The Obama Tax Plan

He has actually been quite open about his tax system changes if you chose to look. Hope and change ain’t cheap, especially if you let a Marxist set the price. You can also imagine what his capital gain/dividend tax increases, which are even more draconian, will do to the stock market. Hopefully enough high-income professionals will realize that this is not all fun and games, but it will hit them like a ton of bricks. They can’t all be like Warren Buffett who after a lifetime of structuring everything around paying low taxes complains he is taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. But Obama is a clever and dangerous character, he structured his definition of “rich” so that enough of the “poor” can salivate at the thought of stealing from them and vote Obama in.

And, when the economy tanks, Obama will blame us … just like Carter did.

Yeah $164,000 is a high starting point, especially when 75% of the households in the U.S. do not make $57,343 a year.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P134742.asp?GT1=7392

$164,000 puts the person in the top 1% of households and here just one person is doing it.

One of my pet peaves is when economic writers pick numbers way above the average nation. For instance it’s couples making $130,000 a year (top 5% of households) and not $50,000 a year which is more realistic.

New Hampshire’s budget deficit is just over 18% of the budget based on the last 9 months. In 2003 it was just over 20% and in 2004 it was 37.8% of the budget. So while the good times were rolling, New Hampshire’s budget deficit was getting worse. I don’t know what New Hampshire would have done with a 50% cut (to pay back past debt). Maybe they would have had a road infrastructure program and a state justice system and then had the cities pay for the schools, firemen and police officers without any outside help. People in the end would pay more taxes, just to the cities and not to the state. There also wouldn’t be any parks, state universities or colleges (unless those schools greatly raised their fees), state hospitals etc.

“Or the way Republicans blamed Bill Clinton for everything that has gone wrong under George W. Bush?” Actually I don’t think it’s just Bill Clinton that is to blame, it’s the entire American leftist movement. People who scream about Americans abandoned in New Orleans when it was one of their own who neglected to get drivers for the buses to drive them to safety. People who scream when America has a President who refuses to surrender to the mob who want America defeated.
People who scream that their supporters are too dumb to get a Photo ID to prove who they are, so the US should allow everyone in the world to vote in our elections, so that they can achieve their goal of defeating America.

What the ‘free market’ proponents fail to realize is that when the lower and middle classes are doing better, with through unions, lower taxes, higher minimum wages, or any other measures, they have money to purchase what the businesses are producing.
Also, while higher cap gains taxes do increase taxes, that is a short run phenomenon. When cap gains taxes are lowered, there is a selling frenzy, which levels off after all the pend up demand to sell has been reached, then things level off again and revenues drop.

Raising taxes is NEVER a good solution to anything.

Quite the contrary.

Get the gov’t out of the pockets of business and let them run their businesses and make money. More revenue means more growth and more growth means more jobs. More growth and additional jobs mean more taxes for the gov’t.

On the other hand if you up wages, mandate benefits, and increase taxes you will retard growth, decrease employment and tax revenues.

The usefulness of gov’t is very, very debatable.

Those who want a tit to rely on will find it more useful than those of us who don’t want to rely on anyone other than ourselves and our on independence and ingenuity.

Those who relied on the gov’t during Katrina didn’t fare nearly as well as those who used self-reliance, self-determination, and ingenuity to prevent themselves from being a statistic.

And we are not in doo-doo ourselves?
- The dollar is falling like a rock, deregulation has led to profiteering and Enron-like speculation and market manipulation in oil,
- outsourcing jobs, open borders and lack of enforcement against hiring of illegal workers that allow foreign workers to come in and take more of the jobs that are left,
-BILLIONS unaccounted for in Iraq, private contractors that do jobs that our servicemen used to do, but for hundreds of thousands more and without having to follow rules, chasing a lie in Iraq while the real threat is in Afghanistan and Pakistan
- A president who says “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

“I am truly not that concerned about him.”
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Who is government, but us, grouping together for our own best interest? Sure, if it goes overboard it becomes communism (on the left) or fascism (on the right.)

In fascism, in the direction we are swinging right now, the monied hold all the power, the middle class disappears, and politicians are bought out so that the government is no longer we the people, but them.

So of course that government is feared. We need to reinstate government by, for and of the people.

Actually I don’t know what you are referring to about the rest of the quotes. As I remember, they were from an interview, please enlighten me as to what was in the rest.

If actions speak louder than words however, pulling the resources out of Afghanistan, and putting them into Iraq, was tantamount to giving up, partially at least, on Bin Laden.

Obama is proposing raising taxes on people making over 250K/year. In many parts of the country that’s not even close to rich, but in the industrial swing states it sounds rich to the voters he’s got to collar, so let’s let that go for now.

He’s also proposing raising the capital gains tax. Sounds good to that same constituency but it’s a big mistake. Here’s what happens:

1. Capital gains tax rate rises.

2. A wave of selling prior to and in anticipation of the tax increase occurs, and new investment slows down markedly.

3. The value of 501K’s and IRA’s drop.

4. Upon seeing their monthly statements, working class voters turn on Barack, while cutting down even more on discretionary spending.

