What the flying f&%k is our President doing about this?
This is our soverign ground, just as our warships are America every embassy across the globe is America and right now the flag of al-Qaeda, those responsible for 9/11 and thousands upon thousands of American deaths, is flying over American soil.
A black Islamic flag is flying over the U.S. embassy in Tunisia after it was stormed by a mob of protesters today – as anger at an American-made anti-Islam film resulted in chaos across the world.
Symbols of America and U.S. embassies have been targeted around the globe in a fourth day of protest after Tuesday’s deadly raid on the American consulate in Libya.
In Tunisian capital Tunis, a mob overran the U.S. embassy compound, scaling the walls and setting fire to cars before tearing down the Stars and Stripes and replacing it with the symbol of Islam.
No U.S. staff were in the embassy in the city, where an American school has also been set on fire.
A large cloud of black smoke rose around the U.S. embassy as stone-throwing protesters and police waged a pitched battle.
Thousands of demonstrators massed outside the embassy and several were seen climbing the outer wall of the embassy grounds and raising a flag on which was written the Muslim profession of faith.
The protesters chanted ‘Obama, Obama, we are all Osamas’.
And all this is a coordinated attack by our enemy. The film is nothing but a excuse (and most likely a part of the coordinated attack) designed to get moderate Muslims angry (fanatical Islamists are always angry so no need to do anything special for them), and to keep tensions high to achieve their ultimate goal. To make the world bow to Islam and do what they want, making the “slandering” of Islam unlawful across the globe.
Cited as the Pentagon’s leading expert on Islamic law, Stephen Coughlin also caught up with TheBlaze to talk about the “ten-year plan” that was drafted by Islamists in 2005 intended to make Islamic slander a crime — not just in Islamic countries, but across the globe.
“And now they are putting that into action,” he said pointedly.
Coughlin explained that there was never an “Arab Spring,” but rather, a “Salafist-Muslim Brotherhood takeover” in the Middle East and that accepting that fact is key to understanding Islamists’ strategy.
He asked for people think back to the disproportionate outrage that ensued in the Muslim community over the Pope’s 2009 comments about Islamic tyranny, and to the fist Quran burning in Florida led by pastor Terry Jones.
Both incidents, according to the attorney and scholar, were actually first reported on in the Muslim world not Western media. The goal, he claimed, was to “manufacture an event” with which to incite violence and ultimately “subordinate the U.S. First Amendment.“ It was engineered ”to get President Bush, Obama, whoever…to say ‘sorry.’” Thus the goal is to compel the West to blame the West for bringing violence upon itself.
He added that there is a “total lack of situational and strategic awareness” in U.S. government and that groups like the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) and American Islamists are actively attempting to “get us to defeat ourselves.”
“We have allowed ourselves to be surrounded by Muslim Brotherhood front groups” in government who are even affecting the training of our officials. His advice to Romney or any lawmaker moving forward is simple: “Jihadists are fighting in accordance with Islamic law…when they say they are jihadists, [at least] pretend that they mean it.”
So where is our leader?
The man is not a leader. He’s a campaigner.
So in a word….we’re screwed.
German Paper: ‘Obama’s Middle East Policy Is in Ruins’
Is it me or is the Obama term turning into a sequel of Jimmy Carter’s failed presidency. It is said that history repeats itself but the similarities between the two are frighteningly similar. As I watch our embassies get raided in 3 countries it draws me back to the 70’s during the Iran hostage crisis. Instead of keeping the people from our embassy captive, some 30 years later, the radicals are killing them Also, in the wake of the raids it has shown Obama’s weakness as a leader. Like Carter, he stands in the oval office with his tail between his legs. Instead of mounting a response, his administration comes out with an apology for the film made here in the U.S. We have our American Ambassador killed and he and Clinton begin their remarks with an apology-not a condemnation? I thought Carter was weak but this is a total travesty.
After almost 4 years in office and watching both President Bush’s terms, doesn’t Obama realize the only way to deal with any Arab uprising is through force. They do not respond to apologies. It only makes Obama and the entire US look weak. They respond only to force. I never saw our embassies getting raided when President Bush was in office. Though the Arabs did not like him, they respected him. They knew a Tomahawk missile or an elite SEAL or Marine team would be all over them if they did.
Also, what about these gas prices? It again reminds me of the the days of gas shortages during the Carter debacle (I mean administration). Instead of there being a shortage now, gas has become too expensive to buy. And ironically, that’s exactly what Obama had planned on in since taking office. Despite the 100% rise in gas prices over the Obama term, there has been no media outcry. When gas went up a penny during President Bush’s term, the liberal media would crucify him.
Finally, just like in Carter’s term, the moral here in America is at an all time low. Our economy is bad, gas prices are up, people are storming our embassies and jobs are scare. However, if you all remember who came after Jimmy Carter- Ronald Reagan. I foresee history repeating itself again. This time, Governor Romney will take the oval office and bring back to America respect, prosperity and a hope for the future.
