The recent film by Agnieszka Holland, Mr. Jones, portrays the Soviet Russians’ attempt in the 1930s — with the assistance of sympathetic Western journalists like Walter Duranty — to cover up the famine caused by collectivization of agriculture in Ukraine. The film is a heart-wrenching and damning account of the Soviet experiment — and of the dishonesty that enabled it.
And yet, 87 years after Gareth Jones showed the world the crimes of socialism, there are still Western enablers who engage in a different kind of coverup of the same facts. As a result, a growing number of young people consider themselves socialists, and socialist politicians have risen in prominence. One was almost nominated as the Democratic Party’s candidate for president of the United States.
It is only thirty years since socialist regimes collapsed economically around the globe, leaving in their wake a death toll of tens of millions. We have seen the same pattern repeated in Venezuela in only the last twenty years. How do today’s defenders of socialism try to cover up this history and justify the ideology that supported such murderous regimes?
One tactic that today’s socialists employ is to portray the lessons of history and world affairs as irrelevant to their cause. They claim that the Soviet Union, Communist China, Communist Cuba, and today’s regime in Venezuela are not real examples of socialism at all. Real socialism, you may have heard them say, has never been tried.
What makes people think this is true? What do they mean by “socialism” and is their view even plausible?
What is “socialism”?
Socialism, in a standard definition, means public ownership of the means of production, which implies the abolishing of private property and ending the capitalist system of free trade and free markets. This is often understood to mean state ownership of the means of production.
By that standard, the Soviet Union, Communist China, and other authoritarian regimes all count as “socialist”: in every case, insurgents seized control of governments which then expropriated private farms, factories and shops from their capitalist owners — many of whom lost not only their property, but their lives. What’s more, these insurgents were led by figures (Lenin, Mao, Castro, etc.) that were explicitly committed to socialist ideology.
The economic failure, famine, and bloodshed suffered by each of these countries flowed directly from the same policies advocated by today’s socialists. Just as socialists demand, businesses were torn from the hands of their creators, those who both knew how to produce and who had a personal financial stake in improving their ability to produce. These businesses were then managed by bureaucrats who lacked both of these qualifications, and who also lacked the tool of the free market pricing system to calculate how much of which goods to produce. Production decisions were determined not with an eye to creating value above cost, but to the demands of arbitrary edicts from central planners. It is no accident that this system created shortages and starvation, and that regimes had to crush the resulting dissent to retain power.
Socialists try to insulate the system they advocate from this evidence of failure by using a talking point that (as we shall see) they have used since the beginning of their movement. They put a spin on the “public ownership of the means of production” definition. Real socialism, they say, doesn’t mean state control of the economy; it means control by “the people,” especially by the workers.
For instance, Bhaskar Sunkara, editor of Jacobin and author of The Socialist Manifesto, claims that real socialism means “democratic” control of the workplace by worker collectives. He claims that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was not a socialist society because it did not involve democratic control.1 Likewise, Nathan Robinson, editor of Current Affairs and author of Why You Should Be a Socialist, claims that, for similar reasons, none of the authoritarian socialist regimes of the twentieth century were socialist, and claims to “hate government and capitalism alike.”2 Richard Wolff, who has been described as “America’s most prominent Marxist economist,” agrees.3 He argues that the Soviet Union was really an example of “state capitalism”: while the nominally socialist party controlled the state, the state was “still capitalist in the employer-employee organization of its economy” because “a minority of persons . . . [the central planners] functioned as employers of an employee majority.”4
Using their definition of “socialism,” these thinkers would have us believe that since state control of the economy is not control by “the people,” no full-scale socialist political system has ever existed in history. If true, this would allow them to excuse their ideology from any responsibility for the murder and oppression of the brutal, allegedly “socialist” systems of the twentieth (and twenty-first) century. It also allows them to pose as the torchbearers of a noble ideal that has simply been corrupted by political operators of the past.
Is there any plausibility to the claim that “socialism” doesn’t really mean state control of the economy, but something else? Are today’s socialists really envisioning a wholly new system than what the revolutionaries of the past actually implemented? Or are they simply playing games with the word “socialism” to avoid the obvious facts?
