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Fact: Slavery was long an African tradition when it was imported to North America. It was business as usual

Question for you: So are you saying being a slave was a tradition or business as usual?

Question for me: Why am I wasting time on a white supremacy blog?

We’ve been wondering exactly the same thing fella. You’re too stupid to understand facts when they’ve been presented to you. You are far too much of a narrow minded Leftist fool to accept or even ever so slightly consider that, in-spite of overwhelming proof, that your preconceptions are WRONG.

@Tom:

I said slavery. Didn’t I? Feel free to explore any and all of my links.

@upChuck.Liberals:
Tom proves my point. There is no room for facts and truth in the perverted, warped world view of liberals so they flail against it. Ad hominem is so much easier than intellectual pursuit.

We USED to know history……
19th-century European engraving of Arab slave-trading caravan transporting African slaves across the Sahara.comment image

I know of no abolitionist movement in the Arab or wider Islamic world.
There is nothing in the Arab or Muslim world comparable to the Christan-based Abolitionist Movement in England and America that brought about an end to slave trade and slavery itself in the Americas and Europe.
Why was there no Islamic abolitionist movement?
I assume it was because the Holy Koran clearly sanctions slavery.
Thus Islamic clerics and theologians, unlike their Christian counterparts, never challenged an institution so clearly sanctioned by the Koran.

There are more slaves being held right now by Muslims than there EVER were in total held in the Americas.

What about the Vikings? Lots of white slaves of white owners there. How about the Hebrews? Slaves in Egypt, as I recall. And that was 3500 years ago!
Older records are lacking, but slavery is an entrenched custom throughout the world.

Awhile back, I watched an episode of Sleepy Hollow. A character invoked the name of Thomas Jefferson for something noble, then a black character pointed out Jefferson owned slaves…so that was that.

The aim to negate Jefferson as an important and good part of our history was obvious, and all by using “twitter logic”, as I’d call it.

As usual, liberals are overrepresented in entertainment, and that unduly influences culture, particularly the young.

Slavery’s a complex issue. Hell, Ben Affleck’s ancestor’s owned slaves. Should we take his movies off the shelves?

@Tom:

Question for me: Why am I wasting time on a white supremacy blog?

Because you’re a deranged troll, buying into the new American bigotry, mirroring your non-existent enemy…becoming something far worse.

Ignorant, hateful, and lacking in objectivity.

Your insecurity and projection of psychosis is so apparent, no one here takes your comments seriously.

If anything, you reinforce the idea of “leftism” as a cultural disease that needs to be firmly opposed. You are so racist yourself, but will never see it.

I shared your views once upon a time…when I was sixteen. Get some education and grow up. And by all means, feel free to spare us all your idiocy. You never have a point, beyond childish thrashing of half-thoughts and media-induced stupidity.

And you hate white people.

@Tom:

Question for me: Why am I wasting time on a white supremacy blog?

Indeed, if you can’t endure having all your left wing, racist, hate-driven propaganda dispelled, why ARE you here?

@drjohn:

Tom proves my point. There is no room for facts and truth in the perverted, warped world view of liberals so they flail against it.

Or, they forget their original argument and pivot to some new, unrelated idiocy.

@Nanny G: Like racism here in the US that was (up until Obama and his ilk made it a campaign platform plank) dying out, so apparently was slavery among Muslims until ISIS revived it.

The Democrats have been getting away for years with the practice of blaming white Republicans for all the racial injustices that exist today and it has only been since the left has taken their threats and accusations way over the top that people actually began researching the origins of the problems. As it turns out, as is usually the case, those with the longest pointing fingers and making the loudest accusations are representing those bearing the most guilt. Perhaps they should simply learn to shut up and, instead of blaming everyone else for problems THEY generate, would try harder to improve the human condition.

Nahhhh……

Tom says “Why am I wasting time on a white supremacy blog? ”

I sure would like to hear Skook’s take on that one. 🙂

You know, this is getting to the point where the Greg’s and Toms of the world are beyond the “troll” designation. They are completely against not only the truth, but insist on throwing out hate for anything this country was built on, that is unless one points out that very fact to them.

