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The first inkling of this was the banishment of the bust of Winston Churchill from the Oval Office and the White House.

LOL, now what the President decorates the oval office now has some special meaning… Geez a bust was banished! Was that a presidential banishment or a decorator’s banishment.

@blast: If you are unfamiliar with how that act was perceived by our ally I suggest you visit the link provided or do a google on the subject.

Your ignorance on this point is glaring.

So much for “working with our allies”
All the British want is some parades and ceremony to reaffirm they’re respected. Obama can’t even do that?! Too cold to go to the airport and meet our best ally? Nice.

Washington Post too. Kinda hard for the Admin to ignore.

Dana Milbank too
hmmm

Some of the things Obama has done can be explained by his world-view (Socialism). Others can be explained by his narcissism and naïveté. But, this makes no sense. Why be down right rude to the Prime Minister, especially a Progressive one? As I have said, a lot of what he does is purposeful and other is because he is clueless. The interesting exercise is to figure out which one is at play. I guess…this falls into the clueless category.

http://franklinslocke.blogspot.com/

mikeA, If you are unfamiliar with how that act was perceived by our ally I suggest you visit the link provided or do a google on the subject.

The Telegraph is like Fox News for the UK and is a mouthpiece of the conservative party. So if you have a non partisan source then let me know, but until then this piece is laughable.

blast, the bust was given to Bush after 911 as a gift for display to commemorate the allied bonding.

When Obama offered to give it back, since he didn’t want to keep it in the Oval Office himself, the British (rather appalled he wanted to give it back) came back and reiterated they like him to keep it.

He didn’t need to put it in the Oval Office, but could have had it on display elsewhere in the WH. Instead, he chose to slap our British allies with a return of the gift with little fanfare. Obviously, Obama places no import on it’s historic significance in time… and we know he’s not much of a Churchill fan.

His action was rude, and uncalled for. None of which surprises me.

@blast: Was there something about doing a simple Google on the subject that escapes you or are you just being an ASS?

Don’t bother answering. I know.

OK, here are some non-Telegraph news stories that you apparently have missed:

Newsweek. Are they part of the conservative conspiracy?

Busted: The Churchill Flap
By Katie Connolly | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 21, 2009

Has America’s even- tempered new president already ruffled feathers in the land that spawned Borat and Benny Hill? That’s certainly how the spiky British press responded after the White House sent back to the British Embassy a bust of Sir Winston Churchill that had occupied a cherished spot in President Bush’s Oval Office.

How about Dana Milbank at the Washington Post? Is he a right wing hack?

No Colgate Moment, Indeed
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post
Wednesday, March 4, 2009; Page A03

Our British cousins are getting the feeling that the new administration doesn’t fancy them.

The murmurs began when President Obama returned to the British Embassy the Winston Churchill bust that had been displayed in the Oval Office since Tony Blair lent it to George W. Bush.

The fears intensified when press secretary Robert Gibbs, announcing British Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s visit to the White House, demoted the Churchillian phrase “special relationship” to a mere “special partnership” across the Atlantic.

And the alarm bells really went off when Brown’s entourage landed at Andrews Air Force Base on Monday night. Obama, breaking with precedent, wouldn’t grant the prime minister the customary honor of standing beside him in front of the two nations’ flags for the TV cameras. The Camp David sleepover that Blair got on his first meeting with Bush? Sorry, chaps.

Still, Brown kept a stiff upper lip as he sat in the Oval Office yesterday as Obama, skipping the usual words of welcome for his guest, went straight to questions from the news services. Brown didn’t get to speak for six minutes, after Obama had already answered two questions. Gamely, the snubbed premier tried to speak the president’s language.

I suppose you think that the London Times is in the tank for conservatives but they also objected:

Churchill bust casts shadow over special relationship with the US
The Times
January 31, 2009

The fate of the bust inevitably will be laden with more historic significance than other decisions the President makes as he mulls over redecoration plans, such as getting rid of Mr Bush’s collection of decorative plates.

17,400 more links here if those don’t satisfy you.

Mata, if you could produce all of the story on that I would buy your explanation. I doubt Obama was going to send back a “gift” but something that was an heirloom lent by the British. And I am also sure the WH has “people” who decide what is the right protocol for such things. I tend to see this in the light of hysterics when it comes from people like mikeA and “The Telegraph” (BLOG). I would believe you Mata if there was more meat on the bones of this story. Frankly I am skeptical, very skeptical.

