An Appeal to Trump Supporters (Guest Post)

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TrumpTrain
 
I bow to no one in my contempt for and frustration with the GOP as it currently exists. For twenty years now they have been deeply unserious and have neglected their responsibilities to a degree that approaches treason.

Given all that I get the appeal Trump might hold, on the surface at least.

But we are now at a point when Hilary Clinton is openly promising to dedicate her Presidency to gun control. Gun control… the issue that has been a loser for Democrats for decades and is commonly held to have cost Al Gore the White House.

She is brazenly touting Scalia’s death as an opportunity to enact Michael Bloomberg’s wildest dreams.

She is doing this because all indications are that if Trump is the nominee she will not only beat him by double digits but she will bring a united Democratic Congress along for the ride. And even if that Congress lasts only two years it will be more than enough time to appoint one (possibly two) justices and pass a slate of gun control legislation the likes of which this country has never seen. Legislation without a sunset period. Legislation that will take decades to repeal in a best case scenario.

I am begging you to not allow this to happen. Cruz may be imperfect, you may even think he’s establishment, but what he isn’t is an existential threat to the US Constitution. Please don’t let this happen. Get over your rage and support Cruz.

And for those of you in the #neverTrump crowd… you may think Trump would be a disaster as a President but he would not be the disaster that Hilary would be. If it comes down to Trump vs. Clinton you swallow your outrage and vote for Trump.

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@John: You cant back that up, more instructors for fewer students? thats only liberal logic.
Why would these numbers be available anywhere all one can assume is a Background check = purchase of a gun. With the expansion of gun instuctors there must be a demand and those people who already have guns dont need classes.
Thats it, keep trying to dig for a number, if it were my choice there would be no infringements on my 2nd amendment rights, as scary as that is to some…tough. Citizens of the US have a right, with no regulation, restriction at all. If they commit a crime with that gun they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, for murder if thats hanging or chemical death so be it. It wont stop gun murder but it will stop that person from repeating murder. Limit appeals to 5 years on a death row sentence, quit feeding and housing the walking dead.

@John:

Heckle and Jeckle??? You do know they were essentially banned from public viewing because if the racial stereotypes

some see race in everythng. What ‘race’ is Heckle and Jeckle?

@John:

The states that have the highest rates of gun violence are red states not blue

What color are the states that have the highest rates of violence against unborn babies? Do you know that the city with the lowest rate of crime is in Georgia and it requires all home owners to own at least one gun?

kitt
Does more instructors mean more students and if it does how many more and is that number significant
It is a question it doesn’t have to be backed up
NRA instructors are unpaid volunteers mostly the ones I know certainly don’t give classes anything like full time
I can’t see that number being “demand” driven
Did you pay an instructor fee for your class?

@John:

However now many people have multiple guns in one household, but fewer households have guns

How would you know that? How many guns do I have in my household? Is that more or less than I had 20 or 30 years ago? I have never been ‘surveyed’ on these questions and know of no one that ever has been. This is a liberal ‘feel good’ claim that has absolutely no basis in fact.

@John: look it up, call your local gun range and ask. You insist on refusing to believe that 40 million guns in 2 years doesnt mean new gun owners ..go be dumb in a corner.

@Rich Wheeler:

Your thoughts on canned trophy hunts like Trump sons participate in?

Their participation in their favored activities is no better or worse than you participating in your assless chaps marching in Rainbow parades. Everyone to his own thing.

@Redteam:
Well I am unsure of whether Nelson should be actually considered a city since its population is only 1200
Also since burglaries happen about 6 times a year and the last murder was only 5 years ago I would question that it has the lowest rate of crime
Best places.net is a real estate comparison site used by people considering relocation
They rate it on a scale of 1 low to 100 high they rate Nelso GA in the 20s sort of a B- the us average is low 40s
Far from being number 1
Instead of just assuming what you are told by your “trusted” media
You should always go to primary sources and double check
That is what I do when I see anything that causes me to question it
Your media may be misleading you for any number of reasons ( most likely telling you things that you want to hear)
Red Team if you check you too will see that Nelson Ga doesn’t have the lowest rate of crime
Red Team polling doesn’t ask everyone it is sampling
Out of the 100 million voters in a POTUS election many less than 1 million would ever be polled
Yet the results have proved quite accurate
It is the same way with polls on gun ownership
@kitt:

@kitt:
Kitt maybe YOU are the one with reading comprehension problems
I do not dispute”the fact that there are some new gun owners
Of course there are
What we were talking about was the decrease in the rate of households with gun owners
Also a background check does not equal a gun SALE. Does it?