When it is pointed out that Blacks owned White slaves–give me a break.
It’s like saying –don’t exercise–look what happened to Jim Fixx.
It’s OK to smoke–my aunt lived till 102 smoking 2 packs a day.
Formal education is unnecessary–my uncle dropped out in 5th grade and became CEO of a Fortune 500 company’
My aunt won 10 million in the lottery
My 3rd cousin was killed by lightning——-

Most anything is possible–though statistically insignificant.
I came here to learn about Conservative principles. Posters like Aye Chi, Mata, Word and Skooks have been helpful. and inspiring.
Others have painted a rather ugly far right reactionary picture.

I think Tom is an outstanding proponent of the liberal principles that are at a premium here at FA. He more than holds his own in debate and I commend him for that.

Wish everyone a great 4th——Semper Fi

Well done John. You dealt with African slaves and the time-honored ongoing culture of slavery in the Muslim world; however, let’s not forget the Brits’ habit of selling Irish malcontents into slavery in the West Indies and the culture of feudalism that gripped Europe, Eurasia, and Russia for centuries. We tend to forget that the terms Slav and serf are polite terms for slaves. You remember from eighth grade history class where the elites owned the land and the people on it.
I have a ten thousand word article on this same subject that will be published soon, but in the mean time you can read Trans-Atlantic slavers by me on FA. There have been monsters among all races; Whites have no monopoly on this vice. People have been taking advantage of dupes who will follow blindly for thousands of years. Playing the race card is A cheap trick, perpetrated by those who feel cornered and are intellectualy defenseless.

@rich wheeler:

When it is pointed out that Blacks owned White slaves–give me a break.
It’s like saying –don’t exercise–look what happened to Jim Fixx.

The FACTS are not there to justify slavery or equivocate it. They serve to put the argument in context; slavery was not a “white man putting the black man down” institution; is was a business. Further, there were no races, groups or demographics that were, in total, opposed to it. EVERYONE did it; free labor made pretty good business sense.

So, what these facts show is that it is not totally the white man’s guilt (oh… note that I don’t capitalize “white” either). Nor does the south bear all the guilt. Nor the Confederacy. Nor Republicans; in fact, perhaps Republicans least of all, yet they get ALL the blame.

Last summer my wife and I visited Louisiana and toured about 6 plantations. No where was slavery defended, excused or missed. Clearly, it was a despicable enterprise, but none (that we saw) worse than at the Laura Plantation, once operated by a Creole family. It, by far, treated the slaves the worst, yet some paid slaves wages (meager, to be sure). Sugar, not cotton, was king in Louisiana.

We all can share a proportion of the blame for the abuses of slavery, but those who bear the MOST responsibility should be less anxious to blame everyone else. THAT is the crux of the message.

@rich wheeler:

When it is pointed out that Blacks owned White slaves–give me a break

Are you denying that free blacks owned white slaves? Or are you going to do what progressives like you generally do, parse words saying they were not slaves, just “indentured servants for life?”

I think Tom is an outstanding proponent of the liberal principles that are at a premium here at FA.

So you agree with Tom’s habit of indicating that he thinks anyone who is white, and not a Democrat, is nothing more than a modern day racist? No surprise; you’re just as radical as he is.

@Bill: @Nanny G: Like racism here in the US that was (up until Obama and his ilk made it a campaign platform plank) dying out, so apparently was slavery among Muslims until ISIS revived it.

It was ONLY ”appparently,” Bill.

For instance, the Saudis were buying smallish boys then doing all sorts of nasty things to them so they would stay small.
All that so they could be camel jockeys.
Now, if you know this, sorry to bring it up, but, camel jockying is one of the most dangerous things anyone can do.
Boys were dying in great numbers, necessitating the pipeline for more camel jockys be kept filled with new boys.
Tourists from the West saw these camel races.
These tourists saw boys die during these races.
Their outrage led…..not to a ban on camel races, no…..to camel racing becoming an underground activity that tourists can no longer watch.

And another example, Saudi household slaves taken with their masters into the West were being killed by their masters at the same rate as back in the Kingdom.
BUT, in the West, killing someone is considered wrong even if you claim to own that person!
So, Saudis were starting to be tried in western courts.
In France a Saudi who murdered his male slave in an elevator was sent to prison.
In Colorado a Saudi who tortured, raped and threatened to kill his female slave was also sent to prison.
This bad press didn’t lead to a lessening of Saudi slave owning.
It led to a pamphlet about how to act when travelling outside the Kingdom with one’s slaves!

Both those were examples taken AFTER 9-11-01 but before ISIS rose.
Slaves are still widely held in most of the oil rich Arab/Islamic states.
PR campaigns insure that you just don’t hear about it anymore.

