Angry GOP Voters and Donald Trump – The Enemy of My Enemy is Not My Friend

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I’m angry. I’m actually damn angry. I’m angry that Americans have twice voted into the highest office in the land a man who is demonstrably anti-American, who sows racial tension, who has sought to destroy free markets, who has turned much of the nation into a welfare state and who has crippled the American military and destroyed American influence around the world. To me, Barack Obama is a cancer on the American body politic and the nation.

But I’m not angry at Obama… well, I really am, but he’s not who has animated me the most in the last six years. It’s actually the GOP establishment. I’ve gone to Tea Party rallies near and far. I’ve voted for candidates who claimed they were conservatives. I’ve donated money, I’ve manned phone lines, I’ve put up signs along the highway. I even gave lectures on the constitution and started writing a blog. All for what?

We have Obamacare, lock stock and barrel, and its numerous exceptions, extensions and a plethora of executive orders. We have a NLRB that thinks it can tell companies where they can invest and who they must hire. We have an IRS that’s become a thug enforcement arm of the Democrat party. And of course we have trillions more dollars of debt than we did eight years ago.

Needless to say, I’m angry at the betrayal. In 2010 we were told that the GOP couldn’t do anything because they were a minority in the House. So we voted them into power. Then we were told that we needed the White House, and somehow the GOP was able to screw up an election that should have been theirs on a silver platter. Then in 2014 we were told that they still couldn’t do anything because Harry Reid ran the Senate. By 2015 he was on the sidelines. But now we’re told that they can’t do anything because Democrats control the White House.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 4 times shame on me. Exit poll after exit poll shows that Republican voters are livid with the GOP and want to burn it and Washington to the ground… hence the attraction of Donald Trump. Millions of people across the country who are disgusted with the GOP are flocking to the banner of a guy who will definitely not be held hostage to political correctness. A guy who doesn’t care about sucking up to minority voters. A guy who says what’s on his mind. Indeed, Donald Trump with his big business billions and his big mouth make many Americans stand up and say “Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about!” He makes them feel like an NFL receiver spiking the football right in front of a safety who blew his coverage. In a word, they want a winner who will destroy the liars in Washington.

The problem however is something that was revealed in a 2013 study by Washington State University. The first line of the piece says it all “Being confident and loud is the best way to win an argument – even if you are wrong”. The study basically suggests that people are more drawn to someone who sounds confident and is loud – even obnoxious – than they are to someone who’s right. And with Donald Trump that’s exactly what we have. GOP voters want someone who’s unabashedly pro-American. That’s Trump. They want someone who says he’s going to seal the border. That’s Trump. They want someone who’s immune to political correctness. That’s Trump.

Unfortunately, in this case the ancient adage “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is simply wrong. Donald Trump may indeed be anti-establishment, but that’s different than being pro freedom, pro prosperity and pro limited government.

Those are the things necessary to change Washington, the things that are necessary to rein in the leviathan of government, the things that are necessary to restore the freedom of the American people and unleash the prosperity that comes with it. Those are the things that Ted Cruz offers, but may not get the opportunity to execute because voters are too busy focusing on the bombastic guy at the other side of the bar.

That of course is Ted Cruz’s challenge over the next month: Demonstrate to GOP voters that trash talking will not fix what’s wrong with the county. Convince them that braggadocio will not dislodge an entrenched bureaucratic borg that seeks to control virtually every aspect of a citizen’s life. Articulate why his constitutional principles make him the correct vehicle for their anger, and not Donald Trump. If he can do this, there is some hope for redemption for the party as it’s redefined by conservative principals. If not, not only will the party be gone, but much of what made America great in the first place. Ideas like free markets and individual liberty are already on the ropes. Let’s hope they don’t go down for the count.

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Unfortunately, in this case the ancient adage “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is simply wrong. Donald Trump may indeed be anti-establishment, but that’s different than being pro freedom, pro prosperity and pro limited government.

Vince, please be specific. What exactly does Trump propose that will be anti-freedom, anti-prosperity and anti-limited government?

Anti-freedom: He wants to stifle the press: http://wapo.st/1oEZTuc

Anti-prosperity: He’s a fan of Kilo and imminent domain as well as free trade. Free trade has made the country much richer, but he would eviscerate it.

Anti-limited government: He has a history as a crony capitalist, often rubbing shoulders with government agencies of one sort or another to enhance his fortune. As president we would should not expect anything less from him…

@vince: His history means nothing to his followers, even if it was 5 minutes ago, his fidelity to anything meaningless to them. He is gonna build a wall!

Sorry – the math says that Ted Cruz cant get to 1237 and the 8+ states with majority of the delegates.

