Keith Ellison & The Koran

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Now isn’t this special:

The first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, attacked for planning to use the Koran at his swearing-in instead of a Bible, will use a copy of the Muslim holy book once owned by Thomas Jefferson, an official said on Wednesday.

Representative-elect Keith Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat, requested the 18th century copy of the Koran for the unofficial part of his swearing in on Thursday, according to Mark Dimunation, chief of rare books and special collections at the Library of Congress in Washington.

Ellison, a Muslim convert who traces his U.S. ancestry to 1741, wanted a special copy of the book to use, Dimunation said, and approached the library for one.

The third U.S. president, serving from 1801 to 1809, Jefferson was a collector with wide-ranging interests. His 6,000-volume library, the largest in North America at the time, became the basis for the Library of Congress.

Thomas Jefferson once questioned Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Tripolitan ambassador to Britain about the continuing piracy of the United States ships to which he told the future President that it was their duty as good Muslims to take the war to the unbeliever:

Take, for example, the 1786 meeting in London of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Tripolitan ambassador to Britain. As American ambassadors to France and Britain respectively, Jefferson and Adams met with Ambassador Adja to negotiate a peace treaty and protect the United States from the threat of Barbary piracy.

These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, “that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

Sound familiar?

The candor of that Tripolitan ambassador is admirable in its way, but it certainly foreshadows the equally forthright declarations of, say, the Shiite Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in the 1980s and the Sunni Osama bin Laden in the 1990s, not to mention the many pronouncements of their various minions, admirers, and followers. Note that America’s Barbary experience took place well before colonialism entered the lands of Islam, before there were any oil interests dragging the U.S. into the fray, and long before the founding of the state of Israel.

America became entangled in the Islamic world and was dragged into a war with the Barbary states simply because of the religious obligation within Islam to bring belief to those who do not share it. This is not something limited to “radical” or “fundamentalist” Muslims.

Which is not to say that such obligations lead inevitably to physical conflict, at least not in principle. After all peaceful proselytizing among various religious groups continues apace throughout the world, but within the teachings of Islam, and the history of Muslims, this is a well-established militant thread.

The Islamic basis for piracy in the Mediterranean was an old doctrine relating to the physical or armed jihad, or struggle.

Now we all know that the swearing in on the bible is symbolic only, but an important symbol at that.  The fact that he would swear in on a book that deems this kind of conduct as a-ok makes my spine tingle. 

This should also make your spine tingle:

Lying for Allah is okay, according to the eminent Islamic scholar Imam Ghazali, who wrote:

" When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).

Imam Ghazali does not say this without knowledge. He is basing his fatwa on the words and examples of the Prophet himself.

In one hadith we read that the prophet calls upon his followers to assassinate Ka’b ibn Ashraf, the chief of a Jewish tribe who was wary of Muhammad and tells them it is okay to tell a lie to deceive him. Bukhari, Volume 5, #369

The fact is that Muslims feel no pang of conscience to lie if that lie is said for Allah’s sake and his religion. If the lie is said for a good cause it is okay.

I’m sure Keith Ellison wouldn’t do anything like that…right?

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So I guess your spine also tingles when reading these little biblical pearls:

Numbers:
“And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'”

Psalms:
“But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such a one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea: That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.”

Deuteronomy:
“And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God…”

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;”

You might also inventory the collected hate and vitriol of Christian fundamentalists who regularly advocate death to unbelievers.

puddintain has an odd translation of the passage in numbers, but besides that, all he has shown is that the Bible supports the death penalty when the judge is legit.

The argument against Mr. Ellison is that he is pretending to take an oath in a way that will fool Jews and Christians, because in their tradition, taking an oath on a holy book means that person is bound by their word. In the Muslim tradition, it is ok to lie if it will “help Islam”.

puddintain builds the straw man and tries to deflect attention from the indefensible issue of lying under oath. (or pretending to tell the truth in a way that American Jews and Christians feel is similar to the concept of “lying under oath”)

The Bible, even the psalm quoted, does not sanction wiping out towns, except as directed by G-d. The Bible is clear that a Judge may sentence a criminal to die after a fair trial, but that prophets no longer exist that can call for the Jewish nation to wipe out a town. Most of the wiping out of towns are done as a result G-d’s word to Moses, in the Land of Israel, and the follow thru of that commandment by Joshua. No cases in the bible are sanctioned without the word of an acceptable prophet, and there have been no such prophets for 2400 years. (Based on the concept that only G-d has the authority to judge nations)

That the early Roman church claimed the right to wage war and take prisoners and slaughter Jews is not found in the Bible. Men make excuses for their evil deeds, and most bible scholars recognize the early churches excesses as inexcusable.