Modern day school children are taught the evils of slavery by referencing only to the importation of Africans to the New World. Slavery had existed in the New World long before the importation of the first 20 Africans. But don’t talk about that; no, no, no, make slavery a strictly white atrocity against only blacks.

It is estimated that between 1650 and 1730 at least 50,000 Indians (and likely more due to transactions hidden to avoid paying government tariffs and taxes) were exported by the English alone to their Caribbean outposts. Between 1670 and 1717 far more Indians were exported than Africans were imported. In southern coastal regions entire tribes were exterminated through slavery compared to disease or war.

http://nativeamericanhistory.about.com/od/controversies/a/The-Untold-History-Of-American-Indian-Slavery.htm

Native Americans were exported to work the interests of both the Spanish (Hispanics) and the white Europeans to their interests in the Caribbean isles.

I have repeatedly stated that no one race or ethnic group is free of the sin of slavery, or the deliberate attempt to annihilate another race. But those on the left don’t want to acknowledge that history. If anyone thinks that the Indian wars were anything other that an attempt to either annihilate a race, or subjugate it, they are denying history for political convenience.

Blacks, once freed, were allowed to own land, to build businesses, to marry and have families, and to become quite wealthy. Native Americans continue to be persecuted, their lands and property stolen by the Federal government for the purpose of allowing whites, and free blacks, to take those lands for their own. They were shoved onto government owned reservations, and no federal agency was as corrupt as the Bureau of Indian Affairs (it is still a disgrace). Free blacks were allowed to own firearms; Native Americans were not. Freed blacks were allowed to practice tribal traditions (the birth of what is referred to as “voodoo”) while Native Americans were not.

People like Tom will refuse to acknowledge that the Buffalo Soldiers slaughtered more Native Americans than the number of blacks killed by evil slave masters or lynched in post Civil War America. Why? Because the grievance industry is a very lucrative business. Just ask Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, who have built fortunes on the grievance industry and victimization.

It is time to be honest about slavery, be it the enslaving of Africans brought to the New World via the Atlantic slave trade (the first American slave ship was built in Boston and sailed out of Boston) or the exportation of Native Americans to serve European interests. But to do that would eliminate the “but, but………..slavery” meme by those who profit from continuing the revision of history.

Mr. Wheeler, you should take the time to read the diaries of ex slaves from America who were brought to the Shores of Western Africa, Liberia, by the American Colonization Society.. This attempt was a failure. However, many of the ex slaves became slave holders themselves. Many used slavery scale of worth based on the local tribes enslaved. The Romans used a scale of 1-.10 when sorting the value of slaves.{ The English were a 10 for they could not follow correctly the simplest of tasks.}

You wrote four paragraphs , I found agreement with one. Does this means 25% is “…statistically insignificant?

@DrJohn: Glad to inspire. History is so complex, and really just a guessing game. We, as a society, decide what parts we emphasize and what lens we see it through.

“History as Religion” is bad, whichever side of the aisle it comes from.

Exploiting the history of slavery for political gain is deplorable, and it’s even more disconcerting that the majority of those exploiting it are, in fact, white.

@rich wheeler: I don’t think anyone is making excuses for slavery. I have researched and written more than one paper on the CW and shared it with Skook and RT. Blacks not only owned slaves, but they also fought for the South. Those that did, received their freedom and that began before the Emancipation Proclamation. Unlike blacks who served in the Union Army, those who served in the Confederate Army received the same pay and rations. Some freed slaves returned to the South because of the way they were treated by
the Union Army. Was any that widespread? No, although the numbers serving with the South increased as the war went on especially after the South began emancipation their slaves in return for serving. A policy backed by Lee.

Is any of this an excuse for slavery? No. But it IS history. To ignore it or squash it perverts history. Unless I’m mistaken, that was the point of the thread.

The Trans-Atlantic Slavers Skookum flopping aces

I am using an iPad and i am in the mountains with limited service, so I can’t post the link, but you can read about the Black Irish slaves and the slavery that is not politically correct

@rich wheeler: Rich, I’ll say that you are one of the few who give closer-to-cogent comments in defense of liberal thought. Tom, however, spews a cultural contagion of leftist hate that isn’t backed by rational thought. It’s basically a cult at this point, worshiping the god of Hatred towards White, Christian, Male, Heterosexuals as the source of all evil in the world. It’s simply not true.

