Our President, a supposed Christian visited a mosque in Baltimore a few days ago for the first time in his Presidency. In the press conference at the mosque, Obama said that Muslim Americans keep us safe and that Islam has always been a part of America. There has not been a time in my memory that Obama has described the Founding Fathers of our country in much the same way. Our Founders were basically Christian, and used Christian principles in the drafting of the documents that are the foundation of our country.
The citizenry of this country should be embarrasses by this man and his constant affiliation with Islam. With the murders, bombings, the support of a global Islamic caliphate that calls for attacks on the citizens in this country in order to being instability and destruction to the American culture and way of life, our President persists in claiming that Islam is the victims of Islamophobia. It is Obama who has constantly degraded our counter-terrorist operations.
He talks of Islam children being bullied, of mosques being vandalized and claims that Islam is part of the American family. Is this possible when over half of all Muslims in the US agree that jihad is acceptable and that we should be governed by Sharia? And even when talking at the mosque, women were segregated, far away in the balcony listening but not being able to see the President see, Women in our own country are being treated as second class.
The FBI has reported many times that attacks of Muslims in this country is unfounded, there is not a hysterical reaction to the atrocities upon our people by “Islam terrorists”, a term Obama can even bring himself to say.
Obama then went to another straw man, saying “ we have to understand that an attack on one faith is an attack on all faiths”. I don’t remember Christians beheading people, shooting up clubs and stadiums ornplaces of business. I don’t remember having specific places being set aside at universities and airports for Christian worship. I don’t remember Christians demanding laws to be changed to fit the principles they believe in, nor working to restrict the freedom of religion as Islam has demanded. Criticizing those who demand that we live our lives on the terms they demand is not Islamophobia, it is the reality of pushing back on those who would demand we submit to the ideologies that they favor.
But of course, there are “terrorists” in the Christian religion. Those, like the Little Sisters of the Poor who refuse to buy into the Obamacare contraception mandate. This administration feels the need to suppress this free practice of their beliefs with government coercion
Obama made quite a point that our Founding Fathers Thomas Jefferson and John Adams had copies of the Quran. Not mentioned that the fact that our Founding fathers had Qurans because they wanted to understand the twisted thinking of the Barbary Pirates who were seriously damaging our countries commerce off the coast of Africa. They felt if they could understand the enemy it would be easier to defeat them. It is disconcerting that since that time, not much of the Islamic ideology has changed.
Another part of Obamas submission to Islam on the part of Obama was his proclamations about Muslims that he said helped build our nation. I wonder it that would include those who changed the skyline of New York on 9/11, or the long lines at the airports because of potential bombings and the blood and treasure of our Armed Forces in the counter terrorism wars required to keep it at bay. These are some of the contributions that Islam has made to our way of life. Does this include all Muslims? No? But neither does it signify that we should let our guard down, or not verify those that arrive here.
And what of the mosque that Obama visited? Did Obama give legitimacy to a mosque that the FBI had under surveillance just a few years ago. It was shown to be a foundation of the Islamic Terrorism movement when one of the members was arrested for planning to blow up a federal building. The member Muhammed Hussain was arrested in 2010 for plotting to blow up an Army recruiting center not far from the mosque.
This is the mosque that Obama chose to proclaim his affinity for Islam.
It is telling that he may have known this before he went, and decided that it was the mosque that he wanted to make his stand.
It is not “Islamophobia” it is the unfortunate position that America finds itself in. Forced to follow a President that we can’t trust.
Retired military, 20 years of service, retired last April from a warehouse position at NEOPOST. I live is So, California with my wife, two dogs, and one anti social cat. I am a veteran, entrepreneur, writer, and write on the subjects of race, terrorism, the economy, and climate change.
John Veliseks’ new book “One Patriots Opinion- for the Forgotten Men and Women of America” is now available on Kindle. 330 pages that any patriotic conservative would consider a must read and enjoy.
That wasn’t a mosque visit, it was PR.
*This mosque does NOT allow any females in the main area where Obama spoke to males AND females.
*This mosque has such a non-diverse, non-assimilated ”congregation,” that Obama’s PR men had to bus in other, more diverse, assimilated muslims to even out the mix and be highlighted.
*This mosque forces all females to absolutely cover every strand of hair while Obama’s visit highlighted muslim females who merely wore scarves over most of their hair.
Wow. Part of me wants to just blow this post off entirely. Dude, you need to edit a little more closely.
Now, to the extent that Obama may have suggested that Islam was fully integrated in our early republic, he would clearly be incorrect. I would have to review his words in order to assess whether that was his meaning or not.