Trump now has 10 states where he won the majority of the delegates. He has a sizable lead in the delegate count.

I agree 100% – Trump is not your standard conservative and Ted Cruz is, but your post also points out that. It does not matter that much, he is conservative enough for the electorate.

Once nominated, then elected, the GOP Establishment will be as eliminated as we can legally get them to be.

Not calling for Ted to drop out. But after the next series of races, unless he WINS the majority of the delegates, he needs to drop out.

Trump & Cruz will by the time of the Convention better BURY THE HATCHET!

BECAUSE IF THEY DO NOT BURY THE HATCHET AND TEAM UP, THE GOP ESTABLISHMENT WILL BURY THE HATCHET INTO OUR BACKS

@vince: Anti-freedom: He wants to stifle the press: http://wapo.st/1oEZTuc

Anti-prosperity: He’s a fan of Kilo and imminent domain as well as free trade. Free trade has made the country much richer, but he would eviscerate it.

Anti-limited government: He has a history as a crony capitalist, often rubbing shoulders with government agencies of one sort or another to enhance his fortune. As president we would should not expect anything less from him…

Thanks for the specifics, Vince.
Donald Trump speaks in hyperbola.
Thus, he expresses his displeasure with how the dishonest press treats him as ”wanting to control” the press.
But what does he do and compare that to what Obama has already tried to do.
Trump denies certain reporters time with him.
Megan Kelly comes to mind.
But he gives Univision’s Jorge Ramos plenty of time with him despite Ramos’ false claims about him.
Trump shows up on other Fox News shows, just not Megan’s.
Now, Obama.
Obama didn’t like how Fox News covered him so he tried to say Fox News was NOT a REAL NEWS ORGANIZATION. He then tried to cut them out of the White House coverage of him.
Other news organizations had to close ranks around Fox News or it would have been silenced completely with regards the Obama Administration.

Next, ”anti-prosperity” with Kelo as your example.
First, Donald Trump encourages others to take the RISKS necessary to succeed in life.
That is the ONLY way to strike it rich here.
As to Kelo, in one way, Kelo was a good decision by SCOTUS.
It exposed a fatal flaw in local and state government.
As a direct result of Kelo 27 states have legislated against Kelo in their borders.
If other states put up with Kelo it is because their own constituents keep voting the leaders in who want Kelo.
One of the SCOTUS opinions even mentioned this as the best outcome, considering the way the law was written at the time SCOTUS faced it.
Businesses and cities where Kelo is still the law of the land would be idiots to ignore it.
If the people within their states don’t like it, they can follow the other 27+ states and outlaw it within their borders.

Then there’s ”free trade.”
Is it ”free trade” when a bunch of countries force the USA to accept bad trade deals?
Every year we fall another $1/2 billion behind China in traded goods.
Every year we fall behind Mexico another $50 billion in traded goods.
Every year we fall behind Japan over $70 billion in traded goods.
But, were we to go to BI-LATERAL trade agreements with these places, we could begin to dig our way out of those holes.
How is it ”anti-prosperity” to want that?

3rd, you wrote:

Anti-limited government: He has a history as a crony capitalist, often rubbing shoulders with government agencies of one sort or another to enhance his fortune. As president we would should not expect anything less from him[?]

Well, yes, we should.
He has said he will turn his business interests over to his family and won’t pay any attention to it after becoming president.
He has plainly said he would get rid of ObamaCare.
He has said he would get rid of Common Core.
He has said he would allow veterans to use private hospitals and doctors rather than the slow and bloated VA.
He has said he would simplify taxes, raising them on Wall Street hedge fund managers.
He has said he would rein in the EPA – a lot.
He has said he would loosen gun control laws imposed by Obama.
He has said he intends to negotiate pharmaceuticals instead of paying full price.
He has said he’d make military procurement more in line with what the military wants as opposed to what a crony capitalist is being rewarded to sell to the gov’t.
He has also said he intends to lift people out of poverty that puts so many on the dole, the government dole.

@vince:

Anti-freedom: He wants to stifle the press

First of all, a president cannot make the law. Secondly, he is talking about libel suits, where the press say something like “Joe Smith beats his kids”, allowing Joe Smith to better defend himself if the story is BS. The media must take responsibility for publishing some of the crap they do. Thirdly, it has nothing to do with the 1st amendment, as the proposal is not to stop the press from saying anything – just giving them the responsibility to have to defend themselves if they get, shall we say, overly-sensational.

He’s a fan of Kilo and imminent domain as well as free trade. Free trade has made the country much richer, but he would eviscerate it.

You were a little contradictory there, but I get your point. Free trade is indeed a good thing, but Trump is absolutely correct that global, multilateral agreements are stupid. Trade agreements should be bilateral, between 2 countries at a time. There should also be mechanisms in place to prevent massive trade imbalances.