At least you seem to seek truth. Tom does not. FA is a place for him to project, and he’ll see the enemy he so desperately needs in any post, and any comment.

Regarding the “black owned slaves” topic, see the cult above. The point of this article is to combat the myth that slavery is unique to American Whites from hundreds of years ago…when slavery was used all around the globe. Christian White Men abolished slavery, and fought and died to end it. That will always make the issue tricky, because there’s no enemy to beat. The enemy was within the self for all Americans, as it is today. Liberty and equality for all people prevailed, and the mainly western European cultures that built the foundations of this country made that happen. It’s just historical fact.

We live in the most diverse, most free nation on the planet. Nowhere can someone of any background, race, or sex have the same opportunities. While I agree that we should strive for justice for all, always reevaluating our society to see where justice isn’t being met, the Democratic Party stokes and uses the idea inequality for the usual things: money and power.

There will always be bigots, and you can’t stop that. There is no perfect world, and the Toms of the world — ranting and parroting media talking points — can’t engineer a utopia by hating so-call conservatives. You can’t build love with hate.

@retire05:

But don’t talk about that; no, no, no, make slavery a strictly white atrocity against only blacks.

This is because the left does not care about racism or slavery or history but for how it can be used to further a political agenda. Thus, only speak of how the Confederacy enslaved blacks (the Confederacy, for their purposes here, being comprised of Republicans). The left will not acknowledge how Democrats pursued gun control once before, in history… to disarm blacks and keep them defenseless…. and how they made good use of that effort.

When you scrub away the noise from the finger-pointing guilt industry, America’s founders still created a Nation of laws which enabled the eventual abolition of slavery.

The whining from the self-hate industry, that the Constitution was written by slave owning white men, is just an attempt to justify the trampling and trashing we are witnessing of this foundational document.

The Constitution is one of the reasons why billions of people want to live in America. They want to live where they too can be entitled to certain inalienable rights and equal protection under the law.

The Constitution’s framers knew that it had its flaws, and, anticipated that through the centuries it would need to evolve, they allowed for its improvement — it is a living document. But that’s not good enough for those who wish to change the Nation.

In the meantime, while we witness infighting and burning of businesses on the streets, and get caught-up in assaulting one another, the globalist bankers and their political pawns are laughing all the way to infinite supremacy.

They are bringing new meaning to the terms “serf” and “slave.”

@mike191: and Dr. John 25% is statistically significant–would you venture a guess as to the percentage of slave owners that were black on white–We can look it up but I’d be very surprised if it’s over 1/2 of 1%-statistically insignificant

@Nathan Blue: Nathan I’ve always enjoyed your views on various posts—your responses are always thoughtful and not ideoloque based.
I read often the proposition that modern day Dems. are keeping minorities “on the plantation” for the benefit of Party leaders. I understand how some like yourself might feel this way.. I think Repub.leaders might do more to reach out to these minorities rather than pin hole them as welfarists, slackards and the like—–Until you’ve actually walked in their shoes–seen life from the inside—in a nutshell. Show some damn empathy. Have a great 4th Take a look at Jim Webb

@Bill:

[This is because] the left does not care about racism or slavery or history but for how it can be used to further a political agenda.

The left does not truly care about any of the issues they claim to care about be it gays, illegals, unwed mothers, poor people or any of the many other things they promote as being for.

Example: the left claims it is for black Americans. Yet what did it do? It threw the black church under the bus all in the name of marriage “equality.” It long ago threw blacks under the bus to support the illegals that are flowing across our border.

The left has only one desire; power. And if that means pitting one special interest group against another, it is more than happy to do so. All one has to do is read Marx and Gramsci and it becomes clear; control is power and only by having control over the lives of people do they gain the power over those very same people. If the left thought that throwing gays under the bus would win them elections, they would have done it. Once the politburo has control over the proletariat, only the politburo has any freedom. While the politburo lives as it wishes, the proletariat will pay for it.

Power is a jealous mistress. If it destroys all you believe in, then, as Gramsci so adeptly pointed out, you will have nothing to believe in but those in power.

@rich wheeler:

What does it matter what the statistic of black slave owners were ? Does a lower percentage than whites make what they did any less inhumane?

How about this percentage: if you took a poll of black Americans, how many do you think would know that blacks also owned slaves?

@James Raider:

The whining from the self-hate industry, that the Constitution was written by slave owning white men, is just an attempt to justify the trampling and trashing we are witnessing of this foundational document.

