How Trump may ultimately help Jeb Bush

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Ron Brownstein:

The paradox of Donald Trump’s bombastic presidential campaign is that his rise may ultimately benefit the rival he has attacked most vociferously.

With his rambling and belligerent speech in Phoenix last Saturday, Trump signaled again that on the sprawling list of targets that inspire his antagonism, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush ranks near the bulls-eye. “If you people go with Bush,” Trump insisted flatly during the speech, “you are going to lose.”

And yet, while he is creating some risks for the nominal front-runner, many Republican analysts predict that Trump eventually could prove more asset than obstacle to Bush’s bid for the party nomination. “If you were a total evil-conspiracy theorist, you’d think the Trilateral Commission got Trump to run because … it helps Jeb more than anybody,” says longtime Republican strategist David Carney.

The surge of interest in Trump could threaten Bush in one important respect: by radicalizing opinion within the party on immigration issues where Bush has taken a relatively moderate position.

But Trump’s ascent could inadvertently help Bush, both by providing him a foil in the immigration debate, and also by dividing the populist conservative voters who are least likely to ever support an establishment favorite like the former Florida governor.

That dynamic could especially threaten Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who formally announced his candidacy Monday and has taken a series of steps—including a hard line on both undocumented and legal immigration—to court the same disaffected voters now flocking to Trump in polls.

Trump’s most obvious threat to Bush is intensifying the spotlight on immigration, an issue where Bush already faces formidable resistance from the GOP’s most conservative elements.

Even before Trump raised the temperature with his attacks on Mexico, immigration had emerged as a major dividing line in the 2016 GOP race. Almost all of the Republican contenders have rejected any legal status for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S., which Bush has consistently supported (although he has wavered on whether he would also accept citizenship, as opposed to permanent legal status, for them).

Local politicians, human-rights leaders, and immigrant advocates gather to protest against billionaire Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump outside the Trump International Hotel, currently under construction on Pennsylvania Avenue between the U.S. Capitol and the White House, July 9, 2015, in Washington, D.C. Latino and Hispanic people were enraged when Trump disparaged immigrants and particularly Mexican-Americans while announcing his run for the presidency. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

In addition, three contenders—Walker, former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee—have suggested a reduction as well in legal immigration, which Bush has also rejected. Now, Trump’s vitriolic attacks on Mexico have galvanized so much attention that they appear likely to dominate the first GOP presidential debate on Fox News Channel in August.

Polling conducted this spring in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, sites of the critical three early GOP contests, found that a majority of likely Republican voters in each state supported either legal status or full-scale citizenship for the undocumented. In the surveys conducted by Burning Glass Consulting, founded by three women with a long pedigree in GOP politics, only 29 percent of likely GOP primary voters in Iowa, 34 percent in New Hampshire, and 37 percent in South Carolina said the undocumented should be denied any legal status.

But Katie Packer Gage, the cofounder of Burning Glass, and the deputy campaign manager for Mitt Romney in 2012, says those attitudes could buckle under a sustained campaign argument about immigration. “I don’t think we want to have the whole discussion be on immigration,” she says. “When you look at our poll in the primary states, the majority is for a pathway [to citizenship or legal status], but it’s more like they would accept a pathway. It’s not like they are anxious for it.”

Indeed other surveys show a substantial strain of anxiety about immigration—both undocumented and legal—running through the GOP coalition, particularly among the party’s substantial blue-collar and older constituencies. In one national Pew Research Center poll, nearly half of Republicans older than 50 and those without a four-year college degree opposed any legal status for the undocumented. Meanwhile, more than three-fifths of each group said legal immigrants were more a burden than a benefit to American society. On each issue, considerably fewer younger and college-educated Republicans expressed those conservative views.

Although Trump broadly praised legal immigration in his Saturday speech, most analysts believe Trump’s support is likely to flow most from the blue-collar and populist Republican voters who respond not only to his attacks on undocumented immigrants and free trade, but also to his blunt nonpolitician style. “They tend to be people who like the idea that he’s not a politician: They say this is a guy who ‘says it like it is’ and he doesn’t care what people think.” Gage notes. “They like that he is a very successful businessman.” Trump sent a clear signal to those voters on Saturday when he reprised a phrase from the Richard Nixon era that referred to overlooked middle-class white voters and insisted: “The silent majority is back, and we’re going to take the country back.”

