After much contemplation of how to put into words the current struggle between the Republican Establishment and the ever growing disgruntled Conservative base I found this to be the best way to explain the situation as I view it…
A man walks across the street from his house to GOP Motors, a local franchise that he and his family have done business with for many years. One the lot are four vehicles, 2 new pickup trucks, one covered by a tarp, a beat up old blue pickup truck with a plow next to the garage. He spots a man in a suit and tie standing in the lot whistling to himself and looking for all intents and purposes a man who could be of some assistance. Walking over to the man our story begins.
Joe: Hi. My name is Joe Blow and I see you have 2 new pick up trucks for sale. That’s just what I am looking for. See, I got a good chance at landing this job that requires me to be able to negotiate rough terrain, haul tools and material, and be reliable. Another guy has been doing this job, but he is about to be fired and if I can get on over to the job site, the job is mine. With this economy I cant afford not to get it. So I am in a hurry and I want to buy one of your new pick up trucks. I want to look at the white one first.
The sales man listens intently, nods a few times, and extends his hand for a handshake.
Reg: Well how do you do Joe! My name is Republican Establishment Guy but you can call me Reg. Friend, I hear what your saying and I know I got the right vehicle for you! I know you think you need white pickup truck but I’ve got some thing better then that that’s gonna knock rock your world! With dramatic flourish he reaches over and whips the tarp off the vehicle it has been hiding. Suddenly confetti is being shot from a fake cannons. A marching band starts playing a catchy little pop tune. Balloons are released. Mini pyrotechnics are spewing sparks beside the uncovered vehicle. Reb is vibrating with excitement! He is grinning from ear to ear as he dances over to you.
Reg: Now that’s what ya want right there Joe! State of the art, high tech, and very popular with the ladies! The Romney Volt is exactly what you need! Lets get on into the office and do the paperwork. Reg starts skipping off to the office pumping his fist in the air. Joe stands there confused . He turns to the direction Reg is going.
Joe: Hey Reg! Lets slow down a second alright. Reg turns around and skips back over humming the tune the band was playing with a confused look on his face.
Reg: What’s the matter Joe? The color? Oh we can change that no big deal if that’s the issue. Hell this Romney Volt was designed with the ability to change its color to match whatever colorer the person looking at it wants to see. Watch! Reg closes his eyes, squints, and stares at the Romney Volt. Suddenly the color scheme of the car morphs into a sickly yellow with a pink tint.
Joe: Well Reg, thats neat and all but the color is not the issue. It’s the car. Actually it’s the fact that its a car and not a pickup truck like I need. I already have a McPrius in the driveway on cinderblocks that I bought from you a few years ago that doesn’t run anymore. What I need is a pickup truck.
Joe starts walking over to the white pick up. It is a Dodge Palin with the Alaska package. Big tires, lift kit, big shiny tool box in the back and a electric winch in the front. Just what Joe is looking for. Joe turns to Reb. Joe: This is what I want. I can get to the job site no matter where it is. I got a safe place for my tools, a big bed for the materials, and even a winch I can put to good use. Lets go into the office and discuss the terms and..
Reg: Oh come on! You don’t want the Dodge Palin. The Romney Volt is what you need. I mean look at that beauty! Its even eco friendly! All the chicks dig it! That magic paint job! You gotta get this thing!
Joe: Naw Reg. I want the pick up truck. Lets go get this done. I don’t want to lose a chance at getting this job. Joe turns towards the office takes 3 steps and hears SMASH! Turning around Joe sees Reg with a sledgehammer, breaking the windows, caving in the fenders, knocking off the mirrors. Shocked Joe runs over to Reg who is smiling as he walks away from the Dodge Palin, drops the sledgehammer , and wipes his hands briskly together.
Joe: What the hell did you do that for! Reg: I was saving you from yourself! Now that that’s settled, lets get you in that Romney Volt! Joe is dumbfounded. He doesn’t know what to say. He has heard a few stories in town saying that Reg has been acting a little erratic lately. Some say it all started when Tea Party Auto opened up a couple of years ago down the road. People had been telling Reg for a while now that they were getting tired of the limited selection he had on his lot for sale and promising things that he couldn’t deliver on. It was really bound to happen but Reg just kept ignoring his customers.
Joe thinks for a few seconds realizing he is pressed for time and doesn’t want to lose the job he starts to walk over to the black pickup truck. Joe: Alright Reg, I know you’ve been having a bit of a hard time with Tea Party Auto opening up a while ago so lets just put that incident behind us and take a look at that black Ford HurriCain. Joe walks over, kicks the tires. The Ford hurriCain is a bit smaller then the Dodge Palin. It does have a solid engine, no winch though, but its four wheel drive and it looks like it can do what he needs. He will just keep his tools in the cab. No big deal.
Over walks Reg. Reg: Joe, you don’t want that thing. It make look ok but I am telling you its not going to do what that Romney Volt can.
Joe: Ok, Reg. I know you want me to buy the Romney Volt. Like I said though Reg, I don’t want the Romney Volt. Its not going to do what I need it to do. I need this for a job. I don’t care about magic paint or that the thing is ‘eco’ whatever. I just want a pickup truck.
Reg: Its not what your looking for Joe. I know these things.
Joe: Enough Reg, I want the pickup. Lets just go to the office and get the paperwork done. Tell ya what. I will even do the registering with the state and all that myself. Ok?
Reg: Fine! But your going to be sorry.
Joe: I think I will be alright. Now you are not going to grab that sledgehammer again are you Reg? Reg smiles and shrugs.
Reb: Nope!
Joe: Good come on lets get to the office so I can get going. Joe and Reg head to the office. About halfway to the door Joe hears a loud WHOOSH! Turning around he sees three men dressed as ninjas slashing the tires, cutting brake lines, and finally lobbing a Molotov cocktail into the cab. As flames start engulfing the cab the three ninjas disappear into the woods.
Reg: Oh man! That’s some tough luck Joe! I cant believe that happened! That’s the zanyist thing I have ever seen. Lucky for you I still have that shiny Romney Volt!
Joe: What the hell is wrong with you Reg?! Are you flipping insane?! I don’t want the damn Romney Volt OK?! I need a pickup truck Rebg! What the hell is it about this freakin’ Romney Volt that has you destroying the rest of your inventory?! Jesus to Pete man!
Reg: Its because the Romney Volt is the best car ever! Its shiny! Its clean! Its been poll tested to show that independent car shoppers between the age of 18-45 might like it. Plus if you don’t buy it its your fault I will go out of business!