Yes…this is Jimmy Carter II. The difference this time is that the media in fully behind Obama/Carter II; after watching the “news” last night…near as I can figure, Obama has “saved” us from the Great Bush Depression and kept World War III from breaking out in the Middle East…and that “bumbler” Romney keeps putting his foot in his mouth.
At least that’s the way NBC sees it.
Slut hillary and this criminal cabinet have destroyed America. I have told the American people for over three years to impeach this cocaine using muslim terrorists. Yes..the cocaine come into the wipe house via the kitchen..no suprise. You thinks he exercises every morning at 0400. He misses almost 80% of the PDB…no wonder nothing is done..Wake Up..the hits to this country are being generated by the leader in the wipe house and his muslim allies. The conspiracy originates in the wipe house.
Forgive me if someone already mentioned this, haven’t read through the thread.
Just wanted to point out that Valerie Jarrett gets full taxpayer security, while little to none was afforded to Ambassador Chris Steven.
This is all Monday morning quarterbacking. According to Mitt Romney, America needs to just glower at the world and they’ll all fall in line. Honesty, is this guy capable of articulating anything outside of vague platitudes? What a hack. Good luck getting him elected. The Republicans have pushed so far Right, Romney needs 60% of the white vote just to have a chance. The party that hates gays and immigrants, that has contempt for women, that’s in bed with the rich, this is the party he’s trying to win a national election with. The fact he comes across as a buffoon in grave national moments probably isn’t helping either.
woof…. talk about “vague platitudes”. You sure managed to package up every bogus and insulting talking point of your peers into one offensive sentence.
Lump people much, Tom? After that, you will be deserving of what will be coming your way in insults.
The flying of AQ’s flag over our embassy will be a psychological and symbolic victory for them. Flying a flag over another country’s territory signifies victory. How much mileage they get out of it remains to be seen.
Oh was I wrong about the Republican Platform? I guess I will go back and read it again. To be on the safe side though, you might make sure the traditional (and shrinking) base gets to the voting booths in large, large numbers.
In the meantime I will remain disgusted by the response here to a crisis and tragedy. Perhaps you can tell me, Mata, how many more times I can expect to see a photo of Chris Steven’s corpse used to slam Obama politically? I count two times so far. Pretty classy.
What you are wrong about is your preferred interpretation of the GOP Platform. Try reading it again, without your partisan glasses on, and stop inserting things. Here’s the link to the GOP Platform.
Take, for example, marriage. You interpret wanting to preserve the definition of marriage – born of a religious rite, not a government classification – as “hating gays”. At one time, such an obvious union would been a no brainer in all societies. There is no mention of civil unions, and that includes a denial of such, in the platform. Civil unions is the “compromise” (remember that word your Party likes to use so much?) that would protect the traditional religious rite of marriage, but still allows for the benefits awards to same sex couples. Problem is that is not what the gay movement wants… they want the word “marriage” specifically distorted from it’s original religious rite even more than they want the benefits. And that is because they want a societal change to accept same sex marriage as the norm.
Me? I think any government references and/or control over what is “married” or “civil union” should be beyond their scope of power. It’s only there to provide a definition of whether you qualify for a government tax break, hand out, etc. And with their laws defining the status of two people… which should be none of any level of government’s business…comes the lucrative proliferation of attorneys. I say instead of giving same sex the same oppressing harness which discriminates against two sex couples who choose to live together, but not marry, why not release everyone of all sexual orientation from government definitions. End of story.
Nor are you correct when you say the GOP has “contempt” for women merely because they oppose all federal funds for abortions. You will not find overturning Roe v Wade as part of the platform, making abortions illegal. However I find it interesting that you find an emotion, such as “contempt”, is measured by whether one sanctions seizing taxpayer funds to pay for another’s need for an abortion… something that is not a disease, and is most certainly preventable in most circumstances.
INRE the general response to the ME. You’re not new here and you know this is red meat for most of the readership here. Not my cup of tea, as I think you’ve figured out. And for that, I take a lot of heat and insults from “friendlies”, so to speak. Hang, I’m even demonized for daring to question the motives and intent of the a’hole who made this film, and his possible participation in this event as a planned sideshow. But you know how it is… free speech and all that.
All I can say is if you intend to hang here, buck up and grow another layer of skin. There are voices here that you lumped into that broad brush of insults you spit ou, that also call for more tempered rhetoric. The right has their ugly, just as your side has their own ugly. So please don’t embarrass yourself by suggesting that the same hateful tactics were not employed by your side of the aisle during the Bush years, and using the deaths of soldiers and photos to smear that POTUS.
I don’t agree with the extent the Stevens photos are used to charge emotions. It’s heartbreaking, and I consider it undignified. On the flip side, I most certainly believe that Obama bears some responsibility in all this for his past choices in foreign policy. He has advocated for overthrow of every leader of allied Muslim countries. And I won’t repeat my reasoning for supporting “dictators” over this “new and improved” Egypt, Yemen and Libya since you can read my opinion on what US foreign policy is all about on another thread.
