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batman
14 years ago
Thanks to the recent election, in a little over one hundred days, we’ve gone from Crook County, to Crook Country. This pay for play was first duly noted in the People’s Republic of Illinois. Where, they currently have impeached governors, and un-elected governors governing, and non voter appointed senators seated. Particularly perfected in Cook County: where the black art was first known to the world with dead people voting in the 1960 Kennedy election, to recently in the case of the county board president, to dead people holding office, and then successfully passing on the crown to their heir-apparent.
The strange thing now, is that similar insanity completely permeates the 111th congress, rages coast to coast, and even world wide. Signs of the times: Methinks the keys to the bottomless pit were given; And, it has been opened. Looky at what’s been crawlin’ out lately! The times, they are a changin’ !
tfhr
14 years ago
I heard a rumor Blagojevich was opening a Dodge dealership in Florida.
uri
14 years ago
Is there a way to gather a list of all the car dealerships in each state that has closed and ask them if they have contribute to the Republican Party or not?
This is a very serious allegation because so many people have lost their jobs, specially in Florida.
Aqua
14 years ago
Unconstitutional. All of these dealerships need to hit the courts hard and heavy. I think Obama is going to be the first president since Jackson to tell the Supreme Court to go bugger themselves. They will rule against him and he is going to throw a tantrum.
Hardly debunked Fit fit. The source just says there is no control group. I agree, there isn’t a control group yet. I don’t think anyone said there is proof that the Administration made definitive moves on dealerships for political purposes, just that the targeted groups looked suspicious. The site had no control group of just Chrysler dealerships. Therefore, not debunked…yet.
This is the list that Doug Ross and Joey Smith have been working from.
@Fit fit: Your source just points out the obvious: that most independent businessmen, you know, the guys who actually hire people and pay wages so that other people can live, are REPUBLICANS. What FIVETHIRTYEIGHT did NOT do was go through the list of closings and point out that Democrats were in the same proportion as Republicans as they are in contributions.
That’s being done now by various sources and I made it clear in my post:
More work needs to be done before I would say there is anything but a strong and suspicious coincidence here between closed dealerships and support for the GOP but those of us who are acquainted with the Chicago pay for play way of punishing opponents wouldn’t be at all surprised.
Try reading the post carefully before you jump in with your ill formed comments.
Nothing says ignorant and clueless like shutting down the retail side of a business to try and save it from bankruptcy. Either way, I’ll never buy another car that was built by anyone affiliated with the UAW.
URI
14 years ago
Thanks Mike’s America. Very interesting data.
Could that investigation be submitted to the DOJ?
Something tells me the Obama DOJ won’t be in a big hurry to investigate political corruption in the closure of auto dealers.
wesmorgan1
14 years ago
Well, FiveThirtyEight’s review of open records indicate that, of those who identify their occupation as “{auto,car,automotive,automobile} dealer”, almost 90% of their donations went to the Republican party or GOP candidates. (My understanding, from reading at RedState, is that others are going through the specific lists of closing and surviving dealerships, but I haven’t seen any results from that effort yet.)
In a general sense, however, I’d expect almost any selection from a group that goes almost 90-10 Republican to be weighted toward Republicans. So, what other factors came into play?
One issue is population saturation. Some bloggers have suggested that West Virginia, a solidly red state, is being unduly hammered. From the Chrysler list, I see 17 WV dealers closing and 25 remaining open (my count – I welcome correction). Given that WV has a population of only 1.8 million, of which 1.4 million is of adult age, I’m wondering how 42 dealerships stayed open for so long, especially in a sparsely populated state like WV.
Another is “number of brands.” Some dealers host multiple Chrysler brands, while others host but one or two. An awful lot of the closing dealerships (as I scroll through the list) sell only one or two of the four lines, but 80% of the remaining dealers sell them all. That’s a pretty strong point, I think; why keep a Jeep-only dealer open if I have a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealer within a decent radius?
(While we’re at it, 83% of those closing apparently sell more used cars than they do new cars; I’m sure that the question of “new sales” volume weighed heavily in the decision.)
The last I’ll mention (though I’m sure there are others) pits owners of multiple dealerships against the owners of single dealerships. The economies of scale suggest that it’s a better deal for Chrysler to keep the guy who has dealerships in multiple cities than it is to keep the guy who owns one dealership in one of those cities (or a nearby city).
I don’t yet see a black hand in this stuff…and it’s interesting to note that minority GM dealers are already suggesting that they’ll be hit disproportionately in the planned closure of that company’s dealerships. It’s easy to see a bogeyman, even when he isn’t there.
mooseburger
14 years ago
Tricky Dick said: “Nothing says ignorant and clueless like shutting down the retail side of a business to try and save it from bankruptcy. Either way, I’ll never buy another car that was built by anyone affiliated with the UAW.”
