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FedUp
14 years ago
God Bless the greatest country in the world! Let us remember those who struggled to make the colonies the United States of America and to set in place the formula to ensure her greatness – the Constitution.
Let us remember, wake up and take our country back to the ideals under which she was established!!!
Let us also remember and pray for all our service men and women – those who have died, those who are recovering from injuries suffered in their service, those who continue to serve in foreign lands and war zones, and those who serve here at home.
We the People ……
– must care enough to participate in governing this country.
– must reverse the momentum of the statist thugs in charge.
– throw our the incumbents and return government to the people, not lobbyists.
AWAKEN
One Man awake,
Awakens another.
The second awakens
His next-door brother.
The three awake can rouse a town
By turning
The whole place
Upside down.
The many awake
Can make such a fuss
It finally awakens
The rest of us.
One man up,
With dawn in his eyes,
Surely then,
Multiplies.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men area created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. —
Let no man take away what was given by god. Thanks for what you do.
Toothfairy
14 years ago
God Bless the USA and all those who support, defend and protect her!
nelly
14 years ago
You all will notice that Barry Soetoro, our fearless Leader, isn’t even in the country for his very first Fourth of July as “President.” I can’t seem to remember any President in my lifetime being out of the USA on Independence Day. . .
FedUp
14 years ago
Hey Nelly! Who needs him and his sneering ways and his contempt for the American people. I just think it shows that he really doesn’t think of himself as a patriotic American. Let him and his missus go “charm” the Russians.
When will Barry ever get a clue? At least we won’t have to have BO’s face in front of us ruining OUR celebrations!
Yes, Rockybutte, because we both know slavery was uniquely American, that around 364 thousand Americans didn’t give their lives to help end the practice, that America dragged its ass when it came to abolishing it, was the last nation on earth to free slaves, did nothing to pressure other governments to end the practice, did nothing to police the open seas with the British to fight the slave trade. And our government intentionally engaged in a systematic policy of genocide against peaceful, nonviolent noble savages who never harmed the environment or engaged in wars and barbaric practices until the arrival of the white man.
Happy Independence Day to you, rockybutte! Thanks for expressing your love of country, today.
God bless Howard Zinn and Ward Churchill for your expressions of patriotism!
nelly
You all will notice that Barry Soetoro, our fearless Leader, isn’t even in the country for his very first Fourth of July as “President.” I can’t seem to remember any President in my lifetime being out of the USA on Independence Day. . .
FedUp
Hey Nelly! Who needs him and his sneering ways and his contempt for the American people. I just think it shows that he really doesn’t think of himself as a patriotic American. Let him and his missus go “charm” the Russians.
When will Barry ever get a clue? At least we won’t have to have BO’s face in front of us ruining OUR celebrations!
Nelly, and FedUp, you are both full of crap. President Obama was entertaining members of the armed forces at the White House for the 4th. Retract your bs complaining. Maybe “you” should do something for the troops this 4th instead of complain. A- wipes.
Aqua
14 years ago
@Sarge Charlie Just continuing what you started.
…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…
Although it’s a shame you guys had to break away – you’ve done exceptionally well over the last 233 years.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
…is a beautifully written and inspiring sentence. Happy Birthday!
ghost guru
14 years ago
THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION
Compiled by Jim Walker
“Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.”
-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)
In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.
Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.
Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word “God” embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson’s words engraved: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” When they see the word “God” many Christians see this as “proof” of his Christianity without thinking that “God” can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson’s God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush’s warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:
“The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . .”
Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.
If anything can clear of the misconceptions of Jeffersonian history, it can come best from the author himself. Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.
OK, so who are these “right wing Christians” that paint Jefferson as one of their own? Since this was about Jefferson, let’s limit the discussion to just him.
Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.
Those quotes are just cherry-picked to push an agenda. Jefferson did indeed have a “complex view of religion”, and the author tries to simplify it to conform to a secularist’s nationview.
It is not the religious right who are trying to remake America; the revisionists are the militant secularists and atheist extremists, armed with ACLU lawyers, who have misrepresented and obscured the Framers and their original intent. It’s those of us who believe in the Judeo-Christian traditions and heritage that has shaped this country who wish to restore what’s been under assault for the last 60-70 years.
As far as Jefferson, he was an unconventional religious thinker who believed that there was a role for faith to play in a moral society. The Framers believed in a secular federal government and not an established church; but this didn’t mean they felt religious expression should be divorced from the public square or that government should be “untainted” by religion. Most of the evidence points to our early forebears seeking harmony between government and the free expression and exercise of religion.