Trump’s potential appeal to voters in the party’s populist wing is what could tilt his impact on Bush from threat to asset. Polls generally show Bush running best among the party’s “managerial” wing of college-educated, moderate, and upscale voters. That means if Trump can sustain his support—which many Republican analysts question—he is likely to be strongest among the voters where Bush is weakest. And to the extent Trump attracts those voters, he denies them to more-conventional Bush rivals like Walker or Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida.

Many GOP analysts agree that Bush will benefit if voters alienated from him gravitate to Trump, who probably faces a lower ceiling of total support, than to Walker or Rubio, who have the potential to build a broader and more potent coalition. Combining results from the past three NBC/Wall Street Journal national surveys, just 27 percent of GOP primary voters said they would consider voting for Trump, far fewer than indicated they could back Bush, Walker, or Rubio.

Trump creates even more immediate problems for second-tier candidates such as Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, former Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Huckabee, and Santorum, who have all targeted a similar group of blue-collar and conservative voters. “It just takes the energy out of the room, and it’s going to be harder for a person not in first place to break through,” says Carney, a top Perry strategist in 2012.

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@rich wheeler:

You don’t like his politics so—-‘MADE OVER 60 PROPAGANDA FILMS FOR NVA” BULLSHIT RT

I don’t like any liberals politics.
You must have overlooked my question or there just isn’t an answer that fits. Exactly what act did McCain do while in the US Navy that you would label as ‘heroic’? And the other question was. Quote what Trump said that was ‘disrespectful of McCain’? Not a paraphrase, a quote.
Do you deny that McCain has worked ‘against’ the interest of veterans since being a Senator?

@Redteam, #50:

Did Kerry spend Christmas of 68 in Cambodia at President Nixon’s orders, or not? He said that, I didn’t.

He is almost certainly wrong on that point. His boat patrolled near the Vietnamese/Cambodian border, but there’s no evidence it ever crossed into Cambodia.

@Redteam:The good news is Trump is gonna disappear —-you’re not.
I believe Mac has been an advocate for veterans. “Hero” eye of beholder–well certainly compared to draft dodger Trump.
Actually you are Trump’s water carrier in your defaming of Mac.

@rich wheeler:

Actually you are Trump’s water carrier in your defaming of Mac.

And yet I’ve noticed that you have not been able to quote even one incident in which Trump defamed Mac.

I believe Mac has been an advocate for veterans.

Then you are obviously poorly informed.

All this babbling and boo hooing about Trump and no one has been able to quote one negative thing he said about McCain. I will say that McCain referred to his own constituents as Crazies.

@Greg

:but there’s no evidence it ever crossed into Cambodia.

“I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared — seared — in me.”

He seemed pretty sure. None of his swift boat crew agreed with him.

@rich wheeler: Hey Richie, read this: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

You can believe it or not, but the main emphasis, from my point of view is that many POW’s never came home from Viet Nam because of John McCain. If you’ve done your history, you know that has always been a problem. Thousands of American POW’s in Germany at end of ww2 never came home. Sent to Siberia instead. McCain didn’t want the ones in Viet Nam being found because they might have stories of the Songbird.

I don’t really care if you believe this story or not, but it’s worth reading (it was put out by your newspaper.

@Redteam: Horseshit. like much of the unsubstantiated stuff you throw at the FA wall—it doesn’t stick.

Trump admittedly chased skirts while Mac served and by large majority of sources could have been released from Hanoi Hilton early but refused to leave before his fellow prisoners
Shame on you seaman.for falsely accusing a fellow member of The Naval Service Service.
BTW Name some prisoners that didn’t come home from H.H.

@rich wheeler: oh hell must be assless chaps night

@Redteam: Best you got RT? You’re pathetic
Wish it were that easy to shut Trump up.

@rich wheeler: Your animal shelter is not buying those baby parts from planned parenthood to feed your dogs with, are they? Libs! Lives Matter! unless they are babies.