Joe cannot believe the words that just came out of Rebs mouth. My fault he goes out of business? What the hell? He could have just sold me the damn pick up and he would have the Romney Volt to sell to some professor from the Democrat University. They love these things. This man is bat shit crazy. I should just walk on down to Tea Party Auto but I don’t have the time. He walks over to Reg.
Joe: Ok that’s it! That beat up blue Chevy Newt with the plow on it.
Reg: That rusty old thing with all the dents?
Joe: Yes. That rusty old PICKUP with all the dents. I want it. I will give you the cost of your precious little Romney Volt plus the Chevy Newt on top. I will take care of the registration and all that crap. I am going to pay you in cash right here right now. On top of that I will plow your lot for free in the winter because I have a feeling the police are going to be showing up soon to take you into protective custody and you may be gone for a while. Lets just go get the keys so I can get the hell out of here!
Reg is beat red. His face is twisted into a snarl so contorted his eyes are watering. He looks as if he is about to explode. He blurts out. Reg: Your wife is ugly! You’re a backwater hick! You daughters a slut and you are not leaving this lot unless its in my Romney Volt! That’s final! End of story! Because if you don’t buy my Romeny Volt niether one of us is leaving this sales lot alive!
Suddenly Reg pulls a grenade out of his pocket and with a wry smile puts his finger through the pin ring.
Reb: So now what are you going to do now big guy!
A man in a big black bus drives by. Looking out the window between practice putts he has been sending down the isle he sees two men. One throwing his hands up in the air turns to walk away. The other is yanking something away from a round object in his hand and reaching for the other man. He smiles to himself as he settles over his next putt and whispers “Job security, gotta love it.”
A few seconds later, in the distance could be heard a faint boom.
He is just a fat guy in Maine.
Ditto As Mata suggested I have no problem with recruiters on campus Re a draft, Larry said it quite succinctly “skin in the game”
@Ditto: Joe Lieberman is an example to the contrary (perhaps–I’m not sure about that), not proof I’m wrong. When Obamacare was being debated, I participated in forums held by Congressional representatives on the left coast. The fascinating thing about the *crowds* that attended? Virtually everyone there was rabidly opposed to Obamacare. Some of us were opposed because it was too liberal; close to 50% of the crowd was opposed . . . because Obamacare was too conservative.
Hi Cry. Count me among those who were opposed. I wanted Medicare for all. What I got was a warmed over Heritage Foundation plan. Without any public option at all. And ObamaCare sold out to Big Pharma, by prohibiting national-level negotiation on drug pricing.
I view ObmaCare as being a pretty conservative piece of legislation.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: You said:
If I may, I think that the idea is that the leftist ideology makes possible the type of idiocy seen in the video. Because once you stray from the idea of family values and a higher moral order then people don’t perceive such actions as wrong.
@anticsrocks:
Thanks AS and Gary (#100), for trying once more to make my point.
To Larry, did the “left” actually sit down and decide to hold a public parent/kid kiss rally? Probably not, but the bigger point, which many of us have now tried to make, is that not only had one of the administrators or teachers had to introduce it as “fun”, but the other adults found nothing wrong with it, consequently, we continue down the “slippery slope” this time sending the message that incest ain’t so bad, heck, can even be “fun.”
That said Larry, I don’t think for a minute that you don’t think it’s sick or “bad parenting”, but the fact that you see it as “don’t sweat the small stuff”, (along with many, including conservatives, who stay silent), is exactly how we get our kids to the gutter they are in.
My main point in this entire thread is that social issues matter, big time. Other than than those based in Judeo/Christian values, or at least a respect for the 10 commandments even without a religious conviction, there simply is no moral standard, which is exactly why most things in America are now rationalized from outrageous crony capitalism, profligate spending, a stock market turned casino, greedy self serving politicians, and immorality and humiliation (thanks largey to reality TV) the norm, even among our kids. Last but not least, don’t forget who the “bigger” parent is with our kids, state and federal governments.
Consequently, only a refurbished RHNO, can keep the party going, as it’s more than obvious, most are in too deep to want to get out.
Merry Christmas Everyone! I’m off to celebrate it while it’s still legal, despite our elected congress forbidden to mention the “C” word or even worse, the first family on their “holiday” card, not to mention the national Christmas Tree honoring who else but Obama and the diversity of the state of California.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-capitol-christmas-tree-pays-homage-obama-not-jesus
We may be a train wreck of a country but no one can deny that we are “politically correct”, whew!
Ya know, you constantly tell me you don’t engage in “talking points”… and yet there ya go again.
The links to both the Heritage plans are provided in my comment #34. To suggest that the options provided by economist Stuart Butler resembles O’healthcare is like saying your top of the line Ferrari is a warmed over version of my kiddy go cart because they both have wheels.
But I do see that when you latch on to what you think is a “winning” piece of propaganda, you’ll be promoting it at every opportunity. And we call that “talking points”…..
Hi Patricia,
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said “don’t sweat the small stuff,” regarding the cougar mom making out with her son. What I was talking about is that youtube is full of stuff which I find frankly nauseating and talk radio is full of stuff which I find frankly nauseating and even MSM is full of stuff I find frankly nauseating. Cougar mom is a very bad parent. But she’s no worse than the parents who dress their 10 year olds as sluts or buy their teenage boys muscle cars or who have a home culture of alcohol abuse and substance abuse and in their children’s face hedonism.
I get it. There’s just something about the cougar mom video which touches a raw nerve in you and makes it the most important thing in the world for you, right now, practically. For me, it just gets buried in the background noise of cultural nausea.
The idea that liberals promote a culture of incest is proof of how difficult it is to have a political dialogue across the aisle these days.
It all started with Gingrich and Limbaugh, in my opinion. Liberals always criticized conservatives, but you didn’t have the Democratic Speaker of the House referring to Republicans as “pathetic” and the like. But who ever started it, this is what we have today.
And it’s really sad.
Liberals promote incest.
How on earth are we ever going to be able to solve the problems of the nation, with attitudes like that toward each other?
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
???
First let me agree that I don’t think that lib/progs “promote” incest any more than conservatives do. That said, I will also agree with Patricia that a cavalier attitude towards such behavior doesn’t do much in combating it either.
I believe that what Patricia was trying to convey to you, obviously unsuccessfully, is that this “love the one you’re with” and “why don’t we do it in the road” social mentality truly is the heart of liberal (and libertarian) beliefs. While many liberal families differ little in their family values from conservative families, it is obvious that one side of the equation tends to speak out in defiance more stridently than the other. I suspect not doing so comes from some sort of perceived self superiority in being “more tolerant”… definitely a banner the liberal world attempts to claim proudly.
