Neda Bolourchi is an Iranian-born Muslim whose family fled to the US following the overthrow of the Shah is 1979. She feels this mosque planned for Ground Zero should be built elsewhere.
I was born in pre-revolutionary Iran. My family led a largely secular existence — I did not attend a religious school, I never wore a headscarf — but for us, as for anyone there, Islam was part of our heritage, our culture, our entire lives. Though I have nothing but contempt for the fanaticism that propelled the terrorists to carry out their murderous attacks on Sept. 11, I still have great respect for the faith. Yet, I worry that the construction of the Cordoba House Islamic cultural center near the World Trade Center site would not promote tolerance or understanding; I fear it would become a symbol of victory for militant Muslims around the world.
She notes that under the Shah Iran was much more secular and tolerant, in contrast to the Iran of today. There is a lesson there for those (i.e. progressives) who like nothing more than to see the Royals of Saudi be overthrown. The Saudi Royals are the cork on the bottle known as Wahabbism. Not for one second am I suggesting that I think the Saudis have our best interests at heart but they are definitely the lesser of evils.
Bolourchi makes clear that she does not think the new mosque would improve understanding:
But a mosque near Ground Zero will not move this conversation forward. There were many mosques in the United States before Sept. 11; their mere existence did not bring cross-cultural understanding. The proposed center in New York may be heralded as a peace offering — may genuinely seek to focus on “promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture,” as its Web site declares — but I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not.
When Muslims conquered Spain the Cordoba cathedral was purchased and initally used by all religions. That sounds a lot like what Feisal Rauf tells us today of his intentions. Not long afterwards all Spaniards were ordered to convert to Islam. Creeping Sharia is nothing new. There are many of us who believe as does Bolourchi- that this new mosque will add nothing to understanding but rather serve as a symbol of triumph of Islam over America. It add nothing but resentment.
I do not doubt that Feisal Rauf has intentions other than the ones he claims. It is indisputable that Rauf has a Constitutional right to build the mosque. But Rauf claims to be a bridge builder. That conflicts with his plans. You really can’t build a bridge to people when you are using a stick to poke and open sore wounds. Neda Bolourchi gets it.
I know Ground Zero is not mine alone; I must share this sanctuary with tourists, politicians, anyone who chooses to come, whatever their motivations or intentions. But a mosque nearby — even a proposed one — is already transforming the site from a sacred ground for reflection, so desperately needed by the families who lost loved ones, to a battleground for religious and political ideologies. So many people from different nationalities and religions were killed that day. This site should be a neutral place for all to come in peace and remember. I believe my mother would have thought so as well.
If Rauf was the sensitive guy he claims to be, he’d drop these plans. He’d sense that this is causing grief among Americans and he would choose to build his mosque elsewhere. But he’s not dropping his plans. He intends to force them upon us, as I think he would force Islam upon this country. Rauf’s mosque is being built as a symbol of the victory of Islam.
See author page
Dr. John,
It is a very moving, well-written letter. She lives right here in Los Angeles, and I wrote her and told her as much (her mother was killed aboard Flight 175, the 2nd plane to hit the WTC, and the same one that carried my store manager, his partner, and their 3 yr old adopted son).
I really do respect her position, and am sympathetic to it. Nothing at all hateful in her rhetoric.
But she ends the piece with:
And you also quoted:
That would be you and I.
It’s saddening how both sides are trying to use the “chickenhawk” argument (not always irrelevant nor to be ignored) to justify the righteousness of their position. 9/11 family members aren’t only on the side of those who oppose, as you well know:
Here’s the 74 yr old mother of firefighter Timothy Welty:
You wrote:
How do you know he is pushing forward (and he might have a change of heart sometime between now and then with so much opposition- asking for more trouble than this may be worth) out of insensitivity? Especially in light of those who are encouraging him that this center he envisions is the right thing to do? He and his wife believe:
(Or so they claim, as the taqiyyaphiles will warn you about).
So it may be good intentions that spurs them on. Not ill-will; nor insensitivity to the feelings of the victims. Especially considering that Rauf himself, who’s been leading Muslim prayer services and interfaith dialogue just 10 blocks away for 27 years, lost members of his own congregation on 9/11.
@Wordsmith:
I understand your position, and even have a hard time with my disagreement. I do feel that we should remain a nation ruled by our founding documents, and that those wonderful documents have made us the greatest and most successful nation in this world’s history. That being said, this mosque is an act of provecation, and nothing more. For years before the destruction of the WTC, Islamists had been making the claim that they would replace what they viewed as the symbol of our wealth and success with the flag of Sharia. I refuse that after the destruction of the WTC, that putting a mosque there is just a coincidence. This is no different than the memorial at Shanksville being made as a monument to Islam. We are the most tolerant nation on Earth, and as such, the Muslim community has mosques in most every city in the United States. Putting one in this spot is a slap in the face to every American, and an admission of defeat by us to those people who mean us harm. Taquiyah is the Muslim term for acceptable dishonesty being fed to non Muslims. Not a single other religion on Earth has a term for acceptable dishonesty. When listening to any Muslim spokesperson, or leader, you should keep that fact in mind.
There has been much analogy made to Cordoba and this Community Center/Mosque. Keep in mind that at that time in history, Islam had invaded and occupied Spain–and under the circumstance could exert their will upon the the Spanish Christians. That is a different situation than exists in this country. I have more faith in the American people that to expect that the would stand by idly while Sharia Law became the norm, as some extremists–like Newt Gingrich–would have you believe.
Here is the second amendment (Bill of Rights) in its entirety:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
see nothing there that says anything about a building, mosque, church, chapel, etc. –
People like to make simple things way more complicated than they need to be – they don’t have a right to build a mosque whereever they want anymore than a church can be built anywhere – so I figure the right to protest their building is legal and warranted
Also, ISLAM SUCKS is not only their ‘religion’, it is a way of life – governing everything – read about it – information is always helpful…………………
This ‘religion’ is slowly infiltrating this country and nobody seems to care – the sheeple are more concerned with protecting the ‘rights’ of CAIR & ISLAM SUCKS than the normal American citizens who live under a republic (hopefully still) rather than a theocracy…………
@Word
How far do you push someone with something you think is right if they disagree? Do you shove your viewpoint down someone’s throat?
Is that ‘bridgebuilding”?
Or is persisting with your own sense of self-righteousness insensitive?
