“Child” is defined as “a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.”
“Person” is defined as “a human being regarded as an individual.”
“Human being” is defined as “a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.”
There’s nothing here about being born.
Hillary made some waves this weekend when she asserted that unborn persons have no rights.
Todd asked Clinton “if an unborn child has constitutional rights” and Clinton replied, “Well, under our laws, that is not something that exists. The unborn person doesn’t have constitutional rights.”
An “unborn person”, i.e. not a “child.” Then she immediately backpedaled:
“Now that doesn’t mean that we don’t do everything we possibly can in the vast majority of instances to you know help a mother who is carrying a child and wants to make sure that child will be healthy, to have appropriate medical support. It doesn’t mean that you don’t do everything possible to try to fulfill your obligations but it does not include sacrificing the woman’s right to make decisions and I think that’s an important distinction that under Roe vs. Wade we’ve had enshrined under our Constitution.”
Bernie Sanders agreed that there is no “constitutional protection for the unborn.”
Planned Parenthood went apesh*t:
Diana Arellano, manager of community engagement for Planned Parenthood Illinois Action, said Sunday that Mrs. Clinton’s comments undermined the cause for abortion rights.
The comment “further stigmatizes #abortion,” Ms. Arellano said in a tweet. “She calls a fetus an ‘unborn child’ & calls for later term restrictions.”
Describing the fetus as a “person” or “child” has long been anathema to the pro-choice movement, which argues the terms misleadingly imply a sense of humanity.
The question arises- why do any of us have to contribute to pre-natal care for pregnant women? The things in the belly have no Constitutional rights, no protections. We as a nation ought not be obligated to pay for any of it- including abortions. Moreover, a man who wanted to avoid the financial burden of a child could conceivably inject a baby due the next day with potassium chloride to stop its heart and the only charge he’d face would be battery of the mother. The child born prematurely has Constitutional rights that the child going to full term does not. Think about that for a minute.
But as always, liberals are full of shit. When Chelsea Clinton announced her pregnancy she referred to the thing in her belly as a child:
In a surprise announcement and with her mother, former secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton, looking on, Chelsea, 34, said she and husband Marc Mezvinsky are “very excited” and “lucky” to welcome child into their family.
“I just hope that I will be as good a mom to my child and hopefully children as my mom was to me,” Chelsea said.
And so did a Clinton spokesman:
A Clinton spokesman later said the baby is due in the fall.
Not “future child.” Not “the thing that shall become a child when it’s born.”
A child.
This is so characteristic of liberals. If the thing in the belly is wanted, it’s a child. If not, it’s not a child. If the thing in the belly is in the belly of one’s daughter, it is a child.
Exit question: Chelsea Clinton is again pregnant. Does her baby, being of Clinton blood, have any Constitutional rights?
The Constitution is supposed to protect the most vulnerable among us. It is inconceivable that the Founders would exclude the unborn from those protections. James Wilson, a signer of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, wrote:
“With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and in some cases, from every degree of danger.”
It is a slippery and dangerous slope once the definition of life and the rights accorded to life is entirely dependent on the whims of people- dependent on whether a child is wanted or not. It is not a long journey to the place where to where one’s rights dissolve once one is comatose, asleep or simply old. One can easily imagine waking to see Hillary Clinton standing over you, a hand on each end of a pillow closing in on your face. Hillary once said “We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”
Your rights and your life could be among those things.
If a mom to be asks you to feel the baby kick and you don’t think that that child is worthy of rights and life, you are one sick bastard.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
Oh, yeah… this was all over the news, on every station, on every front page… oh, wait a minute. No, that was Trump answering a hypothetical question without realizing it was a trap.
Once again we see it exhibited that there is no such thing as a liberal principle… only political weapons and talking points. If the coldest and most inhuman among us wants to appear Motherly, she pretends to be excited about a birth. To pander to those thinking the quick route out of responsibility is abortion, that despicable gob of cells is nothing but nothing.