Fantasy speculation about the role of the state
Not everyone proposing a novelty is indulging in fantasy. A newly envisioned invention, like an airplane, can be based on known facts about birds, kites, and gliders. But even then, experiments are needed to prove the efficacy of the idea. And if the proposal is, say, a perpetual motion machine, which has no experimental basis and goes against the laws of physics, the proposal is selling a fantasy.
Although the proposal that “real” socialism doesn’t require the use of state power might sound new or innovative to the uninitiated, a few questions and a little knowledge of history are sufficient to show it is just as much a fantasy as a perpetual motion machine.
First, note that the socialists paper over the coercion and even violence that would obviously need to happen to expropriate private property from peaceful citizens to set up their system in the first place. (The mask drops when they start advocating “lawbreaking and sabotage” as worthy tactics in revolutionary social change.5) By itself this calls into question any assertion that socialism can be implemented without bloodshed: socialist ends cannot be detached from socialist means.
But even if we could imagine that private property holders were simply persuaded to give up their holdings peacefully, the notion that the ideal socialist system would work without coercion or oppression is hard to imagine, if it is even coherently meaningful to begin with. Consider Richard Wolff’s explanation for how a system of worker co-ops would gradually wean itself from the need for a state:
An economy based on worker co-ops would revolutionize the relationship between the state and the people. In their capacity as a self-employed collectivity, workers would occupy the spot traditionally held by the workplace in state-workplace relations and interactions. . . . The workers would collectively and democratically hold the purse strings to which the state would have to appeal. The state would thus depend on citizens and workers rather than the other way around. . . . The state would have fewer ways and means to impose its own momentum and goals upon citizens or workplaces. To that extent, the state’s “withering away” would become more immediately achievable than in any other variety of socialism known thus far.6
As I’ve argued elsewhere at greater length, the allegation that “democratic control” ensures freedom from coercion and oppression is an old fallacy that turns on an equivocation between a government with elected representatives and a society run by majority rule. The latter is what socialists advocate when they claim that factories should be run by workers, regardless of what the factory’s original creators have to say about it. This constitutes a direct violation of the rights of a minority of individuals. So if workers really do end up holding “the purse strings” of the factories and the power to make the state appeal to them, it makes little sense to say that the state would “wither away” as an entity independent of the workers.7 Rather, the workers would in effect be running a state.8
When Wolff is pressed to provide a real-world example of the system he envisions, he and other socialists often point to the Mondragon Corporation, a Spanish worker-owned manufacturer of a variety of industrial and consumer goods.9 But Mondragon is an international corporation that sells its products to private firms all over the globe, and employs an increasing number of foreign workers who are not members of the collective. At the same time, its workers increasingly depend on pensions from the Spanish state.10 Invoking the Mondragon example evades the question of whether a company like Mondragon could survive in the absence of a more general capitalist system that buys its products and provides market prices by which to calculate resource allocation, and the system of state-sanctioned private property rights that makes this possible.11 It also evades the question of whether a company run “democratically” (unlike most corporations) could exist in the absence of a coercive state that taxes capitalists to fund worker pensions.
The idea that real socialism involves social control of the economy without the state is not new, but you need to be aware of some history to realize this. It goes back at least as far as 1877, when Frederick Engels claimed in Anti-Dühring that after the proletariat seizes control of the state and thereby the means of production, the state would “wither away” or “die out.”12 Evading the important role of a state in protecting peaceful coexistence among individuals by protecting their rights, Marx and Engels held that the only role of a state is to enforce the exploitation of one class by another. Working from this fantastic premise, they deduced without evidence that once the state comes to represent the proletariat, class distinctions would disappear and, with them, the need for the state.13Lenin toed the same line in a lengthier work of no greater depth, but since he was himself a political operative who needed to rationalize his revolutionary actions, he argued that state control of the means of production was necessary as a transitional measure on the way to the achievement of real socialism.14 The same argument was then invoked for years by Stalin as he continued to starve and murder people in the name of eventually achieving the ideal of real socialism.15
All of this means that Lenin and Stalin and the other founders of the brutal Marxist regimes justified their actions using the exact same fantasy as today’s socialists do. They promised that the system they advocated would eventually eliminate state oppression as well. We saw what it actually delivered.
