“A wall, in my view, is an immorality. It’s the least effective way to protect the border and the most costly. I can’t think of any reason why anyone would think it’s a good idea — unless this has something to do with something else,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi recently explained. Many other Democrats — almost all of them, in fact — claim to have, in addition to other reasons, some moral qualm about a border wall.
Whether or not the United States needs a wall — or even a pointed, slanted steel fence, for that matter — is a legitimate point of debate. I’m pretty ambivalent about the prospects of a barrier myself, and I oppose any unilateral emergency measures that allow government to more easily take private land to make it happen. But the Democrats’ blanket opposition to any “wall” has a number of logical inconsistencies that expose a different kind of agenda.
For one thing, is a wall really the “least” effective way to protect the border? I keep hearing Democrats offering this talking point on cable news without pushback. I’m not sure our factchecking guardians have jumped on this debatable contention, but I suspect there are numerous less effective ways to secure the southern border than putting up a giant partition. No rational person really believes that high vertical structures wouldn’t, to some extent, inhibit the movement of people.
It is true, as President Trump has claimed, that Israel’s security fence, erected after a deadly terror campaign against civilians in the early 2000s, has been effective. There was an immediate and precipitous drop in terror attacks inside Israel. And, as The New Yorker recently reported, “a razor-wire electric fence” along the border in Szeged, Hungary was all that was needed to stop refugees from flooding into the country. The European Union was angered that the Hungarians built the wall because it worked.
So it’s reasonable to believe that many Democrats simply don’t want a new wall because walls stop illegal immigration. They just won’t say the words yet. Take, for example, Rep. Adam Smith, the new chair of the House Armed Services Committee, who, echoing many other Democrats, claims that Trump’s campaign for a border wall is rooted in “xenophobia and racism.”
Even if we conceded for argument’s sake that the person driving this debate is xenophobic and racist, a barrier is meant to keep people from illegally entering the country from Mexico and Central America. Our immigration debate is ostensibly about the best way to secure our border and keep people — on both sides — safe.
How can one inanimate border fortification be more racist than another? Does Smith believe it’s functionally more racist to preemptively dissuade illegal immigrants from illegally crossing the border with a wall than to allow them to wander around in deserts and wilderness looking for water on their own?
Another Democrat, Rep. Eric Swalwell, recently offered what I am told is a non-parody tweet, which read, “’Mr. Gorbachev, put up a wall.’ Said no President.” It is true that when socialists run a country they typically are forced to build walls to keep people inside. It’s something Swalwell might keep in mind when he votes. It’s also, and unfortunately, true that the Berlin Wall was effective. Perhaps Swalwell is claiming that the physical structure, aesthetically speaking, sends an ugly message.
Despite the preoccupation with Trump, though, the idea of a wall on the southern border is neither new nor revolutionary. A wall was once a mainstream position that most of the Democratic Party leadership supported to various extents. It was one of the few items that could garner any consensus. Many politicians who’ve voted for walls are still serving in Congress today. As far as I can tell, no one with access has asked Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer when and why a wall became immoral.
That’s easy. Illegal immigration is a tenet in their religion of weakening and taking power and a wall would be blasphemy.
No. The proven least effective way to protect the border (or accomplish anything, it seems) is to expect Democrats to do it or assist anyone else in doing it.
Who is hurt?
Legal Hispanics, whether citizens born here, naturalized citizens or legal aliens with work permits, are enjoying the BEST employment numbers in history under Pres Trump.
What will hurt them?
Illegal aliens willing to take their jobs for less!
Is it “racist” to help ALL America’s workers to have more options for work at better pay?
I think Dems want us to only listen to them.
The descent into bubbling piles of insanity, the response of the democrats saying Trumps facts were basically false, he didn’t make them up they came from DHS from border security. Yes some land will be taken from some who do not want a fence, to bad land is taken for much less important structures. Others will be glad not to find dead bodies with birds pecking out the eyes littering the land. Walls fences barriers work they are proven technology, perhaps older than the wheel. We wont let kids into school without immunization, we dont get on a plane without being searched, we put up fences to keep a cow from wandering into traffic or walls to block light and noise from highways bothering residence. Congress has promised a fence at the border since Reagan era, just reopen the government and then we will talk, talk talk.