The Constitution says we are all “created “equal. So when is an individual person created? No rights in the womb? I dont know when I told my husband that the baby wanted a chocolate doughnut, he went to the bakery and got a dozen in case I wanted one too. When the little blob of cells decides in the last month of cell incubation that your ribs are a jungle gym, or it is not comfortable unless you sleep in the lazyboy, it knows exactly how to exercise its rights.
Hillary slipped up as she wasnt supposed to tell the feminist base what the feminist leaders been saying, doing, etc since Ernst Rudin (father of the holocaust) wrote articles for sangers Birth Control review…
which is why, pretty much all their policies, lead to population collapse in under 100 years for all who follow it. Abortion, infertility due to desease increase, fewer kids because of higher education/work, divorces, promoting homosexual relationships, debasing yourself as a social norm of bravery, waiting till your clock passes time… not to mention birth defects from liberating cigareettes (youve come a long way baby), alcohol, assorted other drugs, etc.
i am not saying anything about what to do or not to do, nor is listing something saying do it, stop it, promote it, but going from dominant population by wide margins to minority population in less than 50 years is quite a feat… and being below replacement births is deemed as unrecoverable.
why do you think the left had to import people and open the borders? if you didnt do that, and you didnt count their children, the victims of ideololical democide would notice..
the interesting thing is that the women that started this, are now being hated by the new rulers of the lefts movements as that is a racial one, which sees them as the source of the evil caucasian men…
These are just observations of person passing through on their way to the choir truimphant, so dont get all hissy.. i dont make policy, but i do have my eyes open.
Neither Church nor State has any right to deprive women of sovereign authority over their own bodies. Government has no constitutional authority to dictate that a woman must give birth when it is against her will to do so.
I don’t know where people imagine they get a right to push their religious views concerning when life begins onto those who don’t happen to share them, using government as the tool. There’s a constitutional principle specifically designed to keep government out of that area of a citizen’s life. Separation of Church and State was considered to be of such critical and fundamental importance by the Founders that it leads the list of Amendments to the Constitution.
You don’t have to like this, or all of the individual freedoms that follow from it, but you do have to accept it—or stop pretending that you support the Constitution and individual freedoms. Freedom to choose means that some people will make choices you don’t like.
@Greg:
Then prostitution and sex with minors should be legal in all 57 states.
@Greg:
I am not looking at this from a religious perspective, but from a scientific one.
@Greg: Then what right do they have choosing my level of healthcare?
The whole abortion issue is a vast leftwing conspiracy the feminists got the vote and a few other bells and whistles, they are now having the blind followers chase the same issue round and round cause they cant find a way to force the killing of all male children born until they can figure out how to get artificial sperm. Then guys…I’ll miss you
@DrJohn: And the rest of them too.
@kitt: Good point
@Greg:
Sovereignty over one’s body occurs before conception, except in less than >1% of all incidents of conception. Conception is a result of a previous decision, not a decision just like a hangover is the result of a previous decision.
You do not have the right to demand the government develop a solution (cure) to your hangover nor do you have the right to demand the services of others by insisting a doctor treat you for said hangover.
How a conception came about has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the State has any Constitutional authority to dictate that a pregnant woman must give birth. The State has no such Constitutional authority.
@Greg: Ok say I agree with you what of partial-birth abortion?
@kitt:
Greg believes its ok to kill a human being up to the age of self awareness, so PBA is no problem for him.
@Greg:
OK, then, so the State has no authority to tell a woman [prospective mother] what to do with the child she has created.
In the same vein, the State has no authority to tell a woman that she has to feed her child, put warm clothes on her child in the winter, let the child sleep in the house, or send that child to school. After all, it’s her child that she chose to give birth to, right? Property, nothing more.
And being the clueless moron you are, just exactly what do you think abortion does if not induce premature delivery of that child? Or do you think that if the woman decides not to give birth, that unborn child just magically goes away?
@Mully: Does he know they suck their thumbs and dream, can be startled, and feel pain? What exactly is self aware if not the ability to feel pain ?
@Greg:
Greg
Do you really think there’s a “smidgen” of difference in a baby the day before birth vs. the day of birth? Do you really think one is less than the other?
@retire05, #14:
Once a child has been born, we’re talking about an individual human being that does have the Constitutional rights of a human being.
