Minimum Wage Chickenhawks, Part II (Guest Post)

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Our president and his lefty pals are at it again. Now that Obamacare’s failure is all but an historical fact, the president has done exactly what you’d expect him to do – take a laserlike focus on his signature law and dedicate every available resource and use every ounce of political capital he has to humbly seek the help of Republicans to make his law work.

HAHAHAHA! I’m kidding – I slay me sometimes! (Thank you, thank you.I’ll be here all week, and tip your bartenders!) No, of course the president has returned to his happy place and reverted to his one true skill – campaigning. And what’s been the gist of his campaigning? Resentment and envy of course – the basic foundations of the leftist ideology! In this case President Obama wants the American people to look away from their spiking health insurance costs that came from his inability to lead and instead focus on his economic illiteracy.

So the President’s best and brightest handlers have decided that calling for class warfare via an increased minimum wage is the way to distract the public from his latest failure and encourage them to be angry at someone else. If you’re reading this you’re probably intelligent enough to see the flaws in the president’s logic. If you’re not click over to Ace of Spades to learn why you’re wrong.

Naturally, in keeping in lockstep with Dear Leader, our press diligently covered the Thanksgiving union astroturfed anti-Wal Mart protests, and support for the president’s call for a higher minimum wage. But then Vice.com’s Charles Davis decided to throw some cold water on the party by looking at how a number of left wing publications that call for “Economic Justice” treat their own interns:

In 2011, Democracy Now! asked its $15-a-day employees to work the program’s 15th anniversary gala, a major fundraiser. Interns were asked to “greet and thank guests, check their coats, make sure the event goes smoothly, and help clean up,” according to an email obtained by VICE. “We will provide you with a delicious pizza dinner, but ask that you refrain from eating the catered dinner at the event.”

Yes, that’s how the leftist aristocracy treats its own peasants when it’s their own money signing the paychecks. The article further broke down the rates of pay for a few of them:

The American Prospect; $2.50 / hr
Mother Jones $under $6/hr.
The New Republic $0
Democracy Now! $15/day

At the end of the article it was noted that The Nation recently responded to demands from its interns to pay them minimum wage. Of course, that’s not exactly a “living wage” for someone living in New York City, but it’s a start. And it hasn’t kept me from occasionally trolling their posts demanding increased minimum wage/anti-Wal Mart campaigning, etc. calling on them to start paying interns a living wage. Feel free to join in! #OccupyKatrinasOffice

And of course, there is President Obama’s nonprofit of Organizing for America that shows how it values its interns by offering to pay them… nothing! Doug Powers had a great takedown of OFA:

“Moral of the story: It’s cruel that people are being paid $9 and hour to help Walmart sell things like TVs and bed sheets, but OFA is “giving something back to the community” for paying people nothing to help Team Obama peddle things like “Recovery Summer” and “if you like your plan you can keep it.”

Heck, the left even has a certain disdain for charity, as Robert Reich went on recently about the greed of giving. So how do all of these things tie together? I’ve written before how almost all lefties calling for raising the minimum wage are just “Minimum Wage Chicken Hawks”, and when it comes to caring and compassion nobody can match the left’s generosity with other people’s money. Calling for higher taxes is a favorite leftist refrain, although they will naturally avoid paying those higher taxes themselves.

Leftists call for higher wages, and taxes, etc. but they’re never the ones volunteering to pay those taxes, buy a McDonald’s franchise and pay $15 per hour, or reach out and lend a hand. Somehow support for Obamacare equates compassion, based only on the results that every leftist wishes it could produce. The mess that it’s been so far, the ever increasing cost, and the lack of any measurable objective to mark success or failure is completely lost on any leftist. It’s a damned shame that the left didn’t put as much energy into thinking through Obamacare as they did into forcing it onto us and later demanding that the same people they’ve been demonizing come in and clean up their mess. Again, the personal effort in physically helping is best shunted onto somebody else.

Here’s one more example of a “charitable” leftist Transgender who volunteered as a bell ringer for the Salvation Army. To make a long story short, she used some flawed reasoning to decide that she doesn’t like the SA, and now gives to other charities,

Instead, I contribute to other nonprofit organizations, not least of which is Glaad, the gay-rights advocacy group on whose board of directors I serve.

In other words, she now generously gives to herself!

