REUTERS/Carlos Barria (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008 (USA)
Some reactions to the debate tonight from the blogosphere and the MSM (transcript to debate here). But first….Joe Biden’s outright lies during the debate:
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
And now onto the reactions.
After the wave of assalts on her , Sarah Palin shows the nation why John McCain picked her and why the center-right loves her. She has a great night. Joe Biden does well too, but this was all about Sarah Palin, and she delivered a strong, strong message of energy and change.
The one great line of the debate: “It is so obvious that I am a Washington outsider,” Palin says, “soemone not used to the way you guys operate” as she points out Joe Biden’s attempt to doubletalk his way to Obama’s position.
Any conservative who was white-knuckled going into this is relaxing by now. There were some points where she was a bit more platitudinous than one would ideally want, but overall–she’s cleaning up. Biden is sighing more as the night goes on, and I can see why.
My thinking is that it’s a tie or near-tie, which is very good news for Palin. Both played to their strengths. Biden was a bit less of a blowhard than I expected, but I’m pretty sure he got some basic facts wrong. His “I was taken out of context” excuse on the “no coal plants here in America” line is laughable. He had some classic Biden moments, confusing Articles I and II in the Constitution and saying America spent more in less than one month in Iraq than in seven years in Afghanistan” off by, oh, 2000%, says the Western Standard.
Sarah Palin, on the other hand… I was a Gloomy Gus heading into this. I continue to wonder how so many Americans were instantly triggered to a frothing rage by this woman’s debut on the national stage. But after some subpar television interviews, I braced for a rough debate.
Instead, she provided much crisper answers, much more professional. She didn’t seem overbriefed; in fact she was able to rattle off a level of policy detail that worked for the conversational style of her answers.
Did she pass the could-she-lead-in-a-time-of-crisis test? Let me put it this way. I could picture the woman on stage tonight leading in a crisis. I couldn’t picture the woman interviewed by Gibson and Couric doing that.
She’s a natural saleswoman. She certainly saved her prospects for national office in 2012, if she so chooses. She certainly, my guess is, reenergized the GOP base and independents, centrists, and undecided, if they’re honest with themselves, will conclude that they witnessed an impressive woman tonight. Many Democrats will continue to loathe her.
Sarah Palin just field dressed Joe Biden like a moose. She was awesome. She connected with the people. She had fun. She was relaxed. She was awesome.
Biden literally blew this debate — sighing heavily in the microphone. Rolling his eyes. Being condescending. Flagrantly lying about policies that Palin repeatedly called him on.
Ifill herself did wind up showing her bias. She rarely gave Palin the last word. By the end of the debate it was almost 3 to 1 with Biden getting the last word. She also tried to disrupt Palin’s relationship with evangelicals by framing gay marriage around Alaska, mischaracterizing it too. LIkewise with global warming.
The line of the night will be “Say it ain’t so, Joe.” Palin was willing to break with the GOP and show how Biden and Obama have not ever broken with the Democrats.
She was smiling, gregarious, and clearly enjoying the night.
First, I would like to see all the Sarah doubters and detractors in the Beltway/Manhattan corridor eat their words.
Eat them.
Sarah Palin is the real deal. Five weeks on the campaign trail, thrust onto the national stage, she rocked tonight’s debate.
She was warm, fresh, funny, confident, energetic, personable, relentless, and on message. She roasted Obama’s flip-flops on the surge and tea-with-dictators declarations, dinged Biden’s bash-Bush rhetoric, challenged the blame-America defeatism of the Left, and exuded the sunny optimism that energized the base in the first place.
McCain has not done many things right. But Sarah Palin proved tonight that the VP risk he took was worth it.
Markos Moulitos from the Daily KOS:
Sarah Palin won!
