Obama Lift’s Ban On Taxpayer Funded Stem-Cell Research…MSM Cheer

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You know the MSM has the back of our President when they put a headline up like the following:

Obama Aims to Shield Science From Politics

Really?

So is he going to get rid of ALL restrictions on human experimentation? Would not any restrictions be considered “political interference” in science?

The short answer….nope….he will not get rid of all restrictions when it comes to human experimentation.

He is going to shield science from the interference his base wants him to get rid of only. That of stem-cell experimentation:

President Barack Obama on Monday cleared the way for a significant increase in federal dollars for embryonic stem cell research and promised no scientific data will be “distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda.”

Obama signed the executive order on the divisive stem cell issue and a memo addressing what he called scientific integrity before an East Room audience packed with scientists. He laced his remarks with several jabs at the way science was handled by former President George W. Bush.

“Promoting science isn’t just about providing resources, it is also about protecting free and open inquiry,” Obama said. “It is about letting scientists like those here today do their jobs, free from manipulation or coercion, and listening to what they tell us, even when it’s inconvenient especially when it’s inconvenient. It is about ensuring that scientific data is never distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda and that we make scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology.”

He said his memorandum is meant to restore “scientific integrity to government decision-making.” He called it the beginning of a process of ensuring his administration bases its decision on sound science; appoints scientific advisers based on their credentials, not their politics; and is honest about the science behind its decisions.

Appoint scientific adviser based not on politics but on their credentials? Sure thing. We will be waiting for an appointed adviser who believes, as millions of other Americans believe, that destroying a human embryo for experimentation is morally wrong.

I think we will be waiting a long time for that appointee.

The MSM and the left have been quite successful in defining this debate as the big bad Republicans banning stem-cell research. That’s a lie, and they know it. That kind of research was legal during the Bush administration, the only thing that was not legal was taxpayer money paying for it. Private funding was perfectly ok during the Bush years.

But the MSM has a long history of being disingenuous. At least the NYT’s was a little itty-bitty honest about it:

The ban, known as the Dickey-Wicker amendment, first became law in 1996, and has been renewed by Congress every year since. It specifically bans the use of tax dollars to create human embryos — a practice that is routine in private fertility clinics — or for research in which embryos are destroyed, discarded or knowingly subjected to risk of injury.

For a time, the ban stood in the way of taxpayer-financed embryonic stem cell research, because embryos are destroyed when stem cells are extracted from them. But in August 2001, in a careful compromise, President Bush opened the door a tiny crack, by ordering that tax dollars could be used for studies on a small number of lines, or colonies, of stem cells already extracted from embryos — so long as federal researchers did not do the extraction themselves.

But then we get this kind of disingenuousness from the WaPo:

The decision by President George W. Bush to restrict funding for stem cell research has been seen by critics as part of a pattern of allowing political ideology to influence scientific decisions across an array of issues

Once again, it’s only political ideology….not the fact that many find it MORALLY reprehensible, which the WaPo admits to deep into the article:

But the research is highly controversial because the cells are obtained by destroying embryos, which some consider to be immoral.

If one views it as immoral, as President Bush did, then it has nothing to do with political ideology.

Rep. Mike Pence:

“I’ve always believed it’s morally wrong to use taxpayer dollars that destroy human embryos. But now it’s not only morally wrong, but also completely unnecessary. It is as thought the administration and the abortion-rights Left in this country has completely ignored the extraordinary medical advances of the last year and a half, which have essentially rendered destructive embryonic stem-cell research unnecessary…From the very beginning of this administration, this president has been trampling on the sensibilities of pro-life taxpayers — using taxpayer dollars to fund abortion overseas, and the omnibus bill actually erodes the historic protection of Kemp-Kasten. And now this decision — it’s all part of a pattern.”

Rep. Eric Cantor:

“The President’s action today is not about whether or not to permit stem cell research, or even embryonic stem cell research in America. We already do each of those things. Today’s action is about forcing taxpayers to fund ethically troublesome – and unproven – research that destroys life.

“Nearly every American supports continued stem cell research, and Republicans laud the miraculous innovations made in ethical and sensible adult stem cell research. Unfortunately, today the Administration wasted an opportunity to unite our country around these ethically and scientifically sound innovations by allowing the use of taxpayer money for embryo-destructive stem cell research, which millions of Americans find morally reprehensible. This divisive action will divert scarce federal resources away from innovative and proven adult stem cell research.”