But as much as most of your xenophobic diatribe disgusted me, it was this statement that troubled me the most:
I hear this repeated often and loudly, but it doesn’t make it true. I think it is a profound insult to our founders to assert this repeatedly: they knew exactly what they were doing.
It is very true that our founders were well aware of Islam just as they were the other great religions and philosophies of the word. They were also aware that the United States was a predominantly Christian nation and their writings indicated that they expected it to remain so.
But in the wake of the Glorious Revolution and being mindful of myriad other religious conflicts, they were also sorely sick of religious intolerance. In an age dominated by deep deference to God and the rights of monarchs to rule by his will, the Constitution omitted any reference to God or Christianity whatsoever.
If you think this was an accident, you are simply contemptuous of their talent and purpose.
I do not endorse Obama’s actions regarding Islam, but there is an important role for him and his successor to play in mending ties with the second largest religion in the word. Our Muslim Americans, who are as fully American as our Christian and Deist founders, deserve fair treatment as full participants in our American melting pot.
I don’t suggest that you need to accept Islam as “valid” or “correct”, but that you merely tolerate differing views as is appropriate in a free country. I suggest you respect the people and what they have and will contribute to our country. Honestly, based on the tone of your inarticulate rant, I imagine there is little hope for you personally.
My deepest hope and prayer is that you are representative of very few Americans.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
yeah nanny G, but feminists love islam, the burka’s, the rapes (cause that gives them more $$$ to fight what they helped create) and they especially love the people who will replace them as they had few children and who would…
most women dont even have an idea what the leaders have said, pushed, created, and so on…
but its sure interesting to watch if your old, have no dog in the fight, and realize you wont be alive for the curtain call..
Tony Plank doesnt know crap… sadly..
the founders stuff was based on the pilgrims stuff… while many were deists, they were deists of christian ideas and ideals, not others… in fact, the separation of church and state does not actually exist the way its portrayed, even if you read the letter by jefferson… and most dont even realize that there is the jefferson bible… a curious thing for a diest to make
The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the later years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus.
however, the problem is that not all things are compatible… some things are mutually exclusive, and communism and freedom are mutually exclusive… islam when followed is mutually exclusive to all other faiths..
so you can be as tolerant as you like… it isnt going to work when the people who your being tolerant of have no reason to reciprocate… and that their behaviors and actions are actually the same practices of war by many means that has lasted over 1000 years…
in fact, this makes less sense the more you know islam, and only a person who has no idea about the tenets, pratices and such and reads bs about it, woud think otherwise.
heck… here is a great non islamic example:
Ever go to a rally and see a black person with a che guevara shirt? Wny would he wear such a thing? not just that che was a murdering despot, but that he hated blacks and thought really nasty things bout them..
“The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese.”
“The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations.”
there are tons more about jews and such…
now.. if your a faitful believer in mohamed and islam and the tenets of the religion, then what are you going to do about the demands of the prophet that require you to act to be part of your religion?
what do you do when a group of islamic religious believers decide to throw some gay men off a roof? do you say its multicultural and thats ok? or do you invite them to live in the gay enclabes and let nature take its course? do you arrest them for following the religion multiculturaly?
here is the problem that thsi person in ignorance doesnt understand, and even the news folk dont understand. christianity has several covenants, and the old parts of the bible are not about the current covenant, its about prior lessons not to be lost… there is also the reformation of the religion
islam has never had that, and so has never abandoned those bad parts of the religion and to be true, the more religious follwo that…
here is an idiotic explanation that probably has plank believing stupid:
In Christianity and Islam, as in all religions, how followers choose to practice their beliefs is based on their interpretation and acceptance of Holy Scripture. Many passages in all forms of religious texts are outdated and are considered criminal if carried out in today’s time, but are still discussed as part of the faith.
no. in fact, how followers choose to follow their beliefs tends to NOT be their interpretation EXCEPT in PROTESTANT faiths…
so you cant apply the changes to the faith by luthor and later people to all religions… in fact, you cant equate them at all, because the point of having a pope negates the above as the pope tells you how things should be (which is why luthor ended nailing stuff on doors)…
in other religions, the head of the religious order tells others what is allowed and what isnt allowed… much as the supreme court adjudicates law in terms of the ocnstitution.
islam has no such point to it… ie. there is no personal form of it that you can worship and not collide with the tenets that demand fealty… so what applies to protestant christianity does not apply to islam, catholics, etc.
but if you believe it, then your going to do something stupid in response to it… the way that a man convinced by others that he can fly may end up going splat when he tries to off a high building.