If it was written by evil, white, slave-owning racists, then they (sanctimonious leftists) have no obligation to honor the Constitution.

Mr. Wheeler, I agreed with your last paragraph period .The other paragraphs were banal gibberish .You neglected to read and/ or understand my initial post on 100% blacks owning other Black people, even when they were emancipated .
No one is saying Slavery is a beautiful historical practice.. However, it was a model of economy that has been used historically. Which brings us to this Nation and its historical roots of starting and ending this practice. The premise of a black on white slavery is still the practice of slavery. The % is a dodge to the post written and as others have suggested that you and Tom are one in the same.

That some of our most prominent Founding Fathers were slave owners is simply historical reality. Our ancestors were human beings, complete with their virtues and their flaws. As a nation, we have often been in the right but have sometimes been in the wrong. While there were undoubtedly slave owners who were very good people, slavery in America was an evil institution and racism was the main thing that made rationalization of it possible.

I don’t know what’s sanctimonious about openly recognizing those truths. Half of my own heritage lies in the south. I was told as a child that some of my relatives fought for the Confederacy. I know for a fact that racism was part of their world view. One of my grandfathers still had those racist views. He wasn’t outspoken or hateful about it, or about anything else that I ever observed. It’s just how he and his generation viewed the world.

What I object to are efforts to whitewash the past, or to somehow “rehabilitate” evil institutions by suggesting they weren’t quite so bad as we imagine, or that they were somehow OK because everybody else was doing it. The assertion that many free blacks owned slaves—even white slaves—is an example. Take out the word “many” and you might have a misleading statement that is at least accurate, though pretty much irrelevant when you begin comparing numbers.

@mike191: ” I consider you and Tom one and the same.” THANKS
I consider you and Ret 05 one and the same.

@Greg:

What I object to are efforts to whitewash the past, or to somehow “rehabilitate” evil institutions by suggesting they weren’t quite so bad as we imagine, or that it was somehow OK because everybody else was doing it.

Are you smoking crack? No one claims that slavery was acceptable. And if you want to talk about “whitewashing”, then why isn’t it taught in our public schools that Native Americans were the first to be sold into slavery long before the first African slave hit our shores, or why isn’t it taught that blacks also owned slaves?

It’s because even before the start of the War of Northern Aggression, the northern states were trying to “whitewash” their part in the slave trade. New Jersey listing slaves as “indentured servants for life” was just one such case of trying to rewrite northern state history.

According to the Tracing Center:

Contrary to popular belief:
Slavery was a northern institution
◦The North held slaves for over two centuries
◦The North abolished slavery only just before the Civil War
◦The North dominated the slave trade
◦The North built its economy around slavery
◦The North industrialized with slave-picked cotton and the profits from slavery

And this:

James DeWolf of Bristol, Rhode Island (1764-1837) was a United States senator and a wealthy merchant who, at the time of his death, was reported to be the second richest person in the country.

He was also the leading slave trader in the history of the United States.

Over fifty years and three generations, from 1769 to 1820, James DeWolf and his extended family brought approximately 12,000 enslaved Africans across the Middle Passage, making the DeWolf1 family our nation’s most successful slave-trading family.

Got that, Gullible Greggie? A Northerner, not a Southerner, was the second richest man in the United States because of his prolific slave trading. How many history text books currently in U.S. schools do you think mentions that?

You not only are historically illiterate, you seem to want to stay that way so that you can continue to believe in the holiness of the North and the evil of the South.

Damn, man, do you want to remain an idiot the rest of your life?

@rich wheeler:

I guess to a progressive like yourself (although I don’t know what you think you are progressing toward) I am the personification of evil since I don’t agree with your pseudo Marxist beliefs.

That’s fine; I have a much respect for you, who has spit, more than once, on that uniform you claim to have proudly donned, as you do for me. Tell me, Rich, which gay “pride” event did you have such a good time at? Did you participate in the exhibitions?

@retire05, #34:

“The War of Northern Aggression?” What was the 33-hour bombardment of Fort Sumter? An accidental artillery discharge?

You not only are historically illiterate, you seem to want to stay that way so that you can continue to believe in the holiness of the North and the evil of the South.

I live in the United States of America, which is all one nation. Where do you think you live?

