The news keeps getting better regarding the Hoffman, Scozzafava, Owens race. Scott Johnson from Powerline relates a conversation he had with a friend and “principal of the political consulting firm of Red Sea LLC and the polling firm Basswood Research,” Jon Lerner.
Following up on Rothenberg’s column, I called Jon to ask for his take on the congressional election. He made so many interesting points that I asked him to reiterate them briefly in a message for Power Line readers. Jon writes:
To recap our discussion of NY-23, I have done three surveys for the Club for Growth. The initial survey was conducted at the very outset of the race, before any advertising was done by anyone. At that time, “Republican” Dede Scozzafava held a narrow lead. But it was apparent that her lead would not withstand the heat of battle.
About half of her support came from Democrats in the Watertown area who knew her pro-labor, liberal voting record and liked it. The other half came from Republicans who did not know about her liberal record but were supporting her because she was the Republican candidate. Once Democrats quickly learned that they could vote for a real Democrat, Bill Owens, they left Scozzafava. And once Republicans learned how liberal her record was, and that they had a conservative alternative in Doug Hoffman, they also left Scozzafava.
What remains is a close race between Owens and Hoffman, with Scozzafava continuing to collapse. Financially, Hoffman is in good shape, thanks largely to the Club for Growth and online donations. The DCCC, AFSCME, and SEIU are now 100 percent negative against Hoffman in their TV ads, which is proof of the closeness of the race.
What remains of Scozzafava’s vote is still about 2:1 Republican, so Hoffman has a good chance of growing further. But it’s a close one that could go either way.
Ironically, the one person who is doing the most harm in the race is Newt Gingrich. Scozzafava has no chance to win any longer. By Newt signaling to conservatives that it’s okay to support Scozzafava, he is making it more likely that Owens wins.
Even the NRCC understands this, as they have wisely limited their advertising message to attacking Owens rather than promoting Scozzafava. If Hoffman wins, and he very well might, it will be a great victory for the conservative movement, and a great lesson to the Republican Party.
Not sure what in the hell Newt is thinking. When the day comes that conservatives vote for someone just because he is Republican, and for no other reason ie: having a real conservative background, then we know we are sunk as a party.
UPDATE
That is why tonight, I’m proud to endorse Doug Hoffman, a Republican, running on the Conservative line for Congress in the 23rd Congressional District.
His endorsement comes on his other recent endorsements from Sarah Palin, Fred Thompson, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, Congressman Todd Tiahrt, Congressman John Linder, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, Senator Jim DeMint, Dick Armey, and many others.
See author page
Newt is an errand boy for the RNC on this one, as to gain points for a 2012- why else would he go down with the ship like this? He’s not that principled or loyal, he’s stuck in a situation of his own doing, tho- likely made some agreement that he surely now regrets, especially since he’s been caught lying about the RNC not choosing Scozzafava- and his credibility damaged.
Gingrich would have had to be hiding in a cave to have missed the message of the TEA party movement… makes me think he’s acting in the service of party grandees, and the deal is that he fights this one out till the bitter end…
But with him pissing-off conservatives like this, I’d say Newt’s toast- I sure won’t ever take him seriously again.
I stopped taking newt seriously a while ago. He has become the very “country club republican” we want out of the party.
The way he’s attacking Hoffman supporters is disgusting and very alinskey like. He’s part of the good old boys network we are trying to dismantle. Earth to newt-GO AWAY.
When I first heard that Newt was supporting the “Republican” candidate, Scozzafava, I wrote him an email and asked him to justify his actions. This is the response I got back:
——————————————————-
Thank you for writing.
Newt believes the New York 23 special election is a test of whether we respect local parties and local leaders.
There were four local GOP meetings in the 23rd district to decide who the party would nominate. Hoffman and Scozzafava competed in all four. Dede Scozzafava is an elected state representative from the largest county in the district who understands local issues. Doug Hoffman, who does not live in the district, did not finish in the top three in a single meeting. Not surprisingly, the district Republicans picked Scozzafava as their top pick in all four meetings.
Considering it was such a unanimous decision, Newt believes the threshold for the national conservative establishment to try and override their decision ought to be very high.
While there are clearly areas where Dede Scozzafava is not a conservative, there are many areas where she is: she is endorsed by the National Rifle Association, signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, supports keeping the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent, voted against the Governor’s big-spending, tax increase budget, opposes the health care plan being pushed for by President Obama and Nancy Pelosi, opposes cap and trade and energy tax increases, favors an all of the above energy plan that includes more domestic oil and natural gas drilling, and will vote against Nancy Pelosi and for John Boehner for Speaker.
In addition to this fundamental question about respecting local leadership, and not assuming we know better than people who actually live in the district what is best for them, there is also a grave danger in this NY 23 race of establishing the precedent that every faction of the Republican Party can run a third party candidate if they lose a primary or a nominating process. That is a clear road to reelecting President Obama and making Nancy Pelosi Speaker for life. This will only lead to Left-wing government that will harm the country.
Remember, when Newt became Speaker of the House it was in part because Republicans swept the 1993 elections. Three of the four Republican winners that year were moderates – significantly to the left of the conservative Republican base: Riordan was elected mayor of Los Angeles, Whitman as governor of New Jersey, and Giuliani as mayor of New York. George Allen, a conservative, was elected as governor of Virginia.