I guess you like that Iranian deal your guy made. Now they’ve told him to shove it, that they never have any intention of living up to that agreement. They were just playing your guy for a fool. They succeeded.

@rich wheeler:

BTW Name some prisoners that didn’t come home from H.H.

I believe the KGB files showed about 300, you want all of the names?

@Redteam:Ask your KGB buddies for name of One American POW who didn’t return home from the Hanoi Hilton. We’ll confirm with his relatives While you’re at it provide proof of your statement Mac made anti American videos for NVA.
Until you do I consider you, seaman rt, a disgrace to The Naval Service.

Re “babies” You said you were personally against abortion though Ok. with Female Choice Through 2nd tri-mester, case of rape, and if life threatening to mother I AGREED with your position and believe in counseling pregnant women towards adoption and most importantly making adoption easier.
No one I know is for “killing babies” Hyperbole.

@Rich Wheeler:

While you’re at it provide proof of your statement Mac made anti American videos for NVA.

Well, as you well know, proof of that has been made. If you won’t believe those vets that were there and saw it personally, then you just choose to believe what you like.

Until you do I consider you, seaman rt, a disgrace to The Naval Service.

I kinda thought you really felt that way about Veterans that don’t share your liberal socialist views.
For some reason, you keep ‘demanding’ proof. I asked two things: Give me a quote of Trump that denigrated McCain. And 2: What act did McCain do that made him a ‘hero’?

Re “babies” You said you were Ok. with Female Choice Through 2nd tri-mester,

No, I did not. Only a couple weeks after she finds out she got pregnant. Certainly not after 1st Tri.
So, I interpret your answer as, it’s okay to feed the baby parts to the dogs?

@Redteam: When YOU seaman RT make slanderous accusations about a Naval Service Officer I ask for proof–You shuck n jive What’s new?.

@Rich Wheeler:

When YOU seaman RT make slanderous accusations about a Naval Service Officer I ask for proof–You shuck n jive What’s new?.

My title is Mr. not Seaman McCain is not a Naval Service Officer, he is a US Senator. He only deserves the respect he earns, which to date is none.

No one can force someone to learn, you are no exception.

@Redteam: On O’Reilly Trump said he respects Mac and agreed with Bill O that Mac was indeed a hero. I concur with them. How bout you?
BTW No BS. about missing POW’S from H.H. or “50 something” anti-American pro NVA videos— That’s yours

Now Trump put out Lindsay Graham’s cell phone number at a televised rally. It’s one thing to be non-PC and non-establishment. It’s a breath of fresh air these days. But Trump is going off his rocker. The sad part is he probably could have done some actual good but instead wasted the opportunity in order to put on a big ego satisfying sideshow. Just think, if he were to become POTUS we would be replacing a neo-Marxist ideological driven narcissist with a bat shit crazy narcissist.

I have a gut feeling that eventually evidence will come out that he knowingly employed illegal immigrants which will make him look like a hypocrite and cause him to lose support.

@Redteam, #55:

He seemed pretty sure. None of his swift boat crew agreed with him.

I guess that serves as proof that Kerry’s boat crew won’t back up incorrect information.

They do back up the official record of events that led to the award of his decorations.

Not one of the Swift Boat “truthers” that disputed the official record was actually present at any of the actions in question. Not a single damn one of them. They’re all making claims about events that they did not witness.

Was that your point?

@Rich Wheeler:

On O’Reilly Trump said he respects Mac and agreed with Bill O that Mac was indeed a hero. I

I can’t agree or disagree, I have never heard a description of the act that McCain did that they are questioning whether it was heroic or not. Could you tell us what the act was?

BTW No BS. about missing POW’S from H.H. or “50 something” anti-American pro NVA videos— That’s yours

There is no question that many POW’s were left behind. From WWI, WWII, Korean war, Viet Nam War. I’d think you’d know a little more about your country’s history. Should read up, might help your education. Not sure if it was all Videos, may have been some that were only audio. There’s many stories on line dating back to ’73. Get your head out of the sand.

@another vet:

I have a gut feeling that eventually evidence will come out that he knowingly employed illegal immigrants

They tried that one back during the last election. Trump only signs contracts with contractors. His contracts specify that they are not to use illegal immigrants. Trump does not personally hire the contractors laborers nor does he check their SS numbers. Most people don’t seem to have a problem with the US having a president that didn’t pass E Verify.