There are a lot of similarities between the Carter administration and the Obama administration, Tired American.
So let’s look at them:
Carter was thought to be a “humanist” whose entire presidency was built on securing human rights. Obama is considered a “social justice supporter” which is a humanist on steroids basically adding the equasion of equal outcome to all citizens by way of wealth redistribution.
Carter was also considered, by the left, a highly intelligent man; Obama is touted as the smartest man evah to hold office.
Carter backed the deposition of the Shah of Iran, based on the perception that the Shah was a dictator who persecuted his people. The Carter administration supported the return of the Ayatollh Khomeini thinking Khomeini would be a strong “human rights” advocate. One Carter advisor called Khomeini the “Ghandi of Iran”.
So the Carter administration refused to aid the Shah when it was obvious that a coup was going to start, and behind the scenes, backed the ousting of the Shah and the return of Khomeini. But it turned nasty as Khomeini was a follower of Sayyid Qutb who believed that Muslims should return to pure Islam (7th century Islam) and denounce the ways of the Western world, especially the United States, and the Western culture hindered a Muslim’s ability to enter Heaven to to its decadence. Either the intel was lacking when it came to the opinions of Khomeini, or Carter ignored it. Or maybe both.
Obama backed the “Arab Spring”, ousting Gadafi taking the same position that Carter took, that Gadafi, like the Shah, was as dictator that suppressed “social justice” in Libya, which was the same position Obama took on Egypt with the ousting of Mubarak. But again, either the intel was bad, or Obama ignored it, because it was clear to foreign reporters that the Muslim Brotherhood was backing the riots and protests and would only bring about a Sayyid Qutb type of Islam. Just as Iran was a disaster for Carter who thought he could bring “humanity” to the Middle East in Iran, Obama thought he could bring “social justice” to the Middle East with the Arab Spring.
Both foreign policies were a disaster for the United States. But that is where the difference between Carter and Obama come into play.
Carter hunkered down after the killing of an American ambassador and the taking of the hostages in Iran. He was clearly running for re-election but stayed in Washington, D.C. working the phones and trying to get Middle East cooperation for the release of the hostages. Operation Eagle Claw was created, although it was a disaster. Carter refused in late 1980 to even respond to the statements of Reagan. He, for all intent and purposes, suspended his campaign.
Obama, on the other hand, has stayed in full blown campaign mode. He has refused to advise the American people what he is doing about Benghazi, going so far as to have the State Department create a policy whereas it will no longer give any information on Benghazi, claiming it is due to an FBI investigation. The Obama administration is trying to create a media blackout, so that the crisis will go away. It won’t work. Instead of actively carrying out his job as POTUS, Obama chose to give an interview to the Pimp With A Limp, and attend a campaign stop in Las Vegas, giving the impression that the Benghazi crisis was of little import. He hosted the Olympic teams and has been pretty much AWOL on the death of four Americans. That is unlike Carter who tried to keep the American people informed on the hostage crisis.
Yes, other events are similar: increasing gas prices, increasing food prices, unacceptable unemployment rates, daily inflation growth, a volitile Middle East. And you are correct in one thing: media reporting. In 1979-80, the media actually reported on the ever increasing problems in the U.S. as well as in the Middle East. This time, the media basically ignores the lack of action on the part of the Obama administration and fixates on the comments of Mitt Romney. It is clear, as it has been for the last four years, that the media is no longer trustworthy.
Will Obama be defeated as Carter was? I don’t know. It will be an uphill battle because the media is not going to say anything, or write anything, that is detrimental to Obama.
and two more MARINES KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN,
THEY WHERE KILLED BY SOME WEARING THE POLICE UNIFORM,
WE CANNOT TRUST ANY UNIFORM OF THE AFGHANS SIDE,
YES THE WHITE HOUSE ACCUSE MITT ROMNEY TO SHOOT FIRST AND AIM AFTER, OBAMA REPEAT IT.
WELL THAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO ALSO IN AFGHANISTAN,
MITT ROMNEY IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
NOW MUSLIM PROTEST REACH ISRAEL, FROM FOX,
I THINK THE TOTAL FIGHT HAS BEGUN, THAT’S THEIR GOAL,
AMERICA GET READY, THERE ARE MANY OF THEM IN AMERICA,
THEY WILL FOLLOW THE ORDERS DON’T HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT IT.
MY, MY, Greg. Project we much!
The Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, closed the Iranian embassy, about two weeks ago. Security was beefed up in many others. Non essential staff was evacuated.
The Brits have done the same.
The Muslim movie side show had nothing to do with this. You can’t deflect this propaganda.
