More Holes Exposed In The IRS’s Story

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“I don’t think an apology is owed”
-IRS Commissioner John Koskinen

Note well the smirk on the face of the IRS Commissioner during this hearing. That smirk was on display all hearing long especially when he said no apology was owed to anyone because, well, they have lost anything in the last few months.

Can we use that excuse during an audit?

Today’s hearing about the IRS scandal told us one thing for sure. The IRS and this Administration is hiding something.

The IRS Commissioner John Koskinen has long tried to do the “I know nutting!” song and dance by asserting that he only found out about the missing emails a few months ago. One question would be even if this was true why would it take him a few months to let the investigating committee’s know?

But it’s not true:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/-O8d2hXYPiw[/youtube]

“You already knew in March they were not retrievable,” [Rep. Kevin] Brady alleged. “A, you didn’t inform the congressional investigation. B, two months later you told us you would provide all the emails without limitations. And you knew you didn’t have them.”

“By March, I did not know they were irretrievable,” Koskinen countered. Brady interrupted and reminded the commissioner that he had just testified under oath that he was aware of the problems associated with the emails in March.

“Mr. Commissioner, why, at this point, why should anyone believe you?” Brady asked.

“The IRS denied for two years targeting of Americans based on their political beliefs. That wasn’t the truth. They said it was a few rogue agents in Cincinnati. That wasn’t the truth. You said you were targeting liberal organizations. That wasn’t the truth. Then you assured us you would provide us all the emails in May and that wasn’t the truth. And today, you are telling us out of thousands of IRS computers, the one that lost the emails was a person of interest in an ongoing congressional investigation. And that is not the truth either.”

Rep. Paul Ryan blasted Koskinen over the lies:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/hkTUjKhNFWw[/youtube]

Isn’t quite coincidental that this epidemic of hard-drive failures only occurred on computers that principal players in this scandal used?

The lies kept growing and growing as the hearing went on. Ways and Means chair Dave Camp told the Commissioner that he received notice from the White House that the Administration had been advised of the missing emails in April, long before the investigating committees were. He asked why that would be?

“The IRS knew in February, or maybe even in March, and Treasury and the White House knew at least in April — but Congress and the American people didn’t find out until June. Were you purposely not telling us?” House Ways and Means Chair Dave Camp (R-Mich.) asked Koskinen. “Were you purposely not revealing this to the American people?”

“No, as I told you…our original thought was to complete the Lois Lerner email production–complete the review of what other custodians (IRS employees) had a problem, and produce a report to you, laying it all out,” Koskinen said.

“So why did the IRS inform the Executive Branch agencies, the White House, the administration, but kept it secret from the Congress, who was conducting an investigation?” Camp asked.

The Commissioner’s excuse was that he reported it to his parent agency, Treasury, and that he has no communication with the White House. That’s odd seeing how his predecessor, Douglas Shulman, visiting the White House almost every week.

Publicly released records show that embattled former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman visited the White House at least 157 times during the Obama administration, more recorded visits than even the most trusted members of the president’s Cabinet.

But the new Commissioner now has NO communication with the White House at all but somehow they were informed of the “problem” in April.

This thing stinks to high heaven.

Exit quote:

The closest insinuation between the IRS targeting scandal has been an unusual meeting between the IRS’ chief counsel, William Wilkins, and Obama on April 23, 2012. The chief counsel for the IRS would have no discernible reason for a private meeting with the president; his job would be to brief the IRS commissioner – at the time Douglas Shulman – who met with Obama the very next day.

The day after that, Wilkins sent a revised set of guidelines to Lois Lerner for the tax-exempt unit to use when applying extra scrutiny. To this day, no explanation for this meeting has been made public, even though records show that Wilkins spent hours at the White House with “POTUS” as his host.

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Mr. Koskinen doesn’t know a thing – firsthand.
He just sits there and lets the guilty parties tell him only what they want him to know.
Then he parrots that, as if it is everything.
One questioner pointed out to us that he is simply a good ”front man,” who gets organizations through tough times.
His act has worn thin.