Furthermore, many of the Republicans elected in the 1994 landslide were moderates, including Nancy Johnson, Tom Campbell, Jim Leach, Chris Shays, Jan Myer, and Jennifer Dunn. They all signed the Contract with America and this coalition of Republicans passed Welfare reform, sealed the fate of HillaryCare, supported NAFTA, passed the first tax cut in 16 years, an increase in defense and intelligence spending, and (despite a Clinton veto that shut down the government) a four-year balanced budget.
In other words, support from moderate Republican elected officials enabled conservative governance, it did not prevent it. This is a lesson we should keep in mind to counter the impulse to force out from the Republican Party anyone who is to the left of conservatives on some issues.
Thank you again for writing and letting us know how you feel.
Here is a link to some recent interviews Newt has had on the topic if you want to know more:
http://newt.org/tabid/193/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4604/Default.aspx
Sincerely,
The Newt.org Team
——————————————————-
I suppose I can see what they’re trying to say, but I disagree with his decision. If the Republican party continues to support candidates who claim to be Republican but do not represent core Republican values the party will cease to be a valid party.
I stopped taking Newt seriously when he did that photo op with Nancy Pelosi. That was enough to gag a maggot.Not to mention his antics with Al Sharpton.
Well I’ll add that Newt really never struck me as a real conservative …. EVEN back in ’94. He’s a politician first. I remember him not really agreeing with Reagan on stuff before WJC was elected. Newt struck me as full of himself and though surely a good guy and lead well initially, fundamentally failed conservatives after the GOP took control of Congress. A lot of bluster and this and that, but on the big things that could really changed things, he was a politician first and it showed.
I understand ALL leaders in Congress have to do this to a point… it’s the only way, but the Tea Party movement taps into the anti-Washington sentiment that even Newt was guilty of and obviously still is.
Top down, big government, not small and neutered like what Reagan preached and tried to proclaim. Too much of the seeds for the stock boom/bust and easy money fiascos from the late 90’s happened or were allowed to under Newt or his immediate successors.
Newt showed his colors on this and I’m glad. He expresses the big-tent GOP theme… the theme that has so ruined the GOP with squishy RINO candidates shooting for the middle.
I fear a large class in the 2012 cycle of Huckabee/Newt/McCain-like RINO’s who will pitch the big tent ideas and fight the real GOP conservatives as Palin, Pawlenty, and Jindal. It’s 1979 all over again and the best candidate(s)s are going to have to fight the middlers ….. see Reagan vs Bush 41 and vs Dole , etc.
Reagan was truly an outlier in the GOP… before him and afterwards, they kept shooting for the big-tent, big government “middle” and undecided independents at the expense of conservative values and a small federal government. ” who’s turn is it to get support this time? ” Screw that!
2010 will be a watershed election year for the Tea Party Movement and it will be interesting to see if true conservatives can stand for something and get the GOP to stop being so stupid.
Funny, Hoffman and others say otherwise. Really, the idiots who think we need to move further to the left got together behind closed doors and picked her. There was no “competition.”
Endorsed by the NRA, that is good. Unfortunately she is also supported by the Working Families Party. You don’t get that kind of support by accident. She opposes health care reform? Too bad I saw the quote newt uses to claim this, and nowhere did she say ANY SUCH THING. Taxpayer pledge? Hahahahahaha! She voted to raise taxes so often her LIBERAL opponent is able to legitimately criticize her on the issue.
Michelle Malkin has the scoop on her so-called fiscal Conservatism: “…as a state assemblywoman, she voted for massive tax increases, Democratic budgets and a $180 million state bank bailout. She also supported the trillion-dollar federal stimulus package — which every House Republican voted against.”
But wait, there is more from Michelle.
“…She supports the federal “card-check” legislation that would massively boost union rolls — and Democratic voting rolls — at the expense of rank-and-file workers’ free choice. And for that matter, at the expense of Republican electoral prospects. Card check is the key to a Democratic majority in perpetuity. Big Labor bosses have said as much.”
In addition to all that, she is pro-gay marriage and won the Margaret Sanger award for her abortion stance/work.
So newt wants us to ignore all of the above in the HOPES she is telling the truth and won’t be another olympia snowe? No thanks.
What is infuriating is that Conservatives have been heavily victorious in that district since the late 1800’s. Yet, they pick a flaming leftist that even markos milsoutas of the daily kos supports! On top of that newt then attacks those that disagree, with straw men and slander. Newt, you are lying when you say she is a moderate. She is nothing of the sort.
It is clear that newt is part of the idiocracy that thinks we need to move further left instead of back to our pricipals.
I am unable to find a particluar quote by Reagan, but the quote stated we should not dilute our principals just to gain numbers. Newt seems deliberately blinded to that fact when he quotes Reagan in support of his lemming like agenda. Yes we took over in 1994, but we find ourselves in our current mess because of those “moderates” and those who abandoned their principals.
savage24, Newt & Nancy as couch potatoes, hanging with Brother Al, endorsing Scozzafava and not Hoffman. No thanks Newt. No more RINOs, no more Moderates that can’t respect or represent my Values or win Margaret Sanger Awards from those that slay the unborn in the womb.
Newt went off the reservation and is batting zero and playing left field. He does not understand what Americans don’t want or need that was made clear during the Summer Congress recess by angry Voters and Taxpayers. I left the Republican Party years ago when Fiscal Discipline went away, a failure to Impeach Clinton for Perjury by the Republican Senators, NAFTA got passage and Immigration Laws were not enforced.