No talk, Mr. President keep your oath and campaign promise they are exposing themselves as to how this to them is simple resistance to keep you from keeping another promise.
http://www.promiseskept.com
They never keep their promises to people, never take their oath seriously.
Schumer – Albany, NY
Phone: (518) 431-4070
New York, NY
Phone: (212) 486-4430
Syracuse, NY
Phone: (315) 423-5471
Pelosi – San Francisco, CA
phone: (415) 556-4862
Washington, DC
phone: (202) 225-4965
The newest meme of the left is “there is no crisis. It’s manufactured.” Funny, there was non-stop coverage of crowded detention centers, babies being wrested from the arms of parents… or someone, sick children dying. Crisis? Not a crisis?
When the left organized the “caravan” (invasion) and began herding it north, the left kept this information under wraps. The hoard started at 10,000 and grew to 14,000 or more, but this was not newsworthy. The part of it split off and 6,000 hit the wall, so to speak, in Tijuana. Not news, nothing to see here, go to your homes. THEN teargas was fired… OH NO!! We used teargas on women and children!! The problem was, it was hard to show the “innocent” women and children running BACK AWAY FROM THE BORDER to evade the teargas without showing the thousands of people around them. But, liberals being not the smartest of people, only accepted what they were told… no crisis, just some good old boys going out and teargassing children.
A humanitarian cris… er, “matter” developed in Tijuana as the 6 thousand who were scheduled to be wandering around the US by then found themselves stranded in detention centers, living in tents and walking around in their own wastes. Lights! Action! Cameras! But, not a crisis. Not massed herds of illegal immigrants trying to storm our borders… oh, mercy no. Just people that happen to be not going where they want to go… or something. Not a crisis, though.
Military units were required to back up Border Patrol and assure those massed to swarm our border did not get across, but this was unnecessary, according to the left (which includes the media). Yet, the 14,000 mostly remains in the best place possible; NOT HERE.
Now, the crisis is identified. It IS real. It IS harmful. The crisis is that the American people have to depend upon Democrats to forget what benefits THEM and their quest to Californicate the entire nation. We’re in real trouble.
The only reason the wall is immoral is because it blocks off a lot of future democratic voters and supporters that means fewer to vote for the democrats and Mirco-Brained liberal democrats
Time has written transcripts of both the Presidents speech and the Democrats rebut along with expected misleading comments.
http://time.com/5497569/donald-trump-oval-office-address-transcript/
Unfortunately CSPAN did not cover his speech, so the Lead in to the address was pictures of our parks trash cans overflowing. Solution: States pick up the slack, they have long been benefited by the tourist dollars that these parks draw. Else the states close the way to these parks.
Even WAPO gives the win to the President in last nights exchange, why Chuckie had air time he has no purse strings.
They accused Trump of using fear, they do fear facts. FACT the bipartisan “solutions” do not include funding for a physical barrier.
@kitt: https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/fact-checking-5-trumps-claims-border-speech?fbclid=IwAR3ud2xsZHcaZK2KmEbGSEyWYRJxL_gTmqOhh9xeKyVkFL2qYwW7SI-P1pk
Since there is no crisis, there are no people fleeing violence and wanting to come here. So, there is no reason to allow them into the country unless they enter legally.
@Deplorable Me: The boobsy twins are being baked on SM today, stiff not genuine, no emotion, memes GALORE my fave so far has Nancy as the dead terrorist ventriloquist dummy.
Don Jr. on Instagram—“You know why you can enjoy a day at the zoo? Because walls work,”
Trophy hunter Jr. really said that.
@Richard Wheeler: Wow that makes me change my mind on the steel barrier for sure. We can just shoot them with that logic.
@Richard Wheeler: And, it’s really true. You know why Pelosi, Hillary and Obama have walls? Because walls work. You know why they all supported border walls and security in the past? Because walls work. You know why the wall was never completed and is opposed by Democrats now? Because walls work.
@kitt: Don’t expect you or DT to change your minds on WALL er steel barrier–Don’t expect Dems to change their minds.
Where does that leave us–and the unpaid workers who adore Trump?