Palin was at her strongest debating Biden on foreign policy… Palin deftly reminded viewers, over and over, Biden had openly criticized Barack Obama’s positions on the war, funding and withdrawal throughout the Democratic primaries. “I watched those debates, so I know what that was about,” she grinned. She knowingly gave the media an open invitation to replay those old tapes against the contradictory statements he made this evening.
“Tonight, Governor Palin proved beyond any doubt that she is ready to lead as Vice President of the United States. She won this debate, putting Joe Biden on defense on energy, foreign policy, taxes and the definition of change. Governor Palin laid bare Barack Obama’s record of voting to raise taxes, opposing the surge in Iraq, and proposing to meet unconditionally with the leaders of state sponsors of terror. The differences between the Obama-Biden ticket and the McCain-Palin ticket could not have been clearer. The American people saw stark contrasts in style and worldview. They saw Joe Biden, a Washington insider and a 36-year Senator, and Governor Palin, a Washington outsider and a maverick reformer. Governor Palin was direct, forceful and a breath of fresh air.” –Jill Hazelbaker, McCain-Palin 2008 Communications Director
Both Biden and Palin did considerably better then McCain and Obama did during their debate. Biden kept most of the cocky foot in mouth disease missing, but, some of his heavy breathing, and his near meltdown at the end is a small worry. Palin started out OK, but then really picked it up, matching life and executive experience with direct talk to middle America. Joe kept going back to Bush, Bush, Bush. All in all, they both worked it, but, Sarah was on topic, on point, and really wacked Joe with a stick. I saw him move a few times like she pulled out a Birch switch to the hamstrings a few time!
I thought both debaters helped their candidates a bit tonight, and I will always like Joe Biden, but I will call Palin the winner, first because she had to prove she is not the caricature being developed by the media, and she did that, but also because of the stunning consensus of the Frank Luntz audience in St. Louis, who declared her the hands-down winner and expressed a real connection. When I saw that audience response to Palin I thought: here in a nutshell is why the other side has worked so vociferously to destroy her, so quickly. What the folks in St. Louis were talking about tonight (and they said they now thought she was “qualified” to be president is what Camille Paglia saw in Palin’s first, informal speech at her introduction. Sarah Palin unfiltered, is a force to be reckoned with.
I have been involved in and observed politics for a long time. Governor Palin is a truly unique national figure. She is down to earth, personable, and smart as hell. That’s right. She has been on the national scene for a little over a month, she has been campaigning everywhere, she has had to bone up on all kinds of national issues, and she has shown class throughout. Too often too many are persuaded by the mainstream media’s opinion and react to that. This should be another lesson in that regard. As for some of her populist views, she cannot openly campaign against the positions of her presidential running mate. She is the bright light in this campaign from my perspective.
Sarah Palin won this debate and puts the campaign in a great position to rail against the media. Whatever she did before this debate — prayed? – is what she should always fall back on. And my impression is what she does. And why she’s come so far so fast.
Sarah Palin is the breath of fresh air on the political scene so many hoped she is. And she’ll be honored to beat the guy who’s been in the Senate since she was in the second grade.
Poor old Joe looked defeated and tired, spewing his talking points in repetition while Governor Palin appealed to mainstream Americans.
No colossal gaffes from either side, but I was struck by the odd look on Biden’s face. When did he have plastic surgery? He looks very strange now.
I thought that Joe Biden and Sarah Palin were both excellent tonight. Biden hammered McCain relentlessly, which is the traditional role of the vice presidential candidate. Palin, forced by circumstances to prove her merit to an increasingly skeptical electorate, accomplished that mission and then some. Having done so, she is once again in a position to help the ticket by energizing the conservative base and appealing to at least a segment of the undecided vote.
From a technical standpoint, it was Biden who had the more detailed command of the facts (and the greater ability to fudge them). He was able not just to hammer McCain, but to do so at a level of specificity that Palin could not address. And, on occasion, Palin missed easy opportunities to defend her running mate. I got the sense that, while Palin was getting up to speed on the basic issues, Biden was being prepped for an all-out assault on McCain. Palin got in her share of his shots at Obama, and some of them were quite effective. But, as I suggested, she could not afford to be as single-minded as Biden because she had a greater need to sell herself. Nor, it seems, is it in her nature to be purely a hatchet-woman.
