Certain things tend to set off triggers in you. For me it was Don Lemon– when he joined the flag-damning freaking idiot liberal lemmings in their bloodlust considering the removal of the Jefferson memorial:
CNN’s Don Lemon on Tuesday hinted that there will come a day when the United States will have to “rethink” tributes such as the Jefferson Memorial. After a contentious segment with Ben Jones, in which the former Congressman defended the Confederate flag, Legal View host Ashley Banfield brought up the author of the Declaration of Independence.
She reminded, “There is a monument of him in the capital city of the United States. No one ever asked for that to come down.” At first, Lemon asserted that the comparison was not “equal” and that Jefferson “was a part of the entire United States.” He then added, “There may come a day when we may want to rethink Jefferson, I don’t if we should do that. But when we get to that point, I’ll be happy to partake in that particular discussion.”
And so will I.
I’d already warned about this and I got to watch it take place. With each passing day liberals become more and more like ISIS- seeking to purge history of anything they deem politically incorrect according to THEIR version of politically correct history. Let’s go back and look at how slavery came to be. Here are some hard facts.
Thomas Jefferson had nothing but contempt for slavery:
Thomas Jefferson was a consistent opponent of slavery his whole life. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty. These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm.
At the time of the American Revolution, Jefferson was actively involved in legislation that he hoped would result in slavery’s abolition. In 1778, he drafted a Virginia law that prohibited the importation of enslaved Africans. In 1784, he proposed an ordinance that would ban slavery in the Northwest territories. But Jefferson always maintained that the decision to emancipate slaves would have to be part of a democratic process; abolition would be stymied until slaveowners consented to free their human property together in a large-scale act of emancipation. To Jefferson, it was anti-democratic and contrary to the principles of the American Revolution for the federal government to enact abolition or for only a few planters to free their slaves.
But don’t blame Jefferson for slavery. Don’t blame the Founding Fathers for slavery. They didn’t invent slavery, although MSNBC and CNN would have you believe they did.
Blame the Sumerians.
Slavery wasn’t invented in Africa. It’s probably a Mesopotamian concept, practiced in Sumeria for millennia before it was seen in Africa. Slavery has long been a staple of Islam and Muslim countries. Islam is also indelibly intertwined with African slavery.
Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.
By the time of the Ottoman Empire, the majority of slaves were obtained by raiding in Africa. Russian expansion had put an end to the source of “exceptionally beautiful” female and “brave” male slaves from the Caucasians — the women were highly prised in the harem, the men in the military. The great trade networks across north Africa were as much to do with the safe transportation of slaves as other goods. An analysis of prices at various slave markets shows that eunuchs fetched higher prices than other males, encouraging the castration of slaves before export.
In the 1430’s Portugese explorers came sailing down the West coast of Africa looking to trade not for slaves, but for gold (Hence, the Gold Coast). Slavery was well entrenched in Africa by then. The Portuguese discovered they could obtain their desired gold by transporting slaves from one part of Africa to another- from one African slave owner to another. And:
Muslim merchants had an insatiable appetite for slaves, which were used as porters on the trans-Saharan routes (with a high mortality rate), and for sale in the Islamic Empire.
In contrast to the popular notions of TV’s Kunta Kinte and Hollywood, most of the Africans who were enslaved came from the interior of Africa where Europeans dared not venture:
A slave’s journey to a life of servitude often began in the interior of Africa with his or her capture as a prize of war, as tribute given by a weak tribal state to a more powerful one, or by outright kidnapping by local traders. European slave traders rarely ventured beyond Africa’s coastal regions. The African interior was riddled with disease, the natives were often hostile and the land uncharted. The Europeans preferred to stay in the coastal region and have the natives bring the slaves to them.