Of course corporations love to be able to export manufacturing to other countries. It makes more money for them. But the government must balance that with the needs of the citizenry who needs good paying jobs. I think it is scandalous that GM, who the taxpayers bailed out a few years ago, is shutting down US production facilities, while setting up production in China of Buicks to be imported and sold in the US.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/01/12/made-in-china-buick-envision-key-to-sales-growth.html

I think it is fair to insist on a sliding import tariff, something like half of the difference. For example, if the US sells $10 worth of goods to China in a quarter and at the same time imported $12 billion, the difference is 20% allowing the US to place an import tariff of half that – 10%, on the imported goods. I would hope that such a mechanism would encourage importers to find domestic alternatives.

Anti-limited government: He has a history as a crony capitalist, often rubbing shoulders with government agencies of one sort or another to enhance his fortune. As president we would should not expect anything less from him…

Which he freely talks about and says he wants to change. All the other candidates are seem perfectly happy with the system as it stands, including the GOP establishment. At least with Trump he is rich enough that it would be very difficult to buy him off. And Trump knows more than anyone how ridiculous a lot of regulations are – since he’s had to deal with them extensively in real estate and other ventures. The other candidates might have read something about it in a book – they have no idea.

Sorry, but your arguments are either a stretch or simply a plea to keep the Status Quo, which the GOP has become quite comfy with over the past generation. After years of being a staunch GOP supporter, I’ve had it. I will not send them any more money. I might vote for the guy with an (R) next to his name because he is better than the alternative, but it is pretty clear that the GOP has become “Democrat-Lite” – bringing about Statism maybe a bit more slowly than the Democrats, but not at all interested in actually making any changes.

What we really need is a Constitutional Convention held by the states, where they can pass some new amendments (such as balanced budget, term limits, repeal of 17th amendment, etc) over the heads of Congress.

Interesting discussion. This disenfranchised voter is watching partisans of both the left and right with a comic joy verging on lurid.

Seriously, Bloviating Billionaire vs. Billary 2? I’d laugh my ass off it it were not so sad for America.

These election choices are the natural consequences of a nation dumbed down by a pathetic educational system that teaches memorize and regurgitate over critical thinking. The sound bite war is the whole “debate”. Most of what passes for journalism is not substantive, but “meta”.

Daniel Borstin was prophetic when he predicted this outcome over half a century ago:

Vince, I feel your pain. Sort of. Honestly, if you don’t see the futility of voting for the GOP to advocate a conservative agenda, then you are not paying attention to the last several decades of evidence that the two parties are the embodiment of the status quo.

Want change? Get away from the GOP as fast as you can. Quit voting for the lesser of the evils.

Same goes for Democrats thinking that Bernie or Hillary will change anything. That just isn’t the way the “system” works.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@vince: the libel laws need to protect people from a brazen media that can lie, do permanent damage to someone, and then not fear any repercussions. It’s wrong. Trump’s commitment to hold the media to reporting news, not opinions meant to steal votes, is one the BIG reasons I’d vote for him.

I have no college credits but even I know it is eminent domain
Remember the Conservative love object the almost now forgotten Keystone XL pipeline???
How could that have been built without eminent domain?
According to the GOP primaries your one true conservative seems to be able to win only about 25% of YOUR party’s votes. That doesn’t look like a winner to me in the general

Mi@John: #9
And it was Kelo, not “Kilo”
And Trump haters want to call ME “low information”.
I’m not going to argue with the rest of his claims. It’s pointless.
Too many lies, too many liars, too many false comparisons, too much emotion, not enough time.
The Trump haters are going crazy. Now, if we elect Trump, the world will end.
It’s Armageddon, I tell you! ARMAGEDDON!!!

@John: Dammit I have to agree about the eminent domain part of the post, if it is a corporation coming after your land first thing to do is hire an attorney that is familiar with the subject to do all the negotiations for you, there are some horror stories about XL. So bad a Nebraska Judge told Trans-Canada absolutely no.

Crossing the Line

@Petercat:
Top song of Dec 2012

Then the Myans were wrong.

@Nathan Blue:

The laws do protect such people. The problem is on the proof side. It is very hard to prove intent.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

Vince,
I would strongly suggest that you read the works of Joseph Goebbles and Edward Gibbon, History of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Gibbon’s work was written between 1776-89. Please read before you write your next review. Goebbles writings are fantastic and echo some of what you have written, can you read German?

Cruz is a great crusader for the constitution, but he’s a wonk who irritates people. Trump, a proven leader, could do well to get him on his side.