@tadcf:
My personal stance on this has nothing to do with analogies to Cordoba. The claim of one day flying the flag of Sharia over the WTC site dates back to the ancient date of 1992 as far as I know. The infiltration scheme of the Muslim Brotherhood has nothing to do with armed invasion. Pretending that they are not saying and doing what they are very clearly saying and doing will not make them go away. The, “moderate muslim,” moniker is a farce. Yes, I know that not all muslims are islamic terrorists, but I also know that a much higher percentage than the number bandied about currently are. (Investor’s Business Daily conducted a poll which found that 52% of muslims support terror as an acceptable means of spreading islam. The percentage I keep reading and hearing from most sources is 10%.) These people we are at war with are very shrewd, and cunning. They realize that an open assault on America will not be successful. A political assault on America is a different story. New York, and Manhatten are big places. They can build a mosque anywhere. Actually, I enjoy the architecture. It just shouldn’t be there. By the way, there are a lot of other Muslims saying the same thing. This is a provacative act.
Newt Gingrich is another issue. He does not speak for me. Newt is an excellent politician. His greatest strength is sticking his finger into the air to test the direction of the political winds. He is one of the best in my memory of making it look like he is in front of the direction of the electorate. While he is an eloquent speaker, he is not a great leader. He was not in front of this mosque issue, but merely took the message to T.V. more efficiently than everyone else. There is a term for that, stealing the thunder.
There was a Muslim woman from Canada on O’Rielly yesterday. She spoke out against building the mosque at ground zero. I wish I had a link. Weather you support it or are against it this lady was eloquent in expressing her understanding of the issue. Needless to say I believe she assumed a great risk as a Muslim woman in expressing her opinions.
@Buffalobob:
That right there speaks volumes to this issue. That this woman was willing to take this stand at the risk of personal injury. This is far more than a simple mosque innocently located in America.
@Buffalobob:
Here is the link: Muslim Raheel Raza speaks out against Ground Zero Mosque on O’Reilly
The way I see it, it’s a fairly simple issue. When we were going into Afghanistan in 2001, we were set to name the mission “Operation Infinite Justice”. Muslims complained, saying “infinite justice” could only come from Allah, so the mission name was offensive to Muslims. The Bush Administration, to appease the Muslim complaints, changed the name to “Operation Enduring Freedom”.
Now we have the opposite occurrence happening. Muslims want to build a mosque in the neighborhood of Ground Zero. Most Americans are completely offended by this action. But, instead of the Muslims reciprocating our good faith gesture to not offend them, they are doing no such thing to not offend us.
Thus, it is blatantly obvious that this has *nothing* at all to do with “understanding” between Muslims and Americans. Just as Muslims took the name of our mission in Afghanistan to be a symbolic insult to them, so too is this Mosque in the neighborhood of Ground Zero a symbolic insult to all Americans.
People talk about winning “hearts and minds” in Afghanistan and Iraq. All fine and good. But where are the efforts to win “hearts and minds” of Americans by Muslims? Our American military has bent over backwards to appease the sensibilities and culture of Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq. These Muslims pushing to build the mosque at Ground Zero are doing exactly the opposite.
@ Michale
Thanks for the link. O”Reilly for once was speechless. I was waiting for him to interrupt but her words and emotions carried the day. This lady nailed it.
@susiepuma:
Um……..Susie……
That’s the First Amendment.
The second reads.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Perhaps, the motivation in the roots of this potential Mosque, isn’t based in religious promotions or ideologies, but is planted in the very old human motivation we call greed – in this case money.
David Frum had a different perspective based on some facts he dug up, . . . Is The ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ A Publicity Stunt?
As usual, nothing is as it seems, but perceptions are omnipotent, . . . here and there.
Well, Drjohn, this statement from you, IMHO, is wonderful. It is an “opposition” – sans made up scandals and allusions (except that “do not doubt” part… but that’s okay) – that I think all of us can agree upon sans sniping. We don’t like it, think it’s a dumber than dirt idea and wish he had never embarked upon this course.
And you also recognize this does fall within the scope of our laws.
Frankly, this kind of discourse is much better as “opposition” than what has transpired prior to this, and I applaud you for this post. Had the opposition organized protests based on the “this is not the way to win hearts and minds” argument, and sans all the Shariah/terrorist supporter hype and accusations, the quest to influence Cordoba Initiative plans could be further along. So in the long run, I could not agree more… that his intents, even if proven good (despite your doubts), are not accomplishing what he desires at this stage.
In the future, and even if he “proves” the naysayers wrong by having a complex that accomplishes all he says, doesn’t mean he undoes the damage he may have unwittingly caused now.
Kudos, guy.
I’m now more pissed-off that the State Department is paying for this guy to fly around the planet doing whatever it is he’s doing, than I am about his “community” center.
WTF?
Allahpundit:
Sound familiar?
Flyovercountry:
This sounds like the tales of Communist conspiracy of the 1950’s and 1960’s. I bet if you checked it out, you’d find that a majority percentage of Christians also believe in the spread of Christianity. Gingrich has shown himself to be a hypocrite–is that what qualifies him as a ‘good’ politician?
Flyovercountry:
It’s about as big a deal as conservatives want to make it. I doubt very much that a Muslim woman was taking he life in her hands by speaking out against the Community Center/Mosque–freedom of speech is probably one of the reasons she lives here. Islam is not a monolithic power in this country, that can reach out and kill someone.
@tadcf:
Since you seem to lack either the historical perspective, or the glimmerings of an adult memory let me fill you in on something you may have missed. Those communist conspiracies of the 50’s and 60’s, a lot of them turned out to be true. I’m not talking about the floridated water conspiracies mind you, but some of the others. There really was a cold war going on, and they were actively trying to infiltrate, and coincidentally destroy our society. That was one of the little tidbits of information which former citizens of the Soviet Union told us after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Just because you want to live in a kumbayah hippie world, does not mean that reality has followed you there.
The second part of your statement, that Christians wish to spread Christianity is moral equivalence of the most evil. Spreading Christianity is not the same as flying airplanes into buildings in order to seek converts, or force your view of God onto a foreign society. Jehova’s Witnesses may be annoying when they knock on my door, but that is not the same as blowing up pizza parlors.
Two things about the third part of your statement. Liberals calling anyone a hypochrite is laughable. The instances of liberal hypocracy are litteraly too numerous to mention. Gingrich may have compromised on his values in order to pass legislation, which is something I personally did not like, but as far as his service to the constituents of his congressional district, I don’t see hypocracy. If you are talking about his personal life, you did not live in his household, and are not qualified to comment on that. I was talking about his ability as a tactical politician as being good, nothing more.
