As I’ve said, that “spread the wealth” comment wasn’t an off the wall mistake…. this is an embedded political philosophy.
Vietnam era Navy wife, indy/conservative, and an official California escapee now residing as a red speck in the sea of Oregon blue.
This is Bill Ayers Marxism verbatim. Obama was paying very close attention to Ayers + Wright for 20 years after all.
WOW! THAT SHOULD BE THE KISS OF DEATH TO HIS CAMPAIGN
Ms. West should have played that for Joe Biden in that interview where he lied his butt off and pretended that’s not O’Bunko’s PRIMARY agenda.
GO HERE AND THANK BARBARA WEST Balance out the clueless people who think she was wrong.
You guys are morons. He is not advocating some specific type of redistribution, especially some kind of socialist type of redistribution. We already possess, in this country, a progressive tax system that is by its nature a redistributive mechanism. It was set up to explicitly redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor. Even Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations (and, John McCain in 2000) advocated for this. So nice try, but no dice.
Ah yes… the Obama cyber hit squad is out in droves with Alinsky’s Rule #3
Guess what, Lindsay… won’t work here. We’re not “confused” by you misrepresenting what he’s doing as nothing more than what’s been done for decades. The “progressive tax system” campaign camp talking point just isn’t a good “distraction”.
So before you decide to wander in here and call anyone a “moron”, I’d suggest you put your rocks down as you stand in your glass house, and have a read about what your leader is *not* telling you about his tax policy.
Hint… he’s either deplorable at math, or he’s more interested in keeping “the faithful” in the dark.
Nice try… no dice in this forum.
BTW, what do *you* call taxpayer funded preschool and college, taxpayer funded work programs and training, taxpayer funded national healthcare, taxpayer funded energy programs… etc etc.
Sorry your socialist guy is too expensive for this country. BTW… he’s already spent 3x the amount of McCain, and he’s run out money to fund his latest big party. Did you get the call they need yet more money?
Funny… for all that spending, you’d think he’d be double digits ahead of the ol’ guy, eh? Then again, as he’s proven with his CAC experience, Obama knows how to raise money from others, spend everyone else’s money, and have little to show for it…. except, of course, quite a few enriched Chicago political friends and some Greek columns in a warehouse somewhere.
EARTH TO CLUELESS KOOLAID DRINKER LINDSAY…
He clearly says that the founding fathers (the constitution) represent an obstacle to his Communist agenda, WHICH HE IS CLEARLY ADVOCATING!
October. SURPRISE!
As tens of millions of voters continue find out the truth about the repugnant Barack Hussein Obama and his horrible socialist ideology, all of these same voters are turning to John McCain and Sarah Palin.
Keep it up Barry. Soon we’ll have almost every American voter voting for McCain.
God bless America.
Lindsey;
Do you have any idea where that;
…originated? Prior to 1913 there was no Federal Income Tax.
Answer: The Socialist Labor Party – 1887.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
I know I just argued this point in another post two days ago, yet if you read section 8 & 9 of our Constitution, taxation is supposed to be equally charged to all Americans based soley upon the census, not on individual wealth. 40%+/- of those filing Income taxes pay nothing. That makes the progressive tax system you so cherish un-Constitutional. The U.S. Government cannot take property from anyone, this includes money, without due process and just compensation. What compensation is offered to those you would tax more? Na-da… zip. Does the military fight any harder for those who pay taxes than anyone else? Are our roadways segregated so that only the wealthy that pay taxes get to drive on them? Of course not. That too makes the progressive tax system un-Constitutional.
But once Democrats got a taste for taking our money, their hunger became insatiable, leading to FDR’s New Deal, which took even more money out of our pockets to hand over to others as entitlements and lengthened the recovery from the Great Depression. Since then they have used pork and created more and more legislation to take more and more out of the pockets of John & Jill Q. Public. We’ve had enough of it.
You may have good, bleeding heart liberal intentions, but you have no idea how our economy works.