Why should we believe socialists today who also claim that their proposals to nationalize industries will take us further from and not closer to the specter of the Soviet catastrophe? They offer no better evidence than hucksters who sell perpetual motion machines. In fact what they’re doing is much worse, both because they actively evade the evidence, and because what they sell isn’t just dysfunctional — it’s deadly.
The real meaning of socialism
Socialism means public ownership of the means of production. But to understand what this means in practical reality — and why it cannot mean what the socialists propose — we must appreciate what “public ownership” actually refers to.
There is no magical entity called “the public.” A society is composed of individual human beings. In reality, the only mechanism by which the actions of an entire society can be coordinated is by means of a government. And so the only way for anything resembling “the public” to systematically deprive capitalists of private property and to abolish capitalist free trade is for the state to do it. Every socialist acknowledges this, whether they advocate violent revolution to establish a collectivist state or a majority vote to establish the same.
Donald Trump has served as Putin’s tool for attacking our nation’s unity taking the United States apart. That’s all been done to move us out of his way in Europe and the Middle East.
@Greg:
That is total bullshit.
@Greg:
You are correct the government choosing winners and losers as is the habit of Democrats by massive regulation. Contracts given to who you know not what you can do like Bidens family. The terrifying war Obama waged on journalists and whistle blowers to silence them , the fascist. Finally you are right again Biden isnt relevant he is only nursing home bait.
@kitt:
Comrade Greggie seems to forget that the ones that actually paid for “Russian” intelligence was Hillary Clinton and the DNC.
And you have noticed, I’m sure, that Comrade Greggie refuses to answer my question on why anyone should vote for Handsy Joe Biden. Comrade Greggie’s tactic is to attack Trump with b/s while not defending the indefensible Joe Biden.
Now, it is clear that Comrade Greggie is anti-American and is pushing his Marxist b/s even though he denied being a Marxist (which he is). Comrade Greggie is a coward and has no honor as he is willing to promote the lies and fallacies of his left wing handlers, not to mention that he never criticizes China, China’s infecting the world with the Kung Flu and China’s clear involvement in our election to benefit Sleepy Joe.
Ummmm, makes you wonder if Comrade Greggie is a Chinese bot. After all, he did say he fought in Vietnam. Was he VC fighting with the Chinese or maybe Chinese fighting with the VC?
No one does what Comrade Greggie does unless he’s being paid or intimidated.
From The Hill, September 11, 2020 – US deficit officially hits $3 trillion amid pandemic
…or genuinely believe that Donald Trump is the domestic threat in “all threats, foreign and domestic”, in which case you are compelled by your principles to speak out.
President Trump is not a domestic threat fu€knead greg
joe biden is a far more foreign as well as domestic threat.
GFY
Again your ass is chapped because President Trump is ten time the leader your messiah obama was.
You are the biggest unpatriotic anti American piece of shit.
Tell us greg, how did you celebrate the 19th anniversary today of the troglodytes from hell who killed over 3,000 Americans.
Actually, Trump’s record-setting federal deficit will only be a bit over twice the size Obama’s was at the height of the financial crisis and recession, not ten times. Trump does have way over 10 times as many felony count convictions against highly placed campaign and administration figures, however, so maybe you were thinking of that.
@Greg: Tell us Mr Marxist in which case you are compelled by your principles to speak out.What exactly as Trump done that makes him more of a danger than the previous President that preformed a coup in Ukraine triggering a war, A bloody coup in Libya that destabilized a prosperous middle east country that spent its oil money on education its citizens and building infrastucture?
Speaking of Libya isnt today the anniversary of the Barry /Stinky 911 Bengahzi party?
Where they lied about a video over and over. Refused to send help to an embassy after refusing to properly secure it from Barrys “freedom fighters”
Ill take a peace treaties Prez over one that assists terrorist coups any day, every day.
Patriots are not divided no matter how your lil Antifa and BLM loving MSM try.
@Greg:
Well, here’s a thought; let’s just cancel out the debt held by China since China is the reason for so much pain in the U.S. and around the world. I know you would never go for that because you worship the CCP.