Cruz supporter Amanda Carpenter has started a list.
Who’s naughty, who’s nice.
https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/710122331897765888
So, definitely, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

@Nanny G: Is it so difficult for you to see why Conservatives don’t support Trump?–Have you read the posts from David or Dr Peter?—how bout Ret05?

Your thoughts

Bruce Mac “lying Ted” won’t be supporting The Donald this election cycle.—that’s a problem for the loud mouth.

I agree that Cruz would be the better choice. Trump probably has as little regard for the Constitution as Obama does. Although in fairness, Trump has probably never had to think about it much before

My theory is that people feel so betrayed by the ruling class that they are doing a “hail Mary play” with the firebrand populist. They know the system is so completely rigged against them that they are willing to take a chance on burning it to the ground and let the chips fall where they may. You gotta admit there is something likable in the guy so thoroughly despised by the established order.

I don’t think Trump supporters want to burn it down, I don’t. But anger at Repubs not following through on promises is huge.
You can’t judge Trump as a politician though. He’s in business, his goal has been keeping his customers happy which advances his business. And he always has his goal forefront and he doesn’t like not succeeding. Now his goal is the presidency and he’ll want to be remembered as a great president.

@Richard Wheeler: “lying Ted” won’t be supporting The Donald this election cycle.—that’s a problem for the loud mouth.
Lion Ted will support the Ducking Don should he become the nominee, he gave his word.
Don and John chickened out on the Fox debate, hard for them to make a case if they tuck tail.
Seems Rubio might not want to be second in your dream team he had said Ted is the only conservative left in the race.

@Nanny G:

Donald Trump speaks in hyperbola.

I don’t want hyperbole in a President. I’ve had almost 8 years of that. I want honesty, and solutions, aka Reagan 1980.

Thus, he expresses his displeasure with how the dishonest press treats him as ”wanting to control” the press.

Trump has enjoyed $1.85 billion of FREE TV time, most of it positive. And he whines like a little boy who wet his pants because not ALL the media is fawning over him? Give me a break.

But what does he do and compare that to what Obama has already tried to do.

News flash, Nan. Trump is NOT running against Obama.

Trump denies certain reporters time with him.
Megan Kelly comes to mind.

And his continual disgraceful tweets about her is shameful.

But he gives Univision’s Jorge Ramos plenty of time with him despite Ramos’ false claims about him.

Of course he does. They share common ground. They are both liberals only Ramos is honest about it.

Trump shows up on other Fox News shows, just not Megan’s.
Now, Obama.

Again, Trump is NOT running against Obama.

He has said he will turn his business interests over to his family and won’t pay any attention to it after becoming president.
He has plainly said he would get rid of ObamaCare.
He has said he would get rid of Common Core.
He has said he would allow veterans to use private hospitals and doctors rather than the slow and bloated VA.
He has said he would simplify taxes, raising them on Wall Street hedge fund managers.
He has said he would rein in the EPA – a lot.
He has said he would loosen gun control laws imposed by Obama.
He has said he intends to negotiate pharmaceuticals instead of paying full price.
He has said he’d make military procurement more in line with what the military wants as opposed to what a crony capitalist is being rewarded to sell to the gov’t.

Not one of those things are under the purview of the President. They are the responsibility of Congress and without them, Trump will never be able to fulfill even one of his empty promises.

Shame on you Nan for being hypnotized by the shiny object.

@retire05:
Do you think Ted Cruz, who has NEVER played well with others in congress, will suddenly develop the ability to negotiate solutions to all the things that need un-doing once Obama is gone?
I don’t.
He is as much an ideologue as Obama is.
As rotten as Obama was at working with Congress, that’s how bad Cruz would be.

Donald Trump knows how to set a high bar (maybe 150% of what he wants) then meet with his opponents and get a better deal than anyone expected.

After 8 years of Republicans buckling to Obama on everything, don’t you think that 70%, 80% or 90% of what we’d like to get would be a great improvement?
Or, are you such an ideologue that you’d rather get nothing but a pyrrhic victory?

@Robert What?:

My theory is that people feel so betrayed by the ruling class that they are doing a “hail Mary play” with the firebrand populist. They know the system is so completely rigged against them that they are willing to take a chance on burning it to the ground and let the chips fall where they may. You gotta admit there is something likable in the guy so thoroughly despised by the established order.

I would not go so far to say “burn it to the ground”, but certainly we want to shake it to the core, and let the weaker parts crumble. And I have to say that the more the Establishment (GOP or otherwise) scream about how bad Trump is, the more it makes Trump attractive. If the Establishment hates him, he MUST be doing something right.

@Nanny G:

Donald Trump knows how to set a high bar (maybe 150% of what he wants) then meet with his opponents and get a better deal than anyone expected.

