Trump has exaggerated his supposed opposition to OIF. PolitiFact:
Again, Trump said he was against the war from the very beginning.
“I’m the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq,’ ” Trump said. “Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn’t a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, ‘You’ll destabilize the Middle East.’ ”
Trump often repeats this line, and we’ve rated a similar Trump claim Mostly False, because he didn’t appear to take any public position on the war until after the March 2003 invasion. In this more recent version of the statement, he also said he stated his opposition to the war “loud and clear.” But the public record of his positions is thin.
Trump’s public opposition to OIF only seems to have started in 2004. Before that, would a President Trump have “lied us into war”?
Hat tip Marc Thiessen for these tweets by Andrew Kaczynski:
So there’s no proof Trump spoke against going into Iraq but on-record proof he tacitly supported regime change. https://t.co/HboFCopDb5
— andrew kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) February 14, 2016
FACT: Trump wrote about taking out Iraq WMDs more than a year before Bush was even president https://t.co/yQOUJnBC47 pic.twitter.com/X30M0G7miC
— andrew kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) February 14, 2016
Trump 2000: Iraq has WMDs. Is a threat. Has incentive to attacks us. https://t.co/yQOUJnBC47 pic.twitter.com/YLkaRJTSCN
— andrew kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) February 14, 2016
So would Trump have “lied” us into war even before 9/11? Daily Kos also linking to Andrew Kaczynski’s Buzzfeed post:
The text of the 2000 book Trump wrote is damning, not only did he believe Saddam possessed an active WMD program, he also supported war to topple Saddam.
In the book he refers to Saddam as a terrorist threat to the US as well.
This is like a gift from heaven to either Bernie or Hillary whoever wins. It makes clear Trump has been lying though his teeth and his view on Saddam was no different then Bush’s at the time.
Donald Trump offered a new reason for why, after exhaustive searches, no one has found proof he opposed the Iraq War before it began: People didn’t write everything he said.
The comments are a stark difference from what The Donald said at a Republican debate in September of last year, when said he could provide 25 stories showing his early opposition to the Iraq War.
“Well, I did it in 2003. I said before that — don’t forget, I wasn’t a politician so people didn’t write everything I said,” Trump said to Meet the Press host Chuck Todd push Trump on the lack of evidence. “I was a businessperson, I was as they say, a world-class businessperson. I built a great company, I employed thousands of people so I’m not a politician but if you look at 2003, there are articles. If you look at 2004, there are articles — in fact, I saw somebody commenting on it last night, that Trump really was against the war.”
In September, asked about his Iraq War opposition, Trump said this:
“You can check it out, check out — I’ll give you 25 different stories.”
A detailed search by BuzzFeed News in September (and other news organization in recent days) did not produce evidence at all Trump opposed the war before the March 2003 start.
The week the war started Trump was quoted as saying it was turning into a “mess” but also said the war would positively impact the stock market, causing it “to go up like a rocket.”
So in other words, like a true Democrat who believed Saddam posed a WMD threat and supported Bush’s Iraq decision, Trump behaved like the typical weathervane politician and only thought OIF was a bad idea after the going got tough and the momentum of the mainstream press began trumpeting the narrative “Bush lied, people died”, “No WMD” (as if that was the sole reason), “Bush attacked the wrong country“, and “Mission Accomplished” ridicule.
Cheney says Trump sounds like a liberal Democrat on Iraq. Medea Benjamin certainly gushed over Trump’s left wing talking points on Iraq.
Cheney:
As for Trump’s comments during Saturday’s debate that Bush did not keep the U.S. safe because “the World Trade Center came down during [his] reign,” Cheney argued there was “nothing” that could be done.
“On the notion, for example, that the president failed to act before 9/11 to stop it, we had no actionable intelligence at that point. It simply wasn’t available. There was nothing we could have done and we didn’t have intelligence at that point to suggest other than there’s a general kind of a threat,” Cheney said.