Honor killings are, unfortunately, a common occurence. Muslims, the world over have made a habbit of violent rampages at the silliest of perceived slights. Examples of such include a kindergarten teacher at a mission school who had to be placed in 24/7 police protection because she named the class hamster Mohamed, Salmon Rushdie, who wrote a fiction novel which the Muslims took as an insult, a Danish cartoonist who had the temerity to actually draw a cartoon depicting Mohamed not being a man of peace. I suppose you are going to tell me that these 3 folks suffer from Islamiphobia. That if only we can get them the proper psychiatric care, those hordes of Muslims around the globe threatening to kill them will magically go away.
I saw some more comments from Rauf recently. For those saying he is taking the view that liberals have about America and Islam, I say you have it exactly backwards. Liberals take the views someone like Rauf has to justify their support of radical Islamic hatred towards America.
When I keep seeing that he constantly blames America for terrorism, that is not a Muslim moderate. Granted he isn’t as extreme as a jihadist, but he blames the U.S. instead of the jihadists.
He makes the statement about condemning Islamic terrorists, but immediately disproves that by refusing to condemn the Muslim brotherhood or Hamas. His actions put the lie to his words.
@Hard Right:
Most of us have learned the lessons about allowing supposedly “moderate” Imams to preach from mosques in America through the examples of “the blind sheikh” and the Fort Hood mass murderer who took his teachings from an Imam here in America as well.
There do not need to be ties to terrorists for there to be a reason to prevent these people from setting up shop in America. The statements from Rauf put him in the same category as the Fort Hood murderer’s imam.
Would we allow the Fort Hood murderer imam to open a mosque near Ground Zero. I would hope not. Yet, here we are allowing someone with the same views to open one. Brilliant.
More comments by Rauf, many of which cannot be spun away by claims of context etc.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2462
HR,
I’ve seen this link a couple of weekends back when I was researching for posts to do. Separate the commentary there from what Rauf actually says and my opinion of his “gotcha-radical” statements remains unmoved.
Word…
What will it take to convince you that a significant number of the muslims among us are not simply looking for a place to live in peace?
@suek:
Allowing, hypothetically, that your premise is true, please answer the following:
1) How many constitutes a “significant number” in your mind?
2) How do you propose to determine which ones fall into the specific categories of peaceful and non-peaceful? Is such determination achieved through fingerprinting, DNA analysis, blood typing? Or would it be achieved through a less objective mushy squishy set of testing standards that lie mainly in the eye of the beholder?
3) What do you propose that we do with this “significant number” that you claim exists within the US once they have been separated from the herd? Should we round them up and put them in camps ala FDR’s Japanese solution? Should we shoot them all before they have a chance to harm us? Should we deport them? If so, to where?
4) Are you a believer in the concept of “innocent until proven guilty” or do you subscribe to the “guilty by association” mindset?
5) When the attempted bombing of Times Square occurred there was a movement afoot to deny the suspect of his Miranda Rights? Would you have agreed or disagreed with such a denial of Constitutional protections?
Flyovercountry #18:
Which ones turned out to be true? Possibly the number of false air raid drills we had in school when I was a child? Or the myriad of civil defense spotters peering up at the sky through binoculars, to catch a glimpse of a Soviet air attack—which never happened. Or maybe the tens of thousands—if not hundreds of thousands–of careers that were ruined, because of Joe McCarthy’s supposed communist black-listing. Or maybe the millions of people killed in an anti-communist domino war, and thousands killed and tortured by the CIA in covert-ops against communism in Latin America.
Of course their was Russian and American espionage and counter-espionage. Ever heard of the U2 spy plane that was captured by the Soviets?
And 9/11 was not an attempt to spread Islam. Evangelism is as much a part of Christianity, pehaps more, as it is in Islam.
For someone to be a good politician requires an ethical basis on their part. If someone is a hypocrite, then the are, ipso facto, a lousy politician. Now that’s not a common requirement; some people may think that a criminal makes a good politician—maybe you’re of this ilk.
Newt Gingrich was a hypocrite in that he chided Bill Clinton for his adulterous activities, while he was secretly having an adulterous affair of his own. Now, as far as I’m concerned that kind of hypocrisy does not make a good politician. Plus, he was removed from his position on ethics charges. Is that your idea of a good politician?
Honor killings are an occurrence with some Muslim sects, but I don’t think they’re common in the Muslim community generally. And no, I don’t think the stories you cite are examples of being Islamo-phobic, but I think you are.
Word, the comments I posted a link to were not the ones I saw video of Rauf making. There was no question about what he meant. He blamed America for 9/11 and accused us of causing terrorist acts by Muslims.
Re: student aid
I wish you people would start documenting things you quote with an internet link. Since some of us on this site don’t believe everything that’s said here (like sheeple), we would like to examine the evidence ourselves.
@tadcf:
Tell ya what tadcf, why don’t you lead by example on that one starting with comment #25.
Once you document every single thing you’ve said in that comment, then go back and document everything else you’ve posted on this site.
After that, come back here to this thread and ask for source citations from the rest of us.
Otherwise, you look like a fool.
@tadcf
Not only what AC said, but if you feel that you cannot believe everything that is written here, then do the research yourself, and prove that person or those persons wrong. You obviously have access to the internets. If it bothers you that much, prove the people wrong, using your own links.
Otherwise, as AC said and I will modify, you look like a lazy fool.
@tadcf:
The problem with your rambling, is where to begin. I don’t have a long time for lunch today, so I may not get to the whole thing.
Newt was removed for ethics charges, which not only was he later exhonerated for, but as it turns out, they were admittedly baseless by the people who leveled them. This is the second time you have proven yourself to be a complete hypochrite. I guess the liberal mantra is innocent until proven guilty unless you are a conservative, then only the seriousness of the charge be considered, not whether or not it is true. As for the impeachment hearings, the charge Newt leveled against President Clinton was for perjury, and not adultery. I did not agree with the conclusion of Starr’s investigation, but I do sympathize with an investigator’s frustration at looking at a lifetime of felonious behavior, and not being able to make any of it stick. I will state for the record though, I do not ever agree with a process crime being the only charge brought to bear on anybody.
How many members of the Obama Administration would be in jail now were it not for their political connections. Obama’s own real estate dealings landed his political allie into incarceration, (Tony Rezko.) Once again, hypocracy thy name is Democrat.
This is one of the most over the top leftist piles of bologna ever put forth. Millions?! The real brutality and torture came from the tinpot thuggish dictators and wannabe dictators you adore so much. It was the communists in Latin America who made a habbit of killing inncoents in order to spread fear and to keep the masses in line. I am sure you are sitting somewhere sporting a Che Guevara t-shirt depicting him as some sort of rock star. Just so we understand each other, you feel that pro democracy lives are completely worthless, while all murderous thugs should be protected and revered.