We shall see how the relevant constituencies feel about the GOP platform in the exit polls. There is no doubt that the GOP has made it extremely tough on themselves nationally by allowing the Bachman wing of the party to steer the entire ship toward an overt embrace of Evangelicalism. That is the perception and, I believe, the reality, and the math just doesn’t work with changing demographics. Right when they should be broadening the base their shrinking it, and the numbers look very grim for Romney indeed (and I don’t entirely blame him for that. If he loses he will be a victim of that larger dynamic as much as anything else). One has only to consider GWB’s perceived place in the GOP 12 years ago and where he would fit in now in Paul Ryan’s interpretation of government’s role.
I aknowledge and commend your stance on Stevens. Certainly it must be complicated and difficult for Conservatives such as yourself to be sharing a tent with such influential Conservative intellectual leaders such as Dr John. I actually feel for you because that would be very difficult, if not impossible, for me to bear.
Tom, since when has anyone given a flying fart about a Party Platform? In an election, you have a choice between the two major party candidates. I doubt any voter agrees 100% with either, so most voters will pick one of the two as the lesser of the two evils… no matter what a platform states.
As far as “sharing tents” go, well you have more than your fair share of anarchists, avowed Socialists and Communists in the Dem Party. ’tis the nature of our country. Most people are a mixture of political leanings. They generally pick one of the two big tents in which to reside during election time. So I’m sure you can look at some standing next to you, and also find it difficult.
I understand, . . . your ‘progressive’ mind can appropriate the disintegration of LIVE human beings into dust instantaneously, but it can’t accept torture to extract information. I’ll stick with my original percept that the progressive self-righteous ignorance is Hypocritical. It also seems incomprehensible to you, as you appear incapable of presenting a cogent argument.
@Greg: Well, Obama must not think that the Bush administration was torturing since they dropped the investigation. Now, where again do you draw the line? Killing innocent women and children with drones?
Ok, the fundamental question is “intelligence” it was not there in 9/11, not here today and will not be there in the future. There are 16 functioning and operational intelligence services in the country costing billions of dollars. How dumb can this intelligence community get. Oh, drunks, illiterates, asskissing governmental whores all make up the intelligence community. REcall this is a government job, 9-5. Recall to that if a junior intelligence officer disagrees with the boss, one warning and then fired. Maybe a overhall of the intelligence community is necessary. the fool panetta was director of the cia he made it worse. leon has not the leadership nor skills to be the dod. He is such a magnificent political duch bag
It’s hard to tell if you were being serious or snarky here…
Either way, it was laugh out loud funny.
Our sovereign property was attacked. Why did we not shoot to kill. I don’t give a damn if they were civilians, radicals or whatever. Our country and our property was attacked! We will continue to see this as we are perceived as weak and spineless. The Islamics have openly stated they would outlast us. They said we do not have to stomach to persevere in a long struggle and of course recognized the appeasers amongst us would make so much noise and make all feel guilty forever thinking of standing up to the Religion of Peace!
Doesn’t help either when the so called leader of the free world utters asinine nonsense as this:
“I have made it clear that the United States has a profound respect for people of all faiths. We stand for religious freedom. And we reject the denigration of any religion — including Islam,” the president said in the prerecorded remarks.”
Of course the morons in the Mideast see that as a go signal. Why. Because in reality, that statement is only true when it comes to Islam!!! Moron Alert! This President, his administration and of course Muslims have been denigrating every religion except Islam! Wake up America! These are the same people that didn’t want God or Jerusalem in their platform. does one think for one minute the Arabs don’t see this as weakness? Good grief! Might as well light the torch for them!
The people in the Mid East have always respected strength. I don’t say this lightly but the fact is clear. When someone says they are going to kill you, you fight back or get killed. We were attacked. We stood by and our people were killed in the process.
As I look deeper into this, I sure as hell believe there was not only warning of this possibility but in fact sheer ignorance as to what is going on. Question. It was 9/11!! Why in the hell were there not extra security precautions at our embassies?! why in the hell were our Marines not allowed to have their weapons loaded in Egypt?! Why in the hell did we not defend our sovereign property?! I don’t want to hear the film excuse or the”niceties of what we have to do” bullshit! I want to know why we are now a nation of emascualted morons who refuse to defend ourselves!
This isn’t just Carterlike! This is our President and his lackeys surrendering our country to a foreign force. I have had enough! We either take action or we lose everything! And a good start would be shooting the next moron that trespasses on our property in an act of war!!
Those of you like Greg and others know how I feel about this and of course won’t like it. How is it that we as a country are apologizing for actions against us! For those who have served, I have to wonder. How can one feel having their hands tied while their people are being killed? How is it they have unloaded weapons? And finally how is it that there are so many people out there that want us to “understand” why these people want to kill us? The bullshit has to stop and we as a country have to stand up!
Sorry as always about the length and tone, but I’m getting madder by the moment! As I’ve said before. This isn’t going to stop off our shores. It is coming here and it is going to be bloody., especially with the open hatred in this country towards any religion other than Islam. And there is that hatred!
