In looking at the tons of declassified documents from the CIA, two things were noticed.
First,
TRADITIONAL FORMS OF INTERROGATION WERE TRIED FIRST.
Part of the criteria put forth in determining who, when, how, and why Enhanced Interrogation Techniques would be used was the REQUIREMENT that traditional interrogation methods had to be tried first, and had to have failed. Only after that had been determined (according to the declassified documents, could the process for getting authorization to use EIJ’s be pursued. If you’re lazy, just look at the table of contents and you’ll see that this was not a case of, “Woo hoo! We got so-and-so! Get a bucket!”
http://tinyurl.com/dal9ty
or
http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2009/04/24/17/IG_s_2004_report__as_released_to_ACLU.source.prod_affiliate.91.pdf
Second,
IT WORKED; ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE WAS GAINED
from using EIJs.
7/15/04
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM119_090507_eitbriefings.html
(Gosh, looks like they got something from the interrogations/”torture” after all. )
Supposedly…
September 11, 2002: Ramzi bin al-Shibh captured, purportedly as a result of intelligence gained through “torturing” Abu Zubaydah.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/17/AR2007121702151.html?hpid=topnews
Now, was it worth it? We don’t know because the Obama Admin (despite claiming that it wasn’t) refuses to release the documents from this date and others (as requested by VP Cheney, the Washington Post, and the New York Times) which allegedly show that yes…attacks were thwarted by the use of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.
What are Obama and the Democrats hiding?
See author page
@ trizzlor
Wait. You’re saying that by going to SERE school I was consenting to torture? I knew I should have read that contract.
Just like everyone else that served, I knew what I was getting into when I joined. And when I decided to become a member of the flight crew, I knew I would have to go to SERE. Just like I knew when I joined ParaRescue I knew I’d have to run until I puked up a lung. But if you think SERE is like a classroom where they show you interrogation techniques and then ask for volunteers, you’re sadly mistaken.
Once you join the military, that’s the end of your volunteering. Once the uniform is on, your butt belongs to Uncle Sugar. I read that contract and they don’t put that in the fine print. It’s right up front where you can read it. If I had to do it all over again, I’d do it all over again.
One more thing and I really have to get back to work. Trizzlor, you should really listen to Old Trooper. I’m sure you think you’re much more enlightened than he is, but just give it a shot. He said it best when he said, “torture is relative.” Get off your high horse for a minute and think about that. We’ll wait……
When I was younger and screwed up, my dad would whack me on the but with a belt. I thought that was the worse thing in the world. When I got older, he started giving me lectures. I was wrong about the belt. I actually asked him to whack me and get it over with so I could go back to what I was doing. Torture is relative.
Oh and I didn’t consent to a spanking, so, does that meet your definition of torture?
@Ron:
Malcolm Nance? His story has been in question and, I believe, refuted, found not credible by men who trained, took the training and served in the SEALs:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/015994.php
FWIW:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/015900.php#comment-39605
@Aqua:
Tis’ an honor to have you here with us and thank you for your service. I’m not surprised that you did not go into an indepth explanation about your training to refute Ron’s post. True patriot and man of honor.
@ Ron
OK I lied, last one. Ron, I don’t know Mr. Nance, never heard of him. I’m afraid he is misrepresenting the techniques of Waterboarding though. No water enters the lungs, so that’s clearly BS. The whole idea is to simulate drowning, not actually drown the person. Your gag reflex kicks in immediately and most people pass out rather quickly. They say KSM went over two minutes. You think he did that with water in his lungs? You ever get water in your lungs. Drink something and have it go down the wrong way? Yeah….over two minutes with water in his lungs. I smell something a bit fishy with Mr. Nance.
To all:
I just threw it up to liven up the discussion. I don’t know Mr. Nance personally nor can I verify his claims.
I just wanted to get some reactions.
Ron
To Missy:
I read your links and I must say that it does not entirely refute Mr. Nance’s claims but merely questions some of his accusations. And then there is the one comment by a David Wiles. Who is he and what proof does he have to back up his claim?
As far as individuals who have been waterboarded, there are some on record who have said they think it’s torture and some who have not.
Ron
Missy:
Ooops.
David Wiles does say who he is in the comment. I was speed reading and missed it.
Thanks for the link
Ron
Hi Missy, thanks for the kind words. I don’t think you will find many folks that have gone through any specialized training in the military that will publically disclose what actually takes place. We still have brothers and sisters serving that deserve our silence for their protection. Doesn’t mean we wouldn’t necessarily tell you some of what happened over a cold beer, as long as we didn’t suspect you of being a commie. 😉
My brother is a retired Senior Chief. The stuff he had to do for initiation into the “Chief’s Club” makes Gitmo look like a holiday in Maui.
Best view i have ever seen !