This, of course, would be the same point at which those who want to mandate that every pregnancy ends in a birth suddenly become resentful about any talk of societal obligations toward the child that might require an increased expenditure of tax dollars.
So much for moral or logical consistency.
@Greg: You mean welfare babies? With all the different forms of birth control today no need for unwanted preggies. Make it shameful to be unwed mother, or irresponsible father, libs have taken all the good shame away.
Not to change the topic or anything, but:
Exit question: Chelsea Clinton is again pregnant. Does her baby, being of Clinton blood, have any Constitutional rights?
Exit answer: No, her baby, being of Clinton blood, has no constitutional rights. It has the privileges of royalty. Rights encompass responsibilities. Privileges do not.
@kitt: Why should any sentient being suffer pain merely to satisfy one’s taste?–adopt a plant based diet—-compassion–health–a sustainable environment
@Greg:
To have that position, you are going to have to determine exactly when life begins. When is that, Greg?
What is the demarcation between a so-called “right” and the murder of an innocent and helpless human life?
@Bill: Actually, California has a statute. If one murders a pregnant woman, he is charged with 2 murders. Is that hypocrisy or what?
@Richard Wheeler: Sorry dearie I like my meat, if they made meat illegal I would be a poacher. Here bossy bossy bossy, blam! I am not one that is so far from the food chain that all my meat comes all wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam plate. I do abhor the cruelty that some creatures endure before the go to a super market. Mega farmers pushing small farms out of business even in dairy.
Its not just taste it is food, everything born eventually dies, Some of us look on these AG animals as a resource. To be fed, cared for and then quickly and as humane as possible dispatched and used in our diet. I know you are a vegan organic farming needs poop a resource from an animal, human poop is not desirable as it is easier to transmit diseases andparasites that would not cross over from another animal.
@Richard Wheeler:
I don’t know, Rich. I hear that plants have feelings too.
@kitt:
Kurt are you confusing the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?
At what point dies a fetus become an Anerican citizen, upon conception ?
The Jews who write the Bible said most clearly that a fetus is NOT a human being with a soul, that occurs only after birth
@DrJohn: And you’re a Doctor? lol
Abortion wlll in the Bible if you think that your handmadien (sex slave) or wife has become pregnant by someone other than you what’s to do? well sure sounds like an abortion to me 19 And the priest shall cause her to swear, and shall say unto the woman: ‘If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness, being under thy husband, be thou free from this water of bitterness that causeth the curse;
20 but if thou hast gone aside, being under thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee besides thy husband–
21 then the priest shall cause the woman to swear with the oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman–the LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to fall away, and thy belly to swell;
22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to fall away’; and the woman shall say: ‘Amen, Amen.’
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a scroll, and he shall blot them out into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that causeth the curse; and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter.
— Numbers 5, JPS 1917.
From wiki
Ordeal of the Waters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
and of course since muslims are also “people of the book” they too have similiar teachings
Has Dr J stopped asking for admitting privileges at those hospitals that are continuing these murders? I think not
And if abortion IS murder then why are not women being punished ?
@kitt:
Make it shameful for the mother, but the father ? Is this a double standard here?
In the Old Testament it wasn’t shameful when you read that it was chock a block filled with sex outside of marriage. Remember that the sin of Onan wasn’t that he masturbated it was that he spilled his seed on the ground instead of into his sister- in -law as required by Jewish law
@Richard Wheeler:
Which animals that we eat are sentient?
@john: I know the story of the childless widow, and the law that the brother is responsible to care for the helpless widow. No welfare office back then, times so different, perhaps it better she be turned out die of exposure, women did not inherit the husbands things only his sons. She would have been destitute. Much more shame should be placed on irresponsible fathers.
@DrJohn: You’re the Doctor—check the definition of sentient-there’s your answer.
Off subject—how do you see the Republican race playing out?
@John: Where does it say a human has no soul until birth? Ecclesiastes 11:5
As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything
I have no gift of evangelizing this post is the last I will write in reguards to the bible the thread should take a scientific turn.
the whole pearls before swine thingee, Old testament vs New.
@kitt: Green manure can do the job—animal agriculture and resultant carbon monoxide emissions major environmental problem..