The fact of the matter is that private companies have done plenty of research on stem-cells, and nothing…absolutely nothing…has come out of it. The same cannot be said for adult stem-cell research.

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So how does this statement on scientific enquiry etc jibe with the approach on GLOBAL WARMING

seems contrary to policy

What a sham! Adult (and other non embryonic stem cells) are making advances everyday, fewer complications, no moral dilema! There never was a ban on embryonic stem cell research, just a ban on federal funding. I think the war on real science is just getting started with the Obama- Pelosi -Reid regime.

As usual, the mainstream media has been spinning this issue (or displaying their ignorance) ever since Bush vetoed the first embryonic stemicell research bill in Sept 2006. Unless you are careful to notice the word “embryonic” in the title of any article, video, or sound bite (if the word “embryonic” is used at all), you’ll believe that George Bush II has been against stem-cell research from its beginning. The truth, of course, is that Bush has always supported ADULT stem-cell research, but has opposed EMBRYONIC stem-cell research.

Obama claims that his decision is about “ensuring that scientific data is never distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda and that we make scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology,” but he never makes note of the fact that embryonic stem-cell research has failed to produce a single medial treatment, whereas adult stem-cell research has been successful. I don’t doubt that some day embryonic stem-cells will be the key to developing treatments for various diseases and disorders, but once again Obama has put the cart in front of the horse. Instead of allowing open debate (transparency and 5-day notice before signing legislature, anyone?) Obama has opened Pandora’s Box without having protective measures in place. The decision to give the NIH 120 days to write requirements for selecting projects for funding is akin to closing the gate after the cows have left. After the NIH drafts its requirements, will there be provisions for public comment? Will there be Senate hearings on the matter? Is the NIH going to be part of the legislative branch or the executive branch of government? How long will it take if there is open comment and reasonable time for the NIH to rewrite requirements taking into account all public feedback, assuming such feedback is allowed.

What will be done (or can be done) to prevent abuses by companies or other research firms that will not be seeking government funding? Will it now be okay for those groups to go forward with human cloning – the logical next step? And since the ends justify the means, why not allow experimentation on Alzheimers’ patients who are completely out of touch with reality, or on comatose patients requiring technological intervention to be kept alive indefinitely?

Besides, are we really going to restrict this research to embryos from fertility clinics, while stem-cells are far more abundant in the cord blood of aborted “fetuses?” I shudder when I think about the government opening up this can of worms.

I think it’s time to remind Obama of the words of the last Democratic Party President: “It’s the ECONOMY, stupid!”

Jeff V

Curt: Appoint scientific adviser based not on politics but on their credentials? Sure thing. We will be waiting for an appointed adviser who believes, as millions of other Americans believe, that destroying a human embryo for experimentation is morally wrong.

This is a good point, but those nasty public opinion polls do show the vast majority of Americans do believe using discarded embryos for science should be allowed (73%) What about the millions who believe capital punishment is morally wrong? Should the minority of Americans who believe capital punishment is wrong make us ban capital punishment?

Curt, we are speaking about taxpayer dollars being used for extinguishing life (when some find the action(s) immoral, that is the parallel I am drawing.

Go no that even al Jazeera has a YouTube on this divided opinion. Per this video, Obama’s EO lays out that taxpayer funds will not be used to create new new stem cells lines, but those who have been depending upon private funding for the new stem cell lines (which I support) can now apply for government grants.

I have two problems with this. I don’t want to see abortion/pregnancy used as a possible revenue source. Secondly, and I’m not fully up to speed on this, but I have heard of far more advances done by using adult stem cells, including the patient’s own.

Frankly, when there is a potential market for a research breakthru, the private funding has stepped up to the plate. There are many that operate both in the US on private funding, and the restrictions are not in place outside the US. Yet where is all that break thru miracle stuff?

I’m opposed to this based more on our economics than morality. But I do see where this can lead to a clinical attitude on pregnancy as well. But then, that attitude is already widespread in this new age.

The Nazi’s said the same thing Obama is saying about sound science.

Curt, I see your point. My point is about one group leveling a moral question about life and government funding what they perceive as taking life, then the same would apply to other conditions where large segments of the population have similar misgivings.

Curt: There is nothing laid out that it is the governments role to fund research for medical breakthroughs.

No, but the subject of government role in funding research is a separate issue all together. There are many things the government should not do that it does, and some things it does not do that it should.

