‘Born Alive’ and ‘Partial Birth Abortion’ Barry Beckons! [Reader Post]

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pba55.jpgWe are being told that the Obama campaign plans to make a play for the Catholic vote. His margins among them are plummeting. An article by John M. Broder in the New York Times grapples anxiously with the problem. What can Obama do now? Maybe, as a [token] act of atonement, they can allow the younger Robert Casey to address the convention? (For those who don’t remember, Robert Casey Sr., governor of Pennsylvania was NOT allowed to address the convention, because he was pro-life. A lot of Catholics have not forgotten.)

The article even dares to broach the reason for the precipitous drop. In my mind, that can hardly be a question. Barack Obama has the most radical pro-abortion position in Presidential election history and the word is getting out.

How radical is it? Well for one thing, He opposed a ban on the killing of fetuses born alive during abortion in Illinois. Yes, you read that right. (This was started by the experience of a traumatized abortion nurse who was not even allowed to hold a surviving child, but instructed to put ‘it’ in the trash.) From Broder’s article, this was his rationale:

Mr. Obama has said he had opposed the bill because it was poorly drafted and would have threatened the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that established abortion as a constitutional right. He said he would have voted for a similar bill that passed the United States Senate because it did not have the same constitutional flaw as the Illinois bill.

It was “poorly drafted”. How slippery can you get? He “would have voted”; how convenient! Have you noticed this is a pattern for him? It’s a clever way of appearing to be on both sides of an issue.

The other issue is “partial birth abortion”. This is a procedure wherein a baby is partially delivered with only the head in the womb. The base of the skull is then punctured, the hole is widened, and the brain is suctioned out, collapsing the skull, while the child is still living. Even if you are “pro-choice”, you can certainly see that this is beyond words. (Maybe we can have a discussion later about cutting up or burning alive babies over the course of hours inside the womb, but that’s another matter.)

Even some of the most liberal like Hilary Clinton couldn’t bring themselves to vote against banning that. You’d have to be pretty completely sold out to the powerful abortion lobby to stand up in public and support such a grisly procedure. [The ‘powerful’, government-supported, billion-dollar plus abortion business is the largest unregulated industry in our country and their political, lobbying and legal insinuation everywhere is truly mind-boggling. The only possible reason I can see for opposing this ban is feeling beholden to their influence.]

So what is Barry’s position on this? When the Supreme Court upheld the ban on partial abortion, Obama called a special press conference to attack the court for their terrible decision. He was one of the very few. In fact, this was a rare occasion when he lost his smooth veneer and showed considerable emotion over the audacity of the Court in making such a decision. This is radical; this is unprecedented in a Presidential candidate.

How can ANY Catholic, Church-going or not, (or any thinking, feeling human being for that matter) identify with this? We wouldn’t do this to our dogs or kittens! [It is against the law to do so, unlike our children.]

As for believing Catholics, I think Denver’s Archbishop summed it up well:

Archbishop Chaput wrote that Catholics could support a politician who supported abortion only if they had a “compelling proportionate reason” to justify it. “What is a ‘proportionate’ reason when it comes to the abortion issue?” the archbishop wrote. “It’s the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life — which we most certainly will. If we’re confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed.

Catholics have always highly valued and fought for “social justice” issues, while seeing the drawbacks of both socialism and untrammeled capitalism, and rightly so. Perhaps, there is a way you, as a Catholic, could twist your self into voting for some ‘pro-choice’ candidates and be able to justify this, approximating the standard outlined by the Bishop. However, can any person, even non-believers, see how a believer could, with any self-integrity, vote for a man who has gone as far as Obama?

Lately, Barack tried what amounted to a feint in the direction of pro-life Democrats. He said he would be able to oppose late-term abortions if the woman was only doing it for reasons of “feeling blue”. However, a later, very vague retraction later showed us this was merely a feint. This was that old, by now familiar, both-sides-of-an-issue ploy that leaves us all scratching our heads. It doesn’t really matter. How can anything he says now about anything matter at all? All we know about this particular issue is, he didn’t NEED to come out with a press conference supporting Partial Birth Abortion, and HE DID. That speaks volumes.