@blast: “I would believe you Mata if there was more meat on the bones of this story. Frankly I am skeptical, very skeptical.”

@MataHarley: Your #1 fan is ready and waiting to do some butt kissing.

I think we should change “Frankly I am skeptical, very skeptical”
to
“Frankly I’m ignorant, very ignorant.”

The murmurs began when President Obama returned to the British Embassy the Winston Churchill bust that had been displayed in the Oval Office since Tony Blair lent it to George W. Bush.

It was lent… not banished! It was not lent to Obama. Get a life mikeA.

@blast: If you don’t have anything substantive to say which addresses the subject of this post then why say anything at all?

Your habit of nit picking is nothing more than a further demonstration of your wankering egocentrism.

Obama had the bust removed. It upset the British.

More to the point, the removal of the bust appears to be part of a broader attitude change in the White House.

THAT is the subject here.

Either stick to it or see your comments deleted.

I am under no obligation to allow you to take this thread hostage to your malformed ego.

First of all, blast, there is no ‘hysteria” on my part for Obama’s rude and insensitive behavior. Nor is his lackluster support for our current allies (i.e. Britain, Columbia and Israel, just to name three) a surprise.

Yes, the “gift” was a long term loan… renewed thru Bush’s second term, and offered again for Obama third term… sorry, freudian slip there with the possible Mr. Chavez… er Obama… multiple and endless terms in the future.

It did not come with the stipulation that it had to be displayed in the Oval Office.

However I commented on the return of the Churchhill bust before, using the somewhat tempered Telegraph article at the time to show the effect of doing so.

A bust of the former prime minister once voted the greatest Briton in history, which was loaned to George W Bush from the Government’s art collection after the September 11 attacks, has now been formally handed back.

The bronze by Sir Jacob Epstein, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds if it were ever sold on the open market, enjoyed pride of place in the Oval Office during President Bush’s tenure.

But when British officials offered to let Mr Obama to hang onto the bust for a further four years, the White House said: “Thanks, but no thanks.”

Diplomats were at first reluctant to discuss the whereabouts of the Churchill bronze, after its ejection from the seat of American power. But the British Embassy in Washington has now confirmed that it sits in the palatial residence of ambassador Sir Nigel Sheinwald, just down the road from Vice President Joe Biden’s official residence. It is not clear whether the ambassador plans to keep it in Washington or send it back to London.

~~~

The rejection of the bust has left some British officials nervously reading the runes to see how much influence the UK can wield with the new regime in Washington.

Now it is likely that Gordon Brown will offer a alternative symbol of Anglo-American fealty when he visits Washington to meet Mr Obama for the first time since he became President. Diplomats are still working to finalise a date for the visit which is expected in the final week of this month or early in March.

~~~

A British Embassy spokesman said: “The bust of Sir Winston Churchill by Sir Jacob Epstein was uniquely lent to a foreign head of state, President George W Bush, from the Government Art Collection in the wake of 9/11 as a signal of the strong transatlantic relationship.

“It was lent for the first term of office of President Bush. When the President was elected for his second and final term, the loan was extended until January 2009.

“The new President has decided not to continue this loan and the bust has now been returned. It is on display at the Ambassador’s Residence.”

So the Churchill bust, which has significant import to the Brits was just not up to the Obama snuff. As I said, he didn’t need to keep it in the Oval Office. It was, IMHO, a serious diplomatic slap to the face, and made our British allies queasy.

BTW, instead of the loan of British heirloom to honor the transatlantic relationship, I guess they couldn’t figure out anything that would satisfy the picky and rude POTUS. So they brought him a pen holder instead.

Considering all the spending bills he’ll be signing into law this year… hang in the next month or two… it’s probably appropo

BTW, since you have such an aversion to the Telegraph, here’s the Daily Mail’s version relating to the subject of Mike’s post; also noting the not so subtle snub by our arrogant POTUS.

You wouldn’t expect a socialist/communist/nazi to keep a bust of Churchill, the last true Brit to fight for freedom, in his office, would you?

The British know they’re burnt toast anyway. They just turned a murdering Kennedy into a Knight.