There is nothing laid out that it is the governments role to fund research for medical breakthroughs

Following that line of thought – why should government build and run hospitals and schools? Leave to the private sector??!

curt: But doling out punishment is most definitely what the government should do, the private sector cannot be involved in that.

There are hundreds of private prisons nationwide. Maybe that is not the “doling” part, but the private sector is involved in that area.

My point is about life and death. If a group of people believe that embryos are full human lives, and that their tax dollars should not go to extinguish this life, what about the other side of that coin. The fact that there are many millions of people who are against the death penalty since it is taking a human life. Yes, that includes doling out the money to do either or both.

Curt: It is up to the community, who puts the politicians into place who make the laws,

Well, last I checked President Obama was elected and exercised the same power as President Bush did when he decided to limit the money to the lines open at that point.

If indeed ESCR was showing any sort of promising results then the private sector would be all over it with both feet.

Can you imagine the dollars waiting for the researcher who could successfully use ESCR to cure something like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s?

Tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars.

The unspoken, undisputed truth, however, is that ESCR has resulted in NO positive results. In fact, some of the results are downright freakish and beyond a little bit scary.

A family desperate to save a child from a lethal brain disease sought highly experimental injections of fetal stem cells—injections that triggered tumors in the boy’s brain and spinal cord, Israeli scientists reported Tuesday.

:: Snip ::

“Patients, please beware,” said Dr. John Gearhart, a stem cell scientist at the University of Pennsylvania who wasn’t involved in the Israeli boy’s care but who sees similarly desperate U.S. patients head abroad to clinics that offer unproven stem cell injections.

“Cells are not drugs. They can misbehave in so many different ways, it just is going to take a good deal of time” to prove how best to pursue the potential therapy, Gearhart said.

:: Snip ::

Israeli doctors pieced together the child’s history: When he was 9, the family traveled to Russia, to a Moscow clinic that provided injections of neural stem cells from fetuses—immature cells destined to grow into a main type of brain cells. The cells were injected into his brain and spinal cord twice more, at ages 10 and 12.

Using stem cells from multiple fetuses that also were mixed with growth-spurring compounds “may have created a high-risk situation where abnormal growth of more than one cell occurred,” wrote lead researcher Dr. Ninette Amariglio of Sheba Medical. She urged better research to “maximize the potential benefits of regenerative medicine while minimizing the risks.”

Embryonic stem cells to date have had limited success in animal tests and has yet to produce a single viable treatment in humans. For that matter, they have not yet been safe enough to enter into any human clinical trials. One difficulty is because of their pluripotency, they become disorganized and produce teratomas (tumors) that lead to cancer. Also because embryonic stem cells come from another human, there is the risk of immune rejection.

On the other hand, adult stem cell research, adult skin cell research, and cord blood research are proving to be very promising:

Adult stem cells, which include umbilical cord blood stem cells, have provided benefits in over 70 diseases based on peer-reviewed published reports. From helping people with brain cancer, diabetes, spinal cord injury, heart disease, Parkinson’s, sickle cell anemia, lupus and others. An adult stem cell treatment recently cured a man with multiple sclerosis and he has been MS free for 5 years now. The advantage of adult stem cells is that they do not form teratomas, and often the stem cells used to treat the patient are their own, therefore avoiding any immune rejection issues, and there is no big money involved.

A German AIDS patient was able to stop drugs he had been taking for 10 years after getting a transplant of stem cells from a donor with a rare gene variant known to resist the deadly disease. The transplant also cured his leukemia, researchers reported.

A 30-year-old Spanish woman has made medical history by becoming the first patient to receive a whole organ transplant grown using her own cells.

Stem cells transplanted into early-phase multiple sclerosis patients stabilised, and in some cases reversed, the debilitating neurological disorder, according to a study published Friday.

Last year it was discovered that skin cells could be converted into embryonic stem cells without destroying an embryo:

Two groups of researchers, followed shortly by a third, independently reported that they could convert human skin cells into embryonic stem cells, bypassing embryos altogether. And immediately, the field of embryonic stem cell research began to explode. Laboratories that had steered clear of the field because of the sheer difficulty of working within the constraints of the ban on federal financing realized they could simply make their own stem cells from skin cells and study them, with no impediments.

Why, oh why, can’t we focus on the research that is actually producing results without the moral dilemmas that come with ESCR?

It seems to be a no brainer to me.

