J. Robert Smith @ American Thinker
The battle lines are being drawn. The fight for the GOP is on. The seemingly eternal struggle between the right and the Republican establishment has entered its newest phase. In the wake of Mitt Romney being end-run by Barack Obama, GOP get-alongs want to double-down on failure. Moderation — the odor of it — is in DC’s air like cheap, fetid perfume.
But the fight between grassroots conservatives and the get-alongs is different this time — very different. The eternal struggle may prove not to be eternal, after all. If grassroots conservatives fail to take control of the Republican Party, establishmentarians may find that the GOP has become a rump; not much more than the rightwing of the leftwing Democratic Party. Grassroots conservatives will bolt, and with compelling cause.
The newest GOP civil war is more than Bob Taft versus Ike; more than Goldwater versus Rockefeller; more than Dutch Reagan versus Jerry Ford. Statism is nearing existential crisis, and so, as a result, is the good ol U.S.A.
The American left got the memo back in the 90s about the collapse of communism but chose to disregard it. That memo landed in circular files throughout academia, the media, in Hollywood, and among Democrats everywhere. Fervid belief trumped the stark object lesson that was the Soviet Union: statism doesn’t work, particularly when taken to its logical extreme.
But, protest American lefties: “We don’t embrace communism. We’re progressives in the American tradition, or, if you must, social democrats, like our Western European cousins. We want a mixed economy with a decidedly stronger role for government. We want a stronger social safety net with universal… everything. We want a progressive culture shorn of traditional America’s exclusions for gays in marriage. Sex isn’t bad if contraception is free and easily accessible. Women need the right to abortion without exception. People need to be governed in their diets (Michelle says so). Children need to be educated from grade school through college in the radically New American Society, which is about tolerance and inclusion — except for the faithful, the traditional, and the producers.”
Evidently the American left hasn’t read the memo about Western Europe (or Europe in its entirety, for that matter). You know, the memo that’s being updated daily, grimly.
Europe’s elites are cooking the books, shuffling paper assets first here and then there to forestall economic and governmental collapses. The give-me masses in Greece, Spain, and Italy are in full-throated protest and riot. You see, social democratic statism doesn’t work much better than its more extreme variant: communism. It just takes a little longer to fail.
The GOP was doomed the moment it ignored the campaign funding violations, the unkept campaign promises and the voter fraud of …..’08. But not to worry, they will ignore the same violations of ’12 and reach out their hands once again for more money to run yet another RINO loser. GOP is DOOMED should be their motto.
My axe to grind is that all this is being brought to us by a guy that was a former Marine and current law enforcement officer. Hey Curt, care to read us back the two, count them two, Oaths of Office you took? Remind me again why you clowns take this Oath. Jesus, we are so screwed.
@Dumbplumber:
What are you talking about?
@Dumbplumber: I agree with Aqua….what the hell are you talking about?
Dumbplumber,
Ever been in the service? Ever been in a fire fight? Probably not. Two things in this world you never do, piss off a Marine or piss off a Marine officer. You smoking “weed” when you made your entry? It is now legal in several states.
Now I know why you have the name dumbplumber-a shining star in the heavens of stupidity.
Dumbplumber
it’s the third time I read your comment
the first one you let us believe that you had an ear in the WHITE HOUSE AFFAIRS,
THE SECOND TIME JUST THESE LAST DAYS, you said you did not vote for MITT RUMNEY BECAUSE
you pretend he had said some bad things about SARAH PALIN.
AND NOW YOU COME IN TO GIVE THAT COMMENT,
I believe you only are looking for attention,
I hit the wrong button on dumbplumber’s bizarre comment. I don’t agree with the article or the comment.
The struggle in the GOP is between the Statist Republicans and the Free Market Constitutionalists. The Statist Republicans believe in a large strong central government for economic planning and regimentation, not unlike the Progressives and Liberals.
Like 8541 says, it is best not to prod a Marine. There is always a ferocity just beneath a mild mannered demeanor.
@Dumbplumber: Again, I am truly confused. What the h… are yo talking about?
The struggle within the GOP…from a liberal’s vantage point:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/the-gop-faces-years-in-the-wilderness-after-2012-election-losses.html
I agree with most of this analysis. I don’t expect anyone here to agree with it. The future of conservatism in the USA depends on who is correct…people like David Frum and Matthew Dowd and David Brooks, advising a tilt toward moderation, or Tea Party types, advising a strict adherence to the Tea Party vision of conservatism.
As someone who wants to see Scalia replaced by a more moderate Supreme Court justice, I’d love to see the GOP nominate a strict Tea Party conservative in 2016.
I think that the single biggest challenge for the GOP is the abortion issue. Exit polls found that 55% of the total voting population said that abortion should be legal in all or most circumstances. I don’t have the breakdown among women, but I’d think that it would be even higher. I personally think that the GOP would do well to take the position that Roe v Wade should be repealed, but then the issue of abortion regulation should be left up to the states. This would probably neutralize the abortion issue among pro-choice voters but should still be acceptable to those who are currently in favor of criminalizing abortion. But GOP platform rhetoric has gotten increasingly strident — favoring the criminalization of abortion even in cases of rape and incest.