~~~In any event, Sarah Palin deserves tremendous credit. Three of the four candidates in this race have been debating off and on for a year and a half. All of them performed quite well in their latest round. Palin was entirely out of the loop until about a month ago. Yet her performance was mostly equal, and in some ways superior to, that of McCain, Obama, and Biden.
Ramesh Ponnuru again:
The big loser tonight was Tina Fey.
Palin wins, gets more great soundbites off, reassures Americans that she’s up to the job, and helps the ticket about as much as she could have during the debate. All in all, I was very happy with her performance.
Palin on style, general lifelikeness, failure to drone, ability to speak in simple declarative sentences. Shout out to her peeps was big. Biden might have had it on substance, though with the constant droning about percentages, intermingled with mumbling about amendments and double-reverse voting intricacies, it’s impossible to tell. Game effort to note that once upon a time, he was a real person. He gets points for the choke-up moment, however.
Considered take: Palin, darting around in a cute little coupe, handles all the foreign policy curves nicely and even negotiates that gay-marriage oil spill to get the checkered flag. Approximately one zillion American viewers who have been told for the past two weeks she’s a tongue-tied ignoramous are now wondering why they ever paid any attention to that MSM Palin and most other Americans love to hate. Biden’s Oldsmobile spun out at the starting line, never quite got that engine chugging on all eight cylinders, took his turns a little wide but managed to avoid the rail. No crash, but then again, turns out she didn’t need him to.
I thought Palin did well, even though she missed some big opportunities. For instance, when Biden blamed the mortgage meltdown on deregulation, Palin mouthed some platitudes about greed and predatory lenders. She should have responded that no financial players needed stronger regulation more than government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and that the Democrats consistently opposed any limitations on Fannie and Freddie’s activities. She did point out that McCain called for greater oversight of the GSEs in 2005, but I would have liked to have seen her convey in stronger terms the extent to which the GSEs caused this crisis, and how the Democrats bear a lot of responsibility for that.
Her folksiness was cloying at times, but no more so than Biden’s incessant references to his kitchen table and how much time he spends hanging out at Home Depot. And she dominated Biden on Iraq, because — like Hillary in those last few Obama-Clinton debates — he couldn’t come up with a convincing way to square his early support for the war with his later opposition to it. He found it even more difficult to square his shifting positions with Obama’s consistent opposition.
She’s the real deal. I admit: the bit about predatory lenders infuriated me, and I am concerned about her seeming adoption of Condi foreign policy. But both those positions are McCain’s positions — it’d be impossible for her to criticize them if she believed they should be criticized … I just wish she didn’t seem so enthusiastic about them.
All that said, though, she OWNED the last half of the debate, and when she — as a representative of normal people outside Washington — laughed at Biden for being for the war then being against the war, I thought she seemed in such total command she was wishing they could start the debate all over again. (And how moronic of Biden to counter that McCain voted against funding for the troops — does anyone on the planet earth outside the procedure-mongering Lilliputians on the Hill actually think McCain didn’t want the troops funded?)
Palin’s a star. Her instincts are practical and conservative, so I wish she weren’t so bound to McCain. (McCain should wish that too — that’s what’s made her so popular and given him a shot.) Watching her is fun. It’s like watching a rookie who’s taken the league by storm and is hitting .290, and you just know that in two years, she’ll be hitting .340 … while Biden is hitting .210 and belongs back in Double A.
For a typical American who had been convinced by the Partisan Press that Sarah Palin is an illiterate redneck who didn’t know Afghanistan from Alabama, she won this debate. She debated a geezer from the Washington establishment to a standstill and forced him into several erroneous statements (I would say “false,” but Sen. Biden talks so much without knowing what he’s talking about, he could be clueless rather than malicious).
