Here we go again, Obama Rapture Redux:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyWIcmBYUBc[/youtube]
Amazing.
Meanwhile Obama and company are all over the airwaves calling for tax hikes on the rich because a few billion will fix everything,
I’m simply staggered at the number of things that raising taxes on the rich is now supposed to fix. A partial list: Our crumbling roads, our cracked bridges, our decaying electrical grid, our failing schools, our bankrupt entitlements, our reliance on fossil fuels, and our over-extended public pensions.
But why will billions more dollars succeed when trillions of dollars have failed? We pour more money into schools, yet educational outcomes don’t improve. We wage a “war on poverty” more expensive than any actual war and yet poverty not only persists but remains stubbornly high. We pump almost a trillion dollars into allegedly shovel-ready “stimulus” only to realize that “shovel-ready” apparently doesn’t mean what we think it means, and even the most modest interstate expansions take longer to complete than, say, the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam — and cost almost as much
I read the likes of Kristof, and I want to shout to the heavens: “We can give you everything you ask, and it won’t work!” The Left misunderstands conservatives when it believes the argument over tax rates is an argument about greed — that wealthier Americans simply want to grab all the money we can. In fact, many of the top 5 percent are among the most generous people in the world; they just tend to give their money to charities that actually produce results.
Leaving aside — for the moment — the increasingly inverse correlation between taxation and individual liberty (a crucial consideration all its own), we conservatives look at the vast bureaucratic beast with a sense of utter futility. We opt out of government projects and seek personal independence in part because we see government fail time and again — and not for lack of resources.
So what should we do? Should we just give in? Many on the right are throwing in the towel and saying we just should let them raise taxes. But when will it stop?
It won’t because the Democrats will continue to spend, so they then can continue to give more free stuff, and get the votes from those raised on the public teat. And then where will find ourselves? Take a look at Greece to see the answer.
Can we hold them off in the long run? Who knows. But it’s the principal of the thing. They won’t stop at just the rich….they won’t stop until we are taxed into oblivion because they believe more free stuff equals more votes, which means they stay in power.
Freedom and liberty means we control our own money, our own lives. Government doesn’t know how to spend my money better than I do, as history has proven over and over again.
So we fight, we go over the cliff, and according to this poll we will still be blamed. Maybe we are destined for collapse, as Rome did, but I’m not going down without a fight and I don’t want my party to go down without a fight either.
Meanwhile Harry Reid wants to get rid of the filibuster….no way, no how:
Here’s what Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is considering: banning filibusters used to prevent debate from even starting and House-Senate conference committees from ever meeting. He also may make filibusters become actual filibusters — to force senators to carry out the nonstop, talkathon sessions.
Republicans are threatening even greater retaliation if Reid uses a move rarely used by Senate majorities: changing the chamber’s precedent by 51 votes, rather than the usual 67 votes it takes to overhaul the rules.
“I think the backlash will be severe,” Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), the conservative firebrand, said sternly. “If you take away minority rights, which is what you’re doing because you’re an ineffective leader, you’ll destroy the place. And if you destroy the place, we’ll do what we have to do to fight back.”
“It will shut down the Senate,” the incoming Senate GOP whip, Texas Sen. John Cornyn, told POLITICO. “It’s such an abuse of power.”
Judicial and executive appointments are way too important to give up without a fight.
But it seems many Republicans are giving up on taxes so I wouldn’t be surprised if all this bluster from Coburn and Cornyn is just that, bluster.
Sigh…
See author page
Pravda isn’t holding back on the deification, . . . .
Ouch!
David French wrote and you quoted him:
I’ve been learning quite a bit more about Utah as we are moving there within the next 6 months.
I was just there over the Thanksgiving weekend.
Utah went 100% for Romney, not one precinct went Obama.
CRUMBLING ROADS & CRACKED BRIDGES:
Utah’s roads and bridges are FAR better than California’s despite the fact that CA only has rain where I live while Utah has rain, hail and snow!
In Utah the speed limit is up to 80!