I am a Conservative and not bipartisan in any fashion. Newt and others betrayed my faith and trust. Fred Thompson, who I admired for his role in Watergate was a non candidate in 08 and I cannot support but a handful of folks on either side of the aisle. Sarah Palin was a breath of fresh air but ran with McCain who I cannot support. A 30+ year old war record and a history of spending too much time on Teddy Kennedy’s lap does not a President make. Period.
At this point Newt disgusts me. McCain pandered too much to “Moderates” and as I was recalled to Active Duty because the DOD Professionals are circling the wagons to attempt to do more with less and Our Pretender in Chief took Sen. John “4 month tour in RVN” Kerry on as an advisor. The Christmas in Cambodia Dude that threw his unearned medals away. Oh and that clown Axlerod is furnishing “sound wisdom” to our Sophomoric CIC. What a winning combination!
Iraq is heating up, AF/PAK is on fire and Obama plays golf more in his 10 Months than GWB did in 8 years. “Doing More With Less” is my mandate. Just my opinion and best Professional Judgment stated here. Realities are pretty grim both on the Foreign Policy and Domestic Policy fronts.
It is time for America to realize that they chose poorly and punish those that serve them poorly and Vote the rascals out. Newt is the last guy I’d listen to right now. With the lack of a Wartime President, a Congress that is throwing Your Tax Dollars down a sinkhole, Commanders and Troops waiting for direction on the other side of the World and Allies that feel betrayed, what is not to like?
Newt is a Republican for godsake!! He’s a republican party guy!! What sort of asshole would he be if he abandoned the candidate endorsed by the party in a special election?? I doubt he really wants skoggababbanozza to win, but simple decency precludes him from publicly taking a dump on the local republican leadership.
Skoggabwaazabub would never have gotten the nomination had there been a primary.
It is what it is.
And Newt remains what he is, sadly so.
Newt Gingrich was never all that conservative. He’s a republican ideologue, not a conservative one. That’s not a dig. I like the guy, but he’s on my left. Nevertheless, he’s a good guy who wants the best for his country. He’s not some dirty little communist dungstain like Brakabama.
ccoffer:
Then he should have just STFU and stayed out of it altogether. His “associations”, like those of the Zero in chief distress me.
Now….he’s just a different kind of asshole.
NO MORE RINOS!
NO MORE RINOS!
NO MORE RINOS!
Newt is a Republican, yes, and man Republicans are about to get a loud wake up call.
If Newt would have seized the initiative and broke with the Country Club Ideologues, he might have ridden a wave right into the White House. Sorry Newt, you back a Rino and you become a Rino. We have way too much invested to waste time with imitations. There is a movement that is about to explode, a rebirth of Constitutional freedoms is going to happen, we the little people are making it happen; the GOP of the Eastern Seaboard Country Clubs contributed nothing, they actually have inhibited the movement. To all the Newts and Rinos, we don’t really need you, get on board or get left ashore. Conservatives are ready to set sail and haul ass.
Long Live the Republic. Down with tyrants.
ccoffer: I am a Conservative, not a Republican. There lies all the difference Bud.
Believe Me, there is a Difference and not a subtle one at that.
Anyone to the Left of Me does not hold America’s best interests at heart or deserve my support. No offense intended but Newt clearly does not measure up anymore. “He could have been a contender…” Now he is just a media whore peddling His Books. No Thanks.
The Republic is at risk and Newt peddles his memoirs and kisses the hands that are the Threat. There is a new Party, neither Democrat or Republican that is awakening and forming ranks. Like the Founders did and they will be a force to be reckoned with. They have too much to lose but everything to gain in restoring America. I stand with Them Politically and they may have been Republicans or Democrats at some point but are Patriots now.
Newt Gingrich a RINO?
Put down the bong, dude. He sees the Republican party as the only viable vehicle through which domestic Marxism can be stamped out. I happen to feel the same way. For him to betray the party elders who decided to put Skobabazooka in this special election race would be incredibly shitty on his part.
Disagree with the guy all day long, but at least be honest enough to concede that he is a man of integrity.
“ccoffer: I am a Conservative, not a Republican. There lies all the difference Bud.”
So you would do your part to see a Stalinist democrat elected if the republican’s ideology didn’t match yours? Out of spite?
The ethic of masturbatory voting is something that truly sickens me. Voting isn’t something you are supposed do for the sake of satisfying your conscience. Its something you owe your country.
The better is always better than the worse.
Ccoffer, put down the crack pipe.
He cozied up with pelosi, believes in global warming, chummed around with sharpton, now he is saying we need to move further to the left.
Yet you think he’s hasn’t become a RINO? Sorry, but when you sell out your country on CORE ISSUES you are not a Conservative or a person that cares about America.
Oh and Ccoffer, many of us here held our noses and voted for mclame, so get off your high horse…or shove it where your head currently resides.
I’m starting to question whether you aren’t some troll pretending to be a rep. You seem very ignorant of our values or that we voted against obama in large numbers. Masturbatory? Yes, your posts have that quality.
“Oh and Ccoffer, many of us here held our noses and voted for mclame, so get off your high horse…or shove it where your head currently resides.”
