Cleveland Convention Chaos, Donald Trump and the Rule of Law…

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Those who say that if Trump has a plurality of the delegates by the time the GOP gets to the convention he should be given the nomination, sound like a vapid Miss America contestant calling for “World Peace”. That’s not to suggest that Trump shouldn’t walk away from the convention with the nomination, but rather simply, that it shouldn’t be his by default.

There’s an easy way for Trump to guarantee that he walks away from the convention with the nomination: Win 50% +1 delegates. It’s actually that simple. As the rules are written, that’s what a candidate needs to secure the nomination. It’s said that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades… and a plurality may be close, but it’s not 50% +1.

If the point is to give the nomination to the guy with the most votes, then why didn’t the rules committee make that the rule? They could have, but they didn’t. So what we have is a scenario where someone could walk into the convention with 49% of the vote and not walk away with the nomination. “Gee, that’s not fair…” So let’s just give it to him! OK, well, then, let’s say instead of 49% he had 36%… do we do the same? How about 29%? Or how about this… we anoint the guy with 26% of the vote over two other guys have 25% each and where 74% of the voters want someone else?

There are endless scenarios that can play out if we simply toss the rules, but the fact of the matter is, the whole point of the multiple ballots at the convention is to create a framework for choosing the nominee when there is no clear winner. That involves horse trading, deal making and different candidates jockeying for position. That might not be as pristine as the newly driven snow, but things rarely are.

This of course creates an opportunity for the despicable GOP establishment to take advantage of the situation and try and foist some failed candidate like Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush on us, but it’s their right to try. It’s just up to the delegates to not let them. If that were to happen there would no doubt be a revolution, but sometimes you can’t save a party from itself any more than you can a person.

The bottom line is, those making this argument are making the argument that Al Gore should have been sworn in as President in 2001 because he won a majority of the votes. “It’s only fair…” But that didn’t happen because that’s not how the rules were written. Indeed, if we are going to throw out the rules and go with what’s “fair” then we might as well not have rules in the first place. That’s the difference between rule of law and the rule of man. One gives participants a clear understanding of how the rules work and motivates them to work within that framework for particular goals clearly understanding the possible outcomes and potential consequences for their decisions. The other provides none of that clarity as rules change as the powerful manipulate outcomes favorable to them, giving everyone the motivation to curry favor with the powerful and take advantage of the weak. One fosters freedom and prosperity while the other fosters duplicity, obsequiousness and treachery.

We already have one president who has decided that the limitations of the Constitution don’t apply to him… let’s not start the next one down that same path by the party telling him that the rules only apply when they work to his advantage.

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Vince, you wrote:

This of course creates an opportunity for the despicable GOP establishment to take advantage of the situation and try and foist some failed candidate like Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush on us, but it’s their right to try. It’s just up to the delegates to not let them. If that were to happen there would no doubt be a revolution, but sometimes you can’t save a party from itself any more than you can a person.

Problem is the two terms, ”the despicable GOP establishment,” and, ”the delegates,” are interchangeable.

The delegates are the GOPe.

When a primary takes place a slate of delegates are listed.
They are apportioned out based on either proportion of popular vote or winner-takes-all.
But very few candidates put up their own dedicated delegates.
Mostly delegates are GOP party operatives, state-level elected people and even city and county elected people.
They are only bound to their candidate on the 1st ballot.
After that they are free to support whoever they please.
For most of them that will be either Bush or Rubio.
Since Bush and Rubio have a few delegates already, it will be easy for freed delegates to add themselves to their pot after that 1st ballot is out of the way.

@Nanny G: Nan, you may indeed be right, but theoretically the opportunity exists for someone, Cruz or Trump or Kasich to make the argument that the delegates should support them and drive victory. Of course the delegates can ignore voters and do exactly what leadership wants them to do, but as I said, you can’t necessarily save a party from itself. While I think a Trump presidency will destroy the GOP, I think a convention that puts an establishment lackey like Bush or Romney at the top of the ticket will do the same, only for different reasons.

This morning I saw Carly stumping for Ted, It would be great to see his campaign really tout his message beyond beating Don and get his message of limited government for true growth for America to the forefront. Carly-Cruz is a better picture than Sarah-Don, Her business input with constitutional conservatism, she would be a great vice choice, controlled, calculated and intelligent. Only thing missing in this mix is military too bad Norman isn’t with us anymore.