@Rich Wheeler: Canned hunts where the beast with the gun is led to a pen to shoot the trophy, thats not hunting its simply slaughtering.
The guided hunts on horseback are different there is no guarantee of meat.
My son in law eats everything he shoots or fishes for, my grand-daughter loves walleye.
My son in law rents about 40 acres to hunt on, he and his brother have planted food plots to increase the size and health of the animals there are specialized feeds you can cultivate along with mineral licks that will help the bucks get trophy sized. Deer have a natural range of 100 to 700 acres there are many guys who practice this, it improves the herd in that area (look up horny buck seed)The Pregnant Doe being well fed, winter better and have healthier fawns often twins. Over population is managed by our state, your area may be banned from taking doe or given a bonus doe tags. 2 deer for the price of 1 tag. You are only allowed to hunt in the area corresponding to your tag.

@John: 1 you walk into the store
2 you choose a gun
3. you tell the man you want to buy it.
4 he takes your identification and calls the agency and in a few minutes the background check is complete.
5.Fill out any forms required for your area
6. pay for gun
7. if waiting period is required you wait.
8. take your shiney new gun to the range and play
so does BRC = sale…pretty much yes.
Do you know how many eyes rolled with that question?

walk into store
choose a gun
have the background check done
choose not to buy the gun or have background check fail do not pay for gun leave store without gun but background check comletesd and tallied@kitt:

probably fewer eyes rolled than when you were quoting a 60 year payback time for a solar installation in WS
The most common length is about 7 years. You must live under a black cloud

@John:

Well I am unsure of whether Nelson should be actually considered a city since its population is only 1200

You’re confused, no one mentioned Nelson.

Your media may be misleading you for any number of reasons ( most likely telling you things that you want to hear)

Now you’re getting into the antics of liberals.

It is the same way with polls on gun ownership

LOL. just throw it out there, if it sounds good to a lib, it must be true.

@john:

The most common length is about 7 years. You must live under a black cloud

There is no such thing as a payback time for a complete home solar system. The repair, maintenance and replacement costs will exceed the cost of electricity in most of the US.

If you own a lot of open land and have much wildlife come through all the time, you, too, can run a ”canned” hunt.
It takes place on YOUR land.
As animals come through, hunters can have at them.
In winter it is easy as pie to see the trails where animals tread: they leave tracks in the snow.
Even a new hunter can park himself near such a trail by dawn and take the animal of his choice as they walk by.

A non-canned hunt takes place on public land, but the same rule applies: look for popular snow tracks, set up by dawn and you’ll be done by noon.

@john: out of 42 million how many do you think would change mind or fail? 1 or 2 %
You said you would give me the payback time and never did
I based my figures on usage and cost even at 100 % it was 30 years, not going to get that much. I dont live near the equator or in a treeless desert.
Just as the BRC numbers came from a government site that has the numbers.
I dont go to the grocery checkout with a gallon of milk to change my mind, People dont submit to a back ground check without purchase either.
But hang on to your unicorn farts as long as you like.

@Redteam: You are correct on solar.
In San Francisco solar is mandatory despite all the fog making it usually impossible to use. The ”break-even” point is infinity in SF. But they live on dreams, not reality there.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/san-francisco-require-rooftop-solar-installations-new-buildings/

@kitt: Agree canned hunts are slaughter–Trump sons are silver spoon a-holes who didn’t serve and are gutless COWARDS like fellow canned hunter Ted Nugent.
OTHER INFO YOU PROVIDED WAS INFORMATIVE—THANKS

Re primaries–Trump wins all five tonight—Cruz must win Indiana next week—currently trails by 6-8 %–Kasich polling about 18%—At least half will have to switch to Cruz. If, and it’s a big if, Cruz can win and do well in Cal.-very possible Trump will be stopped short of 1200 and it will go to contested convention.
Trump can’t beat HRC so bottom line—that’s the problem.