Of course, you worshipped Obama even though Americans died due to his incompetence and lying. How much money did he give Iran again? Money that had been awarded to the survivors of the Americans Iran killed when it took a major airliner out of the sky. The survivors got screwed by Obama and the Iranians got plane loads of money.
So what about the Benghazi dead? What about Chris Stevens? What about Susan Rice going on FIVE national tv shows that Sunday to make the salacious claim Benghazi was all about a video no one had ever seen.
If you believe that, you are f**king insane. Obama was the biggest domestic threat this nation has ever seen.
September 9, 2020 – Senior DHS official alleges in whistleblower complaint that he was told to stop providing intelligence analysis on threat of Russian interference
*Which, no doubt, would come long after the 2020 election.
@Greg:
Oh, but what about what Adam Schiff said about Brian Murphy less than six weeks ago?
““In light of recent public reports, we are concerned that Murphy may have provided incomplete and potentially misleading information to Committee staff during our recent oversight engagement,” Mr. Schiff continued, adding that the committee would “be expanding our oversight even further in the coming days.”
Everything that Schiff touches seems to turn to sh!t. Yet, here you are, once again, pimping what you think is THE scandal that will take Trump out of the race.
You’re just an idiot that deserves to be laughed at, not with.
@Greg: Schiff called this same guy a liar, Nunes says an investigation is welcomed.
We wont forget those sacrificed to terrorists at Bengahzi for Barry and Stinkys evil political agendas.
From former federal judge John Gleeson’s court filing Friday, recommending that The Justice Department’s motion to drop the criminal case against former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn be denied:
That’s pretty damn clear. But who hadn’t figured it out already?
September 11, 2020 – Decision to drop Michael Flynn case was ‘corrupt and politically motivated,’ court-appointed lawyer says
Also today, along the same line: Nora Dannehy, top prosecutor on John Durham team, resigns
It’s virtually certain that Ms. Dannehy will be summoned before Congress, either publicly or in a closed door committee session, to explain why she took so extreme a step. If it was a personal reason, she would have so stated. It’s going to be something that she only feels she can tell when she legally required to do so, it a context where her testimony will be taken seriously.
You safely bet dollars against donuts it will turn out that she refused to comply when pressured to put Trump’s political concerns ahead of faithful execution of her duties. This won’t be the first time a principle DoJ prosecutor has resigned from a case or from their job for that reason. I think this might be occasion #5, but I might have lost count.
Barr is Trump’s political tool. There’s no cause for reasonable doubt about that. They’re planning to roll out some bullshit related to the Durham investigation that they can use shortly before the election. Dannehy wouldn’t play their game.
@Greg:
When you get b!tch slapped over one subject, you just move on to another subject.
An honorable person (which you’re not) admits when they are wrong. You just continue to pimp your b/s.
You’re a dishonest, evil liar who doesn’t have the brain it takes to think for yourself and all you are is a left wing whore.
It’s all the same dismal subject. Trump corrupts everything he lays his tiny little hands on. It’s because of what he is.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
@Greg:
Talking to your mirror again, Comrade Greggie?
You’re a loser. Accept that.
Before, Trump had Michael Cohen to run his corrupt errands. Now he’s got the entire Executive Branch—or so he imagines—and he doesn’t even have to pay them out of his own pocket. The taxpayers are made to cover the costs of their own abuses and deceptions.
@Greg:
Rage on, loser. Still waiting for you to tell me why I should vote for Biden by explaining all he has accomplished in his almost 50 years in the D.C. swamp (other than tony deals for his son and brother from foreign entities).
I already know that it is OK with you for Handsy Joe Biden to grope women and young girls. What happened to that MeTooMovement crap? Oh, that’s right, it went away when Tara Reade went public after Camel-La Harris said she believed Tara Reade.
@retire05: He says only the evidence he accepts is important. Gregs religion is his marxist politics and push for a totalitarian communist police state. A state in which phones and servers get wiped to protect the all powerful . If this prosecutor wants her own private reasons or left for death threats which are very, very Clinton body bag & Epstien didnt hang himself real.