The IRS, its commissioner, has been caught in a big lie. Moreover, it is the prevailing thought by this administration, and by extension, the IRS, is that we’re too stupid to know better.

Strictly off topic

On June 20, 1944, 70 years ago, ended the Battle of the Philippine Sea. Overshadowed even at the time by the Normandy invasion, it marked the destruction of the Japanese Naval Air arm and a number of ships, some, including two carriers, torpedoed by US submarines. The battle started with the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot and ended with the return of the aircraft at night in the “Mission Beyond Darkness,” where, to the everlasting respect of naval aviators, Admiral Marc Mitscher lit up the fleet in enemy waters to guide the planes home.
My late father flew his TBF Avenger of VT-16 from the USS Lexington against the Japanese fleet and is credited with a bomb strike on a carrier. He always said that after the Battle of the Philippine Sea, every day was gravy. I honor him and all those who fought in that far-flung and daunting theater of war, as I do all those all over the world who gave us so much by their sacrifices.
So many never came home, and to them, I offer my thanks in the most profound sense.

@MAKAYA: Thank you. And him.

Don’t forget former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman’s 157 White House visits

Just a small point, LL’s hard drive would have been replaced and data restored on probably the same day it crashed.
remove old drive, reload image, restore data from the most recent backup. If they were not doing backups…they should go to prison for that, being the IRS and all.

Somebody should have taken away Paul Ryan’s Mr. Microphone until he cooled down. He seems to think that the man whose integrity he has just publicly insulted is the one who owes somebody an apology.

“The American people have no reason to trust the IRS or, frankly, the administration on this issue,” said House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich.

He doesn’t speak for all the American people. I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the IRS, which is more than I can say for a great many politicians in general, and members of his own party in particular.

Anyone that works for the IRS, where our rights are routinely ignored, deserves to be insulted and when they retire they should have “IRS” tattooed onto their foreheads. Where I grew up, withholding the truth was the same as a lie. They lied.

But they never seem to be able to prove anything, do they? After years of investigations, they’ve yet to prove anything.

Where I grew up, we expected accusations to be backed up with evidence, and we didn’t assume that failure to come up with any proved that it existed but had been hidden.

@Greg: I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the IRS…..

Greg, NEVER take the word of only ONE IRS agent. NEVER.
You are TOO trusting.

If you call IRS with a problem, call a few times. Get either names of ID #’s of each agent for each answer.
Use the answer that the majority of agents come up with.
It might not be the first answer.
Lying and being lazy are not the same things.
IRS agents often give callers the first answer they think of instead of the correct one.
YOU will be responsible for using their wrong information.
Remember the way the IRS and other unionized gov’t groups work: they don’t.
And they are a protected class.
When MDs took the initiative to find ”lost” files for Vets at the VA, those unionized workers who ”couldn’t find any files,” got them put on report.
Taking care of the client is a low priority.
It’s the cover-up that is always worse than the ”crime.”

Note: IRS Commissioner John Koskinen is the same IRS honcho who told the committee many months ago that Lerner’s hard drive and files were archived. He either lied then or he is lying now. Not only that, he has lied in testimony continually to Congress, including in this weeks questioning. This man has has no integrity to have been “insulted”. The Committee Chair should have ordered him taken into custody then and there, following his testimony for Contempt of Congress. This corrupt, obfuscating, and arrogant IRS leadership has destroyed the reputation of the IRS as a neutral body. How anyone can believe that the IRS agency itself can retain it’s integrity or be expected to follow and a respect for the law, when it didn’t even secure the hard drives of the 6 agency members implicated and under investigation for misusing the Agency’s power, well, such belief defies logic.

Greg, wishes us to believe that without the evidence from Lerner’s computer, that there is no case. Nothing is further from the truth. What he doesn’t want us to remember, is the argument that his fellow Democrats gave over the Nixon administration when they wanted to impeach. That argument was that the cover-up is worse than the crime. If that was true then, then it is even more true now, when the IRS has deliberately destroyed evidence. (By sending the “crashed” had drive to a recycler, the agency ensured it’s destruction, and those officials who participated in removing the hard drive and transferring it for destruction, may now be charged with contempt of congress and with Federal felony conspiracy charges regarding the destruction of evidence.)