When you combine this widened spectrum of “tolerance” with a concerted effort to ban the mere mention of a Christian God from any public event, there has been a marked decline in social morality. When kids are raised (i.e. your “bad parenting”) that pretty much all behavior is a personal choice and beyond societal judgment under the “tolerance” banner, or when simple civil society rules like the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule are not impressed upon the young (or even forbidden in many instances), we suffer in our culture. When racy sexual behavior is the bill of fare on TV and in ads, and made to appear exciting, adventurous and quite acceptable, it will become an “anything goes” mentality.
Part of society, and parenting, is impressing the young with the basics of right and wrong that you find in religion, or even civil behavior rooted in Golden Rule logic. A culture and society cannot continue to exist if they become so “tolerant” as to be overly accepting of what is dangerously unhealthy behavior as a cohabiting species.
Generally it’s assumed that conservatives trend towards a more traditional family value… marriage, parents of opposite sex, perhaps (or not) some modicum of moral behavior, etc. As I said, I think that a majority of lib/progs and their families share those values. But where the divide starts becoming more apparent is when there are demands for government intervention – to codify marriage, relationships and definitions, i.e. demanding licenses and official government recognition for what used to be a religious rite only.
There are two reasons for the demand that government codify definitions, and insert themselves into this:
1: For doling out taxpayer cash in benefits, and now the demand to equalize it for same sex couples
2: To socially indoctrinate generations into a new norm by government officially equating marriage between and man and a woman as no different than a same sex “marriage”… and whatever slippery slopes that ensue. After all, if you contrive government definitions for what was a religious rite, you can’t be discriminating against other religions definitions in our nation. Therefore polygamy, bestiality… all kinds of weird “religions” around (or can be instantly created)… may meet a government’s definition of a “religion”.
And, ya know, they’d have a really good argument. If same sex is good for equal consideration for taxpayer cash bennies, why not multiple partners in religions that recognize polygamy as the norm? If they don’t treat all the same, they are pronouncing one religion superior to moral concept to another… and that is not allowable for our government as founded.
Marriage, to me, has always been a rite established in religious beliefs. In the past, people weren’t required to jump thru government hoops and paperwork in order to marry. Might have entailed getting Dad’s permission and dodging the shotgun, tho… But once the feds, states and local governments poked their noses under that tent, and linked this rite to benefits, they assumed control of definitions of what constituted marriage. After all the bruhaha over the years, I’ve decided to pursue my original gut instincts on this marriage vs civil unions vs other multi party unions.
My solution to #1 is simple… Eliminate all government benefits that relate to marriage and relationships, and the battle goes away.
Married couples would continue their rites in churches or in private ceremonies, as would same sex couples. It’s a personal commitment that requires no government stamp of approval, no licensing. Who cares whether the government looks at you as married, via their definition, or not because there is no benefit one way or another. Problem solved.
This isn’t linked to kids and dependents living in the home… just to the specific relationship of the parents or custodians of the kids.
This, of course, brings me to the more complex political agenda of #2. The intent of the LGBT movement is to indoctrinate society into viewing their lives as normal and equal. If they cannot accomplish this by altering or influencing social views of those steeped into religious beliefs, they intend to just get the government stamp of good housekeeping approval on it, with bestowed benefits. Once government sanctions a “class” of people as acceptable for benefits, it tends to influence acceptability in future generations… just as the civil rights movements fomented better race relations over time.
Needless to say, the LGBT movement would not be happy with the idea of eliminating all benefits based on relationships. If they cannot be portrayed a victim nationally, deprived of what is given to others, they cannot raise their status by using government.
As to the Gingrich/Limbaugh accusation. Well, Larry… you sure didn’t redeem yourself with any moral high ground on that one. You accuse Patricia of leaping to partisan conclusions, then turn around and do the same yourself. And you’re certainly going to be dumpster diving if you think that the lib/prog leadership does not indulge in hateful rhetoric against the opposition.
I do not recall any instance where either Gingrich or Limbaugh has accused “liberals” of promoting incest. Limbaugh did take on the Columbia Spectator, newspaper of Columbia U’s journalism students, about an article they ran which attracted comments by readers that did, indeed, defend a professor accused of incest. The newspaper took exception to Rush holding them responsible for their readers comments. I agree. So did Rush, and he apologized for holding the newspaper responsible for their commenters.
However it’s not much of a victory when you consider that, even were it not the position of the paper, it was the position of many to defend incest who read that paper. Doesn’t exactly bode well to see that the “cavalier” attitudes of tolerance has now shifted more into “acceptance” of what is truly an aberration of the human species I don’t believe there is any medical studies that look glowingly upon inbreeding as healthy reproduction for future generations.
Gingrich? His only foray into the incest world was to come under fire from conservatives because he supported abortions for those who were victims of incest or rape.
So since you are demanding that Patricia clarify her accusations, linking these weirdo mothers (and likely very embarrassed sons afterwards) to liberals, I suggest you do the same.
When and if we ever agree on truth, see things for what they are (reality), and act accordingly.
@Cry, Beloved Country:
You made an encompassing statement to point out what you said was a difference between grassroot Dems & Reps. The fact that far-left Democrats tried to remove their sole remaining conservative from the Senate proves your statement was WRONG. Democrats who were not ideologically bound rejected the far-left Democrats Candidate, and voted for the now Independent Senator Lieberman, who of course won the election. Or do you not include far-left Democratic ideologues as as part of the party’s “grass roots.”
@MataHarley:
That wasn’t a direct reply to Richard or Larry, but only a general observation from decades of listening to some Democrats regarding those two subjects.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: You said:
It is monumentally amazing how much you just don’t get it. The fact that it is background noise shows the divide we are facing in this country.
Hi Antics. You and Patricia seemed determined to claim the moral high ground.
What is worse: a single video clip of parents behaving badly, or a litany of parishes and archdioceses which ignored and covered up frank pedophilia. Patricia has a history of repeatedly making excuses for the latter, and denying the later, even though the latter has been documented to have involved thousands of innocent children much younger than the young man being abused by his mother.
How may children are raised in homes where the father comes home drunk or drugged and beats up the mother? How many children are exposed to drug addicted prostitute mothers who turn tricks in their home apartments? Or mothers who bring boyfriends home for sleepovers. I could go on and on and on.
We all have societal issues which strike raw nerves to a greater degree than others. Of course, the cougar mom thing is tremendously upsetting, and if there were some evidence that this was in any way representative of the behavior of a substantial portion of moms in our society, then I’d be upset, too. But I just raised two kids through teenagerhood to young adulthood, and I never once saw anything like that, while I did see parents getting disgustingly drunk on occasions where they were responsible for chaperoning activities of groups of young people.