@retire05: He says only the evidence he accepts is important. Gregs religion is his marxist politics and push for a totalitarian communist police state. A state in which phones and servers get wiped to protect the all powerful . If this prosecutor wants her own private reasons or left for death threats which are very, very Clinton body bag & Epstien didnt hang himself, Vince suicided himself real.
Because of this, and a long list of other things that Biden wouldn’t have done, or wouldn’t have failed to do.
In November we have a chance to decide which ship sinks—Trump’s, or the nation’s.
@Greg:
That’s right. It’s on tape. Woodward is a reporter. Is that who you think Trump would reveal his scheme to mislead the American people? Really? Are you THAT desperate for a silver bullet?
Tell us, specifically, what action Trump did not take that would have made people safer.
And there’s your problem. Had you, instead of listening to MSNBC and CNN tell you Trump was doing nothing and was not taking the epidemic seriously (when they weren’t accusing him of overreacting and exaggerating the threat to take dictatorial powers), you would have been aware, as we were, that the virus was a serious threat though it was not a death sentence to everyone everywhere. Keep in mind, it was YOUR sources that LIED about Trump calling the virus a “hoax”, that HCQ was deadly or that Trump told people to drink or inject bleach or Lysol (a lie Kamala recently revised). Your own ignorance is your own fault.
THIS is your proof of why socialism repeatedly fails and has to resort to violence to maintain power; it is always based on lies.
Who was “manipulated”? How? Beyond any possible argument, Putin wanted Hillary as President because he had all the emails she Bleachbit-destroyed to blackmail her with, plus the millions of dollars of bribes. Again, is that how pathetically desperate you are; fall back of totally failed and disproven “collusion”? Sheesh.
And Gore. And Obama. They are all of the same herd. Trump has done more to promote peace than almost any other President. Obama unleashed ISIS and gave Iran more cash to finance more terrorism. I really don’t care if Trump actually gets the award or not; it is worthless, prestige wise. I only care about his actual accomplishments, which are substantial.
If you would take notice, EVERY BIT of chaos and disunity in the nation right now is being driven by the left. Also, as you whine about the deficits and debt, did you not notice the economy was shut down due to the CCP virus? Or, should Trump have ignored the “science”, downplayed the virus and left the economy open? Over half of that debt is thanks solely to Pelosi, Schumer and the Democrats loading enormous amounts of pork and waste into aid packages. They hold them ransom for their graft and, if given their way, they would add ANOTHER $2.5 trillion…. for NOTHING. Blame your own idiots for the massive debt.
So, if you worry about such things, does it bother you that Biden has such deep financial ties with China and actually blackmailed Ukraine into protecting the company his son was “employed by” so they could continue to steal US aid dollars?
So, you think Trump should not have closed the economy?
Tell us what evidence remains, not proven to be false, that indicates Gen. Flynn committed any crime?
@retire05: A cartoon. THAT’S why you should vote for Biden over Trump… a CARTOON, based on a lie. Getting a simple answer from Greg (or any other liberal) is as hard as getting ducking Ducklo to give a simple yes or no when asked if Biden uses a teleprompter to answer questions from voters.
Specifically, Trump could have supported and actively promoted the wearing of masks as of April 8 when the CDC stated that everyone should be routinely wearing them, not just symptomatic patients and those caring for them. He’s done the exact opposite. He’s played the dangers of COVID-19 down to the extent that many of his supporters believe masks and social distancing protocols are part of some sort of Deep State conspiracy against their individual freedom, or even that the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax. He’s holding rallies where a majority of people in closely packed, noisy crowed don’t wear masks.
Thousands of additional Americans have died and thousands more will die because of this man’s behavior. His disinformation outlets have attempted to counter his abysmal failure to behave like a responsible leader by promoting the idea that the 192,000 Americans now dead of COVID-19 actually died of secondary causes or underlying conditions.
The man is the pied piper of folly, and doesn’t change an effective sale pitch even when taking it seriously can literally kill people. All he cares about is winning, no matter what must be said or done to do it.
@Greg:
You mean when his team were saying the benefits of masks were minimal? When the economy was shut down and no one was meeting… anyone?
There’s your best shot… masks. Otherwise, Trump and his team did everything that could be done. But, he didn’t promote masks enough to suit you. Of course, had he, you would have begin attacking the usefulness and benefits of masks, just as you did HCQ, PROVEN to highly effective. But, that’s speculation.
