Final Debate and Waxing Nostalgic [Reader Post]

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I have to hand it to Team Romney. I didn't think they had a cohesive plan. The first debate fully illuminated the small steps they had taken behind the scenes to build momentum. While many on the right were giddy with the whipsaw results from the outcome of the first debate I would wager that few anticipated the size, velocity, and residual wave of positive sentiment for Romney.

Romney is leveling the playing field in the swing states. At the time of this writing the updated forecasting from professors Kenneth Bickers and Michael Burry of the University of Colorado predict Romney in a landslide. You can see their work here (and they haven't been wrong on an election yet):

Updated election forecasting model still points to Romney win, University of Colorado study says

On the Obama side we have Nate Silver of the FiveThirtyEight blog who has done well with his polling and predicting in the previous two cycles. See his work here.

The general election polls are trending for Romney but his path to the 270 Electoral votes is difficult. See Real Clear Politics here:

BATTLE FOR WHITE HOUSE

The polls are what they are. They are useful to gauge momentum. In the end the only thing that matters is what happens on November 6th.

So this third and final debate is upon us. Foreign policy is the topic. It seems the pundits are advancing an agenda that Obama is stronger in this area. Perhaps on the larger scale of specifics and details he is. However, the Benghazi murders and the reaction from the Obama administration will force discourse on this sorrowful event. Certainly the keyboard warriors of the blogging world have been all over this. As much as those on the right grouse about the media protecting this administration I would submit that there has been a steady rhythm of media coverage this past week. As there should be. Americans died and the public is still searching for answers. I would hope both Romney and Obama tread honestly, lightly, and very respectfully.

Obama will try to paint Romney as a foreign affairs lightweight and a war

mongering neo-con. Making efforts to label him as a shoot first ask questions later cowboy whose ideas are worn and no longer pragmatic in our current time. Romney will be less dramatic but continue his winning approach of systematically drawing attention to Obama's deficient efforts. Beyond the exchange on the Benghazi tragedy, we should anticipate a general discussion about Russia, China, and the Middle East. Both candidates will stray and weave their conversations to their checklist items (whether topical or not) in an effort to poke their opponent in the eye.

Barring some incredible mental face plant by Romney his current momentum will not be stunted. There are plenty of topics to litigate on Obama's record but Romney doesn't need to dazzle. He just needs to put in a businessman like effort. Obama has a larger challenge. He has multiple problems to defend and his debate partner is not interested in clearing the path for him. Obama's straw man arguments have worn thin and his record on both domestic and foreign policy will be difficult to safeguard. He is in the unenviable position of needing a massive win in this debate. He knows the likelihood of spontaneity from his opponent is implausible. He will need to push.

What I would like to see from both candidates to wrap up this debate series is some clear and delineating talk about choices with a sprinkling of nostalgia. An excellent binder of people is old fashioned pride in America. Like it or not, one of the dynamics in our country is that of a pluralistic democracy. This focuses groups against each other in an effort to rise and gain meaningful status. This is where Obama lives. His interest in social justice, redistribution, and societal structuring should be brought into this debate by Romney and sharply contrasted with the ideas of self reliance, less governmental intervention, and freedom to achieve through hard work. After all, the American Dream is not about the expansion of government or programs to take from one group and give to another. It sounds a bit syrupy, but what lured millions to our shores was the opportunity to escape governmental oppression and build a better life through efforts from their own minds and hands.

Closing thoughts: In a few short weeks we will settle the argument of substance vs. decadence. Will this election be won due to economic conditions such as unemployment, health of the economy, and consumer confidence? Or will we be entering the crash test dummy portion of our ride? Lastly, as each debate passes Jim Lehrer is looking more and more like a genius moderator.

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Now Lehrer looks like a ‘genius’ moderator—since the outcome of the first debate was in line with the ultra-conservative position—but he willsoon return to being a PBS propagandist. Like Nate Silver—when one of his polls agreed with ultra-conservative position, he was a good guy—but now that his results are leaning toward Obama, he’s becoming a left-wing conspirator again. That’s what happens when you agree or disagree, respectively, with righties’ opinions, by the use of facts.