Biden did vote for a war resolution. McCain did not vote, as Biden claimed, for the Obama tax hike. And Obama did absolutely nothing about the subprime mess at Fannie Mae except take record amounts of their money.
Sarah Palin wasn’t brilliant. She wasn’t able to adlib like Sen. Biden could to score additional points. She let quite a bit of Biden nonsense go unchallenged.
But six weeks into the race, she went toe-to-toe with a guy who’s run for president twice, and she held her own and even pushed him around a few times.
For the average voter, content was a wash which means this ended up as a personality contest. Which means she wins.
And that means John McCain goes into the next debate on a level playing field. She didn’t leave him in a hole.
This was an unbelievable win for Sarah Palin. In fact, I think it reveals a level of skill in communication that I really haven’t seen since Ronald Reagan. She is a superstar.
She killed. She had him at “Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?” She was the star. He was the second male lead, the good-natured best friend of the leading man.
~~~ Sarah Palin saved John McCain again Thursday night. She is the political equivalent of cardiac paddles: Clear! Zap! We’ve got a beat! She will re-electrify the base. More than that, an hour and a half of talking to America will take her to a new level of stardom. Watch her crowds this weekend. She’s about to get jumpers, the old political name for people who are so excited to see you they start to jump.
On Thursday night, Palin took her inexperience and made a mansion out of it. From her first “Nice to meet you. May I call you Joe?” she made it abundantly, unstoppably and relentlessly clear that she was not of Washington, did not admire Washington and knew little about Washington. She ran not only against Washington, but the whole East Coast, just to be safe…
More to come…
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Talk radio should be in the cleanup box for tomorrow, pointing out all of slo Joes lies with sound bites. Going to be rough for old lying Joe.
Great..now my wife is calling me Joe Six Pack. Can we please stop dragging conservatism thru the mud.
That settles it for me…Chuck Baldwin ’08!!!!!!
Funny how many of the media hacks have praised Biden for being “sober”
Great debate! Sarah seemed very comfortable as if she would have done that all her life. She is a natural!
Biden was at is best in LYING, like all Dems do. Couldn’t believe how much he lied in the face of all Americans. Hope he won’t get away with it.
Of course I would have like Sarah to be more a Barracuda and a Pit-bull, but then again… she could have being perceived as an aggressive woman. I really think she did fine… very proud of her.
I loved Sarah Palin, finally she was able to reach the American people unedited , I think it is most important to expose again and again the misrepresentations put forward by Biden.
Obama seems to me that he is an expert in saying one thing and later saying that he did not said that.
Also Mc Cain has to show the radical left idiology of Obama.
Wow! They were really very civilized to each other.
I got the feeling that the whole debate was:
I agree with you.
No, I agree with you more
My position is more like yours than yours is.
Don’t be silly, I believe exactly the same exact thing that you do.
You do not! I do!
If she and John are going to make a difference they are going to have to get into the details to show what the differences are. I don’t know that it’s enough to act presidential.
There seems to be a whole group of people who admire their candidate standing there making faces while the “other guy” is talking. Oblahblah did it, and Biden did it too.
There was even an incident of Biden sticking his finger in his mouth, the camera blessedly switching away.
I wish Drudge would post this list of lies of by Joe “say it ain’t so” Biden. I KNOW the MSM won’t. Sarah is a gem. I think I’m in love. I really like the line about Washington needing some Wasilla Main Street logic. Priceless.
Shock and Awe: SarahCuda ROCKED the House!!!
Why do I get the feeling that the American public would rather vote a Palin/Biden or Biden/Palin ticket???
You mean Palin/McCain?
LOL Mata—Get ’em all out and give us a conservative finally. It’s been waaaay too long!
