Trump’s support is still being underestimated

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The GOP firewall for stopping Donald Trump pretty much expires next Wednesday. If Trump takes Ohio and Florida it will be nearly impossible to stop him. A new poll shows Rubio narrowing Trump’s lead to eight points, 38 to 30. Ted Cruz is in third place at 17 points.

Polls also suggest that both Cruz and Rubio could best Hillary Clinton, but Trump would have an uphill battle.

Despite all that, I think Trump support is being considerably understated and underestimated. There are an awful lot of screwy things going on.

In Massachusetts 20,000 voters changed parties from democrat to Republican :

Nearly 20,000 Bay State Democrats have fled the party this winter, with thousands doing so to join the Republican ranks, according to the state’s top elections official.

Secretary of State William Galvin said more than 16,300 Democrats have shed their party affiliation and become independent voters since Jan. 1, while nearly 3,500 more shifted to the MassGOP ahead of tomorrow’s “Super Tuesday” presidential primary.

Galvin called both “significant” changes that dwarf similar shifts ahead of other primary votes, including in 2000, when some Democrats flocked from the party in order to cast a vote for Sen. John McCain in the GOP primary.

The primary reason? Galvin said his “guess” is simple: “The Trump phenomenon,” a reference to GOP frontrunner Donald Trump, who polls show enjoying a massive lead over rivals Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and others among Massachusetts Republican voters.

In Mahoning County, Ohio, 1,000 voters switched affiliation:

About 1,000 Democrats in Mahoning County so far have switched their party affiliation to Republican with election officials saying several did it to vote for Donald Trump, the GOP presidential front-runner.

“We are seeing something this election cycle I’ve never seen before to this degree,” said board Chairman Mark Munroe, who’s also the county Republican chairman. “Every day I take phone calls or get voice messages from people saying they’ve been Democrats all their life and they’ve had it. They want to vote for Donald Trump. I’m surprised at the volume of inquiries we’re getting. It’s remarkable.”

A number of Democrats taking a Republican ballot when voting early at the board “say they want to vote for Trump,” said Joyce Kale-Pesta, Mahoning County Board of Elections director.

Trump has more Muslim support than the other GOP candidates- combined.

Then there was this rally- Muslims and Sikhs for Trump:

A group of Sikhs and Muslims mostly from South Asian countries have joined the Donald Trump bandwagon in the US state of Maryland, asserting that the Republican presidential frontrunner is “not against” their communities.

Under the banner of “Sikh Americans for Trump” and “Muslim Americans for Trump” scores of Sikhs and Muslims held their first meeting in a suburb of Washington DC in Maryland, wherein a representative from the Trump campaign addressed them.

Organisers of the event – from both the Sikh and Muslim communities – argued that the view of Trump about minority community has been “twisted” and “taken out of context” by the mainstream media and claimed that the 69-year-old billionaire real estate magnet would create more jobs in the country which would benefit he minorities.

“He (Trump) is not at all against the Sikhs or the Muslim community. What he says is given spin. The mainstream media gives a spin. Because they are scared of him. He is not the status quo. He is not taking anybody’s money,” said Jasdip Singh, who helped organised the “Sikh Americans for Trump” in Maryland.

A prominent member of the Sikh community, Singh is Chairman of the Maryland Governor’s Commission on South Asian Affairs and Chairman of the Board of Sikh Associations of Baltimore.

“When he talks about Muslims, he does not talk about all Muslims or American Muslims. He spoke in the context of the refugee crisis that was happening in Syria. We (Sikhs) agree with him. Muslim (Americans) agree with him that we should not bring people into this country before we can vet them. And this was a temporary measures proposed by him,” Singh said.

 And there’s the democrats’ worst nightmare:

https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson/status/705886599196778497

Trump has struck a nerve with a lot of people and they are stubbornly resistant to the juvenile antics, the high school locker room patois, and the lack of policy specifics. My sense of this is that Trump’s support is wider and deeper than is being acknowledged.

Democrats are fretting about Trump’s appeal.

But a growing number of rank-and-file Democrats have a warning for their party leaders.

“Be careful what you ask for,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), another Clinton supporter and prominent member of the Congressional Black Caucus.