The actions of the IRS clearly indicates that they have engaged in a cover-up. The absurd part of the obstruction game they are playing, is that the evidence still must exist (in following IRS regulations,) on their servers and the server back-ups as well as in printed versions. Not only that but they would also still exist on the servers of any outside government agencies or personnel whom the suspected “ringleaders” emailed. If any of these IRS officers emailed anyone in the White House, those emails without question still exist, because it is mandated by Federal Law that all White House documents and computer communications be preserved.

Once again, E-mails are not stored on the user’s computer. Never have and never will. They’re stored on multiple off-site servers and thus, can not be “lost” or destroyed when the user’s hard drive fails, is destroyed, or is recycled (or whatever the latest gov. story is).

This proves, without doubt, that Lerner’s story is an outright lie. She knows it and we know it. Those who refuse to understand and/or care about this fact are 0Muslim’s shills, the lo-fos, and/or those on public assistance (many qualify as being all three).

@Greg: Ryan should have gotten up and slapped that cocky bastard Koskinen on camera. I realize Koskinen doesn’t have a part in whatever happened before, but that governmental cockiness derived from the trust that regardless of what happens, he will keep his job and pension and laugh all the way to the bank is repulsive and is getting a bit old.

Actually, if he is without blame or guilt in this scandal, it should be Obama doing the screaming. If he has had no part in orchestrating the illegal targeting and harassment of law abiding citizens for political purposes, this department is doing everything it can to make him look guilty. So, the fact that he aids and abets the stonewalling and subterfuge supports that assumption.

You, Greg, formerly accused the Bush administration of lying about the reasons for going to war in Iraq. Apparently you believe that, though as was actually shown, you have no basis to support that accusation other than you leftists want to believe the absolute worst in Bush’s motives. Now, when we have hundreds of meetings between the IRS and the White House and between the White House council and the IRS PRIOR to the targeting beginning, explanations for the targeting that obviously tries to stay just one step behind the evidence revealed and, finally, and event to explain why the administration will not hand over additional evidence that absolutely no one in the world believes (perhaps they downloaded a video offensive to Muslims onto their hard drives and it corrupted their email files and crashed the hard drive… we can expect this excuse next), you feel anyone in their right mind would simply accept it and move on.

” I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the IRS,” Of course not… you’re a liberal. The IRS doesn’t target those who dutifully defend the failed policies of the Obama administration.

@Bill, #13:

Ryan should have gotten up and slapped that cocky bastard Koskinen on camera.

Yeah, he could have called in Lindsey Graham from the Senate Chambers for back up, to make sure it was a fair fight. He made himself look like a fool. He insulted his witness, and then lost his temper when his witness wouldn’t have it.

The republican investigations are going to do the republican public image more damage than they do to that of the democrats. They’ve got them playing now in predictable rotation. The fact that they do this while accomplishing nothing probably accounts for Congress having the lowest approval ratings in living memory.

“I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the IRS,” Of course not… you’re a liberal. The IRS doesn’t target those who dutifully defend the failed policies of the Obama administration.

The IRS doesn’t generally cause problems for people who stay within the letter of the nation’s tax laws. People often create their own conflicts, by action, by inaction, and by attitude. This has been so under both republican and democratic administrations.

If you’re an organization that’s philosophically opposed to taxation and shows disdain for the IRS, its employees, and the federal government in general, it’s probably reasonable to expect that they’ll check if you claim a questionable tax exempt status.

@Greg

If you’re an organization that’s philosophically opposed to taxation and shows disdain for the IRS, its employees, and the federal government in general, it’s probably reasonable to expect that they might check if you’re claiming a questionable tax exempt status.

I didn’t realize that expecting the IRS, it’s employees and the federal government in general to follow their own rules, the laws of said government and the U.S. Constitution was considered disdain.

@Jay, #15:

I didn’t realize that expecting the IRS, it’s employees and the federal government in general to follow their own rules, the laws of said government and the U.S. Constitution was considered disdain.