Let’s recap a little policy stuff here. McCain/Palin vs Obama/Biden on:
Gay Marriage: no difference
Same Sex Couples’ rights: no difference
Making abortion illegal: no difference
(Biden, Palin, and McCain say its wrong, immoral, but not the state’s place to make illegal, and Obama thinks babies can be mistakes not life. Still, net effect is no difference)
Iran: no real difference
(Both campaigns see it as “unacceptable” for Iran to have nukes, and while Obama gaffed once and said he’d meet Ahmadinejad w/out preconditions, he’s tried to step away from that since. Both campaigns are willing to have talks, but not w/out preconditions; per the latest Obama position. Oh, and both campaigns willing to use force.)
Pakistan: no real difference
(Obama admitted that his policy is the Bush policy in interview w Logan, BUT tonight we did hear that Obama plans to cut/slow foreign aid as a carrot which makes his policy completely like Bush’s. McCain/Palin as well support getting UBL, and more forces for Afghanistan as well as other nation-building there, but no one’s gonna really invade Pakistan.)
Iraq: no real difference
(Obama says withdrawal in 16 months. McCain says probably 20 which is the current Bush negotiation w Iraqis. Both say they’ll listen to the generals, and neither can afford to leave Iraq in chaos ’cause then they’d have to clean up the mess and invade a 3rd time)
Economy:
HERE is the difference….
McCain wants to increase tax cuts, increase budget cuts, and increase govt revenue by encouraging business.
Obama wants to tax business leaders and owners and investors who in turn will not be able to increase business, buy more for their businesses, hire more, and pay more, but Obama plans to give every American everything under the sun in exchange for stifling economic growth by taxing those business leaders, owners, investors, and businesses more.
Poor Joe. Gotta be hard to make a point of difference when there isn’t much.
btw, anyone notice that he gave his Presidential campaign stump speech at one point?
Sarah showed that Joe’s 35 years mean nothing … And it was delicious to watch.
Nope, Mike… I mean that the public was probably more impressed with both Palin and Biden far more than the two POTUS offerings last week.
And I think .. in some ways… Richard gets it. Given all the choices, I’d take Palin over them all… raw, fresh and untried on the int’l scene and all. But even she is shy of the “conservative” I’d like.
But since the nation is moving left… including the conservatives… Palin might be the face of the “new conservative” movement.
I wasn’t impressed by Biden, AT ALL. But this was a much better debate. Probably because I KNEW we were winning it.
And as for any complaints Palin didn’t cover X,Y or Z sufficiently, it’s impossible to arm chair quarterback these things. There is just too much to say and not enough time to say it in. If you heard Charles Krauthammer’s analysis he agreed that Palin wasn’t as specific on some things as Biden but it didn’t matter.
No one really cares about the wonkish inside the beltway B.S. that Biden was pushing. Palin spoke directly to the American people in a voice they can understand and for that expect a bump up in the polls.
The Frank Luntz focus group (with the wired dials) was overwhelming in their conclusion that Palin won and a black woman in the crowd raised her hand to indicate that she had decided now to vote for McCain-Palin.
Palin restored the early enthusiasm that so many of us felt when she was nominated and our doubts from the past two weeks were whisked away.
GOOOO SARAH!
Biden Lies To Palin In Debate
If the Lame Stream Media would publish Slow Joe’s 14 outright lies (include Hussein’s over 150 verified lies) and Slow Joe’s foreign policy gaffe the Hussein Biden ticket would be no more. I”m honest, I don’t know one person who will vote for Hussein. Americans can tolerate a lot of things but a consistant liar is not one of them.
Palin rocked. The main street media is taking “Meds” after tonight.
She is going to end up being the first Woman President of this Great County. Sorry HC.
“God Bless America” and those of us who Love America and Freedom from correption.
BTW… after all the ta dooo over Gwen Ifill… no comments?