From the very beginning of our nation’s history, it is ripe with the free-mixing of government and religion. Somehow, since the 1947 Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing decision, the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise of Religion Clause have been set in conflict. And the ruling was based upon a private letter written by Jefferson and misrepresented (taken out of context) by the Supreme Court (Jefferson wasn’t even in country during the Constitutional Convention, and not involved in the legislative drafting of the First Amendment).
For someone who is touted as desiring a “separation of Church and State” (look to the context of the metaphor in the Danbury letter), Jefferson
-Personally attended and authorized weekly Christian services in the Capitol building itself.
-In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer.
-In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of “Public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.”
-On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered “A National Prayer for Peace,”
-As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services.
Michael Medved talks about these faith-based initiatives:
That doesn’t sound like someone who believes in the separation of Church and State, does it? Regardless of whether a Christian God or your generic religious god. Bottomline is, religious expression was part of life in serving public office. And no one at the time of the Founding Fathers and the subsequent 160 years thought there was anything alarmist about it. Until the ACLU.
Now you can’t even have a commercialized Christmas tree in public school without some intolerant liberal atheist huffing and puffing indignation and offense and non-inclusiveness.
In contrast, far from being an intolerant Christian extremist, what President Bush was is exactly how the majority of the Founders probably would have approved of: embracing and welcoming of people of all faiths and religions. He hosted the first Ramadan dinner in the White House, prayed with Muslim Imams and stressed that Islam was a religion of peace, lit Menorrahs in the White House, etc.
Atheism itself is a belief system. Why should it enjoy special privilege, endorsed by government?
@ Word
Great post, but I doubt he’ll be back. Funny how people from the left like to talk about the lives of the founders, especially if they can throw something like religion into the mix. The one point you brought up about a secular federal government will fly right over his or any other lefty’s head.
I had a response all typed up last night but didn’t get a chance to post it due to some really, really nasty weather here. I decided that it would be best to shut down the computer.
The Founding Fathers left a multitude of their thoughts, feelings, and beliefs for the perusal of those of us who are interested enough to find out what they really thought, felt, and believed.
Unfortunately, the accuracy of history is altered by historians, and others, who have the desire to put forth or serve a specific agenda.
There are those, like ghost guru, who put forth falsehoods, either through an innocent lack of knowledge or a malicious desire to mislead those who don’t know any better.
Fortunately, here at FA, lack of knowledge and the perpetuation of myth is called out quickly, loudly, and regularly.
I, like Aqua, don’t know if ghost will reappear or not.
If he has a genuine desire for the truth, this is certainly the place for him to hang out.
God Bless the greatest country in the world! Let us remember those who struggled to make the colonies the United States of America and to set in place the formula to ensure her greatness – the Constitution.
Let us remember, wake up and take our country back to the ideals under which she was established!!!
Let us also remember and pray for all our service men and women – those who have died, those who are recovering from injuries suffered in their service, those who continue to serve in foreign lands and war zones, and those who serve here at home.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Happy fourth of July every one.
We the People ……
– must care enough to participate in governing this country.
– must reverse the momentum of the statist thugs in charge.
– throw our the incumbents and return government to the people, not lobbyists.
AWAKEN
One Man awake,
Awakens another.
The second awakens
His next-door brother.
The three awake can rouse a town
By turning
The whole place
Upside down.
The many awake
Can make such a fuss
It finally awakens
The rest of us.
One man up,
With dawn in his eyes,
Surely then,
Multiplies.
— Lawrence Tribble
late 1700s
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men area created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. —
Let no man take away what was given by god. Thanks for what you do.
God Bless the USA and all those who support, defend and protect her!
You all will notice that Barry Soetoro, our fearless Leader, isn’t even in the country for his very first Fourth of July as “President.” I can’t seem to remember any President in my lifetime being out of the USA on Independence Day. . .
Hey Nelly! Who needs him and his sneering ways and his contempt for the American people. I just think it shows that he really doesn’t think of himself as a patriotic American. Let him and his missus go “charm” the Russians.
When will Barry ever get a clue? At least we won’t have to have BO’s face in front of us ruining OUR celebrations!
Yes, Rockybutte, because we both know slavery was uniquely American, that around 364 thousand Americans didn’t give their lives to help end the practice, that America dragged its ass when it came to abolishing it, was the last nation on earth to free slaves, did nothing to pressure other governments to end the practice, did nothing to police the open seas with the British to fight the slave trade. And our government intentionally engaged in a systematic policy of genocide against peaceful, nonviolent noble savages who never harmed the environment or engaged in wars and barbaric practices until the arrival of the white man.
Happy Independence Day to you, rockybutte! Thanks for expressing your love of country, today.
God bless Howard Zinn and Ward Churchill for your expressions of patriotism!
Nelly, and FedUp, you are both full of crap. President Obama was entertaining members of the armed forces at the White House for the 4th. Retract your bs complaining. Maybe “you” should do something for the troops this 4th instead of complain. A- wipes.