Yup, faster than I even wanted to go!
And when I did get up to 80 I was being passed by cars and big rigs!
FAILING SCHOOLS:
Utah has smart youth who are outgoing and open, friendly and non-age-discriminatory despite the fact that the Utah public school system spends DEAD LAST per pupil for education!
BANKRUPT ENTITLEMENTS:
Utah has a medical insurance exchange that is the best in the nation (although it does NOT qualify under ObamaCare).
As to reliance on fossil fuels, in CA we have laws against using fireplaces.
BUT we also have a huge criminal element in that regard.
As I drove back into the Los Angeles basin it was full of smoke….not smog….smoke ….from the illegal use of thousands of fireplaces.
In Utah people are very respectful of what few laws they have.
As a result their air pollution problem (yes they have a basin with Salt Lake City at the north end) is under control even on the coldest night.
I’m still on a learning curve about the electrical grid, the pensions for public employees and such.
But filling the tank was FAR cheaper than in CA.
We left with a full tank that cost us $51.
We gassed up and filled it just the same amount in Utah for just $39.
So, all I’m saying is: money is NOT the answer.
Giving more money to Obama is not going to fix any of America’s major problems.
LOOK at what he’s done with taxpayers’ money:
It’s really very simple: It won’t be possible to convince 90 percent of Americans to accept necessary spending cuts affecting them personally, unless the wealthiest are also seen to be making some personal sacrifice. This is the political reality of the situation.
Sad comment, Greg.
When in reality (you wouldn’t know about that, though) even a slight lowering of the RATE of GROWTH in ANY gov’t handout program is met with screams.
Although Long Beach is 11% black its businesses are less than 1% black-owned.
Try coming here and using the ”logic” that ”the rich are paying MORE, so YOU should accept getting less,” with our black population of well over 50,000.
I dare you.
You would not survive to get back to your car!
Just let them raise the taxes on the rich because I am so sick of hearing it already and when they fall flat on their faces they will have no one to blame but themselves…..
@Nan G:
The difference is that Utah is not controlled by the unions, be they the Teacher’s Union, the Teamsters, the Public Employee’s Union, et al. And people in Utah still remember their history when the settlers first arrived and how hard they worked to build a state out of once wild land.
Not all states are like California where they have turned into nothing but little tip pot dictatorships that think the political elite have a right to take from the productive and give to the non-productive simply to garner votes.
It seems clear that Democrats like Harry Reid will only give token spending reductions, most likely on projects that were already canceled. If that’s all Obama and the Democratic leaders offer, than Republicans should “compromise” and then only vote “present” on the bill. That way when the next credit reduction comes and the deficit continues to rise wages stay stagnate and unemployment continues, , the Democrats and Obama will own it lock stock and barrel.
Ditto
hi,
when a GOVERNMENT is a big spender,
IT’S not wise to give him more tax money, and the RICH know that,
they did not become rich by over spending, and if they could depend
on the GOVERNMENT to use their money wisely, they would participate,
but they prefer now to give on their own charity because they have chosen them to be spending their money with the good sense of not wasting one penny,
bye
Many on the left are convinced the so called rich aren’t paying enough to the government. So how much is enough? Already they pay the lions share of federal taxes but it’s not enough according to them. Obama has many convinced they aren’t paying their fair share. When in fact they pay more than their share. Buffet could easily pay more but he structures his income to avoid it. Buffet has no regular salary so raising the top tax rate to 39.6 won’t affect him.
Obama won on cultivating the low information voter by employing class warfare. Those will be the first ones hurt when gov’t can’t keep its promises.
@Greg:
There won’t be any spending cuts. There are never any spending cuts. And personally, I’d like to know about the spending cuts that are going to affect me personally. Maybe it’s some of these, but I didn’t see the benefits:
I can hear liberals already saying this is just a drop in the bucket, that we shouldn’t worry about such small expenditures; all the while they have no problem taking five, ten, twenty thousand dollars from productive citizens to pay for this stupidity. Tom Coburn has identified $18 billion in obvious waste for 2012 alone. That is not chump change. When you take money from people that have earned it and spend it in stupid, frivolous ways, you have no right to be upset when the don’t want to give more.