The concepts of rule of law, losing graciously, sharing power, and being a loyal opposition have taken a real beating this last 15 years. They’ve been replaced ruthlessness, the will to power and a violent disdain for fellow Americans not seen since the Civil War.

That’s why, no matter who wins this one election, we’re most likely doomed.

It’s said that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades

it also counts in pregnancy and nuclear weapons…

@Artfldgr:

I’ve pitched horseshoes. I’ve lobbed grenades. Only pregnancies were by choice of me and my lovely wife of 36+ years. I haven’t launched any nuclear weapons but still applaud HST’s courage to do so under the circumstances.

Every attempt to derail Trump has so far failed. When the whispers are of GOP bigwigs voting for the one who supported her rapist husband rather than the clear winner Republican nominee, one has to wonder. These are the same ones who told us to hold our noses and vote for their sh*t for brains candidates like McCain and Mittens Romneycare. Party unity and all that is only good if the party candidate is the Elite’s chosen (can you say ‘bought and owned?’) candidate.

Problem with supporting Cruz:
Ted Cruz: “Listen, Donald does well with voters who have relatively low information, who are not that engaged and who are angry and they see him as an angry voice. Where we are beating him is when voters’ get more engaged and they get more informed.”

Okay, Teddy Bear, you were right up there at the top of my list, and if you are nominated, I will vote for you in the general, but for now? F**k you. That’s all, just f**k you, buddy.
I am so sick of being portrayed as a stupid, ignorant backwoods hick because I support a candidate that others don’t like.
And I am sick and tired of people- news mouths, politicians, other commentors… who are apparently stupid or arrogant enough to believe that the way to gain support is by insulting others like me.
The Republican party is eating it’s own, and won’t survive.
And for all of you bitter, nasty people out there who post, or comment on posts here and elsewhere, you’re not going to convince anyone. But that’s not what it’s about, is it?
It’s about you thinking that you have a reason to be as nasty, vicious, arrogant and insulting as you want to be without any civil restraints.
Well, go right ahead. Let your vitriol flow freely. It won’t accomplish anything, but if it makes you feel superior to insult Trump supporters, well, go for it.
Just like I did here. No, it won’t accomplish anything, no it won’t convince anyone. All I managed to do here was to stand up for myself and others like me. But that’s enough. For now.

http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2016/03/10/brody-file-exclusive-ted-cruz-says-donald-trumps-voters-have.aspx?mobile=false

If Florida is such a must win for Rubio why isn’t he running a single ad there, what a scrappy under-dog. He is playing a spoiler thats the whole of it.
Say Cruz or Trump is the Nominee and loses cause people sit home…
Why allow Hillary the office?
“Cause Cruz was kinda a dick.”
“Cause Trump has a potty mouth”
splain that to the kids

The problem is not that the GOP establishment would want Trump to lose in an open convention, but rather that they would be going against the will of the people and perhaps lose the election. The kind of contempt we see by the GOP establishment is the kind of unfairness Trump said would drive him to bolt from the GOP.

Ted Cruz is a worthless piece of sh*t, Marco Rubio is nasty (talking about Trumps hands in relation to his sexual member), and over all people are sick of Kasich.

Both Cruz and Rubio, being Cubans, have a hidden agenda of promoting lawless illegals coming across our southern border; justified by their own immigration roots..

These hard core politicians (Cruz, Rubio and Kasick) all of them a) have not created jobs, b) have no business experience, c) rank low when it comes to the economy, security, and job creation, and d) are part of the establishment.

Besides Rubio imitates Obama, is worse than Obama, for not showing up to vote in Florida. This is a dereliction of duty to voters of Florida and is unforgivable. Perhaps Rubio does this on purpose so he won’t have to explain taking sides; to his own demise.

Romney, being the favored of Satan, is a loser-at-large. His absolute lies and bearing false witness make him a Mormon disaster, no less than Harry Reid, a fellow Mormon favored of Satan (Reid, like Pelosi (a Catholic) promotes abortion of any kind). It’s amazing that Dope Francis has not excommunicated her; but it is no wonder since Dope Francis is getting into politics — opposing an American security wall and then going back to the Vatican, which is completely surrounded by a security wall. This reminds me of Obama’s hypocrisy with regards to gun control for Americans — but he won’t disarm his body guards. Hipocracy of the stupid lame.

