How Russia Can (And Will?) De-NATO-size Europe

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by MoA

In a video published yesterday Gonzalo Lire, currently under house arrest in Karkov, is asking a very interesting question:
 
What Happens To Europe When Russia Wins? (vid)
 
Lira states, and I agree with him, that Russia will win the war in the Ukraine, take the south and east to likely create a new country and leave the rest of the cadaver for Poland, Hungary, Romania, Lithuania and others to feast on.
 
But then what?
 
The U.S. controlled NATO will still be there. It is practically guaranteed that the U.S. will use it to push for revenge for the loss of Ukraine. This will be done by a steady buildup of troops and long range missile capabilities along Russia’s Nordic and Baltic borders and additional naval threats in the northern Arctic as well as the southern Black Sea. Some ten years from now the U.S. would be able to again try to wage a big (proxy) war against Russia. Then with a decent chance to win.
 
No negotiations or peace agreements will prevent that. The U.S. is famously non-agreement-capable (недоговороспособны). It has broken ALL promises and agreements it has ever made with Russia.
 
Dozens of U.S. and European luminaries had promised to Russia that NATO would expand ‘not one inch’ towards Russia. Look where its borders are now. The U.S. and the EU have confiscated huge amounts of Russian state owned money. They have even taken, in contradiction to their own constitutions, the properties of private Russian citizens just because those persons happen to be Russian.
 
In 2014 Germany and France signed on to guarantee elections for a peaceful regime change in Kiev. A day later the fascists stormed the Ukrainian parliament and those guarantees turned out to be totally worthless. The U.S. simply said fuck the EU. It does not give shit about European interests. Germany and France later negotiated and signed the Minsk-1 and Minsk-2 agreements. They continued to feed billions of EU money into Ukraine even as the Ukrainian government, controlled by the U.S., did nothing to fulfill them. Yes, they were that stupid.
 
The U.S. has installed ‘missile defense’ systems in Poland and Romania which are in fact designed to lob Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (IRBM) onto Moscow. These are a serious danger to Russia.
 
Even after Ukraine is finished, NATO and its EU proxies will continue to be a danger to Russia. Both have proven to be unable to keep promises. Russia in consequence will have to rearrange them.
 
Russia could do that by force. But there will be no march towards Riga, Warsaw, Berlin or Paris. (Remember that Russia has been there and done that which every time has led to major changes in Europe.)
 
Russia has announced its strategic aims. In December 2021 Russia set forth two agreements which the U.S. and NATO. They included demands for a future arrangement in Europe that would guarantee indivisible security for all. On January 21 2022 the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was to meet Secretary of State Anthony Blinken in Geneva to talk about Russia’s proposals. Just minutes before that meeting the Foreign Ministry of Russia held a news conference to answer media questions:

Question: What will Russia’s demand that NATO return to the 1997 framework mean for Bulgaria and Romania? Will they have to leave NATO, remove US bases from their territory, or something else?Answer: You mentioned one of the cornerstones of Russia’s initiatives. It was deliberately set forth with utmost clarity to avoid any ambiguity. We are talking about the withdrawal of foreign forces, equipment, and weapons, as well as taking other steps to return to the set-up we had in 1997 in non-NATO countries. This includes Bulgaria and Romania.

Reuters reported:

MOSCOW (Reuters) – The security guarantees that Russia seeks from the West include provisions requiring NATO forces to leave Romania and Bulgaria, the Russian foreign ministry said on Friday.Moscow has demanded legally binding guarantees from NATO that the bloc will stop its expansion and return to its 1997 borders.
 
Replying to a question about what that would mean for Bulgaria and Romania, which joined NATO after 1997, the ministry said Russia wanted all foreign troops, weapons and other military hardware withdrawn from those countries.

After more than 20 years of watching Lavrov and Putin everyone should know that they do not publicly set out aims if they have no way to achieve them. They always have well thought out plans before announcing their goals.
 
So how can Russia actually achieve a retreat of NATO back to its 1997 borders?
 
Sanctions. The U.S. has used its economic and military powers to sanction this or that country that did not do as it was told to do by Washington. Unless enacted by the UN Security Council such sanctions have no basis in international law. Despite that the U.S. even used secondary sanctions. It threatened sanctions against Europe, and everyone else, as it ordered them to not deal with Iran or Venezuela.


Russia can do similar. But as it always follows international law, it will have to do it in a slightly different way.
 