Aye re Tom “Serious or snarky” re Dr.John? Now you’re kidding–right.
@ Aye, RW,
I am secure enough in my convictions to aknowledge greatness in my foe. At this moment in history The Right has advanced Dr John as the visionary spokesperson for its cause. Or perhaps he has seized that mantle of destiny in Randian fashion. His words and his peerless photoshopping of Obama’s head onto various historical despots leave no room for argument that he is the Right’s most formidable champion since 4th Amendment crusader, Yosemite Sam.
Tom I too have stood in awe of the mad Dr.’s grasp of the complexities of international politics. I’ll bet Yosemite Sam was better looking.
@Tired American: .
We can certainly all hope so. Empty Chair has just totally abdicated all responsibility for the security of Americans at embassies throughout the world. In fact, ‘it’ has abdicated responsibility for everything American except campaigning for re-election and enhancing the idolatry amongst the press (loosley using that term). He needs to go ahead and resign in disgrace, he has no dignity left.
Tom, the picture of Stevens corpse should be framed on EC’s desk and a large poster on the main gate of the white house. Maybe even on his night stand as a good reminder of his failure to protect him.
I’m happy to hear that you are disgusted with his response to the crisis and tragedy. That’s not like you, to be disgusted with the EC, so maybe you’re making progress. Unfortunately i’m sure you’re not nearly as disgusted with EC as Stevens’ family is.
The collateral damage has certainly been a hell of a lot less than what resulted from a ground invasion and a massive, behind-the-scenes air campaign that went virtually unreported by your so-called left-wing media. People have no idea of the horrors that have gone unseen. Over 118,000 confirmed civilian deaths in Iraq alone—out of sight, out of mind. Just one more insignificant detail that has certainly been purged from the right-wing memory by now, if it ever made it past their narrow-field blinders to begin with.
And then people ignore the fact that the drone strategy has unquestionably been highly effective, surgically eliminating virtually all of al Qaeda’s leadership cadre, while yammering absurd accusations about Obama’s policy of appeasement.
I don’t know how some people can use the word hypocrisy without being struck by lightning on the spot.
@Greg: Greg: .
Ahhhh!!!! ignorance is so blissful for some. Give us an estimate of the number of civilian deaths in Iraq in the 10 years prior to the US involvement. I suspect 118,000 will be a very small fraction of those.
Now I like a laugh as much as anyone, but to pretend that drone attacks are going to prevent deaths such as the ambassadors and defend embassy’s is a little to much.
so called? Do you live in this country? and you think the media is ‘so-called’? I guess that’s your attempt at humor.
I can’t even begin to tell you the extent to which the right’s cynical political exploitation of those images disgusts me. It’s going to cost them dearly.
WHAT DISGUST ME IS TO THINK OF THE FINES AMERICANS KILLED WITHOUT ANY WAY TO DEFEND THEM FROM THAT MOB ALL OUT TO KILL,
THAT IS THE MOST DISGUSTING ACTION FROM OBAMA,
I don’t think you got my previous message
something weird happen to me,
I don’t get the comments on my site, and I did not unsubscribe,
and the usual sign to subscribe or unsubscribe so to receive the comment home on my site
are not here anymore, it happen on the 14 at the time I gave you a message about CARLYLE which I was trying to click a like on her for her comment, without being able to click many times I tried it
AFTER THE FA SERVER SHUT OUT FOR SOME MINUTES, AND I got back on fa after I went to flopping aces.net
AND TODAY THE COMMENTS WHERE NOT COMING AT ALL
back after I had post a comment on some.
I don’t know what to get back what was before.
I heard an interview Stevens’ stepfather on CNN. His reaction was not quite how you’ve imagined. I was enormously impressed with him.
Mata has a solid point that there are bad actors all over the ideological spectrum. I know 9/11 was a unique situation, but I can’t help thinking about how in the immediate aftermath, GWB had overwhelming support. Even those who questioned his leadership knew there would be time for postmortems later. Obama has never received similar consideration. See, when I see people openly rooting for the President to fail in protecting Americans, that to me is no different than rooting for Americans to die, and it is a disgrace. There will he time to pick apart Obama a week, a year, ten years from now, when we actually have some facts. Do everyone a favor and stop hoping to see more American bodies dragged through the street to prove your point.
“I can’t even begin to tell you the extent to which the right’s cynical exploitation of those images disgust me.”
Why? Did the endless loops of the video of our soldiers being drug through the streets of Mogadishu disgust you? Did the thousands of photos of dead, and dying, soldiers in Iraq during the Bush administration, published by a press that felt the public had a “right to know” also disgust you? Were you disgusted with the photos of American contractors that had been hung from a bridge and burned to death?
Funny how you are disgusted by reality when it serves to reflect on the guy you are responsible for helping to elect but never seem to mention that you were disgusted by the photos, and films, of other American casualties.