Jr NO WORRIES I’m going on African Safari with Newsom’s EX. Daddy says I can bring home a couple of lion’s heads to hang on my wall and WH wall. Like Daddy I skipped military service but I sure get off shooting defenseless animals for sport. Kimberly says it makes me manly.
@Richard Wheeler:
I gave you an example of how the private sector is helping by honoring the bills of those workers. You chose to ignore it.
Tell us, how many illegals do you intend to take in and be financial responsible for?
Your hypocrisy knows no limits, does it, Wheeler? If military service is so damn important to you, why did you vote for Clinton, Obama and Bernie Sanders? Why? Because you are a Trumphater, pure and simple. And a hypocrite.
@Richard Wheeler: The Democrats dont care about helping these people why should I? They say this is manufactured what is manufactured is their oath of office.
You know I am not in favor of hunting for pure sport you can shoot targets and skeet for sport, rich people do weird shit for kicks, like shoot drugs into Black escorts and go to private islands to rape children.
Frankly given the choice the giraffe is staring back at me through glass eyes, I could donate the meat to the local tribe.
@Richard Wheeler: I guess that leaves government workers unpaid and the border open, vulnerable and undefended. All courtesy of Chuckie Schumer.
How or what Jr. hunts doesn’t change the fact that he was totally correct. Walls serve a definite purpose and they are effective.
Nancy Chuck and Donald should step back and let Texas Repub Congressman Hurd take a leadership role in resolving this impasse—He makes complete sense.
Low energy Trump and stiff as bricks Nancy and Chuck should have stayed home last night.
Anybody who shoots and beheads defenseless animals is a true POS.
@Richard Wheeler: Pelosi has cut off any thought of compromise. Democrats suggest Trump reopen the government and then they can talk yet Nancy says not a dollar for border security. So, once again, Democrats are lying. How can anyone think the Republicans can negotiate and compromise with Democrats? They lie.
Schumer had the bill in his hand that had he only supported it, the government would not be closed. He shut it down for $5 billion. Now Nancy has slammed the door on anyone imagining that any real negotiation or compromise is possible; their intent is, once again, trick the Republicans into agreeing to reopen the government expecting honest talks. Nancy has made sure the government STAYS closed until border security is provided.
Nice work, Democrats.
@Richard Wheeler: Nancy Balogna should never have seized the gavel back. She can no longer hardly be in public without an escort to show her the way, and brief her on he subject. She reminds me of Gollum
@kitt:Why the Democrats cling to that decrepit hag is unimaginable. She is a stain.
Forget the gang of 3 What do you Texans and cheese head think of Texas Repub Hurd who actually represents large number of people who live on the border?
He makes sense
@Richard Wheeler: So everyone who appears on Morning Joe is a genius? Fine anyone willing to really negotiate in good faith, but no wall the non essential remain on leave.
Bring the 5.7 billion in small unmarked bills. 🙂
@Richard Wheeler:
Will Hurd just proved he is disloyal. There was a major push from the Republican Party of Texas to provide him with money and volunteers to win his last election. Even with more help than any other Texas Congressman got, he won by less than 1%.
He will not win again unless he switches parties (and then he will be defeated in the primary by a Hispanic) which I fully expect him to do
You should care as much about the slaughter of unborn babies. Instead, you vote for those that support that slaughter. What is the difference between a defenseless animal and a defenseless infant child?
@kitt: I’ve never watched Morning Joe—any good? Your thoughts on Texas Repub Will Hurd.
Seems to me a voice of reason.–he represents the border
I personally oppose abortion and favor adoption–made easier. I respect a woman’s right after counseling about adoption alternative.
@Richard Wheeler: He doesn’t. He didn’t support the wall.
@Richard Wheeler: Just looked this guy up and found he was doing the rounds on cable news, put that together with your mockingbird attitude, I know my representatives, dont have a whole lot of others memorized lol he has an F an F grade a disgusting 30 liberty score, means he is a democrat wearing a republican tie.
@Deplorable Me: Scoop Not everyone supports the wall—-almost all Dems and a significant number of Repubs and Indies OPPOSE–ABOUT 57% currently
In addition a significant majority of Americans believe that Trump owns the shutdown—to his credit he agrees with that.
@Richard Wheeler: Only 12 percent of voters polled said that the situation at the border is neither a crisis nor a problem. But there is no ground for the Dems to give in on 5 billion for the wall.