No matter the polls, no matter the Obama hype and teasing, and no matter Obama avoiding his record of unsuccessful hype on the economy, on the debt, on the lack of cohesive foreign policy; Obama is a loser. Obama has done nothing significant to help Americans that have lost their jobs, lost their homes, lost their savings and lost their trust in Obama.

Regardless of the results of the debate, we will wake up the following day with the same miserable economy, increased gas prices, high food prices, no budget, and lack of jobs. Nowadays Obama and his administration is like a very bad and tragic hangover for the excesses of Obama’s terrible socialist schemes.

Remember that Obama is NOT a Christian. A Christian would never challenge the beliefs of others as he does and support abortion.

Remember that during the 10 years or so that Obama sat in the church of a fellow Muslim, the Reverend Wright, with all the repugnance that the preacher spewed out on attacking America — Obama did nothing. That means that consciously and unconsciously Obama agrees with Wright.

Those who still favor Obama do so out of mistaken beliefs, and the lack of complete knowledge about issues and Obama. But my guess is that those who have found out over the past years who Obama is are not willing to reconsider Obama at all. That is why Obama is having problems raising much money for reelection. There are in the main fewer and fewer voters that are willing to risk the future of our country.

Fortunately many of the liberal and black voters who supported Obama in the past will not be voting for him.

@Liberal1 (Objectivity):

What total BS. You’d be crapping your pants if Bill O’Reilly moderated. Just the facts.

@AdrianS, #2:

The fact remains that Mitt Romney has totally reversed himself so many times on so many central points, and has provided so few specific details about how a tax plan that defies common sense could be made to work, that you don’t really have a clue what you’re actually voting for. But that’s apparently no problem, so long as whatever it is isn’t Barack Obama.

If that doesn’t sound like a perfect set up for total disaster, I don’t know does.

@Greg:

You have learned well; attack the opposition without ever having to prove that you have actually accomplished anything. But unfortunately for all you Obamaniacs, gas prices are double in spite of the billions we have poured into green energy (competition drives prices down), the unemployment rate is still at the rate that Obama, in 2008, found unacceptable, our population has grown, but there are fewer people in the civilian workforce, groceries, and all goods, have increased in cost while our personal wealth, and annual income, has decreased. The entire Middle East is a disaster with the only nation that Obama could point to to say “See, see how well we have done?”, Libya is now front and center as again, Americans are dead due to Obama policies.

I would ask you to explain exactly what it is you think Obama has done well, but you never will. You only know how to apply Saul Alinsky.

@AdrianS: Whoa on the fund raising — from what I saw on FOX yesterday the demos are 100 mill ahead of the repubs in fund raising and have outspent themselves into the proverbial hole and borrowing money from B of A. — whadda ya know? — who woulda thuk it? – demos and fiscal responsibility?– give me a break.

@Greg: #4 Greg:

The fact remains that Mitt Romney has totally reversed himself so many times on so many central points, and has provided so few specific details about how a tax plan that defies common sense could be made to work,

Ok, let us in on the secret. What did Mitt reverse himself on? Hasn’t provided specific details? Are you laughing? Obama hasn’t put out one single budget in 4 years. And his problem is that the ‘specific details’ of what he plans to do has been terribly obvious for 4 years while his plan drives the country into ruin. Do you really like paying $4 for gasoline? Do you really support him getting 4 Americans killed in Benghazi? give us a 10 item list of things you really, really like that Empty Chair has done.

@retire05, #5:

Are GDP growth, the value the of stock market, the stability of our nation’s financial sector, and the rate of job growth better or worse than they were at the end of 2008? Which way was each headed then, and which way is each headed now?

Are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan still dragging on, or are they winding down?

Is Osama bin Laden dead, or alive? What has happened to al Qaeda’s leadership cadre over the past 4 years?

Has there been another large scale act of terrorism in the United States on Obama’s watch, or has that decade-long flood slowed to a trickle?

Have any U.S. commercial aircraft been hijacked or bombed on Obama’s watch?

How many consecutive months of record corporate profits have there been since Obama took office?

Have record numbers of illegal aliens continued to flood across our borders on Obama’s watch?

Did a major component of the U.S. manufacturing industry–one that directly or indirectly supports around 1 million American jobs–fail, or make a comeback?

Is domestic oil production not, in fact, presently at an 8-year high? Is domestic natural gas production in 2012 not at an all-time high?