Hey, the Brits are P.O.’d and the Russians have told Hussein O to kiss their a** twice in a month. Hussein O’s influence is far and wide among the residents of America’s mental health facilities, aka insane asylums.

mata: BTW, instead of the loan of British heirloom to honor the transatlantic relationship, I guess they couldn’t figure out anything that would satisfy the picky and rude POTUS. So they brought him a pen holder instead.

Considering all the spending bills he’ll be signing into off this year… hang in the next month or two… it’s probably appropo

hahaha….

Will Hussein O have the statue of liberty destroyed next?

Mata: Did I just hear the sound of lips puckering up?

@Scrapiron: France will be told to come and get it and send it to the recycling heap.

No press conference, no lunch. For the PM.

What on earth is Obama thinking? Perhaps he fears to give another press conference because that would put the DOW under six thousand

It’s obvious why Acting President Obama didn’t want to have a stand up. I mean how would it look with the dummy Obama and his little teleprompter buddy standing next to the PM. The Obama act is a little screwed up without his little buddy to read the script from.

It’s pretty obvious that Obama doesn’t care a whit about foriegn policy. That’s why he dumped state on Hillary. But at the same time, he also doesn’t understand it, and neither do his staff flunkies and so just look for more of this crap down the road.

Of course, for all the Telegraph’s bluster, the British are just auxiliaries at this point. Like everybody else.

If you are given a gift – it is impolite to try and give it back. The Queen gets all sorts of gifts which she either stores or gives away – she doesn’t make a point of trying to hand it back. Plus it’s Churchill – if it was a bust of Posh Spice – I would understand.

Maybe when Obama visits the UK – we should hold back the usual pomp & pagentry and put on a cold buffet at Heathrow airport;)

@GaffaUK: Touched a raw nerve with you too hunh?

Will wonders never cease?

Sure Obama is looking to fix up the damaged U.S. relationships around the world. He’d be happy to patch up things with Iran, Palestine, Lebanon, etc. Screw those other guys! Who needs the English anyways? I mean he is the Big ‘O’ right? He knows what is best for England!

We are sooooo screwed these next 4 years. We better hope that the repubs regain control of congress in the next election. Maybe that can slow the hemorrhage we’re starting to see.

GafficUK, if you dig in deep in the story you find that “If you are given a gift – it is impolite to try and give it back. The Queen gets all sorts of gifts which she either stores or gives away – she doesn’t make a point of trying to hand it back.”

From NYT: The murmurs began when President Obama returned to the British Embassy the Winston Churchill bust that had been displayed in the Oval Office since Tony Blair lent it to George W. Bush.

The reality was the bust was on loan to George Bush from Tony Blair and Obama returned it. If it had been a gift, I would say that would be a bit out of place, but it was a British Heirloom which was simply returned. Much ado about nothing.

@blast: In the above comment: blast you said: ““if you have a non partisan source then let me know, but until then this piece is laughable.”

You were then showered with a host of sources including Newsweek and the Washington Post.

You simply ignored that refutation of your lame argument:

blast“I am skeptical, very skeptical.”.

You then attempted to avoid the obvious charges of intellectual dishonesty by sucking up to Mata then tried to nit pick the word “banishment.” Fine… let’s use the words “ejection” or “rejection” from some of those mainstream sources you demanded then ignored.

Now, here you are back again blast: “Much ado about nothing.”

Are you telling a citizen of the U.K. that he doesn’t have a right to feel dissed? Or are you just in denial that apparently so many subjects of the crown feel that way?

Either way, you continue to represent a level of willful ignorace and a lack of intellectual integrity.

A smarter man would know better than to come back and refocus attention on his buffoonery.

You daily demand an exceptionally high standard from every single one of us here. It’s past time you lived up to that standard.

I’ll be waiting for your apology.

blast is a troll. He is here just to be obnoxious.
This thread is absolute proof.
Ok, he may just be in need of some geodon.

I hate to change the subject, but the Kennedy Knight-hood deserves notice. If he accepts the title, Kennedy will have to resign his Senate seat or be in violation of the Constitution.