@Rich Wheeler: There are deer farms here all surrounded with 15 foot fence, that’s a canned hunt. That’s the type of “reserve” the Trumps would participate in. @John As far as hunting near a shopping center or in a residential area. With a rifle are you out of your mind? They dart the bears when they wander into residential areas not just because killing it would traumatize the snowflakes but rifle bullets can easily penetrate the walls of houses. It also happens to be illegal to hunt near higher populated areas.

Rich I am still hoping Cruz can pull it off I think he can beat Hillary, I think they would need to pull Biden out to beat Trump or Cruz. I vote as a sense of duty, it would be nice to Vote enthusiastically rather than anti-vote.

@Redteam:
solar cell panels are warranteed for 25 years ones that old are still in use and performing well
All major US power producers are encouraging their customers to consider solar The cost has dropped 60% in the last 4 years and will probably bottom out at 35 cents They want out of power production and to concentrate on transmission (the grid)

@kitt: There is so much heavy cover around here it is all shotgun not rifle

@Redteam:
solar cell panels are warranteed for 25 years ones that old are still in use and performing well
All major US power producers are encouraging their customers to consider solar The cost has dropped 60% in the last 4 years and will probably bottom out at 35 cents They want out of power production and to concentrate on transmission (the grid)@Redteam:
7-9 years is typicalhttp://www.directenergysolar.com/blog/post/what-is-the-average-payback-period-of-a-solar-installation/
Les if you do the non electrical installation yourself

@Rich Wheeler:

Trump sons are silver spoon a-holes who didn’t serve and are gutless COWARDS

You are just eat slam up with envy. Ole Lyin Rich, cousin of lyin Ted

How many of your sons served?

@kitt:
In my old uber liberal state of MA shooting was prohibited within 500 feet of a building
As for the bear population most of those liberal states are actually encouraging hunting bears there are too many of them

@Rich Wheeler:

Trump can’t beat HRC so bottom line

that’s enough wet dreams for one day.

@john:

They want out of power production and to concentrate on transmission (the grid)

True liberal speak. Oh, so they have a way figured out to make the sun produce around the clock? All righty. I guess they’ll just schedule so that wind will pick up at sundown and power those windmills enough to make up for the sun not shining. Good thing the wind blows during rainstorms. Yep, the libs have it all figured out. Better keep a closet full of Sterno for when you actually need to cook food. Well, I guess you can eat carrots without cooking them.

only 200 days to go !! Red Team at what point did you realize that Obama was going to win? Were you posting here then and made your views known?
In 2008 and 2012 polls clearly showed Obama was going to win, but neither year did the GOP believe it
Bookies are offering 6-1 odds on Trump wining and 30-1 odds on Cruz winning.
Care to take a chance?????http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-winner#Link6

@john:

solar cell panels are warranteed for 25 years ones that old are still in use and performing well

Check with the city of Jacksonville, Fl. they put in some huge solar fields. They say it costs more to maintain and operate them than the value of the electricity they produce.

All major US power producers are encouraging their customers to consider solar

My home electricity is supplied by one of those major suppliers and they have never encouraged me to change to solar.
We have extremely cheap natural gas where I live and could put in a gas generator/energy system and operate it cheaper than solar.

@kitt: And for the payback times for all you doubters? The shortest payback time is Hawaii high cost electricity and lots of sunshine their payback is 4-5 years
but here is a list of the top 10 fastest payback states (sorry WS isn’t on it but I bet its close Kitt)
The following is a run-down of which states are the best for solar in terms of payback time as of 2013:

Hawaii Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.1. Hawaii: Hawaii has the nation’s highest electricity costs at an average of 36 cents per kilowatt hour—that’s more than triple of Louisiana, which shares the nation’s lowest electricity costs with Tennessee, both of which average 8 cents per kilowatt hour. That high cost of electricity is because most of Hawaii’s energy is imported from the U.S. mainland in the form of diesel, which is used in generators on the state’s island. That high rate of electricity means solar is a winning proposition there, with a four-to-five year return on investment—shorter than some car leases. The state also has strong solar incentives, including a 35 percent state tax credit up to $5,000. The state also has the nation’s highest overall renewable portfolio standard (RPS) requiring its utilities to source 40 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by 2030.

