While it would have been wiser to leave the 2,000 American troops in Syria longer, both to ensure ISIS’s demise and to protect the Kurds, and while the administration benefited greatly from Secretary James Mattis’s restoration of deterrence, which merited him a much longer tenure, the hysteria over the withdrawal of troops and the unfortunate resignation of Mattis as something end-of-the-world devastating and historically unprecedented is as weird as it is incoherent.
First, we should remember that earlier General Mattis did not resign from the Obama administration; he was summarily and without much cause fired — reportedly without a phone call, causing outrage in January 2013 from many who now see his resignation as unprecedented.
Two, defense secretaries, given the nature of the job, have historically sometimes had short tenures. Harry Truman and Barack Obama each had four different secretaries, many of whom were controversial and at odds with their bosses. At some point, policy differences outnumber agreements, and secretaries resign or are forced to resign. The list of defense secretaries who departed either in less than harmonious scenarios, or for a variety of reasons after only a few months, includes a pantheon of American luminaries, from George Marshall to Donald Rumsfeld, Leon Panetta, and Elliot Richardson.
Three, earlier this year Mattis was the subject of a lot of curious stories quoting appraisals of him as “bulletproof,” given that despite his numerous disagreements with Trump (reportedly on getting out of the Paris climate accord, moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, quitting the Iran deal, transgender soldiers, etc. ), he still was seen as invaluable to the president, who had given him, according to Washington conventional wisdom, unusual latitude and exemption to focus on rebuilding the military and reestablishing deterrent policies.
Four, earlier this year Trump had promised to put troops into Syria to finish up destroying ISIS for “six months.” So his deadline was not really much of a surprise, although most had thought, given the success of the mission, that a continued presence would be in the country’s and the administration’s interests.
@Randy: Peons LOL
Most would agree a Marine Captain at least the equal of a light bird Army type.
Chances are I’ve seen as much “action” as you===thank you for your service..
RE brain disorder—You’re the one who spells like a grade schooler.
O5—Do you believe it was right to desert our staunch ally The Kurds?
@Rich Wheeler: When do we go home? How long must we stay. Our Kurd allies dont have a country where we can set up a DMZ . The last one set up in 1953 well before NK had nukes. 66 years. Muslims have been at war with each other and others for hundreds of years if we set up shop are they going to stop?
Next country to GTFO Afghanistan, leave it to the poppy growers. Spend our money on things to make America better. Space Force.
@kitt: You might enjoy Tulsi tomorrow night—she shares many of your beliefs
She’d be much better for our country than Donald Trump’
Semper Ei
@Richard Wheeler: Im sorry about Tulsi the media you trust hasnt crowned her, they would rather promote an ignoramus like Biden, a liar like Warren or Bernie the old fool that combs his hair with a balloon.
I wish her luck, Trump needs a bit of competition those 3 have no chance they have all been in politics forever and never made anything better. Trying to buy votes with freebies (empty fake promises) is all they got, not 1 single idea to repair the broken systems.
October 14, 2019 – Turkey widens invasion as Syrian army returns to northeast
So, the Kurds are being forced into an alliance with Assad and his Russian ally as a matter of survival; unknown numbers of ISIS fighters and supporters formerly held by the Kurds and the SDF have escaped in the confusion after their prisons were shelled; U.S. troops are scrambling for cover, and our response will be sanctions against a another NATO member—though Erdoğan doesn’t really seem especially intimidated by Trump’s threat to “destroy and obliterate” Turkey’s economy. Maybe he figures the fact that doing so could also “destroy and obliterate” Trump’s multi-million dollar investment in Trump Towers, Istanbul, means the threats are all for show.
There are other worries that come with the alienation of Turkey.
The U.S. has military bases there. There’s said to be growing concern about the security of our nuclear weapons kept at Incirlik AFB.
What we have here is a monumental geopolitical screw-up, resulting from an impulsive decision that for some unknown reason had to be acted on immediately if not sooner, despite the fact that every military expert pretty much said it was completely nuts.
@Rich Wheeler: A marine Captain does not get into the plans and operations sections of any thing above a company level operation. What LTC were you referring to?
@Greg:So, several hundred US troops were going to stop Turkey if they were allowed to attack a NATO country?
@Randy, #107:
U.S. troops would have had no need to stop Turkey. Turkey didn’t make a move until Trump publicly announced that we wouldn’t respond militarily if they did. That statement gave Erdoğan a green light.