@Sarge Charlie Just continuing what you started.
…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…
Although it’s a shame you guys had to break away – you’ve done exceptionally well over the last 233 years.
…is a beautifully written and inspiring sentence. Happy Birthday!
THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION
Compiled by Jim Walker
“Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.”
-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)
In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.
Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.
Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word “God” embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson’s words engraved: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” When they see the word “God” many Christians see this as “proof” of his Christianity without thinking that “God” can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson’s God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush’s warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:
“The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . .”
Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.
If anything can clear of the misconceptions of Jeffersonian history, it can come best from the author himself. Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.
@ghost guru
OK, so who are these “right wing Christians” that paint Jefferson as one of their own? Since this was about Jefferson, let’s limit the discussion to just him.
Those quotes are just cherry-picked to push an agenda. Jefferson did indeed have a “complex view of religion”, and the author tries to simplify it to conform to a secularist’s nationview.
It is not the religious right who are trying to remake America; the revisionists are the militant secularists and atheist extremists, armed with ACLU lawyers, who have misrepresented and obscured the Framers and their original intent. It’s those of us who believe in the Judeo-Christian traditions and heritage that has shaped this country who wish to restore what’s been under assault for the last 60-70 years.
As far as Jefferson, he was an unconventional religious thinker who believed that there was a role for faith to play in a moral society. The Framers believed in a secular federal government and not an established church; but this didn’t mean they felt religious expression should be divorced from the public square or that government should be “untainted” by religion. Most of the evidence points to our early forebears seeking harmony between government and the free expression and exercise of religion.
From the very beginning of our nation’s history, it is ripe with the free-mixing of government and religion. Somehow, since the 1947 Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing decision, the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise of Religion Clause have been set in conflict. And the ruling was based upon a private letter written by Jefferson and misrepresented (taken out of context) by the Supreme Court (Jefferson wasn’t even in country during the Constitutional Convention, and not involved in the legislative drafting of the First Amendment).
For someone who is touted as desiring a “separation of Church and State” (look to the context of the metaphor in the Danbury letter), Jefferson
-Personally attended and authorized weekly Christian services in the Capitol building itself.
-In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer.
-In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of “Public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.”
-On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered “A National Prayer for Peace,”
-As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services.
Michael Medved talks about these faith-based initiatives:
[audio:http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/uploads/big-lie-3-5-jeffersons-faight-bas.mp3%5D
That doesn’t sound like someone who believes in the separation of Church and State, does it? Regardless of whether a Christian God or your generic religious god. Bottomline is, religious expression was part of life in serving public office. And no one at the time of the Founding Fathers and the subsequent 160 years thought there was anything alarmist about it. Until the ACLU.
Now you can’t even have a commercialized Christmas tree in public school without some intolerant liberal atheist huffing and puffing indignation and offense and non-inclusiveness.
In contrast, far from being an intolerant Christian extremist, what President Bush was is exactly how the majority of the Founders probably would have approved of: embracing and welcoming of people of all faiths and religions. He hosted the first Ramadan dinner in the White House, prayed with Muslim Imams and stressed that Islam was a religion of peace, lit Menorrahs in the White House, etc.
Atheism itself is a belief system. Why should it enjoy special privilege, endorsed by government?
Hmm…unfortunately, the audio player doesn’t embed in comments. Try downloading the mp3 file.
@ Word
Great post, but I doubt he’ll be back. Funny how people from the left like to talk about the lives of the founders, especially if they can throw something like religion into the mix. The one point you brought up about a secular federal government will fly right over his or any other lefty’s head.
@Wordsmith:
Well Word, you beat me to it.
I had a response all typed up last night but didn’t get a chance to post it due to some really, really nasty weather here. I decided that it would be best to shut down the computer.
The Founding Fathers left a multitude of their thoughts, feelings, and beliefs for the perusal of those of us who are interested enough to find out what they really thought, felt, and believed.
Unfortunately, the accuracy of history is altered by historians, and others, who have the desire to put forth or serve a specific agenda.
There are those, like ghost guru, who put forth falsehoods, either through an innocent lack of knowledge or a malicious desire to mislead those who don’t know any better.
Fortunately, here at FA, lack of knowledge and the perpetuation of myth is called out quickly, loudly, and regularly.
I, like Aqua, don’t know if ghost will reappear or not.
If he has a genuine desire for the truth, this is certainly the place for him to hang out.
OH
MY
GOD
RATDOG:ON your 3. IN 1700 they where realy good in poetry like this
AWAKEN ,I realy like this, thank you for finding it for us. bye
AYE CHIHUAHUA:hi, I see that green logo beside your name,nice,does it represent 2 persons,
bye