“A few months ago, nobody gave Donald Trump a chance of being a serious contender. Now he’s the leader. So it’s incumbent upon Democrats to do what, historically, we’ve been good at, and that’s communicating with our voters, letting them know what we stand for, and putting those apparatuses in place to move our voters to the polls.”

I think they’re right to fret.

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Mr. Trump has done well in open primaries, where Independents and others can cross over to vote.
Sen. Cruz has done well in closed primaries.
When Dems can change party to vote in a closed primary, Mr. Trump does better.

What Mitt Romney did ended up hurting him worse than it did Mr. Trump.

But, unless Mr. Trump has sown up the nomination by the 1st ballot, all the delegates are free to vote for someone else on every ballot afterwards.

Mr. Trump has 3 main messages:
1. Political Correctness is a poison that is destroying our ability to even communicate, much less debate.
2. Immigration must be better handled.
Illegal immigration should cease while legal immigration must be better vetted/better tracked, too.
3. Trade must be better handled.
The TTP is a multilateral arrangement which puts other countries in the cat-bird seat over the USA. Mr. Trump favors bilateral trade agreements where we can attain equal footing. As a side note to trade, some foreign countries devalue their currency so as to attain advantage over the USA.

Dems love PC.
Reps hate it.

Dems and Reps (GOPe) love open borders, Republican voters want border control.

Dems and GOPe love the TTP. But voters and workers who are losing their jobs to it hate it.

There’s Mr. Trump’s broad appeal.

Either that, or the Democrats want to help Trump get the nomination because they think that he will be the easiest for Hillary to beat.
After all, it worked with John McCain. Remember how the press loved him until he was the nominee? Then the short knives came out.

Oh, by the way, Trump is a real estate magnate, not a “real estate magnet.”

DR J
Trump IS seen as being the GOP nominee easiest to beat in the election, if I still lived in MA I would have voted for him. (remember Rush’s Operation Chaos? works both ways)
And 20000 Dems did switch party affiliation, but it does NOT say they became Republicans, does it ?
People who put their money on what they think will happen are not giving the GOP much hope https://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_PRES16_WTA.cfm

Last night a news segment was done about the new voters coming out, for the 1st time, just to support Trump.
Apparently, lots of traditional non-voters are supporting him.
For every Dem who switched party affiliation to vote Trump there are a dozen who were over voting age before but didn’t vote, but who are out to vote this year, for Trump.

As a segment of population the non-voter is the larger than any one party.
In 2012, for example, 40% of eligible voters stayed home.

@Nanny G: “Mr Trump” such respect lol
Well Mr Cruz and Mr. Kasich are not done yet.
Imo Dem crossover to the Donald split pretty evenly between those thinking he’s a better choice than HRC and those thinking he’ll be HRC’s easiest opponent–polls currently suggest that—-hRC+ 7-9%-over Trump in G.E—Kasich BEATS HER..

Tonight Trump will win Mich—-Kasich and Cruz fight for 2nd—Cruz wins Idaho and close in Miss.
Next Tues Kasich takes Ohio—Fla close but goes Trump.
Believe it will be a brokered convention—Kasich emerges as nom Rubio V.P–
They beat HRC in G.E.

Oh, I think the Trump stupid statements factor will catch up with him in the general election. I don’t have a lot of confidence in voters, but I think eventually people will wake up. Not to mention, Trump will energize the Democratic base which will offset his popularity in the profession wrestling fan wing of the electorate.

In other words, I don’t disagree that his support is bigger than some think, but I don’t think that well is all that deep either.

I think if Trump is the nominee, Hillary (gulp) is a shoe-in.

Sad days…

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@Richard Wheeler: Do you really think the voters would be pleased to vote Kasich a distant fourth place candidate?
Both Rubio and Kasich should bow out and let the people choose a candidate of their choice. I would go Trump third party (bite tongue hard) if a brokered convention would choose 3rd or 4th place. Best yet Trump/Cruz third party landslide.

We (Sikhs) agree with him. Muslim (Americans) agree with him that we should not bring people into this country before we can vet them. And this was a temporary measures proposed by him,

What? . . . . Sikhs understand clearly and succinctly what the socialist Democrats are incapable of comprehending?

Damn, what a surprise.

@Richard Wheeler: @Nanny G: “Mr Trump” such respect lol
Well Mr Senator Cruz and Mr. Governor Kasich are not done yet.

Better?