@Greg: He had attacked the Kurds in Syria while the Kurds and the US were fighting ISIS in Syria many times over the past year. You are really out of touch with what has been going on over there, yet you have all of these grand strategies How ignorant!
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/10/14/trumps-syrian-maneuver-works-president-erdogan-asks-for-negotiations-with-kurds-insyria/
@Greg: Russia is going to be forced to deal with the situation. Trump, unlike Obama, did him no favors.
@Rich Wheeler:
So wandering around in a rice patty 50 years ago makes you an expert on the Middle East, right?
How critical you are on an issue where you clearly are not privy to all the intelligence.
Tell me, Wheeler, who is Shannon Allen? Never mind, you don’t know. Shannon Allen is the widow of M. Sgt. Mark Allen who recently died. He was shot in the head by a sniper in 2009 while looking for deserter Bowe Bergdahl. For the last 10 years, M. Sgt. Allen had to have help with just living. It took his wife an hour and a half just to get him out of bed for a shower and to get dressed. That was his reward for looking for a pos who deserves to be in Leavenworth making small rocks out of big ones. Instead, Bergdahl got a slap on the back of his hand by having his rank reduced to Private, paying $1,000.00 back from his pay for 10 months and a dishonorable discharge.
You want to rail on Trump, yet I don’t remember you saying a damn thing about the disgrace Obama was when it came to our troops. What did Obama give M. Sgt. Allen who spent 10 years living in a private hell? Nothing. NOT ONE DAMN WORD OF COMMENDATION. Allen gave his life for a damn admitted deserter. We used to shoot deserters. Under Obama their parents got Rose Garden pressers.
Trump actually cares about our military who were only collateral damage for Obama’s failed foreign policies. So shut your mouth until you are ready to own up to the fact that you hold the same mindset as Obama did.
Rest in peace, M. Sgt. Allen.
You truly are a Manchurian candidate.
@retire05: You can praise ol bone spurs who danced the night away WHILE thousands fought and died for our country.He states his war was escaping contacting STD’S. Then he bad mouths a tortured prisoner of war—–He’s got no military cred.
Check your failing memory—I called Obama out on his Red Line.fiasco
You Trumpeteers are lock step lemmings behind Trump—isn’t that so?
You say I’ve got something against women-I say-Tulsi 2020–would make a great POTUS
Rec Manchurian Candidate to all—-original version OUTSTANDING
@retire05:
No, being a certified biased Trump hater that ignores facts makes him as capable as anyone else in hating anything and everything Trump does, regardless of if they supported it in the past or not.
@Richard Wheeler:
Show us some videos of Trump dancing in the early 70’s.
That fiasco is what dragged us into Syria and gave Russia the green light to establish itself there. Yet, now that Trump is correcting that error, you denounce him. Yeah, that all makes perfect sense.
@Randy, #110:
Assuming that Trump’s goals were to force the Kurds into an alliance with Assad, to allow ISIS prisoners held by the SDF to escape, to increase Putin’s influence in the Middle East and his leverage over Europe, and to set the U.S. at odds with a NATO ally, it was a brilliant move.
@Greg: So, who is holding the bag now? Russia!
@Randy: Yeah, and Greg and other liberals don’t like it. Obama spent a lot of effort kissing Putin’s ass and they don’t like to see his “legacy” spoiled.
From FOX News, October 15, 2019 – Turkey holding 50 US nuclear bombs ‘hostage’ at air base, report says
*Maybe we should have “reviewed” our contingency plans regarding the nukes while we were still in a position to remove them at will.
October 16, 2019 – Turkey-Syria offensive: Erdogan rejects US ceasefire call
@Greg: So, It would not take much to un-hostage them! You sure have very little knowledge about how to implement foreign policy when NATO countries are involved. Do you want all out war? Is that your solution? What is your solution oh wise one!
@Randy, #116:
And the bag has everything in it that Russia wanted. What did we get?
@Randy, #119:
Maybe we could airdrop Captain Bone Spurs in to sort things out, since he knows so much more than the generals do.
@Randy: #119 Its exactly what they want WW3 and Trump to blame. They love war the horrors of war, they cry about detained ISIS escaping, but dont say most were women and children, ya lets get out the 50 cal and mow them down cause they are escaping and we can say Trump ordered the death of hundreds of women and innocent babies. Jane Fonda can show up in Turkey and call the guys baby killers.