You can’t keep trespassing on the property of others to drink from their well without expecting it to one-day run dry or to receive a butt load of rock salt from their shotguns when they try to stop you. Nor forciblly take the food from their children’s mouths to feed your own, if you are unwilling to go out and seek work for yourself. That is what is happening. You aren’t, justifiably in your mind, hurting the large corporations and big business as you might think you are. They get around taxes through loopholes or pass those taxes right back to you. That’s why politicians on both sides of the aisle get those big campaign dollars and lobby perks. So that only leaves small and medium businesses and industries. Rest assured, if you keep taking it out on them, they will lay off those willing to work or eventually be forced to close up shop and/or move more industrial jobs overseas. Then there will be no lower and middle class tax brackets. Only one, ‘the destitute poor’.
I really do not think I need to respond to Lindsey here, I think you guys did a great job at it. Only 8 more days of this crap. They are going to be coming out of the wood work.
Rocky_B, you are such a legal scholar, so why do you not realize that the constitution has amendments? The sixteenth amendment allows the federal government to tax incomes without regard to census enumeration or apportionment.
You analogize the progressive tax system to taking food out of children’s mouths and stealing water from a well, however, the reason that the tax system is progressive is just to avoid that. It allows people who have virtually no extra money to pay lower taxes, and asking very high earners with high discretionary income to pay more. Do you know anyone making over 250k who worries about having enough money for groceries to feed their families? I don’t, but I do know many people who make less than that who do need to worry about basic necessities. Taxes fund many services, like roads, hospitals, police, fire fighting, veterans services, the military, and clean air and water. If that isn’t “compensation” for our tax dollars, than I don’t know what is.
Your last premise seems to be that corporations take advantage of the any loopholes our tax code allows them, so that they are paying an unfairly low bill, while the rest of us are stuck paying it all. You may be right, for sure, so maybe you could find a section of the tax code that needs to be changed.
SHHHHH! Someone in the MSM might hear about this. Then, of course, it would be a hugh lead story for days! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
chit;
Perhaps you missed that I linked to that very amendment you refer to. If you bothered to read that link, you will note that in Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co. The Supreme Court found that the Income tax legislation pushed through Congress was indeed un-Constitutional. There was only way the Democrats could get around that and that was by establishing a Constitutionary Congress to break open our Constitution and change it to suit their desires. This was a very difficult thing to do as they had to have a 2/3rds majority to do it. So the idea stewed for a couple of decades before they could get the votes they needed to do it.
This is a very real danger we face this election if Pelosi gets her 250 Democrats in the Senate and Reid his 60 majority in the House. There is no doubt they will indeed convene another Constitutional Congress and change it to whatever the Hell they want. Including transforming our Republic into a socialist country. Do you have any idea how dangerous that amount of power is? It’s more than just our taxes that will be changed. Social Democrats will utterly overhaul this country. Democrats have been salivating over just that possibility since the Carter years. They could alter and pervert every one of our inalienable rights and change every single amendment.
THAT IS WHAT OBAMA MEANS BY CHANGE! And that is what he does not want us to know. That is why he has blocked every attempt to gain access to his past.
Lindsay:
This may help you understand – and it’s a d*mn good read!
“Shame Cubed” by Bill Whittle
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmFhYzIzMGQ1Y2FlMTA4N2M1N2VmZWUzM2Y4ZmNmYmI=
@Omar:
THANKS. IT’S A GREAT ANALYISIS OF OBAMA’S SOCIALIST GOAL OF REWRITING THE CONSTITUTION.
I HAVE READ ALL OF THE COMMENTS AND I’M FROM CHICAGO FOR ALL OF MY LIFE AND BELIEVE ME OBAMA IS A TYPICAL CHICAGO POLITICIAN.
THE OLD DAYS IT WAS THE DALEY MACHINE(FATHER RICHARD DALEY). TODAY IT IS THE SON OF RICHARD . IF YOU THINK IT IS A COINCIDENCE THAT OBAMA LIVES AROUND THE CORNER FROM FARRAHKAN, AYERS AND REZKO (CONVICTED) THEN DRINK SOME MORE KOOLAID.
MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME VERY YOUNG YOU ARE JUDGED BY THE COMPANY YOU KEEP. SOUND FAMILIAR ANYONE???? GET IT LINDSAY????
“And why do we have to have tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans when the gap between the wealthiest Americans and the poorest Americans is growing?” he wondered. Later he added, “We’re at war. Tell me one time in the history of this country when this nation was at war and we’ve enacted tax cuts, especially for the wealthiest.”
Senator John McCain in Fortune Magazine, June 28, 2008
And he criticizes Obama’s tax proposals?
In the same article, his chief strategist (Charlie Black), while speaking of the possibility of terrorist attack on U.S. soil, says “Certainly it would be a big advantage to him (McCain).”
Wow!!!!!! I didn’t have to dig back 7 years to find this………this happened 4 months ago.
Be careful what you wish for……….
@Southern Yankee:
STAY FOCUSED, WEASEL LIPS.
ACORN is a partisan criminal socialist activist fifth column element sabotaging America for Leftist candidates, and now Obama is their man. All other considerations [regarding McCain’s deficiencies, that is] are of no importance.
Southern Yankee, if you read anything but fashion magazines and soundbytes, you’d know that the quote you decided to except from the article was not from four months about, but over four years ago.
So let’s provide the facts that you either are not aware of, or choose to ignore… just like you ignore your candidate’s a socialist.
The FULL quote for you… one of the reading and research challenged.
That was then… of which most of us here supporting with McCain have been disgruntled at his johnny-come-lately support of the tax cuts. But this is now. And late is better than not and all, or increasing them…. using seriously faulty math to boot, as your guy is.
Bet you’re just gullible enough to think his economic plan is all and only about “tax cuts for 95% of Americans”, right? Ever think about what Obama’s *other* plans are going to cost? Or, what he’s not telling you, the blind faithful?
Take a walk thru reality every once in awhile. You owe that to the country before you cast a ballot. The rest of us shouldn’t have to live with idiot policies implemented by uneducated voters who become all dewy eyed over speeches and sound bytes instead of facts.
Suggest *you* be careful what you wish for. Especially when you show up here with no ammo…
Obama raising taxes on the wealthy and not the middle income and poor is far from socialism.. it’s what you righties want to term socialism but it is far from it.
btw I have checked and I will get a larger tax cut under Obama’s plan than I will under McCains plan.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
The truth will set you free…
sorry for pointing that out…
along with real clear politics now has Obama at 7.3%
with a 306 electoral college win.. before adding in whatever he wins in toss up states…
Which could be 5 out of 7 states.
McCain called for the exact same plan in 2000:
“Yet few of the McCain reforms, as valuable as they are in isolation, meet the overarching goal of marginal rate reduction. The jewel in the McCain crown is the expansion of the 15% bracket. This is a marginal rate reduction for the narrow category of people who would now pay a top rate of 15%, where they formerly paid 28%. But it is no help at either the bottom or the top. By tinkering to favor this income tax and that social objective, the McCain plan implicitly assumes that money is the government’s to distribute. The rhetoric Senator McCain has chosen to drape over his plan makes this even clearer. Indeed, in the biggest omission of all, Mr. McCain leaves intact the 39.6% top rate instituted by Bill Clinton with one-vote majorities in each house in 1993.”
source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB947715614502103961.html?mod=googlewsj
@Real American Patriot: You really think so. what about the $4 trillion that Obama needs for all his projects he wants to implement. Or him letting the Bush Tax cuts expire. If you really believe that Obama’s will lower your taxes, you need help.
Here is a little more for you to look at, all the hidden taxes that Obama is going to do
And the oncoming Recession that Obama will cause
Do not trust any poll they are all wrong and are just as biased as the MSM.
@Real American Patriot:
Sky,
The Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.
Were you smart enough to calculate those into your financial picture.
Probably not.
As for the RCP averages and their electoral projections, there are some surprises coming your way.
RAP/Sky55110, your problem is you gauge the fate of the nation’s economy and future health on your personal wallet. Then again, it’s part of the problem America has now.. the narcissistic ‘tude. ala rephrased: “ask not what you can do for your country… ask what your country and fellow taxpayers can do for you” type existence.