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ContentRecord_id=3b872d11-b6b5-4f72-9a0f-f95c79c99b6f&ContentType_id=d741b7a7-7863-4223-9904-8cb9378aa03a&Group_id=7a55cb96-4639-4dac-8c0c-99a4a227bd3a
Aqua
yes that sound to me as all incredible waste of money,
some I suspect are cover for their own expanses they would not want their names on,
yes corruption, and those pile of billions send to foreigners who end up in ALQAEDA’s pockets,
and OBAMA is quick to give money abroad, while AMERICANS are squeezing their intake of money,
at the end of the week, when they look at their budget made up for months ahead,
while the WHITE HOUSE do not budget any time and on anything,
we have learned first hand of their incredible waste, and they have the culot to lecture AMERICANS TO LEARN TO MANAGE THEIR MONEY.
how more arrogant can they be?
bye
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Ms. Bees, America is going to be just fine. Winston Churchill said Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing; after they have exhausted all other possibilities. Like Larry said earlier, now is the time to be with family and enjoy the holidays. I’m no great poet like Skooks, so I’ll leave you with one of my favorites from Chief Tecumseh, (a personal hero).
Aqua
it’s nice advices, it also could be looked at a deathwish to send
to another person you want out of your life
but said in classy well manners, only you can express,
it might be look out of place in a BLOG, where exchanges are needed to promote the best to get in power to the eyes of the ignorants looking for the right person to lead,
because in our days deceit is so publicize, while truth is taking a back seat from the shouts,
thank you, I must say
it’was very poetic
@Mully, #9:
For some odd reason, democrats seem to believe that taxes should be collected primarily from those who have the means with which to pay them, and that there should be a relationship between the amount of taxes one is require to pay and the degree to which one reaps benefits from participation in the national economy.
The richest are paying a lion’s share because they’re reaping a lion’s share of benefits and privileges. You’d think they’d be smart enough to figure out that it’s to their own benefit more than anyone else’s to maintain stability of the system that has allowed them to prosper to such a degree.
Maybe that question should be directed to the wealthiest, before addressing it to the middle class, the working class, and the poor.
Thanks Aqua #12 Beautiful message from Chief Tecumseh. I’ll read more about him.
IF Obama really is capable of doing his JOB he needs to stop campaigning for racial and class warfare and go meet with members of Congress UNTIL he arrives at a workable deal.
All this going to the public is a waste of time.
Obama needs to do his JOB.
@Aqua, #10:
Such expenditures are a drop in the bucket, though that’s no reason not to eliminate them. My guess is that the blame for such wasteful spending belongs equally to both parties. I don’t know how it can be fixed, except through serious campaign funding reform. The problem is that any such reform would have to be undertaken by the same foxes that guard the hen house.
I think the 90 percent will eventually be personally affected through reductions in Social Security benefits, Medicare benefits, and Medicaid spending. Also, I expect tax increases of some degree will likely apply to everyone. The deficit and debt problem has become so enormous that any genuine fix will have some adverse effect on nearly everyone. The only reason anyone will agree to do it is because the increasingly obvious consequences of not doing it would be even worse.
IF the ”fiscal cliff” happens the lowest income earners would see their marginal tax rates rise at the fastest rate
If you EARN $10,000 or less your new taxes will be 64.4% higher than they are now.
If you EARN between $10,001-$20,000 your new taxes will be 26.5% higher.
BUT then it goes up more slowly.
Then at $75,001-$100,000 EARNINGS your new taxes will be 16.7% higher.
Then another slow portion.
Then at $500,001-$1,000,000 it goes up 26.2% higher.
Millionaires EARNING more than $1 million only pay an additional 16.4%.
(ODD)
Graph.
From “Credit Suisse Presents 13 Must-See Charts On Taxes, Spending, And The Fiscal Cliff.”