Who is us? I voted for McCain because he was the best candidate in the race. Was he my dream candidate? No, but I live in the real world. Its a two party system, son. One or the other is gonna win. A man who cares about his country votes the way you did. You voted for the better of the two.
“I’m starting to question whether you aren’t some troll pretending to be a rep.”
I don’t “pretend” to be anything, squirt. If you are literate in the functional sense of the word, I would encourage you to read what I have already written…again..slower this time.
If the republican party isn’t the solution, just what the hell is? The .1% green party? The .2% Libertarian Party?
Get real!!
I know some of you proud folk are going to say that the only way to win back the country is to abandon party loyalty cuz they are all the same. “An aggressive communist is the same as an imperfect republican.”
Blind, proud, self important fools. The future is in your hands, You have the power to destroy this republic. I’m sure its comfy with your head all warm and cozy buried up your ass. Meanwhile the world turns.
The blood will be on your hands. Your indifference is Satan’s produce.
So…….all one has to do is put an (R) beside their name and you’re cool with that? Ideology, morals, fiscal responsibility and all the things that makes one a CONSERVATIVE take a back seat to the party? That’s how we got here in the first place.
Seek professional help.
Cool with that? It has dick shit to do with me being “cool with that”. It has to do with the alternative. I vote for the better because I vote for my Nation’s sake not my own.
I don’t jerk off in the voting booth. I serve my country in the voting booth. Its done for my country, not for my satisfaction.
Grow up.
So the “R” is ALWAYS the better then?
Thanks for proving me right troll. I also see you didn’t address one point about newt, either.
You come here and tell us how we need to think and vote, and how we don’t meet with your approval. To that I say FU. The blind self important one is you. You were the one who immediately started talking down to us. That sure tells me how much you love yourself-narcissistic. The fact you also claim to live in the real world is your typical leftist talking point. You are definitely no Rep or Conservative. Unsurprisingly you don’t have a clue and have proven that beyond all doubt.
If your head goes any further up your butt you’ll disappear.
Now STFU phony.
Better than the scumbag democrat marxist piece of shit?
Yes. Always.
Here is how it works, my brave little anonymous friend. The scum rise to the top in the democrat party. (argue against. please)
Integrity is a requirement in one party and an impediment in the other…and there are only two.
There is a pretense of decency among the members of one party, yet no such expectation of them who populate the other party.
How do you get the pale horse to lie on its back before you ride it; my brave, smart little friend?
“You were the one who immediately started talking down to us.”
Who the hell is “us”, and why am I left out? Ive been reading and commenting here for quite some time.
If I’m wrong, prove me wrong. Embarrass me in front of the “us”.
I detest stupidity. I cant help it. I want to cure it.
First and only warning ccoffer…clean up your comments. Same with you Hard Right, you weren’t as crass as ccoffer but we all know what FU means.
“You come here and tell us how we need to think and vote,”
No, you scumbag, piece of shit liar; I come here and tell how I vote and think. The bucktoothed chipmunk Brakabama is president because of people like you. Its your fault. Go ahead and blame me, but you know the truth.
The truth is lonely. It has few friends these days.
“you scumbag, piece of shit liar”……You lose…….Ad Hominem forfeiture.
You kiss your mom with that mouth?
For shame.
coffer, No Bong Here Punko.
Call Me names and frolick. Angry Punks do not impress or scare me.
If the Truth bit your Ass tomorrow would You know it?
Headed for Kabul in 18 hours.
ccoffer, you are pretty angry, not rational and sad. Seek professional help and stop posting here.
You embarrass Yourself.
For our little pottymouth trollboy……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnjbBSEvFdw
OT, good luck. You are a hell of a man! I will be thinking of you. Your ranch life in WY sounded really nice. I hope you are back soon. I would be writing about fishing, hunting, packing, and horses if there were more like you in Washington.
God speed. You can trust in us to keep the home fires burning.
Old Trooper, May God bless and keep you safe. Thank you for your service. You will be on our minds and in our prayers each day. Stay in touch when you can.
RAPH
Snowe has got an “R” next to her name. (voted for Reid’s Health Care Bill)
McCain has an “R” too. (Juan McCain)
So does Dole (lost in space….it’s my turn)
And so does Lindsy “Gramnesty”
And so does Bush 41 (Read my lips)
And so with Bush 43 (TARP)
and, of course, so does Lincoln Chaffe (supported Obama in 08)
My God, look at his bio…HE WAS A REPUBLICAN???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Chafee
Newt has been hanging around the DC cocktail circuit wayyyyy too long…he’s infected now
There comes a time when you just have to say “wait a minute” when the party leadership makes multiple bad calls then tells the rank-and-file to sit down, shut up, give money and vote for the “R” reguardless of what’s offered (I’ve encountered this a few years ago at a state function and it left a bad taste in my mouth). Sometimes, the GOP membership needs to tell the leadership to take a hike and remind them that the “big tent” theory is not a blank check to screw basic principles or go “liberal lite”.
After the elections of 06, 08, tea parties, and 9/12 DC event, the GOP should had gotten the message….it appears not…..and I’m getting more and more angrier. The GOP leaders have lost their way or simply don’t care, thinking that the membership has no place to go…..BIG MISTAKE.