In answer to some liberals who cheerlead Trump on his Dubbya attacks in comment threads elsewhere, and who kept citing the August 6th PDB as evidence of advance warning that was ignored, I posted the following (a commenter mentioned that Bush said ‘You’ve covered your ass now’ to his briefer”), knowing exactly who Bush’s briefer was and that he felt differently:
I have the book by that CIA briefer (Mike Morell). He is not a political partisan and he writes that Bush said it in jest; and on pg 41,
I tell this story only to ensure that the history of this period is recorded with accuracy, as word of the president’s comment spread and it was mistakenly referred to as a response to the now-famous August 6 briefing that I will address shortly. Most important, the president said it to me as a joke. It was not a serious comment on the piece or on the warnings that CIA was providing about an al Qa’ida attack, which he took seriously.
Pg 42-3:
When I met with the terrorism analysts, I asked them to write the now-famous August 6 PDB titled “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in the U.S.” I asked for this piece because earlier in the year, whenever Tenet and I would brief the president on the al Qa’ida threat, the president would directly ask us, “Is there any indication that this threat is aimed here at the United States?” He was clearly very worried about that possibility. My answer to that question- supported by Tenet- was always the same: “Mr. President, while there is no SPECIFIC information to suggest that these attacks we are hearing about are aimed at the homeland, Bin Ladin would like nothing more than to bring the fight here to our shores.” Given the president’s frequent question, I wanted to have the analysts dig deeper into the subject.
The resulting piece later became the first PDB item ever declassified and released. A casual reading makes clear that we thought the threat from al Qa’ida to the homeland was very real. The threat was not limited to attacks on US interests abroad. But a careful reading also shows that nothing in the item told the president where, when, or how al Qa’ida might strike our country- or even that we thought there was a link between the threat reporting of spring and early summer and a catastrophic attack on the homeland. Later some analysts would claim- some of them to the 9/11 Commission- that they had intended the piece to convey such a linkage. However, the words on the piece of paper we read that morning simply did not do so.
Irritated that Trump repeatedly gave money to the Democrats, including before the 2008 wave? Upset that Trump praised Nancy Pelosi as “terrific” when she picked up the gavel that would pass Obamacare? Annoyed that Trump called for an assault-weapons ban just as the right to keep and bear arms was being restored piece by piece? Angry that, just three years ago, he was slamming Mitt Romney for his harsh stance toward illegal immigration? Don’t be. He “wasn’t a politician” back then, and besides, “that’s just what businessmen do.” If, on the other hand, you are impressed that Trump isn’t on record anywhere supporting the War in Iraq . . . well, that’s because he has always had brilliant instincts and will make a top-notch commander in chief.
Democrats and Code Pink can take Trump back, now.
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
In my opinion Trump believes his own lies. And what does that tell you about the man?
Trump goes to SC, a state with lots of current and former military personnel, and bashes Bush who was highly respected by those of us who served under him. His approval rating in SC amongst Republicans stands at 84%. Not smart. Then he lies about his own past stances and repeats two left wing talking points, both have which have been proven to be lies themselves- Bush was responsible for 9/11 (not AQ?) and there was no WMD found in Iraq (I guess the 5,000 plus found by the troops were mirages) thus earning him praises from Code Pink. He provided lots of fodder for his opponents and seems to be going into a bit a meltdown over it which shows his tempermental shortcomings.
“Start with the truth because that is where you are going end up.”
@another vet –
The 5000 is a low estimate. I’ve seen numbers that are much higher. Also, it does not include the VX stores and a portion of their cyclosarin stockpile Iraq was known to have. Suspicion those weapons were evacuated by the Russians.
Greg over at the other thread “Trump: Bush Lied, People Died” certainly believes there were no CWs in Iraq. He also believes CWs were so degraded they would be ineffective as weapons. Considering Greg’s never been in Iraq (and trying to school us), Trump is keeping good company with him.
