UPDATE:
It appears that ABC News’ Political Punch Blog has tried to confirm this story, and is claiming that Sen Obama’s story is true (though not told directly to him, but through a staffer). Readers are encouraged to not only read the ABC News comments, but the comments to the contrary posted here at Flopping Aces. They can be informative regardless of political orientation. -Scott
END UPDATE
Me thinks this little blurb will come back to bite Obama in the ass. Just my guess:
OBAMA: You know, I’ve heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon — supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.
And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition, they didn’t have enough Humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
First of all, and correct me if I’m wrong on this Chris (seeing as how I’ve been out for 18 years) but the military rarely splits a platoon across theaters, maybe companies but platoons? Nope…..Secondly, Captains don’t lead platoons, they lead companies. Thirdly, on the weapons thing it may very well because the AK is just a damn good desert weapon that rarely jams PLUS having a weapon that sounds like the enemies and doesn’t sound like one of our M16’s is probably a pretty good tactic. They may be grabbing the AK’s but I’m doubting its because they are not getting supplied. Fourth, if they are so underequipped how in the hell are they able to capture all these weapons in the first place? Just going up and asking the Taliban for em?
I’m gonna call shenanigans (codeword for he is lying through his teeth) on these charges by Obama.
Oh, and one last note. It’s Congress that gives the money to the Military Senator Obama….not the Commander in Chief.
UPDATE
Great comments left by Chris and Caelestis who is in Iraq right now. Caelestis:
Now as far as personnel there is a thing called cross leveling where people that are not deploying are brought into a unit so that the unit can deploy with full strength. I know I just watched it happen in Hawaii with the 2nd SBCT 25th ID (I’ll explain what all those capitalized letters mean later Mr. Obama)….What you are describing doesn’t happen Mr. Obama because if it did happen, there would be an 0-6 and an 0-5 and a bunch of 0-4’s and especially one extremely pissed off 0-3 who would have screamed loud enough that even the NY Times could have heard them over your droning speeches to notice…..A Brigade commander that let something like this happen would have lost total respect and honor from every officer in his brigade,
and Chris:
Now as for weapons. No kidding we use the enemy’s when we can. The same is true for the initial invasion of Iraq. Ammunition is always a sought commodity, but there was no shortage of transports getting it to Afghanistan. HOWEVER, in the midst of a fire fight, ammo runs low and many Soldiers/Marines know how to use the AK series (AKM/AK-74 and SVD). Since a majority of US Military Members are gun owners/shooters and many are NRA members, we tend to learn all we can about weapons and teach those who are not hunters/shooters in our ranks. A light infantry unit can only carry so much ammo on extended missions. Air resupply is not always available while in combat (helicopters draw enemy fire for some reason) and ground resupply is not always able to get up the goat trails that comprise Afghanistan.
UPDATE II
I see the lefty reporter Jack Tapper from ABC has wrote a piece refuting this post. Apparently he talked to the man in question and we find out that this all happened 5 years ago. For the rest I will use Chris as my source seeing as how he is a active duty Major in the Army:
No corraborating evidence besides allegedly talking to the (former?) officer? Further more, no mention that M2s, MK-19s, and HMMWVs are not part of the 10th MOUNTAIN Division’s standard MTOE at Rifle Co level in 2003. They are light infantry… LIGHT means they walk. M2s and MK-19s were reserved for higher level weapons platoons, not rifle platoons, and those were man-packed. This means the weapons are taken apart and moved.
On the parts issue, with the influx of heavier weapons, the units probably did have trouble at first taking care of the “new” heavy guns. The M2 is not in production any more and all parts come from rebuilds or stocks. They also need more specialized tools and care than an M4/M16/M240/M249. The M2HB I had on my M1A1 was manufactured in 1943 for instance and in 1997 would have been down a long time if damaged due to lack of funding. This person said they had no problems with the organic weapons they had, but with weapons which the Army added from experience in theater.
Then we have the Pentagon refuting Tapper’s anonymous “Captain”:
The Pentagon on Friday cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a debate with rival Hillary Clinton.
During the face-to-face encounter on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain whose unit had served in Afghanistan without enough ammunition or vehicles.
Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was “to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief,” President George W. Bush.
“I find that account pretty hard to imagine,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
“Despite the stress that we readily acknowledge on the force, one of the things that we do is make sure that all of our units and service members that are going into harm’s way are properly trained, equipped and with the leadership to be successful,” he said.