Nobody said that it is. What I suggested is that if a group exhibits such disdain, it’s probable that their application for a tax exempt status might get a closer look. They’re pretty much identifying themselves as an entity that disagrees with tax laws to the very governmental organization that’s charged with making sure that they’re followed.

That was the logic that got Tea Party associated groups flagged for a closer look in an environment where enforcement budget cuts made it necessary to use limited IRS resources as effectively as possible.

The entire IRS “scandal” turns on the fact that republicans are disinclined to accept this explanation. They believe the flagging was a politically motivated conspiracy—something for which they’ve been unable to produce clear supporting evidence. So, they’re now claiming there’s been yet another conspiracy to conceal said evidence, and want people to believe that the very absence of evidence is itself evidence.

Every investigation intended to somehow implicate the White House in wrongdoing has as some point come down to this. In the end, there’s nothing but their endlessly repeated accusations. When one wears thin, they move the spotlight to the next.

@Greg: Perhaps, Greg, people who’s business it is to conduct governance have a big problem with any part of the government being used as an arm of any particular arm of any political party, as is suspected has been done with the IRS. To you and me, Greg, it is a point of contention. To someone whose business is government, it is an abomination.

For one party or another to use the IRS as a political tool is repulsive to some… to those who understand what all the implications of such action, gone unpunished, is. Even a few Democrats, not the target of the IRS additional scrutiny and harassment, have expressed outrage.

Maybe, Greg, it is a matter of principle that the government should not use its substantial power to attack political opponents of the party currently in power. That is totalitarianism and, as you make clear, though you are OK with it as long as YOUR party is in power, you might have different feelings on the matter if the opposition were calling the shots.

Ryan is doing you a favor. Your should be grateful.

Curt, the biggest HOLE is that there is absolutely no chance that the self-righteous Koskinen and the progressive shill Lehrner are telling the truth about the emails being lost because of one IRS Hard Drive crash. NO chance. In fact, the monkeys in the San Diego zoo know better.

There is not a software or hardware engineer in the country who would believe them. Those digital records are available. It just takes the ‘will’ to get them.

Congress is asking the WRONG PEOPLE for the information. They’ll never get anything from these ideologically dumbed zombies. They need to get to the guys who manage the data bases and servers with subpoenas.

All the missing emails are alive and well, and sleeping on MULTIPLE servers and mainframes around the country.

@Bill, #17:

Perhaps, Greg, people who’s business it is to conduct governance have a big problem with any part of the government being used as an arm of any particular arm of any political party, as is suspected has been done with the IRS.

Some people suspect that republicans are misusing their Congressional investigative powers in exactly such a partisan fashion, and would observe that this has been part of their standard operating procedure since the Clinton administration.

I’m beginning to lose track of all the issues under investigation, just as I lost track when Ken Star was given the mission of taking down Bill Clinton.

@Greg: “Troll – On!

@Greg: oh greggie ,i mean gregory the 3rd,bill caligula clinton was responsible for his problems not Ken Starr,you know that whole lying thing and sex with an intern and all

@Greg: Go back and look at the issues that dragged Clinton deeper and deeper into scandal. It all has “Bill Clinton” all over it, some of it literally as well as figuratively.

Once againit must be said, all the administration has to do is stop hiding behind the 5th Amendment, stop stonewalling, stop withholding evidence and stop deleting emails to get this over with. Consider, Greg, that there is but one reason for the White House to stand behind all this obstruction; that the White House is in this up to their necks and, if so, we, the people, need to know. In fact, it is the kind of thing we needed to know before November, 2012 so that a few Obama supporters still in possession of an open mind could have made a better and more educated decision.

Sure, every group applying for tax-exempt status needs to be examined. How long should such an examination take? Left leaning groups sure got the express-lane treatment; how many audits and how long should such an examination take? And should it be necessary to turn over private information to the Obama campaign? How does Media Matters still have tax exempt status if political ambiguity is a requirement? How about the tax exempt status of the organization started by Obama’s uncle that turned out to be a scam? Should that have had the same amount of scrutiny as something with “Constitution” in their name? Come on, Greg. We aren’t blind or stupid. We have our eyes and ears open. Really, come on.