Again, this is blind moral equivalence of the most dangerous kind. An evangelical christian knocking on my door is not likely to end in anyone’s death. It is annoying, and I may get really angry with them, but my odds of survival are pretty darned good. Muslims blowing themselves and anybody who happens to be near is not the same thing. Them screaming Allahu Akhbar while they do it is their version of spreading Islam. The number of times this has occured since the start of Islam in the 700’s is litterally to much to mention. I am sure you can find incidents of christian extremeism, but for every one of those, we would be able to find hundreds of examples of Muslim extremism. With this statement, you have again proven yourself to be a hypochrite.
The best thing that can be said about this argument is that it is specious. Just because an air raid did not happen does not mean that the possibility did not exist. The soviets really did have spies in America, and they really did try to park nuclear missiles just off of our coast in Cuba. They were engaging us in battles, as the aggressors in several proxie wars all over the globe. They had launched full scale invasions of several countries. I guess in your leftist world view, it is O.K. to invade a sovereign country if you spread socialism. This world view is of course hypochritical in the worst way.
Again, one of the things discovered in the years which followed the fall of the Berlin Wall, when we got a good look at the KGB files, was that McCarthy was for the most part right about our government being over run with Soviet spies. This didn’t come from some dark conservative planning pit, but from the old Soviet files of the people who were waging a very real cold war against us.
Okay… I really have to ask this question. When was the last time anyone had a Muslim knock on their door to “testify”, and stood there with machete in hand if you didn’t convert? In fact, has anyone ever even had a Muslim come to your door to convert you? Ever??? In fact, let’s get even more loose with the criteria. Have any of you ever met a Muslim, for any reason, who tried to convert you?
@MataHarley:
Mata, I may be a little dense, but I am not certain of who you are disagreeing with here. My point was not to claim that the Islamofacists are trying to convert me specifically. I was merely trying to point out the acts of terrorism being performed by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 to 41 can not in any way be equated to Christian evangelicals trying to spread the word of the Christian gospel. My further point was that the acts of Muslim terror, which is a regular occurence unfortunately, is considered an acceptable means of spreading Islam by roughly 52% of the Muslim faith, most notably their clergy.
I believe the whole world would be much happier if the Islamists tried to spread their word in the more conventional means practiced by most religions today. Having a Muslim appear at my door to testify, (without machete,) would actually make me happy the first 25 to 30 times if it meant an end to their other methods of persuasion. I can guarantee you that I would be much nicer to them than the Jehova’s Witnesses and Mormons I see now.
A partial list:
1968
June 5 – U.S. presidential candidate Robert Kennedy murdered by Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan, in Los Angeles, which causes further terrorist attacks, as Arab terrorist groups demanded his release.
1969
Feb. 18 – Boeing 707 attacked at Zurich, Switzerland, killing the pilot and 3 passengers.
Aug. 29 – TWA 707 hijacked from Rome to Damascus, released with only wounded.
Nov. 27- EL AL office in Athens, Greece attacked. Innocent bystanders killed.
1970
Feb. 21 – Swiss airliner blown up over Switzerland, killing all 47 people on board.
Feb. 23 – PLO terrorists open fire on a busload of Christian pilgrims killing 1 and wounding 2 Americans.
April 21- Bomb explodes aboard a Philippines airliner. All 36 aboard are killed.
Sept. 6 – “Skyjack Sunday” in Jordan. 3 planes (TWA, Swissair, Pan Am) en route to the U.S. hijacked, 400+ hostages, planes blown up in Jordan, Governments agreed to PFLP’s demands, released terrorists from jails and hostages released.
Sept. 14 – The PFLP hijacked TWA flight to Ammon, 4 Americans injured.
1971
Nov. 28 – Jordanian prime minister Tal killed by terrorists at the Sheraton Hotel in Cairo, Egypt.
Dec. – Jordanian ambassador to London, England is shot by hit squad.
1972
Jan. 26 – Bomb explodes on a Yugoslav plane killing all but one passenger.
May 30 – Ben Gurion Airport, Israel attack killed 26, and wounded 78 U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico.
Sept. 5 – Palestinian terrorists seize 11 athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, Germany, 9 hostages and 5 terrorists killed, plus David Berger from Cleveland.
1973
March 2 – Khartoum, Sudan. Cleo Noel, Jr., U.S. ambassador, and George C. Moore, U.S. diplomat, were held hostage and then killed by terrorists at the U.S. Embassy.
Aug. 5 – Suicide squad attacks Athens airport, Greece, killing 3 civilians and injuring 55.
Dec. 17 – Bomb explodes at Pan Am office at Rome, Italy killing 32 and injuring 50+. The terrorists take 7 Italian policemen hostage and hijack an aircraft to Athens, Greece, killing one of them.
1974
March 1 – Diplomats taken hostage from Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, 2 that are killed are Americans.
April 11 – Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building killing 18 people, 9 were children.
Sept. 8 – Athens, Greece. TWA Flight 841 exploded from bomb in cargo hold, all 88 passengers killed, including 32-year-old Steven Lowe, an American citizen.
Nov. 23 – British DC-10 hijacked at Dubai, UAE, flown to Tunisia where a German passenger was killed.
1975
Jan. 19 – Arab terrorists attack Orly airport, Paris, France, seizing 10 hostages from a bathroom. French provided the terrorists with a plane to fly them to safety in Baghdad, Iraq.
Sept. 30 – Hungarian airplane explodes killing all 64 persons on board.
Dec. 21 – Carlos “The Jackal” holds 11 oil ministers and 59 civilians hostage during the OPEC meeting in Vienna, Austria. Flew to Algeria, got $300,000,000 in ransom money, Carlos and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists escape.
1976
Jan. 1 – 82 innocent travelers are killed aboard a Lebanese plane.
June 27 – Air France airliner hijacked, forced to fly to Uganda. Some 258 passengers and crew are held hostage. 3 passengers killed. July 4th, Israeli commandos rescue the remaining hostages.
Aug. 11 – Terrorists attack Istanbul airport, Turkey, killing 4 civilians (1 from U.S.) and injuring 20.
Dec. 4 – Terrorists occupied the Indonesian Embassy in The Hague, Netherlands, 1 official killed.
Dec. 14 – Passenger train hijacked and passengers were kept hostage, 3 were killed.
1977
Jan. 1 – F.E. Melov U.S. ambassador to Lebanon, and Robert O.Waring, the U.S. economic counselor, kidnapped and later killed in Beirut.
Oct. 13 – Palestinian terrorists hijack a Lufthansa Flight 181 Boeing 737 and order it to fly around a number of Middle East destinations for four days, pilot is killed by the terrorists, 90 hostages rescued.