The ONLY reason I voted for McCain in 2008 was because of Palin (a true conservative), and what did the GOP leadership, McCain staffers & certain “conservative” bloggers do? They threw her under the bus by spreading false rumors, not coming to her defense during the bogus ethics complaints then fed her to the wolves to fend for herself.
In the end, Palin had to resign her governor’s chair because she was spending too much time and money defending herself from constant bogus ethics complaints (600k legal debt). She couldn’t be the governor anymore. She was once a champion and public servant of Alaskan citizens, but once she became a national figure (and a future GOP star), the paradigm shifted and character assasination became the norm.
And while she was going through this hell, WHERE WAS THE GOP LEADERSHIP???? NOWHERE!!!! Only her fan base was there to help with a legal defense fund and political pact. Meanwhile, the GOP leadership went off to their social events and forgot her. Romney gets a wink…Huckabee gets a pat on the back…but Sarah gets the boot.
Then came the backbiting at the RNCC dinner, the backstabbing by Senator Chamblis, Vanity Fair hitpiece, and McCain’s chief election staffer making nasty cheapshots. And the RINO leadership just stood there and gawked (and probably chucked in the background).
Rubio…don’t get me started there. GOP leadership supports “tan in a can” man.
You see folks. NY23 is not so much a “third party disease” as more of a symptom of a GOP leadership problem. The era of “it’s my turn” needs to end.
@Curt: I second Curt’s warning. CCoffer has some valid points to make but they get lost if the name calling gets out of hand (and I’m one who enjoys a bit of name calling from time to time).
As far as Newt being a RINO, I disagree. Yeah, that photo-op with Pelosi was a mistake but there is no ignoring Newt’s many conservative bonafides.
Now, can’t we all just get along? Or does Curt have to come back in and go Rodney King on you guys?
P.S. With all the heated discussion I almost forgot: New poll by the Daily Kos no less shows Hoffman down by ONE POINT. Scuzzafoza, or whatever her name is, is collapsing! And that’s good news! Remember, when the Dems thought they would win this race they declared it a valid referendum on Obama. There’s a strong possiblity they will lose.
Won’t that be fun?
The post has been updated with a new endorsement
Mike:
With all due respect I disagree. Newt was one of my favorites, a very intelligent man and Constitutional scholar to add to his “bonafides”. However, as I stated in a previous post, his latest “associations” with the left bother me. Now with his backing of Scuzzywhatever, I believe he has taken sharp aim at his own foot and squeezed the trigger.
Just my opinion but he will have to take a sharp turn back to the right before I could hitch my horse to his wagon.
Mike, I’ve yet to see a valid point from him. All I see is arrogance, condescension, and him attacking us for not thinking or voting the way he thinks we should. Yes, how dare we try to get Conservatives in at the ground level so we don’t have to choose between bad and worse later on.
He clearly does not understand that the new movement puts COUNTRY first and not party. Who cares about the corrupt leaders? When they do back room deals like the one used to pick Scozzy, they prove they are unfit to lead and undeserving of loyalty. Doing something for the good of the party over the good of the country is something dems do.
As for newt, he WAS a Conservative. He has clearly devolved into something else since. A moderate RINO perhaps, but still a RINO. He DEFINITELY isn’t a man of integrity. His attacks on those who disagree are proof enough of that.
Sorry Curt. I let the bong comments directed at OT and the masturbatory comment set me off. I’ll try to be thicker skinned and cleaner in the future.
Old Trooper, Godspeed.
@Curt: Wow! Pataki’s endorsement comes at a crucial time. Looks like Pataki may be interested in running for President again in 2012. I met him when he was thinking about it last time around. Of course H.R. and Pale Horse probably think he’s a RINO too! They might be right. But he endorsed Hoffman so that must make him OK.
@Hard Right:
@Rides A Pale Horse:
It’s too easy to say TO HELL WITH NEWT on the basis of one or two disagreements. If we did that with every Republican we’d never get any of them elected.
There is NO SUCH THING as a perfect conservative candidate. I know, I have worked for a number of them.
I’m not going to defend Newt’s decision here. But I also don’t think he is a RINO. Remember, I have Lindsey Graham to compare Newt with.
Also, House GOP Leader John Boehner endorsed Scuzzowhatever and he’s no RINO.
Don’t let perfect become the enemy of good!
Jesus Christ, people….
I agree that Newt is making a mistake here. Hoffman, who is the more conservative candidate, has a clear chance of winning. He should be supported; but this is a rare example where voting for the candidate who doesn’t carry the “R” next to the name, actually makes sense.
I know passions run high, but can we not disagree without throwing everyone under the bus who is not a conservative purist? Throwing around the RINO label indiscriminately at whoever doesn’t agree with us 100% of the time on every issue is just political suicide.
We should be able to have disagreements and debates within our own movement without angrily lashing out at each other.
WS:
While I agree that “Throwing around the RINO label indiscriminately at whoever doesn’t agree with us 100% of the time on every issue is just political suicide.” I don’t think that in this case it is indiscriminate.
Newt at one time was (and still could be) one of my favorite conservatives. The problem I have with this whole issue is that for so long we have been subjected to politicians that tell us one thing and do another. It seems that Newt has taken that path with his associations with Pelosi, Sharpton et al and now his endorsement of a liberal “republican” and expects us to accept it. Personally, I cannot.
That there’s no such thing as the “perfect conservative” I would agree but to profess to be conservative and turn around and act like a liberal, this just leaves me cold. We’ve been down that road before.