Dr. Alexander Falconbridge described how it went down (Ibid):
. . . During my stay on the coast of Africa, I was an eye-witness of the following transaction: a black trader invited a Negro, who resided a little way up the country, to come and see him. After the entertainment was over, the trader proposed to his guest, to treat him with a sight of one of the ships lying in the river. The unsuspicious countryman readily consented, and accompanied the trader in a canoe to the side of the ship, which he viewed with pleasure and astonishment. While he was thus employed, some black traders on board, who appeared to be in the secret, leaped into the canoe, seized the unfortunate man, and dragging him into the ship, immediately sold him.
More about the supply of slaves to the traders:
It is important to mention, however, that the supply of slaves to the Gold Coast was entirely in African hands. Although powerful traditional chiefs, such as the rulers of Asante, Fante, and Ahanta, were known to have engaged in the slave trade, individual African merchants such as John Kabes, John Konny, Thomas Ewusi, and a broker known only as Noi commanded large bands of armed men, many of them slaves, and engaged in various forms of commercial activities with the Europeans on the coast.
It is a fact that slavery was long endemic in Africa at the beginning of the Transatlantic slave trade and it was employed by black Africans. What about in the US? Did free black men in the US ever own slaves?
You betcha. Let’s turn to our old friend Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
One of the most vexing questions in African-American history is whether free African Americans themselves owned slaves. The short answer to this question, as you might suspect, is yes, of course; some free black people in this country bought and sold other black people, and did so at least since 1654, continuing to do so right through the Civil War.
(H/T retire05)
And they weren’t really happy about having to part with them:
When New Orleans fell in late April 1862 to the Union, about 10 percent of these men, not missing a beat, now formed the Native Guard/Corps d’Afrique to defend the Union. Joel A. Rogers noted this phenomenon in his 100 Amazing Facts: “The Negro slave-holders, like the white ones, fought to keep their chattels in the Civil War.” Rogers also notes that some black men, including those in New Orleans at the outbreak of the War, “fought to perpetuate slavery.”
So for two hundred years blacks in the colonies and later the US owned black slaves. And it wasn’t just black men:
It would be a mistake to think that large black slaveholders were only men. In 1830, in Louisiana, the aforementioned Madame Antoine Dublucet owned 44 slaves, and Madame Ciprien Ricard owned 35 slaves, Louise Divivier owned 17 slaves, Genevieve Rigobert owned 16 slaves and Rose Lanoix and Caroline Miller both owned 13 slaves, while over in Georgia, Betsey Perry owned 25 slaves. According to Johnson and Roark, the wealthiest black person in Charleston, S.C., in 1860 was Maria Weston, who owned 14 slaves and property valued at more than $40,000, at a time when the average white man earned about $100 a year. (The city’s largest black slaveholders, though, were Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, both of whom owned 84 slaves.)
According to Gates, free blacks even owned white indentured servants.
Some other facts:
Slavery was officially abolished in the United States in 1865.
The importation of slaves into the US was outlawed in 1807.
New Jersey sort of abolished slavery in 1804:
In 1804 the New Jersey Legislature passed “An Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery.” It provided that females born of slave parents after July 4, 1804, would be free upon reaching 21 years of age, and males upon reaching 25. Like New York’s, this law held a hidden subsidy for slaveowners. A provision allowed them to free their slave children, who would then be turned over to the care of the local overseers of the poor (the state’s social welfare agency in those days). The bill provided $3 a month for the support of such children. A slaveowner could then agree to have the children “placed” in his household and collect the $3 monthly subsidy on them. The evidence suggests this practice was widespread, and the line item for “abandoned blacks” rose to be 40 percent of the New Jersey budget by 1809. It was a tax on the entire state paid into the pockets of a few to maintain what were still, essentially, slaves.
But some slaves were held there until 1865.
Now, some questions.
Hypothetically- let’s say slavery never existed. You’re a black person who presumably would be born anyway. Changing absolutely nothing, where in Africa would you prefer to live over living in America? Would you prefer Guinea, Cameroon or Nigeria to the US, changing nothing of today? Please, stand up and say so.