Barry shut down the government 17 days for the rip off AHCA which we had to pass to find out what was in it. How much was stolen from the taxpayers for the crappy website? Over 1 billion and It estimated that the total net cost of the insurance coverage provisions of the law would be $1.35 trillion over 10 years, from 2016 through 2025.
We will actually SAVE money with the wall.
@Richard Wheeler: Scoop: Schumer supported a wall. Pelosi supported a wall. Obama supported a wall. Hillary supported a wall. A majority of Democrats in Congress supported a wall. But because Trump is President and will BUILD the wall… now they oppose it.
Everywhere a wall has gone up along our border, it has worked. Texas, Arizona and California has had tremendous success using walls to greatly, effectively and cheaply restrict illegal immigration. Only Democrat politics now stands in the way of securing the entire border.
That opinion about the shutdown is turning and turning quickly. The trend is heading in Trump’s favor. The longer this Schumer shutdown goes, to worse it is for Democrats.
Leftists in Honduras are organizing another “caravan”, this one larger than the other. But, there is no crisis, so we should not allow any of them in… right?
The military will have to be mobilized to the border again to make sure these pawns herded to our border are not forced through. Democrats will again whine about the COST of this mobilization but will not address their sole responsibility for it and the necessity.
Can republicans explain how this is worth four million dollars per mile?
@Greg: In 2017, FAIR’s “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers” report put the total cost of illegal immigration at $135 billion a year, while claiming undocumented immigrants paid only $19 billion a year in taxes.
33,750 miles of border could be built in 1 year for the same amount, any other stupid questions?
Child trafficking, criminals, terrorists we cant afford to house the world we are broke.
Without endless cheap labor the evil corporations would need to compete and wages for the poorest would go up benefit packages would be offered to retain those employees. More people would get off entitlements allowing transfer of that money to our debt.
@Greg: Just think… if Democrats would simply honor their oath of office and defend this nation instead of supporting illegal immigrants, building a wall might not even be necessary. But, alas, Democrats prefer to do what damages this nation and endangers its citizens instead of their JOBS. And YOU support them.
Because it’s a sin to flush taxpayer dollars down the toilet? Read all about it: One-hundred-dollar saw defeats billion-dollar wall…
Trump’s ‘virtually inpenetrable’ Mexico border wall is easy to cut with $100 saw from hardware store
And I thought the problem would be $150 aluminum ladders.
@Greg: I notice the article is all about speculation. Nothing else. But, keep trying. You won’t be buying any 40′ ladders for $150. And you’ll need two and be able to hoist one over the wall and set it up on the other side. All while the authorities are on the way.
@Greg: Did you read the entire article?
Current and former CBP officials confirmed that there have been cutting breaches, but they said the new bollard system remains far superior and more formidable than any previous design.
New bollard design makes the smugglers’ task significantly more difficult. Other Homeland Security officials note that the narrow gap created by a cut bollard permits only one person to pass through at a time, making it more difficult for large groups of migrants or smugglers to cross.
Some of the damage has happened in areas where construction crews have yet to complete the installation of electronic sensors that, once operational, will more quickly detect the vibrations that sawing produces on the bollards, the officials said.
Barry said he had a complete wall what are you bitchin about
In his speech in El Paso on immigration reform on May 10, 2011, President Obama declared that the fence along the border with Mexico is “now basically complete.”
His immigration reform as real as his border fence. what a lying asshole.
Like you, 150 bucks gets a 20 foot ladder at best.
@kitt: There is a very simple solution. Just post signs designating the area along the wall “Saw Free Zone” and have a background check for those saws. Common sense saw control will resolve it.
@kitt: Your language has become even more vile than Trumps—seems to be a badge of honor worn proudly by Trumpeteers
Sickening and classless have become today’s brand of Republicans
It won’t be the Dems that disappear–it will be this 4 year aberration known as Trumpism.
History will not treat these 4 years kindly.
@kitt, #34:
Sorry, Señora. Not if you’re shopping for your ladder in Mexico. This fine 27-foot aluminum extension ladder will set you back $1,919.89 in Mexico—which is pesos (Mex$), not U.S. dollars. At the current rate of exchange that works out to only 100 dollars and 46 cents. Fantástico!