@GaffaUK:

You’re right.

The gov’t should not be involved in any of those.

Outside of the military, can you name anything that the gov’t does well?

Even the military doesn’t operate as smoothly and efficiently as a private enterprise would.

Curt: he has no business using the people’s money for research which millions view as morally wrong, especially seeing as it has not borne ANY fruit in the many years of privately funded research while adult stem-cell research has.

There are millions of people who think the military should be smaller, that we shouldn’t have nuke weapons etc (all for what they consider “their moral” reasons. I don’t agree with them either, but the fact is when you win a election there are consequences. The people have spoken and elected Obama. As to the fruit of the decision, who knows, neither of us are experts and I have read enough on both sides to see that some believe one way and others believe another…

I guess we should save all of these discarded embryos and put them in that woman from California to see how many kids she can pop out.

@blast:

I guess we should save all of these discarded embryos and put them in that woman from California to see how many kids she can pop out.

Nah, we’re already paying for her first fourteen.

We don’t need any more mouths to feed from that household.

Yeah bro, sad on that one. Thankfully her kids won’t look like her, since she had her face changed to look like Jack Nicholson (Joker) in the original Batman movie.

curt: Again, that is the role of our government laid out by our founding fathers, protecting our country. .

Well, honestly, the Federal Government that the founders would not have had much of a standing Army like we have had since WWII. I am glad we have a large military and hope it gets expanded properly, however I think the founders would have been against it. Thankfully we did not completely demobilized following WWII like we did in WWI.

The FDIC, Public Libraries, Public Universities, Government funding of technology, the interstate highway commission, S-CHIP, Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, the FDA, the USDA, and on, and on.

Government in a democratic republic is the people, the government is not a them, but an us.

Actions speak louder than words and O’Dumbo’s action prove he is not a Christian in any shape or form. If he still claims to be a religious person that only leaves the one religion which believes in murdering babies at any stage of life, Islamism. Welcome to the real world truth.

BTW The National Academies of Science, agrees with President Obama, that this will allow faster treatments for paralysis, juvenile diabetes, and on, and on. Maybe God inspired the NAS to take this opinion because he/she/it doesn’t like needless human suffering? If you have that Memo from God instructing us on Embryonic Research, please let me know.

Aye,
Yes, I can name many things the government does better than private enterprise.. but you are so blind from your own BS to ever accept it.

The fact is the army corp of engineers would have done a much better job at restoring the levies and dikes around New Orleans for 1/4th the price of Halliburton and or it’s affiliates did. If you want numbers and facts look them up. the whole idea that private enterprise can always do it better is BS at it’s finest.

@Scrapiron

Actions speak louder than words and O’Dumbo’s action prove he is not a Christian in any shape or form. If he still claims to be a religious person that only leaves the one religion which believes in murdering babies at any stage of life, Islamism. Welcome to the real world truth.

Not true…Christians have had different views on abortion as have different religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_abortion

@ Curt & Aye

Yep let’s privatise the military!

Anything they spend on bombers, bombs, wages etc – they have to make up either by charging individuals (it has to be on an individual basis otherwise it would be socialist to enforce protection payment on all americans as some might not want it – or want to pay less) who want protecting or/and by grabbing any spoils they get on their military adventures.

Woo Hoo…

These are embryos that would be discarded otherwise. There is no evidence of a soul, and because various faiths believe that the soul enters the body at different times, if at all.

The New Testament was hand copied by people who were not the principles, there were 25+ Gospels of Jesus, they selected four, at a conference in Greece of the different sects. The creation story is a variation on Sumarian myth, Adam and Lillith. These authors, who often added their own script, changed material, have as much authority to claim God was working through them, as a bioethicist.

Priviate = non-democratic, public = democratic.

I love it how many on here seem to want to get government out of business and out of science – and how they demand proof which will convince them (an impossibility when they are resolutely unconvinced by anything) of climate change – and yet they ‘believe’ in an invisible God without any scientific proof – and wish to involve God in everyone’s lives – such as the sensitive subject of abortion – irrespective whether they believe in the nonsense that is religion or not.

Pragprop: BTW The National Academies of Science, agrees with President Obama, that this will allow faster treatments for paralysis, juvenile diabetes, and on, and on. Maybe God inspired the NAS to take this opinion because he/she/it doesn’t like needless human suffering?