@MAKAYA: Thank you for for the personal story. I have recently resettled my father-in-law into my home, he started the war as a sixteen year-old Marine fighter pilot, after an illustrious career with the CAP at the age of 14.

He is in the hospital now, recovering from pneumonia, but he has boxes of papers from the war and we are discussing the war in detail each day in the hospital. It is an emotional time; one of the nurses asked him if he had ever had surgery, and he said he thought he had over 40 surgeries to repair everything on his left side, from his head to his knee, so that he could continue to fly during the war. He told her he continued to fly, but he was given a 100% disability from the Marine Corps. He flew in two more wars with the CIA and was one our nation’s test pilots.

The nurse asked if he crashed or used a parachute and he told her he didn’t like those parachutes and he hated giving up those beautiful planes, but sometimes there was no other choice. Needless to say, he is a favorite in the hospital and people come to his room to meet a bonafide war hero.

I am learning many interesting facts about the war, we have been discussing the Doolittle raid and the invention of the variable pitch propeller that made the raid possible. In the near future, I hope to have some new and original insights into the Pacific War. I will do my best as an amateur historian.

He wants me to take him to the next Marine Corps birthday (in November), so he isn’t planning on checking out early. I will ask him about communicating with any vets or WWII buffs, because his mind is sharper than mine and he likes vets and those who are interested. He will be 87 on July 2. His name is Winton but he prefers to be called Carl. i have been with him everyday in the hospital, but tomorrow I must go back to work for at least one day. We hope to have him home in a few days.

@Bill, #22:

Once again it must be said, all the administration has to do is stop hiding behind the 5th Amendment, stop stonewalling, stop withholding evidence and stop deleting emails to get this over with.

It’s individuals who have availed themselves of 5th Amendment protection, not Obama or the Obama administration. Why should such a person willingly cooperate with their lynch mob?

And why should the Obama administration, for that matter? Republicans are clearly targeting the presidency, not attempting to reveal the full truth about any particular issue. They’re attempting to exploit any and every uncertainty to their partisan advantage, without regard for the damage it might do to U.S. foreign policy, to public confidence in government institutions , to the reputations of dedicated civil servants, or to the hearts of grieving family members who they’ve been attentive to only to the extent that they can be used.

They yammer about problems with government, when they’ve become one of the single biggest problem themselves.

Skookum

Your father suffered what my father did not: war injuries.

Although he was sunk on the Wasp in ’42 and took AAA hits, some nearly fatal, he pulled through. This is not true for his squadron CO, Bob Isely whom he saw shot down at Aslito Airfield in Saipan, with all three crewmen killed.
Like your father, he stayed in the service and continued to fly, ending his career at PMR Pt. Mugu. At his death, going through his papers, I found numerous certificates from various USN training courses in drones and missiles. Here he was on the cutting edge of research and he never said a word about it.

I pray your father has a long and healthy life. When he goes, I can assure you, there is nothing that ever replaces such a man.

@Greg: I believe that Clinton lost his license to practice law because he lied. So the republicans were found to be right! How is that a misuse of the law?

@Skookum: He isn’t planning on running the 10 Miler is he? I just returned from an American Legion Conference. The stories these men tell make the rest of us look like we were home knitting scarfs. Give him my thanks!

@Greg: If the presidency is innocent, why does he continue to hid evidence of that? Why does he continue to lie and have others lie for him? Maybe it is long past time that you Greg start asking the questions the press has not asked! Don’t you ever think there are too many convenient coincidences? If not, you must have the mind of a toad.

Greg #24:

Buddy, politics stink. It is a game for the players, and they accept few limits in their quest for victory. Each side is guilty of its share of mischief, and this scandal is a case in point. The operative rule isn’t “be an angel,” it’s “don’t get caught.” Allowing the accused to claim their “fifth amendment rights” simply gives the guilty a sporting chance.