You just don’t get it, do you? Americans, especially conservatives, are not hoping to see Obama fail to protect Americans. HE HAS FAILED TO PROTECT AMERICANS, and it disgusts us.
The State Department made a statement that the decision to put Marines at an embassy or consulate was a decision made on a nation by nation basis. So………………………………..
would you like to explain to me why we have Marines assigned to the embassy in London but not to the Consulate in Libya?
Obama’s foreign policy is a failure and the sooner you admit that, the better about yourself you will feel.
Sources please. Are you trying to insinuate that those deaths were from us and not the result of our enemies? Are those of us who were there war criminals in your mind? Was that the only war in U.S. history that had civilian casualties? You imply ‘yes’ to all.
To get you started, here is an analysis of the civilian deaths. Notice that the number attributed to Coalition forces is less than 15,000.
@Greg: r so-called left-wing media. @Greg:
To you the problem is ‘the exploitation’? Are you serious? Shouldn’t the fact that the Ambassador was killed and abused as he was disgust you instead of ‘the exploitation’. And it is 100% EC’s responsibility and the last time I looked, he’s not on the ‘right’. You think the ‘right’ is controlling the media that is publishing all those pictures? Have you been in a cocoon for the last 4 years?
I’m not getting the comments either. I was until the service interruption (I think that was yesterday afternoon)
The problem is that EC has shown zero interest in this whole thing. Think about what GWB did when 911 happened, he shut down everything and paid 100% undivided attention to the people involved. EC has not even slowed down his campaigning and has made no statement except to blame it on the Constitution for allowing the filmmakers free speech. EC is the one that ‘failed’ to protect Americans, no one is ‘rooting’ for him to fail, most are rooting for him to grow a pair and act like he gives a sh*t. Even as we speak, he is still allowing an AQ flag to fly over soverign American territory and hasn’t said one damn thing about what he intends to do about it. That is exactly equivalent to allowing AQ to take over a US Navy ship and hoist their flag on it. Do you really expect someone to respect someone that has shown zero interest in the whole damn situation? He’s a clown, and an incompetent one at that.
The unfortunate fact of Christopher Stevens’ death has been of interest to the right chiefly as a means to attack the Obama administration since the moment the news broke. Those who initially rejected the tactic were quickly brought into line.
That sort of behavior doesn’t go unnoticed. Except, of course, by the people who are guilty of it, and are too caught up in their narrative to notice how it’s being received outside their own circle. It isn’t being received well. This will eventually sink in.
@Greggie: You said:
Okay, here ya go:
Hey, here we go: “According to senior diplomatic sources . . .” That’s what we’ve got for the source in both Independent articles. And then the third article quotes The Independent as its source.
People on the right seem to have forgotten how to think critically. The fact that you read something in a newspaper doesn’t necessarily make it true. At what point was that forgotten?
This is total bullshit. The consulate wasn’t better protected because it was a newly opened, temporary facility. No Marines were posted there because at such facilities they generally aren’t. Contracting local security forces is the normal arrangement. When you eventually get a permanent embassy facility, then you’ll have bulletproof glass, reinforced doors, etc.
The business about ambassadors elsewhere having taken away their Marine guards’ ammunition is also total bullshit. Or a lie. Choose the term you like best.
The reason why Valerie Jarrett gets security? She has so much garbage on the cabinet it would ruin and engender jail time for several dozen of the felons that are in the current cabinet members. She is still drawing a very nice federal salary despite having been allegedly terminated. Need to look closely at the salaries and expenditures of the cabinet budget-nicely hidden.
It hasn’t gone un-noticed that your entire spiel has been to criticize the “right” for their reactions while never mentioning the fact that an Ambassador was killed because of the lack of care and actions by Empty Chair. Had Zero(EC) made any attempt to take some responsibility (remember where the buck stops) for the actions (actually the lack of) of his esteemed Secretary of State and his Security advisors (example: seeing that he went to PDB meetings) maybe he would get a little sympathy. But no, all he has done is blame the Constitution for allowing Americans too much freedom. (the freedom to make a comedy you tube video). If Zero (EC) is getting negative press, it’s due to your very own Left Stream Media (and they love him).
You’re right, EC’s aptitude and ineptness will finally hit home, it already has begun.
“The unfortunate fact of Christopher Stevens’ death”
No, you stupid clown. It was not an “unfortunate fact” with no more importance than writing a hot check. It was an assassination by people that the Secretary of State and our intel departments had been warned about weeks ago.
Oh, but you say, the Consulate was “recently opened” and that is why our Ambassador was left hanging out to die. Gee, did it ever occur to you, in your mindless attempt to make excuses for the radical who now occupies the Oval Office, that WE build that damn Consulate? So explain that, Gregmeister. Explain why bullet proof glass and doors were not installed. Explain why the only security there was simple door locks and a few surveilance cameras. Explain why a Libyan minister, who had breakfast with Chris Stevens that very morning, had complained about the lack of security around Stevens. Explain why there were no Marines assigned to Stevens, yet our Consulates in London have them. Perhaps Obama is afraid of those violent Brits who are pissed over the Winston Churchill bust.