Naw…. just all about money, Pragpro. The science world lives from government grant/handout to government grant/handout. Why do you they they are all on board with the AWG propaganda?

~~~

CRAP/Sky55110: The fact is the army corp of engineers would have done a much better job at restoring the levies and dikes around New Orleans for 1/4th the price of Halliburton and or it’s affiliates did. If you want numbers and facts look them up. the whole idea that private enterprise can always do it better is BS at it’s finest.

Really, now CRAP? Try again… the failure of the levees is founded on the accusation that the Army Corp of Engineers design was substandard to begin with. Not to mention that the post-Katrina work is a product of the Army Corps of Engineers and their 14.8 bil budget. They put out bids for contractors to build to their engineered design… all work was done under their supervision.

The extra cost over the original estimates – again the responsibility of the Army Corps of Engineers – was because of insurance standards the Corps didn’t factor in…. ala building them to insurance-certified standards. Had nothing to do with the contractor… they work to the Corps engineering specifications.

Sorry, your blame Halliburton BS doesn’t play well in the face of reality.

Yes, I can name many things the government does better than private enterprise.. but you are so blind from your own BS to ever accept it.

Woof… like who are you to accuse another of being blind from your own BS. See above….

So… we’re still waiting as to what the government does better than private enterprise, CRAP. Take your time. Don’t hurry. We don’t pine for your inane, simpleton utterings anyway.

Government has been the primary engine for technology funding in the United States for decades. From the internet which was developed by the military, to funding that goes to MIT for Biomedical innovation, we the people are not the problem. “The money” means jobs, and new industries, I thought that’s what capitalists like you and me wanted? When the private corporations fail, like a bank, the FDIC steps in a it’s business as usual.

People are more willing to take chances, with a safety net. Children are not responsible for the bad choices of their parents. Ending the cycle of poverty often mean government providing access to breaking the chain, via a subsidized college education, this reduces crime rates, drug abuse, and creates more citizens who can meaningfully participate in their nations well-being.

New Orleans was hit so hard because the wetlands were diminished such that they couldn’t take the brunt of the storm like a mangrove should. Restore the wetlands. Also, the levee system needed to be retrofitted, like so many of our bridges, roads, and vessels of commerce, W. let our infrastructure go.

Mr. Progressive #35: Also, the levee system needed to be retrofitted, like so many of our bridges, roads, and vessels of commerce, W. let our infrastructure go.

Perhaps you’d like to explain why, after six died in 1995 from New Orleans levee failures, that Clinton and the then Dem Congress didn’t fund the levees in the seven months they remained in power? Or perhaps for the remaining term of Clinton? Or are you still suffering from memory loss pre Jan 2001?

Gawd… have the progressive/liberals alerted the history textbook writers that the world as we know it today was instantly created with the Bush Inaugural? Evidently, prior to then, everything was coming up roses, nothing was in disrepair, and the world was in harmony.

Government has been the primary engine for technology funding in the United States for decades.

Care to substantiate that with some specifics, Pragpro?

National Academies of Science, they have a website, visit it.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1998&page=48

Deleted by Mata as pointless BS aimed at Nancy Reagan

Yeah, we could go over the last 10,20,30,40,50,..years. Reagan and GW Bush were terrible Presidents in my opinion. I have plenty of problems with Clinton and Carter. It’s not just black or white, there are shades of gray. It’s not always so clear-cut. These administrations handle many, many issues. I like W’s work on African Aids relief, but I would like to have seen condoms distributed. It’s a cheap way to prevent AIDS babies. Call me crazy like that. W.’s administration was especially bad, considering what he left for Obama. I’m a political scientist, That’s my professional opinion, we both love America, we both want the best for our people. If you don’t care for my opinion, such is free market of ideas. I don’t mind.

Why am I here?

I am everywhere. I have no ego. I have no profit motive. I’m a policy wonk with a great education from Public Schools, and I like to give back to my democracy via discourse.

I don’t ask for permission. I don’t care if you hate me. I’m untouchable, therefor free, and undiluted.

“And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping
The moon tells me a secret – my confidant
As full and bright as I am
This light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me

Its source is bright and endless
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her, we are lifeless satellites drifting

And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt
Don’t wanna be down here feeding my narcissism.
I must crucify the ego before it’s far too late
I pray the light lifts me out
Before I pine away.

So crucify the ego, before it’s far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that’s imagined and all conceivable.
Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason …
before we pine away.”

– Maynard James Keenan

“Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see there is so much more
and beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind.

Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
I feel it move across my skin.
I’m reaching up and reaching out,
I’m reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one’s been.
We’ll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one’s been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going…”

Mata: have the progressive/liberals alerted the history textbook writers that the world as we know it today was instantly created with the Bush Inaugural? Evidently, prior to then, everything was coming up roses, nothing was in disrepair, and the world was in harmony.

I agree with your theme about things being in disrepair before Bush and I have mentioned before that the present generation has added little to our nation as in infrastructure, compared to the “great generation”. The quote above should be replayed when thinking about the new president as well. I am not going to draw a comparison to the state of the economy, international relations or anything of the sort prior, but for sure the day President Obama took office the country was in much much worse condition than when President Bush took office or President Clinton and going back years. Blame that on whomever you want, but it is a fact.

We are living in a total shit storm. Two wars, collapsed credit markets (increased bank failures including some huge ones), declining housing values, heavy declines in equities and commodity values, massive home foreclosures, states and local governments in financial stress, unemployment rates skyrocketing in a domino effect across the economy. GM, once one of the largest companies on earth, is in effect out of business and does not even know it. I am all for sharp elbows when the race is on… but the election is over. President Obama is our leader regardless if you think he is empty suit or not. We all better pray for his ass instead of wishing he fails. You might not like the plays the coach is calling, but he will be coach for the next 4 years and this team must win.

No one’s talking about the election anymore, blast. But just because Obama got elected doesn’t mean I’m rolling over and playing deaf, dumb and blind to what he’s proposing.

So let’s not play the word game here. No one, including Rush, wants the nation to fail. However if Obama is planning on implementing his expensive Euro-socialist experiment at great cost to the structure of this nation, I want him to fail to get that agenda thru. This, of course, constitutes a “failure” for Obama himself, but a “success” for this country.

I have twice on this site put up positive Obama posts…. both having to do with foreign policy. His domestic policy? I’m a red blooded, freedom loving, fiscally prudent government loving conservative. You will have to drag me kicking, screaming, biting and fighting into agreement what what this POTUS has planned….

….or else you’ll have to spike my water with prozac.