I guess I’m not really very clear on the republican definitions of success and failure. Apparently republicans believe where the previous administration left us represented some sort of resounding success, while getting everything back on track and rolling forward again is an example of epic failure–because, you know, it hasn’t happened quickly enough.

Or maybe success or failure is simply a matter whether or not they’re running the show.

@Redteam, #7:

Ok, let us in on the secret. What did Mitt reverse himself on? Hasn’t provided specific details?

You have got to be kidding.

@Greg:

Are GDP growth, the value the of stock market,

etc: so you’re trying to make the point that “the Economy” is much better? wow, good luck with that.

Are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan still dragging on, or are they winding down?

Iraq papers were signed ‘before’ Bush left office. He gets credit for that. People are still being killed daily in Afghan, Empty Chair gets credit for that.

Is Osama bin Laden dead, or alive?

Don’t you know. Yes, the CIA took charge of that and killed him in spite of EC’s attempts to save him.

Has there been another large scale act of terrorism in the United States on Obama’s watch,

Well, Fort Hood comes to mind immediately.

Have any U.S. commercial aircraft been hijacked or bombed on Obama’s watch?

Thanks to the measures put into place by GWB.

Have record numbers of illegal aliens continued to flood across our borders on Obama’s watch?

Absolutely.

Did a major component of the U.S. manufacturing industry–one that directly or indirectly supports around 1 million American jobs–fail, or make a comeback?

Depends on your standard of measure, I’m sure China is pleased with the results.

Is domestic oil production not, in fact, presently at an 8-year high? Is domestic natural gas production in 2012 not at an all-time high?

In spite of Empty Chair, private production is up. The segment EC is responsible for is at 39% of when he came in. Federal permits are at less than 40%. He has been an unmitigated disaster in this area.

I guess I’m not really very clear on the republican definitions of success and failure.

That’s obvious. seems as if you have EC’s failures nailed down pretty well. You didn’t mention what he did that you are actually proud of. Did you just think posting a list of his disasters would be a surprise to anyone? You better get out and vote, because if your guy wins, you likely won’t have an election to vote in 4 years from now. He’ll be ruling by executive order.

@Greg:

You have got to be kidding.

So you’re not able to come up with anything.

what is EC’s claim today, that the Benghazi thing was spontaneous or a terrorist attack, he can’t seem to make up his mind.

and the EC thing you are really proud of is?

Your fundamental problem with the points raised in post #8 seems to be a near total lack of accurate information. Right wing internet sources probably deserve most of the credit for that.

Regarding your comment in #11, So you’re not able to come up with anything, take your pick:

“I respect and will protect a woman’s right to choose,” or “I never really called myself pro-choice.”

“I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it,” or “Roe v. Wade has gone too far.”

“I supported the assault weapon ban,” or “I don’t support any gun control legislation.”

“I would like to have campaign spending limits,” or “The American people should be free to advocate for their candidates and their positions without burdensome limitations.”

“I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation,” or “There’s no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs.”

“I’m not in favor of privatizing Social Security or making cuts,” or “Social Security’s the easiest and that’s because you can give people a personal account.”

“If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be a model for the nation,” or “What works in one state may not be the answer for another.”

I could go on, but it quickly gets boring. Hey, if you don’t trust me to point out Mitt Romney’s reversals, maybe this source would be better: 14 Bald-Faced Mitt Romney Flip-Flops That Were Dug Up By John McCain

Better still, you might consider paying enough attention to notice the obvious for yourself.

GREG
YOU SEE THAT Redteam is not kidding on serious issues,

like you and OBAMA do. all the time,

@Greg:Gregory

Your fundamental problem with the points raised in post #8 seems to be a near total lack of accurate information. Right wing internet sources probably deserve most of the credit for that.

I know you put those few things up as ‘flip-flops’ but actually there is not a change of position on a single item you put up. for example:

“I supported the assault weapon ban,” or “I don’t support any gun control legislation.”

Just because you supported something in the past has no bearing on what you support in the future.
Another one:

“If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be a model for the nation,” or “What works in one state may not be the answer for another.”

just because you have a ‘model’ for something doesn’t mean anyone else has to ‘follow the model’.
and on and on, you get the drift.
I notice you still haven’t told us what you are proud of that EC is responsible for.