Today isn’t like it was back when Rosemary’s tape lost, what, 15 minutes of Nixon’s recorded oval office conversations. I always wondered why that tape wasn’t just thrown into the fire.

The trail of IRS emails probably COULD be retrieved, so one wonders why they haven’t been retrieved already. I am reluctant to credit this administration with the sophisticated thoroughness that would be necessary to eliminate the trail entirely, but either they have that skill, or the Republicans lack the skill to otherwise retrieve what must surely still exist. Like the 5th amendment’s sporting chance, this game will be won by the side with the greater talent, not by who is right.

@MAKAYA: Thank you for the kind words. It has been a tremendous learning experience. My father in law’s eyes must still be sharp, since he has me play film footage of WWII and he recognizes old acquaintances and friends, while telling me about the advantages of P38’s and Corsairs and Zeros. I’ve learned more about planes than I ever knew. He is intrigued with the Doolittle Raid and knew all the survivors as well as many of the pilots of the war.

Yesterday, we spent hours on the Yamamoto ambush, I was reading from the computer and he was filling in technical details of the planes involved: P38, Zero, and Bettys. It is like an illustrated history class. I am truly blessed to be involved in this great history lesson.

Feel free to ask Curt for my email address, I would like to ask him if he knew your father and could provide you with any insight into your father’s experiences. There are not too many more opportunities like this.

@Greg: “It’s individuals who have availed themselves of 5th Amendment protection, not Obama or the Obama administration. Why should such a person willingly cooperate with their lynch mob? ”

You do understand a little bit about “self-incrimination”, right? Exactly what is Lerner protecting herself from self-incrimination? For someone that is quick to make false accusations and express suspicions about previous administration’s motives and actions, you sure have a hard time seeing suspicion when it is actually justified.

Or, maybe it would appear differently to you if YOU had been targeted. No doubt, it would and, as long as the opposition is having their Constitutional rights raped, you and the rest of the left think that’s just how the game is played.

That’s pretty disgusting.

@Bill #31:

“Exactly what is Lerner protecting herself from self-incrimination?”
Good question, of course. And one that is reasonably asked EVERY time someone “takes the fifth.”
But that doesn’t diminish one’s right to evoke that privileged silence.

“you and the rest of the left think that’s just how the game is played.
That’s pretty disgusting.”

I would venture a guess that the VAST majority of career politicians view their jobs as games on some level. Remember that games teach children about how the adult world works, and once we reach adulthood, the skills we learned as children are applied to adult life.

Disgusting?
No.
Realistic.

@George Wells: Ah, OK… it’s all just a game; the targeting, the harassment, the sharing of private, personal information to political operatives. This makes violation of one’s privacy and rights OK… it just depends who has the goal post shoved up their ass, right?

@Bill:
You don’t need to resort to potty talk to make your point, do you?

Look at the game analogy again. The goal is to damage the opponent WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT. There are “rules” against all of those offensive things you allude to, and those rules apply equally to the players on both “teams.” The rules stipulate that the offenses you mention are NOT “OK.” If you get caught breaking the “rules,” you (should) get punished.

Both sides do this. (Watergate) And like other crime statistics, there are probably ten undiscovered instances for every discovered one. Sure it’s “wrong,” but there is no escaping the fact that this game is a big, ugly part of politics. It just isn’t a perfect world.

Internationally, we play “games” the same way. WE spy on our allies and our enemies alike, and we lie to them all constantly. When we get caught in the act, we are embarrassed. We make a big fuss over Snowden, because he exposed some of that, which is evidently a treasonous offense. But where is the outrage over the mischief he reported in the first place? It’s virtually nonexistent, because everyone knows that this is how the game is played. A player and/or his team gets penalized for getting caught, not for doing something wrong.

My father was a colonel in the Army, and a Republican. When I was young, he made an impressive lesson of the importance of staying out of trouble. By the time I was in my late teens, it occurred to him that I wasn’t getting into ANY trouble, and he got worried about it. So he took me aside one day and explained that the important thing wasn’t avoiding mischief, it was not getting caught. That was my indoctrination into game theory. Apparently, I was just about the last person to get the message. Maybe you were the last.