@another vet: “Tempermental shortcomings.” Ya think?
The star of “The Apprentice.” reality show is a time bomb. About 35% of Repubs ,desperate for a win, have latched on to this arrogant pied piper—what does that say about these unprincipled lemmings?
@Richard Wheeler: As long as Hilldabeast is in the race it says more about liberals than those who chose to follow Trump!! Hilldabeast voted in favor to go to war with Iraq as she and 70 other Democratic legislators looked at the same Intel and agreed with President Bush!! Before the Bush bashing begins again or the Trump tantrums it’s important to remember Hilldabeast is a document failure11
@Common Sense: Trump is the biggest Bush basher—In South Carolina no less—HRC can’t outdo that hubris–damn
Honestly, I don’t get this whole discussion. Trump is a politician behaving like politicians do. There is no news here.
But hey, who doesn’t enjoy a little WMD chat from time to time? Much more modern than moon landing hoax chat or Roswell little green men chat.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
@Richard Wheeler: My point exactly, to bash Trump and Hilldabeast at the same time is worthy. Hilldabeast has a public record of failure, Trump has proven successful in the business world but no experience. America can do better!!
@Tony Plank: Well said Tony, reality supports your comments. To cry Trump is playing politics or Hilldabeast is a treasonous liar and both a reflection on the sad state of America. America can, should, and must do better than what we are seeing as dare I say Presidential Candidates.
@Common Sense:
It will never get better until We The People grows up and starts holding people accountable without regard to their political party. Everybody gets all up in arms about the malfeasance of the “other” side, but views theirs non-nonsensically blameless.
In order to get better candidates, we must demand better. And get a grip on the fact that Two-party Hall© does not have our best interests at heart.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
Bush and Cheney have both been on the record saying there were no WMD that were useable
Now shall we look back on where he got them
The designs for the shells we sold them, we allowed companies from western countries to build his factories and we helped him target the Iranians with them
He was OUR MAN fighting the Iranians
The 5000 Kurds he killed with gas? They had joined the Iranians in fighting Saddam who again was our guy
To effectively use gas shells you need a lot more than just gas shells
He had disbanded his chen troops years and years ago
Did we find anything made that hadn’t already exceeded its expiration date?
Did we ever find any troops that were trained in chen warfare?
So, the fact that no one was keeping Congressional-type records of everything Trump said equals a ”he lied?”
Fine.
If that’s the level of ”proof” of lying who are each of you going to vote for?
Rubio?
Oh, wait a minute….
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/02/if-rubio-is-telling-the-truth-these-people-are-lying
Rubio incredulously said his “Gang of Eight” amnesty bill was “never meant to become law.” Except that’s not the way he made it sound to me [ Steve Deace] back in 2013, when he called me on the phone to lobby me directly to support his amnesty legislation.
Cruz?
According to Rubio, Cruz lied about his position on marriage, lied about his position on Planned Parenthood, lied about his own record on immigration.”You can’t just make things up and he makes things up. He made things up about Ben Carson.”
Cruz also lied about Trump’s position of late-term abortion, on Trump leaving the campaign before the vote this Sat., about Trump’s stand on de-funding abortion machine, Planned Parenthood.
Cruz also uses telephone ”push polls” to slander his opponents. Oh, Cruz denies it, but the push poll was conducted by Remington Research.
When the Rubio campaign was informed it said they knew exactly what Remington Research was: a consulting firm started by Sen. Ted Cruz’s campaign manager, Jeff Roe.
OOPS
And while we;re talking dirty tricks, what about Cruz’ smarmy Voter Report Cards that he’s mailed out in TWO primaries (so far.)
Cruz also said he absolutely would not have nominated John Roberts, while he penned an article praising the Justice to the highest degree. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/214989/right-stuff-ted-cruz (read it all!)
Jeb!?
Jesse Hardy became disabled from a chopper jump after 14 years of service as a U.S. Navy Seal. In 1976, he bought 160 acres of swampland that nobody else wanted. And he intended to keep it, but the State and Florida’s EPA had different ideas.