Greg, I notice that McCain didn’t mention Romney has flipped on ‘gays and marriage’ oh wait, that’s EC. Oh, now I get it. That’s what you’re proudest of’: EC’s position of gays and his many flip flops.

@Greg

When you wake up the day after the debate, check the gas prices, check-out the job situation in America, and think about Obama’s crass foreign policy. If you’re honest with yourself, there won’t be a 2nd term for Obama.

AdrianS
the debate is over, and I like what MITT ROMNEY conduct himself,
he show class and compassion for his opponent, and he stated his corrections to the OBAMA lies and
accusations, he explained his ability to see what is to be done in the STATES AND ABROAD,
PERFECTLY, and he ask the AMERICANS to support him,
to become the one to fix what is broken,
well done

@Greg:

I know others have responded to you, but since your questions were directed at me, personally, I will respond, as well.

Are GDP growth, the value of the stock market, the stability of our nations’ financial sector, and the rate of job growth better or worse than they were at the end of 2008?

Obviously you think that a increasing GDP and a rising DJIA are symbolic of a healthy, prosperous economy that creates jobs and increases personal wealth. That thinking only shows just how little you know of history. According to your thinking, the Great Depression was just a few months long. In 1932, the year FDR was elected and just a few years after the crash of Wall Street, the U.S. GDP was $58.7 billion. For the next six years, in spite of high unemployment, high bank failures, and businesses going out of business, the GDP continued to grow until it reached $86.1 Billion in 1938. Yet 1938 brought unemployment rates that were rapidly rising to the early ’30’s levels. Now to the stock market which you seem indicates a strong economy when it is rising: At the end of 1931, the DJIA was at 77.90, and continued to rise during the decade until in 1938 it reached 154.36. But using your logic that a strong market and a growing GDP builds a strong economy, then explain the length of the Great Depression. Your barometers don’t work, Greg, but you didn’t know that when you presented your strawman.

The stability of our nation’s financial sector: with Dodd-Frank, it is being predicted that thousands of small, community oriented banks will go out of business. Dodd-Frank simply makes the large banks, like BoA, who the Obama campaign just borrowed $15 million from, too big to fail. It provides for even more taxpayer bailouts for large banks, should they fail.

The rate of job growth: what job growth? There is only job growth when two factors are combined; jobs created for those entering the work force for the first time (high school/college graduates) and jobs created for those who previously lost their jobs. This administration’s job growth has not even kept up with the population growth, and the number in the civilian work force is lower than it has been in over a decade. Job growth is when there is X number of jobs in January, 2009 and Y number of jobs in October, 2012 which is bigger than X PLUS new entries into the job market. In Dec. 2008, the last full month of the Bush administration, there were 143,328,000 employed Americans. In Sept., 2012, the number of employed Americans were still below that Dec. 2008 figure at 142,974,00. That is not taking into consideration those who had just entered the workforce for the first time. There has been NO job growth, Greg. NONE. It is all smoke and mirrors that you have wandered into.

Are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan still draggin on, or are they winding down?

Well, let’s take Afghanistan first: no, the war there is not winding down. An indication of that is the number of American military deaths in that nation. Under Bush, 630 American military lost their lives in Afghaistan in just under 8 years. Under Obama, that number has reached 1511 in less than four years. Talk to any Afghanistan veteran and they will tell you that the country is a mess and we are not gaining ground. Now, Iraq: although the lapdog press who can do nothing but lick Obama’s boots will not tell you, the foreign press is a great source of information. Al Qaeda is gaining strength in Iraq by the day. We are running the risk of losing every bit of ground we gained in Iraq and the Iraqi government makes no bones about cozying up to Iran. Do you consider that a winning combination?

Is Obama bin Laden dead?

Was that question designed to throw some humor in your otherwise silly response to me? If so, major fail.

What has happened to al Qaeda’s leadership cadre over the past 4 years?

Perhaps you should ask Ayman al Zawahri. If not him, his brother can be found stirring the pot in Cairo. I have told you before, ObL was a bag man and the titular religious head of AQ. Al Zawahri is the actual brain, the brain who was trained by the same Muslim Brotherhood that Obama welcomes to the White House with open arms. AQ are like cockroaches. Kill one, two more take his place. If you needed any indication of the growth of AQ, all you need to do is look to Benghazi.