I am livid with what appears to have happened at Penn State. I am livid over the grotesquely distorted values of the bishops and archbishops, as evidenced by their global concern for putting the reputation of the Church above the safety of their innocent child congregants. I am disgusted by a great many other things. But I see no evidence at all that the curious case of the cougar mom and her son is in anyway representative of any sort of national trend. It’s entirely appropriate that those most bothered by this take it up as a cause celebre. We all pick the causes for which we have the time and energy to fight.
You want me to sign a petition condemning such behavior? Absolutely, show me where to sign. Am I going to put my life on hold and devote myself to leading the petition drive for something which looks like one bit of bizarrely disgusting behavior? It’s frankly not the highest thing on my current priority list, but I’m glad that Patricia is devoting herself to this cause.
Just don’t go claiming that liberals promote incest. Stuff like that doesn’t help anyone.
P.S. Mata. I never said Gingrich or Limbaugh accused liberals of promoting incest. I said that Patricia accused liberals of promoting incest. I said that Gingrich, as Speaker of the House, intentionally went out of his was to use the term “pathetic” (and similar) to refer to the Democratic Party opposition and that language like that was unprecedented for a person in the highest congressional leadership positions and that it contributed mightily to the present poisonous political climate, which too often manifests itself right here on this blog.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Thanks for the clarification, Larry. Altho I’d hardly consider “pathetic” a heinous insult when speaking of opposition in the political world Nor do I believe that vicious and dirty politics began with Newt Gingrich or in the 90s. If you do, then I suggest you might want to brush up on some reading INRE the battles during our founding and in the years that followed. I’ll think you’ll learn it’s always been dirty business.
And perhaps you should be reminded of one of the filthiest in history… LBJ’s campaign as incumbent against Goldwater. Those children’s coloring books, so they could color Goldwater dressed in KKK robes, was a particularly “nice” touch… /sarc
And this was from a man who had ascended to the Oval Office via JFK’s assassination, and was a sitting POTUS running a campaign.
Now, what was that about that “pathetic” insult again?
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Now, if you are off your soap box, I will respond.
Bringing a whole litany of straw men arguments into this does nothing for the discussion, Larry. I am surprised that you would stoop to that tactic.
What I said, and will continue to say is that the left’s abandonment of religion/moral order/civil society or whatever you wish to call it is what leads to a whole gymnasium full of parents who think it is side splittingly funny to trick their kids into make out sessions.
If you think it is okay behavior, more power to you Larry. I don’t happen to subscribe to the notion that it is acceptable.
Anticsrocks I’ve got to agree with Larry this Couger mom thing doesn’t rise to the level of concern of Sandusky’s child molestatin or the problems within the Catholic priesthood.
This couger thing also evident in awful ” Real housewives from wherever” shows.
What’s the bet the majority of those women with “store bought” body parts are Repubs? LOL
How you feeling?
@Richard Wheeler: My health is status quo for now, which is a good thing, I suppose.
As for the cougar mom thing, you must have missed my strawmen comment here.
You cannot win an argument when you compare apples and oranges. Of course the Sandusky scandal is orders of magnitude worse than the stupid kissing video. Duh. However they are not even remotely the same thing.
anticsrocks
hi,
yes that is right, every bad thing has a degree but is always bad, we cannot compare one by the other,
it at the end is good or bad , period.
the best of CHRISTMAS FOR YOU AND LOVED ONES,
Richard, Larry W, and anyone else who feels likewise, just want to make on last point on this. Of COURSE the video we have been discussing doesn’t come close to Sandusky or the Catholic Church Crisis (which BTW Larry, I do abhor, just don’t appreicate every good priest being made into the equal of few very bad men).
Larry you made my point the best when you refered to the cougar mom thing as (if I remember correctly), “background noise.” Do you not realize that all of the things you rightly hate (you listed them in one of the above posts), also ALL started as “background nose.” If there is any point necessary to be made, it IS that “backround noise” ignored, becomes the next moral devolution of our culture, be it by those who laugh at how “fun” it is, or those who find it disgusting and stay silent.
As pronography grows into a 2 billion dollar industry, with close to 70% of Americans addicted, including teenagers, I wonder how many disgusted by it (at least for the sake of the victims), ever speak or spoke out against it.
When it comes to morality, its all one in the same, perhaps best described as something that started out as “background noise.”
Now back to my Christmas vacation!
Patricia says 70% of Americans addicted to pornography.Not so. Quite possible though that 70% of Americans don’t like the same movies,music and art that you prefer.
Example I love The Stones,Seager and Petty.You may love Sinatra and Hank Williams
One persons “porn” may be anothers art.We can’t force our judgements on others.
Freedom of speech should always trump censorship.
That being said if someone engages in illegal acts they should be punished to full extent of the law.
Hi Patricia (#121). This is one of those classic “Cool Hand Luke” situations where we have a failure to communicate. I don’t think that there is really any disagreement between us, other than the fact that you think that liberals are behind some sort of nascent epidemic of incest and I do not.
Let me explain “background noise.” There was obviously something about the Minnesota cougar mom video which struck a raw nerve in you. It became the focal point of your moral outrage, at that particular moment in time. But I know that I could go to Google video or youtube and find a half dozen things which got posted online last week that were equally outrageous and probably even more outrageous. Were I to take the position of you and Antics, I could criticize both of you for not recognizing the evil in these particular videos and for not immediately putting your lives on hold to go blogging about them and expressing your indignation and moral outrage.
I was simply saying that, yes, I agree with what you wrote about the reprehensibility of the actions depicted on the video. But, number one, it’s the cheapest of cheap shots to try to use this video to make some sort of moral judgement about people who vote for Democrats and, number two, I have no reason to believe that this is anything more than an individual example of egregiously bad parenting. As I wrote, I was heavily invested in the high school parenting scene myself, a few years back, and I never saw anything remotely resembling that, while I did see some very bad parenting relating to things that I consider to be as bad or worse than what was depicted in that video. Dressing 10 year old girls like sluts. Giving outrageously expensive gifts as rewards for winning athletic performances and good grades. Being obviously drunk in parent chaperoning situations. Berating athletic officials in front of 50 children. On and on. And that’s real life, and not just an internet video clip.