~~~

What? Mr. Progressive gone so soon, Curt? How shall we survive without him? He contributed so very much to the debates. LOL

Or, perhaps as he will see it, he’s “free”. I tend to view it as jettisoning dead weight….

I agree with Blast, what rationale person couldn’t/wouldn’t?

Maybe we should just liberate this website. I think they’re manufacturing weapons of mass dumbness.

Mata, I have seen posted here many things blaming the present President for the state of the economy and calling him a socialist for wanting to nationalize businesses, etc. I bet we end up with the major banks nationalized. I would not doubt that the US will own most of GM and combine it with Chrysler. The thought of these businesses failing and the implications on the rest of the economy is not to be understated. I just don’t know if we would have a free market if they all failed. We live in very very perilous times.

This just out tonight and no doubt we will see the markets continue to plunge:

WASHINGTON — America’s five largest banks, which already have received $145 billion in taxpayer bailout dollars, still face potentially catastrophic losses from exotic investments if economic conditions substantially worsen, their latest financial reports show.

Citibank, Bank of America , HSBC Bank USA , Wells Fargo Bank and J.P. Morgan Chase reported that their “current” net loss risks from derivatives — insurance-like bets tied to a loan or other underlying asset — surged to $587 billion as of Dec. 31 . Buried in end-of-the-year regulatory reports that McClatchy has reviewed, the figures reflect a jump of 49 percent in just 90 days.

Blast,

I’m just following the Democrats’ lead – I’m being patriotic by criticizing the President.

Obama apparently thinks that the ends justify the means. But let’s be crystal clear on the stem cell issue. Before George Bush vetoed two bills on the matter, there was federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, and after he vetoed the bills, there was (still) federal funding on embryonic stem cell research. What the vetoes did was to limit federal funding to only the 21 lines of embryonic stem cells that had been in use at the time. So to say that George Bush didn’t allow funding for embryonic stem cell research is an absolute lie. Nobody seems to care about the facts, though, so so-called journalists take liberty with the facts (or don’t care to learn the facts) and get away with saying that Bush was against stem cell research. What’s the first thing taught in Journalism 101? Verify the facts.

The NAS is happy, because now they’ve been given the go-ahead to redefine life as embryos that someone wants. How long before we star using aborted fetuses for their stem cell rich cord blood? As soon as they are seen as having value, will babies “born” during partial-birth abortions be seen more as a valuable research commodity than as human persons worthy of legal protection?