@George Wells: “You don’t need to resort to potty talk to make your point, do you?”

Apparently I do, because some people simply cannot see the harm. Watergate, for instance, was the two “teams”, if you will, going after each other. Nixon got caught (he had nothing to do with the break in, but was done in by the cover-up… something I am surprised Obama had not noticed) and was attacked, not just by the Democrats, but by Republicans as well, many worried about the damage to the brand that was being caused.

In the IRS scandal, we have Democrats shooting at Republicans but hitting innocent bystanders. We have collateral damage in this fight, with innocent, law-abiding citizens, doing nothing but trying to exercise their right of free speech, getting harassed, investigated and audited. Nixon thought he was addressing a national security issue (by trying to dismantle the anti-war left). Obama, via the IRS (as the evidence is indicating) is doing nothing but trying to silence political opposition to policies.

Nixon attacked the players, Obama is attacking the spectators for cheering for the “wrong” team.

But, my point is that this would be a much more poignant issue to the left if the left were the ones at the receiving end of the attention. A limited few Democrats have displayed true outrage over the violation of the public trust. Of course Republicans are mad; they’re the one’s being attacked. But anyone should be able to see that if this is acceptable practice (like a President ignoring the rule of law and ruling on ideological grounds rather than following the Constitution) “what goes around, comes around” could prove to be not only painful but overall destructive to the nation.

Yeah, it’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye… or a Constitution. This ain’t a game.

We need another committee on Communist Activities and Subversive elements of Islamic Jihad infiltrating the U.S. Government…yeah that wouldn’t last a day, but financial investigations and limiting speech on limited government groups is just fine.

@Bill #35:
“This ain’t a game.”
Of course it is. It’s either a game, or it’s a war.
This is game rhetoric: “like a President ignoring the rule of law and ruling on ideological grounds rather than following the Constitution”.
This is war rhetoric: “Look over there, is that a pretty bird? (BANG, you’re dead.)”

Democrats think that Republicans will be the ruin of this country, and Republicans hold the reverse opinion. I’m beginning to believe that the best way to deal with an issue is to get it as far away from a politician as possible. No offense to your side intended – mine is just as bad.

@George Wells: While the parties fight it out, it can be deemed a game, though it does have implications upon the population (such as the left playing games with immigration reform in order to keep it a contentious topic that buys them votes). However, the might of the federal government going after citizens doing nothing but their civic duty is no game. It is tyranny. It is banana republic. It is Alinsky. It is un-Constitutional.

But, as you like it; Hillary is no shoe in and beyond her, what else do you have? If and when the Republicans hold the reins of power again, let’s just see how much fun it is for the vanquished. We do like us some games, right?

@Bill #38:

Bill, it is what it is. Collectively, we get what we deserve, exactly as the Iraqis get what THEY deserve. We have always been and continue to be a divided nation, and there is a very real danger associated with this great division. We’ve had a civil war once, and we are not ideologically so very far from having another.

Unlike the monstrously large documents that congress creates, the Constitution and its amendments consist of but a modest few pages of seemingly unambiguous text describing our form of government and the liberties it guarantees. Yet we cannot even agree on what this sparing document means. What hope have we?

We live in a world of increasing extremism, and our two political parties here at home mirror this trend by polarizing their positions toward their respective extremes. It does not bode well for our future. Neither of our parties will serve our nation well by “digging in their heals” on ideological principle, I don’t give a damn which side is “right.” The “good fight” will be our final undoing. I’m just glad that I’ll be dead and gone by then, so if you are right and your Republicans get revengeful when they get back in power – and they will get back in power, I hope – well, what happens will be on their tab. I imagine the job they do won’t be any better that it was the last time they held the reins. But good luck. I really hope that it all works out for you.

@George Wells: that’s a load.

@Bill, #31:

You do understand a little bit about “self-incrimination”, right? Exactly what is Lerner protecting herself from self-incrimination? For someone that is quick to make false accusations and express suspicions about previous administration’s motives and actions, you sure have a hard time seeing suspicion when it is actually justified.