Trump has unleashed a tremendous desire on the part of the people in America to see politicians free of connections and money to lobbyists and government cronies. Every day more and more people are getting together to bring Trump to the zenith of political enthusiasm.

No more Johns; such as John Roberts (a traitor to conservative values), John Boehner (a traitor to conservative values), and no more John Kasich (an Ohio loser less popular than Mitt Romney and Marco Rubio). All of these Johns prostitute our democracy.

@AdrianS: You’ve managed to bash every one from John Roberts and John Kasich to Pope Francis—Mormons, Cubans, Catholics—-HOW bout Blacks and Jews?
You think Trump is our savior– nuff said

Fox News Poll out today has Kasich up 4% on Trump in Ohio–We’ll see

@Richard Wheeler:

Get in line to pounce on Trump. But don’t hold your breath. Americans know people like you are thorns in the side, a fly in the ointment, dumb as they come. You need to read a little, or a lot, more about Trump. You say I bash Mormons and Catholics; I bash you because that is not what I wrote. Specifically, I bashed only those mentioned.

But I don’t expect people like you to know or understand what they read without their own prejudices blinding. JOHN KaSICK is a nobody. What good would it do for him to win in Ohio? He’s so far behind you need a map and a magnifying glass to find him. You are fired.

@AdrianS: You are a true Trumpeteer—I’m Trump’s age and grew up in N.Y. I’ve watched him show up every 4 years—sometimes a Dem–sometimes an Indie–always the same basic shtick. He’s always been sent back to Palm Beach by Christmas. He’s a flim flam man–a narcissistic, blowhard, self promoter.
A Kasich win in Ohio and continued strength from Cruz means an open convention—anything can happen at that point–Trump’s got more detractors than Trumpist lemmings like yourself. Hang on..

But no one told djt and his followers that these were the rules.. so they should be changed to what djt and his followers want them to be.

How about no.

@Richard Wheeler:

He’s a flim flam man–a narcissistic, blowhard, self promoter.

So, in other words, the ideal American politician.

There, I said it. The “P” word.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@James Felix:

That’s why, no matter who wins this one election, we’re most likely doomed.

Sorry to say, but you are probably correct. We’ve been in a decline for awhile now and that decline has greatly accelerated the last seven or so years through divisive leadership, abuse of power, and complacency of “We the people”. The new motto in this country is, “Ask not what you can do for your country, but rather ask what your country can do for you.” Too many Americans either don’t care or have been bought off by government handouts. The only reason we haven’t fallen by the wayside like the other former “powers” is that we were so much better than them.

As for Trump, I will not vote for him in the primary but if he gets enough delegates to secure the nomination, the Republican Party had best not subvert it or they will fracture as a party. They helped bring this upon themselves.

@Richard Wheeler:

One thing you and other lemmings seem to ignore is that Donald J. Trump is a very successful business man. Romney criticized him like the ignoramus that Romney is. Trump on the other hand showed Romney much negated successes when he displayed his winery, his magazine, his water company, his steak business, etc. After that there was no Romney left; not even a slimy piece of him on the floor.

You don’t know Donald Trump. From what you write, you’re just a fly in the ointment. The day I believe that Trump is a 10 BILLION dollar flim-flam man is the day I start living the way you do — without a hint of a direction as to where you’re going.

As for Romney, forget it. Satan will know what to do with his ass after he chews him up and spits him out on the floor.

@AdrianS: Don’t forget the cardboard cutouts with The Donald that students got for their 36Gs tuition at Trump U. His press Conference looked like the Home Shopping Network
Has he ever told us which bad foot kept him out of going to V.N?
My direction’s been just fine thank you– Looking out over Pacific and Catalina Island-and I didn’t get a million dollar start up from my father.

Satan?

Semper Fi

@Richard Wheeler:

Semper Fi comes from the Latin. In Spanish it is siempre fiel, always faithful. Are you?