Russia is a superpower in that it produces all kinds of raw materials the world, and especially the ‘west’, needs. Europe, and especially Germany, is depending on natural gas and oil from Russia. Energy prices in Germany will at least triple if it is completely cut off from Russian supplies.
 
German industry leader have loudly announced that they will have to close shop if the current European policies of restricting Russian energy supplies continues. The chemical giants BASF and Bayer will have to move to some other country. Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW will have to stop all production in Europe. Steel production would fall to zero. Lack of fertilizer would lead to dependency on foreign agriculture.
 
Mass unemployment would follow. Millions will be in the street to protest against rolling blackouts, freezing apartments and hyperinflation.
 
Russia can achieve this at any time. It simply has to stop supplying gas and oil to Europe.
 
Despite six European ‘sanction packages’ against Russia there has yet to be a reciprocal response from Russia. It may still hope that European leaders will recognized the deadly game the U.S. is playing with them.
 
Unfortunately the leaders of Europe are dumb and compromised. The ‘olive green’ German Minister for Economic Destruction Robert Habeck still dreams of bringing Russia’s economy to its knees even as the ruble rises and Germany’s economy is falling apart. Chancellor Olaf Scholz was never the brightest bulb in the room. He is deeply compromised through his involvement in the Wireguard scandal. He was the Minister of Finance when reports of the company’s billion dollar fraud were suppressed by his ministry. And don’t get me going about Ursula van der Leyen who has been proven to be corrupt and incompetent ever since she took her first public office. U.S. secret services will know of many other crimes these people have been involved in.
 
The current ideological leaders of Europe will have to be replaced by clean ones who follow the German tradition of Realpolitik:

Realpolitik (German: [ʁeˈaːlpoliˌtiːk]; from German real ‘realistic, practical, actual’, and Politik ‘politics’), refers to enacting or engaging in diplomatic or political policies based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than strictly binding itself to explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises. In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism. It is often simply referred to as “pragmatism” in politics, e.g. “pursuing pragmatic policies” or “realistic policies”.

Only with new and decent leaders will Europe come to its senses.
 
Russia can help to achieve that while at the same time solving its NATO problem.
 
It can publicly declare that:
 
THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER RUSSIAN SUPPLIES OF ANY KIND TO EUROPE UNTIL IT BREAKS WITH WASHINGTON.
 
What would follow?
 
Millions of discussions under candlelight would be held in freezing and hungry European households. Political opinions would change. Governments would be replaced with more pragmatic ones.
 
France and Germany would either have to leave NATO or become impoverished and irrelevant. U.S. troops on European grounds would be asked to leave or be attacked and thrown out by an enraged public. Germany would prohibit the U.S. military from using its airspace. The U.S would lose its grip over the continent.
 
That can’t happen? Well, Gonzalo Lira disagrees and so do I. In early February, before the Russian intervention in Ukraine, I had warned of the consequences of current ‘western’ policies:

The U.S. strategy to ‘fix’ Russia in Europe by imposing ‘crushing sanctions’ on it to then attack China is failing. That is because it was completely misconceived.Russia is the most autarkic country in the world. It produces nearly everything it needs and has highly desirable products that are in global demand and are especially needed in Europe. Russia also has huge financial reserves. A sanctions strategy against Russia can not work.

The consequences for Europe were obvious:

The U.S. and its proxies in the EU and elsewhere have put up very harsh sanctions on Russia to damage its economy.The final intent of this economic war is regime change in Russia.
 
The likely consequence will be regime change in many other countries.

All energy consumption in the U.S. and EU will now come at a premium price. This will push the EU and the U.S. into a recession. As Russia will increase the prices for exports of goods in which it has market power – gas, oil, wheat, potassium, titanium, aluminum, palladium, neon etc – the rise in inflation all around the world will become significant.

[Russia and China] have spent more brain time on the issue than the U.S. has.
 
The Europeans should have acknowledged that instead of helping the U.S. to keep up its self-image of a unipolar power.
 
It will take some time for the new economic realities to settle in. They will likely change the current view of Europe’s real strategic interests. 

Europe is fortunate in that Russia, even before re-entering the Ukraine, has offered a very decent alternative to U.S. hegemony in Europe:

Read more
 

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Russia launches incursions into other countries and they expect nations near their reach NOT to want to join NATO?

We correctly did not approve the League of Nations treaty post WWI. We did however foolishly sign on to the post WWII replacement by the name of NATO.