5. The spending cutbacks perpetuate the recession that Bush and McCain swear we’re not in. What a pair of Bozos.

What O should do is what he did towards the end of the primaries when he called out Hillary and McCain on their cynical calls for a gas tax cut, which would have done nothing to ease the pain but might have fooled some of the people some of the time. He’s got to explain, in clear terms, the damage that a higher cap gains tax would do, even though, at first glance, it appears to be a gesture to the working men/women of the country. And he’s got to be big enough to reverse himself, as he’s already come out in favor of raising the cap gains bite.

O’s got to be the go to guy for the truth. If he ends up pandering, he loses some of the luster he’s earned.

End of story.

http://www.loosekannon.com

LooseKannon noted:
A wave of selling prior to and in anticipation of the tax increase occurs, and new investment slows down markedly.

I think this may be true in the short run, but in the long run people have to do business. Did the economy grind to a halt when cap gains were higher? No. When cap gains are lowered, there is a bubble of selling that gives a boost to the economy, but after a while it is business as usual again.

People with money have to put it somewhere. A good fiscal plan with appropriate regulation encourages investment in ways and areas that are beneficial to a nation, and discourages harmful investment.

That is precisely what is NOT happening right now. The real estate bubble bursts, and the next bubble is oil. With the commodity oversight greatly reduced in 93 and 2000, pushed through respectively by Wendy Gramm (chairwoman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, she pushed through a key regulatory exemption on Jan. 14, 1993) and her husband Sen. Phil Gramm, (co-sponsor of the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which shielded Enron’s and others’ trading activities from regulators,) we have the present unregulated speculation on oil, the so-called “Enron loophole”

Where is McCain on this? Well ask his chief economic adviser and campaign chairman, who is that…? oh yea, Phil Gramm! (For the record, McCain does say he is for closing the loophole, but his choice of Gramm for his economic advice lets us know where his heart is.)

Combined with the devaluation of the dollar, partially, at least, a result of over 20 years of ‘free trade’, that has decimated our manufacturing economy, we have the oil prices we see today.

We now are in a deregulated situation where the ‘free market’ rules. If you like it, vote for McCain, if you don’t, Obama. It’s that simple.

Bill,
that is funny. You should move to canada. Sounds like you would fit in. Its the person robbing your car that thinks they deserve what you worked so hard for. Bill, you sound like a government handout that thinks you should continue your 30 year streak of living in your parents basement. Ah, and the whole, ‘dem der mexicans toook our jobs’. Priceless. Obviously you don’t understand much about the way the ‘real’ world works. Nice rhetoric. You and your idiot friends should continue to agree with each other. At least I can take sanctuary in the fact you will be too stoned to vote when the day comes.

Bill:

Did you ever try to meet a payroll every week? When you do, then you can bitch and moan.
Do you have a house that is not mortgaged and hope to use to proceeds from that house for your retirement? Well, the capital gains tax, Nobama proposes will wipe out a lot of the profit.
You don’t have a clue.

Liam and Bill - and anyone else who believes in McCain/Bush economics -
I am calling you out!

So, I think that you (and I, and the vast majority of Americans in addition to the country itself), will be better off under an Obama economic plan, and you think that the Bush/McCain plan is best.

Are you willing to put your mouth where your money is and look at the two economic plans, piece by piece, fact by fact, including health care plans, head to head, in this public forum?

I think that anyone who supports McCain is afraid to hold a real debate on the economic issues. You are forgiven, however, because your candidate himself is afraid to talk real issues.

I look forward to hear from you.

Is someone who make more money paying a higher tax percentage fair? Hell no.
The fact is that even if tax were a flat rate let’s say 10% with a $5000 deductible, someone making 50000 would pay $4500, while someone making $200000 would pay $19,500. So therefore a person earning more already pays more.

Not only that but take social security. Someone earning over $100k pays the full whack, even though they are less likely to take advantage of social security. I wouldn’t mind, but under democrats social security ends up being used to pay for programs to help lazy people, drug addicts etc.

But forget the above example, the fact is that a higher earner already pays a higher percentage. The US’s tax system is staggered - even some local taxes are staggered, and usually in the areas high earners live.

My mother was a school janitor and my father an engine driver. Blue collar workers. Hard workers. I was the first in my family to go to college and get a degree. My parents were proud that I went to college at 25 and that I can now work to make more money for my family. Now, jealous, socialist, lazy are expecting me to pay more.

But get this, even worse is the fact that the Hollywood elite support this. But then they are super-earners. They don’t make $160k, $200k, or even $500k. These guys make tens of millions on each production. They look at their earnings and say, we can afford it and group themselves in with people that make $200k. They are crazy.

For me to make that anywhere near money I have to live in an expensive location. I may work 60+ hours per week, in a stressful environment. I don’t have a mobile home set up on site, with an army of assistance to pamper me at every whim just before I go on set to play a part. I HAVE TO WORK HARD. And for me giving up a few hours to promote a charity and claiming that is “giving” is an insult - kind of like stepping up to sing before Barak Obama and his cronies (while changing the words of a song to be political) and writing it off as a charitable donation (hey Barbara).