And as has already been pointed out, there seems to be less need for embryonic each day as science finds more ways to coax stem cells from skin, bones, and even brain cells, without resorting to harvesting embryos.

The reason embryonic stem cells are desired is because they are plentiful. Why not use them if they’re just going to be thrown out, right? How do we keep clinics from producing these embryos solely for the purposes of embryonic stem cell research? After all, they’ve got lots of frozen eggs and frozen sperm just sitting around. What company wouldn’t try to sell off its inventory (or inventory by-products) if the price was right?

This is another example of change that the world could live without.

@MataHarley:

Well, I didn’t get to hang around FA last night. I was up late working on an Op Ed piece for our local paper.

I see that the MoonBats were a’flyin in my absence.

Pragpro burned himself out rather quickly but not before we got to enjoy the full depth, width, and quality of his knowledge.

Oh well, another bug on the windshield.

Obama’s lift yesterday regarding taxpayer funds for ESC’s has nothing to do with cures. ESCR (from human embryos) is “so yesterday” even the state of CA is using its ESC voted taxpayer monies to fund grants for ADULT stem cell work.

The real breakthrough came almost 2 years ago when a Japanese group made iPS cells from patient SKIN cells. This was such a major break through even Ian Wilmut, of Dolly the Sheep, retired the ESC technology and switched to iPS technology. Consequently, labs around the world switched to iPS cells, even Harvard which was heavily funded with private ESC research monies (Bush never made the research illegal as many incorrectly report, only not available with tax payer money).

The ultimate goal of stem cell research is/was to get “patient specific.” The first group to do that was out of Australia using Adult stem cells from the nose. Harvard followed closely behind making groundbreaking news with patient specific iPS cells. George Bush even presented a coveted award to one of the leading Harvard scientists this past December, but of course it got no MSM coverage (I wrote of this about a month ago on one of the other threads here).

Patient specific means that for the first time, the actual diseases can be carefully studied, understood, and tested against drugs; all conducive of course to successful treatments and cures.

It was ONLY after the iPS patient specific work at Harvard this past year that the drug companies started putting in the money. Mata is correct in that when the technology is good, the public funds are always there. That has indeed been the case with Adult Stem cell technology, especially after the iPS technology.

The adult stem cell news continues to get better! Just this month, reported in nature, another breakthrough involving electroporation technology has now eliminated the problem of a carcinogenic gene (c-Myc) used in the iPS technology. In simple English, it means that any oncogenic genes used in the iPS technology (albeit necessary for the process), can now be eliminated by a “filtering out” so to speak, i.e., electroporation. This will be especially important when patients start receiving treatments. It was never a problem that any one didn’t think would be overcome.

To date, there are 73 known cures and or treatments using adult stem cells, and ZERO success and copious horror stories using embryonic stem cells. There are many reasons beyond ethical that ESC’s are not ideal. For starters, the research is complicated and involves human eggs which are very difficult to get, even with highly paid donors. Retrieving human eggs from women is an ethical issue in of it itself. Moral issues aside, the ovaries can over stimulate, and deaths have occurred in rare situations.

The other reasons involve incompatibility, owing to the fact that unlike iPS cells which are directly from the patient, ECS’s are foreign to the body. Without transplant drugs, the body will reject the cells. Of even more concern are the tumors that patients of ESC acquire (recent case mentioned in previous post)

This all leads to the million dollar question. Assuming that Obama was correctly advised by his scientific staff, why would he undo a ban that was a given to be divisive and most of all, at least in terms of scientific advancement, unnecessary?

I’m sorry to say it has absolutely nothing do with cures and a lot to do with abortion. I dare say (but I hope not), possibly eugenics. I want to be careful regarding the eugenics call because the guidelines have not yet been put into place. What I am sure about is that the entire “politics” of ESC’s has always been about the desensitization of abortion. It makes even more sense now since the “Stimulus” bill with big government calling the shots of our medical treatment from the mandatory electronic database. I suspect in some shape or form, abortions will be mandatory down the line. The more we “get used to it” now by cloning and killing embryos just because “we can”, the easier it will be to feed to the masses when “economic” decisions regarding “worthless disposable life” are at hand.

Of course there is also the “follow the money” crowd. Right now the “get it while its hot” crowd is porking on stem cell stocks, but know this is as phony as the easy housing loans.