Has there been another large scale act of terrorism in the United States on Obama’s watch?

Outside of Fort Hood, no, but do you really think that AQ, and other terrorist groups, are all stupid? If they can’t terrorize us by killing us in the thousands, they will do it by killing us in the dozens. It doesn’t matter how many of us they kill at one time, at least not to AQ, it matters to them that they keep on killing us, here and on foreign soil.

How many consecutive months of record corporate profits have there been since Obama took office?

Again, you seem to know little of history. Corporate profits, for those corporations that remain in business, like continue to maximize profits, just as they did in the 1930’s. Learn some history, Greg, because the barometers you want to use fail you.

Have record number os illegal aliens continued to flood across our borders on Obama’s watch?

Hard to say; two factors come into play — a) the hobles put on the Border Patrol, who keep those numbers by the number of apprehended, by the DHS and b) the lower unemployment rate in Mexico, who, btw, has a lower unemployment rate than the U.S.

Did a major compeonent of the U.S. manufacturing industry–one that directly or indirecly supports around 1 million American jobs–fail, or make a comeback?

I can only assume you are referring to GM. If so, the answer is “fail.” GM has shut down its Volt facility twice this year. Its stock is in the toilet, and it is not selling cars because the Obama administration was so fixed on green vehicles and that is the direction GM is going. Only problem? You can buy a cheaper, more reliable green vehicles for a lot less money than GM is selling their for. Consumers are not stupid. They don’t want some vehicle that is being recalled everytime you turn around. If GM is doing so good, why hasn’t the Obama administration dumped the federally owned GM stock on the open market to get back all the money we taxpayers gave GM? There is your answer.

Is domestic oil production not, in fact, presently at an 8 year high? Is domestic natural gas production in 2012 not at an all time high?

Is it up slightly, but not due to anything this current administration has done. Oil drilling is going on on private lands, where the government really has no control over the leases. The Eagleford Shale is one of the most promising oil fields in the nation. Take a look at a Texas map, Greg. You know what you won’t see on it? Tons of federally owned land. The land that is being drilled is not controlled by Obama, but by the private owners and those drilling permits are being granted through the Texas Railroad Commission. Romney is correct; drilling permits granted by this current administration is down A LOT.

You see, Greg, you are blinded by your Obamania. You think Obama is doing a good job because that is what you are being told and you are either too lazy, or too stupid, to do the research that would prove you wrong. The Middle East is blowing up; gas prices are double; food is rapidly rising in cost, there is no plan to continue the Bush tax rates and so taxes, even on low income wage earners, will go up automatically in January, 2013, the U-6 unemployment rate is at Great Depression numbers, more people are on food stamps than ever before and violent crime rates are skyrocketing. This is what you consider an administrative success.

Tell me, Greg, how does someone get to the point that they cannot see reality, as you have? How does someone become so blind? Or is it that you are simply a Marxist that thinks Obama will finally bring about your socialist utopia?

Romney has moved left of Obama. Is there any wonder Gingrich,Perry,Cain,Palin and even Rubio have vanished. He’s got no use for the Tea Party.He oughta be running as a Dem.He bears no resemblance to the guy who won the Fla. primary.
I think he won the debate –2 of 3. Election too close to call Ohio and Va decide. Dems hold Senate.

As predicted Giants beat Cards in 7 Tigers win in 7 in W.S. with Verlander MVP

@Richard Wheeler:

To run to the left of Obama, Romney would have to run on the CPUSA ticket.

Oh, wait, the CPUSA has already endorsed Obama.

@Greg: Greggy, the fact remains that 0-blama lied to America and is now a failed President. Is our deficit cut in half or unemployment at or below 6%. Hint, it’s the economy stupid!!

@Greg: It’s the economy stupid, and 0-blama is a failed President. The rest is minor in comparison.

@retire05:

Oh, wait, the CPUSA has already endorsed Obama.

Along with Chavez, Castro, and Putin who have all come out as though they endorsed him as well. What’s that old saying about birds of a feather?

@another vet: The real difference, Romney is NOT Empty Chair..