Reduction of meat consumption greatly increases water supply–take your showers and put ice in your gin and tonics!
@Richard Wheeler: It’s not a “major” environmental problem… or even a problem.
@Bill: You don’t think the release of massive amounts of methane gasses–not carbon monoxide– and nitrous oxide negatively affects the environment??
You must live in Texas lol
Off subject—how do you see Repub race playing out?
@Richard Wheeler:
Sentient really means awareness of one’s self.
I see a contested convention and suspect there will be some real surprises.
@DrJohn: Sentient–from Latin verb sentire-to feel taste or smell. sentient being–perceives and responds to sensations of whatever kind-sight, hearing, touch.
All the animals we eat are sentient beings–many are highly intelligent—in all cases Dr. they feel pain.
There is no such thing as “humane” slaughter
“Real surprises”—as in Kasich emerges as nominee–to me he is clearly the most qualified of the five remaining candidates–and the most electable.
@Rich Wheeler: Dying of old age aint such a hot way to go. Green Manure, sounds as efficient as recycling glass bottles back into glass bottles. Some really good even great ideas are on a large scale not cost effective.
Hillary is getting old and soft as she gets to see her grandchild, thinking of cells as a person geeze.
@Richard Wheeler: “Massive”? While warmists have been crying about “massive amounts” of CO2, the earth has failed to cooperate with the left wing agenda and warm accordingly. Cow farrts are not going to tip the scales; more scare propaganda.
I wonder why no one in support of unfettered abortion will answer the question of when it is safe to kill a molecular mass as opposed to when a human life is present?
@Bill:” Farts” aren’t the problem—would agree the gases emanating from The Donald are more dangerous than those from a cow..
You think we can send this character out to pasture?–or down to Palm Beach.
@DrJohn: 24
Absolutely correct. I’ve pointed that out to Rich before, but he chooses to ignore it because it doesn’t suit his needs/wants/desires.
He doesn’t even fully support his own position of not mistreating animals. He has admitted to slapping mosquitoes to kill them. Is that not ‘murdering’ an animal? He also doesn’t believe that if an animal swims in the ocean that it is an animal, uh, well unless it is a big animal, such as a whale.
Liberals are confused , uh, well, I was going to say ‘humans’ but they would probably object to that, depends on what stage of development their body is. Some might not be quite fully developed when they exit the uterus and are still not yet, human.
@Richard Wheeler: 36
What a silly notion. There was much more methane in the atmosphere thousands of years ago, must have been huge herds of dinosaurs.
The atmosphere remains in balance. There is still the same amount of water on the earth as there has been for thousands of years. The only thing increasing is fruitcakes and they concentrate in California.
@Rich Wheeler: 38
Really? you might want to pass on that bit of info to abortionists.
@Rich Wheeler:
I agree with this
@DrJohn: I heard an interesting comment on the news today. They said Kasich had 18 years experience as a Congressman. My thought was he has one year experience, repeated 17 times.
@Rich Wheeler:
adjective
1.
having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2.
characterized by sensation and consciousness.
noun
3.
a person or thing that is sentient.
4.
Archaic. the conscious mind.
@Greg:
I agree… and if she has a illigitimate child, she should not tag a man to pay for what her body does, cause his labor is about HIS body…
this is where the problem comes from.. not her body, but that her body and behavior (Even if the kid is not his) can assign him as a financial slave to her whims for 20 years…
this is sad cause men only have three forms of birth control
rubbers, which break and reduce contact
abstinance, making being with her when she wants him a negative
infertility for life, which is permanent unless wealthy enough, and could cost a future relationship
and that makes it all his fault, and his economic burden, as she has 23+ forms of birth control AND the state will give much of it to her for free…
she has rubbers, female rubbers, abstinance, infertility, the IUD, the birth control pill, the morning after pill, norplant, the sponge, the diaphram, cervical cap, birth control patch, etc
so we agree.. its her body
but do you agree its his body?
@Redteam: #44 Comvenience = humane.
@DrJohn: Clearly the majority of the electorate agree with you and me that Kasich is the best choice for POTUS.
Does it matter?