That’s the key. He’s a businessman. Any businessman who is unable to negotiate doesn’t get very far. He’ll get Dems and Repubs from Congress into the White House and get them to talk turkey. It’s what he does.

@Nanny G:

Do you think Ted Cruz, who has NEVER played well with others in congress, will suddenly develop the ability to negotiate solutions to all the things that need un-doing once Obama is gone?
I don’t.
He is as much an ideologue as Obama is.

Wow! Nan. You have the Trump talking points down pat.

Yes, Cruz is an ideologue. His ideology is based solidly on our Constitution. I doubt that Donald Trump has ever bothered to even read it.

As rotten as Obama was at working with Congress, that’s how bad Cruz would be.

Foolish girl. Cruz will restore to the Congress its Constitutional authority, not usurp it as Obama has done. But Trump……………………………

Donald Trump knows how to set a high bar (maybe 150% of what he wants) then meet with his opponents and get a better deal than anyone expected.

What Donald Trump knows is the art of self promotion. He’s been doing it all his life.

After 8 years of Republicans buckling to Obama on everything, don’t you think that 70%, 80% or 90% of what we’d like to get would be a great improvement?

What proof do you have that Trump could actually achieve 10% of what he is promising? None.

Or, are you such an ideologue that you’d rather get nothing but a pyrrhic victory?

No, I’m a realist. I understand that Trump is doing the same thing Obama did 8 years ago; making great promises with no possibility of achieving those promises.

Odd, when given argument to why you support Trump, you do as all Trump supporters do, change the subject.

Ignore that Trump says he will bring jobs back from Mexico and China, yet he uses Mexico and China to manufacture his products. Ignore that Trump basically sells his name now, not build anything constructive. Ignore that Trump claims to be a “true” conservative now, yet donated $60,000.00 to Mitch McConnell to defeat a true conservative, Matt Bevin. Ignore that you whine about the GOPe, but Trump bought and sold more politicians than you can count. Ignore that Trump is a foul mouthed, bombastic ego maniac who only insults while giving no real solutions to the problems this nation faces.

I believe that if either Shillary or Trump is elected, this nation will fall to the ashes. I will not help you elect either fire starter.

Trump is a phony, just as Obama was and how sad you can’t see through him.

@Dreadnought: #23
Dreadnought, Nanny, forget it. You’re wasting your time.
Quit wrestling with that pig.
I mean, look at Retire05’s comments, for example. The hate just rolls off of them. No reasoning, just “I think”, I believe”.
No evidence to back up his claims. Unreasonable belief in his tin god, Cruz, and don’t you dare argue!
Claims that you are foolish for making unproven claims, then comes up with this gem:
“Foolish girl. Cruz will restore to the Congress its Constitutional authority, not usurp it as Obama has done.”
Personal insults, name calling.
You’re wasting your time, guys. As long as Trump haters stick to lies, emotions, distortions, and beliefs, attempting to have a discussion with them is pointless. They will ignore all facts, because THEY BELIEVE!

Somebody noted how Donald Trump has been given over a billion dollars in FREE advertising.
He does this via faux gaffes.

Bear in mind that each faux gaffe saves Donald Trump about a million dollars in advertising money. The idiot media just keeps falling for it, too.

There was a time, for maybe 48 hours, that Fox News tried to ignore Donald Trump.
But, during that period, watching Fox was like watching a child trying to get his way by holding his breath.
Fox gave up and went back to wall-to-wall Donald.

Now the RNC is discussing new rule changes at the last minute to thwart Trump.

@Nanny G: “faux gaffes”–priceless

Nust1982—#28 That’s hilarious–Thanks

It’s been determined there are two distinct kinds of Trumpers
[The generic term for the whole group]
First we have Leftists who only pretend to support Trump, these we will label as Trumpsters (Rhythms with Dumpster)

Definition of Trumpster
noun
1 A person or group favouring radical, reforming, or socialist views that feigns support for Donald J. Trump (Original family name Drumpf)
2 (often the Trumpsters ) [treated as singular or plural] A group or party favouring radical, reforming, or socialist views supporting the weakest candidate with unusually small hands.
’the Trumpsters are preparing to fight presidential elections’
’he is on the Trumpsters side of the party’
Origin
Old English lyft, left ‘weak’ of West Germanic origin and from modern English, the combination of Trump + Dumpster

The second are non-leftists taken in by the Trump scam:

Definition of Trumpfin
noun
1 A person displaying the cultist fascination for Donald J. Trump (Original family name Drumpf)
2 A person who refuses to listen to any reason or logic of the flaws their devotional figure.
‘I don’t care if Trump is a liar, I’m voting for him just the same because he’s truthful said the Trumpfin’
3 informal A gullible or easily deceived person.
‘What are you, a Trumpfin’?
Synonyms
bonehead, dimwit, dunce, fool, idiot, ignoramus illiterate, imbecile, moron, pinhead, schlemiel, schmuck, simpleton, tomfool
Derivatives
Trumpfian
Adjective
The display of cult allegiance to a scam artist, specifically Donald J. Trump
‘Trumpfian logic is no logic at all’
Origin
From modern English, the combination of Trump + fan (anglicized)

@Petercat:

I mean, look at Retire05’s comments, for example. The hate just rolls off of them. No reasoning, just “I think”, I believe”.
No evidence to back up his claims. Unreasonable belief in his tin god, Cruz, and don’t you dare argue!

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the typical Trump supporter. I presented valid argument against Trump, and Petercat gives is “na, na, na, na” in return.

Claims that you are foolish for making unproven claims, then comes up with this gem:

Obviously, Petercat, you suffer a reading comprehension disorder. I make no claim, I simply pointed out to Nan that the promises made by Trump are impossible for him to keep without the consent of the Congress.

“Foolish girl. Cruz will restore to the Congress its Constitutional authority, not usurp it as Obama has done.”
Personal insults, name calling.

Since when is “foolish” a pejorative?

You’re wasting your time, guys. As long as Trump haters stick to lies, emotions, distortions, and beliefs, attempting to have a discussion with them is pointless. They will ignore all facts, because THEY BELIEVE!

OK, you tell us exactly what Trump has done in his life that serves as a qualifier to be President of the most powerful nation in the world? Oh, that’s right; he’s a business man (whose businesses have filed bankruptcy more than once and who fleeced hundreds out of thousands of dollars), he rails on off shoring yet his companies are operating in China and Mexico, he has the moral standards of an alley cat (just ask Ivanka and Marla Maples), he’s a political opportunist donating more to Democrats than Republicans until recently, the list goes on.

Now, deny those things, Petercat, as you lead the cheering section for the carnival barker.

@Richard Wheeler:

That’s just what we need; a president who deals in “faux gaffes”, don’t you know?

How pathetic can Trump supporters get to come up with such a lame excuse?

Donald Trump is having a Town Hall here in Salt Lake City tonight.
I’ll get a report to you IF I can get in.
I have tickets, in my name, but I have heard that gate crashers muscle their way in so they can protest most of his rallies.
So, we’ll see.

Wheeeeeeeeeeee!
People lets look at what we are doing here, go back read the comments and instead of having a sane debate its name calling, insults and “labels”. Many discussions we could respect the opinions of others. While we tear each other apart the RNC is planning how to destroy both of these candidates, and slip in some milk-toast bastid that will not represent we the people but them, the assholes driving our great nation over the cliff. Hello Greece, Venezuela or worse.
There is ton of repair work to do the termites have reached the very core of the republic.
If we keep this up only a convention of states will shake the leviathan, its to the point where we may need that and to take this election to save our America.
We all want what is best for our country, can we agree on that?
At this point we are set on who want to win the nomination, trying to change the mind of someone who has made a different choice is pointless, but they are on our side, I know they want whats best for America too.
This convert or die attitude…really?

@retire05: Pathetic is right—a fake mistake? at least they could say it in English–damn elitists.

Kitt We do want what is best—that’s certainly not Trump or Hillary.

@retire05:

he rails on off shoring yet his companies are operating in China and Mexico

When you display such shallow and superficial understanding of the whole controversy of “offshoring” is, you destroy your own credibility.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with serving foreign markets with goods and services produced overseas. The only problem is when an American company produces goods and services overseas to serve the US market. As far as I know, none of Trump’s businesses do this. GM, Apple, Boeing, Walgreens, Motorola, Staples are examples of companies which do.

The enemy of the cultural Marxists’ useful idiot known as Vince is my friend.

Vince, you apparently spent too much time outside of our country’s borders and inhaling your French wife’s body odor to read the Constitution, specifically the natural-born citizen clause. The natural-born Kenyan has been a disaster which proves the wisdon of our Framers. Why do you think a natural-born Canadian pseudoconservative would be any better?

Ignoramuses such as you should not be allowed anywhere near a ballot. We need to institute poll testing.

@Skookum: I fear you’ve gone off the rails Marine.
“natural born Kenyan” “natural born Canadian.”
Have you read previous posts from Vince?
You’re venom sounds much like Trumps’—sad

@Richard Wheeler: You know I have too much respect for people to write that way.

I am in the background trying to write my novel between horses. I have 107,000 words, since October. It’s been an adventure, like a semester in college. The book is different from any other and it has a surprise ending.