That most Muslim scholars hold holy war to be legit is the worrying part, to those of us who are not Muslims.
Seems to me that it is hard to take the word of a Muslim, or make a contract with one. Who know if he is led by an Imam who believes holy war against the infidel is a commandment?

There is no way in American Jurisprudence to “see into the heart” of a man.

puddintain has an odd translation of the passage in numbers, but besides that, all he has shown is that the Bible supports the death penalty when the judge is legit.

The argument against Mr. Ellison is that he is pretending to take an oath in a way that will fool Jews and Christians, because in their tradition, taking an oath on a holy book means that person is bound by their word. In the Muslim tradition, it is ok to lie if it will “help Islam”.

puddintain builds the straw man and tries to deflect attention from the indefensible issue of lying under oath. (or pretending to tell the truth in a way that American Jews and Christians feel is similar to the concept of “lying under oath”)

The Bible, even the psalm quoted, does not sanction wiping out towns, except as directed by G-d. The Bible is clear that a Judge may sentence a criminal to die after a fair trial, but that prophets no longer exist that can call for the Jewish nation to wipe out a town. Most of the wiping out of towns are done as a result G-d’s word to Moses, in the Land of Israel, and the follow thru of that commandment by Joshua. No cases in the bible are sanctioned without the word of an acceptable prophet, and there have been no such prophets for 2400 years. (Based on the concept that only G-d has the authority to judge nations)

That the early Roman church claimed the right to wage war and take prisoners and slaughter Jews is not found in the Bible. Men make excuses for their evil deeds, and most bible scholars recognize the early churches excesses as inexcusable.

That most Muslim scholars hold holy war to be legit is the worrying part, to those of us who are not Muslims.
Seems to me that it is hard to take the word of a Muslim, or make a contract with one. Who know if he is led by an Imam who believes holy war against the infidel is a commandment?

There is no way in American Jurisprudence to “see into the heart” of a man.

The Barbary Pirates were just that – pirates. They didn’t represent the whole Muslim world, or even all of North Africa.

In response to Barbary raids on their shipping, the United States (represented by Thomas Jefferson) signed a treaty in 1786 with Islamic Morocco (the first country to recognize the United States upon independence, BTW) to protect shipping lines and assert the friendship between the US and Morocco.

It remains, to this day, the oldest unbroken treaty ever signed by the US.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1786t.htm

From what I understand, Jefferson’s version of the Koran was the George Sale translation. Ellison cannot know what he is dealing with. Sale saw his book as a weapon in the conflict with the “Mohammedans”.

Today he would have a fatwa agaisnt him.

I wonder if the last words from Daniel Pearl and the other vicims of the koran heard words from the koran or the Bible before they met their untimely demise. Actions speak louder than words.

Well, well – looks like Ellison may have unintentionally opened hisself a can of worms, with that cute move. Nice of him to provide a national forum on the prophet’s edicts about bringing it to us infidels. I wish we could run a whole page in a major newspaper (like the NYT – HA HA) bringing this conversation into the light. Bloggers will be all over this. Thanks, Rep. Ellison!

Puddintain, put down the shovel. You’ll only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

In our great country, the USA that we love, that God gave to His Sons, Daughters & Childrens is founded upon Jesus Christ – our Savior, Redeemer King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He is the only God that is alive and died so that everyone could have life and have it more abundantly. In the Word of God – The Ten Commandments – God said you shall have no other god’s before me. Honorable men & women have shed their blood for us to have the freedom to worship the one, only and true living God. GREAT SACRIFICE has been given from Jesus Christ and other brave men & women to this day and time that we live for us all to have the freedom to worship HIM. In the Word of God He didn’t say for us to embrase all religions – no as a matter of fact He said to destroy their idols, asher poles and their statues of FALSE gods. For people to come to this USA and to impose their dead and false gods on us isn’t right. To burn our USA flag, protest in the streets for gay & lesbian marriage, abortion and to try (with alot of help from the ACLU) to push their false gods down our throats isn’t right. God did make all of us. He gave us all a choice to serve or reject Him but this shouldn’t give anyone the right to join the senate of this great country and sware in on the Koran. IT’S TIME TO PUT GOD IN AMERICA AGAIN!!!

Why not swear in on an old edition of Batman and Robin. We are regularly criticised in the UK by a number of Americans but this takes the biscuit. These people should not be allowed to have any place in civilised politics, as they still live in the stoneage, and they know how to use stones!!!