Most of these assertions are written by non believers!!! ie people who dont undertand the faiths even by trying and dont want to.. they cherry pick…
in fact, abc news tried to equate the bad parts of islamic texts with things like leviticus, and lilke Psalm 137…
quoting ABC news:
Another brutal passage about non-believers from the Bible, Psalm 137, states, “Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”
but its out of context completely with the idea that a religious person would know and ignore or complain and not be heard, and a non religious person would say see see see.
but the passage actually says:
Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
and what they leave out is this is said at jewish weddings, and as a whole is about slaves not liking their owners and would like to hurt them… it does not say go out and kill other unbeleivers. and then there is the reformation histories
In the Roman Catholic Church since Vatican II, the last three verses of the psalm were removed from liturgiques books because of their perceived cruelty being incompatible with the Gospel message
so after telling us that peopel worship the religion their own way and all religions are that way, then then use an example to make it relative with the nasty lines of islam, and then forget to tell you that the central force in christian faith has said not to use those last lines any more as they no longer reflect modern gospel teaching.. ie. the followers of christ.. which is the last convenant, and the time of the psalm was about the covenant of law which was broken
so much for actually understanding what the hell is going on..
then you got people like plank that come along, in ignorance and try to teach people who know more about things and then pretends to be smarter… but again, only smarter to those taht know less. or want to believe what is not true..
so where is the pope of islam that declares that these thingsd are bad? right now, all the different popes of the various denominations are calling for jihad and to go against christians and jews, not agianst the people who enslaved them and murdered them.. and NOT more than 2000 years ago…
ABC news then quotes a oddity:
“Imagine how many monks and nuns around the world chant the Psalms every day,” he said. “In the Psalms, there are some really awful versus about smashing babies heads against rocks, but they chant them and it doesn’t make them violent.”
funny… but wouldnt a religious teacher know that this is only said on the 4th sunday of lent?
but to someone like plank, he would accept it as whole cloth and not know the tenets and times and all that. why should he? he doesnt want to understand it, he wants to cherry pick things to reflect the ideas he is pushing onto others to make more palatable.
ask what Taqiyya is? what is hijrah? what is jizzya?
and how do they relate to his point?
well jizzya is what he would have to pay islamics if they are successful, and its what they think of money given to them by the people they attack… including the US trying to pay islmics not to bomb us
hijrah is the practice of moving young muslim men into a country or area you wnat to take over and letting them terrorize the people, build up sharia, work the courts, kill unbeleivers and all to pave the way for families and leaders to come in… its been practiced since the time of the roman empire… but why would plank know this?
then there is Taqiyya .. this is the order of the religious leader mohamed that says that lying is not a sin or bad if you lie in favor of islam to trick unbeleivers into being stupid.
should i point out that my wife is from indonesia? and that i have known islam for a long while and its tenets, beliefs and so on? and that i have read the texts and know how this all goes together with the right terminology
lets see what he says about me if he reads this..
despite being so large i forgot to add that the USA tolerates satanists, worshipers of ja from jamaica ( Rastafarianism ), christians, buddhists, hindum, santoria, voodoo, kabala practicioners, eris worshipers, pagans, zorastrians, even tiny groups with made up religions…. literally hundreds of various groups and things…
so why the issue with this one religion?
why dont we care about satanists?
the Church of Euthanasia?
why dont we put Raëlism believers who thik an alien ship will come and save them in a mental ward? (a bunch committed suicide together too) did you know their religious symbol is a swastika inside other structures?
Iglesia Maradoniana – who pray to football..
we even have Aum Shinrikyo believers here (When in japan they tried to acquire weapons of mass destruction and use them)…
and falun gong…
but he thinks we are intolerant of religions…
maybe cause they just killed a 15 year old boy for hearing wetern music? maybe cause they throw gays off of roofs. maybe cause they cut body parts off as a way to sentence criminals? maybe cause they attack these other practicioners even if they dont know them?
wake up dippy…
@Artfldgr:
Oh Artfldgr, you are so knowledgeable and intimidating and I am so stupid. I am just too scared to respond.
Well, maybe in your universe anyway.
First, I don’t doubt for a second that you know more about Islam than I do. I do not claim to be an expert, but, you are making a serious logical flaw assuming I know nothing. Now, that isn’t entirely unreasonable given the rampant lack of understanding of most Americans, but you are assuming and have no clue what I do and do not know about Islam.