The charts ignore the 47% of Americans who pay no federal income tax at all.
GREG
do you forget what the “RICH” give to CHARITIES ORGANIZATIONS ALL OVER THE USA?
DO YOU TAKE THE “RICH” FOR MEAN AND SELFISH PEOPLE LIKE OBAMA IS DESCRIBING THEM?
he want more from them because he want the poor to know that only him OBAMA IS GIVING TO THEM,
SO THEY VOTE FOR HIM AS IT HAPPENED NOVEMBER 6,
LET THEM KNOW that he doesn’t give a penny from his pocket to them,no ,
what he give them is the PEOPLE’S MONEY HE COLLECT, this must be told to all who get a GOVERNMENT CHECK, SO THEY DON’T LISTEN TO OBAMA ATTACKING THE “RICH”
and run in the street whenever he call on them to assemble to give a show of belong to OBAMA because he pay for my gaz, and my phone and my stamp and my check,
OBAMA DOESN’T TAKE NOTHING ON HIS MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE,
HE DOESN’T GIVE A HOOF ABOUT YOU ALL WHO SUFFER AND HURT AND STRUGGLE,
NO, obama just spend the money from the worker and the small business who work 20 hours so the welfare get their checks at the same time every months, and the “RICH” DOES THE SAME,
OTHERWISE YOU ALL WHO NEED A CHECK WOULD NOT HAVE IT AND SURE NOT DON’T DEPEND ON OBAMA TO GIVE YOU SOME,
SO ALL THIS IS TO THE POOR TO KNOW WHERE THE HELP COME FROM, IT’S TIME TO INFORM YOU,
SO YOU CAN THANK THE RIGHT PEOPLE AROUND YOU, INSTEAD
OF TAKING OBAMA AS YOUR savior which he is not.
and pray for the “RICH” to be always rich,they are your benefactors, they with the small business create jobs
not OBAMA, HE’S NO GOOD FOR THEM INSTEAD HE DISCOURAGE THEM, HE SHOULD THANK THEM FOR PAYING
HIS SALARY ALSO,
first of all your correct , there will be no spending cuts of any form. second : What the democrats really want when they speak of taxing the income of the rich…is not the income…what they want is to tax the total assets of the rich ….did you catch that , the assets not the income…so where as taxing the income of the rich woould only last a few days…taxing the total assets would really be a number…think about it.
@Greg:
I don’t think it needs to be done through campaign funding reform. This isn’t about democrats and republicans, liberal and conservative, or left and right. It’s about right and wrong. Instead of worry about campaign funding reform, we might just want to take baby steps and have the Senate pass a budget so the congress can go to conference and present the President with a real budget. Prior to passing a budget, they can actually hold hearings to find out why we have all this wasteful spending. According to the GAO, we waste over $200 billion a year, a year on duplicitous programs. To wit:
80 federal programs to improve teacher quality.
80 programs to help the disadvantaged with transportation.
100 different programs to fund highway and rail projects.
15 different agencies overseeing food-safety laws
20 separate programs to help the homeless
80 programs for economic development
That is just part of the list. That’s $2 Trillion over 10 years. We may very well need to raise taxes. And I am on the record agreeing with Larry that we should always raise taxes in time of war. If we’re going to go to war, we should pay for it. But I think we can come together as Americans, not democrats and republican, and agree that both sides on the Hill need to spend every penny wisely.
We also need to pass a law, an amendment would be better, stating that congress can pass no law that excludes itself. Congress is getting way richer than the rest of the country by excluding itself from the very laws it requires us to follow. Both sides are guilty of this and of frivolous spending.
**ETA: A republican senator, (that’s republican senator) is also calling out the DoD on their waste. The report states the DoD could save $70 billion over 10 years without cutting a single Army or Marine combat unit, Navy ship, or Air Force jet. This is Tom Coburn again. I think it’s time we start listening to this man.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/11/dod-wastes-billions-on-non-military-projects/
@James Raider: I guess he didn’t get the message yesterday: Pravda.ru is an online network not associated with Pravda—look it up and see. But this is how rumors get spread of the Conservative Entertainment Complex.