Let’s talk reparations. I’ve never owned slaves. None of my ancestors ever owned slaves. Who should pay? Should we not do a DNA analysis and determine who the descendants of the black owners of black slaves are and demand they contribute toward reparations? Shouldn’t reparations be the responsibility solely of the descendants of slave owners, blacks included?
Angry about slavery? Why aren’t you as angry with the descendants of the Africans who sold other Africans into slavery as you are with white Americans most of whom had NOTHING to do with slavery?
Now let’s talk the Founding Fathers. They weren’t perfect but those white men wrote these words:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..”
“all men are created equal…” Hmmm
Now it took a while to mature, but these words were the most powerful words ever written. They weren’t written in Africa. They weren’t written in the Islamic empire. They weren’t written in Asia or Polynesia or anywhere else.
They were written in America. So were these:
…that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
“…by their Creator…”
And a little later I’m going to tell you why liberals want these words stricken from the pages of history.
Fact: Slavery was long an African tradition when it was imported to North America. It was business as usual.
You think you know slavery? You don’t. Neither did I until wrote this.
Source for the map: Third World Atlas by Alan Thomas.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
@Greg:
Yep, emancipation for slaves was so important to Lincoln he waited three years to free them, and only in the south, not the north. Seems to me if it was that important, he would have freed them upon taking office. But he didn’t, did he?
In name only. We are more racially divided now than we have been since the 1960’s. And you can blame President Obama for that division. When is your beer summit with him?
@Tom:
Feel free to point out any factual inaccuracies in my post. See if you can stop looking like a jackass. At least try.
@Tom:
Tom, would you be better off living where you do now or anywhere in Africa? Which would you choose?
@Greg: That’s funny!.
Did these Black slave owners have their white slaves entertain them in blackface?
@retire05:
You have any “evidence” other than a web site with an obvious agenda for the claim that American aborigines were exported to the Caribbean? I’ve never read word one supporting that claim.
The Spanish certainly made a business of enslaving native peoples, but not the English.
BTW it wasn’t uncommon even into the 19th century for Islamic slavers to raid along the coasts of Ireland for slaves.
@Mockingird:
Google it. I’m tired of trying to be research assistant for people like you and it’s not my problem you lack historical knowledge. You want me to do your research, it’ll cost you. Plenty.
@Tom:
Stupidity?
@Greg: YOU are on DRUGS. Get with your dealer and tell him to get you the good stuff. Your’e an IDIOT. Stop trying to be smart, you are the furthest thing from smart. Actually I’m amazed you can even breathe. “were actually sympathetic African Americans who were formerly white slave owners. ” What a maroon.
@rich wheeler: 12
And you’re dreaming, much as Tom does. When did any lib hold their own? It’s a combination of liberal education and no sense.
I think it strange that you think that the white slaves that were owned by black slave owners were not important. I’ll bet their moms did.
@Mockingird: Try, First Peoples, First Contact: Native Peoples of North America by J.C.H. King. It is used as a text for collegiate anthropology courses on Native Americans. It makes clear reference to Native Americans being sold into slavery into the West Indies by European powers including the English. As an example, during the Pequot War of 1637, the English along with their Narragansett allies killed numerous Pequots in east Connecticut and sold the few survivors into West Indian slavery (p.46).
@Bill: One thing that can be said about slavery. Basically every black slave ever sold was sold by a black man into slavery. If guilt is meaningful, is a man that captures a person, takes them away from their family and sells them into slavery have more or less guilt than the person that buys that person and then owns him? I’ll leave that to each individual to hold their own beliefs. While the only slavery remaining in the US is sex slaves, slavery is still very much a thriving business in many parts of the world and probably always will be. There is no section of the US that is more or less guilty than others with the possible exception of the area around Rhode Island which was responsible for more than half of the slaves brought into this country.
@rich wheeler: 27.