By the way, Trump was talking about Graham because of Graham’s actions, just as he was responding to McCain referring to Arizonians as ‘crazies’. Talking about batsh*t crazy, that fits Graham very well.

@Greg:

They do back up the official record of events that led to the award of his decorations.

Are you drinking this morning? Look, I have never commented about Lurch’s military service. My comments about him deal with his treason after he got out of service, when he talked about all the crimes he had committed, reminiscent of Genghis Khan. and When he collaborated with the enemy. He is a traitor, that’s the problem I have with him. So go fly your kite somewhere else where you can get your feet back on the ground.

@another vet: You say Trump is “a batshit crazy narcissist” You’re being kind.

Greg RT has a real problem with backing up his claims—-he just throws stuff out for reaction—he doesn’t have a clue what’s true and what isn’t. What’s more he doesn’t care. A true caricature of the far,far right wing of our country. I love it.

Just look at this story:

Donald Trump questions John McCain’s war heroism

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/18/8998243/trump-mccain-war-hero

Not one word in the story about Trump questioning Trump’s war record or whether or not he is a ‘hero’.
Can’t the people that think Trump is ‘wrong’ say what he is ‘wrong’ about?

Someone step up. Give us the quote where Trump ‘questions’ McCain’s hero status.

@Rich Wheeler:

Greg RT has a real problem with backing up his claims—-he just throws stuff out for reaction

kinda like you ‘backing up’ your claim that Trump questions McCain’s hero status? Kinda like you claiming McCain didn’t make any propaganda broadcasts for the NV?
You’ve backed up these claims?

A true caricature of the far,far right wing of our country.

Is that better or worse than being a member of the liberal socialists abortionists gang? Sorry for leaving out assless chaps wearing rainbow flag waver, but it would have made a long sentence.

And you’re talking to Gullible Greggie, who gave up a couple days ago, but had to return. Wonder why? Is he a sadist?

Here’s news the Lefties love:

Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider, performed 327,653 abortions in one year, according to the latest data published in its 2013-2014 report.

From Oct. 1, 2012 to Sept. 30, 2013, Planned Parenthood performed 327,653 abortions. Over the course of those 365 days (or 8,760 hours), that averages out to 898 abortions per day and 37 abortions per hour.

Planned Parenthood has come under increased scrutiny recently after a video surfaced showing its senior director of medical services, Dr. Deborah Nucatola, discussing the harvesting of baby body parts.

They can have bragging rights to this story.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/planned-parenthood-we-did-327653-abortions-one-year?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cns&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=n-planned-parenthood-abortions

@Redteam: i’m supposed to provide proof that Mac didn’t make 50 videos ( now you say they may have been audios) for the NVA.
You made the accusation–now back it up–
You made the accusation that all POWS being held at HH did not come home–back it up.

These are serious accusations seaman–don’t be a coward and walk away.
BTW seaman RT—Were you ever tortured in that cushy ride you had offshore?

@Redteam: I think Trump missed a golden opportunity here. Remember Perot in ’92? Another billionaire who threw his hat into the ring. Instead of campaigning like some sort of a TV reality show host, he used his successes to draw attention to real issues that everyone else didn’t want to talk about because they required some unpleasant solutions to fix like the debt.

Trump’s little sideshow with McCain is a prime example of what his campaign is all about. It was only natural that after McCain called his supporters “crazies” that Trump was going to go after him. Anyone else would have done the same thing. I would have myself if I were in his shoes. There are a number of issues that Trump could have gone after McCain on that would have been effective. Instead, he brought up the one issue that McCain is not vulnerable on that being the military. Why? Because it was bound to get him the most attention and create the biggest hoopla. Lots of drama and controversy but highly unproductive. His platform has become one big soap opera when it could have been about solutions to the debt, real job and economic growth (something people would have listened to him on), illegal immigration, turning the tide against terrorism, and restoring our Constitutional form of government.

@another vet:

There are a number of issues that Trump could have gone after McCain on that would have been effective. Instead, he brought up the one issue that McCain is not vulnerable on that being the military.