I wouldn’t underestimate Trump in the GE, but if it gets down to one on one soon enough, he won’t be the nominee.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/poll-cruz-rubio-trounce/2016/03/08/id/718001/

@another vet:

I hope you are right, but the Xenophobia seems to be a powerful driver this election.

@James Raider:

I have much respect for those of the Sikh religion. It’s devotees have much in common with Conservatives. (For example; By religious tradition, their men always travel armed with a kirpan for self defense and to help defend innocents from society’s predators.

Meanwhile, Rich’s chosen candidate Kasich shoots his campaign in the ass:

John Kasich to seniors who want to keep their Social Security: “get over it”

oh Kasich told the audience that he planned to cut their Social Security benefits rather than finding alternate funding for the program. He then suggested to the seniors on the audience that they probably didn’t know what the size of their current check was anyway. When one senior objected, Kasich’s response was “Well, you’d get over it. And you’re going to have to get over it.”

The remark from Kasich is the latest in a string of tone deaf statements from various 2016 republican candidates. Donald Trump appears to be using insults as a strategy. But Jeb Bush, whom some viewed as a frontrunner capable of appealing to the mainstream, has offended Americans with his comments on everything from immigration to gun control. And now it appears John Kasich is no more capable of promoting republican policies in a congenial manner than his counterparts. That may have something to do with the republican policies being strictly in favor of extremists and the wealthy, and not all that easy to repackage into something more appealing sounding.

@Tony Plank: #13

but the Xenophobia seems to be a powerful driver this election.

This constantly repeated fabrication flowing like a disease throughout the left and some of the right establishment, is proof of the too pervasive ignorance that exists of human nature, common sense and the current American human condition.

It has been provided energy in the age of Obama just like accusations of racism have been hurled at anyone who ‘disagrees’ with the socialist’s policies.

On the positive side, this lack of understanding for why Trump and Cruz are succeeding will leave opposing strategies floundering, flailing at shadows.

@James Raider:

I completely disagree that this is a fabrication . Xenophobia has been a constant throughout American history. Trump is merely tapping in to this historic tendancy. I can elaborate, but most people know this stuff.

In addition to the historic pattern, I also have had extensive interaction with Trump supporters which confirms my assertion however impossible to document that may be.

No, this is far from fabrication. Fortunately, it is a minority, albeit a substantial minority.

If you wish to show the “fabrication”, please do so, but the words of Trump are conclusively damning, sadly. I would love to hear your attempt to refute that. It would be most entertaining.

@Petercat:

After all, it worked with John McCain. Remember how the press loved him

But you sure can’t say the press loves Trump

@Richard Wheeler: That must have been a really rough pride parade for you last Sat night. Chaps must have been so tight they choked off the blood supply to your brain.

@Ditto:

Meanwhile, Rich’s chosen candidate Kasich shoots his campaign in the ass:

John Kasich to seniors who want to keep their Social Security: “get over it”

Interesting comments Ditto. Recently I had mentioned to RW that Kasich had been an early favorite of mine for the nomination but that recently he had completely lost his mind. This is clearly an example of that. Seniors have already paid for that Social Security, it belongs to them, it does not belong to the government. So for him to say that they can not keep what they bought and paid for is not going to win a lot of votes from anyone.

The Huffington Post tried, at first, to put Donald Trump on the fashion/gossip page instead of in the politics arena.
But they have changed their policy.
They have an aggregate graph of ALL polls that shows the various candidates’ stance as of the latest polling.
It is here:
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary

Note that you can click on each and every poll below the graph.
And, in noting that, be aware that the graph is reflecting REGISTERED REPUBLICANS, not merely adults or even register voters of any party.
So, with that in mind, who has benefited as the field winnowed down?
Easy to say, ”everybody.”
But, also easy to see that Donald Trump benefited most of all.

AND……
That graphic and the polls behind it omit all of the other voters who cross over to support Donald Trump.