The election is different as well; I think the next couple of years will test this country more than anything you and I have seen in the past.

In the future, when you see trash like that, just assume it isn’t me and report it to Curt.

Adios, from the real Skook

@Skookum: My apologies–I should know better.
Really looking forward to your book.

@Dreadnought:

When you display such shallow and superficial understanding of the whole controversy of “offshoring” is, you destroy your own credibility.

ROTFLMAO

There is absolutely nothing wrong with serving foreign markets with goods and services produced overseas. The only problem is when an American company produces goods and services overseas to serve the US market. As far as I know, none of Trump’s businesses do this. GM, Apple, Boeing, Walgreens, Motorola, Staples are examples of companies which do.

Well, except for the fact that Trump Ties and Trump Shirts are manufactured in China and Mexico for (wait for it, you know it’s coming) the U.S. market. Yep, that is the purest definition of “off-shoring” one can example.

Better to keep your mouth shut, Dreadnaught, and be thought a fool than to open it and confirm you’re a fool.

@vince

Anti-freedom: He wants to stifle the press: http://wapo.st/1oEZTuc

Sorry but demanding that the Press print the truth and having consequences for promoting false propaganda is not anti-freedom. Tolerating false propaganda without consequences “is” anti-freedom.

Anti-prosperity: He’s a fan of Kilo and imminent domain as well as free trade. Free trade has made the country much richer, but he would eviscerate it.

As per Pat Buchanan: Protectionist Tariffs were as American as Apple Pie and was known internationally as the American Model. Free Trade was known as the British Model. Our Manufacturing base and the middle-class began it’s decay under the new free trade policies. Free Trade may have made the rich richer but it has not helped the middle-class…

Anti-limited government: He has a history as a crony capitalist, often rubbing shoulders with government agencies of one sort or another to enhance his fortune. As president we would should not expect anything less from him… :

Illogical conclusion. Businessmen who follow the law are free to exploit the laws to their advantage. The behavior of a businessman engaging in maximizing the profits of a company cannot be compared to a President engaged in maximizing the profits (so to speak) of a country other than his/her commitment to success. It’s Apples and Oranges. It is more logical to assume he will follow the law and execute his responsibilities in such a way as to improve the bottom line of the Country. That’s what businessmen do…

@retire05:

Well, except for the fact that Trump Ties and Trump Shirts are manufactured in China and Mexico for (wait for it, you know it’s coming) the U.S. market. Yep, that is the purest definition of “off-shoring” one can example.

I forgot the clothing line – you are correct. He’ll have to explain that in regards to his campaign. However, you can’t fault a business for trying to get the best deal possible (he did it in 2004, as I can find) – and when it is cheaper to buy something from the other side of the world and ship it here than to find a domestic supplier, we have a problem.

By the way – I just checked his website, and apparently he’s changed the sourcing – It’s made in USA now.

http://shop.donaldjtrump.com/

@Dreadnought: Those ugly hats are made here and overpriced at $30–His cover your stomach ties–not big enough for Chris– and most of his shirts, are currently made in China.

Anybody tried his steaks, wine or vodka?-

@Dreadnought: Trump has stated he will have, in the future, all of his clothing line and his Daughters made in USA, it takes time to make these type of changes. I hope he keeps his word on this, and any future products he has his name stamped on. I stopped paying 65 bucks for Levis when they are no longer made in America, the quality isn’t there any more.

@Richard Wheeler:

Obama’s father was a Kenyan citizen; thus, Obama is a natural-born Kenyan, actually a natural-born citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies per natural law.

Cruz’s father was either a Canadian or Cuban citizen when he was born; thus, Born-Near-the-USA Ted is either a natural-born Canadian or natural-born Cuban.

Both Obama and Cruz were, at best, naturalized at birth by US statute, man-mad law, not natural law. Naturalized citizens are ineligible for the presidency and cice presidency. The Constitution grants Congress authority over naturalization; neither Congress nor you or Vince may amend the Constitution by expunging “natural” from the natural-born citizen clause.

You need to read your Constitution.

Prior posts from the anti-Constitution Vince are irrelevant, as is you vacuous reply. One is as good as his last post. You and Vince are proven anti-American filth.