Jeb! authorized the State Department of Environmental Protection to begin eminent domain proceedings against this elderly man who just wanted to keep his land.
The state wanted to ”restore” all the land around it so humans could not live on it.
After Hardy turned down the $4.5 million, Gov. Jeb Bush and the Florida Cabinet authorized the state Department of Environmental Protection to begin eminent-domain proceedings.
Hardy settled.
“I’m telling you, I got took,” he said. “They stole my life.”
How does that compare to Trump’s trying AND FAILING to get an old lady’s house via ED?
When her family finally did sell her house they got 1/10th of the money Trump offered her.
But that’s not Jeb!’s only problem with ED
As gov he ordered the destruction of ALL citrus plants in Fla.
ALL of them.
EVEN if on private property.
He refused to reimburse any of those citrus plant owners.
Jeb!’s Agri Dept broke down fences, too, to get to these plants.
Again, no compensation for the damages.
Eminent Domain at its very worst.
Years later three counties are suing the state for all those damages to their residents.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Nelson/kelleigh272.htm
Who’s left?
Kasich and Carson.
So, which do you pick?
@David:
How many times must we post this here to show the deniers are wrong? It is on them to produce factual evidence proving this document to be wrong.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-intelligence-documents-on-chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq.html?_r=0
@another vet:
It is impossible to convince people who have already made up their mind. This is a strong affect in this case because most people who say they weren’t there conflate this with the real issue: that the Bush administration inflated the risk of Iraqi WMDs to sell a war on false pretenses. Our educational system is falling apart and large swaths of our population have trouble parsing independent issues and critically assessing the veracity of sources.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
@Tony Plank:
I agree 100%.
As for the rest of it, I spent two tours over there and do not feel I was sold the war on false pretenses nor did anyone I served with feel that way. We read the intel reports BEFORE deploying. We saw what the animal did to his own people. They told us Saddam himself was a weapon of mass destruction. He was also in violation of the entire agreement that ended the Gulf War. If given the choice, I’d do it all over again even knowing now that a portion of our population and one of our major political parties would backstab us just like they did to those who served in VN.
@another vet:
I wasn’t over there so I don’t pretend to know how military personnel felt about things. But I do remember how it was sold to the American people: it was sold as an existential threat to the US. Iraq was never anything remotely similar to an existential threat.
I have no doubt that Sadam was an evil, evil man. I had no doubt then that he possessed chemical weapons and would use them.
No, my problem was whether it was intelligent to invade in the first place. I was concerned that voters had no appreciation for what would be involved in an occupation-and they didn’t. And was I certain that the invasion would not only fail to achieve its stated long-term goals-it did not, but would exacerbate our long-term problems-it did.
I want to be really clear how much I respect and appreciate your service in my name. When I criticize our actions in the Iraq war, it has nothing to do with our amazing young people who sacrifice so much. But it is because of this that I am horrified that most of my fellow citizens are so cavalier about wanting to use our military for the passion du jour.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
A very reasonable concern. Had we stayed the course instead of pulling out too soon, we wouldn’t have the current fiasco with ISIS. Iraq is a country with lots of potential. It could be an economic powerhouse in the region if it ever got its act together but unfortunately, it wasn’t given the time to do so. It is also strategically located between two problem children those being Iran and Syria. Having a government in Iraq friendly to the U.S. would be strategically beneficial.
It was my honor for 30 years.
Unfortunately, sometimes the military is the only way to deal with those threatening us as in the current situation with ISIS and AQ. And I agree some wars are avoidable the biggest example being WWI. Our entry changed the course of history in Europe for the worse. Being a history buff, I believe that war and not WWII was the single most important event of the last century.
@Tony Plank: Actually people who have a mind are reluctant to convince but can be convinced. It is those with no mind of heir own who can not be convinced!