I am glad you know about the Jefferson Bible. I found it an interesting work for sure because at one time, I was extremely interested in Jefferson and it revealed much about his thinking on religion and philosophy. I’m tempted to get detailed here and refute your implication that Jefferson was a Christian, but I’d bore everyone to death—of this I’m sure. So I’ll just keep it to one quote from a letter Jefferson wrote regarding this work to John Adams:
In other words, while Jefferson greatly admired Jesus, he didn’t believe in anything resembling modern Christianity and rejected almost the entire Bible. But hey, I don’t know crap…
I understand the challenges that religion faces integrating into a modern, free and pluralistic society. It is for Muslims to choose their own path in that regard. My assertion is that we should welcome them on the basis of the equality of all people. I believe we should all be equal before the law regardless of their skin color, political affiliation, poor senses of humor, or unrepentant sinfulness—as long as they abide by our laws.
You spilt a great deal of ink discussing what I probably believe. I could respond point by point, but it really isn’t necessary: your pointless speculation was uniformly incorrect. I respectfully propose that you “debate” by refuting my actual assertions rather than some construct which you construct for your own purposes.
Now, the gravamen what I actually said above was this:
I would love to hear your response to this actual content, and not to what you want to think I would have said had I been smart enough to say that which you wish I had said.
It is a sad reality of modern America that people of opposing views are inclined more toward ad hominem attack than substantive debate. Artfldgr, you stand before us all as exhibit one of this insidious general trend. The most revealing thing you posted was:
Well, that hurts. I am ignorant. And pretending to be smart. Guess I can not handle an insightful sage such as yourself.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
Tony, Art:
There is no Universal Islam. In fact, the Shia and Sunni have a 1300 year feud concerning the Third Caliph.
Ths Saudi Wahabists have sole custody of the earliest texts, and no critical analysis is allowed.
Individual Imams are not under any authority.
One cannot make any statement about Islam which holds true in every instance.
So you are arguing about two different things!
It is like the Jews before David: everyone did his own thing.
@Tony Plank: The founders were aware, apparently, of the existence of other religions. However, nowhere in the Constitution did they include wording that if your religious beliefs include actions that are against the Constitution (DENYING life, liberty and pursuit of happiness by way of separation, beheading, stoning, raping, hostage taking).
We may not have been founded strictly along Christian lines, but the Judeo-Christian principles of human behavior are what the Constitution and our laws is based upon. There may be parallels with other religions (any human being should respect those principles) but no allowance was made to accept activities that are considered barbaric by civilized people.
Obama could have chosen any one of thousands of mosques to speak; why did he chose one with the taint of terrorism on it? Or, do they all have it?
@Mathman:
I actually have made no assertion about what Islam is or is not. That was Art.
I totally agree that there is no single set of Islamic belief any more than there is a single set of Christian belief. That is why we should start from a premise of respecting our fellow man. If an individual’s behavior is inconsistent with our laws, then that is an entirely different matter.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
@Bill:
Well, I agree with the way you phrased it there: Christian values were an essential input into the mindset of our founders. But these were, for the most part, men capable of understanding that the set of philosophies in the world was much larger than their own direct experience.
I have no clue about Obama’s choice of Mosque. I’m not an Obama supporter…not even close. My hunch is that whatever the Mosque’s history, it probably was a situation where he felt like going there would convey the message more effectively?
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
I have yet to see an English professor on these political pages or any political pages on the internet; yet, the wannabes lurk in the shadows, ready to pounce on the writer who makes a few errors. Invariably, the critic sets himself up to be ridiculed through a multiplicity of errors.
Truthfully, all the political writers on the political blogs need some serious editing, especially the pros, but most readers look for the intent and purpose of the author and realize we are all living in glass houses when we write on these blogs.
To my cyber friends, my book is tracking Mito Chondrial DNA through the maternal line of a specific genotype over the previous 50,000 years. It starts during the second mass migration out of North Africa during one of the greatest recent glacials and proceeds to the present. It follows the migration routes and the DNA mutations over the eons and includes cultural and technological advancements, from likely but previously undiscussed methods used to kill mammoths and on to our modern snowmobile. There is a lot of science and history, but it is written so that a nonscientific person can grasp the concepts. You can expect to learn about the reproductive cycles of mammoths, the cave art of Lascaux, and the humorous personality traits of Cortez. I have written 85,000 words and expect to publish in two volumes, totaling 150,000 words. It has a clever surprise at the ending and introduces some radical personalities throughout the book; some are real, some are fictional; hence, the advantage of writing a novel. I call it artistic license.
It’s been a great learning process and a lot of fun.
@Tony Plank: I am a bit unsure of what christian values mean, is that like burning witches? or hanging Quakers?
An eye for an eye that sort of thing?