Your mistake is you don’t favor anyone. Marco Rubio as well as Ted Cruz are seriously lacking in many ways. And Kasick is a way insider; an establishment figure up to no good. Truth is most of the remaining candidates have either moved in the direction of Trump or are imitating him. On the border fence and national security, on education, on trade and commerce, on the 2nd amendment, on Social Security, on the futility of Gun control, on support for our Veterans, etc.

I’ll take Donal J. Trump’s successes any day of the week. And, no. Your direction is not OK. You’re welcome very much.

@Petercat: #8

Ted Cruz: “Listen, Donald does well with voters who have relatively low information, who are not that engaged and who are angry

Petercat, I agree with you. This was actually shocking, coming from a former prosecutor. Insulting and demeaning so many members of the public he should want to ‘appeal to’ and attract to his tent, is no way to make friends. Cruz needs to take a course on ‘selling’.

@AdrianS: #10

Trump has unleashed a tremendous desire on the part of the people in America to see politicians free of connections and money to lobbyists and government cronies.

AdrianS, to very many people, this is why they support Trump regardless what he says or does. With a guy like Trump, he’ll do what he says he will do. He’s not a narcissist, IMHO, though he has a rather insecure ego. BUT, it’s that ego that would lead to him to do whatever he can possibly do to turn America around, to make it great again, . . . and it needs turning around, badly and urgently. He isn’t an ideologue, but then, look at what the current socialist ideologue-in-chief has done to the Nation.

While Cruz seems to wear a conservative mantle, some of his actions lack any degree of common sense — remember what he did along with Rubio, handing Obama a clear road for his TPP? And TPP is a disaster that that bunch of billionaires who met this week to strategize on how to BEAT TRUMP, are so strongly supporting.

@Richard Wheeler: A Kasich win in Ohio….

Is as far as Kasich is going, Richard.
Kasich was never supposed to be a national GOPe candidate.
Kasich’s role was to block a momentum candidate by splitting the voting base in Ohio. Each of these candidates had a role to play in the GOPe road map for Jeb Bush.
And, we all saw how that strategy worked out once Trump entered the mix.
Trump overwhelmed the “splitter strategy“, and , after Bush dropped out, the GOPe strategy shifted from “splitting” to “blocking“.
Kasich is not on all the ballots where the GOPe need has shifted.
Kasich is not on all the ballots in Illinois.
Now Kasich is resting his hopes on a technical ruling in Pennsylvania to help him get on the ballot there.
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2016/03/09/For-John-Kasich-a-battle-over-signatures-to-appear-on-Pa-primary-ballot/stories/201603090216

Kasich and the GOPe knew Trump was messing up their plot.
Why hadn’t he bothered to get on the ballots in ALL 50 states?
He’s not a serious candidate.
But the way the delegate voting goes after that 1st ballot might put him in the running as our presidential nominee.

@Nanny G: EXACTLY—You say he’s not a serious candidate but he can win after the first ballot. Ha
BTW If you take the time, you will see he is the most qualified—through experience–of anyone, either Party, running for POTUS.
Do you like Carson as Trump’s V.P?

@Richard Wheeler: Do you like Carson as Trump’s V.P?

No.
I would prefer Dr Carson as Surgeon General.
Rumor is Dr. Carson will endorse Trump on Fri.

@Richard Wheeler: You say he’s [Kasich is] not a serious candidate but he can win after the first ballot.

He’s great as long as you prefer the race-to-the-bottom wage-wise of TPP.
He’s great is you believe that we can spend our way out of global warming.
He’s great if you want to keep ObamaCare.
He’s great if you want to keep Common Core.
He’s great if you don’t mind the budget blowing up, like Ohio’s will soon.

Sounds like a Democrat.
No wonder you like him!

@Nanny G:It’s not a rumor–tomorrow in Fla.–predict Donald will pick him as V.P.
Kasich most qualified and most electable.

@Richard Wheeler:

Kasich most qualified and most electable.

That’s no longer needed after Obama. Anyone can run…experience is a hindrance, actually (see demagoguery 101).

If Jay Z and Green Day like Kasich, that’s all the electorate needs…

@Nathan Blue: Trump’s got David Duke’s endorsement–That should do it.

@Petercat:

Well said. I agree. By taking cheap shots at fellow Republicans, Cruz just showed us the typical Washington D.C. attitude towards the voters.