So, for all you Catholics out there who see Barry beckoning towards you enticingly, his refined fingers rolling towards himself, pinkie through index, his smiling face wreathed with seraphic light dreamily mouthing his inviting words, please notice that dripping from those stylish fingers is innocent blood.

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wonder how he would like to be the one sucking out the baby brains, he is sick. ask him how he would fel if it was his baby, his grand child. see what he thinks then. hard to put the money where the mouth is, even if you talk from both sides of it.

mlajolie typed?, cut & pasted? :

“Barack Obama has the most radical pro-abortion position in Presidential election history and the word is getting out.”

And here is how the ‘word’ gets out.

http://www.johnmccain.com/ActionCenter/BlogInteract/BlogInteract.aspx

Try it at home kids! It’s fun and we do all the work for you!!

Wow unlike the talking pionts that the Left gets out.

How can any Catholic Justify voting for someone who will not even help the innocent child that was born alive after an abortion. It is beyond conprenhension that anyone would believe in this practice.

Obama is so beholden to the Abortion Lobby, that he can not even condemn the barbaric practice of Late Term Abortion.

Hopefully he will have Sibelus (spelling ?) as his VP. She is just as bad as he is beholden to the Abortion Lobby and she is even a Catholic.

And I did not even need the TalkingPoints from the McaCain site, I live in Illinois and know the true Obama

Arthurstone,

My name is Mark Lajoie. I wrote this myself this morning immediately after reading the New York Times article I cited. I did not check John McCain’s site for talking points. I checked my own heart, mind and conscience and my own history in the pro-life movement to inform my comments. I teach Religious Studies and I have a Masters in Theology, but I don’t think I even needed that experience to be quite capable of responding to what I read in the article. Any human being with a heart and a brain should be quite up to it, I should think. Do you have any response to what I said?

The good thing is the polls are moving our way, Roman Catholics favor Mac now by about 14 points according to a new Zogby poll. (see my blog) In the Midwest HRC destroyed him by about 40 points amongst Catholics…(Penn., Ohio, etc)

B. Hussein Obama’s position on abortion would make even Margaret Sanger blush!!!

It’s basically kill here, kill now, kill always!

You have a great site…

Hussein O has already stated his stand on abortion in his family. He would not want to restrict his daughters right to ‘not have a child they didn’t want’. Some such rot as that. Anyway, in effect he would deliver his daughter(s) to the baby ‘slaughter house’. He said it a few months ago. Recorded out there somewhere.

Mark lajoie wrote:

Do you have any response to what I said?

Yes.

I am glad those are your own words. Thanks for clearing that up.

That said you distort Obama’s position:

“Barack Obama has the most radical pro-abortion position in Presidential election history and the word is getting out.”

and:

“It was “poorly drafted”. How slippery can you get? He “would have voted”; how convenient! Have you noticed this is a pattern for him? It’s a clever way of appearing to be on both sides of an issue.”

Nope.

I can’t find an instance of Obama giving people the ‘right’ to kill their children. Opponents of the Illinois bill said the legislation was unnecessary as the Illinois criminal code unequivocally prohibits killing children, and said that it posed a threat to abortion rights. Partial birth abortions amount to something like .2% of all abortions performed in this country and I have to trust that women in the unfortunate of choosing this procedure are making the correct decision. A decision only they can make.

I agree in freedom of choice and I believe abortion is a woman’s right.

And that said I for one have had quite enough of religious groups, Catholic or other, inserting themselves into our politics.

Arthurstone,

You need to read up on your history. Obama and only a few were against the bill and he had is shelved and took it off the table. He was the onew that killed the bill over the objection of most of the legislature in Illinois.

Stop reading the Obama cool aid. Do not talk about stuff you do not know about. Look up the history, I am not doing the work for you.

If it was illegal why do you have stories of nurses in Crying rooms holding babies until they died. Also look that one up yourself. As before you need to look at other stuff than the Obama Cool aid. It was a bill that when a child is born after an abortion is alive, the doctors wold not try and save the babies life. Nothing about killing children, or at least what we call children, to the Left they are just a bunch of cells.