Yes you will still find scientists who are adamant that we still need to “study the real living human stem cell.” Anyone in science knows that it’s simply code for “I can therefore I will.” It’s the ultimate ego/power trip, especially with human life.

That said, even iPS cells can be misused. So far they have not been, but that day is coming, rest assured. The technology already exists to make three parent embryos and embryos sans sperm. If we were not playing with human life, I could get pretty fascinated by it all myself. But the reality is, it IS human life, and regardless if you come from it as a civil rights issue or a religious issue, the misuses of any of these technologies are as evil as the FALL for the religious, and tortured and abused slaves for the secular.

Used correctly iPS cells hold extraordinary promise. The question of the day is, considering our entitlement and our over consuming society, how far, if at all, will we let the good get ugly? Do know that a one cell embryo contains all the DNA it will ever have, even as a 90 year old; totally unique to that person (or future person). It’s fully human and fully living.

The debate need not go into religion, merely only to civil rights, that under our founding fathers, all LIFE is to be equal and protected.

America, and especially the vulnerable, was duped from day one regarding ESC research. If anyone is going to get up out of their wheelchairs, it will be because of adult stem cell technology, which sadly, never fit the political agenda. I also want to mention that few, if any, are “disposing of frozen embryos.” Even non religious parents agonize over them.

From a moral standpoint, at least in my opinion, yesterday was one of the saddest days in American history. I am convinced that the consequences will be startling! If we haven’t proven that we are barbaric in our 4000 abortions a day, we certainly showed our greedy self-serving, power hungry face today by celebrating just how low we can go when it comes to human life. I guarantee you, in one form or another, this one is coming back to bite.

p.s. My first post went into spam while I was adding a link in the edit format

can you please remove #48 and keep #49. Thanks (my first edit got stuck in spam)

Done – Aye

It seems to be a no brainer to me.@Aye Chihuahua:

Why, oh why, can’t we focus on the research that is actually producing results without the moral dilemmas that come with ESCR?

But didn’t you get the transparency memo from President Obama, Aye? He’s speaking on behalf of science, whereas the opposition speaks only on grounds of ideology and politics.

@Pragpro:

BTW The National Academies of Science, agrees with President Obama, that this will allow faster treatments for paralysis, juvenile diabetes, and on, and on. Maybe God inspired the NAS to take this opinion because he/she/it doesn’t like needless human suffering? If you have that Memo from God instructing us on Embryonic Research, please let me know.

The only God they’re worshipping here is the Almighty Dollar, through government grants.

Oops…nevermind my comment to Prag….Mata already addressed it in comment #33; plus, it seems he didn’t last long here. [sarcasm]Loved his poetic self-important elitist soapboxing in comment #40.[/sarcasm]

President Obama Also Drops Executive Order for Adult Stem Cell Research Funds

Imagine that! Well, at least Obama’s consistent in his destruction of all things good in America. Funny too how the MSM hasn’t gotten around to reporting this part.

[excerpt] click her for the full article

Bioethcis attorney and watchdog Wesley J. Smith says the Obama decision to also reverse this executive order shows Obama is really the anti-science president, not his predecessor.

“Of course, the Administration didn’t have the candor or courage to publicize this part of his nasty work,” he said. “But the now dead order explicitly required funding for alternative methods such as the new IPSCs, which offer so much promise without the ethical contentiousness.”

“Alternative methods are one of the few areas in which we can all row in the same direction, which I thought this president wanted to do,” Smith added.

“I can think of only two reasons for this action, for which I saw no advocacy either in the election or during the first weeks of the Administration,” Smith says. “First, vindictiveness against all things ‘Bush’ or policies considered by the Left to be ‘pro-life’ and second, a desire to get the public to see unborn human life as a mere corn crop ripe for the harvest.”

“So much for taking the politics out of science,” he concludes

~~~

Mata Note: I took the liberty of correcting your URL to the article, pdill. You can find it on Lifenews.com

I saw this video today that shows how the different news outlets are reporting the story about Obama lifting the stem cell funding ban. It’s really interesting to see the difference in perspectives… definitely worth a look.

http://www.newsy.com/videos/stem_cell_funding_ban_lifted/

I thought the question of when life begins was above Obama’s pay grade. At least, that’s what he said. If that’s the case, then how can he support embryonic stem cell research? Has he decided that the life of a human being does not begin at conception as is the scientific consensus?