One needs to choose one’s causes, or one risks becoming consumed and/or burned out. A single one off episode captured on a Minnesota video deserves taking note and agreeing with those who want to take this on as a cause. If your comment had just been to express moral outrage, then I’d have agreed with you whole-heartedly. Where you lost me was when you used this as Exhibit A in your attempt to make the moral decay in America into a matter of politics, particularly blaming (and scapegoating) those of us who trend toward punching our ballots for Democrats.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: At what point did I say that the left, liberals, socialists, shriners, Christmas Eelves or any other group are responsible for the teenage/opposite sex make out video that was cited above?
You keep lumping me in with some morally outraged group of folks that seem to have pitchfork and torch at the ready.
I will try this one last time –
I STATED THAT WHEN SOCIETY EDGES AWAY FROM THE MORAL ORDER/CIVIL CONTRACT/NUCLEAR FAMILY, etc…, THAT IT HELPS TO CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT THAT OCCURRED IN THAT GYMNASIUM WHERE PARENTS, TEACHERS AND STUDENTS ALL LAUGHED UPROARIOUSLY WHILE BOBBY MADE OUT WITH MOMMY.
Don’t think I can get much more clear than that.
As for saying that I need to be upset over videos that I have not yet viewed, well I think that dumb idea speaks for itself.
Merry Christmas
Hi Antics, My previous comment was addressed to Patricia and not to you. She was the one who accused liberals of promoting incest, not you.
As for the part where I mentioned you, it was merely in the context of a thought experiment. Let’s say that I spend a half hour searching for a youtube video which shows examples of bad parenting – let’s say getting drunk at a Pop Warner Football game in Texas and screaming at the referee in front of all the kids. Then I reference and link the video on this blog. But I then add a statement to the effect that this is an example of the way that conservatives in America are behind the decline in standards of sportsmanship, up to and including steroid use, in an attempt to gain a winning edge.
So you then (in my thought experiment) reply that, yes, you agree that the Pop Warner parent in question was behaving abominably, but no, you did not agree that this was indicative of a movement by conservatives to destroy remaining vestiges of fair play and sportsmanship. Furthermore, you might add, you’ve never seen anything in your life which was nearly the same thing depicted on the video, so you couldn’t get overly bent out of shape over a single anecdote which did not square with your life’s experience.
And then me and a liberal buddy don’t let you get away with saying that and make statements to the effect that this is self-evident of the way that conservatives just don’t care about the bad things happening in America, and, by their passivity, are promoting this cultural decline.
And the more I kept doubling down on my original charge (that conservatives condone unsportsmanlike behavior and doping in sport, through their passive acceptance, as evidenced by “Antics” not being more bent out of shape about it) the more offended you’d justifiably be.
As I said, though, this is really nothing more than a Cool Hand Luke failure to communicate. Let’s all just stipulate that bad parenting, incest, poor sportsmanship, and doping are all things to be both regretted and condemned.
And acknowledge that one’s major political affiliation does not define one’s character.
Merry Christmas.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
Richard Wheeler,
you mentioned you like the STONES SEAGER and PERRY,
I ‘m glad you do like all of them.
bye
@Richard Wheeler:
Here we go again.
At least you make my point Richard, that morality to those without Judeo Christian values or non-religious adherence to a code of morality such as the 10 commandments, “anything goes.” Just as many saw nothing wrong with couger moms, some see nothing wrong with pornography or the consequences of both. As Mata very nicely pointed out, those on the left usually see these things as “tolernece” while those with a standard of values see them as immorality. Do you see the problem Richard? One of us is wrong, very wrong.
Also, I vastly underestimated the addiction.
You also appear to confuse legality with license. Are un unaware the many things that are “legal” are immoral. Heck, just last week our congress approved beastiality for our military? Is that “moral.” How about partial birth abortions where a 9 months old ‘fetus’ can feel every oz of pain from his/her head being stabbed? How about the required LSBT education of our youth, or the sexual explicit shows that air in prime time, not to mention MTV? The list is endless, all the more demonstrating that as a country that was once the “lighthouse” or moral standards for the free world, we aren’t lookin’ so good these days.
Legal immoral acts are merely a license, certainly not morality, enabled by an immoral nation, or at least a majority of those whom we elect to lead us.
can someone get 125 out of spam; stuck in the “porn” spam
Can someone get 127 out of spam?
Consider yourself bailed out on those two, Patricia. But I guess the word is triggering the direction of the comment. Can’t fix that, nor would I. So if it happens again, just let one of us know.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
The whole reason I even started on this thread was to make the point that social issues matter, and that no politician is going to “fix” us until we get right with our morality, which is the root cause of all of our problems, from economic to immigration.
In fairness to you, indeed both sides contribute to the moral decline, however it’s hard to deny that the left is primarily run by “tolerence and feelings” while the right, despite a considerable amount of phonies, is run by those steeped in moral values consistant with Judeo/Christianity and or a secular respect for the 10 commandments or something similar beyond “self.”
Examples:
Only in a blue moon does the ACLU defend anything “religious”
It’s always the “left” who sue when prayer or the mention of God is allowed in schools
In all of battles of gay marriage, abortion, and stem cell research, those in favor are almost 100% on the left.
The list could go on and on, but look no further than “party platforms” to know what each stands for, despite the phonies on the right.
So yes, I would agree both sides share guit, but the left is the side that makes sure it’s “legal” to keep the immorality going.
Hi Patricia (#127):
Whom on this thread do you refer with the following comment?
WHO saw “nothing wrong” with the cougar moms? Who is the “many” who “saw nothing wrong?”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21676/stem-cell-research.aspx
Only 30% of Americans think stem cell research is morally wrong. 62% say it’s morally acceptable. You claim that those saying it is morally acceptable are “almost 100% on the left.” So you think that 60% of the people in this country are “on the left.” This would include Nancy Reagan, by the way. That’s a 2:1 margin favoring stem cell research, which is the closest you’ll come to identifying a “consensus” on any political issue today. Should the 30% opposed be allowed to impose its will on the 62% who favor?
This does not represent a moral failing among Americans. It represents a difference in personal and religious beliefs regarding what constitutes a human life. Fertilized egg. Early stage embryo. Late stage embryo. Early stage Fetus. Late stage fetus. Baby. The same people who call stem cell research morally wrong also condemn in vitro fertilization and the “excess” embryos which this creates. But this work has given many infertile couples beautiful children.
As to the other issues:
Abortion: No one is promoting this. No one thinks it’s a good thing. The dispute is not about abortion, but about to what degree the government gets to make this decision versus the woman in question gets to make the decision. This is not a difference in “morality;” it’s a difference of opinion on what the role of government ought to be in regulating people’s personal lives.