Delaware Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL. 2. Delaware: Delaware, the first state and the tax-free state, also carries a five-year payback period for going solar. That’s despite having much lower electric costs that average about 14 cents per kilowatt hour. The state offers tiered rebates for residential systems. For each kilowatt (up to 5 kilowatts) homeowners are eligible for a $1,250 rebate ($6,250 for a 5 kilowatt array). For the next 5 kilowatts, homeowners are eligible for a $750 rebate. In all, a 10 kilowatt array would qualify for a $10,000 rebate. The state’s renewables efforts are also bolstered a 25 percent renewable portfolio standard by 2026.

In Delaware, a 5 kilowatt array will cost about $10,518 after the first year, according to Solar Power Rocks. The system will save the homeowner about $66 a month in energy costs and, acocrding to NerdWallet, the average electric bill in the state is around $132.80 a month.

Washington, D.C., Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL. 3. Washington, D.C.: Washington, D.C. isn’t technically a state, but perhaps more of a state of mind. That doesn’t stop it from making the list, however. Like Hawaii and Delaware, D.C. has a five-year payback period for going solar. That’s despite having a relatively low cost of electricity at 12 cents per kilowatt hour. The Capitol city offers a healthy rebate of $1,500 per kilowatt for the first 3 kilowatts, $1,000 per kilowatt between 4 and 10 kilowatts and $500 per kilowatt for kilowatts between 11 and 20. A 5 kilowatt array would qualify for a $6,500 rebate and a 20 kilowatt array a maximum of $15,500 in rebates. In addition, D.C. has a strong solar renewable energy credit market, with SRECs maxing out at $500 but averaging $320 per SREC in 2012—about $1,800 a year for a 5 kilowatt array. The district’s solar rooftops program is bolstered by a 2.5 percent carve-out for distributed solar generation as part of its 20 percent by 2023 RPS.

Connecticut Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.4. Connecticut: Connecticut has the nation’s second-highest average energy prices at 19 cents per kilowatt hour. Those high prices and Connecticut’s solar incentives mean that homeowners can recoup their investment in solar in about six years. Connecticut offers either a rebate or the opportunity to renewable energy credits produced by a solar array. The REC payments are low in the state—about $55 per credit and are expected to remain low for a while. Since it’s a market-based solution the price can go up or down. On the other hand, the state also has generous solar rebates thanks to the Connecticut Clean Energy Fund and the Clean Energy Finance Authority (CEFIA), which is tasked with supporting 30 new megawatts of residential solar by 2023. For systems up to 5 kilowatts homeowners can get a rebate of $2,450 per kilowatt—that’s $12,250 for a 5 kilowatt array. For systems between 5 and 10 kilowatts, the state offers a rebate of $1,250 per kilowatt, maxing out at $18,500.

New York Solar Radiation. Courtesy NREL.5. New York: New York, home of the Big Apple, is in the middle of the list this year. The state’s electric prices are higher than many states at about 16 cents per kilowatt hour, and a solar array pays for itself in about six years. The state has continued to bolster its residential solar offerings. A 5 kilowatt system in New York qualifies for an $8,750 state rebate and a 25 percent state tax credit (which caps out at 5 kW) or $5,000. That’s $13,750 off the price alone. In all, a 5 kilowatt array in New York carries an out-of-pocket cost of $5,455 after the first year—or $10,455 before the state tax rebate. However, the state doesn’t have an SREC market. Solar Power Rocks said the average electric bill savings is $77 a month. Nerd Wallet said the average electric bill in the state is $111.60 a month.

North Carolina Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.6. North Carolina: North Carolina has a lower cost of electricity than many other states on this list at 10 cents per kilowatt hour. Yet the state still has an estimated six year payback period for going solar. The North Carolina system is a bit hinky compared to most other states on the list. It doesn’t have a strong RPS or mandated rebate program across the state. “For now only customers of Progress Energy are eligible for a rebate. If you’re one of them, you can get a rebate of $1,000/kw on the installation of your solar power system, as well as a credit of $4.50/kw on every monthly bill,” according to Solar Power Rocks. However, the state does allow homeowners to take a 35 percent tax credit on a solar array up to $10,500. The state also has SRECs, which are solar through NC Green Power. Homeowners selling their SRECs need to sign an agreement with NC Green Power and their utility to sell them, however. For every kilowatt hour generated, NC Green Power pays 10 cents and the utility pays about 4 cents. Together that’s more than the cost of electricity in the state at 14 cents per kilowatt hour.