Personally I guess that it all depends on how Newt handles this issue. If he continues to “double down” on his position as Philip Klein at The American Spectator suggests, then it not only “makes him look sillier”,
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/10/27/newt-blasts-conservatives-purg
in my opinion it calls into question his integrity.
Continuing to defend a position that is clearly in opposition to the majority is something we’re dealing with with the current administration. We really don’t need it in our own party.
Mike, who says we are demanding the perfect candidate? I would be ok with a moderate, but we don’t have a moderate here. We have a radical leftist pretending to be a moderate. Newt knows that too, but he’s decided to to die on that hill.
One or two disagreements? Newt cavorted with pelosi and has bought into the global warming BS. Snuggling with Sharpton. Backing a leftist. Telling lies about her record and the people who oppose her. Saying we need to move left. That may not be a lot of disagreements, but they are significant.
Someone will probably quote the 80%-20% Reagan quote, but I have a response to that. If the 20% against is on absolute critical issues, while the 80% with is on much less important ones, then yes they are the enemy.
I was luke warm on Newt before this happened. Him supporting dede might have been enough to turn me off on him, but his blatant dishonesty has turned me against him outright.
Like I said, newt WAS a Conservative. Now, he seems to be just another self serving, mealy mouthed political hack. At best he’s a moderate RINO. (Olympia and spector are/were extreme RINOs.)
Just to be clear I do agree there will never be a perfect candidate and pursuing that will be self destructive. With that said, are you all telling me we should tolerate such poor leadership? That we should just shut up and do nothing in these situations? This is exactly what has been meant by getting involved at the grass roots level. Picking a candidate that best represents what we stand for. I’m sorry, but this is not just a minor disagreement or just a mistake on newt’s part. It’s disgusting and worse, calculated. His past work doesn’t earn him a pass on his more current actions.
I dunno, Word. I don’t consider Dem-lite as part of my own “movement”. You might as well ask me if I want to slash my wrists for a quick death (overt socialism), or would I like multiple smaller cuts elsewhere for a slow death (Dem-lites). Neither is an acceptable alternative. We got to this point in time with this monsterous nanny government and morphed view of Constitutional rights strictly for that death-by-a-thousand-cuts mentality.
Now is the time for it to reverse, and I will no longer compromise my principles. This behemoth called government is out of control. And unfortunately those who have the power to reign it in (Congress) are those of *both* parties who thrive on it’s increased size, power and expense. Today we can see their visions of America are completely disassociated with those of the Founders and Framers. Just when do you say “enough!”?
I don’t care if the GOP (in it’s current form) survives. It will either revert to it’s conservative roots, or slowly be abandoned. Revitalize it’s core principles of fiscal responsibility and minimum government, or simply die from obsolescence. It is not the first time in this nation’s history where a party has been replaced by another. Meaning that ccoffer has a somewhat limited vision if he/she believes the demise of the GOP results in a one party system.
All of those abandoning the Republican Titanic aren’t going to race to the Green Party or Libertarians. As Old Trooper says those that are conservative vote principle, not party, and that group is starting to grow… a phenom for which we can genuinely thank the current POTUS. If a label is required to accomodate for the expensive, bloated and corrupt national fooferah we call national elections, perhaps the Conservative Party will overtake the GOP as one of the big two. If not, there will be a helluva lot of “independents” – people who don’t require a label – in the nation that candidates will vie for during campaigns.
Notice how all of these ‘courageous ‘ Rs are now taking the leap after Sarah Palin showed them how to have some stones and buck the entrenched leadership?
@Hard Right: Just to be clear: At NO TIME have I suggested we should support Sucazawhatever. Backing Hoffman is the right thing to do as it sends a message. And people should be actively trying to send that message to every party organization across the country. I assume you are doing just that in your county and state?
Still, I don’t agree that Newt is a RINO. The examples you cite are mild compared to what I have had to put up with here in SC with Lindsey Graham.
@MataHarley said: “I don’t care if the GOP (in it’s current form) survives. “ and later you talk about the GOP being “slowly be abandoned. “ I hope you aren’t suggesting we throw the baby out with the bath water.
Let’s be serious for a moment. There is NO VIABLE CONSERVATIVE ALTERNATIVE TO THE GOP. There isn’t one today and there won;’t be one tomorrow or next year or even ten years from now. Any thought that there will be is dangerously naive and only plays into the hands of Democrats.
The recent Gallup poll showing that 40% of the country identifies as conservative should be heartening, but also a reminder that 40% doesn’t win elections. Conservatives cannot win with just conservative votes.
Now, before someone starts muttering RINO at me in the background, do I need to trot out my conservative war record again? I’ve not only talked the talk, I’ve fought the fight and even won elections from time to time.
To anyone who complains about the current state of RINOism in the GOP, I would say GET INVOLVED or STFU.
So because newt isn’t as big a turncoat as graham he’s ok? You’re such a RINO (Yes I’m kidding).
Trooper: I will pray for you and for your safe return home. Take a lot of warm socks..it is going to be cold at night..a lot like Montana but with ugly coyotes(cowards) everywhere.
I salute you!