Do you know what “perimeter” means, asshole? There were FOUR Libyan military on the perimeter as security. THAT’S IT. No inside security. NONE.
My God, Greg, Americans are dead. The CIC and his lapdog Secretary of State ignored all the warnings and you can make excuses for them? You are dispicable.
Greg, sorry but the “total bullshit” here is coming from you on this one. Even liberal, Hillary supporter, former CIA Larry Johnson at No Quarter is giving Hillary “no quarter” on this egregious error.
From a previous post, he pointed out an additional ugly detail to the deaths.
You now not only have deaths, but valuable intel assets endangered because the State Dept did not provide Marine Security Guards, who’s prime tasks are to protect the theft of highly classified materials. The question is, will an Obama friendly press hammer him on this loss, in addition to the tragic deaths? I’m not guessing most will this close to the election. But if they do, Obama will find it necessary to find a way to toss Hillary under the bus, without riling up Teflon Bill and damaging the Clinton name.
That region of Libya was central to the rebels overthrow of Gaddafi… the same rebels who still prefer autonomy, if given the choice. A remote facility in Benghazi, who’s likely only reason for existing was “to provide cover for intelligence activities” would be known to house sensitive documentation, and absolutely required the presence of a force to protect that intelligence. There is no reason that the State could not have exercised it’s powers to do so, and was derelict in not doing so considering the fragility of that State still.
I will say this… this error likely falls on Hillary’s shoulders, and her’s alone. I would bet that Obama manages the tone and direction of her State Dept policies, but he would leave the decisions of micromanagement – including when and where to place Marine Security Guards to protect classified materials – solely up to her judgment. So you can be assured that, if more focus comes on this secondary effect atop the deaths, Obama will find a way to distance himself prior to Nov and escape criticism by his devotees.
But it’s serious enough since, if you read thru the No Quarter forum comments – virtually unshakeable Hillary supporters before – they find this unforgivable from a woman they placed so much faith in.
In this you are correct. I’ve cleaned up this media disinformation in my comment to James Raider yesterday, providing the text of the Marine Corps statement that the Marines always have live ammo. However, when it came to Libya’s Tripoli or Benghazi facilities, the error was there were no Marines present at all.
The Independent again? Pardon my skepticism. The Independent’s ready access to oddly chatty, unnamed “senior diplomatic sources,” and to details concerning the disposition of highly classified information, strikes me as highly improbable. I’m inclined to attribute it to creative writing and irresponsible public speculation about things that cannot be proved and are impossible to conclusively disprove. No doubt such writing sells a hell of a lot of newspapers. I think people are willing to uncritically take the stories for the truth because they reinforce their preconceived notions, and because they provide new avenues of attack on the Obama administration.
I don’t pretend to know exactly what a diplomatic mission was doing in Benghazi. Intelligence gathering is highly probable. Most likely the consulate also provided an open line of communication with friendly elements. At this early stage, no one would think their primary business was providing assistance to American tourists and passing out visas. I’m sure that no one there was unaware of the dangerous nature of the job. Relying on local contracted security was most likely a calculated risk. My own guess is that they were deliberately trying to avoid giving the appearance of a fortified compound, in order to facilitate the work they were doing. In retrospect that was an error, and one that had tragic consequences.
It really burns me that the first thought of some Americans would be to latch onto that tragedy as an exploitable political opportunity. I assume you have your own private thoughts about that. I also find it disheartening. The fracture in the nation is much worse than I thought.
Let’s try to sort out your exorcist-like head spinning here. You think “intelligence gathering is highly probable”, but you consider details for the disposition of that “intelligence gathering” following a fully breached facility as “highly improbable”?
Maybe we should start with the easy stuff to keep your head on straight, Greg.
1: Obviously an area like Benghazi is hardly the tourist mecca, requiring facilitation of passports etc. So would you concur (as you seem to) that it was an “intelligence gathering” facility or not?
2: Being as that was it’s purpose, do you think there was any “intelligence” held in that facility?
3: If it was housing “intelligence”, should it not warrant Marine Security Guards, who prime task is to guard “intelligence”?
4: If there was “intelligence” there, and considering that the facility is fully breached, would you conclude that those successfully attacking the facility now have said “intelligence” since there were no Marine Security Guards to prevent that?
When I handled classified material over 40 years ago in a military communications bunker, all of our critical machines were marked with yellow circles. That was the spot toward which you’d point a .45 to destroy it, if we were overrun. We also had a protocol for the prompt destruction of all classified communications. I assume a present-day consulate located in an unstable environment had a similar protocol, and that every person on board would have gone down trying to execute it. These guys were professionals.