Massachusetts Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.7. Massachusetts: As of fall 2013, a solar array in Massachusetts will take about seven years to make a return on investment in Solar Power Rocks’ ratings. However, with new a renewed renewable effort announced by Gov. Deval Patrick (D) earlier this year, that payback period could shrink to five years soon. At 15 cents per kilowatt hour, the state’s electric costs are slightly higher than the national average of 11 cents per kilowatt hour. Patrick announced that the state would expand its solar energy target after meeting its 250 megawatts solar target four four years early. Now the state is targeting 1.6 gigawatts of solar. Massachusetts’ PV rebate is a little complicated since it includes an income provision. The rebate maxes out at $20,000. The base incentive is $750 per kilowatt up to 5 kilowatts or $3,750. There’s an additional $850 per kilowatt for households making less than 120 percent of median income in the state, totaling $8,000 for a 5 kilowatt array. In addition, Massachusetts offers a $100 per kilowatt rebate for locally produced PV and inverters. The state also has a strong SREC program with long-term pricing and a floor price of $285 per credit. If a utility isn’t purchasing enough SRECs they pay the state $600 per missed SREC purchase.

Solar Power Rocks reveals the average 5 kilowatt array is $5.30 per watt in Massachusetts, costing about $12,025 out-of-pocket after all rebates and incentives are considered. That’s the price of a small car. Massachusetts also offers long-term pricing for SRECs, which few if any states offer, an important factor in choosing to go solar. Solar Power Rocks also said such a system should shave about $75 a month off the average electric bill in the state. NerdWallet found the average monthly bill in the state is $92.90.

Maryland Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.8. Maryland: Maryland also has an average electric price of about 15 cents per kilowatt and at eighth place on the list, it also carries an average eight-year payback period. The state offers a grant of $1,000 for a solar system but does not offer a rebate. However, the state does have a decent SREC market with prices that ranged between $190 and 280 per SREC generated (1 megawatt hour) in 2012. Maryland has a theoretical SREC maximum of $400 per SREC. After all rebates, incentives and the first year of solar renewable energy credits are considered, the average out-of pocket costs for a 5 kilowatt system would be about $14,753. At the same time, a system that size would cut about $73 off the monthly bill, which NerdWallet put at $137.20 per month in the state.

South Carolina Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.9. South Carolina: The Palmetto State has a payback period of eight years for a solar array. The cost of electricity is just a bit above the national average at 12 cents per kilowatt hour. The state has a tax credit that allows homeowners to take 25 percent of the costs of a solar array off of their taxes. But they can only claim $3,500 in any given year. However, they can claim the credit over a period of 10 years. The state also has the Palmetto Clean Energy (PaCE) Program, akin to an SREC market. The program pays about 10 cents for every kilowatt hour of solar electricity produced by systems under 6 kilowatts. The average system would cost about $12,163 after all rebates and incentives are included, according to Solar Power Rocks. It would reduce monthly electric bills by about $64. That’s nearly cutting the average $135 electric bill in half.

Lousiana Solar radiation. Courtesy NREL.10. Louisiana: Rounding off the top 10 in 2013 is the old boot, Louisiana. The state has some of the lowest electric costs in the nation at 8 cents per kilowatt hour. However, thanks to the incentives, the solar payback period is about eight years. Chief among the incentives is Louisiana’s solar tax credit, which allows homeowners to deduct 50 percent of the cost of an array from their state taxes up to $12,500. The tax credit is on a per system basis. So if a home has more than one meter, it could qualify for multiple tax exemptions. With the solar tax credit, the cost of a 5 kilowatt array in the state is about $12,500, Solar Power Rocks said. Average monthly utility savings with a solar array is $42 a month. Despite having low energy costs, the average electric bill in the state is $120 a month, according to NerdWallet.

11. Eleven and beyond. Just because a state didn’t make the list this year doesn’t mean investing in solar is a mistake. Many of the nation’s leading solar states like California, Colorado and Arizona have an approximate 10-year payback period. But solar doesn’t have to have an up-front cost anymore. In virtually all of the U.S. states on this list (and some not on the list) people can have solar installed without paying anything out of pocket thanks to third-party financing (TPO) companies.
N.B.
this list was from 2013 solar panel costs are even less now
I can’t understand why your costs would be so high in WS Kitt especially if your handy sweetie could do a lot of the installation. Probably not the tie in to the grid but everything else. Your 60 year estimate is like 10 times higher than others. Do you in fact live under a dark cloud????