1978
March 11 – Gail Rubin, niece of U.S. Senator Ribicoff, among 38 people shot to death by terrorists on a beach near Tel Aviv.
June 2 – A bomb kills 2 people at the CHOGM meeting in Sydney Australia.
1979
July 29 – Terrorist bombs two railway stations in Madrid, kills 7.
Nov. 4 – Terrorists seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. 13 freed, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981 – 444 days – at the inauguration of President Ronald Reagan.
1980
April 30 – Terrorists took over the Iranian Embassy in London, holding 26 hostages, 2 of whom died on May 5th after being tortured. Much of the embassy was destroyed by fire.
1981
April 19 – 13 people killed, 177 injured in a terrorist attack in Davao Philippines.
May 13 – Pope John Paul II seriously wounded in assassination attempt in Rome, Italy, by terrorist Mehmet Ali Agca.
Oct. 6 – Egyptian President Anwar Sadat machine gunned dead by Islamic Jihad in Cairo for working for peace. 7 others killed, 28 wounded. The assassins are later executed.
1982
Beginning of the 8 years of terrorism in Lebanon.
July 19 – David Dodge, President of the American University in Beirut kidnapped, spends one year in captivity.
Aug. 19 – Two American citizens, Anne Van Zanten and Grace Cutler, were killed along with 6 others when the PLO bombed a Kosher restaurant in Paris, France.
Sept. 14 – Lebanon’s President Gemayel and 26 others assassinated by a massive car bomb in Beirut.
1983
Mar. 16 – 5 Marines wounded in hand grenade attack on Beirut International Airport.
April 18 – CIA’s Middle East Director, and 83 others are killed, 120 injured in truck bomb on the US Embassy in Lebanon.
Sept. 29 – Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, explodes killing all 166 aboard.
Oct. 23 – Simultaneous suicide truck bombs in Lebanon: 1st crashed into lobby of US Marine Corps Headquarters, 241 Marines dead, 82 seriously injured – and 2nd was French compounds killing 58 paratroopers.
Dec. 12 – US Embassy in Kuwait targeted to destroy the building with a truck bomb, attack foiled by guards and the device killed 5 people and injured 80.
1984
Jan. 18 – Malcolm Kerr, President of the American University of Beirut, was killed by two Hizballah gunmen.
Mar. 8 – Rev. Weir and wife kidnapped in Lebanon and held for 16 months.
Mar. 9 – Car bomb kills 80 (22 Americans) and wounds more than 200 civilians when it drove past the checkpoint at the U.S. Embassy in Awkar.
Mar. 16 – Hizballah kidnapped, tortured and killed William Buckley, an officer at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut.
Apr. 12 – Hizballah bombed restaurant adjacent to US Air Force base in Torregon Spain, 18 servicemen killed and 83 Americans wounded.
Sept. 20- US embassy in the Beirut is bombed – 2 servicemen and 23 employees are killed, 21 Americans injured including the U.S. and British Ambassadors. 50+ Lebanese were injured.
Dec. 4 – Terrorists hijacked Kuwait Airlines Flight 221 and demanded the release from Kuwaiti jails of some members, serving sentences for attacks on French and American targets. 2 Americans murdered.
1985
March 16 – US journalist Terry Anderson kidnapped in Lebanon, finally released in Dec. 1991 – 6 years later.
April 5 – Bomb explodes outside Hezbollah headquarters in Beirut killing 80 people.
April 12 – Bombing of U.S. soldier’s favorite restaurant in Madrid, killing 18 and injuring 82.
June 14 – TWA Boeing 727 Flight 847 hijacked en route to Rome, 8 crew and 145 passengers were held for 17 days, U.S. Navy diver was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the hostages were released after the US pressured to release 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.
Sept. 30 – Four Soviet diplomats kidnapped in Lebanon, 1 killed but other three released unharmed after a relative of the terrorist leader’s was kidnapped and killed by the Soviet KGB.
Oct. 7 – Terrorists seize the Italian cruise liner, Achille Lauro, during a cruise in the Mediterranean, taking more than 700 people hostage for 3 days. Disabled U.S. citizen, Leon Klinghoffer, was murdered in front of other hostages by throwing him in the ocean, before the Egyptian Government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.
Nov. 23 – 98 passengers and crew of an Egyptair Flight 648 are held hostage by Palestinian terrorists in Malta. 5 passengers shot, 2 died, later 57 additional passengers killed when the terrorists set off explosives in the aircraft.
Dec. 27 – Suicide grenade and gun attacks in passenger terminals at Rome and Vienna, Italy airports results in 16 people being killed plus 5 Americans and more than 100 civilians injured.
1986
March 30-April 2nd – A bomb exploded on a TWA flight 840 from Rome as it approached Athens airport. The attack killed 4 U.S. citizens who were sucked through a hole made by the blast, 1 infant, and 9 injured, although the plane safely landed.
April 6 – An explosion at the “La Belle” nightclub in Berlin, U.S. soldiers’ hang-out, was bombed, killing 3 and injuring 230 people, including 79 U.S. soldiers.
Sept. 5 – Pan Am Boeing 747 Flight 73 en route to Frankfurt and on to New York hijacked by Palestinian terrorists, with 379 passengers, including 89 Americans, 22 hostages killed, 127 wounded.
Sept. 9 – Hezballah kidnapped Frank Reed, President of American University in Beirut, and held for 44 months, and Joseph Cicippio, and Edward Tracy who were each held for 5 years.
Sept. 17 – A 10-month series of terrorist bomb attacks in France begins. One bomb in Paris kills 5 and injures 52.
1987
A car bomb exploded outside the back gate of the U.S. Embassy in Rome and rockets were fired at the compound from across the street. One passerby was injured in the attacks.
1988
Feb. 5 – US Marine Corps Lt. Colonel Higgens, Chief of the U.N. Truce Force kidnapped and murdered by Hezbollah.
March 16 – 4000+ Kurdish civilian bodies found after Saddam Hussein ordered nerve gas attack (weapon of mass destruction) in northern Iraq, after they revolted against his rule from Baghdad. 1.5 million relocated, 200,000 disappeared.
April 5 – 122 held hostage after a Kuwaiti Boeing 747 was hijacked and diverted to Iran, then Cyprus. Kuwait refused requests by hijackers to release 17 convicted terrorists. After 15 days the hijackers were granted asylum in Algeria and released their hostages.
June 26 – US Naval Attache killed in Athens, Greece.
Dec. 21 – Pan Am Flight 103 – Boeing 747 from London to New York, blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb. All 259 passengers and 11 on the ground were killed, including 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel.
1989
June 12 – A bomb exploded aboard an unoccupied boat used by U.S. consular staff.