@Tom:

@Tom:

So presenting documented FACTS showing that blacks participated in enslaving their own kind as the first link in Africa and as free men themselves in America just bounce off your closed mind and get mis-labeled “white supremacism”? The truth may hurt you but put on your big boy pants and deal with it. Refute or shut up. Your non sequitur taunt belongs in a kindergarten playground.

@retire05: I enjoyed Gay Pride Parade in L.A. , Patriots Day Parade in Laguna Beach and this Sat 4th of July Parade in Huntington Beach—-Great summer in So. Cal. Good to get out.
I certainly don’t see you as the “personification of evil” Just an example of a right wing reactionary.

@Greg: Do you have any idea where Ft. Sumpter is?

@Greg:

Do you need me to give you a history lesson on the events that precipitated the firing on Fort Sumter? I understand you are basically void of any historical knowledge, but damn, man, I know you can read.

Fort Sumter was the North’s “border” patrol that enforced the tariffs levied on the ships that entered Charleston harbor. Lincoln said:

“The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.”

Yet, contrary to what he had promised South Carolina government officials, he attempted to reprovision Fort Sumter and ordered 500 men on ships to make sure they did, even if they had to invade South Carolina. Lincoln knew that he was going to be unable to collect both the import, and export, tariffs collected from the South. He didn’t want to lose the money.

Can you even name the wounded at Fort Sumter? How many were killed?

I see you intend to remain illiterate when it comes to history. Why am I not surprised?

@retire05, #40:

Do you need me to give you a history lesson on the events that precipitated the firing on Fort Sumter?

From one of your revised text books? No thank you. I have little interest in Alternate History. I prefer either factual material or totally unambiguous fiction.

I’m becoming confused about whether the right wants to claim Lincoln as the republican who ended slavery over the objection of traditionally racist democrats, or to condemn him as the northern tyrant who launched a war of aggression against the southern republic.

@drjohn:

Dr. John, I thought you might enjoy this eerily similar post from Stormfront, the neo-Nazi white supremacists board. They have many similar posts on race that would sit comfortably next to yours. Enjoy!

The Truth About Slavery

Now these liberal lies are easily countered by facts. The primary fact that must be emphasized is that many hundreds of thousands of White people were slaves in early America. In fact, White slavery was not only extremely common, but until the late 18th century it was far more common than Black slavery here. Also little known is the fact that living and labor conditions for Black slaves, bad as they often were, were usually far better than those for White slaves.
….
Leaving aside for the moment the very questionable idea of punishing the great-grandson for the sins of the great-grandfather, let us consider the principles involved. Far more Whites in America are descendants of White slaves than are descendants of slave owners. And considering the endemic nature of slavery in Black Africa, it is quite likely that a large proportion of Blacks in America have ancestors who were themselves slave owners. So let us hear no more of White guilt and endless payments and “affirmative action” to atone for the sin of the enslavement of Blacks. These endless payments themselves are a form of slavery. For the good of all races and peoples, let us rid ourselves of slavery for all time.

@rich wheeler:

I’m sure you enjoyed all the men in their thongs and G-strings. And the feathers, gotta love the feathers.

Were you getting your Dorothy on?

@Laine:

So presenting documented FACTS showing that blacks participated in enslaving their own kind as the first link in Africa and as free men themselves in America just bounce off your closed mind and get mis-labeled “white supremacism”? The truth may hurt you but put on your big boy pants and deal with it. Refute or shut up. Your non sequitur taunt belongs in a kindergarten playground.

I don’t have to refute it. It’s irrelevant to any conversation regarding the legacy of slavery in America. How exactly does the race of any particular slaver change the experience of any particular slave? How does it mitigate the experiences of the millions of slaves born in this country over hundreds of years? No, I think this is all just Right Wing butt-hurt.

@Tom, #42:

Astonishingly, many of the people attending past Klan marches and rallies were actually sympathetic African Americans who were formerly white slave owners. The entire point of the robes and pointy hats was to conceal this fact and to demonstrate the irrelevance of race to the cause.

@Greg:

From one of your revised text books? No thank you. I have little interest in Alternate History. I prefer either factual material or totally unambiguous fiction.

Alternate history for you, Gullible Greggie, is anything that doesn’t comport with your preconceived perception of the Civil War and events leading up to it. You are willfully ignorant. Are you saying that Lincoln did not say that? Really? How dense are you?

I’m becoming confused about whether the right wants to claim Lincoln as the republican who ended slavery over the objection of traditionally racist democrats, or to condemn him as the northern tyrant who launched a war of aggression against the southern republic.