Who saw the Trump press conference tonight?
If you did, you saw all those Trump Steaks, Trump Vodkas, Trump Wines, Trump Magazines, Trump Waters.
If not, here’s a photo:
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/56df89e691058436008b513a-2664-1998/gettyimages-514358088.jpg

@Tony Plank:

If you wish to show the “fabrication”, please do so, but the words of Trump are conclusively damning,

Sorry Tony, but I’ve seen no evidence of Xenophobia on the part of Donald Trump. Dictionary.com definition of Xenophobia is “an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers ”
I would challenge you or anyone to give a single example of any ‘unreasonable’ fear of foreigners. To advocate that refugees from countries that are at war be allowed open admission without vetting is insane. Trump only said they should not be allowed in until properly vetted. I certainly don’t allow any suspicious person into my house without knowing who they are and what their intent is.

@Redteam:

I really wish Trump had said what you are saying he did. Along with most Americans, I totally support screening of immigrants prior to allowing entry. But what he actually advocated was a ban on all members of the second largest religion in the world until we can figure things out.

That is hard to reconcile with the idea of a neutral fact based approach to policy development.

Perhaps, but only perhaps, Trump has no personal fear of Muslims…I don’t think either of us can prove the contents of his mind, but at a minimum he is playing to the known biases and fears of large swaths of the voting public.

http://tonyplank.wordpress.com

@Tony Plank:

But what he actually advocated was a ban on all members of the second largest religion in the world until we can figure things out.

I agree completely with that. How could anyone advocate allowing potential terrorists into the country without a proper vetting. I see nothing at all unreasonable about that.
I think I would modify the ban slightly though. I would ban ALL first time visitors to the US until they were properly identified and vetted.
I went to Australia in 2001. I’m an American citizen. I had to go through a visa process. (footnote: Americans are not considered as hostile to Australians.) How could anyone not think that is a good idea.

@Redteam: @Redteam:

I think we agree…not sure.

Screening all immigrants or people applying for Visas is an entirely reasonable thing. I know I am repeating myself, but that is not what he said.

When you put his words in the context of applying to lead the free world, they are at best irresponsible. His words are the linguisic scars of his own bigotry. And his words are certainly calculated to appeal to the fearful and bigoted instincts of some voters.

The lipstick does less for this pig than your average politician.

http://tonyplank.wordpress.com

When Donald Trump was interviewed by CNN’s Don Lemon (back in December!!!) he said, very clearly, there would be exceptions to the TEMPORARY ban on Muslims entering this country.
He specifically mentioned diplomats and international athletes among others he did not list.

For posters to still, three months later, be debating based on partial facts is really sad.
His original statement also came out in December……three days earlier!
So, his entire position has been out there since the week he stated it!

Today’s State by State 03/08/2016

Michigan % of Vote Delegates
Trump 36.5% 25 (Winner)
Cruz 24.9% 17
Kasich 24.3% 17
Rubio 9.3% 0

Idaho % of Vote Delegates
Cruz 45.4% 20 (Winner)
Trump 28.1% 12
Rubio 15.9% 0
Kasich 7.4% 0

Hawaii % of Vote Delegates
Trump 42.4% 11 (Winner)
Cruz 32.7% 7
Rubio 13.1% 0
Kasich 10.6% 0

Mississippi % of Vote Delegates
Trump 47.3% 24 (Winner)
Cruz 36.3% 13
Rubio 8.8% 0
Kasich 5.1% 0

Current Count as of 2:00-am 03/09/2016 (1237 needed to win)
Trump 446
Cruz 347
Rubio 151
Kasich 58
Carson 8

@Nanny G:

For posters to still, three months later, be debating based on partial facts is really sad.

I realize Trump felt the need to later moderate his words. That is the way politics works-Trump just has honed the art better than most. My point is still accurate that the appeal to hate is under estimated in its power. Trump is trying to have it both ways.

The Democrats do it too…this is not strictly a Trump or Republican thing.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@DrJohn:

Both HHS and the FBI have admitted they cannot adequately vet the Syrian immigrants.

I’m no expert on how they should or should not screen immigrants. It strikes me as nearly impossible from any part of the world other than the developed nations.

But taking your statement at written, would not then the unbiased way of stating the concern be to articulate a ban on Syrian immigrants? The point being that singling out Muslims doesn’t make sense no matter how you slice it.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@DrJohn:

I will concede the answers to your rhetorical questions for the sake of this discussion-they are irrelevant to my point.

My argument is rooted in who we are as Americans. Our ideal has long been one of religious liberty as a fundamental right. Remember that “all men are created equal” thing? I find the notion that we exclude people based on a religious affiliation to be anathema to the values we claim to hold dear.