@retire05: #29
You are one nasty, spiteful customer aren’t you.
Nope. Not going to play your game. Why should I waste my time providing sources and quotes, it won’t accomplish anything.
You are free to do what I did, read every book that Trump has written. They cover about twenty years, and offer excellent, consistent insight as to who the man is and what he believes.
But it’s easier for you to just repeat the lies and distortions that other people have fed you, isn’t it? Anything else would require actual thought.
As far as being a Trump cheerleader, well, not long ago I did not care for the man at all. I was a big Cruz supporter. But back then, the only information that I had on the man was what the media provided. When he announced his run, I decided to do my own research. My biggest discovery was that I had been lied to.
So now I support him, yes.
As far as what you said here:
“I believe that if either Shillary or Trump is elected, this nation will fall to the ashes. I will not help you elect either fire starter. ”
So if you don’t get the candidate you want you’re going to take your toys and go home? Run, child, run fast.
Personally, I consider myself a patriot, and I will be damned if I just roll over and let Hillary have it. I will vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, in order to prevent that. Even Kasich or Rubio would be better than her!
But then, unlike you, I actually love this nation and refuse to help Hillary get into office just out of childish spite.

@kitt: #43
I stopped buying them when they started charging by the yard and I couldn’t afford them any more.
(Just kidding… sort of. I’m not that fat!

@kitt: #32
It’s funny that you bring up the “convert or die” attitude. That’s one of the reasons that I gave up on Liberals, so many years ago. The whole, “If you don’t agree, you’re stoopid!” way of changing minds and gaining support. Now it looks as if I might as well give up on Conservatives as well.
It’s lonely being a Libertarian. Sort of like being a single parent in a room full of fractious children. I’m kind of glad that whoever is elected will probably be the last president that I see. I’m tired of watching this great nation fall.

@Petercat:

You are one nasty, spiteful customer aren’t you.

Only in the minds of those who have decided to become The Don’s Lemmings..

Nope. Not going to play your game. Why should I waste my time providing sources and quotes, it won’t accomplish anything.

Did I ever ask you to provide “sources and quotes?” Nope., Just as Nan who posted a litany of things she believes Trump will do and I pointed out that those things could only be accomplished by Congress, never disputed that.

You are free to do what I did, read every book that Trump has written. They cover about twenty years, and offer excellent, consistent insight as to who the man is and what he believes.

Why should I waste my time any money on reading any book I think is nothing more than one large commercial for a malignant narcissist?

But it’s easier for you to just repeat the lies and distortions that other people have fed you, isn’t it? Anything else would require actual thought.

Why lies? What distortions? That Trump is the most rude, crude and abusive presidential candidate in the history of our nation?

As far as being a Trump cheerleader, well, not long ago I did not care for the man at all. I was a big Cruz supporter

Well, considering that Trump is no more conservative (until recently) than Hillery, that must now pose a problem for you.

.

But back then, the only information that I had on the man was what the media provided. When he announced his run, I decided to do my own research. My biggest discovery was that I had been lied to.

Lied to how? Please stop speaking in generalities.

So now I support him, yes.

Your choice. Millions of low information voters have joined you.

As far as what you said here:
“I believe that if either Shillary or Trump is elected, this nation will fall to the ashes. I will not help you elect either fire starter. ”
So if you don’t get the candidate you want you’re going to take your toys and go home? Run, child, run fast.

I knew that Obama would be a disaster. He has been. Trump will also be a disaster just as Shillary will be. Why should I vote for either fire starter?

Personally, I consider myself a patriot, and I will be damned if I just roll over and let Hillary have it. I will vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, in order to prevent that. Even Kasich or Rubio would be better than her!

Ah, but if Trump is the Republican nominee, Hillary will have it. He cannot defeat her.

But then, unlike you, I actually love this nation and refuse to help Hillary get into office just out of childish spite.

You arrogant twit. What gives you the right to say anyone else does not love this nation? Who died and left you God? Damn, you Trumpeteers are actually worse than the Paulbots were.

@Petercat: It was my belief that the mark of a conservative was evidence of position in any argument, the name calling, names or labeling a leftist tactic to shut down conversation when that happens they think they have won, in actuality they just have no evidence for their side of the conversation. I looked at choosing a candidate as if I were hiring, The only way to see if this applicant is right is to look to their past and resume.
No one on Dons side has been able to provide proof that Ted is actually a liar, his ads against Trump use Trumps own words to make his point, oh but Trump has changed his mind, Trump himself has said he can change into whatever he wants. What ever he wants… when ever he wants. He loves to play the victim card, they are not fair to him. Thats a little too unpredictable a bit too whiney, he loves to call names thats a bit too liberal like, for me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, my sister is a trumpanzee, her son is a cruzite she will not disown him and she is welcome over for coffee. When we get together we bash Hillary and Sanders, we used to bash Obama but he is nearly sooo 5 minutes ago. We all love our country.
Hey you didn’t pig down all that popcorn did you? Well if so I’ll nuke a couple of bags of Orville. 😛 😛

It’s really simple. Support Trump or live with Hilary. Other choices are, at this point, pure fantasy.