Maybe the guys at Powerline can stop talking trash about Sarah now…
I just can’t see Palin in a position of national leadership because she simply does not have the knowledge base on national and International issues. I also was not impressed with her position on energy. I think it’s nonsensical to prioritize drilling for oil when the US has only 3 percent of the world’s oil reserves and consumes approximately 25 percent of the world’s oil. Clearly, drilling is not the way “forward” in the 21st century. Honestly, her performance on the whole was presentable enough. This being said, her folksy manner and colloquialisms don’t resonate with me. This idea that you have to sound like an average guy (or gal) to connect with voters strikes me as absurd.
Taking the MOE’s into account there is still a good indicator here that Biden won; that will be borne out in the next few days, too.
I’m catching up on some of the debate right now…
I was on the phone a moment ago with a friend who is a conservative, single mom- far too busy to follow politics very closely; I think it’s the first time she’s ever heard of Senator Joe Biden. She and her daughter watched together, and what struck both of them is the very notion Mata brings up. My friend said she came away liking Biden. Is this the reaction of your average American voter, casual on politics?
She liked that they were so cordial with each other, something that she didn’t get from the McCain-Obama debate, where the atmosphere was tense.
Is it just me, or is Doug poll-obsessed?
How did those 2004 exit polls work out for you, Doug?
Nina, you astroturfing little snot-lick,
I want you to go back to David Axelrod and tell him it’s not working.
Gwen Ifill didn’t even ASK questions on Energy. Palin had to force energy answers onto her, and yes…we need to drill. We have more than 3% of the world’s oil reserves.
Nina, please take your schtick, and shove it somewhere unpleasant.
Governor Palin played to the camera and spoke to the people, quite comfortable in her own skin and abilities while Joe appeared tired, wooden, rehearsed, occasionally condescending and sometimes out of his element.
Can you say “Bozniaks’?
The Barracuda won on points ( “Say it ain’t so, Joe!”) and sent Delaware’s Oldest off on a few erroneous rambles that will make excellent commercials in the next few weeks.
Game. Set. Match… Palin!
Jack.
Biden talked ABOUT the middle class, not TO the middle class… Sarah did… Sarah IS the middle class.
Here are a few things that I’ve liked and remembered Sarah saying… maybe not exact words, but something like it:
– “You did it again Joe. You keep talking about change and future, but all you do is point fingers back at the past!
– “I think I should bring a bit of “Wasilla-Mainstreet” to DC.
-” I have children in public schools.”
(No other candidate can say that, now can they?)
– “I have always been proud of my country.”
(In contrast with Michelle Obama saying it is the first time she is proud of her country)
– “WE” will never tolerate that again.”
– “Your plan is a White Flag of Surrender”.
– And many more…
The sexism attacks on Sarah continued by some of the pundits afterwards. Why can’t these fools focus on her brains?
The sexism is doubly amazing, when you consider that Biden was the one crying to garner sympathy.
There’s no depth to which these people won’t sink to gain power. None at all.
Now that they have been proved wrong, can nro please get rid of Parker? And Lopez should apologize for protecting and sympathizing with Parker.
Nice catch about the Biden tears Willmoore Kendall, love your blog, added it to my favorites.
Buzzing through the articles on Lucianne, it appears that quite a bit of mediaville, except WaPo’s Milbanks, gives her points. Milbanks doesn’t care for folksy, so I guess he wouldn’t be pleased with most living across America either.
Biden was frustrating to watch knowing that he was stretching the truth and/or misrepresenting it, should we say little white lies or bold face lies, ??? Guess he thinks that’s what he has to do.
A commentor, “epiphany” at NQ did a google search after Biden used the name “Joey Stanko” during the debate. Perhaps we can now add the “Joey Stanko” story to his misrepresentation of truth. Doggonit Joe, there ya go again!
“Joey Stanko” aka Joseph Stanko, Jr. is a LOBBYIST, in Washington working for Hunton & Williams!