I think that the GOP faces a bigger “herding cats” problem than does the Democratic Party. The Karl Rove coalition will become increasingly challenging to hold together, even as the demographics of the Karl Rove coalition become increasingly inadequate to form a national majority.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
openid.aol.com/runnswim
hi, I don’t think the election happen because of the CONSERVATIVES VALUES,
they are the right values,
it’s the people Voting for OBAMA who are at fault, and blind and cannot care about their AMERICA,
like the GOP who love AMERICA and care for the people enough
to want to help them better, by giving a job to go to and feel PROUD AMERICAN WHO CAN PURSUE THEIR DREAM, THE CONSERVATIVES are smarter and know how, they are not selfish like your party of me myself and my job to be re-elect at any cost,
and MITT ROMNEY SHOWED IT, HE COULD NOT GET DOWN TO THE SAME LEVEL AS OBAMA WHO WAS OUT TO DESTROY AND DEMANDED REVENGE TO THE CROWD,
HE DID NOT WIN ANY ELECTION, HE LOST HIS CREDIBILITY AND HIS SELF RESPECT.
but the CONSERVATIVES KEPT THEIR CLASS AND VALUES.
Hi Bees (#9): I understand your position, but the election is over and Barack Obama will be President for the next 4 years and 2 months. This thread is about what the GOP does in the future. Does the GOP go the strict Tea Party way or does it become a more moderate Party?
Definition and examples of GOP moderates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_%28United_States%29#Moderates
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
openid.aol.com/runnswim
THE GOP IS ACTUALLY THE MOST MODERATE PARTY OF ALL,
there is no question about it, the proof is they did not descended in the hell where the OBAMA TRIED
so hard to bring them, they are the most tolerant ones also, and the brightest of anyone else you can find, is in it why you come here also?
no it’s not for the GOP to change in the future,
it’s for the voters to get smarter and realize their missfortune to have miss to elect the best of AMERICA
AND THE BRAVEST WHO ARE ALWAYS THERE TO HELP WHEN DISASTER COME,
THERE ARE SO MANY PROOF TO SEE THE EVIDENCE,
they don’t go run away from problem if they are in POWER,
INSTEAD OF PLAYING CRAP IN LAST VEGAS, HIDDING FROM FACING THE PEOPLE,
MITT ROMNEY CAME OUT ON THE SECOND NINE ELEVEN, TO FACE THE QUESTIONS ASK
BY A PUBLIC CONCERNED ABOUT THE DEATH OF HER FOUR HEROES,
AS OPPOSE TO THE OPPONENT AND MEDIAS TRYING TO INSULT HIM FOR WHAT HE HAD THE COURAGE TO STAND OUT BECAUSE OBAMA WAS HIDING FROM IT,
NO IT’S NOT FOR THEM TO CHANGE.
LET THE PEOPLE COME TO THEM AND BE AMERICAN NOT ONLY BY MOUTH, BUT BY ACTIONS IN THE FUTURE. OR SINK INTO A GLOBAL UN ORG. CLIFF BOTTOMLESS,
NO ONE WILL CHANGE AMERICA LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO
SO ARROGANTLY, AND YOU WON’T CHANGE THE CONSERVATIVES EITHER, THEY ARE THE PILLARS OF AMERICA,
THEY ARE UNMOVEBLE
Hi Bees (#11),
In November of 2004, it took liberals a very long time to come to grips with the reality that they’d never again have the opportunity to defeat George W. Bush in an American political election.
Benghazi will be investigated. The fiscal cliff may or may not be averted and this may or may not prove to be a bad or good thing. Radical Islamists will always take every opportunity to make whatever statement they think is in their interests (or satisfies their blood lust). Natural disasters will continue to happen. The earth will continue to warm…or not. Taxes have always been as certain as death.
Most importantly, life will go on and the free people of our nation will continue to enjoy their inalienable right to pursue happiness, in ways which are meaningful to themselves as individuals.
We should hug those we love and be thankful for what we have.
Politics is a great sport but, beyond that, is highly overrated, with regard to the things which really matter.
It doesn’t take a village. It takes family and friends. Villages have their place, but their role in the pursuit of happiness is marginal, at most, here in early 21st century USA.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
Hi Larry Well said. I asked Bees previously if she knew the story of Chicken Little? It truly is time to hug your family and hold close those you love.
Be courageous. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
How bout N.D. True example of perseverance, teamwork and a bit Luck o’ the Irish.
Oh my goodness. Ya’ think?
ND vs ‘Bama
I just wish that ‘Bama hadn’t lost to A&M. Still, the ratings should be huge. I’ll watch for sure.
– L
openid.aol.com/runnswim
and
@Richard Wheeler
just a note here
I ‘m following a treasure name MANKIND on television
in part on HISTORY CHANNEL,
IF you can see it, it is a masterpiece
it begin at the start of humankind, in hour long chapters each
till
I don’t know, not there yet to the end,
super,
did you know that GOLD came from the fallen star or comet.
bye
a must see
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
There seems to be some serious misconceptions about the TEA Party. Here are the 10 core beliefs of the TEA Party:
Eliminate Excessive Taxes
Eliminate the National Debt
Eliminate Deficit Spending
Protect Free Markets
Abide by the Constitution of the United States
Promote Civic Responsibility
Reduce the Overall Size of Government
Believe in the People
Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics
Maintain Local Independence
http://www.teaparty-platform.com/
Although there have been some social conservatives that have tried to hijack the TEA Party name, you can see there are no social issues which the TEA Party has taken.