As a voter from the 23rd district, I am happy Doug Hoffman is in the race. Newt’s position that the local Republican Leaders picked the candidate is true. The problem is the local Republican leadership is out of touch with the local voter, they hand picked the GOP candidate and expect us to vote for the candidate they want. Doesn’t this race really show how far out of touch with the people they truly are? With Hoffman overtaking Scozzafava in the polls shouldn’t Newt be backing the local GOP and Conservative Base and not the Local GOP Leadership? The so called leadership is the problem here, just as it is in Washington.
Newt’s statement about the NRA endorsement is also correct, but that is only based on her second amendment voting record while serving in the NY Assembly. Neither Hoffman nor Owens have a voting record as they have not held any office prior to this race so they won’t get an endorsement. I know first hand that most if not all sporting issues Scozzafava supports the 2nd amendment. That alone does not make her a Conservative Republican. This is an important issue to me and one of my top ones, but my problem with her record is her ties to the ACORN backed Working Family’s party, her endorsement by the New York United Teachers Union and other liberal associations in the past. Furthering these agendas does nothing to support the second amendment and will continue to lead to the attacks on it.
I have voted far too often for the anointed candidate and overlook their shortcomings while ignoring the candidates of principle that were overlooked and scoffed at by the party leadership and believe that many others do the same. I have bought into the argument that a vote for the candidate I believe in is a vote for candidate I definitely do not want in office too many times in the past. I have even promoted this argument to others. But not anymore. There is a chance for something good to happen and a lesson to be learned in this race. The government we have is our own fault, for we do not vote for our convictions, we follow the “Party Line” as we are told or a Democrat will win. We call people sheeple for electing Democrat’s to keep their entitlements and for the decline of America’s values. By voting for a Republican rather than values and not voting for the candidate we believe supports our values, but because we are told to, aren’t we also sheeple? Ross Perot took 19% of the vote in 92 in spite of this mindset. I voted for Bush because a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton. It didn’t matter, Clinton won anyway. I wonder what the outcome would have been if I and others like me voted our values rather than the party’s wishes. Would anyone have ever heard of Monica Lewinski? Would we have ever heard of Obama? Even when we vote for a candidate because we are supposed to the person we elected usually continues to compromise our values, so we have no one to blame but ourselves as our core values continue to slide.
Doug Hoffman will win this race because he is the right person for the district. He will do this in spite of the Local GOP Party Leadership because they failed to represent the people of the district.
He will win because his values and moral standards reflect the majority of the voters in the district.
We as the voters of the 23rd need to review our Local GOP Leadership and find a few Doug Hoffman’s to take these leadership rolls or we will be back in the position all too soon.
@Hard Right asked: “So because newt isn’t as big a turncoat as graham he’s ok? “
Yes… I would prefer both follow the lead of my other Senator Jim DeMint, but I’d rather have Newt
IN the party than out of it.
@Rick from the 23rd brings up this point: “Ross Perot took 19% of the vote in 92 in spite of this mindset. I voted for Bush because a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton. It didn’t matter, Clinton won anyway.”
Clinton never would have won if Ross Perot had not been in the race. And how many states did Perot win? And he got 8.4% of the vote in 1996 assuring Clinton’s re-election. You bemoan the Monica Lewinsky scandal, but aren’t targeting the blame where it belongs.
Yes, Give me George H.W. Bush over Bill Clinton anyday. Give me George W. Bush over Al Gore anyday. Neither Bush was as conservative as Reagan and as I recall when I was working for Reagan some people thought he had strayed away from conservative purity too.
Again, I am glad Hoffman is running. But if that means we have third party candidates in EVERY congressional district then we will never get rid of Nancy Pelosi. Hoffman is sending a message to the GOP leadership at every level.
But what happens in the future will depend just as much on what people at the local level do. Our pal Skye has shown that if you choose to get involved in your local party you’ll find they generally welcome your assistance. And if you work hard enough and get enough of your likeminded fellow citizens to join you then you will be able to nominate and ELECT the kind of candidates which you feel best reflect your values.
On the other hand, if you sit on the sidelines and complain that because there are some folks in the GOP who disagree with you that you won’t support good candidates in the party then you aren’t part of the solution, but part of the problem.
Every conservative should have learned that lesson in 2006.
The bottom line: A third party is a proven loser. A revitalized Republican Party wins elections. Which one do you want to be a part of?
The next test for the GOP is going to be Florida. The Democrats are watching very closely the developments bewteen Rubio and Christ. If Christ wins, he will beat Meek by 19 points and if Rubio(I support him) wins, he will beat Meek by 13 points. Right now our objective is to win in every election with the right candidate. Some districs are more liberal than others and we need to be astut. Perhaps that was the strategy that Newt had in mind and it backfired. Yes, I agree that Ross Perot spoiled Bush reelection but Bush also did that to himself for not been able to come back and fight Perot and get support from the religious groups(W made sure to get them on board).
We need to support and unite for our Republican and conservative candidates to defeat Marxist liberals!. Support Chris Christie in Jersey. ACORN people are all over the state. The same thing with Hoffman, Owens is calling every ACORN member to ‘vote’. Sadly, at the end of the day, the corrupt liberal marxists democrats win over our political candidates(vote early and often) because they have created ACORN, and we don’t.
Hoffman isn’t a third party candidate. Let’s be clear about that. Dede is a 3rd party candidate if anything.
Also, please stop with the straw men. No one is talking about introducing a 3rd candidate (not party) in all races.