With regard to prayer in public schools, no one has ever said that children are not allowed to pray. Civil libertarians (including Libertarians, who are not exactly Leftists) don’t think that the state has any business organizing religious observances, such as organized prayer. Most people, including me, don’t have any problem at all with having periods of silent reflection, wherein those who wish to pray are perfectly welcome to pray. I don’t agree that the absence of group prayer in public schools is symptomatic of declining national morality. I do think that national morality is declining, but it’s got nothing to do with stem cell research or keeping the government out of people’s private lives.
In terms of gay marriage, this is either a constitutional issue or a matter of law at the state level. I twice voted against official government recognition of same gender marriage, and I’d do so again. Libertarians (who are not Leftists) believe that government has no business regulating any form of marriage and would just have marriage be a purely private matter. I don’t view this as a moral issue. I don’t oppose gay marriage because I believe it’s sacrilegious or anything like that; I’m opposed to gay marriage because same gender relationships are fundamentally different than opposite gender relationships (in terms of vulnerability differences between the different parties, including but not limited to in child rearing) and that the historical purpose of marriage is to protect women and children and that gay marriage threatens the degree to which marriage compacts are seriously valued in this country (and there are good research data to support my concerns in this area).
But the gay marriage issue has nothing to do with morality. I don’t think it’s immoral for two gay people to make promises to each other in front of whomever wishes to witness and bless and recognize the event. And I’m in favor of equal protection under the law, so I think that any two people (same sex, opposite sex) should be entitled to register to receive the same benefits and privileges and responsibilities as traditionally married people. Just don’t call it marriage. There was a thoughtful gay guy who suggested on this blog that it could be called “twainage.” That’s fine with me. That wouldn’t be confused with marriage in the minds of today’s twenty-somethings. But, again, this isn’t “morality;” it’s social contracts.
Now, if you insist that these matters are about “morality,” because that’s what your church teaches you, and you want the government to have laws to enforce your point of view, then I’d oppose that. I don’t think that the government has any business at all enforcing anyone’s own rules of personal morality. The government shouldn’t be allowed to compel people to attend church on Sunday. The government shouldn’t be allowed to compel school children to pray. And so on.
Simply because your particular version of personal morality differs from mine doesn’t make you more moral than I; it just means that our personal moral codes are different. I think that most wars and capital punishment are immoral. I think it’s immoral to tolerate a situation where millions of children lack health insurance. Prove that you are right and I am wrong. You can’t and neither can I prove the converse.
Would you like to place a wager on how many cases of incest involve Republicans versus involving Democrats? Incest isn’t at all a political thing, contrary to your insinuations. Are the people who most tolerate the idea of polygamy conservatives or liberals? Why not ask the likely next GOP Presidential nominee?
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
.@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
On my way out to Tintin so don’t have enough time for a full response now. As for
I thought I made it more than clear the many in the video who found it so “entertaining.”
As for extra embryos, ask why Germany or any of the other European countires don’t allow them?
More later perhaps, Tintin awaits.
@Richard Wheeler: Ahem, *Seger*
Patricia As a Marine Corps Officer I fought for our freedoms in V.N. i did not fight for nor can I abide those who would be our” moral police” Freedom of speech,religion and the press.Civil rights and human rights Protection of the innocents.These are universal and worth fighting for.
Couger moms,like vicious rap music,tasteless,stupid condoned by few but not worth such overwhelming concern.Far left and far right both have excess of bad actors.People have a right to be stupid.There it is.
Anticsrocks Thanks Bob Seger and The Silver Bullet Band STILL ROCKIN
Merry Christmas and Semper Fi What’s tintin?
@Richard Wheeler: On this, you and I concur. Seger definitely rocks. During my years on the road, I worked for a lot of the classic rock bands in tour management capacity – James “JY” Young of STYX, Foghat, Kansas, Head East, Derek St. Holmes of Ted Nugent’s band, Loverboy, Gary Richrath of REO fame, of course my own band and a whole host of regional/local bands. Living on the road, out of a suitcase and having to unwrap all the food you eat – well that is the lifestyle of a younger man than I am now. Missed out on too many of my kids’ lives during that time in my life, that is why, I think, I am a better Dad to my youngest, who will be three on January 4th.
.
.
A nticsrocks Sounds like great fun mixed with lonliness.”Turn The Page” comes to mind. Best Richard
anticsrocks
yes, that’s why you’re so smart, you learned on the road, that’s the best way,
I bet she can’t wait for her BIRTHDAY to come, she is so lucky, she get CHRISTMAS IFTS,
and NEW YEAR GIFTS, and BIRTHDAY GIFT, all concentrated in 10 days, wow I bet you guys made it happen willingly
a smart calculation,
and you took advantages of sales for presents hey
@ilovebeeswarzone: LOL, thanks beezy.
@Richard Wheeler:
Richard thanks for your service to our country.
I’m afraid I have to differ with you when you say you didn’t fight for our “moral police” but at the same time, tell me that you fought for other “freedoms.” Freedom properly understood is not what we are “allowed, or is legal” to do, but being able to do what is rightly ordered.
Are you aware of the vast number of divorces and the break up of families as a result of p@#$%grpahy ? Do you understand how important familes are to society, and or how much children suffer as a result of divorce? It’s that kind of “no big deal” attitude Richard that has gotten us to our crisis. So much for your claimed “protection of the innocents.”
I agree that people have a right to be stupid, but only when they are the only ones who suffer the consequences, not our children or society. Again, a major reason why social issues DO matter.
p.s. Tintin is an animated kids’ movie
Hi Patricia (#14o).
I’m trying to figure out exactly what you are saying. In his service as a Marine, here is the oath that Richard took:
He didn’t swear to defend your idea of morality; nor should he. Nor should you have the right to impose your private morality on the rest of society. You can legislate public behavior; you can’t legislate private morality. The Supreme Court has grappled with this issue for decades — the degree to which the government may limit speech, print media, cinema, Internet — in all instances deciding the issue in question on Constitutional grounds, not on moral grounds.
“Being able to do what is rightly ordered?” Who decides what is “rightly ordered?”
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
Patricia I nderstand your concern with p—ograpy. To define it is another question.I’ve heard “i know it when i see it” To reduce it is a noble goal.
Did you know Evangelical Christians have the highest divorce rate of any religious denomination? My quess is their p–n viewing is consistant with that ranking.
In the “good old days” women couldn’t vote and blacks were segregated from puplic schools and restaurants.In my mind THAT was po——phic.
Do we return to the days of the Carrie Nations’ defining our morality. I hope not.
Be good to your children and giving to others.