I believe thermite is the norm these days for quickly killing laptop computers and their hard drives. It’s certain and it takes a matter of seconds.
Tell us about the time you walked on the moon, or is that classified?
I suspect the only real world security issue you’ve ever dealt with involves making certain your fly is zipped up before you leave the house each morning. Other people have had a somewhat wider range of experiences.
I’m relatively sure it still classified. Notice that he talked all around Mata’s questions and totally avoided answering them. Greg, I think you overlooked the fact that there was no one there to do that destruction, remember, they had NO SECURITY as per the lack of directions of the imminent Secretary of State.
And with your ‘working theory’ that this was spontaneous, rockets and co-ordinated off site weapons firing into the area. Certainly sounds ‘spontaneous’ About as spontaneous as a speeder being stopped in a speed trap. You can talk in circles all day, but the buck stops somewhere, it used to be the Oval office, now it seems as if you think it should be in the other party’s candidate. That should have been in the Sunday Funnies.
They had contracted Libyan security, and private contracted security that were former Navy Seals. How long does it take such information to sink in and be processed? They themselves were there to destroy classified material. You don’t know that they didn’t.
The administration has been criticized for their decisions in retrospect. In retrospect, it would have been better to have had a full company of Marines and a heavily fortified compound. In hindsight, anyone can expound on how things could have been. Hindsight doesn’t count for squat.
The ambassador and his staff are being portrayed as hapless victims, who had nothing to say about their circumstances. That’s not very likely. The people on the ground have a lot to say about that.
Probably as long as it takes for it to sink in for you as to the tasks of all these individuals associated, and what they are actually protecting. Maybe it’s different than 40 years ago, or perhaps you are assuming everyone is employed for the same reason.
The permimeter is protected by the host country. Marine Security Guards protect the classified information and, if the building is breached they protect that first and also aid in the safety of the diplomats. Diplomatic Security Officers are members of the Foreign Service, and function in a more managerial position for the facility’s staff – i.e. investigating visa fraud, screening potential employees and liaisons with the host security tasks.
Private Security Contractors are tasked with maintaining security outside of the facility. They are often stationed at the perimeter to check entry IDs, and are not necessarily US citizens. Many are citizens of the host country.
So neither the Libyan security or private contractors – even tho the private contractors were former SEALs – are in charge (or even cleared) of/for protecting classified intel housed in the facility.
For your education, Sharon Weinberger at Popular Mechanics dove into the who and what’s of diplomatic security.
You can try as you might, but when it comes to lost sensitive documents, and the death of diplomats, those tasked foremost with the intel, and secondly with protecting the diplomats, are Marine Security Guards…. the guys who were MIA in appointed duties at Benghazi. The State Dept has the full power to place them at these facilities, and it does not have to take years.
I think it’s safe to say that even having the Marine Security Guards wouldn’t have prevented the attack, nor the over running of the facility. But they may have been able to save some lives, and to destroy the intel before it was absconded by the bad guys.
I believe I suggested to someone here 3 or 4 days ago that they should look up the function of Marine Corps Embassy Security Group detachments. I’m aware of what they do and of their mission priorities. I’m also aware that they’re not assigned to all diplomatic locations, and that where they are assigned, they’re often present in very low numbers–there’s a minimum detachment size of 5, I believe. There are reasons to have them, and there are sometimes reasons not to have them. That decision probably isn’t made by flipping a coin.
In other locations, security of classified data is the responsibility of the staff. People might very much want to make a case that important secret documents were scattered around on desktops and in office file cabinets, and have now fallen into hostile hands, but I’m not going for it. I’m figuring that any sensitive data that resided locally–and these days, there’s really not much of a need for that–was encrypted on password protected computer hard drives, and that those hard drives all went up in bright flashes and were reduced to smoking metal and plastic as soon as it became apparent there was danger of the facility being breached. That would have been the first order of business.
@Greg, you’re still running into a dead end on the State Dept’s responsibility.
I already posted a link to the Marine Corps statement in my comment #95. I provided this to James Raider, and already a couple of times here on various threads. They addressed the MCESGs in that statement:
We have three discussions it seems. The first is who’s responsibility it is to protect classified information. Both of us agree that it is the Marines. It is not the Libyan Security, the diplomats or staff, or the Private Contractors, some of those you mentioned above.
The second discussion is whether that got done. Of course not since there were no MCESGs stationed at the consulate, or at Tripoli’s Embassy.
The third discussion is could it have been done, should it have been done, and who’s responsibility is that? And those answers are yes, yes, and the State Dept.
Nor did the State Dept think the security threat was enough to send a FAST platoon. Whether the intel was specific enough or not, I’m not in the “need to know” category to comment. But it’s beyond absurd to have a facility in eastern Libya, where activity and rogue groups remain active and armed, to house intelligence and not have a Marines present to do the job they can do… and that the State Dept can provide.