We ARE talking about taking the party back over and getting back to core principals. This is but one way to do it. It’s not the only way or the best way, just one way. The elites shut out the rank and file on this decision and this is the result. In this case, this is likely the best answer. I don’t want this in every race and I don’t think most sane people do. I voted against Clinton and Perot with my vote and haven’t forgotten what that loon did to help screw America.
Take the GOP over, not out with the trash.
Mike, You miss my point.
How many people didn’t vote for Perot because they were drank the party Kool aid and didn’t vote their convictions. And I am not just referring to Republicans. Your claim that Ross Perot kept Dole from the Presidency and gave Clinton the win is ludicrous. Not everyone that voted for Perot was a Republican. Perot also drew Democrats. And if the GOP would run a true Conservative Republican none of the Democrats would stand a chance.
We are being misled by the Party Leadership because they don’t want someone really cleaning house. It would cost them their congressional pay for life retirement’s and health care to name a few.
I don’t want to see Pelosi or Reid in any power after the 2010 election nor do I want Obama to have a chance in 2012. I don’t advocate for 3rd party candidates in every race either.
You say “A third party is a proven loser. A revitalized Republican Party wins elections. Which one do you want to be a part of?”
If the Republican Party wishes to revitalize itself it is more than welcome and I may join them, but if they continue down the path they have since Regan left office they will be the next 3rd Party. I think the choice is theirs not mine.
And by the way, Perot didn’t steal the election from the GOP, the GOP handed it to Clinton as they handed it to Obama, with their choice of candidates. You suggest all those that voted for Perot would have voted for Dole. Get real! Would I have preferred Bush to Clinton, Dole to Clinton, or McCain to Obama of course. But if the GOP would pick a candidate the people can believe in to, that as you put it, revitalized the party, Clinton would not have won and neither would Obama. The only thing we have to be thankful for is that the Dems picked Gore and Kerry not someone better in 2000 and 2008.
You say Hoffman is sending a message to the party leadership at every level. Gee they missed the messages sent by the Tea Party’s and the health care town hall meetings then. That shows how far they are out of touch with the people. People are sick of not just what is going on today but what has been going on for years. We want our county back. And it’s not that we want it back from the Democrats, we want it back from the misguided GOP also. They are only waking up because they are scared for their own skins in 2010. Nothing strikes fear or awakens a politician more than the threat of being removed from office by their voters, especially those in the party they supposedly represent. Revolution is coming and they are seeing it, feeling it and smelling it.
I have not left the GOP they have left me! Keep drinking the Kool aid and voting for the Party’s choice even if goes against you values and beliefs and you will get what the Party hands you. Shucks they know what is better for you than you do anyway. I will no longer be a sheeple.
The train is rolling, you and the GOP Leadership can either get on board and take the ride or not. But I suggest if you choose to stay in the station don’t stand on the tracks.
@MataHarley:
So there can be no debate within conservative circles? Just ideological purity? Or are you seizing upon my last sentence and misconstruing the context of what I’m talking about to fit your beef? Which seems to be about taking issue with leaders within the conservative movement who aren’t truly aligned and loyal to conservative principles and ideology.
My point was, that people like ccoffer and others should be able to carry on a debate without ostracizing and being ostracized. He could be further to the right than any of you, for all we know.
The only way to not “compromise principles” is to elect your political soulmates in every election. And given that you’re unlikely to ever agree with a candidate on 100% of the issues based upon principle, if you aren’t flexible, you’re going to find yourself sitting on your hands in every election. But hey! At least all-or-nothing conservatives can claim to have not sold theirs souls and compromised principles and core values!
Compromise is how you get ahead. Reagan was brilliant at it. That’s because compromise isn’t the same thing as appeasement, which would be giving in without getting anything of value back in return.
Yes, conservative core principles matter. But so does electability.
Agreed.
But it’s become quite fashionable to be on a RINO witchhunt these days because we’re in such a fit and furry over the ’06 and ’08 election losses.
There were a number of things at play for those losses; not just the straying away from conservative principles of smaller government and fiscal responsibility- a problem that has been going on for generations. In ’08, Democrats had their uber-candidate that could appeal to those valued independents and moderates. Obama sold himself to the American public who weren’t paying close attention, as a moderate. McCain did not lose because he lost the conservative vote (numbers of those who voted for Bush in ’04 identifying as conservative are comparably the same for McCain in ’08). McCain failed to win the hearts and minds of center-left/center-right moderate independents who didn’t hate him for who he is; they simply were charmed and romanticized by the media-hyped idea of a glass-ceiling breaking presidency of Obama, more than they loved the fossilized McCain.
Establishment REPUBLICANS, with the exception of the few, like Newt, appear to be on board with Hoffman, who will caucus with the GOP and will seek re-election in 2010 as a Republican.
The Republican Party is not filled with conservative purists; but I think the RINO witchhunting has gotten carried away. Scozzafava? CINO. Newt? Neither CINO nor RINO.
Every single Republican in both houses of Congress voted against President Obama’s budget.
Every single Republican except the two Senators from Maine voted against the stimulus package.
Every Republican in the House of Representatives opposes Obamacare.
Yet we want to say there’s no difference between the two parties? There’s a profound difference between Democrats and Republicans; even more so the further left the one goes, and the further right, the other. I think the nation, as a whole, is more center-left and center-right than the polar extremes. And it’s the polar extremes who find fault with the wishy-washy centrists.