Rich are you trying to convince someone that you know of what you speak? You’ve ‘walked in their shoes’ ? I don’t think so.
@retire05:34 ◦
The North abolished slavery in December 1865, about 8 months after the War of Northern Aggression ended
And in addition to DeWolf in Rhode Island, the Brown family became one of the richest in the country with his slave trading. Rhode Island alone accounted for over 50% of all African slaves brought into the country. Brown University was founded on money donated by Mr Brown.
@retire05: 35
I think I read somewhere that Rich was in his assless chaps, though I haven’t seen the photos. I’m sure Rich has seen them. I heard he might have been waving the rainbow flag also. Tell us where the photos of the parade are Rich. give us a link.
@rich wheeler:
You were at that one? Very good.
@Greg:
I think he should be regarded as what he was, a president that exceeded his powers in more ways than one. (similar to Obozo) illegally issuing Eman Proc. and illegally sending troops into the southern states. Oh,, and telling quite a few lies in the Gettysburg Address. Other than that……….
@drjohn:
Obviously I’m not here to challenge your ridiculous cherry picked “facts”. I’m challenging your intent. I’m challenging your multiple ridiculous premises. Your intent is quite obvious. You’re providing “factual” ammunition and talking points for narcissistic aggrieved white conservatives who are upset that after a racist murdered nine black people, “the Left” is trying to make them feel bad. Just as you cultivate the white right wing victim complex (“leave our flag alone”) you offer a laundry list of excuses for why no white person should care one way or the other about the contemporary or historical grievances of African Americans. Where the lie really lies is in your inference that anyone is actually being blamed, that white conservatives are under siege. All that has been asked of you is empathy. But the call to empathy, to walking a mile in another man’s shoes, is foreign to you and the selfish people you serve, who are eager for the solace you offer to feel nothing but contempt. As already pointed out, you’re just working well-trodden ground. Real admitted white supremacists have been trotting this stuff out for years. You’re still on the JV squad if you think this is novel.
As for your premises, they are comical.
As much as I thought you couldn’t lower the bar, this one actually shocked me. You’re really going to work the Cliven Bundy “black people were better off as slaves” motif? Or should i say, “black people should be thanking we took their ancestors over here as slaves” spin you’ve put on it?
I enjoyed this one too:
So African American anger over slavery has no legitimacy unless it’s partially/mostly focused on a hypothetical black man? This is your message to the descendents of slaves, most of whom have ancestors who were born in America and whose ancestry traces back hundreds of years in America? But most of all, WHY would it matter if a black person was sold by another black to a white person who then OWNED them?? Why do think this should make anyone’s opinion slavery change?
Here is an example of nonsense offered without a shred of support:
Here is an example of a non sequitur statement that is unprovable and also proves nothing that went before:
The whole thing is a mess. It's unflattering for you, it's unflattering for those who crave this sort of thing to avoid actually engaging with incredibly complicated and painful realities. .
Here’s an old source, should anyone be interested in the topic of Indian slavery. INDIAN SLAVERY IN COLONIAL TIMES WITHIN THE PRESENT LIMITS OF THE UNITED STATES, a doctoral thesis by Almon Wheel Lauber, Ph.M., 1913.
Caveats are in order. From the linked document:
In other words, what little information there was on the subject was uncertain. The author elaborates:
So, the few primary sources often aren’t even clear about their definition of slavery. The author apparently just did the best he could with what there was to work with. It seems unlikely that the definitions his sources were using have become any more certain with the passage of another one hundred and two years.
It’s interesting that Enslavement of American Indians by Whites cites Lauber as a source. It makes me wonder how much credibility is lent by a list of references at the end of an article. In the absence of sufficient well-documented facts, what we really have is opinion.
@Greg:
which article of the constitution gave the president the power to seize property without compensation? you won’t have any problem answering that since your education is ‘sufficient’.