@another vet: It takes 20 years to train a SGM, a COL and a Chief of Police. It takes as long to guide/mentor government officials so they understand how to lead. Sun Tzu stated 2400 years ago that military efforts alone are one dimensional and can not succeed alone. Petraeus had a plan in place in Iraq that would have guided Iraq and the Iraqi people to a functional government/country. Obama screwed that up and opened the door for ISIS. All the work Vet and I did in Iraq was wiped our in one sweep. It was more important that Obama could say “I ended the war in Iraq” than to have the Iraq effort succeed.
@Randy:
I wish I were with you on this. Perhaps Petraeus should have been left alone, but I think there is a more important question: how much better off would we have been if we had not gone into Iraq in the first place?
Those of us who had been paying attention to the growing partisanship inside the beltway were expressing concern over whether we would be willing to stay for the long haul. Even if for the sake of argument we assumed that it were right to go into Iraq, we were confident the administration or whomever followed would mess things up. I hate that I was right about this, but our remaining hope is that we learn from our mistakes and refuse to allow the military to be used as presidential play-toys.
The abandonment of the Iraqi people was entirely foreseeable.
https://tonyplank.wordpress.com/
@Randy:
The American people demanded an end to that mistake. If you thought we were going to remain there for another 20 years you were wrong
If you want to volunteer your own personal services to straighten out that mess than go right ahead. But the USA is finished with trying to nation build Iraq
Bush “opened the door” for ISIS by destabilizing that whole region. You want to put the Shia in charge? well look what happened. You thought it was all gonna turn out like what Bush told us tht we would be welcomed as liberators? uhhh how did taht work out ?
@john: It would have turned out well if Obama had not put politics ahead of national security. You needed to have been there and seen the changes before you use what little brain cells you have.
@john: Obola told America in one of his state of the union addresses that Iraq is STABLE!! So if it is destabilized now then don’t blame Bush!! Obola also told America that ISIS is a jv team of farmers and teachers, that ISIS is contained and the Al Qaeda is on their heels!! Maybe you should listen more carefully to what this failure of a President says versus your illusions about President Bush!!
@Tony Plank: Saddam was sponsoring terrorism. He was paying Palestinian terrorist families on TV for having a family member commit suicide in Israel. There also was AQ training in Iraq if you read the captured documents.
@john: No, Obama went against his military advisors and made the decision alone. I do not recall any vote by the American people.
another vet
By now of course you must realize that the people of Iraq don’t like the USA any longer Iraq has great potential to be divided into 3 states the Kurds (who then try and get some of Turkey) Sunni Iraq (ISIS) andShia Iraq bff with Iran. THAT is the most likely scenario. Not all 3 joining hands and singing Kumbaya.
They voted in a government that is bff with Iran that was democracy in action. Problem child ? ISIS was funded by our allies in the region Saudis and the Gulf sheiks.
Hell, even Israel opened its Golan border to treat wounded “moderates” (ISIS)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3315347/Watch-heart-pounding-moment-Israeli-commandos-save-Islamic-militants-Syrian-warzone-risking-lives-sworn-enemies.html
we pulled out because the Iraqis demanded we do, OR have our troops lose their SOFA protections
@john: Dummy! That is because Obama didn’t use any leverage that he had. Another PPP by Obama. See what you get with a weak kneed incompetent president!
@john: Our military advisors were holding Iraq together by using the threats of removing a lot of support. Obama removing the troops caused the current issues. How many Iraqis have you ever talked with? How many of the Iraqi government have you ever talked with? You are just like Greg. You form an opinion and make up facts to support your opinion/ You should try searching for facts and then forming an opinion. More people respect your opinions then.
It wasn’t Obama who signed the SOFA that pledged the US to remove combat troops was it ?