I’m a Methodist.John Wesley said “Earn as much as you can,save as much as you can,give as much as you can” Not bad
No religion or political party can define or enforce morality or family values.although we currently have a First Family that sets a pretty good example.
btw My local paper had positive reviews on Tintin and Bob Seger on the same page today.Coincidence?
Larry Just saw your #141 Thanks As we cay in The Corps “There it is”
Patricia I too would like to know who decides “what is rightly ordered”
Richard, Both sides do it. Some on the left (along with the right,) will push thru legislation and other means it’s force their own morality viewpoints on everyone else:
(1) Silencing 1st amendment protected religious free speech in public places.
(2) In supporting heavy-handed bureaucracies that use their political POV in enforcement and creating rules (aka legislation,) without going through a legislative process.
(3) The issue of Gay marriage in which it supports pits one social-political moral viewpoint against opposition moral viewpoints.
(4) Supporting abortion for all females any time they want it, even when abortion clinics refuse to report statutory rape to law enforcement (as required by law), and when some abortion doctors ignore the third trimester portion of the SCOTUS Roe V Wade decisions; in order to support the grisly practice of partial birth abortions, and in running roughshod over the rights of guardians of underage children.
(5) Waging a tragic siege war on a whole group of religious people (Waco) when they could have easily and peacefully arrested the “wanted” individuals when they ventured out for supplies without placing others at risk (as was requested by the local Sherriff), and in the media justifying the siege war by declaring those inside the compound to be “cult members,” totally ignoring their 1st Amendment constitutional rights to the free practice of the religion of their choice.
(6) The foisting of “politically correctness” programs on the public, and the use of political offices, courts, rules, regulations and legislation, to silence opposition.
Both political parties and agenda-driven minority groups within them force their particular moral values on other. I took an oath to protect the support the Constitution (and of course in doing so the and rights of all my fellow U.S. citizens,) regardless of race, color, political viewpoint, religion affiliation (or lack thereof).
“Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.” ~ Voltare and in a 6 February 1770 letter to M. le Riche: “Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.”
Hi Ditto,
Can you give me a concrete example of what you mean by the following?
(1) Silencing 1st amendment protected religious free speech in public places.
– Larry W/HB
Ditto
hi,
didn’t I told you before that you would be a good PRESIDENT, why didn’t you listen?
but it’s not too late, you would have FA BEHIND YOU, and we would take care of the negatives mouths
trying to touch you,
MERRY CHRISTMAS
I was serious too.
Patricia would be super with you. her values are super,showing a true AMERICAN SHE IS
as I’m getting close to MIDNIGHT , And I read many comments from the regulars and other,
like the song I like; I tell to myself, what a wonderful FA, yes I tell to myself,
what a wonderful FA, oh yey,
openid.aol.com/runnswim
I’m sure the CONSTITUTION WAS NOT WRITTEN TO ENCOURAGE wrong doing, and setting bad examples for children to learn and prohibiting the PRAYERS, the word of JESUS AND GOD, THE FLAG IN SCHOOLS,
ECETERA INCLUDING ANY DECADENT BEHAVIOR IN PUBLIC SPACES, ECETERA, all those is not freedom, it is corruption
deviant actions and bad exemple,
HAPPY HANUKA
On morality, values and beliefs. Some one had better begin to decide just what is right and or wrong in this Brave New America. And soon too! But that is now the problem is it not? The starting point many if not most of our problems today. Yet the most ignored too. And why? Because we all have been told over and over that “whats right for you, is wrong for me” by the liberals until we have what we have now. Every society that lasts for any lenght of time has to have defineable values. Laws are a result of values that a large group of people hold. And or just the opposite. If you have a society that only pays lip service to the values of “protection of our children” first and foremost like we do, you see perverts being freed over and over to commit the same crime again and again. The same with beastuality. Values are like a measuring stick. Children learn at an early age what is acceptable in their society and what is not acceptable. Yet now the morality police, tell us that we cannot impose values on anyone. How do you make something that was considered abnormal for thousands of years in many societies to be right? You begin with the foot in the door technique, like the Gay lobby did. If they had started out back in the 70’s demanding that they all be accepted with full rights, and marriage too they would never had made the kind of progress that they did. You take the original value that you dislike and begin to dismantle it piece by piece. just the opposite of how you build values. Now the liberals want individuals who like having sex with kids and animals to be accepted. They have made progress on these issues as well since they have started their campaign years ago. What it comes down to is that many of us had our values sold out from under us by the liberals and the republicans who feared the liberals. You cannot even argue with most liberals on this subject for they refuse to believe that a society cannot continue to exist without values which provide beliefs, traditions, and laws. i used sexual issues but the same thing holds true for religious values as well. Or work values,and or how young people feel about working, and what their government owes them, or does not owe them. I remember the old ww11 soldiers ,oaning how they had not fought to watch what this country was becomming. So what is the major value that guides us now, the value to have as much freedom to do as I please, regardless of the hurt and pain it causes my fellow citizens, and country.
Gary G. Swenchonis
hi,
yes that’s what is better said than I EVER CAN, I sure like that expose of the right values,to
show in public, we know the CHILDREN ARE the most inquisitive of all ages,
and we should be honorable enough to not disturb their mind by pretending a bad conduct is okay,the deviant can do what they want at their home, but it seems like they are driven to do it publicly,
and more and more, because it seems like they want the people to get acquainted to their decadence,
like demons on the rise to degenerate AMERICA, it is one of their weapon just like the empowering of the AMERICAN ENTERPRISE TO PREVENT CREATIVITY TO SUCCEED, IN A NEW BUSYNESS,
THE liberals seems to have the hell word easy in their vocabulary, they act devilishly too,
I wander and find the radical change of AMERICA these years, could be all the multiple horns of the devil,
we could be facing it and still find impossible to be real, but some other bright minds are warning us same way, same talk.
bye
Ms. Bees thank you for your always enjoyable reads and kind words 🙂
Larry and Richard (141,142), when did I ever suggest that morality be legislated? Unlike the left who impose their immorality which consequently influences the culture (as well pointed out by the recent other writers’ posts), site me just one example of anyone in America being forced to practice any religion or adhere to any moral conduct against their will, save for laws that have been in place for years for the good of society.
Of course no one can legislate morality anymore than anyone can legislate love or kindness. This may come as a shock to you but I’m not even suggesting that anyone TRY to legislate it. What I AM trying to do is to get you to see the value and necessity of it before it is too late. In the meantime we continue to eat each other alive and move closer to the cliff in our “each man out for himself driven culture”, the exact reason as I’ve told you before, no Godless democratic society has ever survived more than 100 years.