Unlike Trump, and perhaps yourself, I fear a compromise in our values and laws much more than I fear the possibility of a violent extremist making it into our country. We have plenty of home grown violent extremists.

And lest it get lost in the larger point, I would add that singling out a religious group sends a horrible message in a time where we need to be building relations with countries and organizations that are predominantly Muslim.

Bottom line: creating laws based on religious tests is inherently un-American.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@Tony Plank:

I find the notion that we exclude people based on a religious affiliation to be anathema to the values we claim to hold dear.

As regarding Muslim terrorists being entitled to practice their religion freely even when that religion is dedicated to murdering innocent American citizens seems to be slightly toward the extreme. I’m pretty sure that if the Southern Baptists suddenly changed their religion and declared that it is now their goal to murder all the Philadelphians that they could, that there might be a move to not allow them to practice their new religion freely in Philadelphia.

And lest it get lost in the larger point, I would add that singling out a religious group sends a horrible message

would you also concede that for a religious group to single out a country to practice murdering their citizens would be a horrible message?

I think the concept of freedoms in America is that each person has inalienable rights, but those rights do not extend to limiting other citizens that same right. What I mean is, you can have the freedom to do anything you want to as long as it only impacts you personally. If I have to ‘give’ for you to exercise that right, then it’s not a right. It seems that for the Muslims to have free reign to murder Americans would not fit within the generally accepted notions of freedom of religion.

@Redteam:

As regarding Muslim terrorists being entitled to practice their religion freely even when that religion is dedicated to murdering innocent American citizens seems to be slightly toward the extreme.

Well, I find your over-generalization of the nature of Muslims a bit extreme. Referring to Muslims as a uniform monolith is no more constructive than to refer to Christians or Buddhists in the same way. The Muslims I have known are not dedicated to murdering innocent Americans anything.

But then, this is an old tired dialog. Yes, the Quran has some dark directives to Western ears, but check out the book of Joshua in the Bible. This obvious and oft repeated point is not dispositive, but not irrelevant either. The simple truth is that some very evil people have for generations called on the name of Jesus, Mohammed, or Jodie Foster to justify their actions.

What we should care about in a modern pluralistic society is how individuals choose to live their lives. If they choose to be a full participant in a diverse society, I’m all for having them come here, become citizens and help transform our culture into the future state whatever that might be. If, however, they choose to promulgate their bigotry and flaunt the laws by whatever mayhem they might desire, they deserve the full impact of the long arm of the law.

I completely agree when you said,

What I mean is, you can have the freedom to do anything you want to as long as it only impacts you personally. If I have to ‘give’ for you to exercise that right, then it’s not a right.

I think you were implying that I disagree with this basic axiom of natural rights, which I clearly have not. What I have advocated vociferously is that we not treat people differently just because they have a religion different than our own. The standards of what it take to live in a free pluralistic society are independent of the various conditions and beliefs that end in “-ism”. Everyone deserves the chance to pursue their lives as long as they live within the legal boundaries that might be described simply, yet adequately, as “playing well with others”.

Those that aren’t willing to participate in our great experiment in liberty have no place in our society. And this includes people such as Trump who would exclude people based on personal bias and unwarranted assumptions.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

Lets give the Syrian people the opportunity to stay in the middle east. Not many of them dream to become Americans. Their culture does not melt easily with ours. I am getting a bit peeved at people telling us who we are and what our values are. I can’t remember seeing a childs program teaching the joys of killing people of another religion. Here in Wisconsin they are forcing Ariens to allow them to pray outside of scheduled breaks, perhaps its only a few employees, but hardly a union movement and those positions must be covered on an assembly line. What next special food in the cafeteria, no women on the workfloor? We do not need another special interests minority not assimilating. Those that need the special consideration are those that are being systematically exterminated the middle eastern Christians. an we say GENOCIDE?

@Redteam:
Jihadists in the USA ?? What percent of the murders in the USA are committed by them?

@kitt:

I am getting a bit peeved at people telling us who we are and what our values are.

I sincerely hope that my description of our collective values to include freedom of religion and the mandate to participate fully as a member of a pluralistic society is not something you are peeved about. I thought that stuff was axiomatic in America.

Maybe I’m missing your point.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@John:

What percent of the murders in the USA are committed by them?

How many are acceptable when preventable?

