenya, that is a big nothing. The Kenyan ambassador was sandbagged by the talk show host that did the interview. It was the equivalent of a “push poll.” The talk show host talked to the ambassador as if it was an established fact that Obama was born in Kenya. He was even asked “do you plan to build a monument to mark his birthplace.” Now, it’s entirely plausible that the ambassador knew that Obama had family in Kenya and that his father was Kenyan and the ambassador didn’t want to sound stupid in not knowing that Obama was also born there, as presented as a statement of fact by the talk show host. So the ambassador, not really knowing but not wishing to come across as uninformed on such an important issue, simply went along with the talk show host and just agreed with what the talk show host had said.

As I predicted before, this “case” is going absolutely nowhere.

What I’d be very interested in hearing from you, Craig, is your take on what’s going on with Canadian politics, especially the attempted coup d’etat by the liberals on Stephen Harper’s minority government. Do you expect Harper to survive, when Parliment reconvenes?

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

December 7th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Cara

If I have to have a British subject as President, I’d rather have Tony Blair.

December 7th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

Craig

Larry W.,

Canadian’s politic is boring. Except for Stephen Harper who is a real conservative, all the other parties are leftists just like Obama. We have many idiot politicians like Obama here in Canada. So like I said, it is boring, only leftist parties.

Harper asked the Governor General Michaelle Jean to prorogue the government till the 26 of January and it was granted. Harper will come back on the 26 of January with his ” Discours du trône” (I don’t know the translation for that) and will produce his new budget since he has only been reelected 6 weaks ago. The 3 Obamas (chiefs of the other 3 Parties that are making the coalition) have already said that they will reject it no matter what’s in it. So Harper will return to G.G. Michaelle Jean and ask to dissolve the government and to go for new elections. He will then get a strong majority, since the ROC (Rest of Canada) are really mad at those three Obamas all issued from Québec. Stupid Québec of course is very happy, they are all ignorant that got fooled by THE ONE, so they admire the 3 other stupid politicians who are a certified true copy of Obama. C’est le bordel, quoi!

December 7th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

Craig

Larry,

I am sure that Obama was born in Kenya. They are building a monument there for him and they already go and celebrate at his birth’s place. Beside, Obama’s mother was refuse on the plane to get back to the USA because her pregnancy was to advanced. She was aloud on the plane only after Obama’s birth. Some people are trying to get this fact confirm. You would be surprise of all the people working on this case. I hope they succeed and that America will get rid of this illegal alien. No country merits to be rule by a fraud like him.

December 7th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

Craig

TRUTH always have a way of coming out. Leo Donofrio never quits and he won’t quit either on Obama’s case. Read this facinating article:

Historical breakthrough – Proof: Chester Arthur concealed he was a British subject at birth
By: Leo Denofrio, December 6, 2008
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/urgent-historical-breakthrough-proof-chester-arthur-concealed-he-was-a-british-subject-at-birth/

December 7th, 2008 at 11:04 pm

Hard Right

This may surprise some of you, but I think obama is a citizen and this will go nowhere.
Politics is war and you don’t interupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake. That would be why he is letting this drag out.

December 8th, 2008 at 6:22 am

Steve Rowland

Larry:
I was beginning to at least respect your opinions, but it appears that you make the same ho-hum rationalizations as Warpublican Review and others left of center. I’ve said before and I say again that the electorate voting for Obama had no real idea exactly whom they were voting for and nothing has occurred in the interim to change this view. Did You Know. Do you now?

This brings up a funny that was sent to me on e-mail:

The following is a funny and true story shared with me by KC Williams who teaches AP Government at Santa Fe High School .

In one of KC’s classes, they were discussing the qualifications to be president of the United States. It was pretty simple.

The candidate must be a natural born citizen of at least 35 years of age.

However, one girl in the class immediately started in on how unfair was the requirement to be a natural born citizen. In short, her opinion was this requirement prevented many capable individuals from becoming president.

KC and the class were just taking it in and letting her rant, but everyone’s jaw hit the floor when she wrapped up her argument by stating …

“What makes a natural born citizen any more qualified to lead this country than one born by c-section?”

And someday she’ ll vote!

I could care less if it matters to you if Obama was qualified under the US Constitution to even run for the POTUS. It matters to me, and it matters to a myriad of others. We have a case, and it deserves to be head: Clarify this once and for all.

Save the spinning and just stick to the facts. The main fact is that Obama has spent over half a million dollars to Fight having to provide evidence that he was qualified. The way it appears thus far is that he CANNOT (or won’t until compelled). Any other evidence be damned: Obama is hiding something.

December 8th, 2008 at 6:59 am

Warpublican Review

“One has to be concerned with fraud. Democrats in the Hawaii state bureaucracy could easily have faked birth records for Obama by now. ”

How can you make that assertion? Are YOU a state offical who’s faked birth records? Do you really believe this is something that’s EASILY done?

Prove it…

December 8th, 2008 at 7:45 am

Warpublican Review

“Save the spinning and just stick to the facts. The main fact is that Obama has spent over half a million dollars to Fight having to provide evidence that he was qualified. The way it appears thus far is that he CANNOT (or won’t until compelled). Any other evidence be damned: Obama is hiding something.”

So – OBAMA is HIDING something is a FACT – not a SPIN…

do you read your own posts?

December 8th, 2008 at 8:26 am

Hard Right

Since it’s in the spam filter.
This may surprise some of you, but I think obama is a citizen and this will go nowhere.
Politics is war and you don’t interupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake. That would be why he is letting this drag out.

December 8th, 2008 at 9:00 am

Steve Rowland

Warpublican Review:
The way any prosecutor looks at a suspect is that if he’s avoiding something, he has something to hide. We can say “By all appearances…..” if that sounds better to you?