Ivsubmiteed a background check without buying
I also did a credit check without buying a new car

@john: What was the odds on Reagan with 200 days to go?

They didn’t count on Romney surrendering a month before the election to Obama. As long as the odds are 6-1 on Trump winning, I’d take those odds any day. You could probably get ole Rainbow pride himself to take those odds.

@Redteam: well then go ahead bookies are desperate to take money from people who think the GOP is going to win And are you equating Reagan with Trump for comparisson?

@john: Ah, gotta love that liberal math.

The state also has strong solar incentives, including a 35 percent state tax credit up to $5,000. The state also has the nation’s highest overall renewable portfolio standard (RPS) requiring its utilities to source 40 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by 2030.

So we’re talking Hawaii here. State tax credit of $5,000. Obviously that’s free, right? Someone has to pay that $5,000. I’ll bet it shows as a savings on the cost of electricity but does NOT show up as an increase in taxes paid. Utilities will have to source 40 percent of electricity from renewable sources by 2030. I guess that will be free to the taxpayers? Why will there be any utilities still in business in 2030 if solar is self sustaining? Why not just require every home owner and business owner to put in solar systems to provide all their electrical requirements if it’s as great as the picture they’re trying to paint?
You are just trying to portray a land of free milk and honey (as libs are wont to do) and it just ain’t gonna happen. The sun does not shine 24 hours a day.

@john: There are bear hunts here some with dogs there was a huge bear taken 1 county away from our vacation land a 780 Lb brute(not a record) that had to be dragged out of a cedar swamp by 5 guys in a sled, then loaded into his truck with a skidsteer. Its a specialized tag given out to only experienced hunters.
Class A licenses, also called harvest permits or kill tags, are awarded through a “preference point lottery system”.

@john:

In Delaware, a 5 kilowatt array will cost about $10,518 after the first year, according to Solar Power Rocks. The system will save the homeowner about $66 a month in energy costs and, acocrding to NerdWallet, the average electric bill in the state is around $132.80 a month.

John? Did you go to that same school that RW did? They don’t teach math there, as you obviously learned too late.
a cost of $10, 518 after one year will not be paid off in 5 years with a savings of $66 a month. Doing the math, that would take over 13 years. That of course, is ignoring the costs for all those years in between. If you finance the 10,500 at 5% for 15 years it will cost you $83 monthly. Take off that $66 a month you’re ‘saving’ (83-66=17) and your net bill only goes up by $17 a month. Tell us again what that payoff period is? Of course you’ll likely have to replace the whole system at the end of that time.
I’ve looked at solar too many times, it’s the latest liberal snake oil.

@Redteam: Please put links in I tried but couldnt find anything on Jacksonville solar problems You also never put a link in to that town in GA that had mandatory gun laws nad low crime
What state do you live in? That cost of running a natural gas genset. Are you assuming that the cost of fuel will be the same now as in 25 years and that the genset will still @Redteam: be functioning ?
You don’t like tax credits? you want high taxes on everything?
Hawaii is an extreme example look at the rest and

@kitt: Canned hunts–BULLSHIT—Join The Marines you f ing cowards–I hope the bear tears you to shreds. and serves you to his cubs.
Trump is getting worse as it goes–he-appeals to the dredge of society–if he gets the nom he’ll lose in an epoch landslide—majority of Repubs and Indies know this—-Dems. can’t wait.
Obama approval now averaging 52%–Trump and his 30% approval actually making BHO look better.

@Redteam: Red Team did you forget to subtract the tax credit ? of 6000$
Now redo the math
What state do you live in? or just pick up and I will try to find the cost and savings for you

@Rich Wheeler:

Trump is getting worse as it goes–he-appeals to the dredge of society

he’s damn sure got your attention.
Did all your sons serve in the Corps?
That’s supposed to be ‘dregs of society’, but…….
Some people (not me) do canned hunts, some people march in Rainbow pride parades. Some people eat sunflower seeds. Everybody gotta do their thing.

Dims. can’t wait.