Whitman’s remarks were unusual as the Pentagon often declines to talk about comments from political campaigns.
Of course with the “Captain” remaining anonymous its hard to come right out and say the man is lying since the Pentagon doesn’t have the particulars such as the dates, units, and other important info. With him remaining in the shadows its easier for Barack and his pal Tapper to just say “believe us” because well, just because. Which leads to this great rundown from Scott:
Some guy told some staffer who told Obama who couldn’t even repeat the story accurately. That’s the reality, the truth, and the facts.
UPDATE III
Remember Obama said this:
They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
According to Tapper and his anonymous “Captain:
“The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.
Which jives with what all of us bloggers were saying last night. They were getting those weapons because they are good desert fighting steel. NOT because of a lack of weapon supplies which is the opposite of what Obama was alleging.
Allah links to the AP with this which should be pointed out:
Obama said the platoon was supposed to have 39 soldiers. A platoon does not have to consist of 39, but can have between 16 to 40 soldiers, according to standard Army unit organization. It is also commanded by a lieutenant and not a captain.
Finally Vets for Freedom just issued this press release:
Vets for Freedom questions the recent comments by Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill) in the Democratic debate last night, in which he stated that American troops were “capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than get equipped by our current Commander in Chief”.
“Yet again Senator Obama has demonstrated the loose grip he holds on the reality of these conflicts,” said Vets for Freedom State Captain, and Afghanistan Army veteran Daniel Bell. “Senator Obama’s comments are insulting not only to those who have served and are still serving in Afghanistan but to all who serve in the armed forces. I can attest from my first hand experience that these comments are incredulous and that we were supplied all the tools necessary to complete our missions.”
He continued “His statements last night assert that he lacks the necessary knowledge to make serious judgments on military matters, that he is prone to dangerous exaggeration, and that he is grossly unaware of the facts on the ground. I call on other veterans of Afghanistan to respond to these ridiculous allegations and to remind Senator Obama that it is the sacrifice of those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan that allows him to so freely speak in this manner.”
But I guess the main point of this whole thing should be the fact that Democrats, especially Democrats like Obama, wanted to cut funding to the troops and run like cowards from the fight but now want to use lack of equipment as some sort of attack against a war they wanted to defund anyway…..and THATS why they should be elected!
Yeah….
The part that the Messiah can’t spin away is that this is another case of the US military adapting and overcoming. It’s been going on since our inception; adaptibility has survived Presidents and wars, and is just as strong as ever. So while he votes against our funding, then talks of how the CiC can’t get us adequate equipment, talking out of both sides of his mouth so hard he’s coming in in Stereo, those of us in uniform just laugh, find what works, and keep going.
UPDATE IV
No one says it like Ace:
Tapper thinks his job is done if he merely talks to a guy making these claims; but perhaps he should actually do some actual reporting and find out if our army is being denied key ammunition in training.
The left has a habit of claiming victory when some small detail is corroborated. Obama fucking claimed our troops HAD TO — not chose to on occasion — capture the very weapons with which they were expected to fight the enemy.
Tapper gets a guy claiming “Yeah, once we took a captured Soviet heavy machine gun and used it on a truck.”
Then they say, “Ah-ha! You owe Obama an apology! He was Right!”
They did the exact same thing with Beauchamp.
Beauchamp claims that a guy picks up a child’s skull from a mass grave and dances around his fellow soldiers while wearing the skull as a fucking yarmulke.
One soldier says, “We found some bones, they looked like animal bones but maybe they were human.”
The left claims: Ah-ha! TNR had it exactly right! Apologize!
Really? What about that fucking shit you mentioned about wearing the child’s skull as a yarmulke while dancing around your commanding officer like Pennywise the clown?
Same thing here, it seems. Obama spins out a ludicrous exaggeration, some claims are found to support (if you credit the claim) a much more plausible version of the claims he made, which are as far from the original as the lightning bug is from the lightning, and… we’re wrong, we need to apologize.
Okay, whatever.
See author page
Oh, and for all of you complaining that the Captain didn’t go “on the record”…what do you think would happen to an officer who DID go on the record with comments such as these? Anyone here remember LTC Tony Herbert?
Actually, I have served in Brigades, Battalions, CORPS and above CORPs since we finally decided to respond to repeated attacks by the islamofascists.
I am in communication with people in Afghanistan daily, though Iraq is more my focus.
Wesmorgan1,
LTC Tony Herbert wrote his book decades ago. How about the FBI agent who wrote “Unlimited Access” or the offcier who who “Deriliction of Duty”? Now, what about the Haditha Marines and their treatment? No one on the left believed them. Many still do not, yet many of them were aquitted when it was found out they were set up.
Oh and leftists, we got the link. You may want to read into the comments section of it where readers refute things withing the “factchecker” report.
You all have lived in a No Fact Zone echo chamber for so long you cannot admit you are wrong. You may not LIKE the truth – in this case that the candidate you do not support was correct in his criticism of the war effort – but you cannot deny the facts.
The issue isn’t merely capturing weapons and equipment but DEPLOYMENT. Last time I checked, Dubya commanded the armed forces of the USA. Am I mistaken? Should a junior senator from Illinois have input into deployment decisions?
It is clear that the FUBAR situation that is Iraq is the responsibility of our current president and his shortcomings as a leader.
By the way Chris. I ‘heard from’ my mother last night. She left a five minute message on my voicemail about her knee surgery. I didn’t talk to her directly. We didn’t converse. She told me an anecdote about her life which I then retold to my wife after prefacing it by saying . .. I heard from my mother . . . .
Get it? It’s not that hard. No logical inconsistency except that which you choose to manufacture.
Cheers.
That’s IT! No WAY am I gonna vote for George Bush this fall!
“It is clear that the FUBAR situation that is Iraq is the responsibility of our current president and his shortcomings as a leader.”
Speaking of Capts and their stories; http://www.floppingaces.net/category/jamil-hussein-story/
Hey Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF,
While I would defend your right to speak your mind, I think that it’s disgusting and dishonorable for you to equate Osama with Obama. I would think that someone that claims to have served in our Armed Forced would find such a tactic foul, and below them.
Enjoy your day “MSgt (ret), USAF”
Hey jer, dishonorable? Are you freakin kidding me? Barrack Hussein Obama is dishonorable in his using this third hand account of a situation which occurred what 5 years ago. Barrack Hussein Obama is dishonorable as he voted NO on the funding bill while our TROOPS WERE IN HARMS WAY, in essence creating this supposed situation. Who the hell did Barrack Hussein Obama think under funding the troops was going to hurt, President Bush? Barrack Hussein Obama is as dishonorable and corrupt as any seasoned congressional whore. He has a charles manson like ability to hypnotize the leftard morons with his commanding speaking voice, spewing platitudes and empty rhetoric intended to satisfy the leftie liberals need to feel good about themselves. He has no ability to lead the greatest military in the world as he has shown by his total disregard for their safety and success. As for calling him osama/obama, well I’m only repeating what teddy the swimmer kennedy called him. So sue me. My service to this country doesn’t prevent me from speaking my mind or saying whatever the hell I want. At least I defended that right, what have you done?
Back on topic, was the unit this “absolute moral authority source” assigned to active, Guard, or Reserve? I would think that if it was the latter two, the dividing up of the manpower would make sense.
I was in the 3d ACR when I was active duty, and spent time in Baghdad, Tal Afar and Mosul. In OIF I, we were at more than 100% of our MTOE, but we deployed for OIF III with a little more than half that*. My fiancee, who was slated to ETS in July ’07, is now back in Iraq with the 101st and stop-lossed through mid 2009. Her platoon deployed with about 50% MTOE, and about 25% of critical MOSes. They’re slated to be up to about 80% later this month, after four months in theater.
When I got off active duty, the Army owed me about $3400, which I declined to stick around to collect, because I had orders retroactively rescinded because the Army ran out of money. They would eventually have payed me back, of course, but they’re running so close to the wire these days, all sort of critical tasks get delayed or just not done.
Basically, this story doesn’t sound like hogwash to me, and I’ve heard enough like it to feel I’m not alone. I also don’t understand why posters on here seem to think everyone in the military “supports the war” – I’m not sure what exactly this is supposed to mean, but if it just means we all want to “win”, then of course we do, but so does pretty much everyone. If that’s to mean that everyone favors indefinite extension of OIF, then that’s just incorrect. It’s not an accident that Obama and Paul’s campaigns have gotten the most military donations.
Personally, I think we should either pay what it would *really* take to get serious about this thing, or start winding it down. It sounds to me like Obama wants to wind down Iraq and get serious about Afghanistan. I hope that’s not just blowing smoke.
*This was possible because they counted a lot of “dead weight” on the MTOE that they didn’t the first time, so on paper we were close to full strength but about a third of those weren’t mission-usable.
Sad that you cover your dishonor by heaping on yourself more of it.
Hey “Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF”, this is your country. It includes the left and the right. Blacks, Arabs, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, …” It includes Barack Obama.
Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF. Love it. Or leave it.
Just a note on the Factchecker:
Jack Tapper is the author of Down and Dirty: The Plot to Steal the Presidency
So I have to wonder how unbiased he is.
Jerry,
Does that include the leftists at ANSWER/Move-On “anti-war” rallies that hold signs stating “Death to Israel”, “Death to Zionism”, “We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers”, and a multitude of others?
Somehow I do not see the tolerance in the left at all, yet in the “Bush Police State” these groups, along with “Iraqi Vetrens Against the War”, who are violating US Code by trying to get Sodiers to oppose the government in time of conflict, are allowed to exist.
And yes, Jerry, I fight and lost friends for your right to be a leftist who is blind to the clear and present danger islamofascism (or the Islamic Holy Warriors, or whatever label you wish) poses.
Have fun storming the blog and read some other articles in the Archive like “Why Iraq” which I wrote while deployed.
There is a blog for everything, including equipment debriefings for the conflict in Afganistan.
http://www.geocities.com/usarmyafghangearproblems/
I would say from that blog the officer that Obama talked to didn’t adapt well. I don’t know how he made captain unless he is now a desk jockey.
Hot air hugh?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
nato wrote:
Regarding Ron Paul supposedly getting the most military donations:
Sad that you cover your dishonor by heaping on yourself more of it.
Jerry, I’m just not getting what the above means. I have never dishonored myself or my country. Can you say the same?
Hey “Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF”, this is your country. It includes the left and the right. Blacks, Arabs, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, …” It includes Barack Obama.
Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF. Love it. Or leave it.
Jerry, again what the hell does the above have to do with my response to your criticsm of me calling the pinhead osama/obama? As for loving it or leaving it jer, I would give you the same advice. Plus the addendum that if YOU LOVE IT, defend it and stand up for those who DO, instead of lapping up the constant lies and slander the left, including the democrat party leadership, has heaped on our brave men and women protecting your whiney asses. Screw osama/obama. As stated previously he is incompetent and full of nothing but platitudes. He’s done nothing during his tenure in congress and is trying to sell his message of hope and change as if he created the concepts. Hey if it seems to good to be true and all that. Later jer. Have a good day.
And global warming is a big liberal hoax.
Did any of you people even graduate high school?
“It is clear” ” Iraq is the responsibility of our current anti American leftists who as Senators and Representatives have refused to fund the war properly. The American leftist Senator who carries the latest classified intelligence to Syria:
“ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I’ll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.”
Article
The US leftist senators and Representatives who refuse to provide the funding necessary for our troops to carry out the mission. Both current Democrat candidates voted against the current funding package.
The MSM who print the enemy propaganda without even bothering to check it. The protestors
blocking crossing at ports to block military suppies from getting to American forces. The Anti American protestors who block entrance to recruiting stations. The list goes on and on, seemingly forever.
Gregory,
Thanks for the weblink. I remember seeing printed out AARs from Afghanistan and Iraq but that link added more research. I cannot justly describe the enormous efforts put into Afghanistan by the PEOs in making sure we have the best equipment for the AOR.
Doug Watts,
Yes, graduate college also with an Engineering degree and masters work. “Man Made” global warming is a hoax, and a very profitable one for people like Al Gore (and his zinc mine and petroleum stocks). The Earth, however, warms and cools in cycles which have been properly measured and does so without human intervention. “Man Made Global Warming” has become a religion/cult among the left.
And not to say that Obama is not a great speaker. He is. He is also a nice guy from all accounts. However, his views on foreign affairs, defense, and burdening the US with the failures of socialized medicine, higher taxes, and others mean I will not vote for him.
The Pentagon, in a rare public remark on a political campaign, doubts Sen Obama’s statements.
Link To Story
I wonder if I should go to the left’s blogs and copy paste this as I drive by attack?
Yeah Chris, sadly it includes the dipshits at Answer. Why do you think I am a leftist, just because I disagree with a douchebag like you and Theresa? So yeah, our country includes all types of people. People with their heads on straight like me, and dipshits like those at answer and floppyaces.
It’s one thing to refer to them as dipshits, and another to refer to them as some sort of people not worthy of America or not worthy of our Bill of Rights or our defense.
Thank you for your service. Is your service any different from that of the millions of Democrats that have served our country? Apart from your demands we bow down to your enormous monster penis, I don’t think so.
So now I am a “douchebag” because I am an Army Officer who opposes Obama and thinks his story is full of holes? Wow… I’ll have to go cry now.
Thank you for proving what a fool you are. And I demand nothing from you, nor has anyone in the US military EVER demanded anything.
Excuse me while I do not bow down to you and ignore the rest of your infantilism.
ChrisG, would love to go with you if/when you redeploy, but age, weight and cigarette smoking probably precludes that. As for eyesight, that’s what they make scopes for! Maybe it’s best I stay here and keep an eye on your six.
Theresa, those who have never served will never know the “feeling” that comes with it.
A Veteran – whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The “United States of America”, for an amount of “up to and including my life.”
That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
– Author Unknown
Tom
Time to weigh in again, since the story is 5 years old (at least), then how could the troops have been diverted to OIF since OIF hadn’t started 5 years ago………..Of course it sounds like they were PCSed, if that is the case, then Obama is being devious and coy. PCS’ are quite normal and if the unit in question had already deployed once, a 30% turnover is pretty low by Army standards.
Secondly the officer backs up the claim that they never needed ammo from the enemy which is the crux of Obama’s tale….Here is the money quote from Tapper’s article “The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.”
Obama’s quote was this…..”You know, I’ve heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon — supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon,” he said. “Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq. And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition, they didn’t have enough humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.”
So basically Obama is objecting to normal PCS movements, soldiers adapting to the mission on the fly, and the fact that one platoon did not have enough training rounds………..
I gotta tell you the chow hall talk is turning to politics over here and people are afraid of Obama, Mccain at least understands us. I would say I’m shocked that a stunt like this was attempted by the Obama camp, but I’m not shocked, since the general public doesn’t understand the military, it is quite easy for someone like Obama to tell a half truth like this…………
Reading Comprehension wasn’t taught to you whining pukes I suppose:
Prior to deployment the Captain — then a Lieutenant — took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but — in ones and twos — 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.
Pretty clear he was a LT at the time…you all are a bunch of idiots anyway. Say hello to President Obama you losers!
I’m going to smack the next brain dead lefty trolls who links to the Tapper piece and says some variation of case closed.
We read it, we linked it. We still have questions and you know the reasons why. Can you say Beauchamp?
Frankly, debating whether the Capt. is legit or not is a distraction from the main point and that is: Obama is not experienced enough or fit to be Commander in Chief.”
If he was soooo concerned with properly equipping our troops, why did he vote against funding them?
YouAllAreMorons,
You fail to read any of the comments, let alone the Pentagon’s refutation of Sen Obama’s source and say we have a reading comprehension problem? Do need to look in a mirror.
The hate from the left is only exceeded by their arrogance and ignorance.
I have clicked on several leftist website links. Congrats on doing your master’s bidding in coming here and attacking use with your bile.
And Obama has to win the primary first. And IF he wins the Presidency, then he will have to bring more than pretty words.
Caelestis,
You are up early today! It is 3 friggen AM in Iraq! Get some sleep. The trolls will still be here.
ChrisG
Hush little one..it will all be over soon enough. You can’t stop the inevitable…especially with an old worthless piece of garbage like McCain. LOL the best part is that all you repukes are screwed and you know it.
It’s a done deal…might as well begin preparing your crying about the Obama presidency now.
CHEERS CHUMPS!
Wow… What a moron.. Hate filled and ignorant.
So ABCNEWS talks to the same guy, one single source, to ‘verify the story’.
If this ‘army captain’, lied to Obama’s staff, of course he is going to lie the ABCNEWS.
Did anybody verify with the US ARMY that this guy is really an Army officer?
Did anybody verify that this guy actually served in combat?
A story with a single unnamed source – is not verified.
I think we have to wait those 24 business hours to get his name. Maybe the same day that John F’ing Kerry publishes his records
It looks like Obama didn’t understand what the “Captain” was talking about and makes him look foolish and this is who the Left is anting as CIC. Amazing.
It still looks like shenanigans to me if the Pentagon comes out and says they have no idea about this. Maybe if the “captain” would come out ans say who his is and, maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I’m thinking Beauchamp all over again though.
Yes, graduate college also with an Engineering degree and masters work.
Well gee, Chris G, have you considereded submitting your stone cold stunner refutation of AGW to Nature or Science? I’m sure they would love to publish it once it passes peer review. As a scientist you should know that you sound like a total idiot if you deny an entire body of established, proven science but are afraid to submit your refutation to the appropriate professional journal.
You sound like one of those old cranks from 1968 who vehemently denied plate tectonics and clung to eugeosynclinal model of mountains being formed by upwarping due to the massive accumulation of sediments in adjacent troughs.
I don’t disagree with the ability of our military to achieve military goals.
OIF was a strategic blunder for a personal vendetta (‘he tried to kill my daddy’)~and we’ll still have mil personnel being blown up if we stick around 100 years like McCain wants to.
Obama wants to scale down our blunder (OIF) and upscale the Afghani operations and also in Northern Pakistan.
I’ll be voting for him in the fall.
“Then we have the Pentagon refuting Tapper’s anonymous “Captain”.
The pentagon is refuting? That settles everything. After all, they would NEVER lie…
Obama was characterizing very ordinary things as a deficiency.
Most Platoons will hhave about 30 men (especially light infantry units).
They will never have enough Equipment (especially tranport).
They will use field expediencies (especially in combat).
They will use and admire captured equipment (trophies).
Upon scrutiny he’s not really saying anything.
Doug Watts,
I also join a growing number of real scientists who objectively refute your cult of Gore. While we are at it, great job on the “new ice age” prediction fiasco rebound. But I am an Army Officer, not a scientist and this thread is about Obama slamming the President over a lie which the Pentagon and other Soldiers are refuting.
But to the left, we do not count because we oppose socialism and its lies.
Yawn – this is typical Warpublican bluster –
Of course Bush has been a failure as a CinC – and the Pentagon has been proven a liar. But the yabos who call themselves Patriots are now gathering around a guy who promises them 100 years of occupation – and they want to parse Obama’s claim that there’s shortages in our war effort! And they still support our playWarrior of a president!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/31/60minutes/main652491.shtml
“I also join a growing number of real scientists who objectively refute your cult of Gore. While we are at it, great job on the “new ice age” prediction fiasco rebound. But I am an Army Officer, not a scientist and this thread is about Obama slamming the President over a lie which the Pentagon and other Soldiers are refuting. But to the left, we do not count because we oppose socialism and its lies.”
Most people on te left See Obama as a centrist because he repeated the Harry and Louise ads against Clinton’s ealthcare plan.
My ideal candidate would be for single payer and pro-war–like Blair. The Labour party in the UK were in favour of cecking Hitler well before Conservatives in teh UK saw the German asshole as a threat. Personally, I don’t see antiwar American people as serious socialists. They will quickly split apart once they have no war to bitch about. You have nothing to fear from the socalled left in America with Obama leading them.
Dec 2001, Osama Bin Laden escaped Afghanistan
15 months later, US invades Iraq in Mar 2003
How does anything-even if true-that was done to the military in Afghanistan re resources have anything to do with not getting Osama Bin Laden (the big reason for the war in Afghanistan) 15 months earlier?
So many hate-filled, angry, dismissive, deliberately ignorant (choosing to ignore earlier comments) people. Somehow I’m not seeing a lot of “open-minded”ness from the “liberal” left. Could it be such people aren’t really open-minded(liberal), and are just paranoid (seeing conspiracies everywhere)? Could it be they’re just not strong enough in will to try and look at their own house before trying to clean up someone else’s? Could it be Daily Kos or some other extremist website linked to FA? …OR perhaps there’s a shortage of anti-schizophrenia medications right now? In any event, I blame Bush and vow not to vote for him this fall.
It’s also humourous to see you get agitated about Obama ending the war.
He’s not going to end the war in Iraq. He said as much in the debates when he cross examined Edwards about where the QRF Edwards proposed to base in Kuwait could just as easily be based in Iraq anyway–he called a base in Kuwait and a base in Iraq as a dstinction without a difference. He appeared, at least to me, to be suggesting that he intends to base US troops in Iraq in various remote bases for the forseeable future.
Shit, all the British needed in the 20s and 30s was a squadron of biplanes and sacks of grenades to occupy Mesopotamia.
Obama will keep the occupation going. He’s a military illiterate or he’s just playing to a dumb crowd who don’t know any better.
Hmmm…wow, that’s amazing. A discussion about Sen Obama’s incorrect comments yields attacks on Senator McCain and false claims that he want to keep the war in Iraq going for 100yrs…when he REALLY said (sans the selective editing, half-quoting, and cherry-picking of statements from people who are partisans not patriots) that he’d be willing to keep US forces in Iraq for 100yrs as long as they weren’t dying. Then he used the examples of the US occupation of Germany, Italy, Japan, and ROK to make it even more clear. That means either those hate-filled people who are saying Sen McCain will keep the war going for 100yrs are either complete morons or straight up liars. In either event….they demonstrate their mettle.
Thanks Chris and I work nights, gotta get ready for the sumer and being nocturnal is my way of surviving the heat that is to come……….
bottom line: Most vets and active duty can smell garbage a mile away and this story is garbage. The Proof: Comments dissecting Obama’s quote are being deleted at an alraming rate over at the ABC blog where High Priest Tapper is holding court…………
“How does anything-even if true-that was done to the military in Afghanistan re resources have anything to do with not getting Osama Bin Laden (the big reason for the war in Afghanistan) 15 months earlier?”
er…well anyway, the occupation of Afganistan is all about Bin Laden.
“So many hate-filled, angry, dismissive, deliberately ignorant (choosing to ignore earlier comments) people. Somehow I’m not seeing a lot of “open-minded”ness from the “liberal” left.”
I’m a socialist. I think Obama is barely left of center. He widely suspected to be in favour of privatizing social security, his healthcare plan would probably lead to private accounts, and he’s proposing that the military be expanded by 100,000 infantry.
“Could it be such people aren’t really open-minded(liberal), and are just paranoid (seeing conspiracies everywhere)? Could it be they’re just not strong enough in will to try and look at their own house before trying to clean up someone else’s? Could it be Daily Kos or some other extremist website linked to FA? …OR perhaps there’s a shortage of anti-schizophrenia medications right now? In any event, I blame Bush and vow not to vote for him this fall.”
Obama represents the schizophrenia of the left but not in the way you are suggesting. He has a raft of privatization measures and a garnish of antiwar hysteria. It’s unholy. Dkos is n’t really left wing btw…it’s merely pro Obama…most of the socialists there were defeated or banned.
So the Socialists are not Socialists? Kos and DU will be surprised and shocked.
Black is White
Freedom is Slavery…
Dan, I agree with most everything you said shy of the suggestion (deliberate or inadvertent) that Kos etc aren’t socialist, but I think we can agree they’re left of center and beyond moderate. I’m comfortable with that consensus if you are 🙂
Btw, I hear there’s a medication you can get that cures socialism, but it’s too expensive to be covered under Universal Healthcare plans.
Good post Dan-sincerely
“Dkos is n’t really left wing btw” No it’s far to the left of left wing.
Caelestis,
I know the staying cool feeling of post 2000hrs in Iraq. As I said above, knowing my luck it will be July or August when I get there this time.
After reading your post, I went back to the ABC link and noticed that most all of the center to right wing comments (most anyone who disagrees with or pokes holes in the story) are deleted. Telling.
“So the Socialists are not Socialists? Kos and DU will be surprised and shocked.
Black is White
Freedom is Slavery…”
The Obama people have successfully gutted the call for Universal Healthcare over at Dkos. He’s suggested merit pay for teachers his followers agree. He’s said that social security is over and that private pensions are better than social security, he’s in favour of globalization, and he reckons the New Deal is not worth defending. Dkos has gone along with that conservative message. He’s not a socialist and is followers are not socialists. The only socialist in the race was that very wierd little man called Kucinich (a completely oddball character who makes things like single payer look like the brain wave of one legged lesbian vegans). Blair is a good socialist. He defended Labour’s domestic legacy and went to war when called for.
I guess obama didn’t follow all of Alanski’s direction. And to think I thought he was a Socialist. How bad of me. He was a centrist all along.