I agree that Trump is speaking on hot button issues. I do not agree that he ‘attacked’ McCain on his military service. I’ve asked several times on here for someone to give me the quote, about McCain, that was derogatory toward his military service. So far no one has chosen to share what it was. I haven’t seen anything myself, that’s why I ask.
I personally will not say anything derogatory about his military service.(well, other than repeating the stories about him collaborating with the NV. Where there’s smoke, there’s at least a smoke making machine. But I would say a lot about him in his time in the Senate where he has stood in the way many times when he had an opportunity to help vets. Not only did he not try to help, he actually stood in their way.

when it could have been about solutions to the debt, real job and economic growth (something people would have listened to him on),

Those are not ‘hot button issues’, peoples eyes just glaze over. But get on illegal aliens, terrorism, liberals, those will push buttons.

RT: Your claim that Mac made 6o videos–now you say or audios that assisted the NV.
That’s a serious accusation—-provide proof.
You claim not all POW’S came home from the H.H. and Mac bears some responsibility—provide a name.
You are accusing a man of serious misconduct seaman RT.
Let’s see some proof or walk away a coward.
btw Were YOU ever tortured on that cushy ride you had offshore circa 64?

@Rich Wheeler:

That’s a serious accusation—-provide proof.

I already did. review the links on this thread.

You claim not all POW’S came home from the H.H. and Mac bears some responsibility—provide a name.

That’s not what I said. read again and re-phrase your question.

You are accusing a man of serious misconduct seaman RT.

You have serious memory problems.

Let’s see some proof or walk away a coward.

Right after you post that quote by Trump that is derogatory to McCain. I’ve asked for it several times. You don’t seem to understand.

btw Were YOU ever tortured on that cushy ride you had offshore circa 64?

’64? The same guys that were torturing you were coming over to see me later. I guess they didn’t get through with you.
Those chaps must have your mind in a bind.

@Redteam:

I’ve asked several times on here for someone to give me the quote, about McCain, that was derogatory toward his military service.

When talking about McCain he said, “He’s a war hero because he was captured,” Trump replied dismissively. “I like people that weren’t captured, OK?”

So in his own words he has an issue with McCain specifically and POW’s in general because they were captured. If I, talking about your military service, stated dismissively that I like people who didn’t serve on ships wouldn’t you regard that as a derogatory comment towards your military service?

@another vet:

When talking about McCain he said, “He’s a war hero because he was captured,” Trump replied dismissively. “I like people that weren’t captured, OK?”

Who determined that it was said ‘dismissively’? but anyhow, he said ” “I like people that weren’t captured, ” isn’t that referring to others? Not McCain. I see it as two statements. 1 “He’s a war hero because he was captured,” which is certainly not derogatory and 2. “I like people that weren’t captured, “. I dont see that as referring to McCain at all. It seems a matter of interpretation and intent.

If I, talking about your military service, stated dismissively that I like people who didn’t serve on ships wouldn’t you regard that as a derogatory comment towards your military service?

Absolutely not. You nor anyone else can make a derogatory comment about my military service. It would not be a reflection on my service, it would be a reflection on your judgment.

I don’t even think Rich wearing his assless chaps is derogatory. I’m happy that’s he’s ‘found himself’.

RT @Redteam: Re Trump Hope AV has squared you away in #81

You have provided no proof that Mac made any videos or audios that assisted NV. This even after he was tortured. As a former Marine Officer who fought the NVA on the ground in 67-68 I’m calling you a COWARD seaman for making that accusation.
Re your very strange obsession with ass-less chaps. Will you provide us with the link to video you are rumored to have made wearing them proudly–I can’t prove it exists but that shouldn’t matter.I’ll bet your wife loves you in em—Who knew?

@Rich Wheeler: You must be even more stupid than I had given you credit for. If you can’t follow at least one link, there’s not much hope. I can see why the Libs love you, with no frigging mind of your own, they can pretty well lead you around by the nose. (and have been doing quite well at that)

As a former Marine Officer who fought the NVA on the ground in 67-68

I guess you want us to call you a ‘hero’ for that, or only if you had been captured? I won’t say anything about your military service because I don’t know anything about your circumstances. That’s between you and your government. It doesn’t surprise me that you would say something detrimental about me serving, because well, you’re just being you.