How many Iraqis did you talk to when you were not in uniform or heavily armed
Look most Americans think that Iraq was a tragic mistake. And again if you think something positive can be achieved , why by all means with all your experience return and do it
You are just like all those other posters here, you want someone else (Obama) to do something that you will not go back over and do yourself. Out of the millions who went over, how many have returned on their own to fight ISIS? You want to wipe out ISIS head over there. Americans are fed up with that country. If you arren’t send us a post card or email
As far as being over there in Iraq, no. But I have lived 6 months in Afghanistan in 76 and 77 and wasn.’t eating catered meals or drinking bottled water. I have lived another 6 months in SE Asia muslim countries.
And yeah I had passable Pashto, before and after
And when I travelled I was alone
How do you think your personal interactions with English speaking Iraqis was colored by your uniform ?
Leverage ?? There were none or few Iraqi politicians that would have signed a SOFA that allowed us to stay. The Iraqi people did NOT want us to remain. Cant you understand that ? If they did they would have elected people that voted that way
You see any big demonstrations over there asking us to come back? You DO know taht American troops are pretty much confined to their bases because of all that Iraqi love going out to them don’t you?
Randy tell me just how many more dead Americans are you willing to total up for Iraq?
How many more trillions in treasure?
See any light at the end of the tunnel?
Bush left with polls in the teens primarily because of Iraq
That is what Americans thought of him and his war of choice
Cheese and crackers
Trump is telling the GOP base (not those elites who are still trying to pretend Iraq was worth what we paid) what they know is true. It is teh GOP ESTABLISHMENT that is trying to keep those Iraq myths going
@john: I spent 3 years in Iraq. Two of them were working with Iraqi government officials. Obama blew it just as he did Egypt, Libya, Syria and he is working on Israel and Jordan. Obama, Clinton and Kerry are incompetent. That is why we are where we are in the Middle East. The economy that the democrats caused by requiring unqualified applicants to have home loans they could not repay that caused the economic crisis and Bush took the blame.
@Randy: While you were in Iraq–thank you I was a Mortgage Banker/Broker–1997-2009. W pushed home ownership for all–still can picture his speeches—–biggest problem was lender greed—and breakdown of rating agencies–see ” The Big Short”
I would have liked to see Petraeus finish the job in Iraq and Afghan.–a great leader. Would have been a good choice for POTUS.
TRUMP IS A DANGEROUS CLOWN–his negatives are building towards 65% while he holds his red meat 35% of rabid right—no sign of Sarah–no surprise
@john: The issue was there was no SOFA which was the issue. The one Bush signed ran out and the incompetent administration didn’t want to do what the military advisors recommended. He wanted to “end the war” which also started another one. If I remember my geography, Afghanistan and Iraq are in two different places with quite different parts of the world with quite different ethnic people. I worked with the government officials. Everyone of them wanted us to stay except the top few. I still get emails from them. If you are going to discuss Iraq, you should understand that Iraq is not Afghanistan nor any other Muslim country. Otherwise, your opinions are worthless.
@john: That was my last response to you. I made an exception to my rules to not respond to stupid people. If one does not know the facts or situation, then they are ignorant. If they continue to maintain their ignorance, then they are stupid. You qualify for the latter.
I always chuckle a bit when the Goop who held the congress for over a decade try to pin the blame on the minority’s party
Somehow they FORCED the majority party to pass all those bad banking laws
Anyone with half a brain (and most Americans) could see that Iraq was going down the toilet long before 2009 when Omaba was inaugurated
Iraq? When the going gets tough, the tough get going. The smart had already packed up and left. We should have taken our combat troops, not the 3-4000 trainers and 10s of thousands of contractors out loooooong ago
As I said before if you want to help them, go on over and volunteer
But no longer on the tax payers dime
dime
Bankers did very very well selling off those sub primes
But of course this is another place where the GOP was saying of course we can deregulate what could possibly go wrong?
And you think that any post 2011 SOFA would have been different than the one Bush signed ?