No, I mean from April 8 onward, when the CDC finally had enough data to project just how bad COVID-19 could become, and realized that the only effective and readily available measures to prevent an out of control spread were everyone wearing masks in public settings and social distancing. They stated that on April 8 in no uncertain terms, and have not changed their position at any time since. All of the administration’s medical experts have fully concurred.
Donald Trump has NEVER accepted or actively promoted those necessary steps. He has gone from annoyance to actually ridiculing those who do and who have tried to set a proper example. Trump sees the pandemic as a political issue, and masks or their absence as a political signal. Consequently, so do his followers. That is a FACT.
where is your candidate joe biden today? Maybe not a good day to be teleprompter reading.
There is no evidence to support the fact that wearing a mask in public reduces the spread of the China flu.
@July 4th American, #429:
There is no evidence to support the fact that wearing a mask in public reduces the
Right. There are only multiple graphic demonstrations showing the enormous extent by which masks reduce the dispersion of moisture droplets when anyone coughs, sneezes, exhales, or speaks, and indisputable evidence that virus-contaminated droplets are the main way COVID-19 is transmitted from one person to another.
Getting from those basic facts to the conclusion that wearing masks will significantly reduce transmission isn’t a complicated theory that needs to be proved with large scale double-blind clinical studies. It’s common sense.
for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”
@Greg:
Can you provide the CDC press release that stated “everyone should be routinely wearing them (masks)?”
Perhaps you would like to provide the survey of Trump supporters who claims the Chi-Com flu is just a hoax or a “Deep State conspiracy against their individual freedom?”
Yeah, right. The Hill got caught lying about that and had to delete the tweet showing Trump supporters not wearing masks. Except the Trump supporters WERE wearing masks.
More died because of Andrew Cuomo’s behavior, and directives, that because of Trump.
Um, let me see; both Dr. Faux-Xi and the CDC state that those who are of advanced years are more likely to die from the Chi-Com flu due to comorbidities that those under the age of 65. As I pointed out to you before, that you choose to ignore, dying OF the Chi-Com flu and dying WITH the Chi-Com flu is two different things.
Now, perhaps you would like to reference back to what Democrats, including Wilson, FDR and Obama have done that was so much better when it came to a national crisis than Trump has done. I’m sure your response will be laden with comic comments.
@Greg: At one time it was common sense the earth was flat, and blood letting was state of the art medicine.
In the fire areas they said masks were of no use, smoke particles are larger than the virus. If you are sick stay home. Protect the elderly and frail, sanitize surfaces. Virus will just as easily enter the eye when airborne so buy yourself a pair of swim goggles you can be the fearful idiot driving down the street with his windows up wearing a useless mask on your face and goggles add some playtex living gloves and a color coordinated tutu go completely Covidiot.
@Greg:
Trump has supported and promoted EVERYTHING the science has suggested. EVERYTHING. He has short cut nothing. Ever. You are totally full of bitter, sore loser shit. As I said, if masks is all you have, you FAIL. And, you FAIL.
@July 4th American:
Um… you mean like RIOTERS, going forth and rioting in massed crowds every night? Yeah, that’s how much the left takes the precautions seriously.
Like packing nursing homes with infected people, as Democrats did.
I will concede that Donald is an overachiever.
What happened to biden today greg?
He retreated to his basement while President Trump is out campaigning today and tomorrow. Joe biden is not physically able to campaign let alone be president.
@Greg: What you should concede is that Trump has far exceeded any reasonable expectations anyone had of him. He has done a great job and the choice between him and Biden could not be clearer; Biden is failure itself. You should also concede that Trump is the most honest and clean President in history, having been spied on and investigated for about 5 years and NOTHING can be turned up.
@July 4th American: He had to after being thoroughly embarrassed in two interviews yesterday.
Joe Biden is not luring his supporters out to attend COVID-19 super-spreader events.
Doug Heye, Republican political strategist:
@Greg:
That’s not what you originally said, Comrade Greggie. You originally said:
Specifically, Trump could have supported and actively promoted the wearing of masks as of April 8 when the CDC stated that everyone should be routinely wearing them, not just symptomatic patients and those caring for them.