Lincoln was a man of conflicting opinions with no special love for blacks. He believed that any people had the right to remove the political bonds with another people, if it so served their interests, yet changed his mind about that when he ordered the invasion of Virginia. He believed blacks were inferior, and he didn’t mind violating the Constitution when it served his purpose. The nation had been embroiled in a violent war for three years when he decided he had to power to free slaves in states that no longer belonged to the Union (he didn’t free them in the northern states) and when the Copperheads were demanding to end the war and let the South go its own way.

I can’t believe a grown man (which I assume you are) can be so absolutely ignorant of history, which you seem to be. But then, you long ago showed that you are beyond being embarrassed about your idiocy.

@Greg:

Shhh. Your giving Dr John an idea for a post.

Slavery is a peculiar institution and most people automatically recoil with indignation at the thought of owning other people. However, the standard revulsion is most often a socially acceptable and predictable reaction by people who have only a superficial understanding of the depth of depravity and horror enacted upon the people of Africa and on the people of Ireland. The real story is the genocidal effect on both the culture and indigenous populations. The slave trade affected the innocents who were kidnapped and sold into bondage and those who were driven by greed to share in the profits of a grossly immoral enterprise; however, those who were robbed of husbands and fathers, and were left to perish from long lingering deaths, could only wonder why some men could be so cruel, to steal their loved ones. Little did they know of the profits that could be made from the abduction of men and of selling them into slavery. There was an insatiable hunger for slave labor. The New World needed slaves to labor until death set them free from the plantations and mines of the West Indies and both the American Continents. There were vast fortunes to be realized, but slave labor was also harmful to the owners of slaves. Their cultures were jaded and built upon unsound economic principles; when their slave culture collapsed, the economy collapsed as well. Most of those economies are still suffering from the ill-effects of that collapse.

Irish Slaves Could Be Beaten To Death Without Just Cause, Ireland Was Full of Them and They Were Cheap, Beating an Irishman to Death was of Little Consequence
Irish Slaves Could Be Beaten To Death Without Just Cause, Ireland Was Full of Them and They Were Cheap, Beating an Irishman to Death was of Little Consequence

Free men would never work themselves to death. The New World required slaves who would work until they died. It was the possibility of great profit that fueled this desire for slave labor, but it was the indifference to human suffering and misery that facilitated the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
Most of us were taught that whites from Ireland came to the New World as indentured servants; who were expected to serve an indenture of 7 to 12 years to pay for their transport. An indenture was a binding contract for labor over a specific period of time. A few Irish were transported as indentured servants before 1625, but from then on, all the Irish except for those who had the funds to emigrate, were sold as lifetime slaves to the highest bidder.

Without argument, until the 18th Century, North America imported more Irish slaves than African slaves. Why would there be a concerted effort to conceal these intriguing facts of history?

Early Discrimination In Its Purest Form
Early Discrimination In Its Purest Form

If one political party controls the educational system, it controls the textbooks as well. In the United States, Liberals have controlled our education system for six decades, and a major portion of their political platform is based on white guilt over the slavery of blacks and in the protection of these unfortunate victims. The truth that Irish slaves far outnumbered Africans in the US becomes an inconvenient fact of history.

No human should be too proud; slavery has existed in nearly every culture and each of us has antecedents on both side of the whip. Julius Caesar is credited with bringing over a million slaves to Rome as spoils of war from his many campaigns. Only a few of these defeated people ever saw their homeland again. There is no record of any Irish ever returning home to Ireland. The sum total cruelty inflicted upon the slave is unimaginable; unfortunately, slavery is alive today, and doing well in the Middle East. The Muslim still likes his domestic help to work cheap and the idea of a large harem has enticed the libido of every teenage male, but there is only one region in the world where fantasy can be reality, and only if you have enough money. However, slavery has never existed on the scale of the trans-Atlantic slave trade over a period of 300+ years, but make no mistake, the Atlantic slave transported millions of Black Africans and millions of White Irish.

@retire05, #46:

The nation had been embroiled in a violent war for three years when he decided he had to power to free slaves in states that no longer belonged to the Union (he didn’t free them in the northern states) and when the Copperheads were demanding to end the war and let the South go its own way.

My history is sufficiently sound. Lincoln had such presidential power and asserted it. The rebellion failed and the United States remained an undivided nation. That’s a point you somehow seem to have missed.

@Tom:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..”

Who wrote that, Tom?

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