The Constitution of the United States prohibits both the United States and the separate states from granting titles of nobility. Moreover, certain U.S. citizens are prohibited from accepting foreign titles while holding office of profit or trust. The text follows:

Article I, Section 9, Clause 8. No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

It gets better:

First Lady Michelle Obama shows even she has a gift for the gaffe

It was all going so well. The dresses, the brains, the Vogue cover shoot – everything so far about Michelle Obama has left us wide-mouthed in admiration. It seemed there was no end to her fabulousness. Then Mr and Mrs Brown came to stay.

Like all good guests, Sarah Brown arrived bearing gifts for the children, Malia and Sasha. And they were really nice presents. A bit of thought had clearly gone into choosing them: Top Shop dresses (with matching necklaces) and a selection of books by British authors. Lovely.

Mrs Brown may have two boys but she certainly knows the way to a little girl’s heart. These were gifts chosen in the true spirit of present-giving: to please the recipient, not the giver.

In return Mrs Obama gave the Brown children, Fraser and John, two toy models of Marine One, the Presidential helicopter. Fair enough on the helicopter part, always a popular choice with small boys; but Marine One? It’s not as though anyone needs reminding that Barack Obama is President or that he has his own helicopter. Short of giving the boys Action Man models of her own husband smiting the evil forces of neoconservatism, Mrs Obama’s gesture could not have been more solipsistic or more inherently dismissive of Mrs Brown.
Related Links

Not only did she demonstrate that she spent approximately three seconds contemplating the needs of the Brown boys (having an aide pop to the White House gift shop for a piece of merchandising does not imply a great deal of thought), she appeared to show a most uncharacteristic lapse of judgment.

:: snip ::

As for Fraser and John, their parents’ trip to America will always be remembered as the time that “Mum and Dad went to see the President, and all we got was this lousy plastic helicopter”.

0bama had no urgent need to gratuitously affront the Brits, it only cost him, but did not buy a thing, if anything, 0bama’s current friends will have very carefully taken notes on the pathetic petty style in which 0bama cut their best and most loyal ally, the UK, adrift.

Remember, Labour went up against their own voters and their own country to help the US in Iraq(in fact, they committed treason to do so).

“The Telegraph is like Fox News for the UK and is a mouthpiece of the conservative party. So if you have a non partisan source then let me know, but until then this piece is laughable.”

Labour is going to lose the next election to the Conservative party and already are a spent force in many aspects, people are just waiting for the election now, Labour is in no position to promise or plan anything anymore — other than their forthcoming retirement.

Hey GaffaUK, I’ll apologize for the dip stick in the White House.
I’ve always apprecitated the alliance with the Brits even at times when they were a bit too progressive.
Always liked the Margaret Thatcher and Reagan combination too.

BTW “I blast”,,,, do you always act like a dickhead ignoring facts you’re too lazy to look up????
I’ll bet you think it’s cute or you really think you “showed them”???

You’re laughable and quite entertaining as moonbats go..

No $100 per lb (yes that’s an old English measurement) for the British prime minister?

tsk tsk tsk

@RightWingHippyChick

Yep I’m looking forward to the day when the unelected Gordon Brown gets booted out. It took at least 10 years after Blair’s first landslide for the Tories to recover. They chose several uninspiring too far to the right candidates – in Hague, IDS and Howard. This is warning to the Republicans. What might have worked for Reagan and Thatcher probably won’t work now.

Yeah, the bust of Churchill had to go to make room for the kwanza wall hanging he got from Rev. Wright.

What’s laughable about this story is it highlights the low class renters we have in the White House – always actin’ a fool. No respect for reality. It’s the friggin’ Jeffersons moving on up to Washington. And the 58 million who didn’t vote for those fools are embarrassed every day with some new stupid move.

Hey Blast, maybe we can count on Iran and the Palestinians to help us out in Afghanistan? Come on! You know they want to back us up against their muslim brothers.

Apparently, Obama’s grandfather was detained in a British prison and tortured by Churchill’s forces during the Mau Mau revolution in Kenya. I can understand his reticence to remove the Bust from the Oval Office, but he handled the situation poorly.

Obama should have explained why he was bothered by the bust, and then should have moved it to a different spot in the White House. I’m sure he could have found a spot that his family doesn’t use but where guests and others could view it. By rejecting the gift (and in the manner described), Obama committed a serious diplomatic faux pas.

I’m frequently amazed at the hollow echo resounding from his empty shell, and his wife isn’t getting off to a great start either.

So Obama gives this country a black eye – not unexpected from a bully.

Jeff V

That should have read “his reticence to *keep* the Bust *in* the Oval Office.”

Sorry for any confusion.

Jeff V

ruaqtpi2: By rejecting the gift (and in the manner described), Obama committed a serious diplomatic faux pas.

It was not a gift! It was on loan to President Bush and was offered to be loaned to President Obama but the loan was declined. There is a big difference between a loan and a gift. If the bust was given to the USA, and was now property of the USA, that would be a big difference.

It gets even betterer.

#10 Downing Street has tried to keep quiet what BO gave to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

What did BO give to the Prime Minister you ask?

Well, you weren’t the only one to ask that question.

Apparently it wasn’t anything worth braggin’ over.

Gordon Brown has been given a collection of 25 classic American films on DVD as his official gift from Barack Obama.

The Prime Minister flew home from his successful trip to Washington this morning with the ‘special collector’s box’ of films hidden in his luggage.

No 10 had tried to keep the present a secret, refusing to answer reporters who asked what President Obama had given to mark the reaffirmation of the special relationship.

However, the London Evening Standard reported, the prime minister received the collection of DVDs as his gift.

It is not known which DVDs were included, but one is thought to be the Dreamworks film Toy Story.

One reason for the secrecy might be that the gift seems markedly less generous and thoughtful than the presents taken to Washington by the Prime Minister.

Mr Brown’s gifts included an ornamental desk pen holder made from the oak timbers of Victorian anti-slaver HMS Gannet, once named HMS President.

Mr Obama was so delighted he has already put it in pride of place in the Oval Office on the Resolute desk which was carved from timbers of Gannet’s sister ship, HMS Resolute.

Another treasure given to the U.S. President was the framed commission for HMS Resolute, a vessel that came to symbolise Anglo-US peace when it was saved from ice packs by Americans and given to Queen Victoria.

Now, if you thought that part was great, just wait.

Remember the subject of this post and the Churchill statue that was returned to the Brits?

Seems that BO received one other special gift:

Finally, Mr Brown gave a first edition set of the seven-volume classic biography of Churchill by Sir Martin Gilbert.

Heh.

blast, you consistently miss the point of not only the Churchill bust… but the piling on by thoughtless, insignificant return gifts by the Obamas.

The British perceive the nonchalant return of the bust and the Obama reception of Brown less than respectful. Witness even Gaffna… one who is far from anti-Obama… finds their behaviour insulting.

*That* is the point being made here. You may parse words and intents all you want. But you still miss the larger picture. Obama prefers to snub our allies, and move closer to despotic regimes. He figures if we dilute our relationships with other western countries, the Islamic regimes will be more pliable.

He is a fool, and evidently has putzs as diplomatic advisors.

blast, since you seem hell bent on nit picking words…
“It was not a gift! It was on loan to President Bush and was offered to be loaned to President Obama but the loan was declined.”

OK, so .. we understand it was ON LOAN and not a gift since it wasn’t given. GOT IT.
So, you don’t have to keep parroting the same frigging line!

The loan was extended to Obama and he declined. GOT THAT TO.
Move on to another reply now. You are starting to sound like a broken record.

The point you are refusing to entertain IS SIMPLY that the Britains are feeling dissed.
The question is WHY NOT ACCEPT THE EXTENSION OF THE LOAN? What does it hurt to do so? Why the hurry to decline? Why not accept it when such a move would do no harm and would not be a SOCIAL/POLITICAL faux pas? What as gained by returning it?

Can you address those questions or will you repeat yourself like the broken record you seem to be now? Ball is in your court and the spot light is yours. Give us something original and non-repetitive IF POSSIBLE.

Obama simply put his arrogant nose in the air and returned it, damn the consequences!

And as far as Ms. Obama in the article sighted by Aye Chihuahua … would it be possible to show LESS CLASS? One would think that at least they could have asked the people around them what would make a good gift to the Browns. Perhaps something the boys had always wanted? But to cough up something that took 5 minutes to pick out? CRASS! Just plain low class and crass!

Hawk: Can you address those questions or will you repeat yourself like the broken record you seem to be now? Ball is in your court and the spot light is yours. Give us something original and non-repetitive IF POSSIBLE.

With all due respect Hawk, I was addressing the misnomer in ruaqtpi2 #35. Leaving the impression that a gift was returned is inaccurate. As to the whole affair being a purposeful slap at the British, I don’t see it. I see it as a perpetual bullshit storm.

Mata: blast, you consistently miss the point of not only the Churchill bust… but the piling on by thoughtless, insignificant return gifts by the Obamas.

Mata, do you think George Bush shopped for gifts for foreign dignitaries? Oh yeah, let me go out and shop while the stock market is tanking and we have two wars going…. Don’t you think their are protocol officials responsible for this?

So from what I read here, people think… the following happened: Obama decided, lets insult the British by sending back a “loaned” bust of Churchill, and lets see what they have on sale at Walmart for a gift? Nuts.

Can you say what George Bush gave to Tony Blair when they first met? Maybe the VHS versions of the same movies huh? Maybe a big cowboy hat? You have no idea of course.

Yep, there is a whole office in the State Department (along with many in the White House) who tend to these issues.

State Department Office of Protocol: the office is responsible for activities including the planning, hosting, and officiating of ceremonial events for visiting chiefs of state and heads of government, as well as coordinating logistics for the visits; managing Blair House, the President’s guesthouse; and overseeing all protocol matters for Presidential or Vice Presidential travel abroad, working alongside the White House.

What was worse… the DVD’s and returning something that did not belong to you or… White House Protocol Gaffes Insult Chinese .

Like I have said, much ado about nothing.

ooieevay, blast. You’d better step outside and clean off your combat boots after stepping in da sheeeeet, guy.

Of course I know what Bush’s first gift to Blair was… a vintage leather bomber jacket with fur lined collar, emblazoned with the Presidential logo and his name embroidered on it. I remember it because when Brown came to power, Bush also gave him one. He was less than enthused, much to his wife’s chagrin. Evidently she thought it might give him a more casual appearance to his usual stoic and stiff dress code. I believe Brown may have refused the gift. Blair, however, has been photographed wearing his.

Perhaps you missed it due to the Obama love in the Bush final days, but he had a ceremony where he bestowed parting gifts of the nation’s highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom. Given to Blair, Australia’s John Howard, and Columbia’s Alvaro Uribe.

All more thoughtful and personalized gifts than what the Obama’s chose. As I said, he’s either a naive fool on allied diplomacy, or he has putzs as his diplomatic advisors.

Lastly, this isn’t about what you think. This is about the perception of our allies across the pond. And frankly, they just don’t agree with your choice to toss this aside as much ado about nothing.

@blast:

Since when is a loan of something valuable not a gift? From Webster’s online dictionary:

gift (definition #2): something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

The loan of the bust sure sounds like a gift to me.

By the way, I don’t see this as a slap in the face at all, at least, not an intentional slap. Nonetheless, it’s a terribly embarassing moment for the U.S. One would expect a bit more culture from an American President and his administration. Classless at best.

Jeff V

mata: I remember it because when Brown came to power, Bush also gave him one. He was less than enthused, much to his wife’s chagrin.

Bush Bombs With Bomber Jacket Gift for Brown

Mata, Interesting you remember the bomber jacket, it caused quite a stir back when PM Brown dealt with his:

Brown, intentionally it seems, did not reveal the gift to the boorish brood of scribes traveling with him. They found it by happenstance: a gold box with a presidential seal sitting neglected in an empty seat in the back of the plane taking Brown back to London.

Do you think that was a slap in America’s face? IT WAS MEANINGLESS, JUST LIKE THE PRESENT SITUATION.

Oh, and Brown gave Pres Bush some books as well. Can’t Brown get his act together and come up with something more personal than books, again! /sarcasm

Mata: Perhaps you missed it due to the Obama love in the Bush final days, but he had a ceremony where he bestowed parting gifts of the nation’s highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom.

I would never call the Medal of Freedom a parting gift, and yes, I remember the occasion.

As far as the Anglo-American Alliance, I see no change. Both leaders are liberals and I have not seen any “real” policy or diplomatic changes. No bomber jacket dumped by Brown, nor DVD collection given by Obama will change the meat and potatoes of our relationship.

ruaqtpi2: Since when is a loan of something valuable not a gift? From Webster’s online dictionary:gift (definition #2): something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

Why not look up LOAN which was in fact the issue we are discussing? From Webster’s online dictionary: loan -1b. something lent for the borrower’s temporary use 2a. the grant of temporary use.

What part of temporary to loan don’t you understand. When I get a gift, I know it is mine to enjoy and keep. When someone loans something to me, yeah, I can enjoy it, but ultimately it goes back… it is a LOAN.

THAT”S ENOUGH BLAST!

All you are doing now is spamming this thread with a bunch of half baked rationalizations.

Your goal is to totally obfuscate the point of this post.

You know it. I know it and the readers know it.

You are engaged in tactics which reveal an extremely low level of intellectual integrity.

Yet you continue to demand the highest standard of intellectual integrity in others.

No more of your comments will appear on this thread and I will be taking an equally hard line to any of your comments appearing on my other posts.

I do not intend to allow you to make this the Blast ego blog.

blast, Bush didn’t consider it a slap, and that’s the point. It is the perception of a gift and/or “loan” (since you want to keep harping on that) that is important.

Because Bush had the class not to be insulted when Brown shunned his gift… which is far more thoughtful and personal than a set of movie DVD’s that Brown could order online at Amazon… makes it a non event. BTW, Brown is not even known to be a cinema buff of any kind… let alone “American classics”. Might as well have given the guy a gift certificate to Blockbuster.

It’s also a non-story that French Prez Chirac gave Blair many vintage bottles of wine that he never used, and never cared about. But Chirac didn’t feel slighted. Non story.

What makes this an event is that the British *are* feeling shunned. Do get this thru your head. Just because you think it’s “meaningless” doesn’t mean the British feel that way.

I repeat, this story isn’t about *YOU* and *YOUR* feelings. This is a story about how the British react to Obama’s cold shoulder reception for what he termed “was” a great American ally. Yes, they also noticed he used the past tense.

And the books given to Bush were about Churchill… something he very much appreciated, and a sweet complement to the gift loan of the bust.

Obama has no class, and his diplomacy advisors are sorely lacking.

It looks like BO went shopping personally for the Prime Minister’s gift.

Image Source,Photobucket Uploader Firefox Extension

A short video which captures the symbolism of this state visit.

This is just too funny.

Roll the tape:

H/T to the good folks over at Red State.

I don’t think so, since Obama’s polling shows the vast majority of people approve of his Presidency.

Since when is 58% a “vast majority?”

Were that 58% an election majority, it would be called a landslide, Don Miguel (i.e Reagan).

But to substantiate your comment, that would be 58% of 1000 or so poll responders to any given, badly worded question by the particular pollster. Even less significant when you consider the small segment of population sampled.

But the desperate cling to any silken thread when trying to justify the herd mentality.

Aye? You’re on a roll keeping me in grins today, dude…. LOL

Blast:

Since you continue to be a picayunish self-appointed Proofreader Extraordinaire, please allow me to point out that you were the first to comment on the use of the word gift, in your message (post #8), and I quote:

“… I doubt Obama was going to send back a “gift” but something that was an heirloom lent by the British.”

I know (rather, presume) that you can count, so you’ll recognize that my comment (post #35) and your rant (post #37) came well after post #8. So you can’t just hide behide some silly (and incorrect) assertion that the issue was whether or not the word “loan” was used properly. The issue is clearly whether or not the loan was presented in the spirit of gift giving. So, yes, a loan can be a gift if it is “something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation.” The bust was a loan, certainly, with a time frame understood to be as long as the countries remained allies with a special relationship. No doubt each country’s leaders expected (at the time) that the bust of Churchill would never have to be returned as long as the US considered Britain to be a respected ally and friend (and vice-versa.)

Did any of this occur to Obama? Did he stop to think about the ramifications of his actions, or is he too immature socially and diplomatically to realize that one’s actions (however small they may seem) just might have consequences? I honestly can’t decide if he’s too ignorant in such situations, or if he’s too damned arrogant. The Brits stand on ceremony, even if some classless Americans don’t recognize this or act appropriately. Either Obama doesn’t understand this, or intended to impress upon the Brits that he doesn’t consider them valued allies or friends with a special relationship. Either way, as our Number One ambassador, he did not do this country proud!

Obama needs to take culture classes, and perhaps his diplomatic advisors should attend with him.

Jeff V