@retire05, #439:
April 3, 2020 – Everyone should wear face ‘masks’ in public, CDC now recommends
Yeah, it’s a recommendation. You know, like “Don’t fill your car’s gas tank while smoking a cigar.” Do whatever you want, like me.
@Greg:
Statements from the CDC for April 2020:
April
Confirmation of COVID-19 in Two Pet Cats in New York – Wednesday, April 22, 2020
CDC Announces Modifications and Extension of No Sail Order for All Cruise Ships – Thursday, April 9, 2020
Statement from CDC Director Robert R. Redfield, MD on the passing of Michael Patterson, Tips From Former Smokers ad participant – Tuesday, April 7, 2020
CDC Launches New Weekly COVID-19 Surveillance Report – Saturday, April 4, 2020
COVID-19-Related Phone Scams and Phishing Attacks – Friday, April 3, 2020
Press Releases from the CDC for April 2020:
April
HHS Announces CARES Act Funding Distribution to States and Localities in Support of COVID-19 Response – Thursday, April 23, 2020
HHS Announces Upcoming Funding Action to Provide $186 Million for COVID-19 Response – Tuesday, April 7, 2020
March
Media Advisories from April 2020:
Nada, zip, zilch
Funny, nothing on the CDC website about an issue you find so damned important.
I didn’t think you went to the horse’s mouth. That’s because you’re on the other end.
@retire05, #441:
Yes there is. It’s currently dated August 7, 2020, however, because the CDC website doesn’t leave obsolete information or recommendations on their pages to confuse people. Their informational pages will always show only the most current information with the date when it was most recently updated.
That doesn’t mean earlier pages aren’t archived and available, however, if you want to see what they said at a particular point in time.
Here’s what the CDC was saying about face masks as of April 7, 2020:
You can click backward or forward a day at a time if you want to find the exact points when changes were made.
@Greg:
So what you are saying is the April 8 issuance is obsolete? And we had to wait until August to get information that wasn’t obsolete? Got it.
And you kow that the CDC doesn’t leave information or recommendations it puts out on their website how? Because how many people do you think know how to use the Wayback Machine or would ever think about it.
Come on, man. Just once you could admit you’re pushing bullshit. It won’t hurt you, I promise.
Now, what has Joe Biden ever accomplished that should make me want to vote for him?
If you aren’t stupid, I’m pretty sure you get it. Not that you’d ever admit it.
If you look at any of their entries, you’ll see for yourself that they only show the current version with the date it was most recently updated. Why would they want to give people outdated information and recommendations? The entire point it to provide the most current and useful information.
It’s a useful tool, if you want to know what was being said at a particular point in time.
@Greg:
What kind of an impact would 4 people make?
@Greg: 445 comments and you cannot defend socialism you cant defend or say why Biden is a candidate worth voting for. You drag the subject off topic with debunked propaganda from the MSM scripts.
Your problem the lightbulb that goes off in your head was the one that was invented by a black man. The history you base your ideology on is from project 1619.
Was Joes first wife killed by a drunk driver? How where Joes grades in college? Where has Socialism ever brought prosperity to the people? How can the virus tell the difference between a rally and a riot or protest, Walmart or Piggly Wiggly from a craft store or hair salon? Why is Kamala, a former prosecutor proud of a rapist that resisted arrest?
Socialism was tried, in the Chop zone how large was their harvest, what was their murder, rape and robbery rate before the new regime failed in the summer of love?
@kitt: You heard Joe… his “agenda” is to copy whatever Trump is doing.
@Deplorable Me: With MSM saying Trump is against masks it has pushed them all libs to wear them, even during sex which is more efficient than putting a bag over a lib females head. 😉
With no Twirl this week I must put out the song from Biden to China and BLM marxists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcD2iexGqZQ&list=RDCcD2iexGqZQ&start_radio=1
@Deplorable Me, #445:
At the beginning, there was only one human being who was infected with a previously unknown coronavirus carried by bats.
September 12, 2020 – Trump uses Fox News interview to accuse Biden of taking drugs
I have yet to hear Donald Trump string three consecutive sentences together into one logical, coherent argument.