I’m not even asking that anyone believe in God, only stating reality as I know it. I can’t make anyone believe anymore than I or anyone else can legistlate morality. I’m only suggesting that for those who don’t believe, that you might want to consider the consequences of a moral relative culture and at least agree to a set of Judeo Christain basic values for the good of society.
Again, not forcing anything on anyone, but like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo/Christain Values, also with the wisdom of knowing that we are endowed by our creator. That said, for people of Judeo/Christain faith, there is only one “order”, and that would be God’s rightly order, immutable teachings in tact for thousands of years.
Again, anyone is free to disagree, and if that is all they do, no danger. The problem now is that those who disagree disrespect our right to choose to live out faith fully in the public square/lives, subsequently, imposing values and teachings incompatible with Judeo/Christain Values. (FYI, there is NO separation of church and state in the constitution, and I’m not talking about estabishing a national religion, only the freedom to live the one each of us chooses to live).
Richard you make that point even more by trying to do semantic gymnastics around Por——phy. For heavens sakes, it isn’t “what is is”, or what you think it is. That’s the great tactic of the left, just change the words, and or rewrite history, all part of the journey down the slippery slope, little by little as Gary or Ditto explained.
Here’s the bottom line. Either God is real or not. If real, the ONLY moral standard is the one of our creator. If God is not real, it’s all meaningless anyway, and no moral standard is necessary, as anything can be rationalized and all of life is for the most part, meaningless. To the non-believer, God is some made up crutch or feel good fantasy in “our” world. To the believer, the world is IN GOD (big difference).
Plain and simple, that’s our problem. There is no grey, and there is no real freedom outside of the God made perfect order. If anyone doubts that, try going 3 days without whatever it is you don’t think you are addicted to, only to find out that you are not “free” but enslaved by it.
The good news, as the clock nears Christmas Eve, is that we DO have a savior. The bad news is, just like real conservatives, not much interest. This once great nation, blessed by God, endowed by our Creator, once the moral lighthouse to the world, is now a moral cesspool.
I’m only pointing out the obvious consequences of free will and trying to make sense to anyone who fails to understand why we are eating each other alive: that’s what people in Godles societies do.
Patricia
one post give us the answer that you are right on the beam,
that is the POST ON WHY DO FELLON….. it has since it begun, over 250 some comments, and I was so shock to read in the last some comments that 30 millions TRUE AMERICAN HAVE THE BRAND on their profile making them practicly unable to get employed, it tell me that the jobs are being taken by immigrants or even illegals, how come this GREAT NATION HAS so many branded young AMERICANS, some are desperatly looking but even thinking of end it all. I ‘m not sure but I don’t think the 10 COMMANDS
FROM GOD are being study in school, that is what it’s telling me,
bye
MERRY CHRISTMAS
@Patricia: Great points Patricia. But my concern and others that I know fear that it may be too late to stop what our leaders set in motion decades ago. That this revolution will have to burn itself out so to speak. And in doing so many, many people will be hurt in many differnt ways, and our nation as a whole will be changed one way or another. People are waking up to the fact that we have some serious problems as a society that are not being addressed. Most if not all of these problems were started by the liberals so they could attain their goals. Many people are now looking around at the civil unrest, at weaknesses of our courts, our laws, our do nothing politicians, at the confusion of our children and young people many with no direction at all, at other countries having the same problems, and the other countries trying to impose just the opposite of socialism which are basically dictattorships especially in the ME, while we are told over and over by both parties, “Not to worry! We will fix it next month!” Which they have been saying for years now as they continue to drive us to the edge. How can they fix fiscal responsibility when many people now believe that the State owes them everything? They our leaders and others ignored social issues for decades telling us that they were not important, but you cannot have fisical repsonibility without hold that idea not just as a value but a firm belief as well. They our leaders tell us that they want fiscal responsibilty, but do their behaviors match their words? No. I see our only hope as the Tea Party and any other groups that are born as a result of it with the same agendas, and with more attention to social issues. But the liberals have made progress and are not going to stop till they have a socialist state. Not until the rest of Americans wake up and join the cause to stop them. Which as things get worse, and they will I think that more and more Americans will began to fight back. And on religion, the liberals will stop till they have crushed it completely. They want religious people to be treated like smokers, hated and despised and ridiculed. They are very close to that objective now. Religion teaches everything a liberal hates. Religion tells it people to honor the family and their parents, husband and wife, to be conservative with their money, and their sexual desires, to pay the state its taxes but not to worship the state, etc…. It teaches healthy values. Just the opposite of liberal values. But manily religion is a threat to the state. I am not religious but I always believed and still do that religion was one of the major sub groups that held our society together with its values, norms, traditions and beliefs. We used all of those in raising our own children. Merry Christmas!
@ilovebeeswarzone: Thanks BEE! You hit on many good points BEE. I do believe that what the liberal Master are doing is evil. And I would reckon that many of their followers act on evil impluses as well. But again many of the liberal minions are totally ignorant of what they are doing and why they are doing it. But in my book they are just as wrong as the ones who know what they are doing. We used to have a Law here in American and other nations as well that stated that “ignorance of the law was no excuse” for breaking a law. That person was held accountable for the wrongs that he/she had committed as a result. Not like now where people can use “not knowing about a law’ as an excuse to escape consequences. Just one more norm/law that the liberals did away with. But in regards to evil, liberals do not believe that it exists. That belief fits with their beliefs that people cannot do wrong, but be only be misguided, and or not educated. And that their is no God of course. They the liberals refuse to believe that we all have freedom of choice in our decisions, that God gave that right to us. Not believing in evil is saying there is no right or left, no up and or down, if you have good then you have evil. there have always been, and always will be two opposing forces in everthing, light and dark, young and old, the list is endless. Look at nature, its full of opposites. As to if that evil is the devil, I am not quite sure of that as of yet. But I do know that we as humans have an evil side of us, and a good side. And its my choice as to which side I will live for. And that I fight that fight on a daily basis with many choices both big and small. Our great nation was built on many of the religious and spiritual values, of the bible many of those values are now gone unfortunately. But we still have some left, and those are worth fighting for. If we can get some leaders with the backbone to fight with us. And I doubt that very seriously.
@ilovebeeswarzone: Bee! I forgot!! Happy Christmas and a Happy New Year!! May you live long with good health and prosper!
Gary G. Swenchonis
you know about we all have both good and evil in us, I think you’re right,
sometimes I have develish toughts coming, and I have to delete them,
so they stay out in the darkness never to come back.
until the next one
bye