I did not and never get anything from McCain’s site. Others might but I am not going to carry his water for him. But I will do my best to not get Obama elected.

Seems Artie is sputtering furiously trying to distract readers from the disturbing truths contained in this post.

I’m surprised Artie isn’t bragging about Obama’s stand on infanticide.

Why not display some dead fetuses in jars in your gallery Artie? I bet that would be a big hit among the liberal set that drop their money in your pocket instead of supporting women’s choices to carry their babies to term, deliver them and put them up for adoption.

Perhaps you could toss a crucifix into the glass jar along with the fetus and win a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts.

stix1972 raved:

‘If it was illegal why do you have stories of nurses in Crying rooms holding babies until they died. Also look that one up yourself. As before you need to look at other stuff than the Obama Cool aid. It was a bill that when a child is born after an abortion is alive, the doctors wold not try and save the babies life. Nothing about killing children, or at least what we call children, to the Left they are just a bunch of cells.’

Abortion is a woman’s right.

Mike added:

Perhaps you could toss a crucifix into the glass jar along with the fetus and win a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts.

Mike, you need to get out more. Your material is stale.

So letting a living baby is alright with you.

Man, I cna not believe anyone cold be so callous other than Obama partonage to the Abortion Lobby.

Religion totally aside, what in the world can possibly justify the horror of late-term abortions, at the very least? So much of the abortion debate has NOTHING to do with religion: what does the “right to life” in the Declaration mean; or what is human life; or personhood, or how does natural law theory, which forms the warp and woof of our national rationale apply. I could go on and on. This debate cannot be fluffed off as ‘oh, that’s just religious people trying to tell us what to do.’ A nation that tolerates such behavior, is it a problem? My concern about it goes far beyond my advocacy for a particular candidate at a particular time. It’s a crucial question for human history and it will remain so long after this election is done.

http://mlajoie2.blogspot.com/

Screw it all I am voting for Socks

moar funny pictures

Abortion is a woman’s right.

The end.

Arthurstone:

The people commenting on this blog say they are religious and sometimes Christian and sometimes Catholic. If you get tired of hearing about their right to be whatever they choose to be, do as they say, get used to it. Or, you can think of them as your worst nightmare; voters.

http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/nextgenblog/

“I agree in freedom of choice and I believe abortion is a woman’s right.”

You can argue all day long on the abortion stance on “when life begins” but come on …
you are talking PARTIAL BIRTH.

The brain is fully developed and functioning, Everything else is ready as well.
Just because it hasn’t been pulled all the way out doesn’t make this human being null and void.

You are talking about murder. Nothing less.

“Abortion is a woman’s right.”

So, if your mom decided to abort now, can she kill you? I mean, it is just belated abortion?
Its HER RIGHT! Maybe she feels she made a mistake (or might if she saw what you posted here).

What about the rights of the unborn child that late in the stage? How can you logically AND MORALLY argue that at 8/9 months, it isn’t a life. I’m just dying to hear this.

Keep spinning man, keep twisting.

“The people commenting on this blog say they are religious and sometimes Christian and sometimes Catholic”

O.B. claims he isn’t muslim and attended Wright’s church for how long, 22 years? So, he claims Christianity as a religion and favors partial birth abortions?

I’d love to hear him correlate that stance with scripture. He can’t.

Anyone can sit and point fingers at anyone else here claiming religion but the chosen one has everyone’s eyes glazed over like a zombie. But that is OK. A little hypocrisy never hurt anyone.

So even though an abortion went wrong and the baby is live and crying and in all sense a healthy baby, it is alright to let it die.

I am scared for this country if people like this get into power and control the country. Amazing. This has nothing to do with religion at all, it is humanity. If we are so callous and let children die like this I am very afraind that our country is already lost. we already do not have enough babies to support our country, so we have illegals come in because of low birth rates.

We are going to hell in a hand basket and hopefully we can get it turned around. We have already let the Socialist take over most of the country, and now we have peope thuis cruel and callous. FDR and the Communist that infiltrasted his administration have won. We are slowly going to be Animal Farm. “Every one is equal, but the few” We are going to hang oursleves, they do not need to invade us.