I am sick of people who make less being jealous of me and expecting me to pay more when they know absolutely nothing of my circumstances, and I’m more angry about lazy actors who live in the super rich category telling me to pay more taxes because they THINK I live like they do.

Wake up America. Socialism doesn’t work. People need to get off their backsides, work hard, educate themselves (and not complain you have to work at the same time as college) and improve their own lives. Don’t expect people who’ve already done that to pay for you.

I hope Barak fails, but my guess is that saying that makes me racist - which is another rant.

And by the way - in a news release today:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel said his party’s vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, lacks foreign policy experience and called it a “stretch” to say she’s qualified to be president.

“She doesn’t have any foreign policy credentials,” Hagel said in an interview published Thursday by the Omaha World-Herald. “You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don’t know what you can say. You can’t say anything.”

Could Palin lead the country if GOP presidential nominee John McCain could not?

“I think it’s a stretch to, in any way, to say that she’s got the experience to be president of the United States,” Hagel said.

McCain and other Republicans have defended Palin’s qualifications, citing Alaska’s proximity to Russia. Palin told ABC News, “They’re our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.”

Hagel took issue with that argument. “I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, ‘I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia,’” he said. “That kind of thing is insulting to the American people.”

I RATHER VOTE FOR MCCAIN AND PALIN REAL PEOPLE ………….THAN TO VOTE FOR A CORRUPT LIKE OBAMA …OBAMA IS A CLOWN CNN AND MSNBC SAME THING THERE CLOWN!

Okay I can’t just let all these Obama campaign talking points continue unchecked. How about the actual facts instead of rhetoric?
Yes we’ve heard the Obama promises during the debate, a 95% tax cut for all Americans. According to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. Obama’s rant is false.
(See: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html)
By the way, the elderly, who are in worst financial shape than any other group, would get no tax break and in fact most would be taxed even harder under the Obama plan because he wants to tax medicare. Most elderly don’t get child deductions/credits or earned income credit. Hell if they live alone they can’t claim head of household either. But hey that’s all right with Obama huh? After all, they’ve lived long enough and need to die and make way for the young, right?
If the Bush tax plans didn’t work, why don’t you explain why tax revenues increased with his tax cuts? If what Robert is telling us were true they should have plummeted? The reason is that extra money was being circulated. More goods were bought, which meant more people being paid wages, that money gets taxed, but those employees get more money too so they buy more, which results in more wages being accrued and taxed. That’s a net economical boost. If you cut taxes on the rich, they also spend more. There are more taxes than just income taxes Robert. I’ve examined Obama’s tax plan. The ONLY place where he cuts taxes is with income taxes. Instead he increases other taxes, none of which we can take exemptions or deductions on, and establishes new taxes, including a lot of hidden taxes. It’s the old bait and switch. Those who think they are getting a tax break under Obama will loose every dime of it through other taxes and FICA increases for new incentive and spending plans. Saying that 5% go back to what they had to put out before Bush is also a lie with these new taxes.
But when you increase taxes, growth stagnates and declines. Tax the hell out the rich and they start hoarding their money to await better times. The economy goes into a recession. That increases unemployment. I lived through the Carter years of double digit unemployment. Our family was in the lower tax brackets. Believe me, it wasn’t fun. Yes we are in a recession now, and part of that is due to America having to send our money away to the Middle-East, because Dems have blocked domestic oil drilling, new refinery and nuclear power plant construction. Partly because of the 2 decades worth of failed Fanny Mae, Freddie Mae, and Sally Mae loans which was vastly instrumented by Democrat setting us up for today’s organized crisis, for which they blame the Republicans, Bush, and saying McCain will make even worst. I gaurantee you that Obama’s tax plan would change the recession into a deep unrecoverable depression. That’s the socialist plan. They have to totally destroy our economy so they can reorganize us under a new form of government.
BTW the total tax rate before the 1929 crash to all Americans was only 10%. FDR’s New Deal increased the taxes to all Americans by 10%, and to the rich by 20%. When you add in Social Security, that increased it by another 10% That was before FICA taxes, and our current welfare/medicare systems which increased it by another 10%. And it wasn’t taxing the rich that brought us out of the Great Depression, it was the jobs created by the Work Project Administration of 1939 and the military industrial build-up prior to World War II. Unfortunately war is usually an economy booster. And before you say it, yes I know the WPA was also part of FDR’s New Deal.
As for the Palin isn’t ready or doesn’t have the experience claim, she is just as ready and experienced as JFK, Jimmy Carter, & Bubba Clinton were when they first sat down in the oval office. So Robert? Why not try another Daily Kos/Obama/Acorn talking point. Leiberman doesn’t think Obama is fit to sit in that chair. Pray tell us what specifically HIS executive experiences include? You’re throwing bricks in a glass house?