@rich wheeler:
And you know racism when you see it, right? But, but, it was just a joke………..
@Tom:
I can hardly wait til the facts of his politics come out. I’ll bet he is a leftie………
@Tom: 67
Oooooohh Tommy, you stole that from Richie just above. He was just walking in some slaves shoes and now you are walking in some slaves shoes. Hope you got some good movies of this walk and tell us where we can find us some slave shoes to walk around in so we can all ‘share’ that empathy. Geeezzz.
@Tom: 67
uh oh, that lib education is showing up again. You missed all the history lessons above. It was ‘black’ people that sold the ‘black’ people into slavery. Black people should acknowledge that it was their ancestors that sold them into slavery.
@Redteam:
Yeah, I’m having a hard time placing his politics from what we know, aside from noticing they’re apparently very much like yours.
@Redteam, #69:
I think none was required, since there was no Constitutional basis for regarding one human being as the personal property of another to begin with.
@Greg: 68 History is just that His Story. Wouldn’t you slant your narrative a little if you had to write your history of how you murdered hundreds of indians and captured and sold them into slavery? You think those folks are proud of it and that they went out of their way to ensure that the details and facts and credits were all properly given. Or do you think they might forget to mention or write down a few details?
@Redteam:
You mention the word “education” quite often in your posts. It’s kind of ironic.
@Tom:
Oh, and you have information that I have killed some folks?
@Tom: Just for the record, in the Trayvon Martin case, it was a black man that attempted to kill a white man but accidentally killed himself in the process. right?
@Tom:
Something you’re not familiar with?
@Greg: I’ll just say ‘ignorance is no excuse’. I won’t even blame that on liberal education.
For the record, I didn’t mention slaves, I mentioned property.
@Redteam, #76:
Yep. As Sir Winston Churchill observed, “History is written by the victors.” Lord only knows what the history books would say if Germany had won the Second World War.
@Redteam:
Don’t be ridiculous. I don’t think you’re a racist loser who is also a homicidal maniac. Just a racist loser.
@Greg: The internet was just getting started in 1913, so access was limited.
@Tom: Is your kindergarten class out for the summer? Mommy shouldn’t let her little boy play with the computer, especially while on Pot.
@Redteam: This is an example of your pure stupidity RT. I don’t know why you even attempt to debate Tom.
He consistently shows you to be a fool. I once had minimal respect for you RT but you continue to show that you are simply a tired old racist..
@rich wheeler: You and Tom hanging out in your assless Chaps there Richie? Do you give tom credit for an IQ level above stupid?
I was going to say the Libs have gone off the Deep end again, but they actually never got out.
@rich wheeler: I notice you’re still pointing out ‘racists’, the no. one item for practicing racists. You sure keep racism on your mind don’t you. Must be your Chaps.
@Redteam: Let’s not forget how much you hate the gays RT. Hell you seem to hate anyone that isn’t white and straight–you are strictly backwoods. The good news is your kind are dying off.
@rich wheeler:
Making it up as you go along, Richie? Is it ok with little Tommy’s mom for him to hang with you in your Chaps? Did he bring over his rainbow flag?
@rich wheeler:
I guess you think your Chaps will keep you from dying off?
Richie, how come you won’t tell us where you put those slaves shoes that you went walking in? We asked so we can all share your experience. Is it a secret?
@Tom:
Because you can’t. They’re unassailable and they were chosen from very considered sources.
No, you liar. I said that I thought the flag should have come down long ago but was it sent up by a liberal democrat.
Another absolute lie. A Tomism. I offered a lesson in history. I am highly principled and one thing that irritates the crap out of me is hypocrisy- like yours- but liberals are nothing without hypocrisy.
I notice you dodged the hypothetical. You’re too afraid of the truth to answer it.