So the next time a lefty shows their righteousness in support for raising the minimum wage, support for Obamacare, boycotting Wal-Mart, etc. as proof that they are more compssionate than you, ask them what they’ve personally done to help those people in need. Most likely, the response will be a refreshing silence.

As I was getting ready to publish this I found a great quote from a Tumble account named “KA-CHING”: (H/T Ace):

In 2012 the CEO of Walmart made $20.7 million. Walmart has about 2 million employees (as far as I can tell, this is only counting the employees in the American stores). So, if you divided the CEO’s entire pay among the employees they’d each get $10.35 more per year- that’s not quite 20 cents per week; a half a cent per hour for full time employees. Woohoo.

Now, look at a paystub and see how much the various governments” steal from every paycheck, and then tell me who the real parasite is.

To close out on a lighter note:

Follow Brother Bob on Twitter @brother_bob

Cross posted from Brother Bob’s Blog

Blogging by the credo of "Making the world a more offensive place, one blog post at a time", Brother Bob started writing posts around the beginning of the Obama presidency over at Brother Bob's Blog. A born-again Existentialist and self-professed libertarian with conservative tendencies, he has ironically chosen to live in the Washington, DC area - deep behind enemy lines. He has always loved history, and spent eight years volunteering as a tour guide on weekends, giving over 200 tours to roughly 2,500 mostly foreign guests. His tours were highlighted by stories generally not found in the history books or most other tours, such as the importance of the Battle if Antietam, the origins or Arlington Cemetery, and dispelling the myths of FDR's New Deal. Although his favorite subject to blog about is Economics, as seen in his Economics for Politicians series, his posts try to address angles that other conservative writers and the mainstream media (naturally!) miss. "There's no point in putting up a post on a subject that someone smarter than me has already written". He believes in the "Happy Warrior" approach, and tries to inject humor in his posts, sometimes successfully. Two such examples are his posts comparing the modern left to the horrible Star Wars prequels, and analyzing the laments of a DC woman in search of a feminist boyfriend. Brother Bob lives with his very patient wife known as Sister Babe, and their fantastic son. Little Bob. Little Bob is also the reason that being a tour guide came to an end, as spending Saturdays raising a son takes priority over giving lectures to foreign visitors on the folly of Keynesian economics. BB is also grateful for the opportunity to take his place among the outstanding writers at Flopping Aces, appreciates every person who takes the time to read his posts, and especially those who join him in the conversation in the comments.

35 Responses to “Minimum Wage Chickenhawks, Part II (Guest Post)”

  1. 1

    Nanny G

    Minimum wage chickenhawks.
    I like it as a perfectly descriptive term for what we are seeing.
    Astro-turf demonstrations where non-employees pretend to work ar fast-food joints.
    Unpaid useful idiots* who probably look like pajama boy in their off hours…..oh, wait!, they are unpaid, so they are always off!

    Obama blew his dog whistle on the economic inequality note and his minions answered.
    So, what was the fallout?
    Jobless claims climbed by 10,000 to 379,000 in the period ended Dec. 14, the most since the end of March, Labor Department data showed today in Washington. The median forecast of 48 economists surveyed by Bloomberg called for a decrease to 336,000.
    The unemployment rate among people eligible for benefits increased to 2.2 percent in the week of Dec. 7 from 2.1 percent the prior period.
    According to the BLS only 65.5 of Americans with jobs had full-time work during 2011.
    U6 which equals the U5 plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force12.7 percent for November 2013, down from 13.2 percent in October, 13.1 percent in September.
    With the inclusion of long-term discouraged workers, the SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate, which might be considered a “U7″ rate, exceeds 23 percent.
    The Obama DOL jiggers the numbers by counting as employed all people who are unemployed but who putter around their own house!
    Also by omitting all those who are ”discouraged workers,” no longer collecting unemployment insurance.
    Lastly be counting a person as ”employed” even when they accept a job that pays a miniscule portion of their previous wage.

    *In political jargon, useful idiot is a term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they are not fully aware of, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause. These unpaid dolts are useful idiots because unions are using them. The idiots don’t realize all union pay scales ride up from the minimum wage. Therefore all their work, should it succeed, would serve to give union leaders their win. The leaders would take the credit and the useful idiots, like Cindy Sheehan, will be kicked to the curb.

  2. 2

    oil guy from Alberta

    My HR gal in Minot,ND. has been told to give preference to veterans who want to work as roughnecks in your booming oil patch. It must be some sort of discrimination. The minimum wage for this is about 75GRRR per annum. Develop your resources, including coal, -watch this x20 job multiplier take effect and enjoy the lefties ramping up their anit-capitalism.

  3. 3

    Ditto

    Wages havenot kept up with inflation, but Obama could give Americans much needed relief immediately if he would only take down all his excessive, punishing, energy regulations that have badly impacted the cost of living, the economy and American’s pocket books. His mean spirited energy regulations have hurt the lower and middle classes.

  4. 4

    Warren Beatty (not the liberal actor)

    In February, 2013, Obama said, “Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong.” Now, his handlers are having him “… calling for class warfare via an increased minimum wage …[.]” Well, an article on tax relief available to minimum wage earners references a recent CBO report. The report, when studied, has the minimum wage (when the negative tax and other Government transfers are considered) at $18.83/hr. But Obama nor his handlers nor the MSM will ever mention what is REALLY going on.

  5. 5

    Brother Bob

    author

    @Nan G: Excellent points – damned shame our press won’t point that out

    @Oil Guy & Ditto: Amen. A great question I saw somewhere to throw out to leftists is “How come buying local is a great idea with everything except energy?”

    @Warren Beatty: Another great point that even I hadn’t heard before. That might warrant a separate post of its own – flip you for it? =8^)

  6. 6

    mossomo

    Converse of a wage increase that focuses on business, is a tax decrease that focuses on gov’t.

    They both increase a workers take home pay.

    Our gov’t has a prejudice against business.

  7. 7

    Ronald J. Ward

    Today’s conservative’ s wouldn’t make very good chess players. Go ahead and fight tooth and nail to exploit the workers and coddle the donor class. It just makes a Hillary/Warren ticket sound sweeter all the time.

  8. 9

    mossomo

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    Fight tooth and nail to exploit workers. How so?

    Income equality? It’s worse under Obama by the way. Wealth isn’t pie, it’s created; having not been created, it doesn’t exist. I’ve never got rich when a millionaire went bankrupt nor lost money when they got rich.

    I do however by right of being born an American am forced into transfers, and it’s those transfers that fund political graft, crony capitalism, and bailouts for failed business models.

    Want to give workers more money, decrease their taxes. Stop disincentivizing enterprise.

    What about the cradle to grave multi-generational entitlement society we have in our inner cities, is that culture not exploitative?

    I can say we as a tax base are exploited.

    How many gov’t bureaucratic jobs are created by the real men and women who actually create something that is exchangeable. We as a Nation didn’t have an income tax for over 150years and we did just fine. Even without the Department of Education, we put men on the moon. Pensions were deemed unsustainable in the private sector during the 80’s. It’s us, we the exploited tax base, that pay for gov’t largess – and failures. Businesses go out of business, but govt with a bad business plan and they just take the loss from us via taxation.

    We lost equal opportunity for equality of outcome.

  9. 11

    mossomo

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    “Today’s conservative”

    You use it like a pejorative. Conservative doesn’t mean religious conservative.

    There’s nothing wrong in believing in the Constitution, limited gov’t, and limited taxation.

  10. 12

    Ronald J. Ward

    Bro Bob @ #10, I’m not sure how you draw that conclusion. I’m just thinking back and seems to me that Carter, Clinton, and Obama were all elected based on the abject failures of their predecessors, or that their opponents couldn’t distance themselves from the policies of those predecessors.

    Mossomo @ # 9, I don’t see any logic in engaging in your worn out and repeatedly debunked talking points. You’re confused about the term “exploited workers”? Okay. And there was a minimum wage when we put man on the moon which was much more directly proportional with the cost of living at that time. You think $7.25 an hour is plenty fair? Cool for you but I don’t and I don’t think the electorate does either, which is my point. You want to blame Obama for the low wage? That’s just utter nonsense as every aspect of this situation is a result of conservatives policies or insistence of maintaining those policies.

    Realistically, ten bucks an hour is nothing. Chump change. And any business that’s made profits have historically bumped up wages along the way. It’s been studied, tried, and proven that minimum wage increases have not hurt employment. McDonalds and Walmart could easily raise it to $15 an hour and still enjoy the same profits. This has all been argued. And for those smaller folks, if they can’t pay their employees a living wage, get the hell out of the way as America has a long history of entrepreneurs that can make it happen. I’m sick and tired of my tax dollars paying for food for full time workers because the employers simply want to keep all the profits.

    Ditto @ # 8, you may actually have a point that I’m “confusing “conservatives” with status quo “establishment” Republicans”. To be honest, I think conservatives or Republicans or whatever they are today pretty much lost their identity long ago. I’m not much of a bagger fan because I believe the tea party was ushered in by highly influential right wing extremists, bankrolled by corporate billionaires, and constant free supportive airtime from Fox News at an opportune time to exploit the hatred of a newly elected black president.

    But all that leads us back to my original comment. If the conservatives or republicans or baggers or whatever the hell they are today were better chess players, they’d throw the workers a measly few coins while their selling their snake oil. Unless they wise up and do that (which they’d obviously take credit for), it’s going to be hard to win the White House in 2016. Who are you going to run, another arrogant Plutocrat like Romney or some charity dishwasher like Ryan?

    Update for Mossomo, I say “today’s conservative” as I explained to Ditto. I have no clue who they are. They’re certainly not Eisenhower conservatives. Hell, Ike would be run out of town today as a left liberal socialist from hell. And I doubt that Reagan would hold up much better.

  11. 13

    Brother Bob

    author

    @RJR: If you’re serious about raising the minimum wage buy a taco stand and pay your workers $15 an hour. Or do you regularly tip the cashier at McDonald’s $20? How much extra do you give to the greeter at Wal Mart?
    Lefties are incredibly generous with other people’s money, not so much with their own.

  12. 14

    Nanny G

    ThinkProgress, no Right or even Center organization, admits this: Blacks and Latinos earn higher pay from Republican campaigns compared to Democratic campaigns.
    Breaking it down:
    DEMOCRAT:
    Black employees make $795 per paycheck.
    Latinos earn $775.
    Whites, on the other hand, make $1,145.
    REPUBLICAN:
    Black employees earn $1,317.
    Latinos make $1,356.
    Whites earned $1,510.

    OFA (Organizing for Action which used to be Organizing for Obama, see the Obama logo on the page) once had this banner: “No one who works full time in America should have to live in poverty.”
    To work there, consider if you qualify:

    The ideal candidate is a highly motivated individual with a strong desire to learn and a deep commitment to OFA’s mission. Requirements of the candidate include:

    Excellent interpersonal and written communication skills
    Strong desire to learn and work in the field of public service, grassroots organizing, and political engagement
    Strong project management skills
    Detail oriented, thinking critically and creatively
    Ability to work efficiently and effectively in a fast-paced environment

    Strong commitment to changing the world

    BUT…..this describes UNPAID jobs!
    Liberals ought to look to their own leadership before they start throwing stones.

  13. 15

    mossomo

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    “Mossomo @ # 9, I don’t see any logic in engaging in your worn out and repeatedly debunked talking points.”

    1st – it’s almost like you think you know me, have we met? Repeatedly debunked? Wtf. LoL. Sure, sir.
    2nd – Muhahahahaha. Your venom. I’m doing something right.

    today’s conservative, I have no clue [what they’re about]

    You have no clue?

    This is easy. Limited gov’t and limited taxes.


    “You think $7.25 an hour is plenty fair?”

    Define fair?

    Do you think greater than 40% of American citizens don’t pay income tax is fair? Do you think you are so smart as to ascertain the value of labor?

    “Directly proportional with the cost of living”

    School me. Does the cost of living go up as taxes increase?

    “You want to blame Obama for the low wage?”

    Huh? What? That’s some misdirection.

    “That’s just utter nonsense as every aspect of this situation is a result of conservatives policies.”

    I see now. That’s your straw man.

    “Realistically, ten bucks an hour is nothing.”

    Realistically – hiking the minimum to $100/hour won’t help your central planning.

    “It’s been studied, tried, and proven that minimum wage increases have not hurt employment.”

    You’re something and common sense escapes you.

    If I grow apples – I can sweep, rack, and pick apples all day long, I don’t need another worker, I can do it myself. But it’s nice to hire someone to do some of that work. And central planners can’t put a price on that labor.

    Do you know you are blind to your own prejudice? The people most affected by minimum wage are those with no job skills. How do you build your skillset when you aren’t worth your wage?

    Charity. Grants. Gov’t.

    “McDonalds and Walmart could easily raise it to $15 an hour and still enjoy the same profits.”

    ‘Enjoy the same profits’ doesn’t mean what you think it means. How can they enjoy same profits?

    By Raising Prices.

    “I’m sick and tired of my tax dollars paying for food for full time workers because the employers simply want to keep all the profits.”

    This has all been argued before.

    By:
    – Castro
    – Mao
    – Lenin
    – Stalin
    – Mugabe
    – Chavez

    You make a strong point Mr. Ward.

    “And for those smaller folks, if they can’t pay their employees a fair wage…”

    History has shown if you can’t afford labor, potential labor STARVES.

  14. 16

    Ronald J. Ward

    Mossomo, I doubt that we’ve met but your debunked talking points and argumentative tactics of copy, paste, and dribble are all too familiar.

    Bro Bob, your implication that I pushed for $15 an hour is the expected typical spin. Only taco workers? Perhaps you need to revisit statistics and reality. You might start with the banking industry and ahat they’re paying.

    I should tip WalMart workers? You either missed my point or intentionally spun it. I think WalMart, McDonalds, Banks, motel chains, etc, who all by the way are doing quite well, should pay their own employees and not expect me to pick up that tab.

    Either your argument has legs or it doesn’t. Cowardly and manipulative spin games doesn’t give credence to them. But as in most cases of today’s conservatives, that’s all they have.

  15. 17

    tomw

    Stolen from somewhere on the internet{likely pjmedia/richardfernandez} comments:

    I saw a magnificent cartoon on “what socialism is”, that I have acted out at a meal table to stunning effect. To do this, you need to be at a table with at least three people, where you are arguing with one who is a strong lefty (person #2).

    So you make your points, then say, “Look, you want to see, really see, why we conservatives have such an issue with what you are saying?”

    Then (make VERY sure you have a CLEAN spoon or fork), turn to person #3 and ask them to tell you they are hungry. OK, person #3 does this….

    Then say, “Oh you poor poor person, you…”, and pick up your spoon, lean over to person #2’s plate, and start removing food from it to give to person three.

    Person #2, your opponent, will react with immediate outrage, because it really is verboten to be futzing with someone else’s food on their plate. But this is EXACTLY what they have been advocating for years. It’s just always been someone else’s else’s plate. And that’s just fine. Never theirs. Never.

    Hence this posting today. All of a sudden, possibly for the first time, it IS their plate. And they react predictably – with shock, horror, indignation, outrage. Duh. No shirtsleeves Sherlock.

    Try this on someone, and they damn sure will never forget it.

    ***

    The government has no business setting a minimum wage for any business at all. People should earn what they are worth, otherwise they are charity. Any time the government forces businesses to increase their cost, either their profit decreases or their prices increase. Artificially increasing minimum wages has induced the creation of a lot of machines to do low-level work formerly done by those learning job skills and experience. Those jobs have been destroyed at the whim of the government requiring cost increases to the business. The costs made it more profitable{ooooohh mean profit! nasty nasty} to design, build and use machines. Humans lost jobs.
    When I was a teen, I ran a gas station, by myself, from 6PM to midnight, when I closed. I was earning $.75/hr. Not a dollar, 3/4 of a dollar. That was below the then-current minimum wage, but more than double what I earned busing dishes at a cafeteria. {Never once got a tip}
    I did the job well enough that I asked for and got almost 100% increase, to $1.25/hr. I had shown initiative, skill, perseverance, reliability and willingness to learn.{At that point in time, I thought earning $5/hr would be heaven…}
    You do not get any of those experiences if you don’t have a job. The higher the cost of labor{electricity, water, wheat, corn, EVERY thing} the less will be used, or the higher the retail price. Labor is just one component of the cost of goods sold. If you doubt that, take an accounting class and learn something before spouting that there’s no effect of increasing minimum wages.
    tom

  16. 18

    Ditto

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    I’m not much of a bagger fan because I believe the tea party was ushered in by highly influential right wing extremists, bankrolled by corporate billionaires, and constant free supportive airtime from Fox News at an opportune time to exploit the hatred of a newly elected black president.

    Then you also don’t know anything about the TEA Party movement. The TEA Party groups are definitely not centrally organized, and are almost all local groups of citizens who are fed up with both Republican and Democrat Washington establishment, which makes them as grassroots as they come. Unlike Democrat astroturf groups, they don’t bus in rank and file protesters from out of state. No TEA Party group is funded by corporate billionaires, although some of their candidates have been and so what of it? If that were a matter for disdain then most political candidates are as guilty. FOX news never supported the TEA Party groups, it only reported on them and that the movement was undeserving of the false attacks from far-left loons like you. The on-air talent at FOX, (with the exception of Sean Hannity and correspondent Sarah Palin,) tend to be neutral at best towards the TEA Party, and many such as Bill O’reilly, Shepard Smith, and Carl Rove are openly hostile and dismissive towards them.

    If the conservatives or republicans or baggers or whatever the hell they are today were better chess players, they’d throw the workers a measly few coins while their selling their snake oil.

    All you are showing yourself to be is an ignorant ass who knows nothing about your political opposition. That’s not surprising, as you have swallowed the far-left mantra hook line and sinker. Learn the differences in the various factions of your opposition and the facts of where they stand on various issues and you may be able to hold an intelligent debate on the subject.

  17. 19

    Brother Bob

    author

    You’re missing my point – what have YOU done personally to help lower income workers? Why is it that these publications calling for higher wages aren’t doing it for their own? Why isn’t OFA paying its interns? Last I saw there are plenty of leftists who are doing quite well and can afford to pay their underligs they way they feel other should. The entire point of this post is that leftists are extremely compassionate and generous with other people’s money.
    And how do you plan to help the people who will remain jobless because they can’t produce enough value to be worth whatever wage you feel they should be paid? No matter how high you raise the minimum wage not having a paycheck still pays zero

  18. 20

    Ronald J. Ward

    Ditto, that was utter nonsense.

    Bob, people, regardless of their passion or concern, are by and largely going to take care of themselves in this fight for survival rat race. They may love their neighborhood grocer but yet still save money at the bigger chain while knowing he’s in trouble. We see this everyday as very few people buy “all American” made products yet have a strong concern about jobs going overseas. They just can’t or don’t feel that they can afford it. Imagine going and asking businesses 10 years ago if they could survive $3 to $4 a gallon gasoline. I’d surmise you would have gotten a resounding “hell no!!!!”. Yet they survived and adapted and are doing well, just as they would if required to pay a few coins more.

    This is why such laws are needed.

    But that really wasn’t the nature of my original argument. I’m just saying that if conservatives were a bit more strategically savvy, they would increase the mw a few minute and overdue coins rather than alienating them.

    And workers have never been as productive as they are now which throws cold water on that pay them what they’re worth theory.

  19. 21

    retire05

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    But that really wasn’t the nature of my original argument. I’m just saying that if conservatives were a bit more strategically savvy, they would increase the mw a few minute and overdue coins rather than alienating them.

    What you seem to fail to comprehend is that very wage increase will then be passed on to the consumer. It is not absorbed by the business. That makes prices go higher, which in turn, hurts the low income worker the most.

    You also fail to realize that not every one is worth a set price. How much is a worker, a high school drop out that can not even count change for a dollar, worth to McDonald’s or to any other business?

    And workers have never been as productive as they are now which throws cold water on that pay them what they’re worth theory.

    Really? You really want to compare today’s productivity to the productivity of Americans between 1942-1945? You really are full of it, aren’t you?

  20. 22

    Ronald J. Ward

    @retire05: It’s not that I fail to comprehend but rather I disagree with your talking points. Your arguments defy logic as well as history.

    But once again this isn’t the nature of my argument. I’m arguing more about election stratigies.

  21. 23

    retire05

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    It’s not that I fail to comprehend but rather I disagree with your talking points. Your arguments defy logic as well as history.

    My talking points, Mr. Liberal Blatherer? OK, so if you disagree with my premise that higher wages drive up the cost of the product/service that the wage earner produces, prove it.

    Do you ever get tired of getting your clock cleaned by the conservatives on this board? Or are you just another liberal masochist?

  22. 24

    Brother Bob

    author

    @RJW: In other words, nothing. Maybe before leftists start to righteously point fingers at the evil corporations for not paying more ask how come the richest leftists (Turner, Buffet, Gore) aren’t launching their own businesses that pay every entry level employee “A living wage”?

  23. 25

    Nanny G

    When Obama was a new president and had some popularity, he decided to impose Union Wage Levels on any jobs where even $0.01 was from the federal or state coffers.
    It was basically a huge expansion of a little-known Act that had applied only to a few gov’t jobs; the Davis-Bacon Act.
    So, what did people do when faced with a minimum of $65/hour and a 4 hour minimum to simply get their windows caulked under a federal weatherization program?
    The WORKERS went under the table on Obama.
    They pretend to collect the cash from the homeowner, but actually only collect the cash from the government!
    We had 48 condos’ attics insulated for NO COST TO US!
    The company took the ”rebates” from the gov’t as payment in full and came out ahead!
    So, going ”under-the-table,” is a common result of too much government.
    In CA there were experts claiming over 1/2 of every dollar spent there was spent to an under-the-table business!
    We’re not talking drug dealing and prostitution, either.
    Car repair, home repair, painting, housecleaning, fresh produce, home-made tamales and sno cones, etc.

  24. 26

    mossomo

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    “Mossomo, I doubt that we’ve met”

    Oh we have. You’re cliche. A paper mache clone of the many I met who marched before you. Logic is not your forte. Misdirection, logic fallacies, plausible deniability, stereotypes – ftw!

    “debunked talking points”

    Care to debunk them?

    “and argumentative tactics of copy, paste, and dribble are all too familiar.”

    Because I clown you with your own words. All too familiar, I wonder why?

    3min of research and I can say definitely it’s happened before.

    Dishonest as usual, Ronald. Here is the statement that Mitt Romney was referring to…

    As usual, Ronald, who counter with half-truths, half-lies and plenty of omissions…

  25. 27

    mossomo

    You argue one way but reality differs.

    “I think WalMart, McDonalds, Banks, motel chains, etc, who all by the way are doing quite well,

    Define doing quite well?

    Wal-Mart Stores Inc on Thursday forecast a disappointing profit for the holiday season after reporting its third straight quarterly decline in U.S. comparable sales because of fewer shopper visits.

    McDonald’s November Sales Decline In The United States
    Huffingtonpost: McDonald’s Dollar Menu Fails To Boost Sales

    – Hawaiihotel occupancy declines, rates rise more than 10%

    – Risk Is Back: America’s Big Banks Are Knee-Deep In Derivatives
    – FDIC Says U.S. Banking Industry Continues Slow Rebound

  26. 28

    mossomo

    “should pay their own employees and not expect me to pick up that tab.”

    Expect me to pick up the tab.

    The size of federal gov’t has doubled since 2000 (and we are nowhere near better today than 2000.) Who picks up that tab of increased bureaucracy and their increasing largess?

    Your religion predicates a bias. On one hand, you believe employers who don’t accord to your central planning are bad and evil. But on the other hand, a tax base paying the hay for a herd of bureaucratic cattle and you are totally on-board with it.

    I’ll eat crow if you have previous posts bitching about paying for the size of gov’t. But like I said before, we have met.

    Castles Made of Sand

  27. 29

    Ronald J. Ward

    Mossomo, this is likely to be my last response (well, last “known” response) to you as your objective seems to be more to contrarily distract from the argument rather than constructively engage.

    Your # 15 diatribe for example is no more than a copy and paste rubber/glue game of distracting gibberish. Your response to my statement that MW increases have not hurt employment was “You’re something and common sense escapes you”. Your rebuttal to my statement that $10 an hour was meager pay was the ole “what about $100 an hour” nonsense. Your response to my question if $7.25 was a fair wage was that I needed to define fair. And to my argument that I’m forced to subsidize full time employees of billionaires, for my tax dollars to feed or house or clothe or educate or provide needed medical services to the children of those families because said billionaires choose not to pay a living wage to those families, you invoke Castro, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Mugabe, and Chavez. You then spin this into some silliness about “poor ole mistreated WalMart and McDonalds” and Motel chains, and Wall Street barely eking buy and can’t afford to pay any more.

    How does one argue to such abject spin and manipulative “heads you win tails I lose” nonsense. But at least you’re in good company as Retire05 prides himself on his gifted ability of calling one stupid which magically makes him the argumentative victor, or something.

    Even Brother Bob has to take the argument down a different road by pointing at liberals who pay lower wages. It’s just another rodeo clown maneuver (the rodeo clown distracts the bull so the thrown rider can duck under the fence to safety) of “but look over their” in order to distract from the reality of the pay inequality that’s detrimental to the economy.