She may be protecting herself from the GOP’s scandal mongering methodology. They’d readily destroy anyone’s reputation in their efforts to damage that of the Obama administration.

It’s a fundamental Constitutional right that no one can be made to testify against themselves. As an American citizen, a person is not required to assist public officials in their own prosecution or persecution. She doesn’t have to explain what she does not wish to divulge or why she doesn’t wish to divulge it, and the fact that she won’t isn’t evidence of anything. That’s the way the 5th Amendment works. That’s the way it was intended to work.

@Greg: “She may be protecting herself from the GOP’s scandal mongering methodology.” If she were wrongly convicted of anything, don’t you think Obama would quickly use that pen of his and grant her a well-deserved pardon? No, Greg, sorry….. all she has to fear is what laws she has broken and not doing everything she possibly can to cover the stinking, muddy tracks leading to the White House.

See, to NOT incriminate one’s self, there has to be something incriminating there. Lerner is not remaining silent to keep the Republicans from having false information to use against her because, if that was the case, they would have their own supply of false information. She is keeping silent to keep from joining Vince Foster at the worm farm.

Remember: cover ups are always covering something up.

@Bill, #42:

See, to NOT incriminate one’s self, there has to be something incriminating there.

The word incriminate only means to create an appearance of guilt. A person isn’t required to say anything that could make himself or herself appear to be guilty. Declining to do that is not the same thing as withholding evidence. It doesn’t imply that something is being covered up.

@Greg: Aw, Greg.. that is an excellent try. Your masters should be proud of at least your dogged commitment to disguising the truth. But, alas, this too flops.

One does not go to jail or face fines on appearances. One goes to jail for crimes, or in this case, being incriminatedin wrong doing (note that “crime” is the root of the word). Lerner is waiting for immunity so she can confess this was all her idea and she was the brains of the outfit.

Again, for someone with such a suspicious mind, even when having no foundation to base those suspicions, you give Mr. Obama a complete and total pass even when there are incriminating factorsall around. In other words, you suffer from abject hypocrisy.

@Bill, #44:

One does not go to jail or face fines on appearances.

No, but public opinion can be swayed by appearances, and that’s precisely what the GOP is attempting to do. That’s what their whole three-ring dog and pony show is actually about. The one fact that remains, after all their years of wasted time and wasted taxpayer dollars, is that they have produced no actual evidence of either a crime or criminal intent on the part of anyone, in connection with anything.

They’re worse than useless. They themselves are abusing the investigative powers of Congress for political purposed. They’re misusing their powers on an ongoing basis. They’ve become corrosive to the very democracy and governmental institutions they’re supposed to protect. The only place this doesn’t seem to be recognized is on the political right.

Skookum: I would very much like to communicate with you on this. I do not know, however, how to address Curt directly (I used to program IBM 360 series, now I can’t set a digital watch).

If you or anyone can help, or you, Curt, if you’re reading this, please advise.

Watches ARE hard! I have a couple that I can’t figure out how to work 🙂

And then some days I can’t get my own name correct….

@Greg: “No, but public opinion can be swayed by appearances, and that’s precisely what the GOP is attempting to do.” What the hell difference does THAT make? Is she going to run for office (if so, Democrats would love her; she’s a rights-violating liar)?

What she is actually guilty of could be somewhat less than how it appears; she would do herself a service by being honest and truthful instead of lying. This is an embarrassment of their own making. No one told them to target and attack conservative groups.

@Bill, #49:

“No, but public opinion can be swayed by appearances, and that’s precisely what the GOP is attempting to do.”

What the hell difference does THAT make?

It makes the only difference, when you haven’t proved SQUAT with evidence. They seem to think that raising the level of their hysteria will compensate for that minor detail. Or maybe that if they connect dots and make allegations furiously enough, they’ll turn into something solid.

FOX News is shilling for them full tilt. I’ve been wondering when Megyn Kelly would show up wearing cheerleader gear. Of course, they’re understandably worried. If they don’t produce something solid by the midterms, they could be in trouble.