@Greg:
Again the wealthiest do pay more than anyone else. Yet you cannot give a simple answer how much is enough. What are these government benefits you refer to that the wealthy reap the most benefit from? Perhaps working hard and investing wisely pays off. So if the tax rate goes to 39.6 what does it solve? It does not pay down one penny of debt. Not one.
You believe taxes should be collected from those who can well afford to pay them, they already do. Should not everyone have some skin the game? You seem to prefer a system that enslaves people by doling out gov’t benefits which keep the cycle of poverty going only for the benefit of the political class to use them for votes every four years by installing in them a fear they’ll lose those benefits if they vote otherwise. How does this raise up the poor from their meager government instituted poverty? In the last four years we’ve seen the expansion of the welfare state by a dramatic degree. How will taxing the rich more solve this? The political class you support only want to expand this group of dependents to keep and expand their own political power.
For those who work hard and make something of themselves you feel that gives license for the government to pick their pockets at will. You cannot say how much they should pay, but whatever it is it’s not enough. It will never be enough.
Many of those wealthy give generously to causes that help the poor. Yet this never seems to occur to you. Instead you prefer the government dole out the goodies to their preferred class of dependents.
@Nan G: You can thank Romney’s action during the 2002 Olympics for securing enough money from the Federal government to ensure Utah’s economic position for years to come.
http://www.christiannewstoday.com/Christian_News_Report_90050069.html
And…
Great points!
Look at the naked protest in John Boehner’s office yesterday for an excellent example of both your points.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/28/so-there-were-naked-people-yelling-and-screaming-in-john-boehners-office-yesterday/#ixzz2DXGKz8Qq
Three women AIDS activists saying they wanted to highlight the “naked truth” about potential spending cuts in HIV programs…..
Catch that?
POTENTIAL SPENDING CUTS…..
Not quitting the program, not ending it.
NOT even REALLY cutting it.
Just cutting its rate of GROWTH.
That fear brought out these insane nutcases who would strip naked in public.
It is not like we don’t know how HIV/AIDS gets spread, is it?
Think if the budget actually had BEEN cut! (Past tense.)
You know, REAL cuts.
ALL the nutcases would be out of their closets.
If you go back and look at the graphic I linked at post #18 you see that EARNINGS get taxed at higher rates for the POOR than for the millionaires!
So add them into the mix.
Rioting in the streets, just like in Greece.
Maybe more babies abandoned to the state like in Greece, too.
Now, in the UK, almost two-thirds of the country’s million-pound earners disappeared from Britain after the introduction of the 50% top rate of tax, figures have disclosed.
Some quit the country.
Others lowered their taxable income to fall below that 50% level.
Labour’s tax hike actually cost the UK £7 billion in lost tax revenue.
It is also deterring foreigners from opening businesses in the UK.
Seems ”getting the rich” is more important to the Left than balancing a budget…..everywhere they rule.
Nan G
see? that’s another proof of the CONSERVATIVES
superiority VALUES,
to see the naked woman who most likely vote for OBAMA,
but to make their point, decide they will be safer going naked to BOEMER,
instead of going to OBAMA, because they didn’t trust him and his crew,
bye
Nan G
about the BRITISH leaving their country,
It sound’s real, I hear some BRITISH language MORE THAN EVER IN CANADA,
the by GEORGE IS NOW AN EVERY DAY HEARD IN THE PUBLIC PLACE,
and they are angry too, they say other words, I would not repeat in the CYBER SPACE,
BYE
The democrats want the USA to be like it is in Russia. A farmer is told what to grow, has to pay all of the expenses raising the crop, harvests it, takes it to where he sells it, then waits for some time to find out how much he received for his work. It reminds me of one of my Tea Party signs that says, “IRS (Income Redistribution Service) From your pocket to theirs.”