A democracy cannot survive as a permanent form of government. It can last only until its citizens discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority (who vote) will vote for those candidates promising the greatest benefits from the public purse, with the result that a democracy will always collapse from loose fiscal policies, always followed by a dictatorship

Thirty years ago there may not have been effective methods of contraceptives. Now there are dozens of effective ways to prevent conception. Some are temporary and some are permanent. However, they all require prior planning and responsibility. If a woman does not want to have a child, she dosn’t have to. What possible reason could there be for a late term abortion except total irresponsibility.

This is “Arthur’s” compassion and tolerance:

Mike’s America,

I can’t thank you enough for visual confirmation of the truth. A picture is worth a thousand words. If only everyone were required to see this before casting a ballot.

Sickening.

You’re welcome mlajoie2.

It’s a sad reality that Democrats care more about political power than they do about answering to a higher power which requires we care and love even those too young or sick to speak and ask for it.

I have added it to my blog Grizzly Groundswell and Reclaim Conservatism

Maybe Artie should get the facts before he spouts out the cool aid from the Obama camp.

And Artie I am sick of George Soros, a foreigner inserting himself into our politics. He is the man behind Moron.org and many of the Anti-War groups.

Abortion is not a woman’s right. A woman chooses at conception-same as the man. When there is no opportunity to choose at conception (as in rape cases), then there ought to be provisions, but I COMPLETELY disagree that a woman gets to choose after conception, but the father (half the DNA) only gets to choose at conception is simply wrong. It’s (if nothing else) an unfair two-party agreement. Moreover, when it comes to partial birth abortions, if the baby is born, and alive, it cannot be killed (“aborted” or “redeployed” to the trash). Even further, after the second trimester, a baby is a sentient being that responds uniquely and deliberately to outside sounds and influences and has its own personality.

I cannot believe partial birth abortions is even an issue.

I also can’t believe that deciding to kill a baby was defended in any way by Obama or any other “open-minded”/”open-armed” person (“liberal” used to mean open-minded and open-armed….not aquiescent to killing babies that are born).

“Abortion is a woman’s right”, you say?

Arthurstone, I pray that you will never know the pain of wanting a child with all your heart and soul and not being able to have one.

I speak as a woman who knows. I had, not one, but two abortions when I was younger. My explanation (not excuse!) is that I was very depressed during those years (as in clinically depressed and under treatment, not Obama’s “feeling blue”) and felt that I would make a bad mother, and my boyfriend in both cases did not feel ready to be a father.

What I should have done in those early years was either not to have relations (sorry for mealy-mouthedness, I’m behind a firewall) or to give up the child for adoption. Now, in early middle age, my husband and I are finally wise enough and emotionally healthy enough to be good parents, and we cannot have children of our own. (Of course we have other options, but that’s beside the point I’m trying to make now.)

For a woman to carry a baby almost to term and then kill it with a partial-birth abortion is obscene to me, especially when one phone call could find that baby a loving adoptive mother and father. I would beg such a woman to let me adopt her baby right out of the operating room.

Having those two abortions — the two worst decisions I ever made. As heartbroken as I am, I admit it’s karmic justice for me to be infertile now, having blown what turned out to be my only two chances at motherhood for reasons that now seem to me to be selfish and short-sighted. You can argue that it isn’t so and wouldn’t be so for all women, but I’m not alone among women in feeling this way — not by a long shot.

One more thing: Google “Asherman’s Syndrome”.
Ever seen this bumper sticker? “Abortion leaves one dead, one wounded.” From my own experience, I agree.

“An article by John M. Broder in the New York Times grapples anxiously with the problem. What can Obama do now?

Lie.
____________________________________________
The truth is, …

ABORTION IS ALMOST ALWAYS MURDER!

O’Bomber supports it, as do the “peaceful” Leftist jerks who falsely accuse the Right of being violent.

It is the Left that has always been violent, and their brown-shirts are actively resorting to intimidation at this very moment.

Anonymous Female typed:

“Having those two abortions — the two worst decisions I ever made.”

That’s your experience. And I’m sorry.

I know women who consider having an abortion one of the the best decisions they have made.