Sept. 19 – 171 passengers killed when French UTA flight 772 explodes in mid-air over Niger.
October 11 – Izmir, Turkey. A bomb went off outside a U.S. military PX.
1990
Feb. – Attack of tour bus in Egypt killing 11.
1991
Feb. 7 – Incirlik Air Base, Turkey, U.S. civilian contractor shot as he was getting into his car.
Oct. 28 – Ankara, Turkey. Victor Marwick, an American soldier serving at the Turkish-American base, Tuslog, was killed and his wife wounded in a car bomb attack.
Oct. 28 – Two car bombings killed a U.S. Air Force Sergeant and severely wounded an Egyptian diplomat in Istanbul.
Nov. 8 – Bomb destroyed part of the American University in Beirut, killing 1 and wounding 12.
1992
March 17 – Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina, destroyed by bomb killing 29, injuring 60.
Hotel in Yemen bombed and U.S. servicemen killed, Operation Restore Hope.
1993
Jan. 25, Virginia, U.S.A. A Pakistani terrorist opened fire with AK-47 on CIA employees standing outside the building. Two agents, Frank Darling and Bennett Lansing, were killed and 3 others wounded.
Feb. 26 – World Trade Center in New York badly damaged by a massive bomb by Islamic terrorists. The van bomb was planted in an underground garage and left 6 people dead and 1042 injured and almost � billion dollars in damage.
Feb. 26 – A bomb exploded inside a cafe in downtown Cairo killing 3, 18 wounded, 2 U.S. citizens.
July 5 – In 8 separate incidents, 19 Western tourists traveling in southeastern Turkey were kidnapped, including U.S. citizen Starger, after weeks in captivity, they were released.
Oct – Killing of U. S. soldiers in Somalia.
1994
July 18 – 86 civilians killed and 300 wounded in bomb attack on Jewish social centre in Buneos Aires, Argentina.
July 26 – Israeli Embassy in London is car-bombed, wounding 20.
Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked to crash the plane in Paris but didn’t succeed.
A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman.
1995
Jan. 22 – Islamic Jihad militants blow themselves up amid a group of soldiers near Netanya, killing 21. Operation Bojinka is discovered on a laptop in a Manila, Philippines apartment, in which Osama bin Laden was planning to blow up 12 planes as they flew to the U.S., plus kill the Pope.
March 8 – Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan.
April 9 – Islamic Jihad suicide bomber attacks military convoy in Gaza, killing 7 soldiers and an American tourist.
May 5 – Five foreign oil workers murdered by Islamic GIA terrorists in Algeria.
June 26 – Assassination attempt made against Egyptian President Honsi Mubarak by Islamic radicals who ambushed his motorcade.
July 4 – Six tourists, including two U.S. citizens taken hostage in Kashmir, India. Terrorists demanded the release of Muslim militants held in Indian prisons. On Aug. 13 the decapitated body of the Norwegian hostage was found with a note stating that the other hostages also would be killed if the group’s demands were not met. They were not and all other hostages were killed in 1996 by the terrorists.
July 25 – Islamic terrorists explode bomb in metro station in Paris, France, killing 7 people and injuring 84.
Nov. 13 – Car bomb exploded at US Army Office of the Program Manager for Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization, in Saudi Arabia, killing seven, five of them U.S. citizens, and wounding nearly a hundred.
Nov. 19 – Islamic radicals plant bomb in Egyptian embassy in Pakistan killing 17.
Dec. 11 – 15 concurrent car bombings in Algiers kill 15 civilians and over 200 injured.
1996
Feb. 11 – Terrorists explode car bomb in Algiers killing 17. The following month, 2 more killed in another bomb and 10 are killed in a train ambush in western Algeria.
Feb. 25 – A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including 3 U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another two U.S. citizens.
April 19 – Eighteen Greek tourists were gunned down near the historic Pyramids in Egypt by Islamic terrorists aiming to destroy the country’s tourist industry.
May – Osama bin Laden unites the Islamic Fundamentalists worldwide in their Jihad against Jews and Western Gentiles, such as al-Qaeda, Palestinian Authority, Hezbollah, Hamas, Mujahideen, using the Taliban’s organization to help fund the operations.
June 25 – Terrorists explode a truck bomb next to a USAF Khobar Towers housing facility at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and 515 injured including 240 U.S. personnel.
Islamic terrorists attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 71 people, most of them vacationers.
Aug. 26 – Sudan Airways A310 Airbus airliner hijacked en route to Jordan and diverted to England. British authorities negotiate with hijackers who release all the 13 crew and 180 passengers unharmed.
Dec. 3 – A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train, killing four and injuring 86 persons, including a U.S. citizen.
A terrorist opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the US, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself.
Dec. 23 – A car bomb in the Algerian capital, Algiers, kills three and injures 70 people in cafe near the port. Again a week later, a car bomb kills 28 people and injures 35 people. 3rd car bomb in the past two weeks, killing additional 13 people and injuring more than 250.
1997
Jan. 2 – Major cities worldwide and U.S. get letter bombs with Egyptian postmarks at newspaper bureaus in DC, New York, London, Riyadh, S.A., and Leavenworth, KN. Experts defused all but the 1 in London, injuring 2.
Jan. 7 to 21st – Islamic terrorist rampage during these 14 days with car bombs and beheadings in Algiers, total of 238 dead, 139 wounded.
Feb. 23 – Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State building in New York, killing 1 and wounding over a dozen visitors before turning the gun on himself.
March 7 – Two killed in bus bomb attack in Beijing, China.
April – Terrorists behead innocent civilians this whole month with a total of 272 murdered and over 100 injured. Knives, axes and chainsaws were used and many of the bodies were burned while still alive.
Sept. 18- 9 German tourists killed when Muslims fire bombed bus in Cairo, Egypt.
Nov. 12 – 2 Terrorists shot to death 4 U.S. auditors of a Texas petroleum company and their driver at a Sheraton Hotel in Karachi, Pakistan.
Nov. 17 – 58 western tourists killed and 30 injured in gun attack at historic monuments in southern Egypt. 6 of the Islamic terrorists are killed in shoot out with police.
1998
Jan. 15 – U.S. Embassy bombing in Peru.
Feb. 23 (Published) – A Statement signed by many Islamic Jihad Leaders from most Muslim countries, first by Sheikh Osamah Bin-Ladin: “…In compliance with God’s order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies–civilians and military–is an individual duty for every Muslim who can, in any country in which it is possible… We — with Allah’s help — call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded, to comply with Allah’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. Unless you go forth, Allah will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.”
Aug. 7 – Simultaneous bombs in US Embassies in Kenya, and Tanzania, heavily damaged by massive attacks. In the Nairobi attack 292 people were killed, including 12 Americans, and 5,000 injured. 10 people were killed and 86 injured in Tanzania incident for a total of 302 dead, 5086 injured within an hour.
Aug. 25 – 3 people killed and 25 injured in bomb attack on Planet Hollywood restaurant in Cape Town, South Africa.
Dec. 28 – 16 Western tourists kidnapped, 12 Britons, 2 U.S. citizens, and 2 Australians on the main road to Aden, Yemen. Four victims were killed during a rescue attempt the next day.
1999
Aug. 31 to Sept. 22nd – Russian apartment bombings kill almost 300 and injured 100.
Oct. 31 – EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed off the U.S. coast of Massachusetts, killing all 217 people on board, including 100 Americans.
Nov. 12 – Six rockets were fired at the U.S. and U.N. offices in Islamabad, Pakistan.
Dec. – Millennium terror plots foiled as customs agents arrest a man smuggling in explosives. Plan to attack Los Angeles airport and other sites intercepted by CIA. Also Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US tourists in Jordan, pick up 28 suspects.
Indian Airlines Flight 814, en route to Delhi, India is hijacked, 1 passenger is killed. After negotiations with the Taliban, the hostages are released.
2000
The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.
Oct. 12 – A suicide boat exploded next to the U.S.S. Cole (guided-missile destroyer), blowing a hole 40 feet in diameter, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 39.
2001
Feb. 5 – A bomb blast in Moscow’s Byelorusskaya subway station injures 15 people.
March 28 – Bombing at bus stop in Yemen. U.S. citizens injured including a 15 year old boy from NY.
Aug. 9 – Bombing at Sbarro’s pizzeria, killed 15 and wounded over 90, 2 of which were U.S. citizens.
Sept. 11 – 4 U.S. jetliners hijacked and forced to crash into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon like missiles, and 1 crashed in Pennsylvania on the way to the Capital Building in D.C. In all, 266 people perished in the four planes, 2602 people were killed on the ground, plus 343 firefighters, and 184 people at the Pentagon. Almost 5000 injured, 500 rescue workers now have respiratory ailments. 7 buildings collapsed in NY and 23 damaged, plus 4 subway stations.
Paris embassy terrorist attack plot foiled
Oct. 27 – Darya Khanah bombed
Dec. 13 – Terrorist attack on Indian Parliament.
Dec. 22 – Richard Reid, attempting to destroy American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami, is subdued by passengers and flight attendants before he could detonate his shoe bomb.
2002
Jan. 27 – A Palestinian woman triggered a massive explosion in Jerusalem killing 1 Israeli and injuring more than 150, including American Mark Sokolow, his wife, and both teenage daughters. Sokolow had survived the 9-11 attack on the World Trade Center, escaping from his law office on the 38th floor of the South Tower before it collapsed.
Feb. 16 – Bombing in Karnei Shomron, in a group of teenage girls from the U.S. 2 killed, 4 wounded.
Singapore embassies terrorist attack plot foiled
March 24 – 20 people die and 93 injured in 3 bomb attacks on Russian towns near the border of Chechnya.
April – Explosion at most historic synagogue in Tunisia left 21 dead, most are German tourists.
May 9 – A bomb exploded in Dagestan kills 42 people and injures 130 during Victory Day festivities.
French oil tanker Limburg bombing off Yemen
Kidnapping and murder of journalist Daniel Pearl
Oct. 12 – Bali car bombing of holidaymakers in a nightclub kills 202 Australian citizens.
Zamboanga bombings in the Philippines<
Oct. 19 – Car bomb explodes at McDonald’s restaurant in Moscow, killing 1 person and wounding 5.
Oct. 23 – Moscow theater hostage crisis begins; 120 hostages and 40 terrorists killed in rescue 3 days later.
Nov. – Kenyan hotel suicide bombing kills 16 safari tourists.
Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2003
May 10- Suicide bombers killed 36 (10 U.S. citizens), at housing compounds for westerners in Riyadh, S.A. Many wounded.
May 12 – attack outside U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.
May 14 – 16 die in a suicide bombing at a religious festival in southeastern Chechnya.
May – 4 bombs killed 33 tourists (8 U.S. citizens) in Casablanca, Morocco.
July 5 – 15 people die and 40 are injured in bomb attacks at a rock festival in Moscow.
Aug. 1 – An explosion at the Russian hospital in North Ossetia kills 50 people and injures 76.
Aug. – Suicide car bomb killed 12 and injured over 150 at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
Sept. 3- A bomb on a passenger train in southern Russia kills 7 people and injures 90.
Oct. 15 – Bombing of US diplomatic convoy in the Gaza Strip: 3 U.S. citizens killed.
Nov. – Explosions rocked a Riyadh, S.A. housing compound, killing 17.
Nov. – Truck bombs detonated at London bank and British consulate in Istanbul kills 26, injures 22.
Dec. 5 – Suicide bombers kill 46 people in an attack on a train in southern Russia.
Dec. 9 – A blast in the center of Moscow kills 6 people and wounds at least 11.
Bombings of United States expatriate housing compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kill 26 and injure 160.
Attacks in Casablanca, Morocco leaves 41 dead. The attack involved 12 bombers and 5 targets. The targets were “Western and Jewish”.
Istanbul Bombings: Within five days, truck bombs go off at two synagogues, the British Consulate, and the HSBC Bank in Istanbul, Turkey
2004
109 Kurds are killed in 2 suicide bombings in Arbil, Iraq
Feb. 6 – Bomb on Moscow subway kills 41.
Feb. 27 – Superferry 14 is bombed in the Philippines by Abu Sayyaf, killing 116.
March 11 – 10 Simultaneous bombings of busiest rush hour commuter trains in Madrid, Spain kills 202 people and injures more than 1,400.
April 21 – Bombing of a security building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills 5.
May 29 – Al-Khobar massacres–Islamic terrorists kill 22 people and one American at an oil compound in Saudi Arabia.
June 8 – Robert Jacobs, a US defense contractor employee is assassinated at his home in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia by Al-Qaeda terrorists.
June 11 – Terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson, Jr. in Riyadh.
Aug. 24 – Russian airplane bombings kill 90.
Aug. 31 – A blast near a subway station entrance in northern Moscow, caused by a suicide bomber, kills 10 people and injures 33.
Sept. 1 – 3 – Beslan school hostage crisis in North Ossetia, Russia results in over 330 dead.
Sept. 9 – Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia was bombed, killing 9 people.
Oct. 7 – 3 car bombs explode in the Sinai Peninsula hotel, killing 32 and wounding 114, most of them tourists.