Re your very strange obsession with ass-less chaps.

I suppose you’ve forgotten how proud you were to tell us on the blog here how proud you and your wife were to be prancing around in a homosexual parade. Surely your participation required at least minimal ‘pride’ costumes. I do notice that you didn’t post photos on your facebook page nor link to any from here. Do those homosexual buddies/friendships know that you are now disavowing your allegiance and participation, trying to insinuate it must have been someone else, it wasn’t you. How shameful.

@Redteam:

Rich said to you:

You have provided no proof that Mac made any videos or audios that assisted NV

Watch this:

@retire05: Thanks Retire, I’m pretty sure that was linked to above, quite a ways back, but Rich isn’t interested in the truth. He’s in a huffing puffing name calling mood. Truth be damned. I told Richie that there were several links above. He hasn’t watched any. There are a ton of those on you tube. Apparently McCain (as most of us know) is just an idiot.

Notice how he’s not enraged that Planned parenthood is selling baby parts, “what me worry” That’s just business as usual for the Dims. But saying that McCain wasn’t doing is job is just ‘too much’..

I think his assless chaps must have him in a bind. He’d better get a re-fit, I think his ‘gang’ is having a gathering this weekend.

@Rich Wheeler: RT and I are obviously in disagreement. Us cons don’t always march in lockstep with one another, something I’ve noticed the other side of aisle does. Him and I would disagree about the JFK assassination as well.

As for Greg, he has come here more than once bashing others’ service. He claimed the SEAL’s who criticized Obama in 2012 weren’t “real SEAL’s”. A few weeks ago when David was relating his OIF experiences, Greg told him “nonsense”. When David challenged him to back up his claims, he ran away from the thread never to come back, unless he did it well after the fact. In a face to face situation, both of those incidents would have been worthy of an ass whoopin’. Do you support comments like that?

@another vet: RT is a classless fool. He sits offshore in a cushy ride and has the balls to knock a man that was tortured, He’s worthless.
You can stand up for him if you want. He’s not worth my time anymore.
Didn’t see Greg and David’s back and forth.Believe Navy Seals have a right to criticize CIC when they get out.
Believe swift boaters were politically motivated. I’m gonna believe the guys on Kerry’s boat over the guys that were way down river.
I enjoy your takes on the candidates. Saw someone call Trump “The GOP’S Kardasian.”

@Rich Wheeler:

RT is a classless fool. He sits offshore in a cushy ride and has the balls to knock a man that was tortured, He’s worthless.

Classless? Maybe you should check out what the word means. So even after I said I won’t talk about your service and that you know nothing of mine, you still denigrate mine, feel free. I still won’t talk about yours.
So you believe Kerry’s statement that he was in Cambodia Christmas 68 even tho he was proven to be lying. You would. He’s a traitor and a liar. Just your kind of guy. (how’s he in his assless chaps?) Maybe y’all can spend more time together.

Be sure to call Planned Parenthood and make a donation. Hope you and your wife enjoy the ‘shebang’ this weekend.

@another vet:

Him and I would disagree about the JFK assassination as well.

Interesting subject. I don’t remember discussing that on here, but I do have opinions on it. have been a follower of the subject since it happened. Oh, and it’s interesting that Rich didn’t notice the comments his liberal buddy had about other’s military service. Convenient, that way he doesn’t have to criticize him.

@another vet #87 –

I generally try to avoid individuals like Greg. They’re a waste of my time and everybody else’s. Though Greg, and others like him, are entitled to their opinions, they are an intellectually dishonest lot. They’re unable to acknowledge another point of view, and declare whatever is said in opposition as “poppycock” (a term Greg likes to use a lot).

What I found amusing was his attempt to school, in this thread, on Riverine operations, particularly in Vietnam. The boat squadrons we initially had there were for the insertion and extraction of SOF teams, particularly for SEAL personnel. Occasionally, SEALs were tasked for Riverine operations if it involved HVT’s or specialized enemy forces. The type of low-draft patrol craft Greg described were largely inadequate for the mission sets they were given. Boston Whalers, for example, the type of craft Kerry commanded, were too loud for any kind of “secret” missions or for SOF missions – you can hear them coming from a mile away. The other craft that were used had similar issues with noise, inadequate armament, egress (on/off) issues, speed, etc. By the time the war was winding down, Riverine units had boats similar to what SEALs were using, minus the specialized equipment.