Then why don’t they just go ahead and declare victory?

here are the numbers for New York quite impressive for a 5kw system
up front cost $21,200 up front costs minus incentives and rebates brings costs down to $7000 that works out to about a payback in 7 years
Your state may be different most are similarhttps://solarpowerrocks.com/new-york/

@john: I am spending my energy dollars on insulation, the foreclosure will be stripped to the studs and fully insulated, new outer storms, I am saving the craftsman charm on the inner windows.
It has a newer boiler but the old rads are not embossed so to increase space they will be replaced with the low long units. I will single zone the entry rad, find a cool old embossed one for the charm alone.(a splurge) Tankless NG water heater. All this should cut the utility bills by at very least a 1/3. dividing the house into 3 zones, the bedrooms and upper bath can be timed to cut energy use to that area during the day and the living area during the night , the entry (a small zone)a constant 68 degrees during heating season. With LED lighting I should be able to in 1.5 years get back to my 150 buck a month utility bill, gas and electric are combined here.

@john: What $6000? it said the cost after a year was 10K plus. That would have everything factored in. No need to re do the math, I did it correctly. But as I pointed out, that was only the cost after one year. Surely there are system upkeep costs over the life of the system, by the time you add those on, the cost is even more than the $17 a month. As you likely know, if there is a ‘cost’ every month to a system then the payoff period is infinity.
I live in Louisiana, so I see the calculations for that state. I have researched the issue several times, Every time some solar supplier comes by with a ‘super deal’ and I figure out it’s all about them making money. With their ‘they install it’ deals and paying them ‘with the savings’, after I do the math and get through laughing, they go on down the road. And even though it’s such an “outstanding’ can’t miss deal, they might have sold 3 systems in the city of 10,000 where I live. What did old Barnum say? A sucker born every minute.

and Kitt here are the numbers for you sorry WS isn’t as good as some but the payback time is 13years with a return on investment at 7.9%
That is lower tahn most WS doesn’t give many incentives https://solarpowerrocks.com/new-york/
but sure beats that 30-60 year time frame !

@john:

here are the numbers for New York quite impressive for a 5kw system
up front cost $21,200 up front costs minus incentives and rebates brings costs down to $7000

John, where does the difference in 21,2K and 7K come from? Is there a genie dispensing this money? Isn’t this just your deferred tax payments? If every family in New York applied for that 14K rebate someone’s taxes would go up, right? do you figure tax increases into these savings? Even if you finance the 7000 at 5% for 15 years, the payment on that would be $59 a month, so that would wipe out your ‘monthly savings’. Are you a solar salesman?

here is a nice easy way to look at your costs in Louisiana and you can lease not buyhttps://solarpowerrocks.com/louisiana/
briefly in your state upfront cost 20000 for the 5kw but you get a FAT 16000 rebates and incentives !!
your first year cost $3200https://solarpowerrocks.com/louisiana/

Red Team you live in a red state. They are offering HUGE rebates incentives. The most in the nation Yet you think that this is all some scam your GOP legislature is doing this to defraud you
Why? did Bernie make them do that ????

Without arguing Trumps merits or lack of, I’m having the devil of the time grasping why people think Cruz would do better in the general election against Hillary than Trump would. Unless you are maintaining that legions of Republican voters would stay at home if Trump were the nominee.

1980
March Reagan 31% Carter 60%
April ************ 32 ****** 40
June*********** 32****** 39
July************ 37** *** 34
Aug*********** 38 ***** 39
Sep*********** 39 ***** 39
vote ********* 51 **** 41

Wonder what the bookies lines were during those times?

@john:

They are offering HUGE rebates incentives. The most in the nation

John, you are apparently ‘dazzled’ by the fake numbers. tell you what, do the math through on this.
Say your elec bill is $180 You contract for a system to be installed, you get the rebates, apply them, then pay your elec bill and your contracted price per month, paid from your savings for X years. and at the end of 15 years, having added all the appropriate maintenance costs over that 15 years plus the increase in state taxes due to everyone in the state getting a rebate and tell me how much I have saved and how much it’s going to cost because my system has now reached the end of it’s usable life. Don’t forget to add in the monthly payment for the cost of the equipment that the rebate didn’t pay for.

One other little detail. This system is supposed to be big enough that I can disconnect from the power grid as far as usage, but I’ll stay connected to sell my extra back.