@Tony Plank: To my saying “As regarding Muslim terrorists being entitled ” you said:

The Muslims I have known are not dedicated to murdering innocent Americans anything.

I going to speculate that most Muslims you have known were here in the US and were not Muslim terrorists in Syria trying to come to the US with no identification or vetting.
I’m also going to speculate that most Muslims that Trump has known were also Muslims in this country legally and not Jihadists. I don’t believe his generalization of stopping Muslim immigration until the safety issues can be sorted out would interfere with the travel of Muslims that had been properly vetted.
I do not believe that any person, regardless of religion, in any foreign country that has a stated goal of coming to America to murder Americans should be allowed into this country until it can be established that they are not actually a threat to Americans.

but check out the book of Joshua in the Bible.

There are no teachings in the Holy Bible that requires Christians to be committed to murdering non-Christians.

What we should care about in a modern pluralistic society is how individuals choose to live their lives. If they choose to be a full participant in a diverse society, I’m all for having them come here, become citizens and help transform our culture into the future state whatever that might be. If, however, they choose to promulgate their bigotry and flaunt the laws by whatever mayhem they might desire, they deserve the full impact of the long arm of the law.

But are you saying that these people should be allowed to come here with no restrictions and then decide they don’t want to be a part of the American way of life and that they should proceed to fulfill their quota for Muhammed? I think Trump’s stated intent is that we figure out how to know the difference before we open the flood gates.
Let’s narrow the thinking down a little. Say there is a Nazi group in Europe of 1000 members. They have agreed upon a goal of coming to American and murdering some class of citizens (say American Jews). Your theory seems to be. Yea, they say they want to murder Americans, but we believe in people having religious freedom to do whatever they wish and just because that is their stated goal, we should go ahead and open the doors and if they do come here and actually start killing their targeted group, then we can let law enforcement deal with them.
I would go with the ‘let’s determine their true intent before we open the gate’.

@kitt: You are speaking as a Conservative and Cruz would be your sensible choice.
Kasich wins Ohio, Rubio loses Fl. and drops.
Kasich ,the adult in the room, picks up Rubio supporters and moderate Repubs and INDIES–Go to brokered convention—Trump 35-37—-Cruz 28-32— Kasich 26-29.
Trump “the negotiator” tries for “lying Teds” support–no
Tries for Kasich support–you gotta be kidding

Trump realizes the majority can’t stomach him—-calls in William Shatner
Too late –Kasich/Rubio—-beat HRC
Cruz SCOTUS

@Richard Wheeler:

Kasich ,the adult in the room,

You do know that Kasich supports common core.

as a Conservative and Cruz would be your sensible choice.

Well, maybe if he were an American…….

@Tony Plank: Maybe you are missing my point, if they want to immigrate to America it should be because they want to be Americans, not to change our country to suit them. Whats happening in Europe is suicide of their culture. They built a nice place security for themselves now their leaders light a torch to it. The liberals would have us be all accepting of their laws and values, honor killing, child marriage, the right to rape your wife. Let them stay in the middle east let them have their values and laws. Immigration to this country should only be allowed for the betterment of this country. If the have no added value for America turn them back.

@Redteam:

I don’t believe his generalization of stopping Muslim immigration until the safety issues can be sorted out would interfere with the travel of Muslims that had been properly vetted.

But this isn’t what he said until later when he felt the need to mitigate. If it doesn’t interfere with the travel of Muslims per se, then it isn’t a Muslim ban—which was what he called it. Again, my point is that his words evidence an underlying bigotry and appeal to bigotry.

I do not believe that any person, regardless of religion, in any foreign country that has a stated goal of coming to America to murder Americans should be allowed into this country until it can be established that they are not actually a threat to Americans.

Glad we agree on that. But what we are discussing is why Trump has an underestimated level of support. I’m claiming that it is appeal to traditional xenophobic themes.

There are no teachings in the Holy Bible that requires Christians to be committed to murdering non-Christians.

Honestly, I was wrong to bait you with that statement. My simple point is that your view of the book of Joshua, which is a part of all Christian Bibles, depends on how you interpret the applicability of the Old Testament to the New Testament church. It is easy to over generalize and people everywhere do it. I’ve had the OT thrown at me by atheists time after time. Over generalization is a bad thing and one must be vigilant to not engage in the error. I prefer to let Muslims figure this one out rather than assume I have figured it out for them.