Yonason typed:

ABORTION IS ALMOST ALWAYS MURDER!

‘Almost always’?

Either is or isn’t.

Clearly it isn’t.

I cannot believe how stupid some of you people are. Women do NOT choose this procedure – which is deliberately mis-named by anti-choice forces – on a WHIM! They do it when they are faced w/life-threatening problems! Abortion is not murder, no matter how many religious fanatics want to lie that it is – and pretending that it’s the Left who is fascist on this matter is an ever bigger lie than the very term you all are using for the procedure. The Left isn’t the one bombing/shooting the opposition – that’s YOUR side.

Name me one doctor that will say that late term abortion is medically needed, and I will eat crow. But I have never ever heard that late term abortion is medically neede by any doctor I know or any Doctor that my dad knows. He is a delegate for the Illinois AMA and they think it is a barbaric practice and do not agree with it. The onlu people that agree with it are abortion doctors and Planned Parenthood which was a racist organization that thought it was a good idea to have all lesser people get abortions to not let them survive. look up Margaret Sanger.

stix1972 typed:

‘Name me one doctor that will say that late term abortion is medically needed, and I will eat crow.’

“Medically needed’? There’s a tortured phrase meaning almost nothing.

Notwithstanding, with all respect to you and your father the decision as to what is needed is that of the woman.

And that’s as it should be.

Scott Malensek typed:

‘Abortion is not a woman’s right. A woman chooses at conception-same as the man. When there is no opportunity to choose at conception (as in rape cases), then there ought to be provisions, but I COMPLETELY disagree that a woman gets to choose after conception, but the father (half the DNA) only gets to choose at conception is simply wrong. ‘

So an unmarried woman would have to submit to the wishes of her boyfriend if she decided she didn’t want to go to term?

Them days is done Scott. Reproductive rights are here to stay.

“Marsha Garrison, a professor at Brooklyn Law School, stated that U.S. courts acknowledge “that embryo is in the woman’s body, it is within her and can’t be separated from her, so it’s not just her decision-making about whether to bear a child, it’s about her body”

So abortion on demand and used for birth control is ok with you.

as I said before we are going to hell in a hand bucket.

We as a nation are screwed if more people like this get into power. We already do not have enough babies to sustain our population. We are already in decline and this is only adding to this.

and did you actually watch that movie at all. This to you is totally acceptable???? If so, i feel sorry for you. You have no humanity or compassion.

How has our country become so course and selfish that using abortion as birth control is ok?? this has got to stop. Womne that have more than 1 abortion as Susan can attest is dentrimental to later health. Not only not being able to have children, there are many other medical problems that can occur, not withstanding the mental health afterwords.

“Medically needed’? There’s a tortured phrase meaning almost nothing.

So a medical doctor can not say that there is no reason for a late term abortion ???? Have you ever been around doctors, nurses and other medical professionals?????

The wholesale invention of a “right to abortion” twisted out of a “right to privacy”, was precisely that: an invention. It flew in the face of thousands of years of consistent thought. This new reified idea of abstract, limitless rights flies in the face of reality. Rights have always been seen as gifts balanced by responsibilities. Roe vs. Wade cannot stand the test of time any more than Dred Scott or Plessy. (Ask MLK’s niece how she feels.) Any “brave new world” involving the torture and degradation of our children – or any other ‘type’ of human can only be justified by non-realistic abstractions. Sanger, Stalin, Pol Pot and the Nazis thought they were certainly the wave of the future. No, they are, as Solzhenitsyn and Reagan saw, condemned to be on the scrapheap of history. “Love is stronger than death.”

Whew. Scrapheap of history. Pol Pot. Not enough babies.

Women have the right to make their own choices regarding contraception and abortion.

And that won’t change anytime soon

Despite your fervent hopes.

Arthurstone,

You keep repeating only that this right exists. As Lincoln said, “Calling a dog’s leg a tail don’t mean he has five legs”. Please explain where this abstract right came from? Can you explain for all of us how this right fits into your world view? Is your morality ‘If I can do it, than I should do it’ or ‘the ends justify the means’? What standards guide you; how does it fit with everything else you believe?