@Richard Wheeler: “Trump’s got David Duke’s endorsement–That should do it. “

Spreading that lie again? I already (after a scant fifteen minutes of digging through similar such propaganda,) posted links that proved to you earlier this week, that your good buddy Duke stated on his very own blog that he ‘had not endorsed Trump’ and that Duke ‘had problems with Trump’s support of Israel.’

But then again you Democrats so do admire your KKK brethren like the late grand dragon Robert Byrd. (Hillary, Bill and Obama seemed so grief stricken at the the clansman’s funeral) Did you shed a tear or two for him Rich? Yet, I can see by the racist history of the Democrat Party, where you would be attracted by such men like Byrd & Duke. Is that why you don’t support Trump, Richard? Because your ol’ pal David Duke wont endorse Trump either?

@Nanny G: Not necessisarily are the delegates establishment. They are just the engaged. I will be a Texas delagate to at least the state convention and I’m going specifically to support Senator Cruz. Now I do think Trump will be disadvantaged because he/his campaign have not done the necessary ground work, I.e. His people put in the hours helping the party elect republicans (conservative mostly) therefore they will not win delegate positions but it’s a merit based system by the amount of time/effort/money you have committed to getting Republicans elected in the past. But Trump will get his delagates voted his way the first ballot based on the votes he received. So if he gets to 1237 he wins the first ballot and the nomination is his by rights.

@Ditto: You’re comedic as usual. Duke–former Republican Congressman La.–has said he is voting for Trump—deal with it.
Your support of flim flam Trump over Conservative Cruz says it all about your cred. Cruz stands for, and has actually fought for, the values the right continually claim have been “sold out” in Wash. So you desert him and go to self proclaimed “deal maker” Trump?–gutless Ditto-WHY

Dr. Carson says Trump has “2 sides” What a relief. Many think chameleon Trump has 3 sides or more.

@Richard Wheeler:

Duke–former Republican Congressman La.–has said he is voting for Trump

I notice that you have failed to cite proof of this claim. As such, there is no reason why we should take you at your word when you have already lied and shared a false claim (ie. propaganda incorrectly claiming Duke was endorsing Trump when he stated quite clearly that he did not). Even if Duke should hold his nose and pull the handle for a friend of Israel, it proves nothing as no candidate has any control over who may vote for them.

I have already said that I would prefer a President Cruz, but It’s not going to happen this round because Cruz only really appeals to some conservatives and his particular brand of evangelicals. He does not have sufficient support from moderates and independents to win the general election. Trump does. Trump even has Democrats switching parties from the gone-too-socialist Democrat front runners so that they can vote for Trump.

Why do you still refuse to condemn Clinton, Reid and Obama for showing their support for and grief over their loss of KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd. Are you too choked up over his death to speak to that?

@Ditto: So you discard Cruz “because he can’t win” to back the say whatever it takes “deal maker”.-you got no backbone.
Cruz can win but it’ll be tough with faux supporters like you Ditto.

I can vote for either Cruz or Trump, which ever of the two wins the nomination. As I couldn’t decide between the two, I decided not to attend the Republican caucus. Clearly that means that I recognize that Cruz can win the nomination and that I do support his nomination. I’m simply stating fact that Cruz does not have any support among moderate and independent voters. Do you deny that? Is your progressive mind so rattled by Trump’s successes that you think Cruz can win a Presidential run against a Democrat by only appealing to his narrow base of supporters?

…“because he can’t win”…

Who are you quoting Richard? If you are attempting to paraphrase what I wrote you should use ‘ not “. Perhaps your eyes are still blinded by tears over the loss of your beloved KKK Democrat leader, Senator Byrd.

David Duke ran for office as a Republican (including POTUS 1992), a Democrat (including POTUS 1988), and third party (including POTUS 1988 after failing as a dem in the primaries). The only office he ever held was as a Louisiana State Representative (R), not a Louisiana Congressman in the U.S. House, which he held for three years. He was denounced by the Republican Party with those denunciations going all the way to then President GHW Bush. So, unlike Byrd (D), he was soundly denounced by party leaders. Insinuating that he is representative of Republicans is the type of partisan politics that is to be expected from members of the Party. If we want to play partisan politics, from here on out we can refer to Duke as, “Former Democratic Presidential candidate, David Duke.”