Actually, the dealership closures were already being actively dicussed and worked out before the bankruptcy happened. The article I linked to is from Feb 2008.
As for never buying anything affiliated with the UAW, just a question, why do so many conservative folks hate Unions so much? If they hate Unions and all they stand for so much, why won’t the Republican Senators and Congressmen give up their Seniority and benefits, and negotiate their own separate wages, benefits and conditions of employment on a basis consistent with their skill and ability they bring to the job?
And why do Conservative States who overwhelmingly elect these Union hating conservative representatives not call for their representative to relinquish their seniority rights and avoid any and all Union type job benefits or practices?
Are the Union type perks that House and Senate members receive good for them and the country and only bad when working people have them?
moose: Are the Union type perks that House and Senate members receive good for them and the country and only bad when working people have them?
What makes you think the perks Congress grants themselves are good for the country, moose?
As an ex-union member, I can only speak for myself. But I watched the union drive up the prices of film production to the abomination it is today. I watched it destroy small competitive businesses for post production services. It led to cuts even in the union workplace where, to make ends meet, they booted out the senior more experienced for the novice because it was a lower union wage scale to support.
Getting into the “brotherhood” was no picnic either. The dues, the pension, the rules. Often more difficult to deal with than non-union gigs. Personally, I’m wondering if my pension will still be there after this economic period blows thru.
Unions had their hey day… improving working conditions, safety, etc. Now they are about bloated salaries, big money and power. Between the unions, OSHA and the EPA, they are destroying US businesses.
@Fit fit: I think it is interesting that the the WH has targeted a segment of the industry that leans heavily Republican for cuts (The Dealers), while doing everything it can to bolster the segment of the industry that leans heavily Democrat (The UAW).
From my experience in retail, I find it outrageously counter-intuitive to try to solve a problem that is obviously caused by poor management and a bloated labor pool by shrinking the distribution channels. The dealership system seems to be the one part of the auto industry that has managed to remain profitable, and that is the first place they started slashing.
This is very indicative of the larger plan here: Not to promote profit, but to promote the nationalized fascist control of the industry.
Thanks to the recent election, in a little over one hundred days, we’ve gone from Crook County, to Crook Country. This pay for play was first duly noted in the People’s Republic of Illinois. Where, they currently have impeached governors, and un-elected governors governing, and non voter appointed senators seated. Particularly perfected in Cook County: where the black art was first known to the world with dead people voting in the 1960 Kennedy election, to recently in the case of the county board president, to dead people holding office, and then successfully passing on the crown to their heir-apparent.
The strange thing now, is that similar insanity completely permeates the 111th congress, rages coast to coast, and even world wide. Signs of the times: Methinks the keys to the bottomless pit were given; And, it has been opened. Looky at what’s been crawlin’ out lately! The times, they are a changin’ !
I heard a rumor Blagojevich was opening a Dodge dealership in Florida.
Is there a way to gather a list of all the car dealerships in each state that has closed and ask them if they have contribute to the Republican Party or not?
This is a very serious allegation because so many people have lost their jobs, specially in Florida.
Unconstitutional. All of these dealerships need to hit the courts hard and heavy. I think Obama is going to be the first president since Jackson to tell the Supreme Court to go bugger themselves. They will rule against him and he is going to throw a tantrum.
Yawn. Debunked.
@ Fit fit
Hardly debunked Fit fit. The source just says there is no control group. I agree, there isn’t a control group yet. I don’t think anyone said there is proof that the Administration made definitive moves on dealerships for political purposes, just that the targeted groups looked suspicious. The site had no control group of just Chrysler dealerships. Therefore, not debunked…yet.
@uri: List of closed Chrysler dealers by state is here:
http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/php/CARDEALERS0905.html
List in alphabetical order here:
http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Business/Dealerships%20filing%20Exhibit%20A.pdf
This is the list that Doug Ross and Joey Smith have been working from.
@Fit fit: Your source just points out the obvious: that most independent businessmen, you know, the guys who actually hire people and pay wages so that other people can live, are REPUBLICANS. What FIVETHIRTYEIGHT did NOT do was go through the list of closings and point out that Democrats were in the same proportion as Republicans as they are in contributions.
That’s being done now by various sources and I made it clear in my post:
Try reading the post carefully before you jump in with your ill formed comments.