His profile available here:
http://www.hunton.com/bios/bio.aspx?id=16009
states the following:
“Practice focuses on issue advocacy before Congress, White House and other Executive Branch officials in the areas of global climate change, renewable and bio-fuels, the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws, energy policy and Homeland Security. Also provides strategic planning for corporations developing environmental mission statements or undertaking long-term business planning.”
So the question now becomes… Did Biden have an astounding coincidence happen where the name of the “average American” he spoke to at the pump just happened to have the same name as a Washington Lobbyist pushing these exact issues? Or, did Biden, in his attempt to one-up Palin and her anecdotal stories about people she has spoken to on the campaign trail simply make something up?
I truly believe there are no coincidences, and what would be the statistical chances that Joe would happen to run into “some guy” at a gas pump, speak about energy issues, and what are the chances that that “average American” would share the SAME NAME as a man who Biden is undoubtedly familiar with through his lobbying activities in Washington. Again, there are no coincidences, and I believe the statistical chances are FIRMLY on my side when I say — Nice try Joe, but you’ve been BUSTED!
Who is Joey Stanko – Biden’s “Average American” Gas-Pump Buddy?
Either you people were watching a different debate, or were all wearing magical partisan sunglasses and earplugs.
Biden was a slimy liberal, but smooth at it. Palin sounds like a moron who can barely string together two talking points, which were put in her head by smart people working for the McCain campaign.
Of all the Republican governors, one of them has to be the stupidest of the group, and Palin is that person. McCain had the option to pick brilliantly intelligent governor Romney, but instead he went with stupid.
We’re all watching different debates…
Half Sigma: I would have said you were right if the focus group of undecided voters on Fox had not totally validated my opinion. I posted the video to that group in the video highlights thread above.
I doubt there are too many average Joes out there who watched Joe Biden and thought he was anything but another Washington politician and not worth a damn.
Wow. Are you people kidding me? Half the time Palin wasn’t even answering the questions she was asked to answer. She kept talking in circles and going back to Energy, her comfort zone.
Biden at least answered what he was asked and didn’t shy away from answering questions. Every time they were both asked to give an example of something they might need to change or a promise they might not be able to keep, Biden answered honestly. Palin on the other the hand always answered with the same “I don’t make any mistakes” answer. Yeah right. Spoken like a true politician. She will lie her way into office.
If you like someone that ignores questions and talks in circles, Palin won the debate. Get real folks.
Apparently Anonymous didn’t read the thread topic. What good are Biden’s answers if they are lies? Note the 14 issues above that have already been fact-checked, he lied.
Obama supporters don’t believe Palin did well…. well what a surprise. I’m shocked… shocked, I say! LOL
~~~
Anon #36, Biden answered “honestly”… only if you haven’t got a clue on what has really come down in the Senate on CRA and securitization bills. That Biden could attempt to give credit to Obama complaining about subprime loans when he and his buds, ACORN, were prime recipients of those risky loans, is the height of chutzpah.
…or honest if you ignore the fact that in the summer of 2006, Afghanistan had made enough progress to turn it over to complete control of NATO. You know, that int’l community the liberal/progressive insist are in charge of everything? Of course, when the spiral down happened, the US, not NATO and their wishy washy rules of engagement, got blamed.
NATO calls for more allied troops from the allies in fall 2006. The allies say “no”, or dodge the call. McCain said he’d be willing to add more troops in the area, but only as a last resort. Allies should have their feet held to the fire in order to not have a huge US footprint and make an int’l effort seem like a US effort.
Did Obama get that? Noooo… Mr. Let’s Escalate in Afghanistan didn’t consider the appearance of too large a US footprint, didn’t want to force the hand of the allies, and just volunteer up our guys. For a man who worries about “occupying” the Middle East, he’s an occupier of convenience… preferring to take an int’l mission, and morph it into a US heavy mission.
Then, of course, there’s that voting against funding the troops interchange…. when Biden says both McCain and Obama voted against the funds. Biden said McCain voted against it because it had a timeline (true).