December 8th, 2008 at 9:52 am

Steve Rowland

Hard Right:

I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere either, but not because the issue is settled. It will simple go out on a technicality.

December 8th, 2008 at 9:54 am

Steve Rowland

Warpublican Review:

That was not an assertion. I said they COULD have made changes by now, and that’s a fact.

December 8th, 2008 at 9:56 am

Warpublican Review

“Warpublican Review:
The way any prosecutor looks at a suspect is that if he’s avoiding something, he has something to hide. We can say “By all appearances…..” if that sounds better to you?”

If it helps you sleep at night. I was satisfied by the birth certificate on his website. Look, just because someone sues, that doesn’t make it right. As I posted, Bush was sued because he and Cheney both came from texas – which ran afoul of the constitution – or so said the plaintifs – until the case was booted from the court. Obama need not answer to you or berg or anyone other than the congress…

so see if you can get an impeachment…

December 8th, 2008 at 10:03 am

Steve Rowland

Warpublican Review:
Who said anything about an impeachment?
I sleep very well at night, thank you.
That’s true, just because someone sues does not make it right. Bush/Cheney aside, in this case, there appears to be compelling reasonable doubt to proceed.
Regards the SCOTUS, we will just have to see, but I think it will not be heard. Not because of facts but because of technicality.
Of course the birth certificate would be fine for you. Is there an official seal on the document. A number. Just to start.
But what the hell, is the big deal anyway, was Obama born a hermaphrodite?

December 8th, 2008 at 10:12 am

Steve Rowland

Warpublican Review:
Another thing about that ‘birth certificate’: That certificate looks like it just came fresh out of graphics. Back in 1961 ( was born in ‘53) I don’t ever recall seeing any graphics on birth certificates like this one, but I obviously am mistaken. In fact, I can hardly read my own certificate.
This thing looks nice and crisp to me. Am I wrong there?

December 8th, 2008 at 10:16 am

Warpublican Review

“Who said anything about an impeachment?”

but that’s who has the standing to clear this matter – the Congress. Amendment XX makes it clear that “If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.”

If Obama lied about his citizenship – and was elected with a bogus BC – that would be an impeachable offense. So go for it – I think it’s a fair shot – though i think it would fail…

December 8th, 2008 at 10:58 am

Warpublican Review

“This thing looks nice and crisp to me. Am I wrong there?”

No, you’re not wrong – but that doesn’t mean the BC is inauthentic – if you were to request your BC from the state, they would issue a new computer generated one. i once – before computers (shows how old I am) – needed a BC for a new SS card – I got a fresh new one from the city of ***** ******, NY – no problem…

December 8th, 2008 at 11:00 am

MataHarley

Warpublican said:

Obama need not answer to you or berg or anyone other than the congress…

Wrong. This is in the judicial system now. Obama needs to answer as appropriate to the courts. You may not care about the COLB status, and I can understand that. But you should care mightily if Obama believes he does not need to comply with the courts.

If Obama lied about his citizenship – and was elected with a bogus BC – that would be an impeachable offense. So go for it – I think it’s a fair shot – though i think it would fail…

Again, you are going down the wrong road. Of course neither party in Congress would impeach the President-elect willingly. However if Obama lied about his citizenship, and the courts confirm that, he is not qualified to be POTUS under Constitutional regulations, and appropriate measures need to be taken. Congress nor the nation cannot just ignore that reality.

December 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

Warpublican Review

“Wrong. This is in the judicial system now. Obama needs to answer as appropriate to the courts.”

of course – no one is denying THAT….

December 9th, 2008 at 5:10 am

Craig

It seems like Obama could not plead the 5th admendment to defend himself:

IN THE SHADOW OF NEMESIS

“… In the interest of expediting the process, the custodians of records in Hawaii would also be subpoenaed to testify and to produce all relevant documents subject to their control. To be sure, Obama himself might invoke a privilege against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment as the grounds for refusing to testify or to disgorge inculpatory papers. But custodians of public records in Hawaii or elsewhere throughout the United States have no such privilege. And no Hawaiian or other law of the States or the General Government purporting to make those records “confidential” can frustrate the Sixth Amendment.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin186.htm

December 9th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

Steve Rowland

Mikes Dumbmerica:

Of course it isn’t the original ‘vault’ certificate you moron. It also doesn’t seem to have a stamp, and the certificate number is blacked out.

“It’s a Hawaii-certified COLB.” Its a freaking registration and not even a legitimate one it appears, however, guess that’s how they do it in Hawaii.

December 10th, 2008 at 6:26 am

Steve Rowland

Mike’s Dumberica:
For some reason your response is not on the thread although it came in on my Blackberry, thus I will respond to it here since you know what you wrote.
I will do this once and your are free to have the last word.

“You get gently chided for a factual screw up and your immediate response is to call names. Nice!”

Just hold it! OK. First “get with the WINGNUT talking points, buddy”. My emphasis.

That aside, did you read the rest of the post and responses? “It’s a Hawaii-certified COLB.”
Certified?? Once again I point out that this is the ‘official certificate’ Obama’s legions posted on the internet after being given it by the Obama campaign. Maybe there is an ‘official’ one, notwithstanding, this is what we have. Show me the ‘certification.’ The ‘official’ seal at the top is not a certification. The blanked out certificate number also voids any certification. There is no seal. I already said this several times previously up the thread, so obviously my point was obvious.

You got ‘gently’ chided for missing the point.

December 10th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

GaffaUK

Out of interest – why does it matter if Obama’s father was a British subject or not? Aren’t there plenty of Americans born with American mothers and British fathers? Why even the Hawaiian flag has a Union Jack in the corner of it’s flag;)

March 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 am

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