NATO is a collection of office desks in Brussels that has never effectively accomplished anything close to its stated mission.

Along with the UN; we should say so long to both.

And then what? Go it alone?

How is getting out of NATO “going it alone?” Are Sweden and Finland, veritable utopias with almost no crime doing poorly by not being in NATO?

If Sweden can have a perfect healthcare system and isn’t in NATO, doesn’t that mean if the US leaves, free healthcare will magically be possible?

The USA has been going it alone, and paying for the lifestyle of Europe, since WWII.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nathan Blue

How is getting out of NATO “going it alone?”

Here’s what TrumpWon wrote:

Along with the UN; we should say so long to both.

If you leave the collective-security organizations, you’re going it alone.

The USA has been going it alone, and paying for the lifestyle of Europe, since WWII.

I really hope no one pays you to troll. You suck at this.

Today is the 78th anniversary of the Normandy landings. That’s what it took to liberate Europe the last time the aggression of an authoritarian lunatic was ignored.

Europe is getting invaded because they successfully infiltrated other nations governments and are trying to realized a globalist union, one that’s just Euro-controlled and yet another tyranny.

They will reap what they sow.

291,000 American soldiers died WWII.

11.4 Million Soviets soldiers died as well.

Those men gave their lives to keep Europe free, and now Europe is trying to take over the rest of the world.

Not very smart.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nathan Blue

Stalin was Hitler’s ally, until it suited him not to be. “Keeping Europe free” was not Joseph Stalin’s priority.

Karine Jean-Pierre Can’t Explain Why Biden Invoked the Defense Production Act for Solar Panel Manufacturing (

They took thier own security for granted what armies do they have what great tanks, planes or devices have they?
How much are they kicking in for their own security?
Trump warned them. They laughed. They have no resources did not prepare.
The Nazi regime fought Russia for 3 years before D-Day it took American resources massive war machine and rationing at home.
Green weenies allowed their countries to be invaded and support north African leeches emptying their coffers, for what? Will the refugees fight for their new homeland or like they did before run away leaving women and children behind?
Dont fret you have a 40 year veteran of DC battlefield in charge with his rainbow warriors. He has tapped out our energy reserves, wasted trillions on the Fauchi lie. Regulated rare earth minerals and oil into non production.
Got his 10% somewhere in a secret bank account off shore. The gave our secret technology and press to China. The Ukraine cash is his final chance to make his buck and the Eurotrash rake it in. Zelenshy and his Oligarch pals feather their nests not in Ukraine but also off shore.
We are just conspiracy theorists nuts really. But will be blamed because we warned you.

Here are answers to your questions, although there’s no mention of “devices”:

https://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-25-most-powerful-militaries-in-europe-2018-11#14-norway-overall-ranking-36-12

“I really hope no one pays you to troll. You suck at this.”

I love the way you set that up as a reply to your own comment.

Nice one, bro.

I hope you’re not getting paid to troll.

You suck at this.

“The USA has been going it alone, and paying for the lifestyle of Europe, since WWII.”

Then why on Earth did you question my use of the phrase “go it alone”?

Can you defined what “going it alone” actually means…to you, at least?

“Go alone” on what? What do you even mean by that?

The USA has been going it alone, and paying for the lifestyle of Europe, since WWII.

Deflection. You did something stupid, and now you’re trying to turn it around and make it about me. Try again.

Projection. You ask idiot questions, ignore what is said, then continue to circle the drain of your intelligence as you pretend to claim some kind of weak “victory.”

I’d say “try again,” you should really stop, dude. I feel bad for you at this point. It’s like beating a retard.

And you’re the retard.

(Your next comment: “So you admit to beating people with disabilities?”)

You are an absolute disgrace to American discourse.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nathan Blue

Are you triggered, snowflake? You sound triggered.

Go back to twitter.

Trump was holding NATO accountable, and getting us out of paying for other countries. The US subsidized nearly every country on the planet. Most of Europe enjoys their famous “free” healthcare at the expense of the US.

Trump said Nato has to pay, and Trump was getting better trade with China.

He was merely doing what Americans wanted and believed, and those who had been sucking us dry for years didn’t like it.

Then Covid was released, then their paid politicians lied more, then a rigged election, then an illegal regime change with the J6 false flag.

Europe should be left to fight off the monster they created, Putin, on their own.

Russia as a nation, and not just Putin, has been building for this moment for quite some time.