Hi Aqua (#16): Thanks for the helpful information. I wasn’t aware of the 10 belief manifesto. People like Bachmann and Palin are often described as being Tea Party conservatives. In the future, I’ll try to be aware of the distinction between the economically-centered Tea Party and the Republicans who are primarily social conservatives but who cloak themselves with the Tea Party mantle.
This does illustrate what I meant by the challenge of future GOP national campaigns to keep all of the various breeds of domesticated cats in the sandbox at the same time, while gathering sufficient feral conservative cats from the outside to overcome the enlarging melange of Democratic cats.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
As soon as a republican can convey an economic message similar to the TEA Party platform and leave the social issues to the States, we will have a good candidate. I also think there is a difference in having an opinion on social issues and an agenda on social issues.
I agree with that statement entirely. But, in practice, this means putting social issues on the back burner (this is what Romney tried to do, regarding the abortion issue, late in his campaign, when he stated that abortion legislation would not be a foreseeable priority in his administration). The problem for future GOP candidates will be to secure the nomination without advancing social issues to the level of an agenda.
Over the weekend, some GOP luminary (or operative; I forget whom) suggested moving the Iowa caucuses months down the road. That would be a great start. The Iowa straw poll caused Pawlenty to self-destruct, and Pawlenty would have beaten Obama, in my opinion. New Hampshire is a state where the GOP skews liberterian/economically conservative/socially moderate. That should be the first state to select delegates, followed by a Super Tuesday affair, followed – down the road – by Iowa, where the caucuses are mini-evangelical revival meetings.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
openid.aol.com/runnswim
hi’
this tell of the CONSERVATIVES being each individuals but freely able
each to express their belief in one one CAUSE and VALUES for all,
which the DEMOCRATS where unable to do.
bye
Larry says “Iowa caucuses mini-Evangelical revival meetings.” Exactly. Favors those espousing far right social agenda like Bachmann and Santorum 2012- Huckabee in 08. Mortally wounded Romney in 08 and Pawlenty( along with farcical straw poll) in 2012. Pawlenty appeared weak compared to fellow Minnisotan Bachmann. Not true nationally,but it forced him out.
Aqua #18 Would suggest Marco Rubio best candidate for 2016. Think HRC/BILL looking at historical significance of running in 2016.
Hillary is going to be 69 in 2016. Joe Biden will be 74.
The person whom I think would, in a parallel universe, be a terrific candidate and would have the best chance of becoming the first woman President would be ex-Michigan Governor turned UC Berkeley Law School Professor turned Current TV political talk show host Jennifer Granholm. The contrast between her and Palin/Bachmann, in terms of knowledge, intelligence, and gravitas is night and day. Alas, she was born in British Columbia (though raised in the USA since age 4 and a naturalized US citizen).
Alas. The birther thing.
I do think that she’d be a terrific counter-balance to Scalia as a Supreme Court justice. No way the GOP Senate filibuster-meisters would ever confirm her, though. She’s been way to plain-spoken and outspoken. These days, I don’t see any way that anyone who’s ever held high public office could ever be confirmed to SCOTUS by the Senate, because of the filibuster, used by both sides.
– LW/HB
@Richard Wheeler:
I like Rubio, I hope he runs. I also like Bobby Jindal and Chris Christie. I know there are a ton of republicans that are pissed at Christie, but that is exactly how I would want my governor to act.
I think Hillary is done. I think she has had enough and just wants to move on. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. I think the top three dem contenders are going to be Hickenlooper, O’Malley, and Patrick.
*ETA – congrats on the Irish. If Bama beats Georgia (and I’m thinking they will) it will be quite the game. The Irish may be the best college team, but Bama can probably play on Sundays. It will be a great match-up.
Aqua If HRC/BILL choose not to run I think Andrew Cuomo the frontrunner. He is substantially more moderate than his dad ( who I loved). Mario was a better orator than BHO or the Kennedys. One of the last great true Liberals.
Rubio vs. Cuomo would be a great match.
Six weeks ago, before Oklahoma win, I’d of said N.D had no chance against Bama. Now, 2 great defenses going head to head. Echos of Knute and The Bear. A Classic ND 17- Bama 14.
Manziel wins Heisman with T’eo 3rd. Personally like great running back Stepfan Taylor of Stanford.
Don’t overlook Cory Booker.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/7343/cory-booker-should-run-for-president-in-2016
He’s arguably got more bona fides than Obama did in 2008 and he’s razor sharp in a debate format. Plus, the story of him running into the burning building to carry out the elderly lady plays really well. America also is having a cultural love affair with Ivy League light skinned mixed racial people.
He also doesn’t come across as a typical politician. I really like the guy.
– Larry W/HB