If your argument is ‘everybody’s doing it and it doesn’t look like it will end’, this is the informal fallacy of logic called argumentum ad populum. Everybody was doing things in Nazi Germany, most had come to believe it was right and there seemed no end of it come soon at first. Did that make it right?

“Arthur” believes in infanticide on demand. Meanwhile, by his very actions he and his ilk mock the choice many women make to carry unwanted babies to term and put them up for adoption.

Pretty clear from his constant sputtering on this issue that he’d rather make noise than make sense.

Mike-

Choice Mike. A woman wants to keep her child. Fine. Carry to term & give up for adoptio. Fine. Rather not see a pregnancy to term. Fine.

Her body. Her choice.

And MLK’s niece’s views matter not at all to me.

Arthurstone,

WHY do I have this choice? Where does it come from? Can I kill my child one hour after it’s born? Why then and not before? How is this any different from other “reasons” people have found to kill groups of humans?

Germany started with abortion, the first to legalize it after Soviet Russia. Then they went to euthanizing the mentally handicapped, then the old, then the infirm. And then…well, you know what happened. Words mean things. Rationale leads somewhere. It’s not enough to just keep repeating, ‘it’s a right, it’s a right’ and have no idea why or what are the ramifications for humanity.

Should one of my “choices” or “rights” be to kill the innocent? What’s my rationale? What are the ramifications? I have the “right” to free speech, but is that right “absolute”; do I have the “right” to yell fire in a crowded room? Of course not! Where does my right to life conflict with your freedom of choice? Is it only the voiceless or powerless whose right to life means nothing in the face of my freedom to choose? You’re beginning to be a real bother to me; I have to support you, feed you, put up with you. No more! I’m going to ‘terminate’ you, to ‘solve’ the problem you are. I have the choice. I have the right. Why? because….I SAY SO.

You think slavery is wrong? Don’t have a slave! It’s my choice! It’s my right! Dred Scott SAYS I can do it. It’s clear it’s going nowhere soon and there’s nothing you can do about it. So shut up and go away….Sound familiar???

Stoner Stammered —

Yonason typed:

ABORTION IS ALMOST ALWAYS MURDER!

‘Almost always’?

Either is or isn’t.

Clearly it isn’t.

It looks like my response really didn’t get posted due to system glitching. Oh, well, it was…

In the event one has to abort in order to save the life of the mother it is a case of self defense, and is hence not murder. Perhaps one could consider abortion in cases of rape, as well but if it can’t be considered “self defense” it is murder.

“Arthur” believes allowing a woman to choose to let her live born baby die is a “choice” she should be allowed to make.

So what about Andrea Yates who drowned her five children. Was it her “choice” to do that or is there some age limit for the child you would like to impose.

A baby that lives one hour outside the womb can be left to die but a child who lives longer is considered murder?

Only “Arthur” would defend the indefensible.

*ahem*

Now who’s feeding the moonbats, Mike?

ZEIG HEINZ, ZERO-BOMBERS

A woman who has an unwanted baby and kills it immediately on being born goes to jail for murder. If the same thing happens in an abortion clinic, with the Dr., doing the killing, it’s perfectly legal, as per the pro-death Demoncrats like Obama.

And don’t think they will stop there. Soon, where they aren’t already, they will be euthanizing the “usless” old people (or just not bothering to keep them alive), and then anyone who they consider “useless.” Then, those who are “dangerous” will be next on their list, a-al Stalin.

Ain’t “change” great?!.

That’s your experience. And I’m sorry.

I know women who consider having an abortion one of the the best decisions they have made.

Did they ever tell you why they felt that way? If that was some years ago, do you suppose they still feel that way now?

And don’t think they will stop there. Soon, where they aren’t already, they will be euthanizing the “usless” old people (or just not bothering to keep them alive), and then anyone who they consider “useless.” Then, those who are “dangerous” will be next on their list, a-al Stalin.

The next step: flaying conservatives alive and making lampshades out of their skins!

OBAMA KILLED THE BILL

…so he could allow the killing of live-born babies.

…and he’s LIED about it for the last 4 years!!!