Congrats on being tunnel visioned and focused only on self. That’s exactly how Obama wants you to think prior to casting a ballot. You surprise me not.
Now that you’ve bought Obama’s “tax cuts for 95% of Americans” hook, line and sinker – interesting since only 60-62% approx Americans even *pay* income taxes – would you care to have a gander at the costs of his other “feel good” programs”?
His taxpayer funded education for college and preschool, perhaps? His taxpayer funded work training programs? His taxpayer funded energy programs? How about the future government departments and the staff required he will be creating? The list goes on and on… to the tune of about 177 programs and increased government departments. And the liberal-but-non-partisan Tax Policy Center has only been able to assess about 70 or so of those in their estimated costs. So their $4.3 trillion figure is low.
But then, that’s not part of what you want to talk about, right? That it’s structured to quash wealth creation instead of enhance wealth creation. Afterall, *you’ll* do better.
I swear… sometimes an idiot test prior to voting sounds really good, if not unConstitutional… But guess what. If Obama wins, I’ll revise my retirement plans and become an Obama welfare baby in my golden years. Why bother to work? I can do better to keep my income below tax repercussions, and seize that tax credit refund instead.
AD, if you will note in my post #18, you are not telling we McCain supporters anything new about his suggestions in 2000. Why do you think we were luke warm to begin with?
You will also note in the same post that McCain has changed his tax tunes. A flip flop? Yep. And most definitely a welcome flip flop. Per the same Fortune magazine that the dodohead, Southern Yankee, didn’t link to…
Yep… we’re pissed he wasn’t right to begin with. But we’ll take a correct decision late, as opposed to a promist to never be correct from Obama.
Aye Chi, Stix… you’re throwing too many water wings into the pond for those that can’t swim, ya know. Asking them to comprehend that Obama’s “tax cuts” are based on the figure it will be after they are raised by the Bush tax cuts sunsetting 2010 is waaaaaay too much to ask.
Why discuss with Real American Hater, he hates the U.S. and he’s praying for it’s downfall with the potential POTUS who is a socialist bum . Forget this guy, he is not worth it.
@Real American Patriot:
Even if Obama’s “tax cuts” for the lower income bracket were greater than McCains, with the massive unemployment, lower wages for same work (if you can get it) and inflation those sorts of plans always cause (a la Mr. Peanut) you’re calculations are for naught, because a lower tax on nothing still leaves you with nothing for the unemployed, and for the employed, a lower tax on a lower salary is still nothing to rejoice over, …unless you’re not too bright, in which case, party on dud!
@Craig:
“Forget this guy, he is not worth it.”
Target Practice
Yonason,
“Target practice”… lol
Aye said;
Of course, we all know thats how it is. For now. But seeing it in print jogged my memory on something Obama said in the debates. I distinctly heard him say he would, “rescind the Bush tax cuts immediately”. So if Barrack wins, they would not end after you filed your 2010, they would end after filing this years taxes. Double-checked it to make sure I heard it right and yes, that’s what he said. Yet now he is backpeddling saying he might “delay” rescinding the cuts if we are in a recession. Sure we believe you Barry, you would delay it just long enough for it to get your butt in office. Go on pull the other leg.
He did say that, Rocky B… prior to the Fannie/Freddie collapse. As of the beginning of Sept, he was considering “delaying” rescinding the Bush tax cuts.
Note that you can only delay these until they sunset. So his intent remains the same… rescind, unless the economic situation warrants. While that’s a plus in his favor, as I said, his intent is still to raise the taxes by not extending them.
I’ve also seen it put that Obama will do the tax cut by extending the Bush tax cuts, but only to the “middle class”.
All in all, what an Obama POTUS would do morphs daily. I can only go on his historical political philosophic record… which the media and Obama prefer to ignore.
Obama, the biggest flip-flopper of all times. I think this guy is mentally ill.
MataHarley #23:
Something of note comes by way of Kevin Stach of the Wall Street Journal: