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Philadelphia Steve
15 years ago
NOTE: THIS COMMENT VIOLATES THE REQUEST OF THE POST AUTHOR TO AVOID SPAMMING THE COMMENT STREAM AND IT HAS BEEN REMOVED. ADDITIONAL FILIBUSTERING COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD WILL BE REMOVED WITHOUT NOTICE.
Philadelphia Steve
15 years ago
Re: “P.S. If you insist on filibustering in these comment threads, I reserve the right to delete your comments. Please limit your responses so that other people’s words are not lost in your vomitous spew.”
Go ahead.
There are three parallel discussion threads going on here, all directed at me. I just respond to the accusations made.
Make sure you pick the ones that directly refute, with sources, comments made by Conservatives. We would not want to trouble them too much with facts.
I post here because, unlike Conservatives, I do not like having discussions in an echo chamber, where only “approved” comments are permitted. I prefer a site where I have demostrate knowledge of my topic, and encounter errudite conversation.
If you prefer the Rush Limbaugh model of discourse, go ahead and ban me altogether.
Steve: No further warning will be issued. If you wish to respond to comments and engage in the discussion, you may continue to do so.
However, I will not allow you to dominate this comment thread with multiple replies.
If you are unable to post your comments and responses as a single comment, then wait for others to respond, then I suggest you organize your thoughts offline, then post when you have fully considered what it is you want to say.
I love seeing Steve’s “conservative free pass” line. I don’t think he even realizes that
1) there is no free pass given by most people who post on this site (see also the wide range of political support for various Republican candidates)
2) the idea of a free pass for a political orientation is better illustrated by his own posts in regards to Democrats
That is absurd on its face, with all due respect. This is exactly what I am talking about. Did you even read my post. Do you disagree that Hitler and Billy Graham both fall on the right spectrum of politics just Stalin and Gandhi both fall on the left? Do you not see how those ‘pairs’ are inherienty incompatible? Why do you insist on playing the game?
You mentioned immigration. Lets talk about that. What is the solution? First, we have to identify what the problem is. That depends on what demographic you are speaking to. Sometimes its a problem of national sovereignty. Sometimes its a problem of foreign cheap labor undercutting the local working class. Sometimes its a problem of aliens using up our resources. The solution seems to be the same. Get them to go away and/or stop coming. How we do that is what is difficult. Because you’ll notice that Mr. Huckabee suggests we do something that I have not yet seen anyone else on the right suggest, and that is punish people who knowing hire illegal aliens. Why is that not a universally acceptable option? Maybe its not the best way to do things, but it is certainly respectable. What do you suggest we do? Follow free market ideology? If we did that and followed the NAFTA/CAFTA ideology then just as capital should be allowed the right to freely roam across borders then so too should labor. According to Free Market ideology the theory is that if we open borders then the Mexicans will flood America seeking better pay. Then the companies such as the US based companies that having production facilities in Mexico will be forced to raise its wage scale through natural necessity. They would not have to offer as much as what is paid in the US simply because there is a cost to coming here. People don’t just leave their country to go work in another for the hell of it. It is inconvenient except to the extent that Mexican wages are simply so low compared to American wages. That is, they don’t even approach our wages. Why? Because the elite in Mexico benefit from the corporate American factories in Mexico. And the only reason those factories are even there is for the dirt-cheap labor. The only reason Mexicans are spilling over the border is because of the extremely high wages here, by comparison to their own.
What is the point? The point is not that we should open the borders but that to not do so does indeed illustrate a double standard present in free market ideology. Perhaps we legalize them all. You, know so we can collect their taxes. Oh, but then they’d enjoy the same legal rights including the right to the minimum wage which corporate America sure as hell doesn’t want. Why does no one even discuss Corporate interests in all of this on television? Edwards and Huckabee do, but they’re considered morons by both sides. The only solutions that are be presented by both sides are half-ass non-solutions. We can build a big wall the will ultimately be as successful as any wall, and then not legalize the Mexicans that are still spilling over the border, and so our own wages are undercut because–as free market ideology tells us–an employer will hire them over us, if it means they can save a small fortune of the costs of labor.
The question that needs to be asked in my opinion of our candidates is this, why is it breaking the fundamental law of nature to not allow the free flow of capital from our country to theirs, and the free flow of cheap goods from their country to ours, but not the free flow of labor in either direction?
“How can defeating the US by supporting whatever current anti American foreign leader currently fighting us be good for the working man?” You will have to clarify for me what you’re talking about.
“Is being the citizen of a defeated country supposed to somehow improve the life of the working man?” I don’t is it? Do you mean to suggest that whenever America defeats another country that the life for their working class citizens suddenly worsens?
“Unions are not good for anyone, except the union bosses and the leftist political leaders.” That is an interesting point. I would agree with you, but only with adding that is also true of corporations as well who are legally obligated to look after the monetary interests of their shareholders over everything else, including the interests of their laborers. Beyond that, it may be good to acknowledge that any and all social organizations eventually become corrupt. Unions, Countries, Corporations, Boy Scout Troops, Families, all communities and organizations. That’s why the word “reorganize” exists. Although, at the peak of Union membership in this country real wages were also at their peak I believe. Regardless, the solution to the overbearing union is to remove the overbearing corporation. Problem solved, then we could all go live on farms, which I’m in the process of working towards myself, but which I am pretty certain is by no means an option for the majority of the planet’s–not to mention America’s–citizens.
After watching the news and Bush in the sword dance clearly links a lot of the ideals in Judgments with actions taken in this Iraq war. America has been fighting a war for the Arabs via Bush and Company. The Center for Integrity clearly shows the run up to the war was an out right lie, and media supported frenzy, all complicit in histories most horrific play to write a wrong history.
The horror is the Islamic stronghold on not only America business, education, and politics, Arabs under the radar manipulate American observation through Americas very own Mainstream Media. Here, Islam is a very powerful force in this election for President. That’s why it is important to debate and consider the cultural clock that has been controlled, and now is definitely linked by Obama blood to Islam Arabs. This can influence powerful politics of the Democrats like Obama. Which may not be good for America, here, America likely needs a long romance and honeymoon to understand more about this cultural clock inside of Obama. A longer warm up time is needed to find out about Obama for what he will do compared to what he says.
Please all understand that I personally like Obama, but America needs to recognized and realize what are the consequences of change with a man who is a half breed, the blood from middle America, in Kansas, and the from the blood of a devoted Islamic father basically of Arabic fundamentalist. Yes, Obama makes the claim he is Christian, anyone can, but one makes the complete leap and in honor and support usually takes on a new name, in Obama’s case why not a Christian name? Even basic American Plains Indians in America have done that.
So, here America has a half breed, part Kansas, and part Arab Islamic from a devoted father who left him and his mother, Obama holds his hand on the bible committing his self to Christianity, yet keeping the name Hussein which we know will have an extraordinary impact on the entire Middle East. But, in what way, Bill Clinton is right even though critics bash Bill Clinton; by saying Obama is the roll of the dice, or is a fairy tail which eludes from Obama’s link to Kansas his mother and America’s most treasured fairy tail “The wizard of OZ” which exposed the wizard who was not. Which Clinton obviously perceives as not the President we need now.
After reading the book Obama wrote called the “Audacity of Hope” clearly shows and exposes very Anti-Constitutional ideals that support deep reflection from Islamic beliefs. In one case many stupid and contradictory remarks are made by Obama in his book, yet when one understands he is a half breed, one can see the that core believe in Islam is reflected through his fathers blood. Incredible for Obama to say he offers no Unified theory in American government. A very striking and extraordinary statement for one who taught the Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for eight to ten years. America should think with caution about this man called Obama.
No need to read further into jose’s comment then the first paragraph:
The Center for Integrity clearly shows the run up to the war was an out right lie, and media supported frenzy, all complicit in histories most horrific play to write a wrong history.
Later Wednesday, Obama gave a 10-minute talk by live broadcast to a joint meeting in Atlanta of four historically black Baptist denominations, where Clinton was to appear in person later. These groups produced some of the most prominent civil rights leaders, including the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.. whom Obama quoted.
NOTE: THIS COMMENT VIOLATES THE REQUEST OF THE POST AUTHOR TO AVOID SPAMMING THE COMMENT STREAM AND IT HAS BEEN REMOVED. ADDITIONAL FILIBUSTERING COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD WILL BE REMOVED WITHOUT NOTICE.
Re: “P.S. If you insist on filibustering in these comment threads, I reserve the right to delete your comments. Please limit your responses so that other people’s words are not lost in your vomitous spew.”
Go ahead.
There are three parallel discussion threads going on here, all directed at me. I just respond to the accusations made.
Make sure you pick the ones that directly refute, with sources, comments made by Conservatives. We would not want to trouble them too much with facts.
I post here because, unlike Conservatives, I do not like having discussions in an echo chamber, where only “approved” comments are permitted. I prefer a site where I have demostrate knowledge of my topic, and encounter errudite conversation.
If you prefer the Rush Limbaugh model of discourse, go ahead and ban me altogether.
Steve: No further warning will be issued. If you wish to respond to comments and engage in the discussion, you may continue to do so.
However, I will not allow you to dominate this comment thread with multiple replies.
If you are unable to post your comments and responses as a single comment, then wait for others to respond, then I suggest you organize your thoughts offline, then post when you have fully considered what it is you want to say.
I love seeing Steve’s “conservative free pass” line. I don’t think he even realizes that
1) there is no free pass given by most people who post on this site (see also the wide range of political support for various Republican candidates)
2) the idea of a free pass for a political orientation is better illustrated by his own posts in regards to Democrats
That is absurd on its face, with all due respect. This is exactly what I am talking about. Did you even read my post. Do you disagree that Hitler and Billy Graham both fall on the right spectrum of politics just Stalin and Gandhi both fall on the left? Do you not see how those ‘pairs’ are inherienty incompatible? Why do you insist on playing the game?
You mentioned immigration. Lets talk about that. What is the solution? First, we have to identify what the problem is. That depends on what demographic you are speaking to. Sometimes its a problem of national sovereignty. Sometimes its a problem of foreign cheap labor undercutting the local working class. Sometimes its a problem of aliens using up our resources. The solution seems to be the same. Get them to go away and/or stop coming. How we do that is what is difficult. Because you’ll notice that Mr. Huckabee suggests we do something that I have not yet seen anyone else on the right suggest, and that is punish people who knowing hire illegal aliens. Why is that not a universally acceptable option? Maybe its not the best way to do things, but it is certainly respectable. What do you suggest we do? Follow free market ideology? If we did that and followed the NAFTA/CAFTA ideology then just as capital should be allowed the right to freely roam across borders then so too should labor. According to Free Market ideology the theory is that if we open borders then the Mexicans will flood America seeking better pay. Then the companies such as the US based companies that having production facilities in Mexico will be forced to raise its wage scale through natural necessity. They would not have to offer as much as what is paid in the US simply because there is a cost to coming here. People don’t just leave their country to go work in another for the hell of it. It is inconvenient except to the extent that Mexican wages are simply so low compared to American wages. That is, they don’t even approach our wages. Why? Because the elite in Mexico benefit from the corporate American factories in Mexico. And the only reason those factories are even there is for the dirt-cheap labor. The only reason Mexicans are spilling over the border is because of the extremely high wages here, by comparison to their own.
What is the point? The point is not that we should open the borders but that to not do so does indeed illustrate a double standard present in free market ideology. Perhaps we legalize them all. You, know so we can collect their taxes. Oh, but then they’d enjoy the same legal rights including the right to the minimum wage which corporate America sure as hell doesn’t want. Why does no one even discuss Corporate interests in all of this on television? Edwards and Huckabee do, but they’re considered morons by both sides. The only solutions that are be presented by both sides are half-ass non-solutions. We can build a big wall the will ultimately be as successful as any wall, and then not legalize the Mexicans that are still spilling over the border, and so our own wages are undercut because–as free market ideology tells us–an employer will hire them over us, if it means they can save a small fortune of the costs of labor.
The question that needs to be asked in my opinion of our candidates is this, why is it breaking the fundamental law of nature to not allow the free flow of capital from our country to theirs, and the free flow of cheap goods from their country to ours, but not the free flow of labor in either direction?
“How can defeating the US by supporting whatever current anti American foreign leader currently fighting us be good for the working man?” You will have to clarify for me what you’re talking about.
“Is being the citizen of a defeated country supposed to somehow improve the life of the working man?” I don’t is it? Do you mean to suggest that whenever America defeats another country that the life for their working class citizens suddenly worsens?
“Unions are not good for anyone, except the union bosses and the leftist political leaders.” That is an interesting point. I would agree with you, but only with adding that is also true of corporations as well who are legally obligated to look after the monetary interests of their shareholders over everything else, including the interests of their laborers. Beyond that, it may be good to acknowledge that any and all social organizations eventually become corrupt. Unions, Countries, Corporations, Boy Scout Troops, Families, all communities and organizations. That’s why the word “reorganize” exists. Although, at the peak of Union membership in this country real wages were also at their peak I believe. Regardless, the solution to the overbearing union is to remove the overbearing corporation. Problem solved, then we could all go live on farms, which I’m in the process of working towards myself, but which I am pretty certain is by no means an option for the majority of the planet’s–not to mention America’s–citizens.
So where does that leave us?
After watching the news and Bush in the sword dance clearly links a lot of the ideals in Judgments with actions taken in this Iraq war. America has been fighting a war for the Arabs via Bush and Company. The Center for Integrity clearly shows the run up to the war was an out right lie, and media supported frenzy, all complicit in histories most horrific play to write a wrong history.
The horror is the Islamic stronghold on not only America business, education, and politics, Arabs under the radar manipulate American observation through Americas very own Mainstream Media. Here, Islam is a very powerful force in this election for President. That’s why it is important to debate and consider the cultural clock that has been controlled, and now is definitely linked by Obama blood to Islam Arabs. This can influence powerful politics of the Democrats like Obama. Which may not be good for America, here, America likely needs a long romance and honeymoon to understand more about this cultural clock inside of Obama. A longer warm up time is needed to find out about Obama for what he will do compared to what he says.
Please all understand that I personally like Obama, but America needs to recognized and realize what are the consequences of change with a man who is a half breed, the blood from middle America, in Kansas, and the from the blood of a devoted Islamic father basically of Arabic fundamentalist. Yes, Obama makes the claim he is Christian, anyone can, but one makes the complete leap and in honor and support usually takes on a new name, in Obama’s case why not a Christian name? Even basic American Plains Indians in America have done that.
So, here America has a half breed, part Kansas, and part Arab Islamic from a devoted father who left him and his mother, Obama holds his hand on the bible committing his self to Christianity, yet keeping the name Hussein which we know will have an extraordinary impact on the entire Middle East. But, in what way, Bill Clinton is right even though critics bash Bill Clinton; by saying Obama is the roll of the dice, or is a fairy tail which eludes from Obama’s link to Kansas his mother and America’s most treasured fairy tail “The wizard of OZ” which exposed the wizard who was not. Which Clinton obviously perceives as not the President we need now.
After reading the book Obama wrote called the “Audacity of Hope” clearly shows and exposes very Anti-Constitutional ideals that support deep reflection from Islamic beliefs. In one case many stupid and contradictory remarks are made by Obama in his book, yet when one understands he is a half breed, one can see the that core believe in Islam is reflected through his fathers blood. Incredible for Obama to say he offers no Unified theory in American government. A very striking and extraordinary statement for one who taught the Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for eight to ten years. America should think with caution about this man called Obama.
No need to read further into jose’s comment then the first paragraph:
Quite wrong.
Dems agree with Flopping Aces:
Later Wednesday, Obama gave a 10-minute talk by live broadcast to a joint meeting in Atlanta of four historically black Baptist denominations, where Clinton was to appear in person later. These groups produced some of the most prominent civil rights leaders, including the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.. whom Obama quoted.
“Pastors are pushing this movement forward,” Obama said of his campaign, “and I need each and every one of you in this fight.”
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080130/D8UGERC80.html