But now think about it… if you can. If the bill funded the troops, *and* had a timeline – both of which Obama wanted – why did Obama vote against it?
Answer…
1: either Biden is talking about two different bill versions and not telling the audience that (most likely).
2: Or Obama was trying to force an end to the war by de’funding… despite having a timeline. (not impossible)
So just how “honest” was Honest Joe? These little ditties are only scratching the surface. He rattled off a lot of stats. Too bad most of them were totally disconnected of having facts outweighs just how true those statements were.
In other words, ol slow Joe talks a good game…
But as Palin pointed out, the fact checkers are going to be very busy today….
In fact, I thought Palin was very kind in not calling ol’ Joe out in public on his fuzzy facts, and embarrassing his arse.
It’s also too bad that the only way energy could get into the debate – an important subject for the US voter – was by Palin repeatedly bringing it up. Obviously, it wasn’t on Ifill’s questions agenda. Now why is that, I wonder??
Lie number 15, or if you consider his “Joey Stanko” comment a lie, this would be 16. Kind of silly that he does this, but it seems he just can’t help himself:
http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/secondhelpings/2008/10/joe-gives-delaware-shout-outs.html
Ha!
As the sinking poll numbers and nod to reality with the Michigan pullout, it’s over.
Oh, she’s all cute and whatnot, and certainly can mimic real discourse well, kind of like Reagan did, but she’s the huge weight, dragging the ticket to the bottom of the deep, deep sea.
Maybe next time?
Amazing you pushed McCain to pick her. Fundie Lieberman looks good now, doesn’t he?
Good luck!
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“…. but she’s the huge weight, dragging the ticket to the bottom of the deep, deep sea.” (So call)
You got to be kidding? She is the reason why McCain will be elected on november 4th.
SO we will CALL on you that day to remind you of your clumsy comment (#40)… lol
$10 says you’re wrong.
If I’M wrong, I’ll send $10 to the charity of your choice.
When YOU’RE
$10 says you’re wrong.
If I’M wrong, I’ll send $10 to the charity of your choice.
When YOU’RE wrong, you’ll send $10 to my charity.
Deal?
You got to be kidding again Socal. I am so sure McCain will win, that if I bet it will be for 10,000$ minimum.
BOLDLY DONE, SIR!!
Shall we say, Senor Craig, November 5, 10am, Pacific Time for our Rendezvous Of Destiny?
Do you choose to disclose your charity at this time, sir?
I remain,
Faithfully yours,
Herr Socal
He hasn’t yet decided to bet. Reading comp not your thing?
Meeting with you? You got be kidding again, SoCal. I have none whatsoever intention of ever meeting you or betting with you. As far as I am concerned, Obama’s fans have no credibility at all. You would never respect the deal… that I know for sure. You should keep your money and save it to go on a trip (maybe Cuba) to morn the defeat of Obamarafat.
Your site appears to have been Highjacked and I am receiving unwanted emails being sent from your site.
So, your true colors are now in evidence!
No problem: your puerile attempts a both discourse and humor are, sadly, on par with your Stepford VP wanna-be.
lotsa luck!
.
Can’t believe the Palin love in, it’s just ridiculous and sad. Not a single Conservative with the balls to stand up to this folksy nonsense.
Vice President material she is not. I want a leader, not a hockey mom who shoots Moose for kicks (hockey is for Canadians and Russians – or is that her foreign policy experience)
Linda Lingle would have been a far better choice to partner McCain. Re-elected as Governor in a strongly Democratic state, someone who would appeal to Independents who (God forbid) may be intelligent.
Dumb dumb dumb…
This election is lost and if it isn’t then God help America, because if she wields the power she wants the last 8 years will come across as some form of inspired Reagen era presidency.
I don’t expect much support on this – which in itself is a shame.
I like McCain, but can’t stand Palin.
DJF