I never said that. YOU DID, because you’re a moron. I believe that anger really ought to be properly directed. I’ve never owned slaves. I don’t know why anyone who has never owned slaves (especially anyone whose ancestors never owned slaves) deserves to the target of invective about slavery. Maybe you have and that could be the reason for your white liberal guilt. If anger is to be expressed, that anger need also to be directed toward ALL who participated- but holding the sins of the father against the son? Really? Another Tomism.
There are certainly relatives of the Africans who sold other blacks into slavery here. Have you EVER seen anyone suggest that they be included in the responsibility for slavery? When was the last time any of us saw Don Lemon or some other idiot liberal want to lay blame on Africans for making slavery an every day part of life? When do you liberals lament slavery still existing in Africa? Slavery was imported to the Americas from Africa. It was not created here. Sure it was wrong, but it was ended here. It still exists in Africa and in Islamic countries.
Yes, Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. He also found it abominable. Yet he helped write some of the most immortal words in history. Words that would make this country as great as it is. Words that could allow everyone to be free and avail themselves of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The pursuit, Tommy. Not the guarantee.
I know I scared you away from having to commit yourself. I do that to liberals whose heads are so addled with absurd notions of political correctness that facts taken from well regarded black historians and from African countries appear to be right wing racist propaganda in their compromised brains.
Liberalism is a disease.
@Tom:
Tom
Is slavery an African tradition? Yes or no?
@Tom:
You see, Tom, when looney liberals besmirch Thomas Jefferson as though he alone was responsible for slavery it’s pathetic. Right now he’s the lightning rod for liberal indignation. I would wager a great deal of money that few if any liberals believe anything other than the Kunta Kinte version of history- that white men hunted down the Levar Burtons, kidnapped him and sold him into slavery in the colonies. I’d wager that none of them know that slavery was endemic in Africa and that black Africans sold other black Africans into slavery by the millions. It’s was wrong- by today’s mores. It was indeed business as usual back then- for Africa, for South America, for Islamic countries and then by extension, the colonies. It probably took guts to even voice opposition as it did to suggest women had the right to vote. Voices like Jefferson’s eventually became the catalyst for change. That deserves to be respected.
@rich wheeler: Jim Webb..will check it out, thanks.
I agree with you. I’m a bit odd here, because I can’t say I’m really for the Repubs that much. My passion for the past few years has been more about fallacious reasoning and the Dems. The Reps have plenty of their own, and I won’t defend them for that.
I’m an actual Moderate…and I think I represent the majority of the electorate out there. Regardless, we in America have this crappy see-saw built from the Dems and Reps (how horrible is that!?). I’m just for a balance: this country is based on millions of different views, and any person, organization, party, or cultural meme that infringes on that freedom is suspect, and I’ll oppose it vehemently.
Have a great 4th too, sir.
(Not a Marine, but I was a Submariner…)
Oh my. Well, I think the debate boils down to a few points, brought out by most posters with the exception of Greg and Tom (muddling the issue with distractions).
On the right:
Slavery isn’t a “white” institution and using it to further a class/race division is wrong.
On the left (from Rich, almost exclusively):
American Blacks primarily descend from slaves, and that cultural foundation isn’t something you just wish away. It’s a real problem, and current blacks suffer from the decades of poverty and real oppression. Show some empathy.
Settles (sort of…not really…but..)
I agree with Bill Whittle in the idea that Booker T. Washington’s idea were better than WEB DuBois, and had the African community followed Washington, the current situation would be way, way different.
@DrJohn:
Nice rebuttals, DrJohn.
It really is too bad that liberals can’t get as worked up over PRESENT day slavery.
I guess since it is non-whites doing the enslaving it won’t fit into their phony narrative.
Raise your hands if you think those 14 female ”suicide” bombers that Boko Haram used earlier this week were volunteers.
Of course they were not.
Human bombs.
That is the ultimate in enslavement.
What a pathetic bunch of conservative whining.
Please link me to any story by CNN or MSNBC in which someone said the founding fathers invented slavery? What a babyish rant.