This is cheaper than a heavy duty reciprocating saw, which in Mexico might set you back Mex$2,184.54, or $114.30 US. You would also have to buy carbide saw blades, which could set you back another 10 or 15 bucks.
@Richard Wheeler: Yeah, kitt. Why can’t you be classy like the people that suggest shooting, beheading, stabbing, raping or blowing up the President of the United States simply because he kept the biggest criminal to have ever run for the office out of the White House? Why can’t you be classy like those that support doxxing and threatening kids for the crime of wearing a cap they don’t like? Why can’t you show the kind of class it takes to attack a person trying to have a meal by screaming obscenities and threats at them? Why don’t you have the class to cheer on a violent, fascist political violence spreading gang of thugs?
Gee, kitt… you are sure a disappointment.
@Greg:
Well, that’s just wonderful. That’ll get you about halfway up. The wall is 30′. A 27′ ladder is the extended length, not the height you can reach; it has to be set at an angle to be able to climb up it. You’re going to need to lug TWO 40′ ladders in order to get to the top, then down to the ground on the other side. Provided you don’t fall off and die.
Have you ever cut .25″ thick steel with a reciprocating saw? First, make sure you have your hearing protection on. Though there will be sensors installed along the wall, those won’t be necessary when someone goes after that wall with a saw. Second, they had better bring a wheelbarrow full of blades, because you go through them rapidly. And batteries, too, unless they are lugging a generator with them.
Also, and most importantly, the wall prevents thousands from simply walking across our border. THIS is why you Democrats hate it; for you, it’s voter suppression.
But, that’s reality, not the fantasy-based world of negativity liberals life in.
Someone has never wondered what the term “hook and ladder” refers to.
As to fantasy proneness:
@Greg:
Then just hoist and drop the rent a a kid over the top Fantástico! but very difficult to recycle it. so you will extend your ladder lift it up and hook it to?
Could you do a you tube video to demonstrate Im sure it will go viral under ultimate fails.
@Richard Wheeler: So sorry if I injured your widdle prancing snowflake sensibilities, it has long been established that Barry was a lying asshole. What has not been established is why they passed this? https://www.congress.gov/109/plaws/publ367/PLAW-109publ367.pdf
Why Barry LIED about mission accomplished.
@Greg: If you’ve never used or climbed a ladder, just say so.
@KITT, #40:
It’s probably more convenient just to leave ladders hanging flat against the southern side of the wall, where they might escape notice for weeks or months. Maybe spray paint them the same color as the wall.
@Deplorable Me, #41:
If you’ve never figured out how to ingeniously defeat an obstacle or solve a problem with a very simple solution, admit that. Getting over a wall is not a problem in quantum physics. Hooks and rope ladders are also fairly obvious. They’re even cheaper than extension ladders.
@Greg: You still have not commented on the subject is that a problem in quantum physics?
Explain why its immoral.
I started off by suggesting why it might be immoral in #32. Maybe it isn’t. Maybe flushing billions of taxpayer dollars down a toilet is only stupid.
@Greg: I’ve done that numerous times. If you think you or some wetbacks are smarter than the people that devised the wall, you are a special kind of idiot. I’ve shown you the practical flaws in your “simple” solution to the wall but you lack the knowledge to understand them. That’s not my problem to solve, thank God.
Walls are effective everywhere they are constructed. Even the flimsy, crappy iteration we’re replacing was successful. The stupid waste of money is spending $200 billion a year to subsidize illegal immigration. But you lust after their votes.
@Deplorable Me: I dont know about you but I will feel better having a true double fence between the USA and a failed State run by vicious, murdering cartels. Luring central Americans through Mexicos death and rape corridors with open borders, free stuff and flush toilets just aint right.
@kitt: Walls work. That fact is indisputable. If we reinforce the wall with armed agents and interdict any attempted crossings, capturing those engineering the breaches, we will greatly reduce illegal crossings. Then all we have to solve is Democrats herding them in by the tens of thousands.
I guess by Greg’s argument, if a gun control law doesn’t stop 100% of the gun crimes, it is an immoral, stupid waste of time and money. Of course, public safety is in no way the goal of the Democrat’s gun control agenda.