No more clown town, Trump said he would get us out of endless pointless wars all the beauty pageant winners always want world peace. When he begins on plans out for over a year the war mongers sky scream.
Any way you view it Trump’s timing was terrible—he must have known he was green lighting Erdogen when he pulled back special forces–now he ‘s demanding Frdogen cease or sanctions
Seems Erdogen will cease when he’s damn well ready—-meantime we got a true clusterfuck on the ground. The next couple of weeks will be a bloodbath-but as long as Americans are safe—no problem have at is the Admin’s and most here’s position
@Greg: So, Greg, Russia wanted to be an enemy of Turkey after so many years of enticements? Now, they are allied with Turkeys biggest enemy. That is what Russia wanted? DA
@Richard Wheeler: Trump picked a good time when the Kurds were well supplied and trained (battle hardened) to fight a Turkish army greatly hampered by losing their most competent generals/leaders to politics. It is similar to Obama getting rid of the most dynamic generals during his reign. Conventional strategies in an unconventional world has not worked for many decades. The Great Ronald made many inroads during his 8 years, but no one followed with the abilities to continue his purges of socialism in the world until now. Rich, you lack of intelligence experiences while in the military really shows in your comments on real issues. You should continue to prop up unelectable Democrats!
@Greg: They are on a US Air Force base. Awww… that mean old reality again. Dang.
They didn’t want a war against insurgents. They had the luxury of the US doing most of the fighting (while Assad dropped the chemical weapons on civilians that Obama thought Putin removed). What WE go was OUT; out of a quagmire we should never have been in.
The question no liberal wants to address, apparently: where is the UN?
@Randy: Are you saying the Kurds are good to go against a Turkish invasion—-without our support? The Kurdish military command on the ground have indicated otherwise.
Dems will have a tough go against incumbent no matter who gets the nom.
@Richard Wheeler: Oh, so when were you on the ground in Syria? Maybe you just listen to your media. I would hope that you were not as pathetic as a Marine as you are now.
@Richard Wheeler: You continue to miss the point that Turkey is part of NATO. Will there be a NATO if NATO acts NATO? No, then what would you do former Marine with no ethics?
@Richard Wheeler: What do you think of NYT and CNN calling Gabbard a “Russian asset”? Fake news? Should she be investigated? When she criticizes NYT and CNN is she just being a crybaby and vilifying the media?
We pay the bulk of the UN expenses, yet we are expected to do the UN’s job and resolve all differences and conflicts in the world? All this while the US is criticized for being oppressive and imperialistic. Why does this make sense to some people?
@Deplorable Me: Gabbard is to normal for them no worries about them making her the Nom, how would Hillary swoop in on her broom last minute to take it all, after being tempted by Trump?
I saw what CNN said, I want to see the dossier, who is urinating in her Motel 6 bed ect… Does Shiff have an ad out for nude pics?
Im glad she didnt boycott the debate she needs more national exposure.
@kitt: Of course, she can’t help but be hypocritical; after all she IS a Democrat. She criticizes US forces in Syria involved in a conflict we have no business being involved in but then turns around and criticizes Trump for getting the US out of it. That’s not courage. That’s not leadership. That’s just being a Democrat that is less insane than the others.
@Randy: You’re a nasty old SOB aren’t you.
Very Trumpian
@Deplorable Me, #125:
Correct. As the article said, they’re on Incirlik Air Base—which is in Turkey. It’s a Turkish Air Force Base, not a U.S. facility.
Trump, today, when asked if our nuclear weapons in Turkey are safe: “We’re confident, and we have a great air base there, a very powerful air base. That air base alone can take any place. It’s a large, powerful air base.”
There are around 5,000 U.S. military personnel at Incirlik. Turkey has over 355,000 active duty military personnel. As one would expect, most of them are in Turkey. Trump is a moron. He sent Erdoğan a letter a few days ago:
Trump’s extraordinary letter to Turkey’s Erdogan: ‘Don’t be a tough guy’
@Greg:
And it is a US Air Force Base. It would be ill advised to try and take it over. But, enjoy your frantic fantasies.
@rich wheeler: #129. Anything?
@Deplorable Me: Incirlik Air Base is not an American air base Greg was correct, Incirlik Air Base is a Turkish air base of slightly more than 3320 ac, located in the İncirlik quarter of the city of Adana, Turkey. The base is within an urban area of 1.7 million people. I feel the nukes should be covertly moved if they are still there. A decision best left to the CIC.