    In other words, like most of the snake oil selling points of the corporate kowtowing loyalist (Tea Party koolaid induced patriots), you really have no argument and have to rely on dishonesty and spin. It’s kinda like Romney’s math or Ryan’s dish washing shenanigans (or indeed, Ryan’s budget which reeks of Social Darwinism and Plutocracy). But as we saw in Nov, people of reasonable intellect are no longer buying it nor will they buy it in future elections. And that was the point of my original argument.

  28. 30

    Ronald J. Ward

    “Mossomo, I doubt that we’ve met”

    Oh we have.

    This is further justification to end trying to rationalize with you as from your own admission, you stalk and troll under different names. Aside from the indications that your days must be indeed long and lonely where you live, I certainly wish you the best.

  29. 31

    Brother Bob

    author

    Again the short answer: you’ve done nothing yourself to help others – a minimum wage chicken hawk.
    Let me try this from another angle: Since you don’t know anything about the day in and fday out of these companies and their long term finances, maybe you could trell us what gives you the moral and intellectual superiority to dictate what wages these organizations should pay?
    Or to use one of your own arguments, since you feel you’ve done your share by paying your taxes that fund our federal programs and that we’re punishing you for not supporting a higher minimum wage, how fair is it for you to punish us by forcing conservatives to pay unemployment, welfare, etc. to all of the people who can’t get hired because they can’t produce enough value to justify whatever wage you’ve dictated?

  30. 32

    Nanny G

    Good example of how Minimum Wage Chickenhawks affect workers.
    Snarf’s Sandwiches, 600 W. Chicago, was one of several stops during a planned daylong demonstration in the city of Chicago.
    Dozens of protestors stood in front of Snarf’s Sandwiches demanding a $15-an-hour wage and the right to form a union without retaliation.
    That was 3 weeks ago.
    The many part-time workers were each getting $9.50/hour.
    Now they each bring home ZERO.
    Snarf’s Sandwich shop has fired all its employees just days before Christmas.
    The written notice read, in part, ”Due to increased competition and losses, ownership has decided to consider remodeling and reconcepting the store at 600 West Chicago Ave.”

    In other words, $9.50/hour was already more than the shop could pay and get out of the red.

    Dumb minimum wage chickenhawks.

  31. 33

    mossomo

    @Ronald J. Ward:

    Chump change or chump.

    “It’s been studied, tried, and proven that minimum wage increases have not hurt employment.”

    Department of Labor’s own assessment of the first 25-cent minimum wage in 1938 found that it resulted in job losses for 30,000 to 50,000 workers, or 10 to 13 percent of the 300,000 covered workers who previously earned below the new wage floor.

    That fact won’t make any difference to you.

    “And any business that’s made profits have historically bumped up wages along the way.”

    A lecture on inflation would be lost on you. Who in the end pays for ‘bumped up wages’?

    You say I have debunked talking points but didn’t care to debunk them but rathered appealed to authority.

    You can’t explain why $100/hr is disadvantageous while $10 would be advantageous. Calling it nonsense.

    You state that the businesses you mention are doing well. Yet I show they are not doing as well as you think they are. Spin to you.

    You invoke billionaires – all the communists I named died with billions.

    One doesn’t need to be called stupid. I make and can support my arguments. You attack character while I joke on yours.

    “with you as from your own admission, you stalk and troll under different names.”

    Wow. Weak is the logic of this one. I won’t even bother to school you on that fallacy.

    The premise of having already met is that you come from the same cookie cutter that every other progressive has been cut from.

    I think I know you better than you know yourself.

    Have you every bitched about the size gov’t or is your ground-zero Capitalism?

    A very important question. And I know the answer. That’s why I said I’d eat crow if you have. But you never have.

    “I’m forced to subsidize full time employees of billionaires”

    Your philosophy naturally aligns with the communists I mentioned. All you need to do is substitute your “billionaires” with their ‘bourgeoisie’ and it becomes quite apparent.

    Try it out, here’s a Lenin quote.

    Naturally, only the exploiting class, i.e., the bourgeoisie [billionaires]. The working people need the state only to suppress the resistance of the exploiters [billionaires], and only the proletariat can direct this suppression, can carry it out. For the proletariat is the only class that is consistently revolutionary, the only class that can unite all the working and exploited people in the struggle against the bourgeoisie [billionaires].
    – Lenin

    “Mossomo, this is likely to be my last response”

    Good. As it would likely result in more stupid.

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