But are you saying that these people should be allowed to come here with no restrictions and then decide they don’t want to be a part of the American way of life and that they should proceed to fulfill their quota for Muhammed?

Absolutely not. Never even sniffed at that as a possibility. In fact, your quote right above this demonstrates that. If you come to the US, you agree to abide by our laws. Our laws do not include the Quran, Sharia, Talmud or Bible.

I would go with the ‘let’s determine their true intent before we open the gate’.

Well, I know the progress using FMRI scans has made incredible progress, but I don’t think it is quite there yet. I think this “intent determination” is a deceptive rational with little content beyond wishful thinking. With current technology, we cannot discern the true intent of most people, unless they volunteer the information, so this is just another way of saying we can implement whatever arbitrary or bigoted rule we want.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@kitt:

Yes, I did miss your point. I agree with you here in all but tone. I hope it is more of a two way street and that the immigrant would benefit as much or more than America does. This has been the historic pattern.

While I would expect immigrants to continue to influence what it means to be American as they always have, I agree that they should come to become an American or not come at all.

But, this is a far cry from excluding people based on a religious test.

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@Tony Plank: Seems there is no test, no qualifications.
Immigration should be a States issue if SD(an example) needs engineers or doctors or mechanics it should choose from a pool of applicant immigrants and then incorporate them into our society, the feds are failures.
We are so off topic 🙁

@kitt:

We are so off topic

Hahaha. Well, it is connected in my mind. 😉

https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/

@Redteam: Cruz is as American as he needs to be he never had to be naturalized because his mom never gave up her citizenship to Canada.
He had the entire constitution memorized at 13 years old what a patriot nerdo. His resume for President is pretty darn good. His record is highly conservative.
The Rubio/Kaiche fantasy of Richards wont cut it, if Brokered best be at least one of the top two.

@kitt:

He had the entire constitution memorized at 13 years old

I’m not sure having a good memory proves you are patriotic or Republican. I had Twas the Night Before Christmas” memorized when I was 6 years old. My son then did it at 5 in kindergarten.
Why, if he is such a Constitution believer, does he not honor the requirement of the Constitution to be a natural born citizen.
It still remains to be proven that he is actually an American citizen. I’m sure you know the difficulties he has to prove this, that’s likely why he’s hoping it will just go away. I’m relatively sure you will hear a lot more about the subject if he becomes the nominee.

Do I think Cruz would make a good president? Likely except that he would know he was illlegally in the office and would have to concentrate a lot of time and effort to not let it be litigated. Just as Obama does. Everyone in the world knows that Obama is illegally using someone’s else’s SS number, but nothing will be done about it.
I’m just not willing to say, hey Obama was illegal and got elected, they owe us one. Don’t buy that.

@Redteam: I don’t buy the they owe us one line. I really think all children born on foreign soil with a Citizen Parent are automatically citizens. He certainly has no loyalty to Canada or Cuba, no sealed records no identity theft, I can’t tell you if he was a c-section or breech baby.
IMO he will make a wonderful President.

@kitt:

I really think all children born on foreign soil with a Citizen Parent are automatically citizens.

I do too, provided of course that the birth is properly filed in the US. But being born a citizen is not being born a “natural born citizen”. I would accept that if both parents were US citizens and the birth record was properly filed so that there is/was no question that it was ‘natural born’.

Why does he not have an allegiance to Canada? He was a citizen of Canada from the day he was born until early last year. His father, being a Cuban citizen automatically bestowed Cuban citizenship on him (same as his mother bestowed American on him) Split allegiance means he is a citizen ‘by law’ and not ‘natural born’. See how simple it is?

Oh, and: “I can’t tell you if he was a c-section or breech baby.” both of which might be natural, but I understand he was ‘hatched’. (just kidding)

@Redteam:The framers may disagree with you, The Naturalization Act of 1790, which is actually the only U.S. statute ever to use the term “natural born citizen,” clearly qualifies Ted Cruz as a natural born citizen. 8 USC § 1401, the relevant current statute, doesn’t use the term, but in no way contradicts the 1790 Act.
But what did the writers of that old paper so disrespected these days know.
Media is digging more and more dirt on Donny and his business practices. They’ve only just begun.