The hypocrisy is astounding and it’s why this country will NEVER get its act together. People think it’s some sort of a football game or WWE match.

http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/david-duke-4725.php

@another vet: Thanks for your clarification of Duke’ s political meanderings.
We know he’s a white supremacist that all would do well to disavow.

@Richard Wheeler: Which is why I didn’t come here calling him, “Former Democrat Presidential candidate, David Duke.” It would have been just as nonsensical as calling him, “former Republican Congressman La”. He is a racist idiot. Period. And I’m still trying to figure out how “Dr. Duke” got his doctorate in history given he went to Iran and denied the Holocaust happened.

@Richard Wheeler:

I didn’t get a million dollar start up from my father.

And i’ll bet you didn’t turn it into a billion dollars either.

@Richard Wheeler: ,

“Former Democratic Presidential candidate, David Duke.”

Ah, you’ve finally found a true Dim that you can support. Finally.

@Redteam: @Redteam: I think I got 50 bucks for my confirmation – turned it into about $800,000–so who did better?
You disappeared after you lied about Jim Webb–how come?

@another vet:

“Dr. Duke” got his doctorate in history

It was honorary, not earned. presented by some foreigners. meant nothing. but if you want an Honorary degree, I’ll have one made up and sent to you. I find them regularly in Cracker Jack boxes. I could probably paste it here so you can print it out and save postage.

@Redteam:

That would be awesome. I can then present myself as the ultimate “expert” in all matters just like some of the left wing trolls who frequent this site do. If you can please make the doctorate all encompassing, I’d appreciate it. Make sure to include the toy. As for Duke, he is the lowest form of scum.

@Richard Wheeler:

You disappeared after you lied about Jim Webb–how come?

Acutually I posted a link to it, at the time. Sorry but if you haven’t figured out links yet, there’s not much chance.

@another vet: Ok, I’ll get to work on it. It’ll be issued in the name “Another Vet” if that’s your actual stage name. The only real drawback is that ‘script’ is not allowed on this blog. Maybe I’ll have to create a link to one off site. Anyhow, I’ll get he bugs worked out and you’ll be a PHD before you know it.

@Redteam: I listened to the link–did you?-over a week old–nowhere did Webb say he was voting for Trump—so you either didn’t actually listen to it or you lied. Which is it?
A.V Have you listened to the Morning Joe 3/4 interview?

@Richard Wheeler:

turned it into about $800,000–so who did better?

Let’s see if we can help Richie out here.

One man (A) earns 10 billion dollars
another man (B) earns 800, 000 dollars and he wants to know which one did better.

I’m gonna go with A. I’d rather have 10 billion than just less than one million.

@Redteam: I want one too! All I ever find in the crackerjack boxes are those crummy waterbased tatoos 🙁 They used to give out little plastic whistles I miss those

@Richard Wheeler:

I listened to the link–did you?

So now you’re admitting I did not disappear, that I did, in fact, post a link to Webb endorsing Trump.
You’re spinning your wheels RW, I realize I’m talking to someone that doesn’t think 10 billion is better than 800k, but Geez…….

@kitt: Ok, Kitt, will present you with one also. I’ll work on them tomorrow.

@Redteam: You posted a link that made very clear Webb has not endorsed Trump–but we already knew that. Thank you Question is –why don’t you?
Turning one million into I billion is a smaller percentage gain than turning $50 into $800,000–even a mathematically challenged person knows that RT.

To All After Trump loses to Kasich in Ohio on Tues. do you think Conservatives will get behind Cruz?-where they belong

@Richard Wheeler:

You posted a link that made very clear Webb has not endorsed Trump

It really bothers you that your favorite pol endorsed Trump. You may stop beating the dead horse.
So you would rather have $800 K than 10 billion. Seems in line with most of your judgment. I’d take the 10B as the bigger prize.

To All After Trump loses to Kasich in Ohio on Tues.

Well I think your buddy Soros put the old quietus on that scenario. With Kasich, Cruz and Rubio supporting Soro’s in that deal, it basically took them out of the contest. Trump will now win both Fl and Oh. Who you gonna call? Ghost Buster. Fat lady is warming up. The serenade will be Tues night.