Don’t consider you dense in the least, Flyover. Nor am I dense to the increased jihad attacks, on the rise since the 60s. But then, I don’t equate everyone Muslim with those actively waging jihad, no more than I equate everyone Pentacostal with that crazy mother who killed her kids.
I do, however, hear a lot about how we all are on the convert/kill list, yet have to hear about one person that has ever – even once in their lives – been approached by a Muslim to be converted. But then, if I believe all this mandate they convert or kill all infidels, anyone that was approached by such a Muslim to be converted wouldn’t live to tell us the tale.
In which case, the news would be filled with all the vanquished infidels that refused to be converted.
I believe tacdf’s point was that the 911 attacks by the global Islamic jihad groups were not meant to “convert” anyone. And in fact, their stated goal was to bring the US economy to it’s knees by attacking our financial center, followed with attacks on our Pentagon military arm and a representative government building… the latter two in order to delay or thwart any type of response to the attack on our financial center. In that vein, I have to agree with tacdf’s commentary that the 911 attacks were not meant to be an act of evangelism.
@MataHarley:
I believe you are mistaken about Tacdf’s point. This was from his comment number 16.
It was in response to my comment number 6. He is very clearly equating the 9/11 attacks to Christian evangelicals spreading christianity. This is one of the things that frustrates me the most about the left. While I do agree that not all muslims are looking to spread Sharia through violent jihad, This was not the point tacdf was trying for.
Moral equivalence is how the left allows itself as an intellectual movement to invariably allign themselves with evil over good, failure over success, and wrong over right. By never allowing themselves to discriminate between behaviors or values which conclude in vastly different societal outcomes, they are led to the conclusion that any success, aquisition of wealth, or any other measure of gain must nescessarily be the product of chicanery. So, according to the worldview of tadcf, not only is the Christian knocking on my door the same, morally as the peaceful folks flying airplanes into buildings, but they are elevated to that exact level of evil he/she is defending. This view also concludes that any discrimination of thought between these behaviors could only be the result of a bigoted or racist mindset.
It is my belief however that the planting of a flag of Sharia on ground zero was part of the goal of destroying the symbol of America’s economic success since the early 90’s. It was the Islamic world which stated this by the way, since the early 90’s. This is just a point of listening to them. Another point, is listening to what they say in their native language, rather than what we are told in English.
Well, Flyover, I sure won’t claim authority on knowing what was on tacdf’s mind. Clairvoyant I am not.. most especially into a lib/prog mind (thank heavens… LOL)
Since I didn’t pull the bulk of his comments together into one overview, and only looked at his single comment that 911 wasn’t meant to spread Islam, that’s what I addressed. And agree with.
However if he has proven to be self-contradictory, and that comment wasn’t consistent to the rest of his thoughts, then I stand corrected as to his intent not quite being as simple as that single sentence indicated.
@Flyovercountry #32:
“Clergy”?
“Acceptable means of spreading Islam” or “acceptable means of self-defense” in the minds of rougly 52% of Muslims? Do you have a link to a particular study?
They exist. Including Islamic fundamentalist radicals who oppose the indiscriminate violence of al Qaeda; as well as perceiving that the jihad movement has brought more harm to Islam than good; specifically that the attacks of 9/11 have been counterproductive, resulting in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
But even those undesirables get lumped together with the global jihad movement by “Islamophobes” who warn of “creeping Sharia”. Even conversion by peaceful means is unacceptable to some who think Constitutional rights should not extend to those who practice Islam because they have decided that “Islam is the enemy”.
@Hard Right #26:
Do you have a link to the video/transcript? Is it the 60 Minutes interview, or something else?
@suek #23:
As Aye asked, what do you consider a “significant number”? Because from what I’ve seen and looked at, indications are that the majority of Muslims in America are not a threat, even if there are a number of them who are.
@wordsmith:
Investor’s Business Daily poll, conducted in 2006.
Can you provide a direct link? I’m having a bit of trouble tracking it down.
Meanwhile for 2010:
@Patvann #14:
This appears to have been a decision made on Bush’s watch:
Gee…in light of the GZM uproar (just one of a number of anti-Islam and anti-Mosque goings on these days), I wonder what kind of report card we’ll be receiving from him?
Flyovercountry:
One thing I do not do is ‘ramble’. Maybe you better look that word up in the dictionary. But, I’m given to think that’s one of the methods conservatives think that an argument can be won: Call it “rambling”. Count the words in this reply, compared to yours, to see who rambles.
Newt Gingrich was not ‘exonerated’; the majority of the charges were dropped. “Eighty-three of the 84 allegations were dropped.[21] Gingrich denied the charges over misuse of tax-exempt funds; however, he admitted to providing inaccurate statements during the probe over the college course and agreed to pay $300,000 for the cost of the investigation.[20][22] The House Ethics Committee concluded that inaccurate information supplied to investigators represented “intentional or … reckless” disregard of House rules.[23 “. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich
The difference in charges being ‘dropped’, and a defendant being ‘exonerated’ are two different things. Charges can be dropped for a variety of different reasons—none of which must imply innocence. Exoneration implies innocence.
Do you know what a ‘hypocrite’ is? Or is it just a word you toss around when you don’t like what someone says. The impeachment charges leveled against Clinton were for perjury, but Newt—like many Republicans—also accused him of having sex with Monica Lewinsky (aka adultery )–Newt, while involved in adultery himself. Many of those accusing Republicans have also been embroiled in adulterous affairs since—now that’s hypocrisy.
It’s easy to make claims that can’t be proved. In this country, someone is innocent until proven guilty. Just because Obama is involved in a real estate transaction with a criminal (Tony Rezko) does not make him a criminal. You can make all the charges you want, but they are baseless without evidence—except maybe to right-wing minds.
Now maybe you better read history. All the dictators and thugs in Latin America had been supported for most of the 20th century by the US. We are the people that we trained their agents at the College of the Americas to conduct torture and terrorism on the population. Perhaps you should read just one biography, a single book about, Che Guevara, before you criticize who he was.And, by the way, learn a little about Islam, before you continue spouting falsehoods about methods they use to spread Islam.
Give me a reference about “our government being over-run with spies”. Funny, you don’t mention the captured US spies, like the ones that were just traded for those apprehended here. Spying is just a way of doing business! While you’re at it, give me a list of “full scale invasions of sovereign nations”, during the Cold War.
John Galt:
I always do the research. I’ve proved you to be wrong on many occasions.
Aye Chihuahua:
If I don’t document some thing, all you have to do is ask. Will your group do the same when I ask?
@tadcf:
Well, you’d best get started then because you’ve been asked.