@kitt: Thanks for the correction. I’m sure our nukes are secured.
We just bombed our own anti-ISIS headquarters base in Syria to keep it from falling into the hands of Turkish-backed forces, then fled in the face of their advance.
October 16, 2019 – US troops bombed their own anti-ISIS headquarters as Turkey-backed fighters closed in during Trump’s hasty retreat
Sure, our nuclear weapons are entirely safe in Turkey. What could possibly go wrong?
@Greg: So, we should use nuclear weapons against Turkey to protect Syria?
To Randy and his fellow Trumpeteers
I stand with the large majority of Republicans in The House who overwhelmingly went against Trump’s decision to abandon The Kurds. Good for them—you lemmings would follow Trump over a cliff.
Bill Tulsi called out the foolish NYT hit job—good for her
You feel good about The Turks securing OUR nuclear weapons?
Kitt—“a decision left to the CIC”— look out for that cliff
@Richard Wheeler: And how many of those RINOs or never Trumper ever worked in the military and in the intel sections? You Rich have no idea what is at stale here. You just blow your horn of ignorance.
@rich wheeler: No, very experienced and intelligent. Have you ever worked with the Kurds? Do you even know any of their history? I just happen to have one of only about 100 history books of the Kurdish tribes. I also know how to read. You are like a little child who just repeats the last idea that happens to appear in their small mind.
@Randy:
FYI: Owning a book is not an impressive feat.
@FYI:Owningabook: It is if you read it and understand what was written. Most folks who are criticizing the president have no clue what is at stake.
@FYI:Owningabook: It appears that you have failed to read my other posts or you would have understood that I have spent a great deal of time and effort while in the MNFI Intel section in Iraq and before in preparation for deployment to Iraq. I also have several Kurdish friends who communicate with me frequently by email. Having the book provides a historical insight that many people lack.
@Richard Wheeler: He has better intel than your CNN or Fox news.
@Deplorable Me: Been keeping an eye on the situation seems every major war in history begins in that region, we need not be involved. https://newspunch.com/cia-report-destabilize-syria
was also revealed in wikileaks
Amazing how TDS turned all the dems into war mongering neocons.
Randy OK How does what you have learned through your studies of and interactions with The Kurds have ANYTHING to do with Trump’s decision to withdraw.
I’m sure we here, Congress, and other Vets like Lindsey Graham would like to know
House vote 364-60 to condemn Trump withdrawal—not just Rinos and never Trumpers against him
@Richard Wheeler: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/13/all-us-troops-pulling-out-northern-syria-after-turkish-fire-special-forces.html as Greg noted we are hopelessly out numbered by invading forces. Trump is saving 1000 American men. Im sure their friends and family are highly relieved. Shall we begin a war with a member of NATO?
@kitt: Erdogan was not going to attack American troops—Trump green lighted him as we pulled out.
Trump got 30% Repub support in House—–14.5% overall support
This decisive condemnation, if not reversed, portends major problems for DT in 2020
@Richard Wheeler: Read the article was he just going to shell them by accident?
Congress cares about those men as much as they care about homeless vets.
@Richard Wheeler: So your plan is to keep US troops there as shields? Getting involved in another unwinnable Middle East war does not seem to be a very smart move. That does not seem to be a long term solution. The Kurds are a very smart people as well as resourceful. They see this as the opportunity to get their deep water port for Kurdistan. They want our help. Trump had only one choice. That was not fighting a NATO member. Trump can and will fight Turkey’s current administration economically in an effort for regime change. The Kurds are survivors. They have been fighting this battle with Turkey for over 100 years. This is not like the wars in Europe. This is an ethnic war. both sides need to know through harsh reality that they have something they do not want to lose. Someone needed to show them what life may look like if their war continues. That is what Trump is doing. Remember, the Kurds have no country. They are hated in every country in which they live. They are very willing to fight and die to get their own country. They will also do anything they can to achieve that. They are also Muslims with a little twist. Self sacrifice is part of their religion and their occupancy in the after life. Turkey has been in a never ending war they can not win. Turkey will also suffer considerably when Trump’s economic efforts turns them into another third world nation. None of the Turks want that except those who are politicians. Watch as Trump brings them all to the table.