Are you daft? Baghdad doesn’t even want ground troops there Baghdad doesn’t even really care what ISIS. Does to the Sunnis Baghdad buys ISIs oil all the time
And the Sunnis? They seem to prefer ISIS to Shua Baghdad
@john: Is this the same john (aka john ryan) who was here a few years back telling Mata about how you were thinking about joining the military and are now saying you were in Afghanistan in ’76 and ’77? If so, the impression we all had is that you were in your late teens or early twenties.
@another vet: I had forgotten about that John. Could there be that many liberals named after a toilet?
@Randy: They could be different. I can’t remember how many johns have posted here. There used be another Greg who posted here who made sense. He was from California and would make it known he was different from the other.
Well
You know I don’t actuall get upset over insults
It’s sort of lame
My guess is that you got into a bit of a hissy fit when I suggested that you yourself do what you want Obama to order others to do
The radical right often does that complaining about oh liberal teachers when they themselves will not take that job
Trump is far out in front of Cruz and yes Cruz does parrot the GOP establishment on Iraq
Your position seems to be like Jeb!
Well you can see what Americans think of that
@another vet:
Another vet and Randy: It’s John Ryan. Funny, but I also used to think he was maybe a college student. This was back when he used to leave drive-by comments, never to return to a thread to defend his earlier comments.
@john: The SoFA issue in a nutshell:
In 2011, President Obama was claiming credit for what Bush indeed signed in Dec 2008.
In 2010, we did not support the Iraqi election results and kept Maliki in power (who was not “installed” by the Bush Administration, btw- The Da’wa Party Conference elected him to the PM position).
Two months before the SoFA was set to expire, Obama finally sent a team to negotiate a new deal (as was always intended and expected since the first signing). Argument put forth by John Ryan and other defenders of the president is:
1. Iraqis wanted us out.
2. Iraqi Parliament would never grant troop immunity
On the first issue, here’s what Leon Panetta (and he’s not alone in this) said in his book, “Worthy Fights” page 392:
Others have echoed the same perception (I’ll link you later in this comment to my blogpost, which maybe you merely skimmed over since you’re still stuck on points I’d think my post had refuted).
On point 2,
Maliki offered to sign an executive order granting troop immunity but the Obama Administration didn’t want it (State Dept lawyers insisted on going through the Iraqi Council of Representatives). This is the same protection our current forces Obama resent into Iraq are currently operating under.
There were other means around the Troop Immunity issue, such as putting the remaining troops on the embassy’s diplomatic rolls, which would automatically give them immunity.
A number of people believe that the Obama White House did not push hard enough for a renegotiation (HIllary Clinton at the time advocated for a sizable troop presence in Iraq and like Panetta, believed in renegotiating a new SoFA). That they were more interested in fulfilling a campaign promise and wanted nothing better than to wash their hands of Iraq.
In 2013, Iraq began showing concerns of a rising Sunni militancy (in the absence of the U.S. flexing its influence over moderating a sectarian Maliki- plus in 2010 not supporting Iraq election results that saw Maliki lose- Sunnis were once again being alienated) and asked the White House for airstrikes and military aid (Oct 2013). Obama refused. In 2014, Iraq asked again (by this time, Obama already dismissed ISIS as a JV team in January) and was once again denied. Then by mid-June, the al Muthanna chemical weapons factory was seized by ISIS; and cities began to fall. Finally, the johnny-come-lately risk-averse, slow-deliberating (re: dithering) president sends some troops back into Iraq in advisory/training roles along with some airstrikes.
Iraq was fragile but stabilized in 2009 (re: Troop Surge which Senator Obama opposed and Sunni Awakening). AQI decimated there. Biden called Iraq possibly the Obama Administration’s “greatest achievement” in 2010.
In case you missed it, John, or need refresher:
The Truth About the Status of Forces Agreement
If you sift through the comments stream, you’ll find some other useful links. Maybe even an earlier comment by you? Would love to see your opinion evolve, John. Or at least trump mine, if you have better information than I’ve provided.