Regarding politics, I don’t mind CONs having to be in lockstep. It’s okay not to agree on every issue. What I do mind is when they stay home and not vote, or vote but not vote for the most rightward candidate (usually an R), then grouse when the Dem wins. Reagan, who many cite often as the conservative standard, said he would settle for even “51% of the loaf” on policy and that he would come back for the rest at a later date. McCain and Romney aren’t my first choice to be president, but I voted for them because it was better than the alternative.

@David: I voted for McCain and Romney as well. I will vote for the R nom this year, unless it is an ineligibe one (3 of those in the race at the moment) We’ve now had one of those and we don’t need another one.

@David:

I generally try to avoid individuals like Greg. They’re a waste of my time and everybody else’s. Though Greg, and others like him, are entitled to their opinions, they are an intellectually dishonest lot. They’re unable to acknowledge another point of view, and declare whatever is said in opposition as “poppycock” (a term Greg likes to use a lot).

I agree 100%. The only reason I know what he wrote about you was because I read your response to him on that thread. His bashing of the SEAL’s was quite extensive and even personal. At that time I was still reading and responding to his posts.

What I found amusing was his attempt to school, in this thread, on Riverine operations, particularly in Vietnam.

Just like he tried to school Old Trooper who was a Ranger Bn Cdr in Afghanistan on the terrain in Tora Bora and how easy it would have been to get OBL.

Regarding politics, I don’t mind CONs having to be in lockstep. It’s okay not to agree on every issue.

Independent thought is a wonderful thing unlike the collective thought of the other side.

@Rich Wheeler:

You can stand up for him if you want.

Where exactly was I standing up for his views on this matter? Him and I have had multiple exchanges on this thread and we have been in disagreement just about the entire time. As a matter of fact, I was the first one to raise the issue about Trump’s comments about McCain. See the very first post on this thread.

@Redteam: I’ve read your comments on past threads about the JFK assassination so I know we would disagree. I think Oswald was the lone assassin.

Mean while, back on topic, here are Trump’s words of wisdom today:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/07/22/trump-rick-perry-put-on-glasses-so-people-think-hes-smart/

The roasts on The Dean Martin Comedy Hour were far better.

@another vet: I think you’re a stand up guy. Long ago .I stated I visited this site to learn about Conservatism from folks like Aye Chi, Mata, Word and Aqua–I was rewarded.
This guy RT, is in my view, an extremist—-all know what I mean.
I said nothing about Kerry’s statements. I said I believed the guys on his boat that supported him. At least one was a registered Repub. The swiftboaters were a long way from the action.
His constant reference to homosexual garb, is in my mind, very bizarre. Why is he so enamored with the subject?

@David: Very informative.
When were you in country? Ever get to Khe Sanh?

@another vet: I don’t personally care much for Trump, though he’s saying a lot of things that need to be said. (and I’m not talking about McCain or Perry) but if other Repubs are going to say things about him, then I think that opens the pathway. I wish all Rep would talk about Dims and leave other Repubs alone. When McCain and Graham came up with the Gang of Eight Open Borders operation, that was just too much. I’m not for anyone that will not agree to secure the border.
JFK deal, there are many forums for that and I comment on some. No amount of discussion on that subject will ever resolve the issue. I’ll leave it to those forums.

@Rich Wheeler:

His constant reference to homosexual garb, is in my mind, very bizarre. Why is he so enamored with the subject?

I think your memory deceives you. You brought up the homosexual deal, you told us about how proud you are of participating. If you didn’t want discussion on the subject, why did you tell us how proud you were to be involved in the movement. So then when I congratulated you on your choice of lifestyle, you pretend to be offended. Make up your mind. Oops, excuse me. Did you get your Planned Parenthood donation in on time? I’m extreme? I don’t prance around in homosexual garb and celebrate the lifestyle. I don’t support Planned Parenthood.