Nothing says ignorant and clueless like shutting down the retail side of a business to try and save it from bankruptcy. Either way, I’ll never buy another car that was built by anyone affiliated with the UAW.
Thanks Mike’s America. Very interesting data.
Could that investigation be submitted to the DOJ?
@URI: You’re kidding right?
I just posted this:
Something tells me the Obama DOJ won’t be in a big hurry to investigate political corruption in the closure of auto dealers.
Well, FiveThirtyEight’s review of open records indicate that, of those who identify their occupation as “{auto,car,automotive,automobile} dealer”, almost 90% of their donations went to the Republican party or GOP candidates. (My understanding, from reading at RedState, is that others are going through the specific lists of closing and surviving dealerships, but I haven’t seen any results from that effort yet.)
In a general sense, however, I’d expect almost any selection from a group that goes almost 90-10 Republican to be weighted toward Republicans. So, what other factors came into play?
One issue is population saturation. Some bloggers have suggested that West Virginia, a solidly red state, is being unduly hammered. From the Chrysler list, I see 17 WV dealers closing and 25 remaining open (my count – I welcome correction). Given that WV has a population of only 1.8 million, of which 1.4 million is of adult age, I’m wondering how 42 dealerships stayed open for so long, especially in a sparsely populated state like WV.
Another is “number of brands.” Some dealers host multiple Chrysler brands, while others host but one or two. An awful lot of the closing dealerships (as I scroll through the list) sell only one or two of the four lines, but 80% of the remaining dealers sell them all. That’s a pretty strong point, I think; why keep a Jeep-only dealer open if I have a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealer within a decent radius?
(While we’re at it, 83% of those closing apparently sell more used cars than they do new cars; I’m sure that the question of “new sales” volume weighed heavily in the decision.)
The last I’ll mention (though I’m sure there are others) pits owners of multiple dealerships against the owners of single dealerships. The economies of scale suggest that it’s a better deal for Chrysler to keep the guy who has dealerships in multiple cities than it is to keep the guy who owns one dealership in one of those cities (or a nearby city).
(You can get both lists from http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2009/05/chrysler-dealers-to-be-cut-and-kept/ )
I don’t yet see a black hand in this stuff…and it’s interesting to note that minority GM dealers are already suggesting that they’ll be hit disproportionately in the planned closure of that company’s dealerships. It’s easy to see a bogeyman, even when he isn’t there.
Tricky Dick said: “Nothing says ignorant and clueless like shutting down the retail side of a business to try and save it from bankruptcy. Either way, I’ll never buy another car that was built by anyone affiliated with the UAW.”
http://www.carseek.com/news/february2008/Chrysler-announces-Project-Genesis/
Actually, the dealership closures were already being actively dicussed and worked out before the bankruptcy happened. The article I linked to is from Feb 2008.
As for never buying anything affiliated with the UAW, just a question, why do so many conservative folks hate Unions so much? If they hate Unions and all they stand for so much, why won’t the Republican Senators and Congressmen give up their Seniority and benefits, and negotiate their own separate wages, benefits and conditions of employment on a basis consistent with their skill and ability they bring to the job?
And why do Conservative States who overwhelmingly elect these Union hating conservative representatives not call for their representative to relinquish their seniority rights and avoid any and all Union type job benefits or practices?
Are the Union type perks that House and Senate members receive good for them and the country and only bad when working people have them?
What makes you think the perks Congress grants themselves are good for the country, moose?
As an ex-union member, I can only speak for myself. But I watched the union drive up the prices of film production to the abomination it is today. I watched it destroy small competitive businesses for post production services. It led to cuts even in the union workplace where, to make ends meet, they booted out the senior more experienced for the novice because it was a lower union wage scale to support.
Getting into the “brotherhood” was no picnic either. The dues, the pension, the rules. Often more difficult to deal with than non-union gigs. Personally, I’m wondering if my pension will still be there after this economic period blows thru.
Unions had their hey day… improving working conditions, safety, etc. Now they are about bloated salaries, big money and power. Between the unions, OSHA and the EPA, they are destroying US businesses.
@Fit fit: I think it is interesting that the the WH has targeted a segment of the industry that leans heavily Republican for cuts (The Dealers), while doing everything it can to bolster the segment of the industry that leans heavily Democrat (The UAW).
From my experience in retail, I find it outrageously counter-intuitive to try to solve a problem that is obviously caused by poor management and a bloated labor pool by shrinking the distribution channels. The dealership system seems to be the one part of the auto industry that has managed to remain profitable, and that is the first place they started slashing.
This is very indicative of the larger plan here: Not to promote profit, but to promote the nationalized fascist control of the industry.